Budget Hearing - Department of Commerce

yeah good morning subcommittee will be in order without objection the chair is authorized to declare a recess at any time i would like to welcome everyone to this uh hearing. Also want to uh welcome a new member to the Appropriations Committee. And to CJS, Representative Jefferson Shreve. Welcome, sir.

Thank you, Mister Chairman.

I know he will be a strong voice for Indiana on the committee. First one in the last uh is it forty years?

Thirty.

Yeah. And we look forward to working together.

Likewise.

Thank you to our subcommittee members and to Secretary Letnick for joining us to discuss the Department of Commerce fiscal year twenty seven budget request. The request for the Department of Commerce totals nine point two billion dollars, uh, a one point eight billion dollar or sixteen five percent decrease from the uh current level. The request reiterates and builds on the budget the President submitted to Congress last year. He seeks to reinforce and expand on efforts to counter the strong-armed trade tactics of China and refocuses the department's trade activities on investments that create jobs in america and protect national security the department of commerce uh has a wide-ranging portfolio uh it must level an international trade land uh uh landscape tilt it against america foster economic growth conduct uh weather research and response and produce statistics about our nation uh and the economy. These responsibilities are bound together by the common goal of ensuring American prosperity. Its investments and resources are invaluable to uh rural communities like my district in eastern Kentucky. From NOAA's weather forecasters, who provide severe weather warnings when the seconds count, to eda s essential work to grow economic opportunity and the bead programs expansion of uh of high speed reliable broadband to rural areas opening opportunities and improving lives the department's vital mission requires strong leadership and strong strong uh oversight. I would like to uh note that the committee only just this week received the department's complete fiscal year twenty-six spend plans and detailed budget request documents for fiscal year twenty-seven. Additionally, the department must ensure response to written questions

thank you mister chairman and i want to join you in welcoming thank you mister chairman and i want to join you in welcoming secretary lucknit back to this commit subcommittee and also welcome our new member on the subcommittee mister shreve at a time when american families are struggling with the high cost of gas groceries housing and other essentials the trump administration is proposing a commerce budget that would make things worse the fiscal year twenty seven budget request would hurt american jobs small businesses and economically distressed communities by completely eliminating economic development administration grants and gutting the ita s efforts to expand us exports the administration is once again proposing to zero out the manufacturing extension partnership program which helps small and medium sized us manufacturers create and preserve us manufacturing jobs it also is again proposing to defund the minority business development agency after attempting to illegally shut it down. And the administration is proposing to rescind all of the remaining funding for the digital equity program, which congress appropriated on a bipartisan basis to help veterans, seniors, rural communities, and people with disabilities afford and make full use of high speed internet. The American economy and hardworking Americans are getting squeezed. yet at the same time secretary lutnick's own family has greatly benefited from many of the deals that have been arranged by the commerce department over the past year according to a new york times investigation in november never in modern us history has the office of the secretary of commerce intersected so broadly and deeply with the financial interests of the commerce secretary's own family furthermore the commerce department has been plagued by mismanagement over the past year beginning with the damage done by elon musk's doge last year secretary lutnick you told the subcommittee that no weather service meteorologists were fired when in fact many meteorologists were fired we learned in a hearing before this subcommittee last month that the department of the national weather service still have not backfilled all of the national weather service's front-line staff positions that were so needlessly lost last year the department's responsiveness or lack thereof to this committee has also been concerning more than ten months after our subcommittee submitted questions for the record following the secretary's last appearance we still have received no answers the department also failed to submit its fiscal year twenty six spend plan in accordance with the legal deadline as all of the spend plans were four or more weeks late and we only this week received spend plans for the department's largest bureau NOAA and for the minority business development agency which were legally due to our appropriations committee, a month and a half ago. The department's fiscal year twenty seven budget justification documents were also late in being publicly released. All of these delays are completely unacceptable and obstruct our committee's ability to conduct oversight and to make informed decisions about federal budget on behalf of the american people finally i was disturbed to learn from disclosures in the epstein files that secretary lutnick had personal and business interactions with jeffrey epstein for years after epstein was registered as a sex offender secretary lutnick previous claimed that he cut ties with mister epstein in O five but the epstein files show the secretary took a trip to epstein's private island in twenty twelve four years after epstein's conviction for solicitation of prostitution from a minor the secretary's dishonesty caused him to question the truthfulness of other statements he has made to congress on the record the american people deserve honesty from those with the privilege of holding public office and i will say once again that the survivors of jeffrey epstein's horrific crimes deserve truth accountability and justice I look forward to the secretary's testimony and to answers to the many questions that my colleagues and I have. Thank you and I yield back.

Yeah. Thank you, Miss Ming. Uh, I'd like now to recognize the ranking member of the full committee, Miss Norrell.

