Budget Hearing - Army Corps of Engineers and Bureau of Reclamation

around eleven thirty uh through no uh falter control of hours there are also hearings going on and other meetings uh inappropriations going on back and forth yesterday i had the secretary of energy so what i'm going to try to do is get this hearing wrapped up by eleven thirty because that first vote series is gonna be very lengthy may exceed an hour and the like so um if you will excuse some of my my brevity i wanna make sure that everyone has an opportunity to ask their questions it's my pleasure to welcome assistant secretary of the army for civil works adam tell and chief of engineers lieutenant general butch graham uh to discuss the fiscal twenty twenty seven budget request for the us corps army corps of engineers i am equally pleased to welcome assistant secretary for water science at the department of the interior andrey trevanykh

trevnykh

trevnykh yes ma'am thank you trevnykh they've got it there to discuss the fiscal twenty twenty seven budget request for the bureau of reclamation and central utah project general graham it is great to see you again sir uh in front of the energy and water subcommittee uh assistant secretary tell and assistant secretary trevnykh um It's a pleasure to have you both as well before us for the first time. Uh, I look forward to working with all of you to advance our nation's water resources for the benefit of all Americans. Subcommittee has a long history of supporting the water infrastructure needs that our nation relies upon to ensure America maintains its competitive advantage in transporting goods, protecting life and property, and supplying water to our farmers and citizens. In fiscal twenty-six, we once again demonstrated our commitment to these goals by enacting a bill that made a strong investment in our water resources. I look forward to hearing from all of you uh on how you will insure that these investments made in fiscal twenty-six will be managed efficiently. I was especially proud of the two hundred and thirteen million in funding I was able to personally secure to advance the Chickamauga Lock inland navigation project in my district closer to operational status. While this project has not been without its challenges, I'm encouraged that with the Corps' partnership and the leadership of the Trump administration, the project will prove to be a success and provide some lessons learned that can inform future project delivery on inland system nationwide. For fiscal twenty twenty seven, the administration has provided a budget request for the Corps that totals six point seven billion dollars a level even with the administration's request last year. but a reduction of over three billion dollars from our fiscal twenty-six enacted level. Within the six point seven billion total, one point seven billion dollars is once again provided for the Harbor Maintenance Trust funds, eligible activities, less than half the maximum offset provided for in law. I look forward to working for working in fiscal twenty-seven to ensure adequate funding to maintain our nation's ports and harbors and their authorized dimensions. I am pleased to see the administration focusing on advancing the highest priority studies and construction projects in the Corps' primary mission areas of navigation, flood control, and ecosystem restoration that provide the most national benefits. I look forward to hearing more about the Corps' initiatives to improve transparency within its enterprise and deliver these projects on time and under budget. The Bureau of Reclamation and Central Utah Project Fiscal twenty-seven budget requests proposes a total of one point three billion dollars, a reduction of approximately twenty-two percent below the enacted level. I'm concerned uh that at this level we will not be able to address the most pressing water resources needs across the West. While I do not represent a reclamation state, I understand the importance of robust investment in Western water infrastructure and the benefit provided to the entire nation. by reclamation projects that supply water and power to our communities and farmers. I appreciate our witnesses for being here today to explain your budget requests and to discuss the administration's priorities for your respective agencies. I look forward to working with you and my colleagues on both sides of the dais to develop a bill that addresses our nation's most pressing water resources and development challenges. With that, I will turn to my ranking member uh, Miss Capter for her opening statement. Miss Capter.

Thank you very much. Uh, good morning and thank you all for joining us, uh, Chair Fleischman, my colleagues. Uh, and I, uh, welcome this opportunity, uh, to examine recent actions of the US Army Corps of Engineers and the Bureau of Reclamation in your twenty twenty seven budget requests. Knowfully, we respect the work that you and the Corps do. Uh, we, uh, all thank you for your service to our nation and your vital work sustains life on earth, strengthens our economy and ensures public safety against increasing threats of extreme weather events. Nature seems angrier each year from the record-breaking snow drought parching the west to recent record flooding in Washington State to the droughts followed by severe rainfall impacting our Great Lakes region and coastal battering in Texas, South Carolina and California, you have a lot to uh catch up to. Truly, your agencies are essential to protecting lives and carrying out everyday life for American families, our businesses, and their ability to pay for the vital water and energy systems on which they rely. When the Corps of Engineers maintains our inland waterways, ports and harbors, those ensure that agricultural and industrial products from Ohio soybeans to essential building materials like American steel reach domestic and global markets, efficiently. This keeps the cost of goods down for everyone. And when the Bureau of Reclamation delivers ten trillion gallons of water for municipal, rural, residential and industrial uses, it ensures that communities have affordable and reliable access to life's most basic necessity, that too many take for granted. This mission is under immense pressure. This very month is historically record low snowpack, threatens the Colorado River Basin, and pushes Lake Powell dangerously close to losing its ability to generate the hydropower that millions rely on. Our country is headed to four hundred million people, and we're acting like it's about two hundred and fifty. Uh, that is why the President's proposed fiscal year twenty twenty-seven budget, uh, and its cuts for the Corps and the Bureau are not just misguided, they are dangerous. Slashing the Corps' budget by three point eight billion dollars, a thirty-six percent decrease, and cutting reclamation's budget by three hundred and fifty eight million dollars will erode our infrastructure and ultimately raise costs on everyday Americans and make their lives worse. Remember, the President is asking us for one point five trillion and that's not even a plus another two hundred fifty billion in defense spending for more war costs halfway around the world. We should not put American lives at risk here at home by transferring their hard-earned money abroad. He can't pay for this war by robbing every other account in the government of the United States. Furthermore, our nation cannot build resilient, comfortable ways of life for our growing population on shrinking staffs. The Corps has lost approximately eight percent of its workforce through recent terminations and attrition actions which the Corps didn't ask for. And neither did we here in Congress. And while the Bureau of Reclamation has lost an alarming twenty-five percent of its workforce, including senior staff with decades of institutional knowledge. Federal officials warn that the loss of this expertise and staffing capacity jeopardizes regular inspections and repairs of reclamation's four hundred and ninety dams and two hundred and ninety-four reservoirs. One nation, or our nation, cannot gamble with public safety. We all remember the tragedy in Texas just last year. when at least one hundred and thirty-five people, many of them children, died. Safety is paramount. I must also express my deep disappointment with and disapproval of the extreme politicization and lack of transparency we are witnessing regarding our nation's water infrastructure. During the longest government shutdown in history, last October, the administration announced it would pause over eleven billion dollars, eleven billion, in funding for essential core projects simply because projects are located in so-called blue states and cities. Where did that ridiculous idea even come from? We're talking about people and communities. What type of heavy ham-handed harm was exacted on the American people? No administration in US history has stooped to such political tactics, and this is not entertainment. What you work with every day is life itself. We are also seeing gag orders emerge from the Department of Defense that require all congressional communication to be routed through legislative affairs at the Pentagon. What do they know? Again, this is political manipulation that impedes the timely exchange of basic factual project information with this committee and members of Congress. In the Great Lakes region, we know what's at stake. We know we've needed the Corps to modernize projects like the Soo Locks to turbocharge our economy and keep maritime shipping lanes competitive, and open. We need to advance without further delay construction of the Brandon Road project to stop invasive carp from devastating the Great Lakes fishing industry and recreational boating industries, with Lake Erie having the most to lose, given it is home to more fish and boats than all the other Great Lakes combined. Disinvestment now will inevitably lead to higher costs down the road for the American taxpayer. I urge my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to reject these short-sighted Public safety compromising. Budget cuts. Now is not the time to retreat. We must provide these agencies with the resources they need to lower costs for working families and safeguard our people for generations to come. Thank you, Mister Chairman, I look forward to the testimony and yield back.

And I thank the ranking member for her opening statement. Um. Again, thank you to our witnesses for being here today. Without objection, your full written testimonies will be entered into the record. With that in mind, we would ask that you please summarize your opening statement in five minutes. Assistant Secretary Tell, you are now recognized for your opening statement, sir.

