Northern Exposure: Assessing the Evolving Threat Landscape at America's Northern Border

The Committee on Homeland Security, on the Border Security and Enforcement will come to order. Without objection, the Chair may declare the committee in recess at any point. The purpose of today's hearing is to examine the unique security challenges posed by the northern border, including its vast geographic remote terrain, limited personnel, technology and infrastructure gaps, and policy differences between the United States and Canada, related to visas, asylums, and border screening. I'd like to thank our colleagues from the Counterterrorism and Intelligence Subcommittee for partnering with us for this joint hearing. Without objection, I seek unanimous consent that the gentlemen from Michigan, Mister Thanedar, the gentlewoman from Illinois, Mister Ramirez, and the gentlemen from New York, Mister Kennedy, be permitted to sit with the subcommittee and ask questions of the witnesses. I would like to now recognize myself for an opening statement. Good afternoon and welcome to the joint Border Security and Enforcement and Counterterrorism and Intelligence subcommittee hearing on the evolving threat landscape at our nation's northern border. As one of the largest land borders in the world, spanning nearly four thousand contiguous miles, the US border with Canada stretches across dense forest, rugged mountains, and more than two thousand miles of waterways, including the Great Lakes. Naturally, this diverse terrain provides unique security challenges for the Department of Homeland Security. Some of the trends we will discuss today can be in part attributed to the level of security President Trump and his administration have achieved at the southwest border. The sustained decline in illegal crossings and apprehensions over the past year and a half are unlike anything we have seen in three decades. In May, the United States Border Patrol apprehension along the southwest border were ninety-four percent lower than the monthly average of the Biden-Harris administration. But as illegal crossings have declined, transnational criminal organizations have to shift away from their traditional smuggling routes. The car- the cartels exploit vulnerabilities wherever they may exist. They take advantage of potential security gaps that allow them to traffic illegal drugs, to smuggle humans, weapons, or other contraband. We cannot allow the Northern Corridor to become the next preferred corridor for these criminal networks. And yet, customs and border protection data has shown that over the last year, illegal crossings have begun to shift north. While overall encounters at the northern border have dropped when compared with the overall national encounters, the percentage of encounters at the northern border have more than doubled since FY twenty-three. Likewise, drug seizures at the northern border have steadily increased, reaching record levels this year. Over the last five fiscal years, CBP has also encountered over fifteen hundred individuals on the terrorist screening data set. Attempting, these individuals have attempted to cross the northern border at or between ports of entry. These trends underscore an important reality. Although the northern border presents a different threat profile than the southwest border, it remains a national concern. As such, security along the northern border has improved considerably over the past decade. The Department of Homeland Security has deployed additional surveillance capabilities, strength in air and marine operations, enhanced intelligence gathering and sharing, and increased coordination with homeland security investigations and other federal, state, and local and tribal partners. These investments have improved situational r- awareness along one of the world's longest international borders. Even with these investment, significant challenges remain, and Congress has a continued responsibility to ensure that border security is guided by measurable performance, modern technology, and a comprehensive strategy that addresses threats across all domains. Today's hearing provides an opportunity to examine where progress has been made, identify the gaps that remain, and determine what additional authorities, resources, and oversight are necessary to continue securing the northern border. As criminal organizations adapt, so too must the United States government. Congress must ensure that federal law enforcement agencies and its partners have the personnel, infrastructure, and technology necessary to protect our northern border and safeguard the American people. Thank you to our witnesses for being here today, and I look forward to our productive discussion and continued partnership. I would now like to recognize the ranking member, the gentleman from California, Mister Correa, for his opening statement.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want to welcome today our witnesses. Thank you for taking time, your interest for being here with us today. So the Chairman just said America and Canada share the world's longest non-militarized border in the world, spanning thirteen states and eight Canadian provinces. This is thanks to a strong alliance and friendship we have with Canada. Canada, great partners in international security, and over the decades both Canadian and American soldiers have fought side by side and have died side by side. And Canada, of course, is our second largest trading partner in the world, with trade now over eight hundred and seventy billion dollars, and of course over three hundred thousand individuals cross the Canadian border on a daily basis. And when it comes to security on the northern border, it's critical that we work with our Canadian neighbors and partners to combat the threats we face, while we also encourage smooth travel and trade. The US and Canada, as neighbors, we face similar challenges. Arms trafficking, drug mules, human smugglers, and terrorists attempting to cross the northern border to and from Canada, both North and South. And Democrats, I would say, and my Republican colleagues, I believe, we're committed to upholding the lawful security and secure northern border. But what we will not support, however, are immigration enforcement agencies using unnecessarily aggressive tactics on American citizens or putting their health at risk. Let me repeat, what we will not tolerate are immigration enforcement officers trampling on the constitutional rights of American citizens. And we will not support the diversion of precious American resources from national security priorities, criminal investigations, and the facilitation of trade and travel across the northern border. Sadly, we've watched masked agents roaming on American streets, harassing American citizens. We've watched immigration officers stop and ask people for their immigration status based on the color of their skin, ethnicity, accent, or job they are working. Back home, Orange County, California, people ask me if they need to carry their passport and papers with them. And today, they ask me if that's even enough. As we see US citizens being detained and arrested, American citizens being detained and arrested, even when they prove they are American citizens, even when their American citizenship is not in question, they're still being detained, arrested, and held. We've seen reports of CBP and NICE using facial recognition technologies to build databases of immigrants as well as American citizens. American citizens expressing their First Amendment right, the right to free speech, are being tracked and monitored by federal our federal government. If they say anything at all, it's critical of this administration. We've seen DHS leadership tell their agents that they don't need a judicial warrant to enter American homes and instead just need administrative warrant, signed by a supervisor. And this is a clear violation of the fourth the fourth amendment of our constitution. ICE, CBP, we, none of us, are above the law. The President of the United States promised that he would go after the worst of the worst. Instead, the administration has redirected thousands of law enforcement agents from investigating serious crimes like sex trafficking, child exploitation, terrorism, drug smuggling to focus on conducting immigration sweeps. And for what? To meet an arbitrary de- mass deportation target of one million deportations a year. I don't know if you saw this article, just came out. Sister Letty, a Texas nun, taken by ice while walking to Sunday Mass. This happened just this last Sunday. Is this making our country safer? And by the way, she works at a nurse as well. And she was released after her colleagues from both Democrat and Republican side made some phone calls. In attempt to meet your goals of deportation, you've pulled thousands of law enforcement agents uh agents away from your investigations of serious crimes like child sex trafficking, money laundering, and fentanyl trafficking. You've also pulled agents responsible for sur- securing the northern border away from the border. This is despite the consistent staffing and resource shortages at the northern border. Many of these agents agents have no tr- training in the interior how to address American citizens. These agents have been put on the front lines of American immigration sweeps, I should say, in American territory. And sadly, today, Americans are witnessing firsthand The costs of these decisions. Rene Good and Alex Petty, both US citizens, were shot and killed in Minneapolis while protesting. Miramar Martinez, on her way to donate clothing to her local church, was shot five times, five times by a border border patrol agent. After shooting her, the agent bragged, And I quote, " I fired five rounds and she had seven holes." Put that in your books, boys. So I ask, how is all this making our homeland safer? Long time ago, nine eleven. Post nine eleven, homeland security was created to protect American citizens, to protect Americans, from a foreign terrorist attack. And this is what we have today. I look forward to hearing from our witnesses today about the very real challenges that we have at the northern border and how we can help you address those challenges. Thank you, Mister Chairman, and I yield.

Uh, thank you, Ranking Member Correa. I now recognize the Chairman of the Subcommittee on Counterterrorism and Intelligence, the gentleman from Texas, Mister Flueger. to deliver his opening statement.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, good afternoon, and I'd like to thank uh our witnesses uh for being here and also uh the the Border Subcommittee for partnering uh with the Counterterrorism Subcommittee on such an important issue. Uh from those of us who come from border states, the consequences of unsecure borders are not theoretical, they're a lived reality. In Texas under the Biden administration, those consequences were unmistakable. When the federal government fails to uphold basic enforcement responsibilities, Communities bear the brunt. That is exactly what happened in my state. Public safety deteriorates, law enforcement has pushed past operational limits, and national security vulnerabilities expand in ways that Washington should never have allowed. As we assess the challenges before us, Congress must broaden its focus to include the counterterrorism vulnerabilities emerging along the northern border. For years, the southwest border has demanded urgent attention, and rightly so. But today, we are seeing a troubling shift. Individuals of concern, including those appearing on the terror watch watch list, are increasingly attempting to reach the United States through Canada. This trend requires us to examine not only illegal crossings, but the broader counterterrorism landscape that dangerous actors may seek to exploit. And with major international events taking place this summer, including the World Cup happening right now, the stakes are even higher. Larger scale go global gatherings, especially those with a cross-border nexus, create attractive targets for hostile actors. And it's imperative that we strengthen our posture and close gaps that could be exploited during these heightened, uh, international attention events. We know that terrorist organizations rely on complex methods to move people, money, and prohibited materials across borders. Yet our current posture does not fully account for how those methods intersect with the vulnerabilities along the northern border. And we must deepen our understanding of the cross-border fat- facilitation networks that enable illicit movement. including those tied to criminal smuggling pipelines and confront the on-line extremist ecosystems that fuel radicalization and recruitment. Combined with differing immigration postures between the U. S. and Canada across border travel, demonstrates increasing risk that we must be prepared to preempt at border crossings. We must also strengthen defenses against prohibited materials from chemical and biological attacks to radiological and nuclear components. Although the White Houses Counterterrorism strategy prioritizes preventing terrorist uh access to such materials northern border interdiction remains uneven and likewise cross-border financial flows, including illicit finance and money laundering, must be rigorously monitored to prevent funds from supporting terrorism. Today's hearing is about being proactive, is about recognizing merging threats, acknowledging where our defenses fall short, and ensuring that federal law enforcement has the support, coordination, and resources needed to keep our country safe. As cartels, transnational criminal organizations, and violent extremist groups look north for new pathways to exploit, we must ensure that the northern border is prepared for the challenges ahead. You're gonna hear a lot about President Trump. You're gonna hear a lot about enforcing the laws. Well, if we don't like the laws, then we should change them right here in this body. But right now we have laws that need to be upheld and for four years we saw a complete complicitness of not enforcing those laws, and that's why we're here today. Unfortunately, that's why we have to talk about these subjects. So if we could just agree that our executive branch would enforce the laws evenly, then we'd be okay. I yield back and thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Uh, thank you, Chairman Flueger, I now recognize the ranking member of the full committee, the gentleman from the great state of Mississippi, Mister Thompson, to deliver his opening statement.