Thank you very much, uh, Mister Chairman and Ranking Member Meng, uh, for covering, uh, uh, convening this hearing today, and thank you, Secretary Leipzig, for being here and listen to your testimony and have a good uh back and forth and give and take and to questioning um from where i'm sitting it is difficult to view the trump administration's trade policy as anything short of disastrous the president ignited a global economic crisis by imposing significant taxes on american consumers without any thought to whom they were taxing or why they were imposing these taxes uh in the first place. In case my colleagues have forgotten, in April of last year, the president announced he was imposing a ten percent tariff on almost every country in the world, including a group of volcanic islands that are populated not by people, but by penguins. This would be amusing, if not for the fact that this lazy and haphazard application of tariffs has had such a harmful effect on American consumers. Data from the Yale Budget Lab found that the president's trade war increased the cost food for the American families by seventeen hundred dollars throughout twenty twenty five. Minor changes in our trade deficit are called comfort to anyone who has to pay attention to the price of groceries. Although I understand there are not many people in the president's cabinet who fall into this category. If the purpose of implementing these tariffs and price hikes on consumers was to promote US job growth, it failed. US economy created less than six hundred thousand jobs in twenty twenty five. In twenty twenty four, before the president took office and put these tariffs in place, that number was two million. When all was said and done, at the end of twenty twenty five, unemployment was up And the economy had the worst year for job growth since twenty twenty, the last year of President Trump's prior turn. Earlier this year, we learned that the tariffs the president chose to charge American consumers were not only ill-advised, but also illegal, according to the Supreme Court. And now, after charging higher prices because of these illegal tariffs, American companies are trying to get their money back from the government. American consumers, on the other hand, working families who are struggling to keep up with the rising cost of living, they get no relief. I've introduced legislation, the Tariff Relief for Consumers Act, to ensure that refund dollars provide relief for consumers and small businesses and do not simply line the pockets of large corporations and other importers. The American people are fed up with this administration's gross mismanagement of the economy. A poll released earlier this week, an associated press poll, found that seventy percent of Americans disapprove of the president's handling of the economy while only thirty percent approve. Mister Secretary, I appreciate that you are here today to tout what you believe the administration's accomplishments on trade and the economy are. But seven in ten Americans are not buying. what this administration is selling. Given the increasingly dire economic outlook, I would have thought that the Trump administration would look to shore up its domestic economic programs, to find ways to pull us out of this hole that they have been digging. Unfortunately, the president's budget request does not does just the opposite. The administration is proposing to eliminate all Economic Development Administration grants, claw back another sixty three million dollars in grant funding, that was already approved in this body on a bipartisan basis. The EDA helps create jobs, especially in rural areas. From two thousand eighteen to two thousand twenty-four, the EDA created or retained more than seven hundred and twenty-seven thousand jobs and spurred more than eighty billion dollars in private investment. I know I do not need to sell you on the Economic Development Administration, uh, Mister Secretary, given that during your confirmation hearing, you expressed support for the program and said that you intended to maintain it. The President's budget also proposes eliminating the Manufacturing Extension Partnership program, which is designed to help small and medium-sized American manufacturers grow, creating more jobs and stimulating local economies. I thought the whole point of the trade war was to support American manufacturing. It has obviously failed in that respect, so why eliminate a long-standing program that actually helps solve the problem. It does not make any sense. You've eliminated the Minority Business Development Agency, and again in your confirmation testimony, you assured it, uh you did not support dismantling this program. Currently there is a permanent injunction blocking the implement implementation, but still the administration proposes the elimination of the Minority Business Development Agency. You cut funds for the International Trade Administration. The administration proposal is clawing back a total of more than two point three billion dollars from funding under the Commerce Department. In addition to the EDA, the administration is proposing to rescind funding that was passed, I want to repeat, we passed as an appropriations committee, Democrats, Republicans, House and Senate. We appropriated this money. It was part of the bipartisan infrastructure law. as well as clawing back money and rescinding funding for operations, research and facilities at NOAA. Lastly, the President's request proposes cutting the budget for the Office of the Inspector General at the Commerce Department by ten million dollars, more than a fifth of their current funding. We have seen how officials in this administration have exploited the public trust for private gain. It is deeply concerning to see that the Internal Oversight Office's charge of preventing waste, fraud and abuse, is being defunded under this budget. The American people should have faith that government officials are working in their interest and are not just out to make a quick buck for themselves. I look forward to hearing your testimony and again the your answers to our questions. Uh thank you very much for being here, Mister Secretary, I thank the Chairman and I yield back.

Thank you, Mister Laurel. I would now like to recognize our witness. secretary butlik for an opening statement uh without objection your written statement will be entered into the record uh mr. secretary we're delighted to have you with us this is your official congressional oversight subcommittee

yes

uh we wanna be helpful to you in your duties uh and we wanna know some answers that we all have. So, Mr. Secretary, thank you for being here. The floor is yours.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, and thank you for having me here. Um, thank you, uh, Representative Meng, uh, and the members of the subcommittee. Uh, I appreciate you having me here today, and, and welcome, uh, and welcome. Over the past fifteen months, President Trump has proven that the American economy is the strongest and most resilient in the world. When businesses look for the place to expand, manufacturing, they drive innovation and they hire more workers, they are decisively choosing the United States. Micron, for example, two hundred billion dollar investment in memory semiconductor manufacturing in Idaho, upstate New York and Virginia. TSMC's one hundred and sixty five billion dollar advanced manufacturing investment in america's semiconductor logic sector texas instrument sixty billion dollar investment for seven us semiconductor fabs across three manufacturing mega sites texas and utah are just a few examples of the trump administration's commitment to driving semiconductor investment and bringing jobs back to the united states i could spend our entire time together listing the record-setting commitments company after company and industry after industry have made to build an America. Trillions of dollars of capital investment are pouring into America, led by President Trump and the United States Department of Commerce. I'm proud of the leadership role the Department of Commerce has played in providing the support and encouragement these businesses need to revive American manufacturing, and we have only just begun. Over the fair past few months alone. The Department of Commerce has announced multiple fifteen billion dollar plus record-setting critical energy investments across this country from Pennsylvania, and Georgia, to Texas and Tennessee. It will accelerate economic growth, ensure US energy dominance, bolster critical supply chains, and strengthen US national and economic security. In addition to the massive historic trade agreements with Korea and Taiwan, the impressive five hundred and fifty billion dollar trade deal with japan has announced six projects in the past six months which include forty billion dollars for small modular reactors in tennessee and alabama a thirty three billion dollar nine point two gigawatt natural gas fired facility in ohio seventeen billion dollar natural gas fired power generation hub in southwest pennsylvania and sixteen billion dollars for natural gas in east texas that goes on top of two billion dollars for deep water crude oil export terminal in the gulf of america and six hundred million dollars for a critical high pressure high temperature synthetic diamond grid facility in georgia just last month secretary right and i were in southern ohio to break ground on that nine point two gigawatt natural gas facility this project will develop the largest natural gas facility in history it'll lower electricity costs across the region, create thousands and thousands of American jobs, strengthen our national security, and help the US meet the energy needs of our future. Beyond these historic investments, the Department of Commerce continues to work around the clock to implement President Trump's America First trade policy. Under section two three two, the Commerce Department is taking action on steel, aluminum, copper, pharmaceuticals, autos, semiconductors, and investigating other sectors to protect re-shore and revive manufacturing. These actions have led to multi-billion dollar commitments to re-shore steel and aluminum manufacturing and restore American excellence in critical industries. In the first year of his second term, President Trump has dramatically reduced the trade deficit, lowering imports and increasing exports. Exports went to three point four trillion dollars, which is a six percent increase from twenty twenty four. And in twenty twenty five, the trade deficit was the lowest we've seen. in sixteen years i'm proud of the role i played in negotiating our most important trade agreement including the largest deal ever done which was our trade deal and investment deal with the european union dis is working hand-in-hand with the department of health and human services we've arranged historic agreements to lower drug prices for american consumers negotiating most favored nation deals and ensuring americans pay the lowest prices for innovative medicines. As a result of these deals, additionally, we have secured over four hundred billion dollars in commitments to reassure pharmaceuticals and manufacturing in America, those key pharmaceuticals. The budget includes a two hundred and fifteen million dollar increase to BIS above the twenty twenty-six enacted level which support the hiring of hundreds of new special agent law enforcement officials to address the theft of american technological leadership by bad actors these officers are critical to protecting and defending america's innovation in ita we are driving record foreign direct investment cracking down on harmful foreign trade practices and supporting our one point three million american jobs with export and investment deals in twenty twenty five ita helped boeing webtech and other major american companies secure a record two hundred and forty four billion dollars in contracts with foreign public buyers. This exceeds the seventeen billion that the Biden administration did in its first year. The budget includes a ten million dollar increase to the twenty twenty six enacted level for trade enforcement and ITA and a hundred million dollars for the United States Investment Accelerator. The budget slashes unnecessary wasteful spending and NIST and other groups' and eliminates the manufacturing extension partnership which i'm sure we will talk about at the uspto we are rapidly modernizing and leveraging technology to cut classification prep dramatically we want to get rid of the massive backlog that we had and do a much better job and finally we have launched a new era of modernization of noah where we are in the process of transferring the agency's it system from a decades old hard-wired technology to the modern distributed cloud. This update will improve our forecasting capabilities, transform the way our forecasters do their jobs, and will make Americans safer. The budget also includes a hundred and thirty five million dollar increase to the twenty twenty six enacted level for NOAA shipbuilding and our improvement of unmanned systems programs. For far too long our nation was mired in status quo, leaving American consumers and producers alike with unfair, poorly implemented trade deals, outsourced jobs, and poultry investments that failed to meet our country's potential. President Trump is committed to ushering in a golden age of domestic commerce and bringing jobs back to the United States, and that's exactly what he's done in his first fifteen months of this administration. I look forward to working with you as the department continues to spur economic growth and secure unprecedented prosperity for the American people. thank you mr. chairman for having me here today

