Preparing for the Future: America’s Community Colleges

Good morning, everyone. It is good to have everyone here in the Labor, Health and Human Services Subcommittee today. And thanks to our witnesses for coming to testify this morning on the topic of community colleges. We will hear from these innovative leaders about how their institutions are preparing students for promising careers and delivering an education that is aligned with workforce needs and at the same time being cost-effective. I look forward to hearing about their efforts to help students succeed and become workforce ready and what we should know as we examine programs in this subcommittee's jurisdiction. The secret is clearly out, and that is the value that community colleges deliver students and the local economy. According to the National Student Clearinghouse, community college enrollment grew 3 percent in the fall of 2025. That is double the 1.4 percent increase at public four-year colleges. Enrollment increased 1.9 percent in certificate programs and by 2.2 percent in associate degree programs. That is faster than the approximately 1 percent increase for the bachelor's program. So it is clear that many students are eager to enter or re-enter the workforce more quickly after getting the necessary skills and training in less time and in less money than the traditional four-year degree. That should not come as any surprise as more Americans are questioning what exactly they are getting from a college degree. A September 2025 Gallup poll found that the share of Americans who view colleges as very important has fallen to 35 percent. And that is down from 75 percent in 2010. A separate NBC News poll this past November found only one-third of Americans think that four-year college degrees is worth the cost, down from about half saying it was worth it in 2017. Now, to be sure, by highlighting the success of community college, we are in no way downplaying the role of four-year institutions. But for many years, the federal approach to higher education made a priority and greater access and enrollment for four-year institutions. And while a four-year degree can bring some great career opportunities and higher lifetime earnings, the experience is far from universal. The federal government invests $131 billion annually in financial aid through loans and grants. Despite this outsized investment, too many students do not see the expected benefits and unfortunately a few end up worse off financially. It is encouraging that leaders at community colleges around the country are focused on programs and strategies to set students up for success. Their institutions offer opportunities to learn and gain experience in high-demand fields, avoiding an expensive degree that is not in demand by industry. Our nation's community colleges serve students in all stages of life: students seeking their high school diploma equivalency, those who graduated high school years ago, those that are working students with children, students which seek to switch career fields, and those looking for specific skills to advance in their existing career. Many students enroll part-time because they do not want or they cannot afford to miss a paycheck in the interim. Community college excels at tailoring their programs to all students, offering a range of programs from stackable credentials to associate's degree and offering flexible course schedules at night and on weekends or sometimes even online. Through dual enrollment programs, community colleges are a connection for our K-12 schools, giving students exposure to college material and career opportunities they may not have known otherwise or known was available to them. Through partnerships with local employers, community colleges integrate hands-on learning, which means students can be immersed in the most up-to-date training standards and equipment. Community colleges offer tremendous value. Average in-district tuition and fees for a public two-year school totaled just over $4,000 in the year 2024 to 2025, nearly $8,000 less than an in-state cost for a public four-year school. Today we will hear from higher education and workforce development leaders about what they are doing to prioritize student success and to respond to the needs in the workforce. These leaders across the country from Browning, Montana, all the way to my home state of Alabama are forward-thinking and responsive to the needs of both students and surrounding industry. Securing strong pipelines of workers into critical fields is a win-win for students and also for employers and also for our economy. Whether it is nursing home, commercial truck drivers, line workers, advanced manufacturing, skilled industry trades, or fields like hospitality and education, our workforce needs are growing. Amid an aging population, we also contend with worker shortages and find new ways to mitigate them. Rural areas, much like the district I represent, feel the pressure of addressing workforce shortages acutely. Today we look forward to hearing about the success of these schools and how they are focused on improving students' outcomes. Before I turn to the ranking member for her remarks, I would like to introduce our first witnesses. First is Dr. Patricia Sims, who is president of J.F. Drake State Community and Technical College in Huntsville, Alabama. And I am going to save the next guest to be introduced, Brad Hall, by one of my colleagues in just a minute. And then also I am pleased that we are going to also hear from Mr. Shawn Morgan, vice president of workforce and strategy initiative at Bevill State Community College located in the district that I represent. And also we have Shalin Jyotishi, founder and managing director of the Future of Work and Innovation Economy Initiative at New America. So glad to have each of you here and look forward to you sharing your expertise with us today. And if I could turn now to, we will go ahead and allow Mr. Zinke from Montana to recognize one of our panelists as well.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And I am honored to recognize and introduce Brad Hall. He is the president of the Blackfeet Community College. And the Blackfeet have been around a long time, some say about 40,000 years, but they are a sovereign nation. And as a sovereign nation, they have unique challenges of that. And I have talked to multiple students that attend the community college, and all of them say the same thing: they finally have a sense of belonging, a sense of accomplishment, and a desire to return the favor and make the Blackfeet Nation stronger. So it is my distinct honor to introduce a champion of tribal community colleges and one that cares, and he is perfect for the job. So, Brad Hall, thank you, and I look forward to your testimony. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Well, let me welcome all of you here today. And now I would like to turn to my ranking member for her opening remarks.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. And to our witnesses, to Dr. Sims, Dr. Hall, Mr. Morgan, Mr. Jyotishi, for making time today to share your valuable, valuable insights with our committee. It is no secret that just about everything in this country is more expensive now: groceries, housing, utilities, Lord knows healthcare. The cost of education is by no means an exception to this trend. We have told a generation of Americans that the surest path out of cyclical poverty, to upward social mobility, financial security, and a better future for our children and their children after them is a college education. But that path has become prohibitively expensive for far too many people. Over the last 30 years, tuition for public four-year college has doubled, and that is after accounting for inflation. For the 2025-2026 academic year, tuition for a four-year public college was $11,950 on average. And that is before housing, textbooks, and other costs. It is no wonder that upon graduation from a public four-year institution, the typical student has accumulated over $27,000 in student debt. I firmly believe that what we have told a generation of Americans remains true: education is the best pathway to success, education is the great equalizer. It is about success, stability, and prosperity. But we as a government, as a society, have not kept up our end of the bargain. The terms of the deal have gotten worse, and it is our responsibility here in this building to do everything that we can to fix it. Fortunately, part of the solution is right here in front of us today. While tuition at public four-year institutions has gone up, two-year public colleges, community colleges, has actually decreased by 10 percent in the past decade after adjusting for inflation. Full-time tuition for community college sits at $4,150 on average, roughly one-third the cost of a four-year public institution. In the fall of 2023, around 6 million students were enrolled in community colleges throughout the country. Many Americans recognize the clear benefits of attending community college. A greater share of community college students work full-time while getting their degree. Many are parenting, caring for their families, and are able to take advantage of the flexibility that community college provides while receiving a high-quality education. I want to hone in on this point specifically for a moment: a high-quality education. There is a persistent and inaccurate notion that persists that a community college education is somehow lesser or inadequate. It is not. In a recent survey of administrators at two-year and four-year colleges alike, roughly three-quarters agree that students who transfer to four-year institutions from community colleges perform as well as or better than students who started at that institution as a freshman. The only thing that is inadequate with regard to community college is our investment in it. Not only financially, although that is crucial, but programmatic and institutional investments, providing new opportunities for students and local businesses, governments, and organizations to avail themselves of their untapped potential. Despite a far greater share of community college students working full-time while they are enrolled, only 1.4 percent receive any federal work-study aid, in stark contrast to the 15 percent of undergraduates at private, nonprofit four-year colleges who do. We must do more to bridge the gap between industries in need of a talented workforce and students eager to contribute their skills to the communities and provide for their families. That is why in my first year as chair of the Labor, HHS, Education Subcommittee, I created the Strengthening Community Colleges Training Grants program. Community colleges are and have always been the best positioned to support local workforce development. What is needed is more action on our part to nurture this mutually beneficial relationship. We must also continue our investments in the Federal Registered Apprenticeships program, which can help community colleges build their capacity to integrate these initiatives with their credit-bearing degree programs. Individuals who complete a registered apprenticeship program earn $200,000 more over the course of their careers compared to workers in the same occupations trained through other means. As appropriators, we have an obligation to ensure the resources are available for these programs to be successful. We will hear from our witnesses today about the importance of federal investments in their success. And they will also share the urgent needs in areas where our subcommittee can support students, workers, and regional economies. Several of our witnesses will also discuss their enthusiasm for Workforce Pell Grants, which will allow students to use Pell Grants for non-credit programs as brief as eight weeks. While I fully expect community colleges to rise to the challenge and craft programs that meet the needs of workers and regional economies, I have also held long-standing concerns about the potential proliferation of low-quality offerings, particularly by the predatory for-profit college sector. The data on very short-term programs are already quite clear. A Brookings Institute study found that 70 percent of graduates from 10-week programs earn less than they would have if they never enrolled in the program in the first place. So as we review how Workforce Pell is implemented, I believe we need to tread carefully. We need to establish strong performance guardrails and prevent predatory online and for-profit companies from taking advantage of job seekers and taxpayers. I am proud that during this appropriations cycle, Democrats were able to push back and prevent many of these programs from being eliminated entirely, which is no mean feat when the current administration is trying to dismantle the Education Department altogether. Trump administration slated many investments in community colleges for elimination, including training grants for adults and youth, WIOA, registered apprenticeship, child care access grants for student parents. In addition, the president's budget proposed cutting the maximum Pell Grant by $1,685, a nearly 25 percent reduction. But proudly, on a bipartisan, bicameral basis, the Congress rejected these proposed cuts and eliminations because, unlike the Trump administration, we recognize the value of community colleges and the federal programs that they rely on. Community colleges generate an incredible value to our society and to our economy. In fact, one out of every 18 jobs in the United States is supported by the activities of community college alumni, and community colleges generate nearly $900 billion in economic activity annually. That's according to a report from the American Association of Community Colleges. This is roughly 4 percent of our national GDP. Community colleges are worth the investment, not just economically and socially, but morally. We have an obligation to support affordable higher education that offers every individual the opportunity to learn, to grow, to succeed, and to thrive. I want to say a thank you again to our witnesses for all the work that you do for making a difference in the lives of your students, and I look forward to hearing your testimony today. I yield back.