Thank you very much, uh, Mr. Chairman, from the great state of Mississippi also. Uh, good afternoon. Uh, this hearing has been called to examine the threat landscape at our northern border. The northern border faces threats and vulnerabilities ranging from wildlife and drug trafficking to human smuggling. Democrats are committed to addressing those threats. However, we cannot limit today's oversight to just northern border and ignore the flagrant abuses from DHS operations across the country. That would be like fixing the fence arou- that that would be like fixing the fence around a house that's collapsed. Since the beginning of this second term, President Trump has weaponized DHS and other law enforcement agencies to carry out his cruel mass deportation agenda. Americans across the country have witnessed the cruel agenda firsthand. which has yielded nothing but chaos. The administration claimed that they were going after the worst of the worst. Instead, they have been targeting anyone they suspect to be undocumented based on the color of their skin and accent they have. Nearly forty-three percent of those detained by ICE by January twenty twenty six had no criminal conviction or charges. Let me say that again. By January twenty twenty six, nearly forty-three percent of those detained by ICE had zero criminal convictions or charges so much for the worst of the worst masked, unidentifiable immigration agents have been conducting nontargeted operations, abducting citizens and non-citizens alike in unmarked vans. There are no limits to where people could be arrested. The Trump administration has deployed or threatened to deploy armed federal agents to sensitive locations like churches, hospitals, schools, daycare, and polling locations. People should not fear from being arrested while praying at houses of worship, seeking medical care, or attending to their children. and ICE and CBP agents should not be deployed near voting facilities to intimidate voters. In fact, it is illegal for them to enter polling places. The human cost of these operations cannot be ignored. Countless number of American citizens and protesters have been pepper sprayed, beaten, tased, and aggressively arrested. People have died from these operations. Rene Good and Alex Prattie, both American citizens, were shot and killed by DHS while protesting. This is not who we are as a country. The constitutional costs cannot be ignored either. Last May, a senior ICE official issued guidance instructing agents to ignore the Fourth Amendment and enter private property without judicial warrants. Additionally, Border Czar Tom Holman bragged about a government database to track American citizens exercising their First Amendment right to protest. Big Tech and social media c- media companies have received hundreds of DHS administrative subpoenas requesting the names emails and phone numbers of social media accounts that track and criticize DHS. DHS agents have tracked down individual American citizens, threatening them and asking for them to remove posts criticizing the department. The shooting down of protesters in the streets and the surveillance and intimidation of those who speak out is reminiscent of our authoritarian adversaries. This should be frightening to all of us. Yet, Republicans keep funding this administration's dangerous agenda. Congressional Republicans just passed a bill giving DHS seventy billion dollars to fund Trump's immigration agenda for the rest of his term. This is on top of the hundred and forty billion dollars ICE and CBP received in last year's big ugly bill, most of which has not been spent yet. Combined, that's more than seven years' worth of funding for these agencies in less than a year. For the past year and a half, Democrats have advocated for comprehensive and common sense reforms to DHS immigration enforcement and at every turn Trump, DHS, and congressional Republicans have bucked every attempt toward change and reform. But while Republicans bury their head in the sand and turn a blind eye to this harmful agenda Democrats will call attention to the abuses and hold this administration accountable. With that, Mr. Chair, I yield back.

Uh, the gentleman yields back. Thank you for your opening statement. Other members of the committee are reminded that opening statements may be submitted for the record. I would now like to formally introduce our witnesses. The first is Mr. Jason Snyder, who serves as the Acting Director, Acting Deputy Chief of the US Border Patrol within US Customs and Border Protec Protection. The second is Mr. Chris Holtzler, who serves as Executive Director of Operations of the Office of Field Operations within US Customs and Border Protection. Our third witness is Mr. Michael Kroll, who serves as the Assistant Director of Domestic Operations within HSI. And our fourth witness is Miss Heather McLeod, who serves as the Director of Homeland Security and Justice at the Government Accountability Offices. I'd first like to thank all of our witnesses uh for being with us today. Uh at this time pursuant to Committee Rule HC, I would ask our witnesses if they would please raise their right hand and please stand. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you will give before the Committee on Homeland Security of the United States House of Representatives will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God. May the record reflect that all of the witnesses have responded in the affirmative. Uh, please be seated. Uh, we now turn to opening statements on behalf of our panel this afternoon, uh, and I would now recognize Mister Schneider for five minutes to summarize his opening statement.

Chairman Guest, Ranking Member Thompson, Ranking Member Correa, Chairman Flueger, Ranking Member Magaziner, and distinguished members of the subcommittees. Good afternoon. I am Jason Schneider, Acting Deputy Chief of the United States Border Patrol. It is an honor to represent the dedicated men and women who secure our borders every day, often in remote and demanding conditions. Over my thirty years of service, I have served along the Southwest, coastal, and northern borders, each presenting unique challenges. The northern border is a critical front in our national security mission. Spanning more than fifty-five hundred miles across thirteen states, it is the longest international border we secure. This vast expanse encompasses dense forests, major waterways, rugged terrain, and sparsely populated regions with limited infrastructure. The size and complexity of this environment, combined with rapidly changing weather, requir- require an aggressive and layered enforcement strategy. We leverage every available tool and resource to deny transnational criminal organizations any opportunity to exploit our border. The threat environment continues to evolve. in every state is now considered a border state. Smugglers and criminal organizations constantly adapt their tactics in response to our enforcement posture. While overall seizures have fallen fifty-five percent compared to last year, narcotics trafficking remains a persistent threat. Border Patrol agents are interdicting dangerous drugs, including fentanyl, before they reach American communities. We are implementing a holistic approach to to address the northern border threat. Our workforce, authorized for two thousand two hundred and sixty-nine agents along the northern border, is being expanded to meet the operational demands of this environment. We are increasing the number of agents assigned to the northern border to ensure we have the personnel needed to close gaps, surge resources, and maintain operational control. The results speak for themselves. Over the past seventeen months, we have made measurable progress in securing our borders. Following a peak in fiscal year twenty twenty-four, when northern border apprehensions reached over twenty-three thousand, we achieved a sixty-seven percent reduction in fiscal year twenty-five and an additional twenty-two percent decrease this fiscal year. We have apprehended thirty-three gang and cartel members this year alone, including members of MS-thirteen, Trend de Aragua, and the Latin Kings. These results are the product of the aggressive enforcement, targeted operational adjustments, and the consistent application of consequences through prosecution, detention, and removal for those who violate US immigration law. We are leveraging technology as a force multiplier. Our layered technology enabled approach integrates surveillance systems, remote sensors, mobile detection capabilities, air and marine assets, and advanced communication networks. These tools provide our agents with the advantage needed to detect, identify, classify, and respond to illicit activity. These investments are essential to maintaining operational awareness in remote and challenging terrain. However, technology alone is not enough. Infrastructure investments, including access roads, facilities, and communication systems are critical to sustaining our our operational reach and agent safety. We are committed to accelerating the development and deployment of these assets. Continued investment in infrastructure is necessary to eliminate gaps, maximize the effectiveness of our personnel and technology, and ensure we stay ahead of those who threaten our security. The northern border environment remains highly dynamic and challenging. Transnational criminal organizations and cartels continue to pose a persistent threat to the United States and Canada. Migration patterns will shift in response to our actions. We are unwavering in our commitment to expanding our workforce, advancing technology, strengthening infrastructure, and maintaining relentless operational focus to confront these threats and safeguard our nation. Border security is national security. Our agents are exceptionally trained, resilient, and deeply committed to the mission. Every day they stand on the front lines, conducting rigorous patrols, responding swiftly to emergencies, interdicting sophisticated smuggling operations, and executing complex search and rescue missions under the most demanding and hazardous conditions. The men and women of the United States Border Patrol consistently deli- deliver results restoring order and protecting the American people with unmatched discipline and determination. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today.

I look forward to your questions.

Uh, thank you, Mister Snyder. I now recognize Mister Holzler for five minutes to summarize his opening statement.