Thank you, Chairman Fleischman. Chairman Fleischman, Ranking Member Captor, and distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to be here today to discuss the President's FY twenty-seven budget for the Army civil works program. As you know, the budget was submitted to Congress earlier this month and it laid out President the President's priorities for discretionary funding. with recommendations to reach balance and restore confidence in the government's fiscal posture. The President's top-line budget includes six point six six three billion dollars for the Army Civil Works program. The Civil Works program is centered around its primary missions of commercial navigation, flood risk reduction and aquatic ecosystem restoration. The budget focuses on opportunities to support these missions in a way that provides a high return on investment to the American public, such as by facilitating maritime commerce and addressing the most significant flood risks facing American communities. In support of these missions, with regard to project funding, the budget includes two point O six billion dollars for commercial navigation, notably including one hundred and thirty-three point seven six billion dollars for the completion of Montgomery Lock on the Ohio Ohio River in Pennsylvania. Additionally, the budget includes nine hundred and thirty-one million dollars for flood and storm damage reduction, including four hundred and twenty million dollars for Prado Dam in California. The budget also includes four hundred and ten million dollars for aquatic ecosystem restoration, including sufficient amounts for the South Florida Ecosystem Restoration program to help support the expedited completion of the Everglades Agricultural Area Reservoir by twenty twenty nine, which is five years ahead of schedule. The budget also focuses on increased transparency and realignment of incentives related to how funds are executed through the civil works program. A central feature of this year's budget is the district's salary transparency initiative, which is a key part of our building infrastructure not paperwork agenda unveiled earlier this year. This is a key change designed in how we account for cost that's designed to drive our districts towards project delivery. The existing account framework inadvertently incentivizes forever projects, as core districts' uh ability to employ to pay pay its employees' salaries and cover its overhead, is tied to keeping projects undelivered or taking on projects that otherwise wouldn't to generate new business. This system also makes it difficult to distinguish the actual cost of personnel and overhead expenses, thereby obscuring how federal and non-federal funds are being utilized. To address this issue, the Corps of Engineers will now separate employee salaries and overhead costs from direct project costs. While this budget includes the same types of resources proposed in previous budgets, all salary and overhead costs are identified and reported in a separate account from the project's line item costs. This change is a key component of this administration's effort to promote greater transparency and accountability across the government. This new approach will deliver unprecedented transparency to s- to decision makers within the executive branch and here within the legislative branch. It will also realign incentives to focus our enterprise on building infrastructure on time and within budget, rather than building districts through the endless production of government paperwork. Thank you all for inviting me here today. I look forward to your questions.

Thank you, Assistant Secretary Till. General Graham. Thank you for being here today. It's an honor to be with you, sir. I thank you for your outstanding service to our country and also to all those who serve the Army Corps and our great United States Army, sir. Uh, you are now recognized for five minutes for your opening service statement.

Chairman Fleischman, Ranking Member Capter, and members of the subcommittee, I'm honored to testify before you today in regard to the President's fiscal year twenty twenty seven budget request for the United States Army Corps of Engineers through the civil works program the Army Corps works with our partners to study, build and operate water resource projects focusing on our three main mission areas of commercial navigation, coastal and upland flood storm damage reduction and aquatic ecosystem restoration. Let me break those down. The navigation program, which consists of our coastal, Great Lakes, channels as well as the inland rivers and our key intercoastal waterways, it underpins much of this - of the nation's economy, ensuring that commodities can move reliably and efficiently. Our flood and coastal storm damage reduction programs maintain seven hundred and forty-six dams over thirteen thousand miles of federal levees four hundred and fifty miles of shore protection all of that provides on average over two hundred billion two hundred billion per year in flood damages avoided. Mr. Chairman, and ranking member, chapter, we're a great investment for the American people. The civil works program for twenty twenty seven is performance based and focuses on high performing projects and programs. The discretionary request includes six point six six three billion for the civil works program. As we discussed the last time I was in front of this committee, the core's objective each and every day is to safely deliver quality projects on schedule and within budget. To this end, our current on schedule rate across the entire civil works portfolio is up to eighty seven point nine percent when I checked this morning. We've gone from a low B from the last time I was here in the low eighties to a high B and we're pleased with that progress. This performance is influenced by factors both controllable and uncontrollable. Focusing on the things we can control, the Army Corps is absolutely committed to procedural improvements in the following three areas. First, get the engineering right. The focus here is on the maturity of the design. I remain committed to our, my pledge that we will not request project authorization unless the design is at the thirty-five percent level. We simply have to know what it is we plan to build before we ask for authorization and funding. Second key item is to get the project management right. Here, we're focusing on crafting logical, fully resourced schedules and sticking to them, ensuring that we're delivering these important projects with a great sense of urgency, with a great sense of hustle. And finally, we've gotta get the team right. We're striving to bring together the right mix of talent either on board with the core or by leveraging the talents in the private sector. So by focusing on the basics of getting the engineering right, of getting the project management right, and getting the project team right, we're making our cost estimates more reliable and our project delivery more efficient. We are seeing some tangible progress from the investments Congress has made. I'll focus on our coastal channel availability. We've improved. Last year we were at eighty-five percent of channel availability, this year we're at ninety-one percent. Congress is investing more in us and we're delivering

And I thank you, General Graham. Um, Assistant Secretary Travenick, you are now recognized for five minutes for your opening statement. Thank you.

Great, thank you. Good morning. Thank you, Mister Chairman, Ranking Member Capter, and members of the subcommittee for the opportunity to testify in support of President Trump's fiscal year twenty-seven budget request for the Bureau of Reclamation and the Central Utah Project and discuss the President's vision to make America safer, stronger and more prosperous through the delivery of water and power. I'm Andrea Trabenek, Assistant Secretary for Water and Science. Department of the Interior's Bureau of Reclamation manages and delivers water for agriculture municipal and industrial uses supports flood control and recreation and produces hydropower across the western United States. Reclamation projects and programs serve as the backbone of the West's water and power infrastructure and are a driver of economic activity across hundreds of river basins. Reclamation's activities support economic output, valued at approximately thirty-four billion annually, and sustain more than four hundred fifty thousand jobs. Each year, Reclamation delivers roughly ten trillion gallons of water, irrigates approximately ten million acres of farmland, and generates reliable hydropower that supports regional electric grids. Reclamation's core mission is grounded in maintaining assets that provide safe, reliable, and efficient management of water resources throughout the Western United States. Specifically, Reclamation's work includes the operation and maintenance of federal water and power infrastructure, the responsible management of natural resources, the application of sound science and engineering to inform operational decision-making and the execution of congressionally congressionally authorized programs in accordance with the federal and state law. Reclamation carries out these responsibilities across seventeen Western States, and works closely with water and power customers, tribes, and local partners to deliver authorized benefits efficiently and cost-effectively, with priority given to contractual obligations to our stakeholders as well as efforts required by law. Reclamation's FY twenty-seven budget evinces the Trump administration goals of improving water access reliability and affordability for farmers across the Western States. Moreover, the administration remains committed to ensuring reliable rates for power users. Reclamation continues to seriously engage with stakeholders along the Colorado River and other key basins and reclamation continues to explore how best to utilize resources in support of these goals. For FY twenty-seven, reclamation requests over one point two billion in gross discretionary appropriations of this total one point one billion is requested for the water related resources account sixty four million for the policy administration account and thirty two million for the California Bay Delta account. The request also includes sixty-six point nine million for the Central Valley Project Restoration Fund. Discretionary appropriations are supplemented by nondiscretionary and partner funding that supports the execution of authorized projects and programs. In addition to the request for reclamation, the FY twenty-seven budget requests seventeen million for the Central Utah Project Completion Act program. The budget supports funding for continued construction of the Utah Lake drainage basin, and delivery system, the final component of the project. The funding supports continued construction of the Spanish Fork Pipeline and design of the Mona Pipeline. Funding is also provided for the mitigation commission for the purpose of continued implementation of mitigation commitments for fish, wildlife and recreation, as identified in project planning documents in title three of COPCA. In addition to the FY twenty-seven budget, Reclamation continues to utilize existing resources to support its water supply management and conservation activities. The one big beautiful bill act into signed into law by president trump provided one billion to reclamation for construction of water storage and conveyance facilities to date reclamation has allocated eight hundred and eighty nine million to support modernizing western water infrastructure and improving storage capacity including five hundred and forty million for california hundred million for utah and thirty million for idaho one notable example is the forty million specifically dedicated to planning and pre-construction activities associated with raising shasta dam moreover funding from the one big beautiful bill act also will be used construct a conveyance and pump storage project for the Lewiston Orchards area in northern Idaho and to replace a hundred and ten year old strawberry highline canal in southern Utah County, Utah with an enclosed pipeline to improve safety and water delivery efficiency. Moreover, Reclamation continues to execute balances from prior year funding to bolster conservation activities in the Colorado River including efforts which have resulted in at least three point four million acre feet of additional water in Lake Mead drought related funding near-term and medium-term actions to stabilize water supplies in drought-affected basins, include voluntary conservation agreements, water management improvements, and infrastructure investments that deliver measurable operation benefits and protect existing federal investments. Additionally, reclamation funds are being applied to infrastructure projects that address deferred maintenance, improve water delivery reliability, enhance dam safety, and strengthen system performance. Reclamation has selected hundreds of projects nationwide, and is implementing them through established program authorities. Thank you for the opportunity to speak on President's FY twenty seven budget request for the Department of the Interior Interior's Bureau of Reclamation and CUPCA. I look forward to answering any of your questions.

Thank you, Assistant Secretary Travenick. We now begin with questions, starting with my own, and I am mindful it's about ten thirty. They say votes are gonna be called around eleven thirty. So, uh, in the interest of brevity, uh, I'm going to limit my my my question uh general graham and assistant secretary tell uh to chickamauga lock uh i wanna thank both of you all uh for your partnership with the chickamauga lock replacement project in my district i'm extremely pleased the corps was able to award the final construction contract earlier this year i thank you for that um thanks to the two hundred and thirteen million dollars i worked to include in the fiscal twenty-six bill for that funding it is important to ensure from my perspective that there are no further delays as they take place as these contracts finish. That is my goal. Uh, it is now again, once again, fully funded to get it completed. Uh, my uh, one question actually too is what is the updated time-line for Chickamauga Lock to be operational? And how is the Corps working to complete previous contracts without delaying final construction? Thank you.