Thank you, Ms. DeLauro. We'll now turn to our witnesses. You will each have five minutes to deliver your opening remarks. Note that your submitted written testimony will be included in the full record. So, Dr. Sims, we'll begin with you. Thank you.

Good morning again, Chairman Aderholt, Ranking Member DeLauro, and distinguished members of the subcommittee. I'm Dr. Patricia Sims, President of J.F. Drake State Community and Technical College in Huntsville, Alabama, and thank you for allowing me to speak on behalf of students, families whose futures depend on decisions that you make in rooms like this one. Drake State is a historically black community college, an HBCU, founded in 1961, and for more than six decades, we have been a doorway of opportunity for students who often have nowhere else to turn. Across the Alabama Community College System, HBCUs served nearly 10,000 students last year from rural and urban communities, first-generation homes, and working-class families. And these students are not just statistics. These are young parents balancing child care and coursework. They are veterans re-entering civilian life. They are adult learners returning to school after years in jobs that no longer sustain their families. They're dreamers looking for opportunity. At Drake State, we see those struggles up close, and our average student age is 28 years old, managing bills, family responsibilities, and jobs that do not cover the cost of living. And many of the students that we see are hesitant to pursue further education because they fear taking on more debt. And for this reason, at Drake State, we do not participate in the federal loan program. We're committed to providing students a pathway to a better life without burdening them with long-term financial obligations. That's why our industry-supported earn-and-learn programs are so critical. They do more than just prepare students for the workforce; they restore dignity, confidence, and belief in what's possible in America. Let me share one example. A young man named Andrew walked onto our campus a few semesters ago carrying more than his backpack. He carried two part-time jobs, a young family, and the weight of believing his future was slipping away. Traditional education did not fit his life, but through our CSI, Connecting Students to Industry program, he spent two days a week in class and three days a week working in industry, earning while he was learning. His supervisors mentored him and invested in him, and two years later, Andrew graduated debt-free and accepted a full-time job with stability and pride. And he shared with us, "Drake State didn't just change my future; it changed the way my children look at me." That's the power of targeted federal support. That's the power of our community colleges. That's the power of opening doors for students who simply need an opportunity. Partnerships like CSI, FAME, and our LPN Launch program with Huntsville Hospital, along with support from organizations like Thurgood Marshall College Fund, show what's possible when education and industry work hand in hand. And as I close, I'd like to speak to a few key federal initiatives. First, the Strengthening Community College Training Grant program. This program has had a direct positive impact on my institution and other Alabama community colleges, and it is a prime example of how government strengthens the workforce by supporting local partnerships. Secondly, the new Workforce Pell program. This program will allow institutions like Drake State to expand short-term, high-demand training and be more responsive to our industry partners. We believe that the department is implementing this new authority effectively, and we continue and urge your continued support. For the broader Pell Grant program, we urge you to maintain full funding. The growth in expenditures reflects the bipartisan policy improvements that were enacted under President Trump in 2020, and those changes expanded eligibility and opened the doors for more students in our nation to access these funds. Those commitments were promises to America's learners, and we feel like those promises should be kept. And finally, I want to emphasize the critical importance of Title III and Futures Act funding for historically black community colleges and universities. This institutional support strengthens every corner of my campus. It helps us to break cycles of poverty, improve workforce readiness, grow local and national economic development, and strengthen America's global competitiveness. Members of the subcommittee, thank you for your leadership, and thank you for recognizing that the strength of our nation begins with the strength of its people. So with your continued support, at Drake State, we will continue to do what we've always done: transform lives, one student, one family, and one employer at a time. Thank you for listening and the opportunity to share my comments.

Thank you, Congressman Zinke, for the very kind introduction and your partnership over the years. Chairman Aderholt, Ranking Member DeLauro, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity for me to testify today. Oki. Hello, my name is Brad Hall. I serve as the 11th president of Blackfeet Community College, BFCC, as I'll mention for time, in Browning, Montana. And over its 50-year history, we have served the Blackfeet Nation. BFCC is a tribally controlled land-grant institution rooted in Blackfeet culture and values and stands as a cornerstone of the federal trust responsibility that the U.S. government has to tribes. We provide accessible, high-quality education to students across the Blackfeet Nation and beyond. When it comes to size and impact, we are small, but we are mighty. In the fall, we registered 362 students, a 14 percent increase over the last year. We succeed because we offer a welcoming, supportive environment with a 13-to-one student-faculty ratio and low tuition, just at $3,600 a year for the entire academic year. We also do not serve federal loans, as we do not want to straddle our students with debt as they transition into the workforce or to universities. But access is about more than tuition. 67 percent of our students receive Pell Grants. Many balance work, family, community responsibilities while pursuing their education. That is why we pair financial aid with paid internships, emergency assistance, and strong student supportive services that remove barriers that often prevent completion. Our programs are tightly aligned to the workforce needs of our tribal communities. Our industry trades certificate equips students with essential building trade skills to directly address regional labor shortages, and it's also a key dual enrollment program that we offer at the college. Our nursing program assists in workforce gaps in health care. Our Class 7 teacher certification program helps educators to teach our culture and language in local schools. Our programs in legal studies and anthropology also strengthen governance and natural resource stewardship. Partnerships amplify this work. For example, we've entered into an agreement with both Glacier National Park and Pursuit at the East Glacier Park Lodge, where this summer they will be providing four internships: gardening, engineering, culinary arts, and hotel management. These partnerships are the groundwork for the future of hospitality and tourism programming tied to meaningful careers that we intend on leaning into as a community college. This impact of this work is measurable. Recent economic study by AIHEC found that the fiscal year 22-23, tribal college alumni generated $3.8 billion in economic impact nationwide, the equivalent to supporting over 400,000 jobs. At BFCC alone, our alumni have contributed $15 million to the reservation economy, the equivalent of supporting 391 jobs. That means that every dollar invested in Blackfeet Community College, students gain $5.20 in lifetime earnings, and Montana taxpayers gain $3.5 million in additional tax revenue and in public sector savings. That is not just a good investment; it is a transformational one. The Pell Grant program is foundational. We are grateful to Congress that acted to prevent near-term shortfalls and maintain a maximum award for fiscal year 26. We respectfully ask that we continue the Pell Grant program and avoid eligibility challenges that would restrict access. Also Title III. These are really important because they support everything from scientific equipment to tutoring to the very facilities that we operate under. I also want to stress the importance of the Native American Career and Technical Education program, which supports key specialty areas of our local economy, provides a career center that helps students find employment readiness after graduation. Finally, I want to highlight one urgent opportunity. We need a modern facility for our industry trades program. A new space where specialized stations for carpentry, welding, and others would allow us to expand our current one-year certificate into stackable two-year pathways to additional licensure programs. In closing, thank you for including the tribal colleges among the witnesses at this important hearing. Blackfeet Community College remains committed to working collaboratively with this subcommittee to ensure that tribal nations and citizens have a voice in shaping our education, our workforce, and our future. I look forward to your questions. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Mr. Jyotishi.

