Department of the Air Force Fiscal Year 2027 Budget Request

Committee will come to order. Today we close out our FY twenty-seven budget and posture hearings with the Department of the Air Force. I wanna thank the members for their hard work and dedication as we've uh worked through the dozens of hearings and briefings necessary to inform our approach to this year's National Defense Authorization Act. I also want to thank the department for their cooperation, as we've conducted uh this critical oversight function. I welcome our witnesses and thank them for their service to our country. Uh for too long we've underfunded defense. And now we're seeing the consequences. Our munitions are low, and we don't have enough aircraft and autonomous systems to ensure victory over every adversary. There have been unacceptable declines in readiness. And our defense industrial base has shrunk and is no longer capable of rapidly scaling production. That's why I'm so pleased to see the President is requesting a significant increase in the budget for the Air Force and the Space Force. This budget puts an end to the old divest to invest strategy and has done nothing but pit modernization uh against sustainment. The result of several years of that strategy is an Air Force that suffers today from unacceptably low mission capable rates while it continues to wait on the delivery of modernized assets that are still years away. This budget includes a twenty-three percent increase for operations and maintenance, crucial funding required to better sustain our legacy systems. The budget also invests in modernization with a fifty-four percent increase to develop and procure critically needed capabilities. It will enable us to accelerate key deterrent capabilities, including Golden Dome, B twenty-one, I'm very pleased to see the budget request for Space Force, which recognizes its growing importance as a war fighting domain. It enables the Space Force to increase its support to joint force and our combatant commanders. And it funds new mission areas like defending our space assets and breaking red kill chains. We cannot afford to be complacent when it comes to developing our capabilities in space. Our adversaries are well aware of the importance of base capabilities and the advantages they provide. I also want to highlight the increase uh in in this request for munitions and industrial base. These funding areas are especially critical to restoring American deterrence. We began some of that work last year with funds in reconciliation and the multi-year authority in the NDA A. I hope to hear about the Air Force's progress in implementing that authority and increasing production. Finally, I wanna hear uh how you plan to use the acquisition authorities given to you uh by this committee to make sure that that money is uh in the in the request will be well spent and uh accelerate capable capabilities to the war fighters. As we have seen recently in Operation uh Epic Fury and Operation uh Absolute Resolve, our air and space forces are central to the success of the joint force and our national security. Their personnel, capabilities, and readiness are crucial to our ability to prevail in conflicts of today and to tour our adversaries moving forward. I look forward to working with my colleagues to deliver a budget that will enable our Airmen and Guardians to continue to successfully fulfill their missions. Before I close, I'd like to uh thank General Saltzman for his uh many years of dedicated service and congratulate you on your upcoming retirement. With that, I yield to my friend, the ranking member, for a new opening statement he may have.

Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll I'll start where you ended off and thank General Saltzman for his service. He's been our Space Force uh Chief of Staff at a very crucial time, sort of the growing of of the Space Force and your leadership has been just incredible um in fighting through those challenges. Hasn't always been easy uh but I think you've put the Space Force on a very good path. And of course, be remiss if I didn't thank the Chairman and uh former Representative Jim Cooper for their leadership in creating Um, the theme of posture hearings has been really a continuation of the acquisition reform bill that we did last year. What we're really interested in is innovate faster at scale. How do we get there? The the chairman's right. We have critical shortages in munitions and capabilities. So how do we figure out how to innovate faster and get to scale on that? And the Air Force and the Space Force are crucial to that. Obviously, the Space Force is the center of a lot of that innovation. Um secure communications is crucial, space is gonna be a huge part of that. It's also becoming an incredibly important domain in order to project power and be able to defend our space assets as we know. So we wanna learn more about how Space Force is fitting into that. And then on the Air Force side, uh unmanned aerial vehicles are becoming more and more capable, more and more crucial to what we're doing. Um how does that mix with our plans for the F forty seven and uh fighter aircraft in general. So I wanna wanna know how we're learning from that. Um on the Golden Dome piece, I think the technology that goes into Golden Dome is ap- we were doing it already. I mean basic missile defense is crucial. Space is gonna be a key part of missile defense. My concern on Golden Dome is that we envision some perfect system um to perfectly protect the entire United States of America and we wind up bending ourselves into the ground, trying to accomplish something that at the end of the day is unachievable. Um, even Israel for all of their capability, protecting a tiny little small space. Um, some missiles get through. So how are we going to build the systems that don't make the perfect the enemy of the good? That enhance our capability in terms of missile defense and protecting areas, but don't imagine something that really isn't achievable. And that sort of comes down to the last point, and this is the, I think probably the only point of disagreement that I have with the chairman, and that's that's on the budget. Um, yeah, if we had more money, things would be better. Um, and you could walk through the entire government and make that statement. You know, we have, I don't know how many tens of millions of people without health insurance in this country, we have an education system that isn't where it needs to be, we have a very aging infrastructure. Um, certainly roads and bridges and airports, but water and sewer and all manner of different things. And many of those things are way behind as well. We also have our debt at over a hundred percent of GDP. I think for only the second time uh since the end of World War Two. We do not have an infinite amount of resources. Um and imagining that we do, I think gets us into a real problem of trying to do more than we're capable of, just in general, um even if we were doing it. Um but it also, you know, i- it's just unrealistic given where the budget is at. So I'll close, you know, with my second point, which was innovate faster at scale. what I'm interested in, how can that achieve our objectives in a more cost-effective manner? Because as frustrating as it is not just be able to have as much resources as you want, that's the world we live in. So we have to figure out how can we build the systems, how can we find systems that give us a real advantage? We've seen that in our counter drone mission. You know, I there was a I was reading an article today, critical of the Pentagon for, you know, the classic shooting down a thirty thousand dollar drone, you know, with a three million dollar uh missile. But now, We have a fifteen thousand dollar system, the Mirob system, that's doing the same thing. We innovate it. We got to something that got achieved it and and how much money is that saving us? That enables us to do more and meet our national security needs. So I hope we'll hear about that as well. And with that, I yield back.