Good afternoon, Chairman Guest, Ranking Member Thompson, Ranking Member Acreia, Chairman Flueger, Ranking Member Magasiner, and distinguished members of the subcommittees. It is an honor to appear before you today on behalf of the dedicated men and women of U S Customs and Border Protection's Office of Field Operations, commonly referred to as LFO. OFO plays a critical role in safeguarding U. S. borders. Our ports of entry, essential for lawful commerce and travel, are constantly targeted by transnational criminal organizations and others seeking to exploit the high volume of cross-border activity. Along our nation's northern border, dedicated OFO personnel, stationed at one hundred and eighteen border crossings, safeguard our homeland, enforce immigration and trade laws, and ensure the efficient flow of lawful trade and commerce. Within this complex in- environment, the northern border faces persistent and evolving threats. These include the trafficking of narcotics and other contraband, inadmissible travelers, human smuggling, as well as biological and agricultural threats that could harm our communities and and economy. Adding to these challenges, and unique to northern border ports of entry, is the practice of flag-polling. This occurs when foreign nationals with temporary Canadian status attempt to re-enter Canada through a U. S. port of entry to access immigration services. While Canada's policy changes have significantly reduced this activity, OFO remains vigilant, ensuring our resources are not diverted from critical security functions and that our ports are not exploited for purposes outside their intended roles. Despite these complexities, our officers deliver significant results through diligent enforcement actions and strategic operations. In fiscal year twenty twenty-five, OFO officers along the northern border processed over fifty-six million travelers and nearly twenty-five million conveyances. Our effective enforcement operations led to the seizure of nearly eleven thousand pounds of narcotics, which represents a significant fifty-one percent increase from FY twenty-four. These results directly stem from our ability to adapt and target our enforcement operations to meet dynamic threats. I'd like to share a couple of recent examples. In June of twenty twenty-five, operation Motor City, A targeted enforcement operation in the Detroit field office disrupted narcotics and illicit contraband smuggling through specific ports of entry. This operation culminated in nine seizures, including three hundred forty-one pounds of cocaine and a federal prosecution. In September of twenty twenty-five, Operation Northern Lights in Montana targeted northbound narcotic smuggling. Beyond drug seizures, the operation led to an inbound seizure of stolen Native American artifacts and initiated a criminal investigation. These operations highlight the importance of OFO enforcement operations, considering how seemingly unrelated criminal activities can intersect. These special targeted operations are also in addition to the inbound and outbound enforcement actions and seizures we perform every day. Just two weeks ago, near the Blue Water Bridge, OFO selected a vehicle, bound for Canada, for examination and intercepted one hundred thirty-three pounds of cocaine. OFO's strategy and enforcement approach enables us to respond effectively to dynamic threats. We lever we leverage specialized canines, advanced non-intrusive inspection technology, and the experience, vigilance, and dedication of our highly trained law enforcement personnel. Our approach also includes enhanced information sharing and collaboration with other federal agencies, state, local, and tribal partners and our Canadian counterparts. To further strengthen our capabilities, we continue to invest in our personnel and port infrastructure. As of March thirty-first, the northern border is staffed at ninety-five point nine percent of its allocated CBP officers. We expect to hire an additional two hundred officers through Working Family Tax Cut Act funding which will further strengthen our inspection, targeting, and enforcement capabilities. The Infrastructure Investment Jobs Act also provided three point four billion dollars to modernize twenty northern border land ports of entry including three hundred and thirty-three million dollars for equipment. Crucially, our northern border enforcement efforts are amplified through strong partnerships. Shifting trends and adversary tactics mean that efforts to counter transnational criminal activity require coordination and cooperation across the law enforcement community. OFO works extensively with our CBP and DHS colleagues, as well as federal, state, local, tribal, and international partners, and provides critical capabilities toward the whole of government approach to address drug trafficking and other transnational threats along the northern border. The men and women of OFO are dedicated to securing our nation's borders. With your continued support, we will remain vigilant against evolving threats and ensure the integrity of our ports of entry, which are vital to both national security and economic prosperity. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. I look forward to your questions.

Thank you, Mister Holzer, I would now like to recognize Mister Kroll for five minutes to summarize his opening statement.

Thank you, sir. Chairman Guest, Chairman Flueger, Ranking Members Thompson, Correa, and Magasiner, and distinguished members of the subcommittees, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. Being the largest investigative agency within DHS and wielding some of the most expansive investigative authorities in the federal government, HSI special agents, criminal analysts and support staff operate on the front lines of a rapidly evolving threat landscape. With our eight thousand five hundred special agents assigned to over two hundred and forty domestic field offices, and ninety international offices, we are well positioned to confront threats from drug cartels, human trafficking, and weapon smuggling networks. money laundering organizations, child exploitation and cyber-enabled crime, networks who proliferate illicit trade, travel and finance, in addition to investing in crimes that intersect with terrorism and hostile foreign actors. My testimony today will focus on how the global threat environment is evolving along our northern border, how HSI is addressing these threats, and how the Homeland Security Task Forces, co-led by HSI and FBI, have significantly enhanced our ability to synchronize efforts across the law enforcement enterprise to disrupt and dismantle cartels trafficking networks and designated foreign terrorist organizations from root to branch. The United States and Canada share the longest international border in the world. As such, HSI maintains a a robust presence in Canada with six offices, five of which house HSI's visa security program special agents. Our forward-deployed workforce and country allows for enhanced integration of efforts with CBSA, RCMP, tribal and provincial partners, among others, building capacity, sharing intelligence, coordinating operations, and supporting bilateral investigations. Human smuggling remains a persistent and dangerous threat. When networks attempt to smuggle aliens across the border, these attempts can result in a tragic loss of life. As a result of a failed human human smuggling attempt from Canada into the United States, eight aliens, inclu including two children perished. HSI identified and arrested six members of that transnational criminal organization responsible for this tragedy. Delivering consequences to those who perpetrate such horrific actions takes close coordination between HSI special agents, prosecutors from DOJ, and the brave members of US Border Patrol, CBP, OFO, among others. In twenty twenty four, Canadian law enforcement dismantled a clandestine super lab in Ontario, sparking concern that Canada was emerging as a source country. While information shows that Canadian-produced fentanyl remains relatively low compared to Mexican sources, we do see the seizures of cocaine and fentanyl at the northern border have increased, underscoring the northern border's role as a key vector for high value narcotics. Weapons trafficking follows similar similar routes. In the past year and a half, HSI has initiated seventy firearms trafficking investigations with a nexus to Canada resulting in the seizure of over four hundred firearms and fifty thousand rounds of ammunition and dozens of arrests and indictments. These efforts are critical to disrupting the procurement networks that arm violent criminal groups on both sides of the border. TCOs also target U. S. victims through a myriad of fraud and on-line exploitation. A recent joint investigation dismantled a Canadian-based criminal organization that defrauded elderly Americans of over twenty-one million dollars. Even more troubling is the rise in child exploitation cases, with criminals using open web and dark web platforms, encrypted technologies, and other forms of messaging to grim victims in trafficking sil- child sexual abuse material across the digital border. The HSI-led DHS Cybercrime Center is a world leader in this space. and in partnership with Canadian authorities, are using every resource available to us to protect our most vulnerable children. The criminal activities I have described today generate substantial illicit proceeds. Sophisticated, complex financial investigations are at the core of the HSI mission. To address the challenges, HSI uses our cross-border Financial Crime Center, the HSTF, or Homeland Security Task Force National Coordination Center and our partner and international counterparts. to identify and dismantle these illicit financial networks. As we confront these evolving threats, I respectfully ask for your continued support of our workforce to ensure that we remain in a position of advantage against our adversaries. Thank you again for the opportunity to testify and I look forward to your questions.

Uh, thank you, Mr. Kroll. I would now like to recognize Miss McLeod for five minutes to summarize her opening statement.

Chairman Guest and Flueger, Ranking Members Thompson, Correa, and Magaziner, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to be here today to discuss GAO's work examining CBP operations and resources at the northern border. Security threats along the northern border, like drug and firearm smuggling, continue. At the same time, threats such as drone crossings are increasing. My testimony today focuses on key challenges CBP faces in securing the northern border and actions that GAO's work has identified to help CBP address them. GA ro- reported on northern border security in twenty nineteen and again earlier this year. This work has shown that CBP has expanded surveillance technology along the northern border. But a lack of clear performance metrics and persistent staffing shortages remain. Under the reconciliation bills, CBP was allocated billions of dollars to hire and train agents and support staff and to purchase additional surveillance technology. As CBP spends this additional funding, it is important that decision-making is supported by planning, including clear goals and performance measures. Regarding CBP resources along the northern border, GAO found that in recent years, CBP use of aircraft, boats, and surveillance technology along the northern border increased. For example, technology like camera towers and sensors have been increasingly deployed. With reconciliation funding, CBP has an opportunity to expand these efforts even more and increase its use of emergency technologies such as autonomous surveillance towers. But our twenty nineteen work found that CBP does not have performance met- measures to gauge how effectively it is securing the US-Canada border. This includes the effectiveness of various border security investments, including border barriers and technology. Such measures could help CB uh CBP assess the effectiveness of northern border operations, and take corrective actions as necessary. CBP staffing on the northern border is a persistent challenge. GAO found that the number of CBP agents along the northern border decreased from twenty nineteen to twenty twenty four. This decrease in agents assigned to the northern border also came at a time when authorized levels were going up, meaning that CBP wasn't able to f- fill the positions it deemed necessary at the northern border locations. In addition to uniformed agents, our prior work also found that Border Patrol had not filled or retained staff for certain specialist positions across the northern border. Specialists have a range of responsibilities, including monitoring surveillance technology, such as the feeds from camera towers and ground sensors. We recommended that CBP develop a plan to address these workforce gaps. Other factors that may continue to stretch CBP presence at the northern border, and affect CBP's ability to meet its mission more generally, include increased efforts at the southern border, and an expected upcoming retirement surge. We previously reported that CBP has taken action to strengthen its recruitment, hiring, and retention efforts for Border Patrol agents. Additionally, CBP received billions of dollars in the last year, to hire and train additional c b p agents and officers and provide recruitment and retention bonuses which could help c b p address these workforce challenges in conclusion c b p continues to focus its border security operations along the northern border on key threat areas while also monitoring and addressing other threats such as vehicle and drone crossings Addressing our recommendations related to staffing and performance management would help CBP assess the effectiveness of its northern border efforts, which is particularly important as CBP draws down reconciliation funds. Addressing our recommendations would also help ensure that Border Patrol has sufficient personnel with the appropriate skills to effectively use surveillance technology. Thank you for inviting me today.