thank you mr. secretary we will now proceed under the five minute rule for questions uh i will begin uh by recognizing myself mr. secretary the request for the bureau of industry and security which is instrumental to the nation's export control system seeks to nearly double the size of the bureau's annual appropriation how would this historic investment help counter china

thank you mister chairman bis is the front line and our key defense from china trying to get our best chips our best technology which we have export controls and we don't allow them to get but if we don't have the law enforcement officials and we can't stop them then they'll find their way around our rules and so we want to significantly grow our law enforcement special agents at bis and their returns are remarkable i know on the budget we talk about expense But these agents bring between three and ten times their revenue annually in fines. Not only do they stop these companies, but then we fine these companies and make way, way more revenue for the United States of America.

Yeah.

And and but that budget is two sides, right? The revenue is not part of my budget, just the expense. But I want you to know these agents are massively economically and intellectually important. to the united states

on this topic how is the department using its export control authority to prevent sensitive us technologies from ending up in the hands of our adversaries

we use at bis our export control to make sure that our the countries of concern and and countries that are our adversaries cannot get our best technology. We don't want them to get our best chips. We don't want them to get our best software. We want to make sure that we, who are the innovator in the world, remain far in the lead. And so this group is the front line that holds those back. And we continuously discuss across this administration each and every product work together as an administration to make sure that those countries are not getting our best technology and innovations.

How is uh BIS partnering with other law enforcement uh agencies?

We work extremely well with customs and border patrol. Right, that is a key place. DHS is very close with us, the FBI. very close with us the doj we just had a huge criminal action where a a company was a large company was trying to uh ship billions of dollars of our best chips to china and they were arrested together with doj so we work very closely with law enforcement these are the intellectual law enforcement agents of the us government they're in bis They have badges and guns, but they work closely with other law enforcement to make sure those who are trying to steal our best can't get away with it.

Let me talk with you briefly about the important work of EDA in rural communities like mine. The assistance to coal communities supports areas negatively impacted by changes in the coal economy. I've seen the devastation that a local economic downturn can cause to a small community and the positive impact that economic development program have in the aftermath uh to support recovery and foster economic growth. sure

i i think the uh the coal program um can can and is very important and we can help these communities you know the the trump administration just announced a deal in pennsylvania to open uh two very large coal mines we are very pro clean beautiful coal as as you know the eda has significant appropriations and i will make sure to get that money out the door efficiently effectively and with deep consideration if you appropriate it i will make sure and our department will make sure we do it as smart and efficiently as possible prior administrations sat on these that is not this department this department will have the appropriated money that you have given us for eda smartly efficiently and effectively out the door by the end of this year

ntia under your leadership was able to refocus the broadband equity access and deployment program on maximizing taxpayer value kentucky was uh allocated one point one billion dollars under the program and had plans approved for about four hundred million dollars to expand broadband access. When will NTIA provide Kentucky guidance on eligible users for the remaining seven hundred million?

For the bead program, uh, Congress had allocated forty two billion dollars. when i walked in the door and you had a set of rules on who to cover for all each state and their and their teams were amazing the working with the states was amazing and working with kentucky was very impressive your team did a great job what but they were only going to give it to fiber and spend all forty two billion dollars in a one size fits all model which made no sense you had some people were hundred and fifty thousand dollar fiber run to a house that was worth a hundred thousand dollars. It was crazy. So we re-bid it without any technological limitations. If it's satellite, if it's, you know, fixed wireless, if it's fiber, whatever's best. And we executed the plan for twenty one billion dollars, exactly according to the statute. Half the money. So we now have a high class problem. We have twenty, we have executed what you wanted to do exactly right. for twenty one billion dollars and we have twenty one billion remaining so here's what we did we went on a listening tour we had over a thousand people gave us hundreds and hundreds of comments we're sorting through those hundreds of comments we're gonna come out with a plan for the high class problem of having absolutely executed the model that you gave us to go out and now do new and exciting things with that money in the model of the statute that you've given us.

Thank you, sir. Ms. May?

Thank you, Mister Chairman, um, and first before I begin my question I just wanna say that it's great to hear that you Mister Secretary and the Trump Administration uh is continuing the great investments that were made into our domestic uh chips manufacturing started by the Biden uh administrate Biden Harris Administration um whether it's TSMC uh micron texas instruments um billions were invested during the biden administration uh and i was grateful as a new yorker to see the uh investments in micron in in my home and your home state uh of new york uh we were so thrilled to welcome uh presidential biden um to announce them during his administration um but i do wanna start mr. secretary um i mentioned in my opening statement that we had learned in recent months that contrary to your earlier statement in which you suggested that you had cut off all contact with epstein in O five you and your family had in fact had lunch with mister epstein on a boat during a trip to his private island in twenty twelve and exchanged business emails with him as recently as twenty eighteen um this was years after his two thousand and eight conviction for soliciting prostitution from a minor uh just wanted to ask why did you publicly claim following your nomination that you were never in a room with him after two thousand and five

so i voluntarily agreed in less than two weeks to sit with your colleagues in the house and answer any and all questions on this topic i have nothing to hide and i'm glad to answer their questions whatever questions you have on this topic i will be glad to answer it's in less than two weeks and we've set aside the time to do that and i will answer all the questions so whatever questions you have if you would give them to the your colleagues i will answer them but today i am here to testify about the budget i have set aside voluntarily the time to answer those questions in less than two weeks so today i am here to testify about the budget