Mister Chairman, thank you for the question. Uh, this is an important uh project related to navigation along the tennessee river uh it has many ties to national security facilities that you've also been a tremendous advocate for uh this project uh would not have come gotten as far as it has gotten today about eighty five percent complete without your leadership uh we you and i visited together about a month ago uh i think we learned a lot there uh we're tracking an operational uh date of twenty twenty eight um there there have been ongoing contract discussions related to that project i'm not gonna get into those here i'll uh allow general graham to do so this is an important project and we believe that the challenges related to contracting will not affect the timeline

thank you sir general

chairman just to add we're certainly watching finishing chickamong uh lock closely as the assistant secretary said twenty twenty eight is is our commitment to deliver that we've got a great contractor on board now with that additional funding that we received and twenty twenty six and so we're excited about getting this finished we got a few bumps in the road with finishing the work from the the our current contractor but we're committed to working collaboratively uh cross both those contractors to get this project delivered

thank you gentlemen i look forward to working with you to complete this lot project appreciate that uh with that i'm now going to recognize the ranking member for her questions and i wanna make sure that everyone can ask the questions that they wish

Yes,

Ms. Caprio.

and Mr. Chairman, I'd like to suggest that we do a second hearing with the corps, if we are unable to ask our questions today. This is an extremely important part of our government. And um, I am offended that the leadership, not you, but recessed us for two weeks. And then when we come back, they co-plan hearings parallel to one another across this government. Three different ones going on right now. I'm on all the committees. And I can't be there because I'm here. So I see what you're doing. Um, I won't say the name of the congressman. But I am very, I'm very offended by the way, not you or anybody here, but your leadership is handling this Congress, and it's not with respect. OK, so. Um, in terms of questions, uh Assistant Secretary Tell, um, uh, the Sue Locke project I visited several times and I visited again this year, and I was just so impressed with everyone there. It's critical to our maritime transportation system. But in September twenty twenty four, the secretary of army submitted to the a special salary rate uh request for Sue Locks operators in response to pay reduction, driven employment losses across the Corps uh and the Department of Defense. Nineteen months later, Sue Locks operators continue to vacate their positions for higher paying jobs elsewhere, risking the Corps' ability to operate the locks on a twenty-four hour basis, and potentially delaying iron ore shipments to the Great Lakes region. When, and that goes into steel and so forth, so it's very important to us. When do you expect the department to respond to the pending request for an appropriate needed adjustment to the salary rate for Soo Lock operators to maintain critical operations there and what are you doing to specifically prompt that response? And they didn't ask me to ask this question.

Ma'am, thank you for the question, and I think uh we share, General Graham and I share your view about the importance of Soo Locks. Lo Lo- Soo Locks, this is uh what allows a lot of the uh ingredients for our steel industry to transit the Great Lakes. through Great uh through Lake Superior um and and into the remainder of the of the of the of the of the waterway system there. Uh it is a project that is in the upper peninsula of Michigan. It's remote, a remote location, and it does require special consideration in relation to how we pay the folks that are working on the Sulox project. So thank you for your advocacy for that. I'm happy to get back to you on the specific question about the status of the request. Um we want to see Sulox completed. Uh, we have, uh, there was a hundred and seventy-six million dollars, uh, in the FY twenty-six work plan. There's seventy-eight million dollars in the President's FY twenty-seven budget. This is important to the nation, it's important to the entire upper Midwest. Uh, you, we all share that and we wanna see this project complete.

And as a nation at war, it's even more important, so,

Yes, ma'am.

uh, I would appreciate it.

It's a strategic asset for our nation.

Thank you. Uh, I wanna turn to the Ohio harbors here just for a sec. The Great Lakes navigation system is an important waterborne transportation network about twenty-four hundred miles along the longest coastline in the country actually. And uh one critical issue that remains for us is the beneficial use of dredge materials uh from our lakes. Um do you share uh uh uh General Graham, do you share General Spellman's goal of a seventy percent use of dredge material for beneficial use by twenty thirty? And can you commit to me that you will continue to prioritize the development of dredge material management plans in ohio that will be necessary uh as existing disposal facilities approach capacity

uh ranking member captor absolutely um seventy percent beneficial reuse is our goal i think when we checked earlier we're at almost forty some percent um we're not gonna stop here the redoing the dredge material management plans for all those seven harbors with the buffalo district is ongoing that's a great step in the right direction and the intent from both the port operators the state of ohio and the corps of engineers is to view that material as a resource not as a waste product and i that is the spirit with which they're moving forward and if i could just add one piece going back to the sulok we certainly are aware of the flooding in the uh the upper uh portion of michigan in the lower upper peninsula of michigan that's ongoing right now particularly around sheboygan yes thank you and uh terrible just flash flooding So we have been asked to provide some dam safety engineers and they're on site and we also have been asked for some flood fighting materials and they're on site as well.

I haven't seen where the water's come up to the base of the bridge, but it was about seven inches away at uh it's a serious issue there and thank you. Um I um would suggest, I'll write you a letter on this, that um and this will be my last uh in this round if there'll be a second round uh point that I wanna raise i really do i've met with farmers i i've eight of my nine counties are all rural counties and they want that dredge material material i would love for you to help me setup a meeting between the corps and the very best farmers that exist in america and the farm bureau and our farmers who specialize in cover crops uh because one of the reasons lake erie is sick is because all that good material washes down through the rivers into the lake And they have shown me some astounding achievements, it's taken them twenty years. But I think we have a lot to learn cross-agency, so I would just ask if you could make a note to yourself and find me the right people. I think we can do something extraordinary for the country, uh in our in our world. So thank you, thank you for your services. Thank you so much. I yield back.

I now recognize Chairman Simpson for his questions.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, and thank you all for being here today, this is an important hearing, you do uh. great work and i uh appreciate and i enjoy working with all of you and appreciate the work that you do this would not be an army corps of engineering hearing if i didn't ask about the little wood river uh i was pleased to see that you uh requested twelve point five million dollars in the budget request to move this towards completion i won't ask you for the whole thing it could be a simple answer we're gonna get it done that would be suffice is that

russians symptoms we're gonna get it done

alright that's all i need to hear but i've been asking about that for twenty eight years and i've told people that i'm not gonna retire until we get that done so you're keeping me here i would like to go do other things but anyway uh assistant uh secretary travnik uh the uh yeah i was encouraged to see that the bureau of reclamation released first round of projects to receive funding from the bureau's section of last year's reconciliation bill you mentioned the lewiston orchards uh i would also like to highlight as we did in a letter from the delegation the uh project uh to rely on the stretch of the new york canal through boise and while most of the reconciliation funding has been claimed at this time by my count we still have about a hundred million dollars left is there is there a next set of projects funded by this reconciliation money and if so uh do you have any sense of the timelines of any future announcements

uh thank you representative simpson yeah we were fortunate to be able to get those dollars out the door and of course be able to get those into idaho uh when i was here during the first trump administration i actually got to see the new york canal that was actually my first trip with reclamation so know how important of a project that is uh so as we're looking at trying to figure out uh to get that extra hundred million dollars out the door we're definitely looking at projects that shovel ready trying to prioritize those mmm um so we don't quite know the timeline yet um but we're we're knowing that those dollars are extremely important so so we'll keep everybody post as we get those out

Thank you. Uh, and uh, Assistant Secretary Tell, uh, I was pleased several years ago to lead the charge on appropriat- on the appropriation side to get to Corps, uh, Corps' full access to harbor maintenance trust fund. I understand you've done quite well with that, uh, access and have greatly improved your management maintenance of the nation's seaports. Part of the reform language included getting donor and energy ports increased access to that. to that fund my understanding was that language was intended to apply to maintenance dredging and closely related projects at donor and energy ports i have heard concerns that these dredging funds are being used for projects not related to dredging can you explain the process donor and energy ports use to gain access to the harbor maintenance trust fund and how your office defines applicable uses for these funds that are generated by shippers not ports for maintain maintenance dredging

Uh, yes sir, this is um an issue that is related to the Authorization Act, uh the Water Resources Development Act which is up for reauthorization this year, and requires a certain percentage of Harbor Maintenance Trust Fund um to be set aside for energy and donor transfer ports for activities that are not uh that are not in the federal channel um closer to the shoreside infrastructure. Um the FY twenty-six uh Appropriations Act uh met the authorizer's intent with regard to uh the set aside for those ports and um the fy twenty six work plan reflected that as well i'm gonna defer to general graham on the details of the dividing line between what we consider federal and nonfederal ok

charles um representative simpson have to get back to you on those exactly where the line is drawn there's some it's not clear in my mind right now and i don't wanna give you any bad information so we'll get back to you and your staff.

ok i appreciate that that but thank you all for all you do it's a important part of moving this country forward and thank you.

You're back.

Thank you Mister Sibson, Miss Washam and Schultz.