I wanna thank again all of our witnesses uh for their opening statement and their willingness to participate in today's hearing. Uh, members will now be recognized by order of seniority for five minutes of questioning. Uh, I will begin by recognizing myself for five minutes. Uh, first um to our um witnesses uh we want to thank you for the incredible job that you've done. The men and women uh at CBP, uh at DHS, at HSI. Um, what you have accomplished over the last eighteen months can be described as nothing more than miraculous. Uh, we have seen uh what I believe uh is a dramatic change uh in the um carrying out of the law not only the northern border but as well as the southern border. Uh, we have seen numbers of encounters drop dramatically. We have seen increases in seizures. Uh, and I believe that today America is safer, uh, and that we are more secure than at any time, uh, in our nation's history, or at least in our recent history. Um, Mister Snyder, you mentioned in your opening statement that you have served for for thirty years. Uh, and thank you for those three decades of service. Uh, you mentioned some of the challenges that exist along the northern border, uh, particularly with the, uh, size of the area that you must cover, some four thousand plus miles. Uh, also the geography, uh, but that varies from one end of the border to the other. Um, I wanna ask you, um, our encounters along the northern border, uh, President Trump uh took office. Are those total encounters up or down?

Chairman, thank you for the question. The apprehensions along the northern border are down since last year, uh roughly twenty-two percent this fiscal year, and they were down sixty-seven percent, FY twenty-five compared to FY twenty-four.

And are drug seizures up or down since President Trump took office?

Drug seizures along the northern border for the US Border Patrol are down by fifty-five percent. However, we are still seeing narcotics that are still um getting by from the southwest border uh going up to northern border cities and being distributed out. We are working with our local, state, federal partners and uh attacking those networks.

And at the northern border, are seizures are up, if I'm not mistaking, narcotic seizures?

Yes. Cross-border they're they're down, but within the within the northern border regions uh they are up, yes.

Okay, so cross-border encounters down. cross-border drug seizures down uh but uh it's and you uh also mentioned that you are in the process of hiring additional agents uh that will be staged at the northern border is that correct

so that is correct uh it's a really good news story we're making history as we as we speak uh last year alone we had eighty six thousand us citizens uh apply to become a border patrol agent this fiscal year sixty thousand in the pipeline we currently have seven thousand in the pre-employment pipeline in two thousand Border Patrol agents at the Border Patrol Academy right now, and a lot of those will be going to the northern border. Uh, we have not lowered our standards. We have adjusted the schedules at the U. S. Border Patrol Academy, uh, and we're at two shifts. Um, so it's it's good news for for us. Our goal is to have thirty-five hundred Border Patrol agents assigned to the northern border in the very near future.

And let me ask you this question I would routinely ask Secretary Mayorkas when he would testify uh before this committee. Uh, is the northern border secure?

No, not right now. We're getting there though, sir. We are we are implementing a holistic approach to include increased staffing, infrastructure, um, technology. Uh, we're close. We'll get there.

And do we have operational control of the border?

I mean, I th- I think we have a good understanding. We do not have one hundred percent situational awareness along the fifty-five hundred miles on the northern border. Um, but our agents are out there every day working hard, leveraging technology, leveraging our partnerships, uh, with local, state, and federal, and - and our Canadian partners.

Thank you. Uh, Miss McLeod, uh, I have looked at the report from February twenty-sixth, uh, from the GAO. Um, it is a very thorough sixty-plus page report if you include exhibits. Uh, there, uh, on page fifty-one you have conclusion and then the recommendations for executive action. Uh, and the recommendations deal with staffing shortage in one particular subset, uh, of, uh, law enforcement officials, specifically the law enforcement information system specialist position. Is that correct?

Yes, that's correct.

Um, and it says in the conclusion that we are only seventy-seven percent uh, staffed for that particular position.

That was correct at the time of our review, yes.

Uh, and how many, uh, employees had CBP authorized for that particular position?

Uh, I don't have that number on here.

Does a hundred and fifteen sound correct?

That's about right, yeah.

Uh, and then looking at the report, eighty-eight percent of those, um, positions had been filled.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, so total number that needed to be filled to reach the conclusion and the recommendation Correct, correct.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Let me thank our witnesses for uh their testimony. Uh, Assistant Director Kroll, earlier this year, Steve Bannon and other mega-extremists suggested that I send agents to polling places, uh, locations for this November, and the White House refused to take the idea off the table. Although ICE officials have told this committee that there are no plans to send ICE to polling locations, Earlier this month, there were reports that ICE vehicles were in the parking lot of polling locations in California and just last week ICE agents entered a polling place in Syracuse, New York, uh to accost a poll worker for exercising her First Amendment rights. Have you been briefed on the Syracuse or California situation?

Sorry, I could I could speak generally to the to the Syracuse event.

Please.

Uh, it was my understanding it was a uh an interview uh for our office of professional responsibility unrelated to the polling event. It was it was merely that uh the person that was in that location uh was a suspect that the agents from uh OPR would be uh attempting to interview, unrelated to you know, any type of fraud or or that location.

Well, uh agents did go into the polling place.

I don't have the specifics, but it is my understanding that uh that person relayed that uh the location of her business was you know that specific location hence why they went to that location for the interview.

Mm-hmm. Okay. Okay. So are you familiar with section five ninety-two of title eighteen of the US Code?

Uh not directly, sir.

Well For your information, it bars the presence of armed federal officers at polling places, except to repel armed enemies of the United States. Um. So, uh, can you share with us any training that ICE agents might receive relative to section five ninety-two uh of title eighteen?

I don't have specifics on on that, sir.

Can you provide the committee uh with that information?

I'd be happy to get that back to you.

Right. And and the goal of this statute is to prevent voter intimidation. Uh, unfortunately, it appears that the goal of this administration uh in its public statement is to intimidate voters or interfere with state and local efforts to administer elections. Uh, and so I Will you commit uh to this committee today that you will not deploy ICE agents to or around polling places while voting is underway?

So what I can say is that there are no plans that I'm aware of uh for HSI special agents, uh to be you know in uh voting locations um at all.

So if it's a violation of the law, you'll you'll follow the law.

That's correct, sir.

Thank you. Uh, lastly, judicial warrants. Are you aware of ICE agents uh continuing to enter businesses or residences without judicial warrants?

So what I could say is HSI special agents use judicial warrants to enter locations, you know, that are uh reviewed by a whether a state or federal judge uh in furtherance to our criminal investigations uh every single day.

So are you aware of ICE agents entering businesses or residents without judicial warrants?

I'm not specifically aware of those instances, sir, no.

Thank you. Um Mister Snyder, are you aware of any such warrants?

No, sir, I'm not aware of any.

Mister Hol-

Ho- I'm Holzer, sir.

Okay.

Uh

Yes, sir.

Uh, no, sir.

Okay.

Thank you. Uh, you're back, Mister Chair.

Gentlemen, years back the uh chair now recognizes the gentlemen from Texas,

Uh, thank you, Mister Chairman. Um, and again, I thank the witnesses for your, your service, uh, despite a tough rhetoric, um and an unfortunate rhetoric, uh that you continue to keep our country safe, and we appreciate that. Um, if uh, I'll pick up where Mister Schneider kinda left off on, you know, how difficult it is to have situational awareness, operational control, continue to keep these uh, the border safe. So, um, had we not passed a Republican-only reconciliation bill with funding for DHS elements, uh, misma cloud, what what would that look like, as far as the resources needed to enforce the northern border? Had we not put, uh, in one big, beautiful bill, five thousand new customs officers, three thousand new border patrol agents, and twenty four and a half billion dollars into the coast guard amongst other things, what would that look like in keeping the northern border safe?

I think the reconciliation funding um from the one big beautiful bill and and the secure America act provided a a great opportunity um for these DHS components to increase their staffing levels upgrade facilities and increase their surveillance technology for sure.

Right. Mister Holzer, how hard is it um for CBP and Mister Schneider, uh how hard is it for CBP to allocate resources between hot spots when you have a massive surge with millions of people coming across one border, but then knowing that we have vulnerabilities on the northern border?

Sir, thank you for the question. It is a challenge. The last four years were extremely difficult for us. At any given time we had thirty percent of our border patrol agents out in the field doing patrol duties, thirty percent. The other seventy were doing processing, care, feeding, custody. Um, I'm proud to say today, right now, we have on any given day, eighty to ninety percent of our Border Patrol agents out there doing their job, leveraging uh uh making arrests, uh doing prosecutions, uh you know, working with ICE to to uh deport people from this country. So the morale is very high. If we didn't have this this funding, so thank you for that. Uh, another another issue would be our fleet. Our fleet was in dire situation. Uh, about seventy percent of our fleet had reached or b- was beyond their the life cycle. So, we are now getting new vehicles in. It's uh, we're we're in a good place, and and I've already talked about the staffing piece. We have a lot of agents at the academy.