I thank thank the ranking member. Now I'll introduce our witnesses. Um, first we have the Honorable Troy Mink, Secretary of the Air Force. Uh, General Kenneth Wilsbach is the Air Force Chief of Staff and uh General Chance Saltzman,

Uh, thank you Chairman Rogers, uh, I recognize Smith and distinguished members of the committee. Uh, thanks for the opportunity to come down and walk through the FY twenty-seven Department of the Air Force's budget request. I'm proud to represent the six hundred and eighty thousand airmen, guardians and civilians of the Department of the Air Force, as well as their families and loved ones. After the events of the past year, Operation Net hammer, absolute resolve, and now epic fury. I don't think there's any doubt that the Air Force and Space Force are the most capable in the world but today we are in the middle of a generational shift in how we employ air and space power advances in autonomy adaptive manufacturing, AI, microelectronics, and more give us a unique opportunity to drive down costs and drive up effectiveness across the board. However, our adversaries recognize that opportunity every bit as much as we do. Those adversaries, particularly China, are modernizing at a very rapid pace. To stay ahead, we must innovate faster in everything we do. That means staying ready not just to fight tonight, but next month, next year, and next decade. Unfortunately, over the past twenty-five years, the DAF's budget has been the smallest relative to GDP in its history. At the same time, the nation has asked more of it. To meet its mission's need, the DAF was forced to shortchange both foundational readiness and much-needed modernization. The fiscal year twenty twenty-seven President's budget breaks that pattern with a three hundred and thirty-eight point eight billion dollar request for the DAF, a thirty-four percent increase from last year. I'll start with our investment to win the fight tonight, foundational readiness. Boosting readiness requires increased and stable funding particularly given the age of many of our platforms. The FY twenty-seven budget increases our foundational readiness investment by thirty-four percent, providing the jump needed to truly recover. We're also looking at ways to operate more efficiently by accelerating decision-making, reducing barriers to entry for industry, and leveraging innovative contract structures. The gasoline budget over the years has also resulted in a fifty billion dollar facilities maintenance backlog. This is compounded by the way we have traditionally done MilKon, which results in costs more than double that of the commercial world. To reverse this, the FY seventy twenty-seven budget request nearly doubles investments in both MilKon and facilities sustainment, restoration, and modernization, which we will couple with new authorities we've gotten from Congress, thank you, such as Progressive Design Builders. Second, production, particularly munitions. While we retain enough munitions worldwide to meet mission mission needs, we need strong factory lines to sustain and bolster our stockpiles. Therefore, this budget leverages existing commercial production capacity and takes full advantage of multi-year procurement for our most critical munitions totaling thirty nine thousand weapons of all types by F Y thirty-three. We are also developing weapons almost as capable as our higher munitions, but at a fraction of the cost with much higher production rates. Also note that while money in this request is essential, time is one of our most precious resources, and the department will focus on companies that can quickly scale production, while still broadening the industry base to ensure competition in the future. That leads me to number three, modernization. The DAF is currently engaged in the broadest program of modernization in its history. While not every is gone perfect, we have already seen a lot of successes with the new proliferated space architectures, the collaborative combat aircraft, F forty-seven, B twenty-one, and our command and control and battle management systems. The FY twenty-seven budget request accelerates those successes and applies the lessons learned from across the board. To that end, we are transforming our acquisition system. We are empowering our new portfolio acquisition executives, or PAEs, and their teams with the authorities, resources, and talent they need to accelerate capability delivery. We have ne- we have delegated nearly every authority we are legally allowed down to the PAEs. We are realigning portfolios to match mission outcomes. Our end state is all DAF acquisitions aligned in the PAE structure to ensure consistent, simplified, and rapid decision-making across the Space Force and Air Force. Finally, our most decisive advantage remains our people, the Airmen and Guardians who make everything possible. This budget invests in them. That includes a five to seven percent pay raise for the military, larger bonus pools to incentivize high-performing s- s- civilians, increases to military end strength, and a three hundred percent increase in dormitory investments. In conclusion, this budget represents a disciplined strategy to meet our threats. While FY dot twenty-seven does represent a major increase in our budget, we are ready to execute that budget. Much of the new funding will accelerate mature programs with established contracts. Regardless of the final total, we will remain accountable and transparent to Congress and the American taxpayers. Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.

Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Jen Wolfbach, you're recognized.

Uh, good morning. Chairman Rogers, Ranking Member Smith, and distinguished members of the committee. I'm proud to represent six hundred sixty-five thousand total force airmen serving our nation. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today, and I conti- and to and for your continued support for airmen and their families. The United States Air Force exists to provide the nation with decisive options at both speed and scale. Every day, our airmen deliver that capability by controlling the air, holding targets at risk, moving forces and supplies around the globe, and underpinning the joint force with these combined efforts. As illustrated in recent operations such as operations Midnight Hammer, Absolute Resolve, and Epic Fury, they do it professionally and without pause. We operate in an environment where distance no longer guarantees sanctuary, networks are contested, and adversaries are fielding capabilities specifically designed to deny us the advantages we have relied upon before. The reality drives us to our focus, and that is readiness, modernization, and taking care of airmen and families. Readiness is the ability to generate combat power quickly, operate in contested environments, and sustain operations over time. Today, our airmen are meeting the mission by doing that while maintaining a significant strain. We are flying aircraft that in many cases are older than airmen who maintain them. We are operating at a high ops tempo across multiple theaters and doing so while preparing to be ready for any future conflict. Our fiscal year twenty twenty-seven budget requests prioritizes restoring depth in our force by increasing funding for flying hours, munitions, maintenance, and advanced training that reflects the reality of today and tomorrow's fight. Weapon system sustainment funding increased to over twenty-four billion dollars and twelve billion for flying hours. We are focused on readiness that continues to remain credible and can deliver effects. Modernization is not only about replacing old platforms with new ones, but evolving how we fight. Speed, survivability, and decision advantage will define future conflict. It requires a force that is more connected and adaptable. To this end, we are increasing our research and development funding twenty seven percent to over fifty seven billion. The fifty seven, or sorry the uh fiscal year twenty twenty seven budget requ- requests will accelerate our modernization programs. We are advancing the F-forty-seven and collaborative combat aircraft to increase combat mass and complicate adversary targeting. We are upgrading our current fighter fleet to ensure it remains viable, while also investing in long-range strike, advanced munitions, and resilient command and control. Additionally, our nuclear enterprise remains foundational. Investments now will sustain the modernization of the triad through the Sentinel, B-twenty-one, and upgrades to the B-fifty-two as well as the E-four-B. These capabilities ensure our deterrence remains credible and ready. Third is taking care of airmen and families. We ask a lot of our people. Frequent moves and operational stress take a toll. Our Air Force continues to invest in improving options for health care, child care, and spouse employment. Therefore, our budget request strengthens quality of life. We are executing the largest investment in our dormitories in over a decade, of two point seven billion dollars in FSRM and three hundred thirty million dollars in MilKon for a total of three billion. We are looking for solutions to meet the housing needs of our families, with a request of one point three billion while funding new construction projects to address child care capacity by adding more than seventeen hundred child care spaces. The Air Force exists to be the best possible fighting force for our nation. We are building a force that can operate under pressure and deliver effects anywhere in the world. That requires sustained investment, disciplined choices, and an unwavering focus on our people. With your support, we will ensure they have the tools, training, and the backing they need. Thank you, and I look forward to your questions.