Thank you very much. Yes, that's right. Good morning and thank you very much, Chairman Aderholt, Ranking Member DeLauro, and members of the committee for the privilege of speaking with you today about the critical role of community colleges in preparing for our future. My name is Shalin Jyotishi. I am the founder and managing director of the Future of Work and Innovation Economy Initiative at New America, where we advance research and technical assistance to ensure that tech-driven growth translates into economic security for workers and families. Community colleges are critical to that objective. As you know, our community colleges enroll more than 40 percent of all of our undergraduates, and a majority of them come from low-income families. Through industry-aligned workforce programs, from apprenticeships to work-based learning to career and technical education, they provide affordable and accessible pathways into the jobs that power our main street: healthcare, public safety, skilled trades, IT, and beyond. But rapid advances in artificial intelligence and other emerging technologies have meant that today our community colleges are educating for a much more complicated labor market. They're becoming upskilling hubs for adults and entry points for new talent to secure jobs in sunrise industries in advanced tech sectors. AI is one, but biotech, quantum, microelectronics, robotics, and advanced manufacturing. Now, this is critical because more than half of America's STEM workers need some education beyond high school but not necessarily a university degree. Unfortunately, too many colleges are shouldering this training responsibility facing chronic underinvestment. Community colleges receive significantly less public funding per student than four-year counterparts. Now, if we expect our colleges to deliver quality outcomes in our most complex and rapidly changing industries, they need capacity-building investments to purchase the latest equipment, to upskill their own instructors, to level up partnerships with industry, universities, our national labs, and with economic developers. A few years ago, New America partnered with the National Science Foundation to launch the Accelerator for Community Colleges and the Innovation Economy. This is a national capacity-building program that supports colleges in regions experiencing tech-based growth, from North Dakota tribal colleges around smart agriculture to Forsyth Tech in North Carolina around bioeconomy. It's a privately funded initiative, and it's supported by national partners who represent our governors, our mayors, our universities, our economic developers, and yes, our community college sector as a whole. Through the accelerator, we've learned a great deal, and I've shared those insights in my written testimony. Today, the Department of Education and Labor are well-positioned to scale capacity-building supports for colleges to grow these advanced tech sectors and meet bipartisan aims, from expanding economic opportunity to bolstering national security to advancing rural development. As I indicated in my written testimony, specific levers include the Strengthening Community College Training Grants and the Perkins National Activities allocation that could be leveraged for the same. I also encourage deeper collaborations with our federal agencies on the leading edge of R&D and economic development, including the NSF, DARPA, and the Departments of Energy, Commerce, Agriculture, and others. Now, I only had five pages, but I provided details for both the capacity-building priorities and citations of a few programs that could benefit from more interagency coordination. In this moment of rapid technological change, our community college sector is best positioned to ensure that low-income students and working adults alike are not left behind. From red states to blue states, from cities to farmlands, with the right investments and strategies engaging all of the agencies at play, we can unlock even more community college pathways to the future of work and the American dream. Again, I thank you for the opportunity to testify on this critical topic of preparing for our future, and I look forward to answering your questions. Thank you.

Good morning, Chairman Aderholt, Ranking Member DeLauro, and distinguished members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to be here today. It is truly an honor to represent the Alabama Community College System and Bevill State Community College and to speak on a topic that we care very deeply about, which is preparing the future workforce of the United States of America. In Alabama, our community college system includes 24 colleges serving more than 160,000 individuals annually. We contribute over $8 billion to our state's economy every year. But more important than economic numbers is this reality. For thousands of Alabamians, especially in rural communities, community colleges are not just the most affordable option, we are often the only accessible option. At Bevill State Community College, we serve some of the most rural counties in Northwest Alabama, cities such as Jasper and Sumiton, Fayette, Hamilton, and Carrollton. And nearly half the population in our service area live in rural communities. And yet, despite that geography, and maybe even perhaps because of it, we are delivering results. And these results are not accidental. They are the product of alignment. Alignment with industry, alignment with workforce demand, and alignment with the realities of working adults. Nationally, we know that more than a million trade jobs remain unfilled. In rural America, that shortage can feel even more urgent. Retirements are outplacing, I'm sorry, outpacing replacements. Generational skill transfer is absolutely at risk. So at Bevill State, we focus on speed, quality, and flexibility. We offer short-term, industry-recognized credentials in welding, industrial maintenance, construction trades, CDL, HVAC fast-track programs that move students from enrollment to employment in a matter of weeks, not years. Students can enter quickly, earn wages quickly, stack credentials over time that can lead to higher degrees. That is the community college model at its best. We are also building the next generation pipeline through dual enrollment. Across Alabama, more than 40,000 high school students are earning college credit while still in high school. That's a 230 percent increase since 2015. Just at Bevill State, our dual enrollment has grown more than 130 percent in just the last four years. In rural counties where opportunity may appear limited, dual enrollment can change trajectories. It allows students to see themselves as college students or even as future skilled professionals earlier than ever before. And now, I believe that we stand in a transformational moment. The forthcoming Workforce Pell Grant has the potential to remove one of the greatest barriers facing working adults, which is access to financial aid for short-term, high-quality workforce programs. At Bevill State, Workforce Pell could immediately expand access to CDL, HVAC fast-track, welding, lineworker training, healthcare technical certificates, programs that are already often eight to 15 weeks long. For rural communities, that's just not tuition assistance. That's economic survival. That means helping us stabilize our hospitals. It means expanding energy infrastructure, strengthening manufacturing, and it means putting individuals into family-sustaining wages very quickly. In addition, we are leading the development of the Alabama Energy Infrastructure Training Center and Network. This is a multi-campus initiative that will train lineworkers, fiber technicians, solar and microgrid installers, EV maintenance technicians, HVAC professionals, and weatherization professionals. We're also leveraging additional 50,000 square feet of new training space to create a regional workforce hub focused on high-wage, high-demand jobs partnered with industries that are directly tied to national resilience. When we train local residents for high-skilled infrastructure careers, we strengthen both the rural economy and our national competitiveness. Community colleges are uniquely agile. When employers ask us, can you provide the talent, we must be able to say yes, but not in years, but in months. At Bevill State, agility means rapid curriculum development, employer-informed equipment investments, stackable credentials, and flexible schedules. Community colleges are the conduit between federal investment and local impact. We translate policy into jobs filled, wages increased, industry stabilized, community strengthened. America's community colleges are not simply preparing students for the future, we are preparing the future workforce itself. So on behalf of Bevill State Community College and the Alabama Community College System, thank you all for your continued support and for recognizing the essential role community colleges play in America's economic competitiveness. We stand ready to partner with you, to partner with Congress, to maximize every opportunity, strengthen rural America, and secure our nation's talent pipeline for generations to come. Thank you so much. I look forward to your questions.