Thank you Mister Chairman and Secretary Tell, it's nice to meet you um and I understand this is today is your first opportunity to testify in front of the Appropriations Committee so welcome, I look forward to working with you because I got a lot going on in South Florida so um I I'll start by taking a step back Mister Secretary the FY twenty-six and for the south florida ecosystem restoration construction was four hundred and sixty one million dollars the army corps then said you were projecting fifty eight million in salaries and expenses for fy twenty six that left four hundred and three million in project funding according to the fy twenty six work plan looking at your fy twenty seven proposal your budget request lists the project at just two hundred and ninety five point eight million with an additional hundred and fifty million in salaries and expenses that combined total is still a cut from last fiscal year and that's a three-fold increase in salaries and expenses year over year so is it correct that the s fir project is receiving a cut in project funding but receiving an increase to a hundred and fifty point eight million in salaries or expenses yes or no

ma'am thank you for the question uh you've you've put your finger on the exact point that we're making with separation of project costs and salaries and expenses for the first time the administration is providing the legislative branch with transparency about how much of our projects costs are dedicated to the project and how much are dedicated to our internal salaries and your

ok if if i can just interrupt you for a second because

i'm sorry

uh i mean you're you're acknowledging how are you going from fifty million dollars fifty six million dollars in salaries and expenses from last fiscal year to a hundred and fifty million in this one um i mean is is is that what you're saying is that uh i mean where is the justification for a tripling of salaries and expenses

ma'am i would say that this is step one is to provide you on this committee and to provide to provide the executive branch with transparency about what you're buying and this is the exact question we

but but you're you're not answering my question how did we triple salaries and expenses from one fiscal year to the other

ma'am it

and still cut the programmatic funding

this is this is step one uh this is these are the numbers we were provided by the Jacksonville district for fy twenty six and fy twenty seven that are reflected in the president's budget the point here is to provide you with transparency so that we can ensure that we're maximizing uh the dollars that go to actual project costs

ok proclaiming my time cause you're not answering my question i don't understand how we went from fifty million to a hundred and fifty million in salaries and expenses in one fiscal year that's that's never happened and so i need an explanation for the record if you don't know the answer now on how that happened and i recognize some of these decisions were handed to you mister secretary but you have to understand this movement to separate out salaries and expenses and then suddenly request that this committee triple that amount for this project with no formal justification for floridians focused on everglades restoration that looks like padding bank accounts rather than restoring sheet flow um that that looks like what you're doing you're nodding your head i i certainly hope that's not what you're doing uh uh another question

i agree with you that that's what it appears to be and i think that that's something that we ought to tackle together we have the same goal here

well why why are you asking for a hundred and fifty billion dollars in salaries why you're tripling

ma'am

salaries and cutting so you're acknowledging you're tripling this you're proposing to triple the amount of salary we we provide and you're cutting the actual programmatic funding here

ma'am this is transparency that the committee has never had access to this is the whole point

it's your it's it's your proposal

we have never we have you

i i wanna know why where's the justification

this is this is information that was hidden from you in previous budget requests we're providing it to you so that you so that we can have this conversation

ok you had a budget request it was your budget request last year also so i i that makes no sense to me

this this spans administrations it goes back

ok

decades we're providing you with it

reclaiming my time we i we're gonna have lots of other opportunities to talk

unprecedented

you you're not you you're you're actually making it more opaque uh under your fy twenty seven budget request can you tell this committee that not one single project for south florida ecosystem restoration will be cancelled delayed or reworked due to a lack of funding cause you're cutting the funding in this proposal

ma'am uh we share the goal of restoring the

can you commit that you are not cutting cancelling or delaying or reworking any south florida ecosystem restoration project

ma'am i'm not aware of any any any action in this budget that would do that

ok we're we're being asked now to underfund this this project to make room for grotesque salary increases uh for cuts to actual investment which is the first time in in in my memory that we'd be going in the wrong direction on the investment we're making in this restoration uh i have a project to see eleven canal in my hometown of weston that is being delayed and now we're knowingly being asked to pour gas on that fire um mr. secretary um um really worried that you got some road color glasses on right now under the current funding levels we already see shovel ready projects like the c eleven project in my hometown of weston being delayed because of resource allocation issues um what's the goal of this change transparency i understand but there's a tripling are you saying that before the salaries and expenses were really much much higher and it wasn't being that that that was not being factually represented in previous budget requests.

Ma'am, prev- uh, until the fiscal year twenty seven budget request and the fiscal year twenty six budget request, the administration had never shared with Congress or even looked itself at what

Including your administration.

It it and and this goes back decades.

OK.

Had never had an honest assessment of what portion of the project costs that you provide are going to district salaries and expenses.

But I need to understand why you're cutting program funding for everglades restoration that's what's proposed in this request

the fiscal year twenty twenty seven budget request for everglades restoration is four hundred and forty six million dollars total when you include salaries and expenses which is the exact same amount as the

but but the portion to restore the everglades is cut it is a cut less money is being asked for this year

no ma'am the the budget request for fiscal year twenty six is four hundred and forty six million dollars and this budget includes four hundred and forty six million dollars

even separating that out the two hundred and ninety five uh million dollars that you're asking for is less than you asked for last year Less.

It's less than the work plan, yes ma'am. We did not provide this information during the fiscal year twenty twenty six request. We are providing transparency into the separation between project costs and salary so that we can have the conversation we're having now which I think is important.

Mr. Secretary, I I'm I'm out of town.

We agree with you.

I'm out I'm out of time, but you got a lot of explaining to do to folks in the state of Florida, both Republicans and Democrats. I yield back the balance of my time.

Thank you. Mister Newhouse, you're recognized.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Appreciate all of you being here today, uh, and joining, joining our Hearing? Um Assistant Secretary Travnik, good to see you. Uh, as you know, the twenty twenty four retreat fire devastated the Yakima Valley in Washington State in my district, burning more than forty five thousand acres in its wake and severely damaging what's known as the Yakima-Tia-Tin irrigation canal. This canal, which is over a hundred and ten years old and at risk of catastrophic failure support supports over seven hundred million dollars in annual crop revenue and provides residential water supply and public safety, fire suppression, uh, water to various communities. So I was pleased that the Bureau, in accordance with the FY twenty-six Energy and Water Appropriations Act, declared the wildfire damaged and landslide imperiled, uh, state of the canal as an emergency, uh, which is required to receive certain emergency funding, as you know. The next directive of that legislation is provide financing to the local irrigation district which i understand is the step that bor is currently uh undertaking so in addition to the damaged canal the the yakima valley is experiencing what's now the fourth consecutive year of drought conditions and so uh i'm truly gravely concerned that about the risk of catastrophic failure and can't emphasize to you enough the importance of this financing in ensuring that water delivery to the to the region is not negatively impacted i also understand that bor had a uh a team look at the canal over the winter uh which i hope provided an idea of the construction timing and associated financing needs so with all that said uh as as a background could you provide an update on where bor is in this process and additionally uh i know we only have a few minutes here i would like to set up a meeting with you and your staff after this hearing to discuss how we can assist in the process as i i have to emphasize uh strongly that repairing this vital waterway remains one of my top priorities

right no thank you representative newhouse yeah we know how serious that fire was to the infrastructure up there and and in the state um reclamation continues to wanna be a strong partner with with the district and with with the state overall uh you're you're exactly right we did have a a team go out in february to assess the situation um just try to see what those impacts were overall uh there's been a report that's been pulled together uh the end of march here um so that's where we do recognize that yes qualifies for that the conditional uh emergency extraordinary maintenance uh we were looking at the aging infrastructure dollars to be able to to put towards that some of the remaining dollars that still exist and uh with working through uh reclamation the department of the interior uh we're able to get approval on that Um, so we'll be able to update your staff on that. We were able to find that out this week. Um, so I do think we've got some funding that can be able to assist with this.

I look forward to that meeting. Appreciate that.

Great. Thank you.

Thank you. Um, um, Mr. Tell and Mr. Graham, um, as you probably understand, as a result of catastrophic, massive flooding along the Columbia River shoreline in the nineteen forties and fifties, well, well before our time, uh, the Army Corps acquired land along the Columbia River in the Tri-Cities, to provide flood control for the area. Since that time, local governments have leased much of this land from the Corps, as we've talked about, and they have operated a lot of it as public parks. Much has changed uh since the nineteen forties and fifties, and there's no longer a need for the Corps to continue owning uh most of this land. A group of local governments and tribes in central Washington uh has worked together to develop a plan that supports a transfer of this land out of federal ownership. ensuring that treaty rights and cultural resources will remain uh protected. This is uh uh it's a result of the efforts of this group that a legislative solution has been proposed to codify this plan. And I certainly appreciate the engagement of the Walla Walla and Portland districts uh that you've had uh with this group uh to discuss some of the more technical elements of making this happen. But I bring this uh uh uh uh to your attention because this effort has been, as you know, years in the making, uh, countless meetings, um, and it's been truly fantastic to see that these groups have come to get together to develop um a solution that benefits all parties. So thanks to the, to you, to the Corps, uh, for your work so far on this effort, uh, and I hope that the working group will continue to receive the strong that will be necessary uh from the district uh at the regional and the headquarters level. If you care to comment on any of that I'd be appreciate it very much.