Mr. Holzer, um, as far as the drones, uh, the air and marine operations use, h- how big of an advantage is that to, uh, to be able to patrol our borders and to see crossings, uh, at the time that they're happening?

So I'll actually defer that to Chief uh um Schneider as as his his office as who oversees that.

Okay. So thank you for the question. It's i- it's a force multiplier force. Uh, when we have agents flying s- uh SUAS, small drones, its ability to get up and see see a greater area to to be able to p- uh cover a larger area. And then of course working with our partners uh air and marine operations, um having that ability uh for persistent surveillance uh not only along the southern border but also on the northern border. It's a it's a huge force multiplier force.

Um, w- for the three of you specifically, Mr. Schneider, Holzer and Kroll, uh, I'll start with you, Mr. Kroll. Uh, do the do the agencies that you uh work with and and lead, do they enforce the law uh to the letter of the law?

They do, sir.

Okay, Mr. Holzer.

Oh, yes, sir.

Mr. Schneider.

Yes, sir. We do enforce the law proudly.

When somebody misses a notice to appear, is that a crime?

It's an administrative violation, yes.

Okay. But, mister Holzer, when they cross between um ports of entry and don't go into a port of entry, what is that considered?

Uh, and uh entering without inspection, sir.

And and what's the consequence of of that?

Um, arrest and and a detention, sir.

Okay. Um, mister Kroll, thank you for what uh um uh let me get to a a topic that's not very fun or nice, but um tell us a little bit about what HSI does to arrest and detain and prevent child sex trafficking from happening in this country.

Yeah, certainly, you know, very important topic, very important area. Uh, HSI special agents uh are at the forefront of this fight to protect our children. Uh, emerging technologies uh, you know, we know that child exploitation violators are early adopters of some of the most prolific technology there is. You know, we work every day with our partners from ICAC task forces uh across the country. We have our uh cybercrime center, uh which is a world leader in that, uh working with our domestic and international partners to take the fight to global networks that proliferate such abuse.

You know, are we vulnerable on the northern border for people that match the terror watch list or that are uh traffickers of of humans uh to come in? I'm sorry, sir, are we vulnerable at the northern border for those types of people to try to enter our country?

We are.

Uh, yield back.

Gentleman yields back. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from California, Mister Correa, for his five minutes of questioning.

Thank you, Mister Chairman. I my ten years in this committee, um, I've had the opportunity to speak with agents of all of your departments, hard-working individuals with a heart. with morality, knowing right from wrong. I can tell you right now, you speak about spirit, doing the job with confidence. Lot of the agents I've talked to in all of your departments are not happy arresting hard-working individuals. They wanna go after the sex offenders, the drug traffickers, the money launderers. And when you put them to arrest people that are working, They don't like it. They've told me that confidentially. These are your workers. Back home, we spent twenty, thirty years winning the confidence of a lot of these individuals that work in our communities so they can report crimes, so they can tell us who the bad actors are. And now when we have situations that when an individual goes to report a crime and they're arrested, You can understand what that does to our communities. Forget about undocumented. Let's talk about American citizens, okay? In my district, and I've asked this of many individuals here, including the secretaries, both of them. What does it take to prove that you're an American citizen so you won't be harassed? What is it that I have to do, do my constituents have to do, with an accent, dark skin, to prove to your agents that you're American citizens, Mister Schneider.

Sir, thank you for the question. If you're a US citizen in this country, you're not required to present any type of uh identification. You can simply say I'm a US citizen.

Mister Holzer.

Uh, I would agree with Mister Schneider.

Mister Kroll.

Same, sir. I would agree with him.

I hope you're training your agents on this because we've had people. that show their blue passport and they're still arrested. I have people, blonde hair, blue eyed, that are arrested. These are the individuals that are witnessing a situation out there. First Amendment right? Should those people be arrested? Should they be taken in, Mister Schneider? Peaceful protest.

Sorry, I mean, I I depending on the situation, uh, you know, we do have the authority on

An observation, nothing else than observation. Like we get observed all the time out there.

Yeah, I would have to take in the totality of the circumstances. We do have the authority under a Supreme Court rule, Terry versus Ohio, nineteen sixty eight. We do have the authority to detain people, to include US citizens, uh, basi- if if they're, they have any ties to a criminal investigation.

If they don't have any an American citizen out there observing, okay? You take their photograph. Facial scanning. Do you put in in a database?

I don't believe so, sir.

Mister Holzer?

Uh, sir, I'm not uh familiar with that process.

Mister Kroll?

No, sir.

Let me ask the question different way. Are HSI, Homeland Security, any of your agencies keeping a database on American citizens that have not been charged with any crime?

Not that I'm aware of, sir. Uh, not that I'm aware of either, sir.

Mr. Holzer. So, Mr. Schneider, how about you?

Barring uh an association with a criminal investigation of criminal arrest?

Again.

No.

No. Then why would your s- your agents essentially say that to American citizens, threatening them, saying we are gonna put your information in a terrorist database?

Yes, sir, I'm not aware of that situation or that occurrence.

Mr. Holzer.

Nor am I aware, sir.

Mister Kroll.

I can't speak to why they would say that.

Yeah, there have been cases like this. And I guess we're gonna disagree on the facts here, but it comes back to another issue, which is the training. I've talked to your agents and I know that the recent hires have not received the same training as those other agents that you've hired for a number of years. You're s- you're so intent on hiring agents, and I - I get it, you need them, but they're not receiving the same training. You bring them in, you tell them, " Go enforce the laws in the interior of this country," and they don't know how to address the rights of an American citizen. I ran out of time, but I would love to talk to you about these issues because this is what my constituent's about. We're not a police state, yet. We don't wanna get there. And for you to do your job, you have to have the cooperation of American citizens. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I yield.

Gentleman yields back. The chair will now recognize the gentleman from Oklahoma, Mister Brueckin, for five minutes of questioning.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, to our witnesses, thank you for your role in securing our borders. Um, fifty year low of uh border crossings at the southern border, we uh pointed this hearing is to talk about uh you know, what vulnerabilities are on the northern border. And during the Biden administration, there was a significant increase of those that would have a commercial driver's license. And in in violation of federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration guidelines, but the states were doing some things to, uh, move around that. Are you seeing, given that the largest, second largest trading partner we have is Canada, are you concerned or seen any issues regarding commercial drivers, lies, non-domiciled drivers that would utilize our northern border uh that could be making us vulnerable uh for any type of attack or activities?

Uh, sir, I'm not uh familiar with any specific instances uh related to that.

Any other panelists?

So what I could say is HSI special agents conduct investigations every day of uh CDL uh licensees you know transportation and logistic networks that are moving drugs, weapons, any contraband. Uh we conduct undercover operations, cabotage investigations. We investigate the schools and and other locations uh that may be training these uh, these CDL drivers uh if they're complicit or uh illicit. uh in uh in providing the training or the CDL licenses themselves.

Mr. Schneider, do you have anything to add? I'm I'm I am curious as to their non-donor side, they have they presented driver's license, Canadian issued. Is there anything anything more we need to be doing as a as a nation to look into that?

Sir, not that I'm aware of, I mean we've worked very closely with HSI with some of the operations that that uh Mister Kroll spoke about. Uh, we do encounter uh these subjects at our check uh at our checkpoints along the southwest border uh however not so much on the northern border.

The Chinese nationalists that were crossing under the Biden administration, how do you assess that threat today? They were crossing the northern border. What is the status of that threat today? I I loved your commentary about the eighty-five percent of your staffing it is securing our border, Mr. Schneider, compared to seventy percent of them having to be involved in the detaining of those who had crossed. So, how is the threat coming from the Chinese nationalists that we're exploiting our northern border?

Sir, thank you for the question. Uh, the Chinese national threat along the no- northern border has dras drastically reduced um because we've been, you know, we have more agents out there on the patrol now, like I, like I

Any other panelists wanna comment?

What I would say, sir, is is Chinese National's uh, you know, deploy a little bit more sophisticated uh approach than than most, whereas they're using visa fraud and other um, other efforts to try to enter the United States, which would normally be through a port of entry. Uh, HSI uses RV's security program and other, um, affiliations and and partnerships with, you know, FBI, Department of State and others to make sure that we're pushing those borders out so we identify those that are a threat to the United States, uh, and stop them before they enter the United States.

And it, both the the my previous questions are in tandem with my last question, and it's about fentanyl and its uh movement across the northern border. Um, what is the uh change in the last couple of years with what we're seeing, whether it be the uh drug itself or precursors?

We're not seeing the level of seizures or cross-border seizures for fentanyl along the northern border. I certainly would defer to my colleagues uh regarding uh fentanyl.

Uh, yes sir, uh Um, likewise, we're not seeing a drastic change across the northern border. In fact, the the most we've seen I think in one area was Blaine, Washington, with about two pounds total uh of of a fend all the bulk majority of what we see is coming across the southwest border.

What I would say is that our work, these are the same cartelists that are, you know, proliferating this poison throughout the United States that are doing the same in Canada. They will do anything they can do to make money. Uh, they will, you know, uh, certainly, you know, push those drugs northbound. Uh, we're doing everything we can to stop them. Uh, obviously Canada is a source location for them, uh, and it's a way for them to make money so they will do anything to get those drugs into Canada.