Thank you, Mr. Morgan, and all of you. Appreciate your testimony. I'll begin our Q&A and like to begin with Dr. Sims. You talked about in your testimony about your aim is to prepare students for careers without additional burden of debt. How has this conviction and decision as an institution to participate in grants and scholarships and not loans led you to set up these creative partnerships with employers to offer cost-effective programs that benefit both the students and the employers?

Thank you for your question, Mr. Chairman. In coming to Drake State, and there's a lot of rapid growth in the Huntsville area. And again, the students that we serve are often non-traditional students, adult-age learner. And what we keep hearing is that these are the folks that are in that have not been able to advance their position in work. And so we've been really, really critical in and intentional about partnering with industry when they come to a need, align directly aligning training with the request of industry. And that gives our industry partners a level of comfort in investing in the students. And what we also find is that our industries are tired of recruiting. So when we are investing in people who live in the area, who've committed, who love the area, and who are simply looking for an opportunity to upskill, that offers confidence in the work that we're delivering. And so through the Alabama Community College System, our system of colleges, we're very proud of the work that we've been able to be responsive, rapidly responsive to the needs of industry. And so we found that with these partnerships, we can find new and creative ways to not further burden students with debt. And so industry and most of these look like earn and learn programs. These are individuals who have to work because they do have responsibilities, but they can learn as well. And so industry has come to the table. And so we've been so proud of those partnerships, including our FAME partnerships. So and industry has an opportunity to see the students, to train them and acclimate them into their culture early on. And so that what that means is that what we can deliver is a ready-to-work employee, not a person that has to be onboarded and retrained, ready to work. And so we have found great success, and I'm really proud of the work that we've been able to do in helping our students improve the quality of their lives and meeting the needs of employers. And that's what we feel like our role is as community colleges.

Thank you. Let me turn to you, Mr. Morgan. I think in your testimony you rightly said that rural communities can face challenges in addressing workforce needs, from nursing to manufacturing. Our economic growth depends in large part on having enough qualified workers. Can you tell us about more about Bevill State's efforts to address the rural workforce needs and in particular what successes have you seen in terms of attracting and then retaining students in the local workforce and economy after they graduate?

Thank you for the question, Mr. Chairman. You know, so because give you an idea of our just the scope of our footprint at Bevill State, we our footprint encompasses 4,600 square miles. It's massive. So immediately there's a challenge, right, which is access. And access is everything. And so to make our our potential students aware of what is available is a challenge. We've got to make sure that we're we're in the we're in the high schools, we're marketing, we're championing what we do to allow them to see what is available because within our four campuses and our instructional site, we're within pretty good driving distance for anyone that can get there. And because we can have flexible schedules, we can do that in the evening, on the weekends, online like you said earlier, we can make that available to them. So what we're doing to address the rural workforce is to make sure number one that we are building any program not out of theory but out of jobs being hired, right? We don't want to just because of a buzzword of something that sounds good, if employers are hiring, we want to make sure that we're addressing that workforce need and making sure that we're connecting those students to that industry either through job shadowing, through possibly internships, whatever it may be to let them know that locally, so we can help to retain them, there's opportunity for them. Give them hope to think that there's not something that they're going to have to move away for or they're going to have to look outside of where they've grown up, that there's opportunity locally. And we do that by aligning with industry, building programs that align with employer demand. And so we've got to make that training accessible and we've got to provide flexible schedules by offering short-term credentials. Let's get them a short-term credential, get them employed and allow that credential to be stackable so if they want to come back for upskill they can, but let's get them in the workforce. And if we can do that, we can help retain them because we're getting them in there early.

Okay. My time is slips away, but let me just ask you quickly, you talk about the you've got you've got a big coverage area that the campus covers or the the college covers. What would be approximately the the most that a student would have to drive in order to reach?

I would say 45 minutes, Mr. Chairman.

Okay. Thank you. Ms. DeLauro.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Just a couple of things before I ask the questions. With regard to Dr. Sims, HBCUs in the budget got a very small increase of $5 million. Title III all got an increase of $2 million. The Native American tech program is part of Perkins. I might just say, this can't be deducted from my time, today is the anniversary of Frances Perkins being sworn in as the first woman cabinet member for Franklin Roosevelt. It's a great day. She is a hero. She really is to many of us. The strengthening the community college training grants has been flat funded and the Perkins grants have been flat funded. So I just mention those things because each of you has reflected on the importance of these things. And Mr. Jyotishi, what is the federal role in supporting community colleges? We provide student financial assistance, Pell, Federal Work-Study, we fund formula grants, Perkins, career and technical, adult, WIOA training, competitive grants, apprenticeship, strengthening community college training grants. What are, in your view, the most effective federal levels for supporting community colleges?

Thank you very much for the question, Representative DeLauro. I would say that the optimal role of the federal government is to support the infrastructure for institutions such that they can deliver high-quality short-term training, such that they can deliver quality degree programs, such that they can expand apprenticeship opportunities, such that they can form these industry partnerships and partnerships with K-12 schools for career and technical education. All of these activities are incumbent on institutions having the resources they need. Again, our universities are immensely valuable assets to this country. It's why the America became a global power in the 20th century, but there hasn't been a commensurate focus on supporting our community colleges in the same way. I would love to see the Strengthening Community College Training Grants program really be expanded to support capacity building of institutions around high-effective practices. You know, the National Science Foundation has the Advanced Technological Education program and they have pioneered this BILT model, Business Industry Leadership Teams, which is a highly sophisticated way of working with industry partners in STEM sectors. In a traditional advisory committee, industry partners might meet quarterly. With a BILT model, they're voting on each individual knowledge, skill, and ability from a 12 to 36-month time horizon. They're working with local hiring managers. Strengthening Community College Training Grants and other programs within the Ed and Labor Departments' purview could really scale that practice across our more than 900 community colleges across this country.

I want to pose this question to everyone, but I'll wait until later on. Each of you has talked about a quality education. I don't know what your metrics are for success of what is a quality education. What are the evaluations with regard to that? What are the oversight mechanisms for you to make a determination as to whether or not a program is successful, not successful, that it is not providing the individual with the kinds of quality that you're talking about or the ability to be able to survive economically because of this? So I'm going to get to that if the Chairman will allow me afterward. But my question to you, Dr. Hall, is you highlight Pell, again the strengthening of tribal colleges funding, Perkins. Talk to me a little bit about WIOA, the Workforce Innovation and Opportunity Act, and its ability to prepare students for the job opportunities in your region. Keeping in mind that WIOA was going to be eliminated, I want to hear from you about WIOA.

Thank you for the question. WIOA is a program that supports a lot of Native American people in our state. It's also one of the only opportunities that people coming out of incarceration, coming out of treatment, people that are among the most vulnerable in our population actually benefit from those programs. Our college doesn't currently have a WIOA program, but the Blackfeet Manpower program does operate a WIOA program and it provides people with opportunities not just for employment but for training. And also eliminates, as we have done as a community college, the barriers. We look at barriers as one of those things that we look at in order to eliminate in order for that student and their family to have access to higher wages and opportunities for upward mobility. And a lot of times those can be found on the reservation through programs like WIOA because there's partners with the Blackfeet Manpower program that support that just like the college.

Okay. So we look for your loud and clear voice as we try to proceed to make sure that we can not only maintain WIOA but increase the funding for programs like WIOA and some of the others we've talked about. And I would just say I'm going to get to my other question I guess toward the end. I'd love to have you think about it. I think since this is an Appropriations Committee, we spend money on these programs. It is important for us to know what how you define the metrics of success and define that quality education program and what are the consequences to the benefit of the youngsters or the and they're not youngsters, your folks are average ages older and who have families, etc. How are we making life different for them? Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

Mr. Simpson.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let me get my windsock back on. Ah. Thank you. Thank you all for being here. If there's one word I could put to your testimony, it's called passion. You all seem very passionate about community colleges and the job that you do and you're right, they're an essential part of the education system in this country. We talked mostly about preparing people for jobs and stuff. You do more than that though, you prepare students for further education beyond just the community college, right? I'm going to ask a couple questions of Dr. Hall and they might seem a little bit off subject, but they're not really. And the reason I ask this is I chair the Interior Subcommittee that funds the BIE, the BIA, the Indian Health Services, Indian Justice, all of those types of things. One of the things I've been concerned about as I travel around this country and meet with tribes all over the country and a lot of these reservations are in remote areas and stuff, trying to get doctors, dentists, nurses to go to a hospital on a reservation or a clinic or whatever. How do we get those people back there? How many community colleges are there, tribal community colleges?