So very briefly I'll just say that um these are types of real estate issues or some of the most challenging issues we deal with. Quite often when the corps of engineers owns real estate it's for the purpose of uh flooding it in extreme conditions and so quite often uh maybe a parcel straddles that line between what we intend to flood in an extreme condition and what we don't. uh building infrastructure not paperwork our reform agenda rolled out earlier this year really focuses on delegating particularly recreation our very important recreation programs to uh non-federal sponsors state and local concessionaires to deliver better recreation for the public and so uh to the degree that we can achieve that here while also ensuring that we're not uh putting people in harm's way in extreme conditions we're committed to sorting this out general graham

yeah but general absolutely for the great working relationship with the tribes and the tri-cities. If we don't need this land, we certainly wanna get it back in the hands of folks that can put it to good use. So I'm pretty pleased with the working relationships that we have right now. You know, there's some environmental nuances that we're working through, particularly with the cities and the tribes.

Sure.

But I believe that the cooperative teamwork that you seek is taking place, and and our commitment to you is to continue to advocate for that.

Yep. Appreciate that very much. I appreciate your your attitude and helpfulness in this. Thank you. Um, thank you, Mister Chairman. I've gone over. I appreciate your forbearance.

Yes, sir. Mister Levin.

Thank you so much, Mister Chairman. Uh, the Army Corps Civil Works program has a long history of working collaboratively with Congress to deliver for all Americans. And for years my office has enjoyed enjoyed a great relationship with the LA District, South Pacific Division and with headquarters. This collaboration has meant that when the San Clemente shoreline project encountered hurdles. We worked with all levels of the Corps to adapt and complete the project. I fear the success story wouldn't be possible this year, though, because of a recent memo from the Department of Defense restricting communication between the Corps and Congress resulting in significant bottlenecks. For example, when my team reached out to the Corps regarding emergency conditions in the Oceanside Harbor it took the Corps two full weeks to respond despite despite the severity of the situation and in the months since My staff have experienced delays in receiving information we needed for the WERDA process and the fiscal twenty-seven appropriations process. When my office asked about project capabilities, they were told repeatedly that capabilities would be communicated in the president's budget request after congressional deadlines. Well, the budget request came out last week and it zeroed out funding, zeroed out funding for the Oceanside Harbor project. Maintaining accessibility of this harbor is essential as it serves commercial users and military vessels entering and exiting Camp Pendleton, obviously a key military installation. The Corps' own website states that the Corps, quote, "dredges this entrance channel on an annual basis", end quote. It has since come to light that this project needs four point three million dollars in fiscal twenty-seven. So, Assistant Secretary Tell, can you explain to me how exactly defunding this project supports the Army Corps' mission to secure our nation, energize our economy, and reduce disaster risk.

Sir, thank you for the question, and uh this is a this is an important project. I think we have a uh we've had some recent, I know General Kelly, uh the Deputy uh Deputy uh Commander of of the Corps recently walked this project. Um, this is something that we are working closely on. There's been issues related to the preferences of the non-federal sponsor here w- related to the use of groins, or not. I think that is something that we have recently worked through. that was a a key inhibitor to the ability to move ahead together, and I think we've got a new plan that gets us there. General Graham, I don't know if you wanna add anything to that.

Sure, I think we're we're in good shape for FY twenty-six with the additional money that, um, was put there. So we're gonna get the harbor dredged to its maintenance depth and we'll continue to make our best technical recommendation for twenty-seven to maintain, uh, this important harbor, as you said.

Way to get zeroed out for fiscal twenty-seven.

Sir, uh uh we'll get back to you with that answer, but there were there had been ongoing discussions between the Corps and the non-federal sponsor about the design of the project. I think we've had a recent breakthrough that'll help inform resource needs going forward.

I think if it were up to you guys, I don't think it would be zeroed out. The only conclusion that I can draw from this is that OMB is calling the shots. Uh, and I think they have unilaterally decided it's not worth funding work to access a criti- critical military base in California. That's the only conclusion I can draw. And because DOD has restricted communications with us, we were unable to identify and support funding for the project. You guys understand how the timeline works, so I'd like to remind everyone Congress alone has the authority under Article one to legislate, to fund, to oversee the armed forces, including the Army Corps of Engineers. And we've gotta have the necessary information about project capabilities, so that Congress can do its job. And that was not the case here, and I'm sure I'm not alone. Uh, we make the funding decisions. Russ Vogt does not decide. We decide. That's what the Constitution requires. Uh, Assistant Secretary Teller, are you aware of the language in the fiscal twenty-six energy and water explanatory statement that directed your office to ensure the timely delivery of information including project capabilities to Congress, without delays, interference, or prior clearance from DOD or OMB?

Yes, sir, I am aware of that language and uh we are working to to coordinate with the inter-agency to make sure we can get you as much information as we possibly can while being compliant with

Respe- respectfully uh, sir secretary, why then is the Army Corps consistently continuing to stifle information, at least to my team, I presume others, um, on a consistent basis? How do you square that?

Sir, we're not we're not stifling information. Um, our goal is to get you an uh information that you can count on that's dependable, so that the right hand and the left knows what's happening. We want to get you consistent.

Respectfully, sir, when I hear from my team that they are being stifled, I hear from you that they're not. I'm gonna trust my team on this one. So I'd ask you to look into it, cuz that's certainly the feedback I'm getting from my team.

Yes, sir, I'll just say Chairman Fleischman has been on us about this, uh, about getting this information. This is something that we've been working with him on a daily basis to try, uh, to get you as much information as we can. He's been a tremendous advocate for the subcommittee. in this regard uh i think hearing your concerns and we hear them as well so thank you

i'll i'll just conclude by saying you guys have to maintain good faith communication with us this is not optional uh it is required under the law and we have a right as congress to direct and timely information and this is about the life and property that you guys are trying to protect

sir i would just

it's it's not acceptable

sir i would just offer anytime that you aren't getting the information you need i'm available to you general graham is available to you

that have been great about six weeks ago

just let us know um we're here

ok we will we will yield back mr. chairman thank you

and if i may for the benefit of my colleague and friend uh assistant secretary tell has properly reflected to the committee and to you sir um in in his answer that is absolute one hundred percent correct so thank you sir um at this point in time i'd like to the distinguished chairman of the ethics committee uh uh mr guest from mississippi thank you

mmm yeah thank you mr. chairman uh to our witnesses uh thank you for being here today uh special thanks to you secretary tell for your history of service uh to our home state of mississippi uh you and i had the opportunity to visit before the hearing started uh about your recent trip to mississippi leading a delegation uh from the pentagon there to the arctic facility located in vicksburg And and just wanna ask uh if you would take a minute to talk a little bit about the ERDC facility I know that's one of four across the country uh about the important work uh that they do uh and then uh how we as Congress uh can help uh promote uh uh what I would say would be a a hidden gem uh wi- wi- with within your agency. So could you just talk about ERDC for just a couple of minutes and again uh I know that wasn't in your testimony but uh it is something important to our state and something that I really wanted to highlight uh because uh i think that they're doing phenomenal work there at all the arctic facilities across the country.

Uh yes sir congressman yes and thank you for giving us the opportunity to talk about this. Uh the engineer research and development center which is of course uh the corps of engineers research arm is headquartered in vicksburg mississippi, it has labs throughout the nation um that help contribute in every aspect of our uh work. General Graham wears uh multiple hats as the chief uh of the corps of engineers on the civil works side that deals with america's water infrastructure and on the military program side that really deals with our military infrastructure and quite often our war fighting the core of engineers contributions to the war fighting mission uh all that work goes together even though the urtic facility is really founded as a civil works uh r and d facility that was really built around preventing floods like the tragic flood of nineteen twenty seven um it the the expertise that was developed there in terms of soil composition what types of concretes are best suited for flood risk management management infrastructure that wound up translating over to the military program side of the house and that expertise uh really wound up um blossoming there this understanding of how uh soils behave when they're confronted with water how concretes behave when they're um when uh projectiles hit them it really um it it really became something that the entire army uses now uh to do the world class r and d on these subjects And earlier this week on Tuesday, uh, I was delighted to have the Assistant Secretary of the Army for Acquisitions, Logistics and Techs uh, Technology as well as the Assistant Secretary of the Army for Installations, Energy and the Environment join me down at Ertig to understand how the Civil Works mission, how our MilKom programs and how our war fighting programs all intermingle there at Ertig. It's something that we need to do a better job of explaining. It's something that we need to make sure that we're res- properly resourcing. Uh, Ertig is a world-class research facility in a proud place, Vicksburg. it's rumored has the highest per capita V PHDs of any community in America. So, uh, you got a lot to be proud of there, sir.

Well, look, thank you, and, and look, please let us know what we can do, um, to help, um, the Army Corps, uh, to, uh, and make that facility, uh, uh, again, you talk about it being a first class facility, but what, what we can do to promote the work that they're doing, uh, and incorporate that, uh, across, um, uh, the government structure. Um, uh, I really believe, uh, I've been there, I've visited, uh i've seen first hand uh the incredible work that they do and i wanna continue to be a champion uh for uh the arctic facilities across the country uh last question um very briefly wanna talk a little bit about uh the lock and dam infrastructure particularly along the mississippi river uh the tongvigby waterway um we have seen that many of those structures uh have uh either met or in some cases exceeded and surpassed uh their life and kinda wanna talk and see if y'all can give me a little information uh about the course plan uh to address uh the lock and dam system along these waterways and then what we can do to maintain the system's integrity uh because look uh i understand and and know how important that is uh to commerce uh for us to be able to move goods up and down the river how important uh that those lock and dam structures play um and again uh we did a great job building those in some cases almost a century ago, uh, but, uh, they are, uh, becoming, uh, aging, uh, over time, and really need to make sure that we are focusing on, uh, not only maintaining, uh, but rebuilding, uh, that infrastructure. So I know I've got about thirty seconds, so turn it over to anyone that would like to address that.