no i appreciate that and will definitely make sure that uh that message and offer is emphasized um when when senator van hollen in february asked if you would be willing to share any records that you have um you told him that you would surely talk about that you had nothing to hide you know what if anything have you done since that hearing to ensure that you are sharing all of your records um and yeah

i've set aside in less than two weeks the time that the your house colleagues want to have me answer these questions i am here to testify about the budget but i have set aside voluntarily the time to answer these questions and as you correctly have said i i've nothing to hide

ok i i just you know why i'm asking is because our american public deserves honesty and accountability from those of us who have the privilege of holding public office this is a budget hearing but it's also about our american taxpayers money um the survivors of epstein and his associates horrific crimes deserve so much better from uh this government um i do wanna use the rest of my time to ask about uh the gold card visa program uh president trump directed you in coordination with the secretary of state and homeland to establish a gold card visa program as you know people who are able to pay at least one million dollars as you know people who are able to pay at least one million dollars

uh the process was recently uh resolved with uh dhs who runs the program and they do a fifteen thousand dollar the most serious vetting and analysis of any amazing potential applicant in the history of government usually with six hundred dollars these pay fifteen thousand for an extraordinary vet so they have approved recently one person and there are hundreds in the queue that they are going through the process but this is a new program and they've just set it up and they wanted to make sure they did it perfectly and so we've worked through that but it's a dhs program uh done with a rigorous rigorous vetting

ok and and do do you know how the department would intend to spend the billions of dollars in the gift account

that will be determined by the administration and and it's terms are for the betterment of the united states of america needs to be for commerce and the betterment of the united states of america

ok thank you mister chairman i yield back

thank you mr. mayor Uh, Mr. Alford.

Well, thank you, Mr. Uh, Chairman. Thank you, Ranking Member Ming and our Ranking Member of our full committee. Good to see you.

Yes, sir.

Um, and thank you, Secretary, for being here today. You know, we depend on the Department of Commerce to play a central role in supporting America in competitiveness through weather forecasting, uh, standard development, trade enforcement, and economic development in communities all over our great nation. The fiscal year twenty-seven proposal reflects the administration's effort to streamline operations to prioritize core missions and to make sure that taxpayer resources are focused where they can have the greatest impact. With proposed budget adjustments across NOAA, uh, NIST, EDA, and ITA, I look forward to hearing how the department will continue delivering strong, reliable services while advancing productivity and modernization. Wanna talk a little bit about weather. I think last time you were here we had a very robust conversation about NOAA. Uh, I'm, I'm, I'm glad to say that our operation in Pleasant Hill, Missouri is still operating with humans. Uh, and thank you for that. Um. We have, it's tornado season in Missouri, and uh, we had a EF one hit not too far from my home last week in Belton, Missouri. Uh, did minimal damage. Uh, the next few days could become an outbreak for tornadoes in the Kansas City area Sunday and Monday is not looking good. Um, the FY twenty-seven budget proposal includes seventy million dollars in procurement funding for the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, including investments in next generation weather satellites. How will these planned upgrades translate into benefits for my constituents?

the national weather service had been sort of had walls around itself right we had satellites we used the data we had for satellites we'd launch balloons we used the data that we captured from balloons we have our own tracking aircraft we're now going to buy data that seventy million allows us to buy data available on commercial satellites so take in more data give up none but add data, right? Have unmanned aircraft that can go into the hurricane and stay there without the risk of loss of life. Right? Think of how much better that is. They can live inside the hurricane. And you know how horrifically scary tornadoes are. And the ability to warn early on tornadoes is absolutely difficult. And uh, but I You know, the people at the National Weather Service have been the most impressive. they are the most dedicated most loyal and they work their tails off and you see when when it becomes risky you've never seen people pour in to try to help and that's why we need to have an automated model so that the people in the next town right those forecasters can get the same data and assist and we can have the whole set of meteorologists and hydrologists help and that's what i'm going to leave this department with the most modern national weather service ever that will help protect and defend all of us, cuz we we rely on it and it's really important to you and really important to me.

Mm. Yeah. I appreciate that, Mr. Secretary. I'm also proud to support the University of Missouri's research reactor, MER, uh, the most powerful university-based reactor in the country. It is a critical national supplier, as you know, of lifesaving medical isotopes that treat cancer patients each and every year. Uh, we're trying to raise the money now for a second reactor. Uh, it is a, it's, it's a game changer in medicine. How will commerce continue to support university-linked research facilities such as reactor operations?

Our university system is one of the great assets of, of our country and, and our tech hubs and our, uh, on our biology work, medical work, these are, these are extraordinary opportunities. And, and we are focused on making sure that the universities work together in consortia with business to create the best outcomes. Right, that's, we are very, very focused on outcomes. And that's what matters the most to commerce, is that we wanna make sure, if you out, you know, appropriate money, that we're going to get the benefit of the bargain for the American people, and be great stewards of the money you give us.

Mister Secretary, thank you for your service, and with that, I yield back, Chair.

Mister Laro.

mr. secretary during the the the campaign the the the president made a lot of promises about trade policy um and i quote he would " put more money" uh " into our pockets" and uh uh uh " create millions and millions of new manufacturing jobs " Uh, I mentioned earlier in my opening remarks, um, I think hard-working families are not really feeling this reality. The the president's tariffs have exacerbated the cost of living crisis that people are experiencing today. I I know the president says it's not an affordability crisis, that's a hoax, but talk to working uh Americans every day. They they are living paycheck to paycheck. It's tough. Uh, and American families now have paid more than seventeen hundred dollars each in tariff costs last year. And so things are now worse because of the president's war of choice with Iran, and we see the price of gasoline um going up. Uh the president's made promises also about manufacturing and uh the US trade deficit in manufactured goods was sixty two billion dollars higher in twenty twenty five compared to twenty twenty four, not exactly the manufacturing renaissance that was promised. So let me ask you Secretary, uh, and I asked Ambassador Greer the same question last week, and let me ask this of you. Do you know how many manufacturing jobs the United States lost per day last year, the first year of President Trump's second term?

I I don't know that statistic.

OK, well, let me

But where are the other?

Um, uh, uh, uh, let me just say this is according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics data. US manufacturing lost more than one hundred jobs per day from February twenty twenty five to February twenty six, twenty twenty six, that's more than eighty eight thousand jobs in total. It's not a trade policy that delivers for working people. I I uh Do we not calculate the number of jobs lost? And what do we what do we think about that? You know, this is uh uh really pretty extraordinary when we were supposed to, you know, be producing uh all of these manufacturing jobs. Um, um, I I I would just say that, um, the other thing was the Bureau of Labor Statistics. According to them, um, on net there was an increase of over, um, five hundred thousand manufacturing jobs under the Biden administration. Um, and I don't really don't wanna have to talk about the Biden administration, but you all have been here for well over a year, and we now need to measure your performance against standards that you you set. There is a decline in manufacturing jobs that we've seen in the first year. So let me ask you what your response to that is, and decline in manufacturing jobs.