There's approximately 36 accredited institutions, yes.

36? Yes. And I've always believed that the way you're going to do it, and the reason that being a dentist in a previous life, one of the I know what debt you get when you get out of dental school and stuff. Going to work on a reservation for Public Health Services or whatever, you're not going to make enough money to pay off your student loans, frankly. And so it's hard to get people out there on the reservation to do these to do these jobs. And I've always believed that the way you're going to solve this problem ultimately is to get tribal members and send them to nursing school, to dental school, to medical school, whatever, because they're more likely to return to their tribe and help their tribes out. Is that an accurate assessment, do you think?

We call it grow our own. And growing your own workforce requires an investment in them to stay in the community, but they need opportunity to garner that education while in the community. So we've leveraged a lot of online learning partnerships with partner institutions. University of Montana Western is one of those elementary education teachers. We've flooded the market locally in schools with over 100 new teachers over the last seven years. There's been a lot of really important leaning into some of the lessons we learned over the pandemic and leaning into that online learning apparatus has been really successful in giving them the access that they need to perform those duties in the schools. We also have a hybridized nursing program to the point about how far do you go to go to school. We have a nursing student that comes from Cascade, Montana, 120 miles away from Browning. And the hybridized program works because she can attend the, you know, attend to her duties at home with her family and with her employment there, but she can also be in our campus at clinical sites around the state and looking and working in our skills lab. And so in order to do all of that, we need the capabilities which we do have. And through those capabilities, we're also looking at growing our own trades professionals with an aging workforce, but we also find value in those aging professionals being a part of that as mentors, as people in the community that can instill some of those values, the work ethic, and the skills that those individuals need to perform well and make livable wages so that their families can be successful.

And growing your own workforce requires an investment in them to stay in the community, but they need opportunity to garner that education while in the community. So we've leveraged a lot of online learning partnerships with partner institutions. University of Montana Western is one of those elementary education teachers. We've flooded the market locally in schools with over 100 new teachers over the last seven years. There's been a lot of really important leaning into some of the lessons we learned over the pandemic and leaning into that online learning apparatus has been really successful in giving them the access that they need to perform those duties in the schools. We also have a hybridized nursing program to the point about how far do you go to go to school. We have a nursing student that comes from Cascade, Montana, 120 miles away from Browning. And the hybridized program works because she can attend the you know attend her duties at home with her family and with her employment there, but she can also be in our campus at clinical sites around the state and looking and working in our skills lab. And so in order to do all of that, we need the capabilities which we do have. And through those capabilities, we're also looking at growing our own trades professionals as an aging workforce, but we also find value in those aging professionals being a part of that as mentors, as people in the community that can instill some of those values, the work ethic, and the skills that those individuals need to perform well and make livable wages so that their families can be successful. Well, thank you. And thank you for all that you do, that all of you do. It's very important. I'll be up to Montana this summer to visit with you and talk about how we can advance this and stuff because it's very important if we're going to address the long-term needs on reservations and stuff. But you know, the old days of being able to, and you all know this, the old days of having a job, going to work, getting a pension, and working there for 40 years and retiring are gone anymore. And I've always wondered, how is someone in Salmon, Idaho, a town of about 2,000 that is a long ways from anywhere, somebody retires or they lose their job and they need upgraded skills, how are they going to get those? They've got a spouse, three kids, and a mortgage. They can't just pick up and go to ISU or to Boise State or, you know, to one of our four-year institutions. And you guys are filling that role that these people need. And so I appreciate everything that you do and thank you for being here today and look forward to working with you to solve some of these challenges that we're going to face in the future. Thank you.

Mr. Moolenaar. Mr. Hoyer.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for having this hearing. I think one thing I think I can speak for all the committee, we all believe community colleges are critically important. I have an agenda that I've articulated since 2010 called Make It In America. It comes from the popularity of Made In America, that we make things here. I suggest we change that to Make It In America because what Made In America is what we did yesterday. Make It In America has two meanings. Number one, you produce this bottle. But number two, you succeed. And you succeed because you have skill, knowledge that you need to be competitive and job-worthy. So I'm just going to ask you one question, I want each one of you to answer it, and I should have asked it a week ago so you had time to think about it. We cut community college funding in half in the House of Representatives in the bill we sent to the Senate. We cut $1.8 billion out of a $3.8 billion budget for fiscal year 25. I am interested in knowing, and I think the committee needs to know, if we had in fact passed the House bill and it became law and we cut $1.882 billion from a $3.896 billion budget, essentially perhaps not each one of the institutions cutting them in half, but cutting the resources available across the board in half, what impact would that have had on your ability to make sure that people can make it in America? Start with you, Dr. Sims, and just go right down the line.

Absolutely. Thank you, thank you for that question. In the state of Alabama, one of the things that we're really struggling with is a non-participation rate, right, of the number of employees, people who should be working who are not. And why aren't they working? They're not working because of barriers such as childcare, transportation, just basic barriers or not being able to find, have the time to upskill to access a job, the training that's required for a job for a livable wage. And so the support, the non-traditional students, the students that we serve requires a different level of support. It's not a traditional high school student that can just go on a pathway. We have to consider, they are usually one car breaking down, one child sick missing class from stopping out, right? And so the, in addition to the infrastructure that we need to, that we discussed already to be responsive to industry as it changes so rapidly, we've got to have resources to hire, to retain the talent to train the individuals that need to work. We can't compete with the industry salaries that we're surrounded with. So we have to find creative partnerships with industry to do that. Then we have to then support the students. So we really are, we are the liaison to plugging and meeting all of those needs. And so the impact of faculty, student support, and infrastructure, all the things and professional development, all those things that we need to deliver, that is all those areas are impacted, which is every corner of my campus.

Would have been undermined. Dr. Hall.

Well, let me first start by saying that tribal colleges and universities do not get community college funding. That's an act of the Native American Affairs Committee. I will say, turn your mic on. Oh, I'm sorry. Over the last year, it's been very difficult because as a predominantly federally funded institution, it is hard to plan when we have uncertainty. It's also very important to note that these delays in federal funding harm jobs of people that serve our students. They even harm students' investment in our college and their coming to our college as wanting to get ahead in life. As small rural institutions where access is pretty much the only place where they can within 200 square miles, these temporary instabilities that have been caused are really, really important and they do have had impact on retention and they've also really hindered in some cases student confidence in our institutions. Am I going to have a program to go to if funding doesn't come through? Am I going to have a job if I'm a faculty or student support staff member who's not going to, who makes that their career and their life? These are the things that we have stressed over the last year, and this year's really been tough for tribal colleges specifically because we do not get that additional support. And I must say we are also chronically underfunded in multiple many, many areas. One-time funding from Title III is just that, it's one-time funding. And although we were grateful to receive that and it is at work, we really would like to see that in a more consistent basis and that the predominantly most of our, a lot of our funds are forward-funded, but as we are weighing the scales here and trying to determine what the future of our college looks like, we're very hopeful that Workforce Pell will give us a lot of jet fuel to fuel these workforce programs. But the uncertainty and somewhat the instability in decision-making about how our colleges are funded, we have to be at the forefront with our colleagues to make sure that we are also represented. Thank you.