I'll let General Graham, uh, discuss some of the specifics, but I'll just say this. The America's inland waterway system, our inland waterway navigation system is the envy of the world. no other nation has an inland waterway system, which is the most efficient form of transportation. It opens up our entire country to the global economy. Um, the, you think about the upper Midwest, you think about areas in your state and in the Tennessee Valley. And the uh, Tennessee-Tonbiggie Waterway, I'll just say is a critical connector between the Tennessee River, which is um, uh, you know, it which it feeds into the Ohio River and then down the Mississippi. Uh, it allows the Tennessee River to have access uh straight down uh, in into the Tom Bigby River and and ultimately through uh Mobile Bay in Alabama. Um, and so this redundancy that we have in this um, in this uh North-South uh route is what the Tentom provides for the nation. It ensures that if the Mississippi River is down for some reason, if it's a low water in the Mississippi River, we have an alternate route. And I'll let General Graham uh talk any specifics.

Um, and I'll go fast um represent you're absolutely right, the the failures we had at uh holt and demopolis are absolutely unacceptable we are not providing right now a reliable transportation network to this key and booming part of the country so this all starts with identifying um what's the state of the current or this current infrastructure and we've got a robust asset management program that does that and that asset management program is all underpinned by great research and development last time i was down at holt we're putting galvanic protection on the

thank you and sorry for running over mr. chairman i yield back

thank you sir at this time i'd like to recognize the distinguished vice chair of this subcommittee from texas mr. cloud

Thank you, Chairman. Uh, appreciate you having this hearing and thank you witnesses for being here. Uh, really do appreciate um, the difference we're seeing with this administration compared to what we've seen in the past, a real proactive approach based on getting stuff done. Um, I recall times in the past where, you know, it was just it was very difficult to get things done. It's it's a big difference when you're working with administration that's doing things right. trying to get the yes versus an administration that's uh looking for every reason to get the no uh and specifically uh secretary your uh approach on let's get projects done not just exist to create paperwork and and to kind of spin the plate of procedural uh activity uh and and it's make a big difference it's extremely important for our country and especially and i've said this before when we think about the army corps in the past uh us having a very proactive approach that we're in a race against china on infrastructure and building capabilities um and so i i wanna thank you for that uh when i talk to people all over the country they can see the difference uh and it's gonna put us in a strong position going forward um wanted to talk about a couple issues that are relevant in in my district but also national priorities one is the membership channel i know you're very aware well aware of it the previous administration unprecedentedly uh rescinded the record of decision first time for a congressionally approved project that had ever been done in history really to kind of put this project back at zero you've done a lot of work in kind of playing catch up for the previous administration wanna thank you all uh for that wanna know what else is left for us to be done uh in congress how important that this get in to war two twenty twenty six anything else we can do uh from a congressional standpoint even i i know one of the challenges is even the availability of dredges for example which we can throw more money, but that doesn't mean there's more drudges necessarily, unless we work on that issue. Anything we could be doing, kind of in the the how can we help you help us uh category.

Sir, you're absolutely correct and I was very pleased to to visit Matagorda um uh a few months ago. I mean if you just think for a minute about um what it would mean to our country, if we could have a port that currently um on the Gulf of America and Texas that currently uh is not performing up to its capability. And we could add an asset to our economy, to our ability to export, um, petroleum products. I mean, this is an, uh, a key opportunity, and this is one of the most difficult areas to navigate along the entire Gulf of America. Um, and you, your advocacy for the Mattergorge ship channel is well placed, and we totally agree. Uh, the FY twenty-six, uh, work plan, uh, included significant funding for this project. Um, you and I are in very close touch about what else may be needed and um, in in in close touch with your constituents as well and so, we really look forward to working through this as we get into the design phase, uh, here. Uh, General Graham, anything to add on Matiborda?

Right. Our commitment to you, representing the cloud, is that we're gonna get the validation report and the Packer update in to Word of Twenty six. Right now our time-line is to finish no later than thirty-one July, and our commitment to you is to make that.

Appreciate it. Thank you. Uh, you all being really great to work with on this, and again thank you. I wanted to uh touch on one thing with you you probably guess what it is in in the region uh we're in severe droughts uh in the gulf coast region corpus christi specifically we've been working on desalination uh we've been able in in legislation to begin the stand up of a uh a water technology um center of excellence for the gulf of america um to really bring a focus to what needs to be done along the coast for for desalination for best use of water technology and the like uh you all have been very helpful again in in what we need to do to bring a solution to this the president was down recently talked about hey we need to get this done uh wanted to ask uh you i i know one specific request is the city is is working and preparing uh for application to the uh uh the smart water program um and our water smart program. And uh as of yesterday our understanding is that they've submitted everything they need. I was wondering if you could speak to maybe the time line and decision on that, anything else we need to be doing to make sure that becomes a priority. I I mean you know how important it is to all the industry there, uh supplier of jet fuel for the country, uh strategic from a national security standpoint and the like. Uh but but we're running out of water. So.

No, thank you for the question, Representative Cloud. Uh, yeah, we know that we're seeing drought across the West and of course as it's impacting Texas. So, do you sell, yeah, we're gonna have to all be leaning in, trying to make sure that we're using that tool in the toolbox and trying to figure out where those opportunities are. Uh, so you're exactly right. We've been tracking really closely the the feasibility study. Uh, so I know that there's been multiple conversations with Reclamation just to make sure that you've got all all the pieces in there. Um, so I've been tracking very closely as well. Uh, also, yes, the there's gonna be a notice of funding opportunity. We're we're working through that where there'll be a hundred and twenty million dollars. that will be available uh for the application process. Uh, I know that there was some discussion last time too where I think there was a cap on it, so we're also looking for opportunities to possibly remove that cap. Um, so don't know the exact uh timing as it relates to if there's anything else with your feasibility study but please know I'm tracking it very closely to make sure if there's any issues I'll make sure to follow up.

Thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, Mike.

Thank you, Mr. Vice Chairman. Uh, Miss Malloy, the Distinguished Chair of the Western Caucus, is recognized for her questions.

Thank you. Um Assistant Secretary Travenick, I'm I'm gonna start off on a really positive note. I wanna say thank you. The central Utah project is really important to Utah um and the announcement of funding to enclose the strawberry highline canal is going to be good for water conservation but it's also going to save uh failures of that canal and and houses that are below it in the south part of Utah County, so thank you for that. Um I do have a question about Does the department anticipate a second round of five zero five zero one awards this year?

Um, so, thank you for the the question, uh, Representative Malloy. Um, so we were working through that as well. So we're looking at those opportunities,

OK.

are those available funds? Um, so that's something that I can follow up on with you just to see what that time frame might look like.

OK. OK, that'd be great. Um, I was going to request a follow-up meeting at the end of my questions anyway,

OK.

so we'll just

All right, perfect.

I'll cross that off my list. Um, the Great Salt Lake, the the state, it's spending a lot of resources on that it's another thing that's really important in utah besides being a large part of our identity um it's also a big part of the ecosystem and the water levels are declining uh uh we were really happy to see the president talking on social media about making the great salt lake great again and including it in the presidential budget um and i just i i want to ask if you will work with us and find ways to make sure that we're getting the most out of this opportunity where where it's a high priority for the administration, it's a high priority for our governor and our state legislature. Um, we need to get something done there. I just would love to work with you moving forward on making sure we're doing the right things to get us long-term results on the lake and not just uh a short burst of activity that makes everybody feel better.

No, exactly. You're right. Uh, it's uh definitely a high priority for the administration, also very high priority for the Department of the Interior. So we know how important that lake is to to the state, also to the region. end of the country.

Yeah.

So we are gonna be actively engaged, uh, not only working with our bureaus internally, but also working with the the other departments, uh, and closely with the state and the other partners as well. So so we are all in to try to figure out how to assist in any way.

OK. Alright. We will be following up on that. Thank you. That was easy.

Great. Thank you.

Um, Assistant Secretary Tell. Uh, I have some questions from constituents of mine about WOTUS, Waters of the United States. After the Supreme Court's Sackett decision, uh, the the federal government doesn't have jurisdiction over a lot of areas that used to have jurisdiction over uh but now the jurisdiction determinations are sometimes slowing down projects. Could you just speak to how often the court requires an entity to obtain an approved jurisdictional determinate determination or letter of non-jurisdiction before proceeding rather than allowing a preliminary jurisdiction determination so an an AJD instead of a PJD uh And has that changed since Sackett?