The tariff and trade policy of President Trump and this administration bring manufacturing back to america but as uh representative ming points out when we were up in micron we broke ground on a hundred billion dollar plant that's gonna have forty thousand construction jobs tsmc in arizona again forty thousand construction jobs i broke ground in ohio twenty five thousand construction jobs so the manufacturing is going to start in two or three years when these factories come online but construction

i yeah yeah

bringing this back four hundred billion in pharmaceuticals

yeah uh just for you

two hundred billion in autos these are huge historic numbers

well let me reclaim my time from on mr. secretary because i know but we you can't even tell us how many jobs we've lost so i don't know about what we're seeing in the future but you you you you you uh just as a good uh a segue uh for me what you're doing your budget suggests that this committee um what and in your budget request you abandon the programs do the work of trying to promote american manufacturing just you you know look at the uh you zero out the manufacturing extension partnership which provides small businesses with tools training resources to grow innovate remain competitive um You you also uh you eliminate the Economic Development Administration grants, supporting workforce development, innovation, entrepreneurship. Um uh and let me also say it's worth noting that in your confirmation hearing, you opposed cuts to EDA and it's now gonna be eliminated. You've got the International Trade Administration,

Mm-hmm.

uh the global markets program. Uh how do you propose that small businesses to suri survive and thrive? if you're not gonna give them the tools that they need to be able to perform, to support development, to support workforce development. I It it it's just incomprehensible. You've mentioned these very large projects that you're doing, but you're cutting all of these efforts off to deal with small businesses in their ability to uh uh uh uh to be able to succeed and to grow manufacturing. Comment? What's the matter?

Mr. Laro, thank you.

The time I just wanted to ask the whether you wanted me to respond or reply,

Why don't you just try to answer it at at the chairman will why don't you try to answer the question,

it's up to it's up to you.

Mister Secretary?

Time of the gentlelady has expired. Mr. Clyde.

No answers to the questions.

Thank you very much, Mister Chairman. Um. Secretary Lutnik, thank you for appearing before for our committee today. Um, I want to thank you for the Bureau of Industry and Security's decision to rescind the Biden era industry. final rule on firearm export controls. That rule placed an undue burden on American firearm manufacturers and shut them out of overseas markets. Rescinding it was the right call. And so I appreciate the administration's action on this and wanna say thank you. And um also uh the example that you gave of um of the bead, the Broadband Equity Access and Deployment Program's savings of twenty-one billion dollars did i get that right twenty one billion dollars ok

twenty one billion dollars

twenty one billion dollars um that is incredible and that is a great testament uh to someone who comes in and says you know i think we need some competition in this and we need to be able to look at it and say one size doesn't fit all alright and um so uh i think this highlights the president's constitutional authority of empowerment here you have done something with fifty percent of the money and you've got fifty percent of the money saved and therefore i think that should be able to either go back to the treasury or simply be unspent because in in the end it ends up being borrowed money so with that i thank you now i wanna talk a little bit about the bead program um blue ridge mountain emc in my district is a member owned cooperative or electric cooperative was excited to receive three point eight million dollar a bead award toward their thirteen point one million dollar project to connect thirty seven hundred hard to reach households in Northeast Georgia with broadband. But on January twelfth of this year, uh the National Telecom and Information Administration quietly added new language to the bead general terms and conditions, requiring cooperatives to comply with FCC pole attachment rules across their entire service footprint, not just the bead funded areas, but for the entire service footprint, And this is a serious problem for a few reasons, and I'll uh I'll go through that. First, Congress explicitly exempted electric cooperatives from FCC pole attachment rules under section two twenty-four of the Communications Act. And as I understand it, the NTIA has no mandate to undo that exe exemption. Second, and most critically, Blue Ridge Mountain EMC is regulated by the Tennessee Valley Authority, which governs pole attachment rates for all hundred and fifty-three TVA served utilities, using a standardized valley-wide methodology. And so as I see it, NTIA is demanding that this cooperative violate its obligations to its own congressionally authorized federal regulator in order to accept a federal grant from a different agency. Blue Ridge Mountain EMC has concluded that the compliance burden may already outweigh the benefit and may be forced to walk away from the grant entirely, and I don't want to see that happen at all. All right, so, uh, are you familiar with this kind of issu- with this issue?

That's the benefit of this job. I'm familiar with all of these issues.

OK, great.

So,

Fantastic.

I just wanna let you know, so I looked into this.

Yes.

Um, the TVA is exempt from these rules.

OK.

And Blue Ridge uh Mountain EMC is exempt. And they can stick to the policy and the process that you and I would agree is the best for your area.

OK. So thank you for that commitment. I was gonna ask you for that and you you beat me to the punch. So thank you very much. Um, uh, we'll take that, uh, uh, as gospel. So, thank you, sir.

Mm-hmm.

Um, I was encouraged to see your budget request reduces the Department of Commerce's footprint by one point eight billion, a sixteen point five decrease from the FY twenty-six enacted level. And your proposal rightly eliminates duplicative programs within the Economic Development Administration and the Minority Business Development Agency and curtails billions in federal funding dollars that the Biden-Harris Administration fundled funneled, excuse me, into radical climate initiatives research and grant programs. So, Mister Secretary, uh, you propose eliminating the Economic Development Administration and the Minority Business Development Agency. Can you describe how both of these agencies, the EDA and the MBDA, were wasting taxpayer dollars on earmarks for political pep projects, and subsidies for leftist ideologies, and the reasoning then behind that? savings

so for example the mbta had a very very rough uh ig report and i have that audit here and it is brutal it actually literally says that over ninety two percent of the awards should never have been made that the economic analysis was wrong and flawed and so it was a mess so we sought to make it zero because it was a mess if it was effective great but if you know and and these other programs the problem like the mep right the idea is a good idea

hmm

but you should read the inspector general's report it make you sick to your stomach they overpay the people this was a a set up in nineteen eighty eight to do advanced manufacturing and what happened is it just crept and crept and crept to where the money was just not being used effectively so what ever appropriations you give to me

mmm

what i will promise you is i will do our darndest to use it incredibly effectively for the benefit of the bargain of the american people but if the current program is broken like MBDA Right? I'm obviously gonna suggest to you to zero it out.

Sure.

Right? Because it's broken. I'm not saying the ideas are wrong. I'm saying if the execution is wrong. I've gotta come here and tell you. It's broken. And you can feel good to zero it out.

Yeah, we have to make sure it's broken.

If you wanna come up with a new program and talk about it.

I have a good problem.

Let's do that together, but let's not do it wrong.

I have a good problem.