Mr. Chairman, I yield.

Gentleman yields back. The chair will now recognize the gentleman from uh Rhode Island and the ranking member of the CTI subcommittee Mr. Magaziner for his five minutes of questioning.

Thank you, Chairman. Uh, Director Kroll, how many HSI agents has the Trump administration diverted away from working child exploitation cases to instead work on civil immigration enforcement.

Uh, sir, I I don't have the specific numbers of of HSI agents that have been uh deployed to to specific uh

Okay. You are the Assistant Director of Operations at HSI, yes?

That's correct.

Okay, but you don't know how many of your agents have been taken off child exploitation cases to do immigration enforcement instead.

Not not specifically a number for child exploitation, but what I can say is

Right.

you know, we certainly support uh whether it be our partners at BP.

Well, let let's try this. The New York Times reported last year that under the Trump administration, the second Trump administration, HSI agents worked thirty-three percent fewer hours on child exploitation cases because they had been reassigned to work immigration. Does that number sound plausible to you?

I don't know whether that's thirty-three percent, but it sounds uh somewhat accurate.

They also so it sounds somewhat accurate. Thank you. Uh, they also reported that the number of indictments for child exploitation fell by twenty-eight percent. Now listen, uh, Mr. Kroll, I know that these are not your decisions. Uh, these are coming from the White House, these directives. But understand what this means, everyone. Because every day that a child is being abused is hell for that child. There are children all over America being abused today, praying that today is the day that someone will come and rescue them. But because Stephen Miller and Donald Trump are obsessed, With getting as many immigrants out of the country as possible, HSI has been forced to allow child exploitation cases to languish. Meanwhile, by the Trump administration's own data, the vast majority of people who've been detained or deported in immigration enforcement are people with no criminal record. The rounding up kids, the elderly, grandmas, gardeners. Two days ago they arrested a nun in Texas. people just trying to work and make a living. And now we know that they are pulling HSI agents off of working child exploitation cases to instead go and round up harmless people on immigration charges. And it's not just child exploitation. HSI has been diverting agents away from investigating all kinds of crimes at the direction of the White House. Mister Kroll, how many agents have been reassigned from drugs and and weapons cases? to instead support the immigration purge.

So I don't have the specific number on how many agents.

All right. The New York Times reported last year that the number of illegal weapons seized by HSI dropped by seventy-three percent. Does this number sound accurate to you?

It doesn't.

What do you think it is?

I don't know what the specific percentage is.

All right. Well, I'd I'd like to know what the number is, please, cuz the bottom line is this. The Trump administration is making America less safe. They are pulling people Chief Schneider, last year, a Border Patrol agent named Charles Exum in Chicago rammed a car being driven by a preschool teacher named Miramar Martinez and then shot Miss Martinez five times. After shooting Miss Martinez, he sent text messages to other agents bragging about it. and then drove eleven hundred miles back to his home base in Maine. Now, this case has been widely reported on, especially because Mister Exum and the Trump administration tried to lie and claim that Martinez had rammed Exum's vehicle. But then the release of the body camera footage actually showed the opposite, that he rammed her. But my question for you is this. Why was Agent Exum in Chicago to begin with if his home base, his home station, was in Maine?

Sir, thank you for the question. That was a DHS-led operation. Um, so it was uh, for the US Border Patrol, we did not have any command and control over that, so I can't speak to that.

So, yeah, so the answer is basically that he was one of the thousands of Border Patrol officers who was taken off of his regular duties at the border, and instead sent to invade American cities as part of Operation Midway Blitz in Chicago, and Operation Metro surge in Minneapolis. So this hearing is about securing the northern border. How many Border Patrol officers were taken off of the northern border, uh, and instead sent to Chicago and Minneapolis, roughly?

I will say far less agents, uh, were deployed to the interior of the country,

D- do you have a number?

compared - compared to the last administration.

Do you have a number?

We had - we had hundreds of Border Patrol agents.

How many were So this, okay, I'm gonna reclaim my time. This - this w- Mr. Exum was diverted eleven hundred

Okay.

miles from Maine to Chicago - shot this woman five times. This is making the American people less safe. Chicago is not on the border. Minneapolis is not on the border. Securing the northern border is important. Securing all of our borders is important. We need to focus on that, not these immigration purges that have made American cities less safe. I'll yield back.

Gentleman yields back. The chair will now rec

The gentleman will respond to that or no?

Uh, the gentleman's time is expired, so the uh ch- gentleman yields back, uh the chair will now recognize Biggs from South Carolina for her five minutes of questioning.

Thank you, Chairman Guest, for holding this important hearing on the northern border. Overall border encounters, they're down to historic lows, thanks to the successes of President Trump, CBP and ICE. This is a huge win and I want to thank CBP and ICE for the amazing work they have done in securing the borders. While overall encounters are down, the location of those encounters is shifting. Northern border encounters have more than doubled, from five point nine two percent to thirteen point zero eight percent of all incidents. Drug seizures at the northern border are higher now and two in twenty twenty four, Central American cartels already have operations in Canada. Fentanyl precursors are are brought into North America by the cartels in Vancouver, made into fentanyl and smuggled across the northern border. Our border agents are doing well right now, but we must continue to support operations at the northern border to stay on top of the issue. So my first question, what unique environmental and technical problems exist at the northern border, and how can Congress support border enforcement while considering the unique challenges of the US-Canada border? And um, Mr. Snyder, if you'll answer that.

Ma'am, thank you for the question, and I will tell you I would like to say thank you for the funding, because that is absolutely going to help us address our deficiencies along the northern border. We have a holistic technological national strategy to address our deficiencies on the northern border. Uh, we're leveraging excuse me, leveraging uh autonomous technology that's going to free up our agents, um from monitoring cameras uh in in stations. Uh, our agents will be out there. We're gonna have additional technology, SUAS technology. counter-UAS technology to address the adversarial threat.

So the chairman mentioned uh four thousand miles like geography causing issues. Um, do you have anything to add on that?

Yes, we also have a plan ver- uh modeled very much like what we're doing along the southwest border. Uh, we are going to in certain locations, high threat locations, we're going to we're going to erect some type of infrastructure. and whether it's a a pile of rocks or some type of barrier be to address the the constant threat of vehicles driving across the northern border, we're also going to increase our staffing, along with the technology that I spoke about.

Mister Holzer, do you have anything to add?

Um, yes ma'am, uh, to chief's point, uh, you know, uh, the increase in uh technology on the north on the northern border, uh, with non-interface scanning equipment is is uh phenomenal. Adding to that additional officers to be able to adjudicate

Thank you. So, states like New York, Minnesota, Washington, and Vermont compound the problem because of their sanctuary jurisdiction status. These states are attractive targets for illegal immigrants and smugglers alike because of their non-compliance with federal law and generous welfare programs. My bill, the Mobilizing Against Sanctuary Cities Act, would crack down on state and local jurisdictions. that defy federal immigration authority and ignore ICE detention waivers. So, Mister Schneider, how do sanctuary jurisdictions make the job of ICE and CBP more difficult, especially as the percentage of illicit traffic coming to the northern border increases?

Thank you for the question, ma'am. You know, it's it's a tremendous challenge for us, and I look at it uh I'm very concerned about our agents' safety. So if our agent encounters someone in and around the the border region, um and they wanna run the license plate, they can't do that. They they they're unable in certain parts of the northern border, certain states, whether it's New York with the green light law or or other locations, it it doesn't allow for the agent to know who their vehicle is registered to, and that presents as an officer safety challenge. We've had two shootings uh, or actually three shootings along the northern border, unfortunately one we lost an agent last year um to to a a tragic event. So it is a huge agent safety officer safety concern for us.

Okay, thank you for your input. And Mister Cole, do you have any additional information on that?

I do. HSI special agents are considered immigration um officers under the definition of of most of those sanctuary laws, uh and our agents in in many locations on the Northwest. Uh, the Pacific Northwest and and New England and other areas are restricted from accessing many of the databases uh, that Mister Schneider mentioned.

That's very interesting. Well, thank you very much for your time, and I'll yield back.

Gentlelady yields back. The chair will now recognize the gentlelady from Texas, Miss Johnson, for her five minutes of questioning.

Uh, thank you, Mister Chairman, and it's good to see uh some of you back in front of the committee again. Thank you for being here. Um, Mister McLeod, I have uh some questions to follow up on your statement. Um, you made the statement that DHS doesn't have the capabilities to determine the effectiveness of their effort at the northern border. Could you please expand on that? I'm I'm curious as to why you don't believe that we have the ability to measure the effectiveness of the resources that we're deploying.

Yeah, so in our review we found a a lack of performance metrics in terms of the surveillance and um people being deployed there. uh what are the performance what's the performance of the various technology what's working what's not working um to give a better sense of what's effective and what could be further invested

and why don't we have such a metric in place

uh this is a recommendation that we made to um dhs to implement a performance plan for their

but they haven't implemented it at this time

um they are working on it and we continue to follow up

ok um One of the other questions I have for the panel at large is do you guys feel like you have an adequate budget or do you have surplus funds that you're you just have you're not able to spend that you are exceeding you don't have enough money do you have little too little money or too much money or just enough money

Uh I think w- I think time will tell ma'am I think we have everything earmarked for exactly what we need with regards to infrastructure uh staffing fleet all those things I I think we're we really appreciate the support and we're gonna do great things for this country.