Thank you for the question, Representative Hoyer. I think it would be critical, critically detrimental to the opportunities that colleges provide students and workers if their funding were to be cut. The Make It In America to me really resonates from the standpoint of expanding access to economic opportunity but ultimately security. And our community colleges are really unique because 47.5 percent of us work for small and medium-sized businesses in this country. And community colleges, as I mentioned in my opening remarks, they serve Main Street. They serve the industry partners that power our communities. Without that funding that keeps that infrastructure in place, there's not an ability to deliver on their promise. Now, I will say, you know, there's also something to be underscored here around the underserved populations that community colleges help uplift as well. Student parents, veterans, returning adults who are coming back from career pivots or needing some upskilling, including in light of changes to the labor market due to AI, that's going to increase in the coming years. I was just in Miami for the National Applied AI Consortium meeting. It was hosted at Miami Dade College in partnership with Houston Community College and Maricopa Community College District in Arizona. We had 400 community college leaders who had come together to learn about how they build their capacity to respond to the AI moment that we're facing in many parts of this country. So I think it would be critical if those resources were to be lost for these institutions.

If you could briefly, just where time's running out, but if you could just briefly answer and then we'll go on.

Yes, Mr. Chairman. I sit here thinking about it, it is not a wonderful thought at all. I'm thinking, where on earth would we cut? We're stretching everything as thin as we possibly can. We're going out to industry asking for assistance, asking for equipment donations. The equipment to train our students is extremely expensive. And if we have these cuts, there is a regional metric that we talk about all the time with Dr. Hagood, our president, which is for every five individuals leaving the workforce, we have two skilled people to replace them. How could we make that change if we had those funding cuts? I don't know how we'd do it. Thank you.

Mr. Clyde.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you to our witnesses for appearing in our subcommittee today. I am a huge fan of community and technical colleges, I want you to know that right up front. I believe community colleges are on the front lines of preparing America's workforce. If we're serious about an America First agenda, we must ensure that any federal investment in education actually prepares Americans for good-paying jobs that strengthen our economy and our national security. Indeed, community colleges across the country are delivering tangible results. We see models rooted in local control, employer alignment, and measurable return on investment. These colleges are not chasing ideological trends and squandering taxpayer dollars. Instead, they are training nurses, welders, line workers, CDL drivers, and skilled technicians, the very backbone of our national economy. I'd like to recognize one such institution in my own backyard, Lanier Technical College in Gainesville, Georgia. Lanier Tech exemplifies exactly what community colleges can and should be, a direct pipeline from classroom to career for students across Northeast Georgia. And I want to congratulate Lanier Tech's president, Tim McDonald, on a remarkable milestone, the establishment of a $1 million privately funded scholarship created in his honor, a testament to the impact that he has had on students and the broader community that he has served so well. At the same time that we are seeing incredible ROI from community colleges, for decades federal higher education spending in four-year institutions has grown dramatically, saddling students with debt and degrees that do not necessarily translate into jobs. Taxpayers deserve to know that every dollar appropriated strengthens workforce participation, supports high-demand industries, and enhances American self-reliance, not bureaucracy. So we must focus on what works: state-led initiatives, strong partnerships with employers, flexible pathways like short-term credentials and apprenticeships, and accountability tied to tangible results such as employment rates, wage gains, and filling critical labor shortages in trades, healthcare, manufacturing, and energy. Dr. Hall and Dr. Sims both, before we get into the importance of community colleges, I want to ask you something directly relevant to the work that Blackfeet Community College does in serving its students. If you were not aware, in the Justice Department appropriation, there is a carve-out in the Violence Against Women Act campus grant program that reserves half of the $25 million of available funding specifically for HBCUs and tribal colleges like yours. And the amendment actually says $25 million is for grants to reduce violent crimes against women on campus as authorized, of which $12.5 million is for grants to historically black colleges and universities, Hispanic-serving institutions, and tribal colleges and universities. So if half of the funding is set aside for less than five percent of all colleges, then someone seems to think that there is a violence against women issue at these specific types of colleges and universities. So my question to you is, are you seeing a significant increase in violence against women on your campuses? Is that something that, I mean, when you talk to presidents of other colleges like yours, is that something that you're seeing? I'm not seeing that in the news, but I'm just, I mean, you would know better than me. I mean, would, are you seeing anything like that?

Based on our Clery data, there is no, nothing in the last three years that I've been president. However, we live in a community that often deals with those matters, those issues. And oftentimes those funnel in to those experiences of those students. Sometimes that lead, those types of things lead to them not continuing on with their education. On the programmatic side, I know that there is a large need for more law enforcement training, nurse training, especially with sexual assaults are concerned, but also community awareness about how to respond to things like human trafficking and other matters.

Dr. Sims, are you seeing a large increase in violence against women on your campus?

I have a similar story that we don't see that, that does not happen on our campus, but we get the residuals of that. Those are the students that they experience those, they have those experiences at home and so they bring that with them to the campus. And so we do have to support them if they're going to continue their education. So it's not a direct impact, but we have to address it.

Well, thank you. I appreciate that. Dr. Sims, you made it clear that expanding debt-free technical education is central to changing the economic trajectory of your students, many of whom are working adults. From your experience at Drake State Community and Technical College, how can we better incentivize industry partnerships that help cover tuition costs or provide paid work-based learning opportunities so students can complete workforce programs without taking on any additional debt? Specifically federal debt, although you said that you really don't offer federal debt, correct?

No, we do not participate in the federal loan program. And again, we've been able to structure partnerships and so your support in continuing the Strengthening Community College programs, your workforce Pell could be tremendous, it could be transformational in providing the access that's needed. And the metrics that are being set forth whereby workforce Pell, the programs have to align directly with industry need, I mean, should earn the confidence of industry partners and of the public that we're doing the work and we are directly aligning the programs that we're offering with placement. I heard someone mention what does success look like? It looks like students in jobs, earning wages, not jobs, on career paths where they can continue to grow, continue to learn and earn. And so that's where we land with the funding. If we continue to support Pell Grant, workforce Pell, fund Pell, because that access is critical for the students that we serve. That's the only way many of the students that we serve will have access to an education. And so, and it is unfair to add additional debt when they've already had that experience and it has not turned out well for them and their families.

Well, thank you. I agree that additional debt is not something that we want to see them have. So thank you. I yield back.

Ms. Frankel.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Pocan. And thank you all for being here. I live in Palm Beach County. We have a fantastic state college, Palm Beach State College. Ava Parker is a really extraordinary leader. I've done a lot of projects with that college. I have two questions. I'm going to ask them both at the same time. If you feel comfortable, you don't have to answer both. But my first question is going to be if AI and quantum technologies are driving the future economy, how do we make sure that community colleges are equipped to train the workforce at scale and what federal investment would move the needle fastest? That's going to be my first question. My second question is in my county, there is a lot of building of new hospitals. And that's the bricks and the mortars. What I am concerned about and like to know from you is what is a quality team that a hospital needs, the different professions, and what kind of programs can the community colleges provide to make sure that that workforce is available? Who wants to start?

I can address the first question possibly. You know, AI is something that certainly is concerning, right? And so when we're recruiting students, whether or non-traditional students and over the past and as we've pushed people to get a four-year degree and no matter what it's in, that's going to be their path forward. However, the truth is AI is coming for those people. We've been telling everybody for 20 years to learn the code. AI is coming for the coders. What we're trying to make aware to our students, high school and otherwise, AI is not coming for the welders. They're not coming for the steamfitters, the pipefitters, the electricians, the plumbers, they're not coming for those. So if and if we look at wages and the demand for these jobs, I mean, you can it's hard to tell a 20-year-old that's building ships and submarines down in Mobile, Alabama that's making right at six figures that that's not meaningful to them. And so I think what we need to do and what we're going to continue to do is educate, make aware these opportunities are available and be much aware of what AI could possibly take away from you because we're seeing that every single day. And it's I think that's certainly something we're going to continue with.

Could someone answer the question in terms of what we can do to train people to be ready to use AI and quantum?