Well, thank you. I think that's a wise counsel and I appreciate that, Mister Chairman.

Yeah, we have a good problem.

With that, I yield back.

gentlemen eos mr. morley

thank you i would note mr. chair that um gave mister kleit a minute and a half additional time and and the uh ranking member was cut off and wouldn't answer uh i wouldn't listen to the answer by um uh the secretary but anyway mr. secretary thank you for being here i uh i uh often uh quote as my friend reminds me uh mark twain but i'll i'll quote you you said uh the us economy is the strongest and most resilient in the world i think if mr. twain were here he would say given this administration it needs to be um last year you testified before this subcommittee when i shared my concerns about i have business leaders in rochester new york because you know republicans aren't the only people who talk to business leaders and people making investments about tariff policies uh that have thrown them into a constant state of uncertainty um and the chaos remains the only predictable thing in this administration um past year there been dozens of changes to tariff rates target countries products covered specific exemptions and a complete overhaul of the tariff authorities being used when businesses don't have predictability i learned a long time ago when i'd meet with business leaders they'd say predictability is the most important thing you know almost anything you want i mean they wouldn't like it but at least if it's predictable there is no predictability um and and the market conditions are changing literally week to week uh the ranking member uh mentioned thirty four billion Dollar drop in factory construction investments in the last year eighty nine thousand manufacturing jobs lost uh i i i i and i appreciate the the continuity between the biden and trump administrations from mike ron which is up in my region and others i i i'm i'm proud of that as americans we should be but it's hard to argue When thirty percent of Americans approve of the, the administration's handling of the economy, eighty nine thousand manufacturing jobs lost, and chaos, I don't know what to tell business leaders. So, if you don't mind just answering that question, because I think this uncertainty is, and look, this is important, these are people's lives, families' lives. And, from day to day I hear from leaders say, I don't know what to do.

You would tell business leaders to build in america build in america we have advanced manufacturing let's build in america four hundred billion dollars of pharmaceuticals coming in because of our tariff policy semiconductors we will have a trillion dollars of semiconductor announced investments during president trump's administration a trillion dollars of semiconductor manufacturing one again and again

well yeah let me just for a moment let's just hone in on that so i i i represent rochester new york dozens of small and medium sized optics manufacturers one of the great uh uh optics manufacturing and research centers in the united states these companies create everything from eyeglasses um to metrology machines they have lenses and hypersonic missiles almost everything that has a microelectronic chip has a lens one i talked to just a few weeks ago they're trying onshore more of their production to do that they have to buy a multi-million dollar machine from uh from because it's not made in the united states they have to buy it from allies uh it's a ten million dollar purchase the tariff alone from the country that they're bringing it in from under a section two thirty two tariff is ten percent adds a million dollars to the upfront cost they're thinking about not doing it this is a reclaiming a million dollars on these so respectfully a building in the united states is great i talked to a company that has manufacturing in rochester and manufacturing in berlin because of canadian imports that are gonna get taxed they said to me it is less expensive for us more profitable for us to build that extend that manufacturing line in berlin than it is in united states so i i look i'd love to tell people to build we all want all of us democrats republicans i don't care who you are build more manufacturing jobs in united states but you're losing them and yes you can cite an investment here or there but the problem is the the playing field is uneven, it's chaotic, respectfully it's reckless, and look you I I appreciate you, you have to be the cheerleader for it. And not just you, every commerce secretary is a cheerleader for every president, I get that. But at some point you gotta advise the president this is reckless, it's hurting Americans, even the notion, you're talking about auto manufacturers, the president's talking about Chinese auto manufacturers coming to the United States. They're gonna compete with American auto manufacturers? But that's what we're talking about. are you talking about chinese by the way they're electric vehicles

no we're not no no no they're not allowed to bring chinese cars here absolutely not

well uh well the president is talking about allowing chinese manufacturers to build and sell into american markets as announced last week he is talking about it

no

ok well you should talk to him about what he says then i yield back mr. chair

gentleman yields back now in his debut in the new congress the gentleman uh is recognized mr. shiree

Thank you, Mister Chairman, uh, and uh, thank you to our our our witness, uh, Mister Secretary. Um, happy to be here. Uh, yes, this is my first day at subcommittee. Uh, this is my first week, uh, at committee. Welcome to the panel. Uh, but I am Thank you.

Welcome.

Thank you. Thank you. I'm uh, also a fairly new, uh, representative. I'm in my first term, and I come from the the middle of Indiana, I represent central Indiana, eastern Indiana. uh and as a consequence in part of that as i as i came into service uh came to realize how victimized so many of my constituents sort of trusting hoosiers from the heartland had been victimized by scams uh many of which emanate from from foreign scam centers this is not a uh a mission that i had coming into service but one which i came to realize how much and to what degree so many of my colleagues represent constituents who are being bilked out of billions of dollars in in scams. Uh, and I think particularly so with some of our older constituents, those from maybe more by default trusting parts of the country, like mine and our chairman, maybe perhaps in than your your neck of the woods, uh where people may be less likely to answer uh an unknown call. But in the vein of the all too common text uh uh and email scams phishing scams that are collectively uh stealing from our citizens i wanted to ask you what uh our department of commerce is doing to push stronger authentication standards for foreign digital traffic before those calls and texts reach our our citizens

i think that's a really interesting point. to uh to try to have the the origin of the call be made clear to the recipient so if it because especially what's coming with ai where they someone could you know have my voice right and use my voice to call my family would be nice to know that it's from some crazy location in in you know foreign in asia so i think this is excellent and if you'd like to work together with my team i think let's go explore how to change that i think that's really extraordinary idea and very valuable to america

alright well i would indeed like to play that forward um and it relates in part to the conversation on export controls of these high-end ships as the as the chairman noted uh your budget requests a historic increase uh two hundred and fifteen million dollars a uh addition of uh enforcement agents and ai is at the at at the root of some of these challenges certainly the the the the fairly small scams a text message scam a speed camera scams a toll road scams but the real sophisticated ones some of which in in in my own district uh built a constituent out of six hundred thousand dollars in in in property the pig butchering scams are enabled by the ai technology these high-end chips that can over time and increasingly dupe our citizens um can you just add a little color to how you aim to use the additional funding in this budget increase uh on the enforcement for bis enforcement of those high-end chips that are making their way all too often uh to south central asia i serve on well i have served up to this point on foreign affairs in the south central asia subcommittee and that's how i really came to realize how focused these foreign scam centers were on that part of the world

we need law enforcement agents right budget increases for law enforcement agents and the economics of those law enforcement agents, while we are here talking about the budget expense, the revenues that these agents call in by fining uh these companies um far far exceeds the cost. So if this was a business conversation, it would be a slam dunk if there ever was one. Right? Because I think these increases will go between five and ten times the money of each agent we add. But because this is government, where we have expense in one conversation, and revenue is a whole another thing. You know, a Commerce Secretary, I really want those agents, they will protect us, they will protect Americans, and they will pay for themselves multiple, multiple times.