You have a surplus in your budget?

Uh, no.

Okay. So then I'm really concerned then as to why the Trump administration is threatening to take a one billion dollars out of your budget, uh you've all have uh for um to use as a weapon for states that don't comply with election reforms that this administration has. Uh and I think that is irresponsible. uh, for the work that you're doing. I think everyone on this committee believes that we should have a strong border, that we need good border enforcement, and that um, we may have disagreements of some of the aspects of the methodology upon which you do your work, um, but we don't disagree that work is important. Um, and so I find it interesting that you come here on behalf of the administration, um, and but yet the administration uses you, your agencies, the funding for your agencies as a political tool for um elections, saying that if they're gonna take one billion dollars out of your budget um uh for states that don't comply with um their voter fraud routings, do you have extra agents to deploy to election sites throughout this country, sir?

Ma'am, we're laser focused on the border. We have no intention to be at election sites.

Okay, so when the administration says that they're gonna use um, homeland security personnel, border patrol personnel, um, to go to the elections and go to polling locations throughout this country in this upcoming November, uh, you as the acting head are saying that that's not in fact gonna happen.

I have not been told that by my chain of command at all, ma'am.

Okay. And you don't have an extra one billion dollars in your budget, uh, to deflect out of as a weapon to withhold from states and other partner organizations. who refuse to comply with the trump's perceived voter fraud investigations.

I'm not gonna comment on that.

Okay. I think I'm out of time. Thank you very much.

Uh, the gentlelady, is the gentlelady yield back?

Yes.

Gentlelady yields back. At this point, the chair will recognize the gentleman from Virginia, Mister Walkinshaw, for his five minutes of questioning.

Thank you, Mister uh Chairman. Mister Schneider, during this Trump administration, how many CBP personnel have faced disciplinary action related to the use of tear gas or other chemical munitions against children?

Sir, I'm not aware of those statistics, but I'd be happy to get back with you with that information.

Have any faced disciplinary action?

I'm not aware of, as of right now, sir.

So, none.

Oh, I didn't say none. I just I don't I don't know. I'd be happy to.

Okay, that would be a good thing for you to know.

Sure.

Uh, I wan- I wanna thank the chairman and the ranking member for convening the hearing today. This administration has sent minimally trained, heavily armed masked agents into American communities. They've detained and killed American citizens, detonated flashbangs, broken down doors, dragged mothers from their cars, and tear-gassed children. The chaos that began under Secretary Nome persists today under Secretary Mullen's leadership and a recent Pro Publica investigation found that seventy-nine children have had tear gas, pepper spray, other chemical munitions deployed on them by DHS personnel, CBP, and ICE. Now, DHS has defended its use of tear gas against children, claiming to blame lies with the agitators. Not sure if those are the children. In November of twenty twenty five, ICE and CBP agents were found to be deploying tear gas without justification and without warning against people who pose no physical threat. I'll ask you, Mister Holzer, are you aware of any CBP personnel who have faced any disciplinary action as a result of using tear gas or chemical munitions against children.

Uh, no, sir, I'm not aware of any instance where tear gas was used against children.

Okay. Mister Holzer, your agent's use of excessive force has harmed children, toddlers and babies. Made them choke, cough, vomit, develop rashes, and scream in pain. And you might know this. We don't know the long-term consequences to the health of children when toxic tear gas is used against them. You said you weren't aware of instances of tear gas being used against children. Can we play the video, please? Mister Chairman, can we stop the clock until the video plays? Thank you. Need someone to click play.

This is what these terrorists do to babies.

This is mommy, you okay, mama? Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! You okay?

You okay?

Mommy, you okay, mama?

You okay, mama? This is what these terrorists do to babies.

This is mommy, you okay, mama? Hey! Hey! Hey! Hey! You okay, mama? Hey! Hey! You okay, mama! Hey! Hey! Hey!

This is what these terrorists do to babies.

Mommy, you okay, mama? You okay? You okay, mama?

This is what these terrorists do to babies.

Mommy, you okay, mama? You okay? You okay, mama?

Thank you, mister Holzer. Now that you're aware of the tear gas being used against children, do you think any officers or agents should face disciplinary actions? because of decisions like that. Now that you're aware. You weren't aware before. Now you're aware.

I'm not aware what that situation was. I can say that any any uh allegations of misuse of force are investigated uh thoroughly?

So you're both coming here today through the leadership of CBP and you don't know, you can't answer whether a single officer has faced any disciplinary action as a result of these seventy-nine times Chemical munitions have been used against children. You don't know. Can either of you tell me what CBP's policy is with respect to chemical munitions being used against small children, the written policy? Whichever one of you wants to address it.

It should be avoided? Mm-hmm.

CBP's policy says officers " should not use pepper spray or quote " less lethal chemical munitions against small children", yet they continue to do it. And they face no repercussions. Gentlemen, can you commit to me to go back, find out whether a single CBP agent, officer, personnel has faced any disciplinary action as a result of using tear gas and chemical munitions against children. Will you come back to me in the committee? With that information.

Yes, sir.

Thank you, Mister Chairman. I yield back.

Gentleman yields back. The chair will now recognize the gentlelady from Illinois, Miss Ramirez, for her five minutes of questioning.

Thank you, Chairman. Watching that video is very difficult because that's my city. And I know uh what the impact of a city that has been terrorized in the way that it has through mid-wave blitz feels like. people are still dealing with the impact. Look, whether it's on the border or in the city of Chicago, for DHS, the threat isn't bound to a destination. Be frank for authoritarians, threat will always be a demographic. You saw that demographic up there. So this hearing to me isn't really about threats to the northern border. Today's hearing is yet another attempt for my colleagues to use defending our national security in order to define a public enemy, immigrants, children. criminalize, scapegoat and dehumanize them, solve fear and distrust, surveil and violate our rights and liberties, and then detain and brag about deporting families. When they say threats at the border, national security and terrorist, we know why these words are specifically being used. They were used in Minnesota when two US citizens were killed. It's been more than a year and I continue to watch parents in my district separated from their high school aged children, with cancer, not once, twice. Constituents of protections like DACA and U visa, applicants illegally detained. Eighth graders with autism in my district, held in Delhi for months, told at the detention center that if he ever wants to see his mom again, she should go and turn herself in and they'd go together to Columbia. And constituents, as you just heard from my colleague, pepper sprayed outside of schools and in that case, outside of a Walmart. All in the name of security. Well, let's be honest. None of this protects our communities. None of this makes us safe. If in fact does anything, it actually creates fear all over the country. This administration has demonstrated it will use our hard-earned tax dollars to terrorize our communities to fund violations of our rights and hand out subsidies to the ultra-wealthy corporations that are profiting from the suffering of our constituents. Trump, Miller, Holman. They're willing to weaponize the government against its own people to ensure that anyone who gets in their way, including that child, ends up sad, pepper sprayed, detained, deported, or dead. But let me be frank, we're gonna continue to bring this up in every single committee because we have to hold them accountable. Mister Hoxher, we know that nearly three thousand eight hundred immigrants were detained in the Chicago area during the terror of Operation Medway Blitz. Nearly two thousand five hundred people were deported, including a hundred and sixty-two children. The New York Times reported that on average, eighteen hundred arrests are still happening right now per month in Chicago. Local reports suggest that there have been thirty-nine abductions in Chicagoland between June twenty-second and June twenty-eight. My question to you, Mister Holster, is how many CBP officers assisted ice during operation midway blitz.

I don't have the exact number in in front of me, but we certainly could take that back too. I'll get that for you.

Thank you, I appreciate that. I'll put that on the record, you'll bring that back. Um, uh let me ask a follow-up so that we have it on the record as well. How many CBP officers are assisting ice in Chicago now? Do you have that number?

Uh, none ma'am.

Incredibly important to have that information as soon as possible.

Yes, ma'am.

Mister Schneider, five days before Marimar Martinez was shot five times by Border Patrol Agent Charles Exum CBP's open source intelligence team tagged her as a threat, based on a social media post. Disseminated her photo and information to all of the mid-wave blitz personnel and used DHS databases to confirm her identity. My question to you, Mister Schneider is, was the CBP open source intelligence team systematically monitoring social media accounts of people participating in protests during midway blitz, yes or no?

Ma'am, that was a DHS-led operation by the former secretary. I I was not involved in that operation no at all.

But you worked for DHS.

It was not in the command and control of the US Border Patrol. Uh, I have no information on that specific incident.

So you also don't know how many individuals were tagged as threats like Marimar Martinez.

Uh, can you repeat the question? I can hear.

The second part of that was how many individuals, in addition to Marimar, were tagged as threats like Mati Mat Martinez. You're saying you don't have that because I was with the previous secretary, but DHS is still DHS, and whether it was one secretary or the other, you were still working for DHS under the previous secretary, correct?

If you're talking specifically about the the operation in Chicago last year, that was a DHS led operation. I had no involvement, the US Border Patrol had no involvement other than temporary assigned agents to that uh

Including Bovino, correct?

Uh, yes, former retired Chief Bobino was signed up.

Yeah. Correct, but he was there under DHS and you all worked for DHS. Look, ju just to wrap up. We don't get answers and that's part of the problem here, and so I do hope that everything that's on the record in terms of follow-up we do in fact get and I know that uh we're gonna work with the chairman to ensure that happens, and our ranking members. With that, I yield back.

The gentlelady yields back. The chair will now recognize the gentleman from New York, Mister Kennedy, for his five minutes of questioning.