Thank you, General. Uh, General Salzman, you're recognized.

Thank you, Chairman Rogers, Ranking Member Smith, distinguished members of the committee. And thank you for your support for the Space Force and our nation's guardians. As the past year has demonstrated, space is more vital than ever to our economic prosperity, our national security, and the effectiveness of the joint force. However, our adversaries are constantly working to take away our military and economic advantages in the space domain. To defend our nation's interest in space, the Space Force must do more than grow. We must evolve to meet the challenges of the new era. To that end, the FY twenty-seven's budget's landmark investment of seventy-one point one billion for the Space Force, represents a generational opportunity to position the force to meet the rapidly expanding threats and the demands of the nation. I know some of the budget Percentage increases being considered sound big. But let me put those numbers in context. There are at least twenty-five individual military installations inside the United States that each have more personnel than the entire Space Force. And the top ten of those installations are at least twice the size of our service. The Space Force's budget in comparison to other services will still be less than five percent of our nation's total military spending, an extraordinary value in return on investment for the nation. That investment is a critical down payment to meet the accelerating demands on the service. In twenty twenty five, the Space Force saw a drastic increase in mission requirements across space access global mission operations and space control. And this trend shows no signs of slowing. To position the service for this mission growth and inform our future needs, the Space Force has been working hard to define what we believe our future operating environment will look like over the next fifteen years. And then based on that, we designed our objective force structure, which will provide a vector for our services investments to meet the nation's expanding needs and defeat future threats. That analysis makes it clear, the space force we have today is not the space force we will need for the future. Increases in the service budget and in strength are a national security imperative. That is why the FY twenty-seven budget boosts our top line by a hundred and thirty percent and our top line strength by twenty-seven percent. The proposed budget paired with the increase in end strength will allow the Space Force to recruit and train the guardians we need, build vital space capabilities for the joint force in the nation, and provide the support and infrastructure that the mission growth demands. Today we are deliberately building a cadre of space-minded warfighters equipped with the skills required in an increasingly contested and evolving domain. We are preparing our guardian officers to seamlessly integrate with the joint force. We are bolstering the development of our enlisted force to ensure they become technical space warfighters. experts. And we are developing our civilian guardians so that they can best provide the unique expertise, ensure continuity of operations, and bring a depth of support across the mission sets. In order to execute all of our expanding missions, it is imperative that we responsibly and effectively convert this increased appropriation into combat capability and war fighting advantage. Unlike other services, the majority of our budget, nearly two thirds, is dedicated to developing and fielding new systems. instead of personnel or operations and maintenance. That is why the Space Force is so focused on taking advantage of this once-in-a-generation opportunity to enhance our acquisition processes, all with the goal of accelerating the fielding of vital s- combat space systems at the speed and scale required for each mission. To that end, newly empowered portfolio acquisition executives are positioned to make better, faster program trades, expediting our ability to deliver combat credible systems on operationally relevant timelines. We're simplifying our approach to requirements, bolstering our relationship with industry and allies, and ensuring our vital guardian workforce is expertly trained in the complex task of acquisitions. Unlike other services that are modernizing existing systems, the Space Force cannot modernize what it does not have. We are creating some of these innovative capabilities for new missions from the ground up, particularly in space control, where we are investing in all categories of counter space systems necessary to deter and defeat aggression in space. Additionally, we are aggressively pursuing more resilience-based architectures that can withstand attacks and continue to operate through extended conflict. This includes expanding our resilient missile warning and tracking initiative that provides a life-saving alert to troops worldwide and enhancing satellite communications to connect joint force units and commanders around the globe during battle. We are growing our space-based sensing and targeting archit- architecture to hold adversary forces at risk through space-based AMTI and GMTI anywhere in the world. But the added manpower and missions and capabilities require commensurate increases to the structures that support them. So the FY twenty-seven budget request also includes the required MilKon to ensure our guardians are fully supported. The Space Force has laid the organizational foundation, defined the compounding threat, and delivered the blueprint required to counter it. Now we must build those structures and systems to ensure domain superiority for years to come. Although our growth request looks large in a vacuum, the request is actually quite small relative to the overall budget. And I think this payoff is significant. With the continued advocacy for co- from Congress, our guardians stand ready to deter aggression, protect our space-enabled way of life, and have called upon fight and win. As I conclude my final presentation of this committee as the CSO, let me say thank you for enabling our successes and for the opportunity to highlight the exceptional work that our guardians are doing every day to secure our nation's interests in, from, and to space. I look forward to your questions.