Thank you. Mister Chairman, I timely yield back.

Congratulations to the gentlemen. Um. This is Dane.

Thank you Chairman Rogers, Ranking Member Meng, Ranking Member DeLauro, good afternoon Secretary Letnick. Last Tuesday I had the chance to attend a breakfast for RAIN, the Rape, Abuse, Incest National Network. It was their congressional day of action. Survivors came to me, told me their horrific stories. And the survivors I spoke with had one message. They're seeking accountability and justice. After speaking with the survivors, I again went to the Department of Justice to review the unredacted Epstein files, to seek accountability and justice for the victims, the more than one thousand victims and survivors. And today, Secretary Letnick, I have some questions for you about what I saw. Let's start with your relationship with sex trafficker Jeffrey Epstein. On October In October you told the New York Post with colorful narration that the last time you saw Jeffrey Epstein was in two thousand five, when you took a tour of his house, which happened to be right next door to yours. You claim you and your wife were so grossed out by this disgusting person you swore you would never go back. But when the Epstein files came out, it turned out that was a lie. You were forced to admit that you had visited Epstein's private island in twenty uh Twenty twelve, four years after Epstein pled guilty, soliciting a minor for prostitution and was labeled a sex offender. You brought along your wife, your kids, your nannies to the Predator's Island. Incredibly poor judgment. But that even wasn't the whole truth. It turns out that five days after visiting his island, you and Epstein signed a business deal together. As co-investors in a digital advertising company, Adfin, an email showed you take stayed in touch with Epstein about this deal as late as twenty eighteen. Secretary Letnick, why did you lie to the New York Post about your relationship with Jeffrey Epstein?

I had a problem with the

Oh, I did hear that. Please don't repeat your gracious offer to speak behind closed doors, not under oath, uh without the ability uh of this committee to question you. The American people wants to know, why did you lie about your relationship with Epstein?

The House Oversight Committee and I have agreed that we will spend the time together

We are the appropriate, reclaiming my time, I do not accept that answer, we've heard that one. We are our own committee. We have our own reason to test your credibility and veracity. Please answer the question, why did you lie to the Post?

I have voluntarily agreed to spend the time and talk about it.

OK, you you're re let the I reclaim the time. Let the referer reflect. You're dodging the question. The cover-up continues. You know what? In your conversations with the president, is the president concerned about your your continued relationship that you had with mister Epstein as recently as twenty eighteen?

I'm not going to discuss conversations I have with the president. That is Not something I'm going to do.

If you remember in that interview you said you would never be in the room with him socially, for business or even philanthropy. President Trump has just fired three cabinet secretaries, three women, Christie Noem, Pam Bondi, Laurie Chavez de Riemer. If President Trump has even a shred of concern about accountability for Jeffrey Epstein's enablers, he would fire you too. Beyond Adfin, what other financial ties do you have to Jeffrey Epstein?

as i said i'm gonna answer all these questions

beyond ad fin what other financial ties you're the commerce secretary we have a right to ask this question and get it answered

again i'm not gonna spend the budget day discussing something i've set aside time to spend on this topic with your house colleagues

i'm gonna switch topics let me switch topics a a different and equally disturbing issue how your family is profiting from your work as Commerce Secretary. Let's start with tariffs. You and the President illegally imposed the highest tariffs on the American people since the Great Depression. And your sons figured out how to profit from the high tariffs by buying up refund rights, pennies on the dollar, just as you were out there cheerleading the tariffs. As a result, federal taxpayers like my constituents may now owe your family tens of uh or hundreds of millions of dollars i wonder if president trump is concerned about you and your family profiteering off the illegal tariffs

you know that that is false here is a reporting i'd like to put it in the record howard lutnick's old firm did not in fact profit from the supreme court tariff ruling it is just not true

it's your sons it's your sons the recording is a

no no his old firm and my sons It is not true, and you know it's not true.

Mister Mister Chairman, reclaiming my time. I have asked many Mister Chairman,

It's not true.

reclaiming about twenty seconds. I hope you recognize how fundamentally wrong and corrupt this is. I hope you take accountability and have the decency to resign before you are fired.

It's not true.

I yield.

Time of the gentlelady has expired. Uh, Mister Mervyn.

Yes, Secretary Luknyk. Last week at Samford World Economic Summit, uh, you were quoted, which I wanna thank you, it was a pro-union quote. Said the concept of taking our auto, an, an auto plant out of Ohio and Michigan and putting it in Mexico to break the unions back. Is nuts. And to break people is nuts. Is that something that you said?

I don't know if I said exactly that way, but the concept sounds right.

The concept, OK. And and so you agreed that you wanna protect American jobs and union jobs in that quote.

Yes, I think automotive union jobs are excellent jobs for Americans.

OK. So on On Labor Day, on Labor Day, the President of the United States on Labor Day put out an executive order which was the greatest collective bargaining and union breaking executive order in the history of America that took away bargaining rights, collective bargaining rights from everyone in the Department of Commerce. Why the two mixed messages? Why take collective bargaining away from union members who work under you? And why now are you saying you're fighting for union jobs?

Union jobs. in the commercial side of the united states of america are fundamental are fundamental taxpayer jobs

not in government

taxpayer jobs in article two in the united states of america executive branch the executive branch

article two meetings national security

should be run by the president of the united states elected by the people

ok ok so you stand for union jobs cause i need your help on this british petroleum british petroleum in my district which is an energy producer the third largest oil refinery has locked out the united steel workers approximately one thousand families men and women because of contract negotiations my republican governor came to the picket line governor braun i agree with him in a bipartisan way that british petroleum is putting our community at risk by having replacement workers who are non-trained, so environmental risks and also safety risks for Hammond, Yashica, Gowaining, my community is a a a threat. Will you join me and ask the president of the United States to tell British Petroleum, a foreign company, energy producer, to go back to the bargaining table so that those very valuable union jobs you were just theatrical about will be saved and families in my community will go back to work

i didn't mean to be theatrical

don't laugh there's nothing funny about it don't laugh at my situation about a thousand families out of work

no no no i said no no no no no that's not that's not right and that's not fair

ok ok i'm just putting in things in perspective

i said your comment of theatrical i had not intended but when we are talking about union jobs i have been very clear i am very supportive of great union jobs in america i think they are excellent jobs for america i am a fan of the steelworkers

so will you make the commitment

I'm a fan of the Teamsters and everybody knows it.

Right. Will you make the commitment?

I would be glad, how about this? We, let's sit together, let's go through it together,

OK.

and let's come up with the right move to get uh, this company to treat our union workers fairly. I am on side with that. Let's work together to do it.