Ma'am, thank you for raising this important issue. The Sackett decision um, clarified uh, in a way that has never happened uh, since the Clean Water Act of nineteen seventy-two has enacted what uh, the law means as it relates to our role in permitting activity within waters of the United States. Uh, as a result of that decision in March of last year, uh, we issued guidance to our districts about how to adhere to SACKIT. That's in place now. We're in the process, working with our partners at the Environmental Protection Agency, uh, and developing a final rule that is adherent to the SACKIT decision. As you keenly point out, uh, jurisdictional determinations are quite often the first step. Am I in a water of the United States where I need a permit or am I not? And this budget and the building infrastructure not paperwork agenda is going to provide tools that will make that process much uh faster. Um, we have inconsistency across our thirty nine civil works district about how we apply uh jurisdictional determinations related to waters of the United States. Uh, we want to make that consistent. Whatever district you're in you're gonna get an answer that is uh consistently adherent to the law of the land uh in and in accordance with the Sackett decision. Um, and so I would just say uh in in the budget before you is our is our resources to speed uh those determinations so that we can get down to letting americans uh carry out the economic activity and the personal activity that they would like to carry out uh while complying with the clean water act of nineteen seventy two

ok thank you i appreciate that i'm almost out of time i will just say i get a lot of sort of general complaints about how slow the corps is to respond uh if you'll work with us on addressing that making sure that that people feel like they're being responded to in a timely manner, I would be happy to help you solve that problem. Um, and thank you all for being here. I appreciate your testimony.

Ma'am, absolutely. Thank you. Um, uh, this is, it's critical that we get folks' answers as quickly as we can.

Thanks, and I yield.

Thank you. Mister Mervin.

Thank you, Chairman. Uh, thank you for being here today, Assistant Secretary, and uh, individuals from the Army Corps. Appreciate it. Uh, the Army Corps has a long history of delivering water infrastructure development. projects critical to navigation resource management and public health for maintaining our commercial recreational resources uh in ensuring residents have clean drinking water the army corps the chicago district has been an unparalleled federal partner in the effort to facilitate economic development in northwest indiana which sits at the epicenter of vital networks and the great lakes ensuring that these civil work projects are well funded is not just a local matter indiana harbor and burns waterway harbor service a majority industrial manufacturing hub and the largest oil refinery in the midwest and the nation's largest concentration of steel production furthermore these harbors are the are the keystones of the corps great lakes navigation mission in october the administration issued a directive that limited communications between local corps districts and congressional offices and therefore limited my office's ability to work closely with our core district to understand the specific budgetary needs in the harbors. So my question is simple, can you assure me that there are adequate resources provided for operating in the maintenance and salaries to over and overhead to ensure that the Corps is fulfilling its navigational mission in the Lake in Great Lakes?

Uh Congressman, sir, uh absolutely, uh the President's budget adequately funds uh those operation and maintenance activities um at the Chicago District that are important to your district uh and for the first time in history as has been discussed today. uh the salaries and expenses that you've referenced are provided to this committee uh in an effort to have transparency around what it is you're buying

so obviously there's a theme right that has gone around and and and just in plain speak tell me was there a lack of transparency and what effect did that i wanna give you an opportunity for me to understand that this major change uh how has you're using transparency as a benefit

It's true.

to something i don't quite understand as a benefit. So, my question to you is, why is it so vitally important for you to do that?

Yes, sir. Thank you for the opportunity to explain it. Um, historically, if you look at the the data, and this is one of the first questions I asked when I uh, walked into this job. Um, historically, one third, if if Congress appropriates money for a vital water infrastructure project, About one third of that, so if you think about a hundred million dollar project, about thirty three million dollars, um, goes to pay the salaries and expenses of our district staff, in delivery of that project. About sixty seven million dollars, uh, goes to actually deliver the project. Um, that was hidden from decision makers in the executive branch and the Congress. And in my view, Congress ought to have and decision makers in the executive branch ought to have, an understanding of when they appropriate a hundred million dollars to a project, uh, how much of that project is going to deliver the project and execution and how much of it is going to pay the salaries.

My question is though, I get the transparency, but wasn't the army corps overseeing that? Isn't part of the transparency for the cost of the projects to be understood and the cost of inflation and those salaries, isn't that a a core responsibility that you have?

Absolutely, sir. And uh nothing in this the way that we we presented the budget changes those resources it just simply provides you with more information with which to make decisions

ok clearly noted uh the president's budget requests uh five point six million indiana harbor two hundred and forty thousand for burns waterway including salaries and expenses this represents six point five million and one point four million cut from fiscal year twenty twenty six enacted levels respectively since the people on the ground doing this work have been directed not to share information with me can you tell me in detail why there is such a significant cut for funding of the civil works projects for these critical critical harbors

uh congressman i'm happy to get back to you with that answer i don't have that in front of me today um general graham i don't know if you have further information on that but on those particular harbors i don't have that information other than to say that the president's budget budget adequately funds operation and maintenance for those harbors

except there's cuts

congressman when we're developing the budget request on an annual basis, we look at a number of factors. Uh, where in the pipeline of work are we? Um, there are a number of factors that might make a budget, um, go up or down in a given year.

OK. Um, in in the communication side of things,

Yes, sir.

how is it advantageous for the local community, boots on the ground, and I was a local elected official for fifteen years, to be able to cut off communications with a member of Congress that works very well with the Army Corps of Engineers, I produce the our region produces the most steel in the region. We have one third largest oil refinery in Northwest Indiana. It is vitally important for me to be able to communicate locally to those leaders who know those projects best instead of to going to a bureaucracy of individuals who don't I need a real case of clarity on how that's to my advantage or my constituent's advantage.

Sir, there has been no cut off of communications between uh well,

No, there has.

look, I'll just say that uh the secretary of war issued a memo Under the same.

Right, so you re- redistrict, you you basically, for you to say there's been no cutoff of communications is inaccurate. There has been. And I'm not blaming you, but let's just call it what it is.

Uh, I would just say that, um, the secretary of war's memo took time for our organization to fully, uh, implement, and during that period of time I think there was some hesitancy on on our employees' part to engage with Congress before we understood, before they understood the new normal. And I think that we have largely addressed that today. I don't think that there is a gap in communications. Now there are cert- certain types.

So you're, and my time is up.

Go ahead. Sorry.

And and so yes, no, your testimony is that I can call my district office, ask a communicative question about how we should do projects in the future and how projects are going. They will answer me.

Absolutely, sir, except in the case where it violates an administration rule like omb circular a eleven which administration officials are required to adhere to

thank you for your time i go back appreciate it

thank you um while time permits uh i'd like to thank my colleagues on both sides of the dais and our witnesses for very thoughtful and complete answers and the like um we can start a second round before votes are called at eleven thirty ish um So, uh, I will begin with myself again. General Graham, I'd like to call your attention to another issue of tremendous importance to my home state, Tennessee, preventing the spread of invasive carp further into the Tennessee and Cumberland rivers. I get constant calls in community meetings about this, particularly in counties such as like Roane County and and the like. Congress has upheld its commitment to section one O nine, Asian Car Prevention. including ten point five million dollars in fiscal twenty-six. Um, if I may, sir, uh, where are we on finalizing implementation and how are coordination's discussions with states like Tennessee and Kentucky over PPAs and the TVA authority over an MOA progressing and uh just in a in a general sense what's a realistic timeline to construct an invasive carp deterrent? thank you sir

uh chairman flushman thank you for that question and uh really delighted to see that ten point five million dollars and in fy twenty six and we plan to put that to good use we'll purchase the pilot equipment at berkeley uh lockenham and what we learn there we'll apply to the other locations in particular what we learned is you know had they they call it a fish disco we used all sorts of things um lights uh acoustics bubbler curtains and what we found is that and hopefully it won't get quoted on cspan with a fish disco um the acoustics uh were the most effective and so that's a great bit of understanding that we can then rapidly apply um for the other locations so we're still working through the kind of the funding challenges cause with the pulling all those states together that border the tennessee uh river system um we've gotta do that in accordance with the state laws and so we're working with some other entities that might allow us to do that. But our commitment is to take that money and put it to good use to prevent Asian carp from getting down to Cumberland in Tennessee.

Uh, Mister Chairman, if I might just add, there is there remains an interest in understanding whether there's a market uh for these invasive species uh that would incentivize um fishermen and others to remove them from the system. And so we're not gonna abandon that concept either. In fact, we're gonna we're gonna really explore that. Uh, it's been explored before, but we're gonna further explore it as our understanding of Asian carp has developed.

Thank you, and and uh Assistant Secretary Tello, I appreciate that, I I've even seen some culinary interest in in the Asian carp. Uh, so uh we wish you well on that endeavor in general and and well as as well. So thank you for that. In the interest of time um I think I am going to uh cease my questions and uh recognize the gentleman from California, Mister Levin.