Great. Thank all of you for those uh opening statements, I'll recognize myself. Uh, Mister Secretary, I wanna start with um the area that you touched on and uh and uh General Saltzman just spent the last two minutes of his comments on and that is acquisition. I was obviously pleased to see uh the significant increase in the Space Force budget. Um, as this service has matured it needs those increased uh uh resources to operate in space and support the joint uh force. Uh, but to make sure that every dollar is

Uh, thank you, Chairman. Uh, appreciate the question. Uh, yeah, so, as I stated in my opening comments, uh, the end state is we want the PAE structure we have, the

Mm.

uh portfolio acquisition executive structure we have to have essentially the same authorities and same responsibilities across the entire Air Force, similar authorities that that were given into the legislation to SDA and some others. Uh so we would like to actually take all the acquisitions whether it's SDA or any place else and put them all into a common PAE structure and we're looking for a little help to be able to do that uh cuz in the end

Do you have some language in mind that you wanna pender to us?

Yeah we can we can we can provide that we can provide that.

I would appreciate it.

Uh essentially what we wanna do is give the same level of flexibility to operate at speed and deliver capability rapidly, uh, to all the PAEs across both the Air Force and the Space Force. Um, so we're looking to do that. Uh, in addition, I think there are some additional authorities relative to, uh, multi-year procurement and those sorts of things that will make it easier for us to execute those those types of authorities and and I think we're looking at uh potential language to suggest on that too. But, uh, those are probably the two big things.

Great. Well, I would, I would offer to you that one of the things that I've heard uh from the private sector, is they like the new PAE system but they are encountering while there's good support at the top where the PAE is in the bowels of the worker bees, there's still a culture that's requirements focused and has them broken away from that so I would ask you to be mindful of that, as we mature that new structure. Um

If I could,

I'll

if I could, Mister Chairman,

Go ahead please.

if I could, Mister Chairman, on that, yeah, I was out at uh uh out talking to I think probably about two thirds of the of the Space Force's PAEs last week and that that was a concern of those two is how we manage that requirements process so we're doing a lot to structure the PAEs and give them and the authorities but in line with that we're also looking at how we do budgeting and requirements uh the budgeting requirements process within the department to streamline that as well to get at that point.

Yeah, fewer requirements the better. Um, next I want uh ask you about uh how the Air Force has uh structure and is ensuring that General White is able to execute on his direction to deliver critical capabilities such as SIN uh Sentinel with emergency

Yeah,

with urgency.

General, I I feel a bit fortunate in that both the Derpins we work closely with General White and and General Gutlein uh two of the Derpins are two of the best acquisition officers we have in both the Air Force and the Space Force so uh I'm pretty happy about that because they are in both cases uh responsible for some of the most important programs uh that the Air Force has, not just Sentinel, but F forty seven, uh twenty one, B twenty one. Uh, so it's critically important that we have a tight relationship with them, and we do. I made sure that Dale sits like a hundred paces from my office. Uh, I meet with him regularly to make sure that that we're tightly coupled. He's getting everything he needs and that, and he's delivering what the department needs to execute mission in the future. So I think it's working well.

Great. Junette Wilsbeck, I'm a big proponent of unmanned platforms and um I'm I'm interested, speaking of the F forty seven, I I like that we're moving to the sixth generation fighter. When are we gonna make the next leap to optionally manned or remotely manned uh tactical fighters?

Uh thanks Chairman, I'm a fan of unmanned as well. Uh in fact for Epic Fury um um perhaps maybe the most valuable player was unmanned and uh the they've uh this is the MQ nine and so we've made many many strikes, I don't wanna say how many cuz it's the numbers classified but uh no one's no no other platform's even close to the MQ nine which is a is a unmanned platform uh so we we get a lot of utility out of them and don't put our our folks in risk, at risk uh we're probably not quite at the uh at the state of autonomy where we can completely replace the entire force um or even the fighter force um with with unmanned, and as as we bring on uh, collaborative combat aircraft, um, and we integrate it with the F forty-seven and F twenty-two and F thirty-five, uh, to begin with. Um, there's still some level of human interaction to task that automated platform. Um, there's enough in artificial intelligence and machine learning inside of the collaborative combat aircraft, to once you give it a tasking, for example, go attack this series of targets, it can go do that with the tactics, procedures that are inserted in the software but you still need a human to make those sorts of decisions and we're not quite there yet with the

Yeah. Well and that's why I said remotely operated. It keeps the human in the loop but we don't have to have a person in the in the fighter.