So the Secretary of Commerce, as your act, as your role, you will sit down with me to make sure British Petroleum goes back to the negotiation table so my family's, uh, steel workers go back to work.

Seems like a fair request to me, yes.

That's yes? OK.

Yeah.

So, uh, thank you for that. That's progress, and I'm gonna hold you to that as I expect you to hold me accountable to things. Secondly, you had talked about Secretary Wright and yourself celebrating gas powered investments for natural gas powered facilities in Southern Pennsylvania and Ohio. In Northwest Indiana, a week ago on March twenty sixth secretary right made an emergency uh order saying that our utility, NPSCO needed to because of national securities reopen a coal-fired plant I have the highest rates for electricity and energy in the country. My rate payers in Northwest Indiana are getting crushed by those rates. It's a hundred million dollars to reopen up a coal plant that NPSCO privately privately chose to close in two thousand nineteen. Explain to me why the mixed messages. Why is natural gas good for Ohio and southern Pennsylvania? But why is Secretary Wright celebrating with you the increase in jobs? But in my district, there's going to be a hundred million dollars because you're forcing, the administration is forcing the power plant to keep open or to reestablish that plant, a coal-powered plant. Just help me understand the differences.

Reopening a coal-fired plant will employ lots of coal miners, which we just discussed.

But why why is, right, why is natural gas good for Ohio and

Oh, we have to agree.

southern Pennsylvania, but why do my rate payers, because of an executive order, have to pay a hundred million dollars? It it there's a tariff placed through MISO that has, the rate payers have to pay that. Tell me why are my rate payers who have NPSCO, the highest energy bills in the country. Why are they paying for that? But Pennsylvania and Ohio, you're celebrating natural gas power plants.

Opening a coal plant will lower the cost of energy in your district. I'm happy to sit down with you and go through with you. I'm I'm happy to do that.

Well, the fact

I love math.

I like I don't, right.

I love math.

The math is,

It's going to lower the cost.

the math is it's a hundred million dollars to the rate payers because they have to reopen something while you're Well, you're celebrating cutting ribbons for the same things in other parts of the country.

The time of the gentleman has expired.

I don't understand it. With that, I I

Mr. Ivey.

I yield back. I thank you for working with me on the British petroleum issue.

Mr. Ivey.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, Mister Secretary, I've got some questions for you about um the illegal tariffs refund uh that the administration's, I guess, starting in the process to make. So The Trump administration collected about a hundred and sixty six billion or so in these illegal tariffs, and they were declared illegal by the Supreme Court. And I think on Monday, CBP opened up a portal that would allow um the importers of record and licensed customs brokers to file for um refunds. And I know there was some problems with how it got going forward and the like, but The biggest question I had was, it looks like only the first tier of entities that were interacting on the trade front are gonna be eligible to get a refund. And I asked the USTR uh head about this the other week. Um, I'm trying to figure out if the Trump administration is gonna do anything to help small businesses in the next tiers down, who also ended up having to pay some of these tariffs uh as they were passed along, And especially everyday consumers, individuals. Um, customers who just, you bought something at the store, it cost more because the tariffs raised the price of it. Now it's um, there's gonna be a refund that's provided, but only to the front-line people, who also benefited from charging the higher prices down the road. So on, from one perspective, those corporations are gonna get a windfall profit, but there doesn't seem to be anything in place to pass along a refund to the smaller businesses or the individual customers. Are you aware of anything that the Trump administration is doing to help those funds go back to the small businesses and the individual customers?

So, uh, I am the secretary of commerce and customs and border patrol is under, uh, DHS and, uh, secretary Mullen. So, uh, that's just unfortunately not that which I'm involved in. Right?

Well, but.

So I'm not, I'm not involved in it and I haven't participated in those discussions. Uh,

Uh, well, but hold up a second. I mean, you're, I just saw the sixty minutes interview, or I'm sorry, face the nation interview where you were talking about tariffs and you were praising the president's tariffs, the same tariffs that were declared illegal by the Supreme Court. In fact, you said that these tariffs are gonna make it, they're gonna be so beneficial to the American people that there'd be a point where they wouldn't even have to pay individual income taxes anymore. Obviously that's not gonna be the case now. Uh, and by the way, at the time that the president learned of the Supreme Court's ruling, you were standing there in the Oval Office with him as he criticized the Supreme Court for the ruling. So it's clear that it's in your, it's in your bandwidth as Secretary of Commerce. And it's clear that, that the tariffs are highly relevant to your role as secretary. So, is there anyth- and if there's something the Trump administration was doing about refunding this, I'm sure you would know about it. So is there anything that you're aware of that the Trump administration is doing to help the refunds go back to smaller businesses and individual customers?

Again, the the process of setting tariffs I participate in, but customs collects them and customs is responsible for the portal and all these things. I'm just I'm just not involved in that process.

To the best of your knowledge, there is not.

I I wouldn't know one way or the other as the right way to answer.

Oh, come on, Mister Secretary.

You don't know what that means?

You have no idea whether the hundred and sixty six billion dollars, and that's without interest. You don't know, you don't know if there's a process in place to collect that money. And by the way, once the Supreme Court declared him illegal, the President immediately said he's gonna roll out a new set of tariffs, which you were also connected with, that took replace that that replaced those funds. You have no idea if the administration is doing anything with respect to the refunds? You really don't.

No, no, as I said, there's a portal that has been put out, but it's by customs and border patrol,

Let's let's let's do it this way.

and I'm not participating in that portal.

Let's do it this way. Let's do it this way. Would you commit today to participate in setting up something with the administration, through the administration, to help make sure that small businesses who were not the front line with respect to the payment of the brokers and especially individual consumers, get a chance to get a refund.

Well, that makes perfect sense.

You'd be you're committing to do that.

That makes perfect sense to me.

Alright. Well, we will definitely follow up with that. I I appreciate your commitment on that front. And with that, I yield back.

Gentlemen.

Gentlemen, uh, he yields back. That concludes today's hearing. I'd like to thank our witness, uh, Secretary Litnick, uh, for his testimony and his presence with the committee. Without objection, members may have seven days to submit additional questions for the record. Thank you, Mister Secretary, for being here today and answering questions. Subcommittee stands adjourned.

Thank you.

uh i was thinking of like a couple of like ok like a new year like a new year like you know like a new year's eve or something like that i remember that yeah like a new year's eve like a whole new year like like a new year's eve like i don't know like a two years like a year and a half like a year and a half like a year and a half like a new year's eve like a whole new year like a year and a half like a year and a half like a two year and a half like a new year like a new year oh i remember that like a two year and a half like a new year like a two year and a half like a two year and a half like a two year and a half yeah that was really good i mean that was good i think we got a lot of good ideas as well yeah mmm