Thank you, Chairman. As the only member of this committee located directly on the northern border, and the co-chair of the bipartisan Northern Border Caucus, it's good to be here today to discuss challenges specific to my community of Buffalo, New York, and across the northern border. My district alone encompasses miles of maritime and land border with Canada. So I understand firsthand the importance of both strengthening partnerships with Canadian law enforcement and ensuring this administration's extreme immigration enforcement agenda does not harm the seamless trade and travel that has always been so critical to Western New York, and our nation's prosperity. This symbiotic relationship is extraordinarily important. Every single day, a hundred and sixteen million dollars in merchandise goes across the Western New York border, and billions of dollars of merchandise flows across the northern border expanse. So we stand to lose when this administration diverts resources, harms diplomatic relationships with Canada, stifles lawful trade, and surges, surges agents into Western New York to terrorize our communities. Unfortunately, Buffalo has experienced all of these challenges because of misguided priorities at the White House. Tomorrow is July first, Canadian Independence Day, a time of year when Western New Yorkers travel to Canada to visit family and vacation, and vice versa. Yet booths at US ports of entry in the north are empty, in part because this administration has diverted hundreds of CBP officers to conduct interior immigration enforcement. So, Mr. Holzer, since January twenty twenty five, how many CBP officers who staff Buffalo sector ports of entry have been diverted away from their jobs to conduct immigration enforcement work?

Uh, sorry, I want to break down. in front of me of how many from each uh location, but as of May uh we are no longer supporting any interior operations.

Okay, can you give a follow-up uh in writing please?

Absolutely, sir.

Okay, also um according to ICE disclosures obtained by Cato Institute, over three thousand CBP OFO personnel were diverted from assisting lawful trade and travel to helping ICE with enforcement back in August of twenty twenty five. So I'd like to see how those numbers add up to twen- August of twenty five, and then how they've changed, if at all, since.

Ten four, so that number's very, very high.

And right now.

I can tell you that.

Mm.

And so what happens when Northern Border Ports of Entry lack officers to facilitate lawful trade and travel and what's the impact on communities and small businesses, Mister Holzer?

Um, we don't particularly track the the impact to the communities. We track that typically in in a wait time, sir. And and we've maintained solid wait times across the northern and southern borders, as well as our uh airports in that time.

Well, thank you. I can tell you communities like mine suffer, and others across the northern border, particularly and specifically directly on the border. There are tens of thousands of jobs. There are uh binational residents. There are communities that depend upon this cross-border commerce. And we have heard of wait times backed up, as I'm sure you know this information. as long as two hours plus that just stifles trade it stifles the economy on both sides of the border and certainly it impacts our economy here in the united states abroad um so i would i would just ask for that in writing specifically how though those officers have been pulled and where they've been pulled when and the impact on the northern border um uh access Uh, next, Mister Schneider, earlier this month when Secretary Mullen appeared before this committee, I asked him if the name Nirulish Amin Shah Alam meant anything to him. Sadly sadly until I reminded him of the preventable tragedy. It did not. Are you familiar with this case?

Sir, if you're referring to the case where the the subject assaulted two Buffalo police officers, yes, I'm familiar.

Thank you. For those who are unfamiliar, Mister Shah Alam, a Rhinger FUG was found dead on the streets of Buffalo on February twenty fourth, twenty twenty six after being released by US Border Patrol custody just days before. His family wasn't informed of his release, nor was his attorney. His death has since been ruled a homicide, a tragedy that shook our community, our state, our nation, the global community. It's not the first instance of a detainee passing away following release from DHS. Um there have been bone chilling similarities to Nirul Amin Shah Alam's case. Mister Schneider, is there a particular reason why it's not current policy for US Border Patrol to notify family members or an attorney when someone's released from custody?

Yeah, sorry, I'm very familiar with that case, and I can tell you that that subject was in our custody for roughly two hours and forty five minutes. Uh, we communicated with him well through language services. He requested, once we determined that he was in fact, he had legal status. Uh, we uh asked him if we he would we would l- if he would like us to take us to his home, and he requested to be go to a coffee shop and be dropped off at a Tim Hortons. That was open.

There is an open investigation happening within uh your office?

Yes, sir.

Okay.

And I'm confident that uh it'll it'll uh it'll bring the facts forward.

It's my understanding, Chairman, that uh with this open case uh I've heard a lot of information here from you today, Mister Schneider. that is uh not accurate so we will wait to hear the the the the case facts thank you I yield back

Gentleman yields back the chair will now recognize the gentleman from Texas Mr. Green for his five minutes of questioning.

Thank you Mister Chairman I thank the ranking members and associate myself with the comments of the ranking member of the full committee Mister Thompson and have a question that i would ask mister kroll about uh mister kroll does hsi's participation in joint task force like the joint terrorism task force fall under your purview your jurisdiction

uh that would fall under domestic operations in our national security division yes sir

yes ok thank you and um staff has been informed that hsi is supporting the fbi s inter-agency anti-government violent extremism task force. Um, and I would ask you, sir, under what authority is HSI supporting this task force that is focused on purely domestic extremist threats?

Uh, sir, we follow National Security Presidential Memor- Memorandum seven, uh, and it's the joint mission center that is, uh, that we are co-located with the FBI, um, related to that.

And uh will the findings be made available to members of the committee?

I'm sorry, sir, what findings would those be?

If you're investigating, I assume that at some point you'll have some conclusions.

Uh the focus of of NSPM seven is to identify those that are rioters, agitators, those that are Antifa-based and and are significant threats. Um

Do y- do you consider Antifa Uh, an organization.

I do.

Not an idea.

Correct.

And uh, the the organization has a head, I take it.

I'm sorry?

The organization has a head, I take it. There's someone who heads Antifa.

Uh, not that I'm aware of.

It has a governing body.

I don't have that information, sir.

Huh. Alright, well let's go to something else. Um, Mrs. Snyder, um, do you uh have a code of ethics? The people that work with you, the members of your organization, is there a code of ethics?

Absolutely, sir. We have our core values, agency core values. US Border Patrol has uh honor first.

Honor first. And uh, does this code of ethics allow the persons who are engaged in various activities to um boast about the things that they do, do they talk in the locker room about how they've hurt people and uh they've done some harm to people, is that a part of the code, would the code allow that?

I'm not aware of any uh any of that uh that y- that you're sharing, sir.

But if if it occurs, would it be in breach of your code of ethics?

i don't have a opinion on that sir

you don't have an opinion as to what breaches your code of ethics

well i'm not not really understanding your question you're talking about

well

people talking about in a locker room

if someone if someone in the locker room talks sure if someone talks about how he

did you give me a specific place

shot someone and um and brags about how five shots five holes became more than five would that would that be in breach of your code of ethics

What I will say, uh, if that in fact did happen, there is a process in place and and that will be reported, um, and then it would be properly investigated, if in fact that is true.

Would that uh uh investigation uh yield results that would be made known to members of the committee?

I believe so, I believe uh the Office of Professional Responsibility uh in a s- in a situation like that that would that would be public.

Well, I'm sure you read the newspapers and you're aware of what happened to Miss Martinez.

I I know a little bit about it, sir, yes.

Yeah, well, and and you know that uh she was shot.

Yeah, again, as I stated earlier, that was a DHS led operation, so I I I'm not privy to any of the detailed information of the investigation.

But I understand, you're not privy to those details, but based upon your intelligence and your reading, you know that she was shot.

Uh, based on what I saw on the on on uh the open source media.

Yes, ok, well that's good enough. You do you generally uh accept some of what you see on the open source media is correct and true?

Uh, no, not at all, sir.

Not a nothing you see on open source, you Well, it's when they commend you for the great things that you've done, you've you uh discount that, I take it.

Uh, I I don't know about that, sir.

Uh, I see. Only the good things. Well listen, here's my point. Uh, I would like to know what happened to the officer who boasted to other officers about how he shot an unarmed citizen and noted that he was able to shoot her X number of times and get more holes than he actually shot, seems seems like it's five and seven that's in question. But uh I'd like to know what happened. Can you help me and get me some information on that?

I don't have that information, but it's still under investigation by the Office of Professional Responsibility, but I'd be happy to uh uh, you know, at the conclusion of their investigation, uh, work with the committee to share that.

I would, I would h- have you do so. Uh, that would be a benefit. Thank you. I yield back.

Gentleman yields back. At this time the time for questioning has expired. Uh, to our witnesses on behalf of myself and the ranking member, uh, we again want to thank you for participa- for participating in this hearing. Uh, the members of the committee may have additional questions, uh, for the witnesses. And we would ask the witnesses to respond uh to these questions in writing, uh pursuant to committee rule seven E. Uh, the hearing record will be held open for ten days. Anything, Mister Ranking Ripper?

Yeah, Mister Chairman, I'd like a unanimous consent to insert into the record some of these articles.

Uh, without objection, the articles will be submitted for the record.

First first one, Sister Letty, a Texas nun taken by ICE while walking to Sunday Mass.

Without objection.

New York Times article shows the Department of Homeland Security's efforts to combat crimes have actually weakened under pressure to arrest more immigrants.

Without objection.

Guardian, which tells the story of a US citizen who was aggressively questioned by ICE, even after showing proof of citizenship.

Without objection.

Brookings Institute, which shows that ICE's new surveillance techniques are raising concerns about privacy.

Without objection, all four documents will be entered into the record.

Thank you.

Uh, seeing nothing further than without objection, the committee stands adjourned.