Absolutely. Thank you very much for the question, Representative Frankel. You know, I think this would be an imperative for the Department of Education and the Department of Labor's Perkins program, the Strengthening Community College training grants. And then I'd also add into the mix increased focus on the employer skills training fund and how the employer strategies can connect back to the community colleges. I was heartened to see a focus in the recent solicitation from the Department of Labor around meeting AI labor market needs in particular for that program. You know, I mentioned I was recently in Miami for the National Applied AI Consortium. This is a community by community colleges for community colleges that has really generated some best practices in building out the capacity for community colleges to respond to the AI moment. They support upskilling of instructors, they support curricula development. I had put together the industry session with OpenAI, Google, Microsoft, and Intel, who have all committed financial resources to the community college sector around AI workforce development. Community colleges are going to be the vehicle we need in this country to help people not get left behind. There's the upskilling opportunity for incumbent workers and there's the opportunity to help students who are entering the workforce for the first time. I had spoken with Jasmine Dora, a graduate of Miami Dade College's AI program, who was in the very first crop of graduates from Miami Dade's AI programs and, you know, the stories that she shared about what the community college program afforded her and students like her was really inspiring to hear. In terms of other specific ideas, you know, I mentioned in my testimony that interagency collaborations are an opportunity for appropriators to strengthen links across the government. I point to the Department of Energy's Genesis mission. I had met with a delegation of community colleges to think about how community colleges fit into the Genesis mission at Energy. The National Science Foundation's Technology, Innovation and Partnerships Directorate has been doing a lot of outstanding work on AI R&D and innovation programs. We have the Commerce Department and all of the work they're doing there with NIST. So, I would encourage more interagency collaborations. That means joint solicitations, technical assistance coordination, as well as strategy coordination across the gamut.

All right. Thank you. Two very interesting answers, but thank you both. Both valuable. I'll have to get the other question answered another time, but thank you so much for very much. I yield back.

Mr. Pocan. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thanks to our witnesses. Pell Grants have been a lifeline for students working to earn a college degree for lower-income students like I was because I got Pell Grants when I went to college. It provides financial support for essential college costs including books and equipment, obviously tuition, other necessary supplies. At public two-year institutions, Pell can cover substantial amount of expenses and studies have shown that government recoups the cost of Pell Grants in only 10 years because recipients graduate, earn higher wages, pay more taxes and rely less on services. Given the increased Pell uptake due to the FAFSA completion, there's projected to be a Pell shortfall. And I know it's $5 billion this year and I was just talking to someone mentioned it might be $12 billion in the upcoming year. I have a bill with Education and Workforce Ranking Member Bobby Scott that would expand Pell Grants. But given that shortfall, two questions and I think, you know, Dr. Hall, you wrote in your remarks and brought up Pell and also like to hear from Dr. Sims and Mr. Morgan just with the institutions here. Could you share the importance of Pell Grants to your students specifically, how it helps to your institution when they have those dollars? And secondly, what would happen if we don't have some kind of way to make up for that shortfall in Pell Grants? So, Dr. Hall.

Well, I also commented that without the Pell, a lot of our students would not have basic access to a higher education, to workforce training, to even getting in the door of our college. You know, we are it's a high representative number, you know, 67 percent of our students get that. Now, generationally, that is also an issue because if you get an education and you then have children, they don't qualify for the same level of access that you do. But doesn't mean they don't make any more money. Doesn't mean that they're filthy rich from the opportunities that have been afforded to them. What it means is that oftentimes the cost of education defeats the purpose of pursuing one. And so that's why we at Blackfeet Community College subsidize and don't offer loans and don't provide these additional burdens on students because we know that that's going to be the difference between them completing and getting a job and them not completing and not getting a job in an area that is in high need in our community. As far as when we issue Pell Grants to students, it allows them to also cover living expenses because they normally if you're a full-time student, you're not working full-time. You're not making that full wage. Every little bit helps to allow them to be forward. On top of Pell Grants, we offer emergency aid. That comes in really good, especially when that car breaks down or you have a laptop malfunction and it doesn't work. Those are the kind of things that we try and use to keep students going. And those little things really do help in persistence and they also help in that student having the confidence that they can learn in a classroom, that they have the tools that they can learn. And as we're looking at things like AI, you know, I'm in favor of us expanding on that. It's a good tool for instruction. It also is increasing productivity, not just in students, but employees, faculty, saving time. But I really feel like things like the Pell Grant also have a huge impact on students with disabilities or who are differently abled. And those are highly represented in our community as well. So overall, the Pell Grant is very important for us, our students, and our longevity of education in our community.

Thank you. Dr. Sims.

We have a very similar story. It concerns me greatly to think that we would not be able to serve students and my students would not have access to Pell Grant. We, and the interesting thing is for some, we've even looked at how it impacts our community because at one of our local high schools with over a 90 percent eligibility rate, there were about 200 applications. Some students still, people, there are people who still don't know that Pell Grants are available. And so the education piece that you mentioned, that's critically important to informing students about the opportunity because simply we need them in the workforce. We need them trained. I'm convinced that we have the talent and so the challenge is to give that talent access to the appropriate training and put them in the workforce. And so we work really hard to supplement Pell Grants. We've set up a foundation during my tenure and we raise money for scholarships and we call them gap scholarships to ensure that a student does not have to stop out because they can't pay whatever's left after the Pell Grant. Because honestly, with the cost again, our students, it costs more, so there are additional costs associated with their attending. And we too, as far as AI, we train, we encourage AI-proof programs. For a plumber, HVAC person, you've got to have a body to show up. So our students know that, but for our students who are in programs like healthcare programs who can be impacted by AI, it's important that we have the technology and the infrastructure to introduce them to those changes that are coming so that they'll be prepared.

Yeah, thank you. And my time is up, Mr. Morgan, so but I appreciate it. Yeah, thank you. And my time is up, Mr. Morgan, so but I appreciate you being here as well. Thank you.

Ms. Dean.

Thank you, Chairman, and I thank you for holding this important hearing. I have to tell you, Chairman and our witnesses, I'm a former professor. I taught for 10 years at a school in Philadelphia. I was a professor of writing, rhetoric, and ethics. So I share your passion for educating young people and sometimes not so young people. I also am a partial product of community colleges. I was able to take community college courses in my Montgomery County area when I was younger and I benefited greatly from that. So a shout out to Montgomery County Community College in my area and also Reading Area Community College, two excellent places of getting education. In a previous Congress, I was proud to introduce America's College Promise alongside Mike Levin. That legislation would have made community college tuition-free for students nationwide, helping to remove these barriers we're talking about in terms of cost. And Dr. Hall, what you just said with such clarity, I'm going to see if I can find it. What you just said with such clarity, you said often the cost of education defeats the purpose of getting one. It couldn't be said much more clearly than that. I'm thinking about the Pell Grants and you just began to answer through Representative Pocan's questions about Pell Grants. They've been capped, if I have it right, at 7,395 since the 23-24 cycle, despite inflation, despite rising costs of living and all that our students are struggling with. So in addition to what you were all talking about, and Mr. Morgan, maybe you didn't have a chance to speak to this issue of Pell Grants and the meaning of them, how would increasing the maximum Pell Grant work for your students? What opportunities would that open up in addition to just making sure more and more of our students know about them? So maybe I'll start on this side, Mr. Morgan, since you, we ran out of time before.

Thank you for the question. As I mentioned earlier with our vast footprint that we have of 4,600 square miles within that large radius, over 70 percent of our citizens are Pell eligible. That is a massive amount of individuals that are eligible. It kind of tells you the need that we have in Northwest Rural Alabama. If we extended or increased the Pell, I mean, that takes care of tuition, which is great. But the other barriers, transportation, childcare, other unknown expenses that are inevitable, right? It's going to happen. That could help with some of those things as well as they are progressing through for their credential or their degree or what have you. So I think it's incredibly important that if we can get more and there's additional funding, that's going to just increase more opportunity and take less of the stress away from that individual. Because so many folks that are on Pell that are in our classrooms, they're working, it could be full-time, they've got more than one job, they have children, there's so much responsibility. If we can help alleviate any more of that stress and make that pathway a little bit clearer and easier, the better for that student.