I thank my friend, the Chairman. Um. Mister Tell, if an energy project is sited near wetlands, project developers need to obtain a water permit from the Corps. And historically, the Corps has processed Clean Water Act and Rivers and Harbors Act permit applications routinely. Um, Mister Chairman, I I ask for unanimous consent to enter in the record a report from Heat Map News. It's called " The Trump Administration is now delaying renewable projects it thinks are ugly." Can't make this up. Ask for unanimous consent to enter this article. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And the article details how the administration is transforming what was a routine process into one in which outcomes are based on an arbitrary density metric, which is really outside of any statutory framework, which effectively blocks only certain types of energy projects, would ha- ha- which happen to be solar and wind projects. Uh, and as the administration looks to do that, they're making our energy bills more expensive every single day. It it sort of defies logic during a time when bills are too high as it is. In September, says Secretary Tell, you issued a directive to prioritize the processing of permits for projects based on, and I quote, " energy density", end quote. That's a concept the administration is using to system systematically disadvantage uh, wind and solar. And the deprioritization tactic is affecting projects primarily on private lands, on private lands. That's different from the Interior Secretary, who doesn't want women, solar projects to advance on public lands. Now you have the Interior Secretary blocking these projects on projects on public lands. You have the Army Corps throwing up barriers for these projects on private lands, and again, all during a crisis of energy affordability and supply shortfalls. So with that is the context, as does Secretary Tell. How long does it now take for the Corps to process permits for wind and solar energy projects? And how does that differ from oil, gas and coal projects?

Uh, Congressman, I'm not aware of any uh specific data that um shows that the additional information that we are requiring for permit seekers for energy projects to understand our our land and particularly our land that are that is waters of the United States is pre- is a precious commodity for our nation.

The Corps doesn't keep any specific data on the length of the permit?

I'm happy to try to I'm I'm happy to try to provide you that information. I'm not aware of any data, but I will just say within the the the uh limited commodity, which is US lands, it is prudent to examine if we're going to uh permit an activity uh in a i- within our limited capacity of land that we look at the energy density. Are we going to are we going what uh level of energy production per acre is this project going to result in. It doesn't um, the directive doesn't say there's a cut-off if you don't produce a certain amount of energy per acre. It simply says it's a consideration that we ought to examine, uh, as we think about how to use this limited resource.

And um, what legal authority gives you the ability to consider energy density?

Uh, Congressman, I'll, I can get back to you with that question. Um, but it is Lawful.

Under what law?

The Clean Water Act of nineteen seventy-two permits the Corps of Engineer, uh, allows the Corps of Engineers to permit activity within waters of the United States.

Right, and and has it ever been used in this way to arbitrarily uh prevent

There are a number of factors that have been used over the years and changed over the years

OK.

that allow us to look at all types of factors when determining activity within waters

So acor according to court filings and and reporting

of the United States.

developers with projects that had been in the pipeline for a long time are being forced to completely reengineer their projects at costs of millions of dollars to avoid your jurisdiction entirely. And that extends timelines, it drastically reduces design design efficiency, and now developers are not only facing likely denial, they're increasingly deterred from even submitting applications to begin with. I would just put this in broader context. Makes no sense, given the situation in Iran, the closure of the state of Hormuz, it has revealed the shortcoming of relying solely on oil and gas, the need to diversify our energy sector with a focus on domestic clean energy, which is often less expensive and faster to bring online, uh, and, uh, every megawatt of this sort of energy that we add to the power grid helps to insulate the American consumer from the volatility of fossil fuels. So I would implore you, sir, reverse course on this and ensure that all energy projects

I think it's not reflective of reality.

What do you think is reality?

Reality is we have a limited resource, which is land, and we ought to, as we're considering how to use it, consider the activity that's going to take place on it and and what the benefit is to the public.

Well, I look forward to seeing and follow up to this line of questioning the legal uh theory upon which the corps is relying cause I don't think there is a concrete legal authority that you're relying on I don't think the clean water act or any other environmental statute does what you are saying that it does I think this is arbitrary and capricious and political and with that Mr. Chairman I'll yield back

thank you uh I'd like to recognize Vice Chairman Cloud for some questions

uh thank you chairman and I I appreciate that about energy because it is so important uh especially right now um and the need for us to have affordable energy you know when i think about you know different ways we get energy solar, wind, natural gas, clean coal uh and we talk about affordability it seems to me solar and wind are more expensive to produce uh we could throw nuclear in there as well which is uh extremely efficient uh i recall the biden administration is as reliable as natural gas uh is uh the biden administration literally put in their budget that we shouldn't spend anything uh that would help oil and gas uh and what that did to drive up gas prices in our our country was was ridiculous and so i i appreciate this administration taking a hard look and refocusing us on energy projects that matter on base load especially as we try to compete with china when it comes to the race to ai uh which is actually uh an energy production race um and we think about again what was labeled as energy projects under the biden administration we can include clean coal with which how much energy does uh i'm sorry carbon capture uh how much energy does carbon capture create for our country zero right so uh it actually costs communities a a lot of energy um and we were spending billions and billions and billions of dollars on that so i i just wanna thank you for being on the cutting edge of refocusing on us on affordable energy uh and and production uh and and thank you for that um what else uh can we be doing to help you refocus us on cheap and affordable energy

uh thank you congressman cloud the the first things that come to mind are um what we've done uh already uh to enable this uh more than one thousand energy permits have been approved um in accordance with president trump's executive order related to energy dominance uh by the corps of engineers uh since uh within the past uh year and a half but that's a huge step but i think about i go back to think uh projects like the matagorda ship channel in your district um our ability to compete in the twenty first century to insure that the united states of america remains the greatest nation in the history of the world is dependent on our ability to transit commerce over the most efficient means of transiting commerce man has ever created, which is the water. Uh, we cannot compete uh in the twenty-first century uh in a global economy in a very competitive atmosphere unless our uh arteries, which are our ports our inland ports, our coastal ports are deep and maintained. And the best thing that this subcommittee can do to help American energy dominance is to ensure that our navigation is competitive globally. It is an tremendous competitive advantage that we have as a nation, and we ought to use it for all that we can.

Before I recognize Miss Lee, I want to thank the Assistant Secretary. I could not agree with you more about the dredging and the need for for that for our channel. So thank you. And that will be a priority for the chairman as as well. So thank you. Uh, so that everyone knows, uh, they have called votes, but Miss Lee is here and I want to make sure that she has an

thank you thank you well thank you for offering me the opportunity to ask my questions

thank you

uh doctor travnik good to see you it is crunch time for negotiations on the colorado river specially in light of the worst drought we've seen in twelve hundred years and u. c. uh u. c. l. a. uh released a report recently or last year that emphasized that states across the colorado river basin are squandering a critical opportunity to ease the region's historic water crisis water recycling and reuse researchers found that just if the basin states were able to collectively raise reuse rates by forty percent to forty percent we could gain nearly nine hundred thousand acre feet of new water annually enough to supply nearly two million homes. Uh the Bureau of Reclamation's large scale water recycling program is scheduled to sunset this year. And I have a bipartisan bill with my colleague, Representative Juan Siskamani from Arizona that would reauthorize this program for another five years till uh from twenty twenty six to thirty one. Uh do you agree with me and Representative Siskamani that this program and similar efforts at the federal level level to support water recycling and reuse, represent essential tools in the reclamation's toolbox to partner with States like ours in tackling the Western water crisis.

Uh, good to see you. Yeah, thank you for the question, representative Lee. Good to see you. Uh, as you mentioned, right, we are seeing an extreme drought situation in the Colorado River system. Uh, we know that we've been working very closely with the seven basin States trying to get to a consensus agreement. um and we know that we have got to figure out those other opportunities to try try to find water within the system right whether that's conservation tools whether that's looking at the water reuse the desal so so to your to your question related to to water reuse i i know that nevada has been a strong strong leader within that uh also i know that we've been working really closely with a lot of the municipalities across the seven basin states

mmm

uh we do have a notice of funding opportunity that's that's out on the street right now too uh related to large scale water uh of the recycling projects um so so would definitely love to learn a little bit more about your bill and and and see what those opportunities might look like

uh so the question was do you believe if uh that this is essential i mean in light of it being i i hope that we can look at an opportunity to uh reauthorize this program and i'll move on to my next question which uh is about the hoover dam which will require more than two hundred million dollars in major plan investment over and above the routine uh operation of maintenance during the next uh decade. And during the last uh congress reclamation testified in support of my bipartisan bill help Hoover dam act to recover upwards of fifty million dollars in existing funding that's been collected from Hoover hydropower contractors to help address these needs which include for instance the the installation of new wide head turbines to maintain power generation at lower uh reservoir elevations, which is obviously something that we're entering into. Uh, I successfully was able to incorporate our bill into the final fiscal year twenty-six funding package. But the fact of the matter is that more more must be done to modernize the dam, both for it to be able to adapt to the current realities on the Colorado River as well as

Uh, no, thank you for the question and we really appreciate the support. We know how iconic, as you stated, the the Hoover Dam is to the to the whole system, to the country, to Colorado River, all the users. So we continue to look at what those efficiencies are, what those infrastructure needs are as we modernize it. So we've been working really closely with the power partners as well, uh, looking to see what those opportunities are to to make sure that we can get some of those wide head turbines uh replaced to make sure that they are efficient. So, uh, we continue to have it as a high priority, continue to wanna be able to work with Congress and with the partner the power partners as well.

Great, thank you. And now you.

OK. Um, we are about eight minutes left on votes. So, um, I'd like to, again, thank our witnesses for being here today. Uh, thank you for, again, your thoughtful and and thorough testimony before us. Um, a few housekeeping messages. Um, please ensure that the hearing record, questions for the record, and any supporting information requested by the subcommittee are delivered in final form to us, no later than four weeks from the time that you receive them members who have additional questions for the record will have until the close of business thursday to provide them to the subcommittee office and with that the subcommittee stands adjourned