I saw that with my own students and I'm out of the classroom now 12, 13 years. But I saw that same juggle, that same unaffordability. Dr. Sims.

I completely agree. I think we can also see increases in student performance based on having some of those barriers addressed. And we know that that increases persistence so students can continue their education without having to stop out every other semester to catch up, which in turn increases our retention as well as our graduation rates. And so all of those reduced barriers and on my campus, 83 percent of my students are Pell eligible and participate in the program, so it has a significant impact on my student population.

And I just wanted to give a chance, Mr. Jyotishi. We have in my district, Johnson & Johnson is putting up a new manufacturing high-tech manufacturing facility providing more than 500 biotech jobs. So I'm wondering in terms of the work that you are doing and that your group is doing, what role does community colleges play in preparing the workforce for that kind of high-tech pharmaceutical manufacturing?

Thank you very much for the question, Representative Dean. I would say a critical role. Community colleges play a really important component in our bioeconomy. We've seen the expansion of biotech programs at the degree level and the non-degree level in more than half of U.S. states. Community colleges actually are starting to offer applied four-year degrees, baccalaureates, community college baccalaureates to meet the bioeconomy need. I had a really fascinating exchange with Genentech in San Diego and their collaborations with MiraCosta College to create one of the very first CCBs in this country to meet biotech needs. And what Genentech told me, I believe I cited this in my written testimony, is that community colleges are an optimal partner for workforce training for the biotech space because they're willing to flex, they're willing to work with industry partners, and they're willing to collaborate in ways that four-years sometimes struggle to do. And I thought that was just really inspiring and I would imagine that expanded resources would lead to more stories just like that at the non-degree and degree level.

Agree. And thank you, Dr. Hall, for your great clarity. And as an appropriator, I'm excited to be an appropriator. I want to see that we do everything we possibly can to fully fund at the federal level, and we can, fully fund all of the endeavors that you are taking good care of. It's exciting to be in your company. Thank you.

Thank you so much to everyone coming here to testify today. I'm a former community college professor myself and I know that community colleges are just such a backbone of social mobility and America's workforce development. So thank you for all that you do. These institutions do something that no other part of our higher education system does, which is meet employers where they are, train workers for the jobs that actually exist in those communities. And I think that it is only at the beginning of what we can actually be able to achieve with our community college system. There's so much more potential. Specifically, I think that designing a successful career program is only the first step. Once something works, we have to do a better job of scaling it up. How can we take proven success stories like some of the ones we've heard today from local examples to regional and national solutions to our workforce shortage issues? To give you one example, in my district, San Joaquin Delta Community College has something called Project HOPE, which is a nursing program that deals with our nursing shortage and is run in close coordination with local employers. They take folks that have been on the job in some cases for decades, maybe even a local janitor who has worked but has qualifications, they put that person through nursing school at Delta College and then they're able to work at the hospital where just a couple of years earlier they might have been doing the cleaning, now they're taking the vitals and helping the patients directly. It's an incredible success story. Graduates more than 160 nurses annually. The only thing missing is federal resources to help scale more programs like that across the country. We've done a lot of hard work identifying the workforce shortages, designing programs that work, but we still see only pockets of success and not the sustained effort that I think is necessary. So Dr. Sims, my first question is for you. Strengthening community college training grants are one of the few federal tools aimed at scaling proven career and technical education models. How can we make sure that more successful programs can access this funding at scale?

Thank you for the question. And we have a similar program with our LPN Launch program with the Huntsville Hospital System in the state of Alabama where we provide opportunities for individuals who have been in careers such as phlebotomists, medication assistants, and they have an opportunity to earn their way into nursing positions. And that program has been incredibly successful because it was based directly on the demand from industry and we've identified individuals in the community who can benefit. And so opportunities for us to highlight and scale those partnerships through direct funding through the expansion of the strengthening community college training grants will allow us to scale. We have the proven models. We've proven the success of these programs. And so to be able to scale them would be incredible because we can provide, someone mentioned earlier, the suite of careers associated with healthcare professionals from the CNAs, the phlebotomists to the registered nurses all the way to BSN. Our colleges can do that work. And so as you consider your work and expanding the opportunities for which we can qualify programs that have proven demonstrated success in the areas, that would allow us to scale these programs, these proven models for our communities.

Thank you. Mr. Jyotishi, what is missing from the federal toolkit in order to scale up more of these models more successfully across the country?

Something I might put a fine point on is the need for technical assistance. Many colleges develop some of these best practices for workforce training without being able to connect with one another. We've seen this firsthand in our accelerator for community colleges in the innovation economy with the National Science Foundation. If the Department of Education and Labor could foster more support for colleges in implementing these high-impact practices, that would be something that would go a mile further in addition to the expansion of resources to support the creation of programs. You know, the other thing I might say in response to Representative DeLauro's question as well with regards to quality outcomes, I think it's always amazing how our colleges not only help folks find a job, but ultimately economic security and more impact practices that could lead to that outcome defined as people earning a local living wage, whether you use the MIT living wage calculator or the ALICE calculator or what have you, that's what we need. Unfortunately, there are some occupations in this country where you work full-time in early childhood education or in some healthcare sectors where you don't earn a local living wage. And that is not a challenge our community colleges can solve on their own, that is a labor market challenge, but I wanted to put that out there for the record that this outcomes component is critical, but it's also sometimes difficult in light of the way our labor market is structured. But to go back to the question, I would point to technical assistance as a bit of a gap, and I think interagency collaboration could also unlock some of those. I think there's a lot that could be done with Department of Ed, Labor working with NSF, Ag, Energy, some of these other agencies that do this well.

Thank you so much, and I yield back.

Okay, well, I want to thank all of our panel, Mr. Morgan, Mr. Jyotishi, Dr. Hall, Dr. Sims. Thank you all for what you literally bring to the table and the work that you do. And I think you have seen by the conversation that we've had today that you have a lot of friends here in Washington and the Congress for community technical colleges. So we look forward to working with you, and with that, we are adjourned. Oh. Please, please, I'm sorry.

Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, and I know we're coming to a conclusion here. The issue of quality education and what that is, the definition of that, is critically important to this committee. I say that because we have to, there is a prioritization of programs, etcetera. We need to know what works, what is your methodology of being able to define that quality education. Quite frankly, I get tired of hearing people talk about programs about which they think are good, bad, or indifferent, and they don't know jack about whether or not this program is working, what difference it makes in people's lives, etcetera. So that your definition of that and what we can do about that really is critical, and I hope you can get back to us through the Chairman that kind of information when we're making the determination of where we're going to put our federal dollars. Let me just make one quick comment about the workforce Pell Grants. You heard what I said in my opening remarks. I want to support, I'm a strong supporter of Pell, you know, I have been for a very long time, and increasing the Pell amount, I don't want it to be flat. I think that we should continue to increase this. This offers short-term programs. It potentially, this is where we get to quality, my friends, it could lead to the proliferation of low-quality programs, specifically those that are offered, I'll just be frank, by predatory online for-profit companies. You know, they draw in people, say, oh, it's a quick six-week, eight-week program, 10-week program, and it gives you nothing on the other side of it. This concept was pushed through the reconciliation bill, and it was on a party-line vote. I don't want to get to that, but it was a party-line vote to doing that. But what we need to do is to have input. This is not a partisan issue. This is an issue for us to face nationwide, so we need to figure out what it is that is going to require on this is input from both sides of the aisle. This Appropriations Committee is responsible for funding Pell Grants and making sure that the programs work as we pass the bills in a bipartisan way and with that kind of cooperation. I want, we need and we need your help with the stronger guardrails for these short-term workforce Pell Grants as we move forward. And that would be a critical ingredient for us, I think, to share the bipartisan support that we need to make this work. I thank you very, very much for what you do. Strong believer in community colleges, I really do think you're the, you know, you are the answer to millions of young people and older people to be able to succeed economically. So thank you for what you do, appreciate it.

Thank you, Ms. DeLauro, and thank you to each again. We look forward to working with you and how we can work with you with community and technical colleges, and with that, we're dismissed.