Sure. Sure. And so we're we're we're realizing that already uh with um our already unmanned platform CCA will expand that to a degree because for example the uh the MQ nine doesn't really have I mean, it's remote and pilot,

Exactly right.

and the CCA will have autonomy, uh, and um, I've actually had a chance to operate the software in the simulator. Um, it's very intuitive, um, it's highly capable, and we are going to be able to put extreme pressure on any adversary that would go up against us with F forty-seven, F twenty-two, or F thirty-five in, in combination with the CCA, because not only will we have that automation and not put our folks at risk, um, it it also increases the mass that the adversary has to deal with.

Right. Well, I'll I I just I'll I'll leave it at this. We have to start thinking about that remotely operated fighter jet. Um, in part because we wanna not have to put a fighter pilot at risk. But the technology already exists. We're demonstrating it uh at present. Um, but the cost of these platforms is is reduced dramatically if you don't have to accommodate a human being. And I just want, you know, getting to the ranking members point about we gotta start thinking smart about spending money. I just want us to start thinking about it. And with that, I will yield to uh, Mister Carvajal for any questions he may have.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, and thank you to all the witnesses for being here today. General Saltzman, I understand you're retiring after thirty-four years of service in the military. I wanna thank you for your service for your distinguished service and for your leadership in strengthening our nation's space force. You have served admirably and I've really enjoyed working with you. Best wishes. Maybe now you could go back to my district and enjoy some of that, those good libations that we have, also known as Central Coast wine. So hope you can visit. Vandenberg space for space is the second busiest spaceport in the world. SpaceX and Firefly already have active pads. ULA will soon be will soon launch from there again and Blue Origin is in the early stages of building a slick. The boat dock on the south base is a critical piece to the launch infrastructure at Vandenberg, but it is too small to accommodate the larger launch vehicles that will soon be launching from the base. I know this will be an expensive and complex project. My understanding is that this is scheduled to be in fiscal year twenty thirty two but I think that is too far away and will stagnate launch growth out of the western range General Saltzman can you explain this project the projected time line and what we can do to move up that time line

Thank you Congressman and I do look forward to maybe getting back out to the central coast uh for the libations um when I was stationed out there just about twelve years ago we did seven launches Uh last year we did seventy-one launches, we're projecting a hundred and seventy-five launches is what our goal is ultimately for the capacity we have at Vandenberg. We can't do that without uh enhancements to that port facility, so it's it's high on our priority list to make sure that we can meet the launch tempo that's required out there. Um, FY thirty-two is where it's programmed in just because we think that may be what it takes to go through all the process and you know all those processes that have to be put in place to do the kind of work that's necessary out there. Uh, but it is a six hundred and fifty million dollar project. So this is not an inconsequential adjustment out there. Uh, we'll look forward to working with the entire Central Coast Commission, uh, out there as well as you and others to, we would love to accelerate that. Uh, but it's, it's, it's not an uncomplicated process and an important one.

Thank you. The most recent NDAA included section sixteen O seven, which requires a study on the feasibility and advisability of establishing TACS SRT as a program of record. Secretary Mink and S- General Salzman, can you give me an update on where that study is or any preliminary findings?

Thank you, Congressman. So TACS SRT is is I think one of the success stories of the last three years. Uh, we basically are leveraging commercial capabilities on orbit to to augment and complement the the tremendous ISR capabilities that uh come from the country. Um we've increased funding uh over time uh to as the demand has grown. Last year alone there were four hundred and forty-five requests. We provided over five hundred products, some of those at unclassified levels, most of those at unclassified levels to support operations. Um we've merged the the Marketplace that delivers those capabilities into our commercial space office where they have access to about a hundred and sixty eight million uh in order to adjust and and increase the commercial Marketplace for the combatant command demand signal. So I'm very comfortable that we're we're providing the services that the combatant commands need, uh if if there was any period where this was demonstrating success, we have demonstrated that success, and now it's probably time to figure out how we formalize uh TACS SRT as a mission area.

Thank you. The requirements for launch to high energy orbits like MEO and GEO will likely increase over the coming years. Historically, all launches to geo have been on heavy launch vehicles and since national security space launch phase three began all have been in lane two with the highest levels of mission assurance. There are some new capabilities coming online that will offer creative approaches to reach geo. General Saltzman, do all satellites going to geo need that highest level of mission assurance? That lane two launches require? And Could some direct to geo launches come through NSSL lane one, once there are providers onboarded that can reach that orbit, especially if they could offer lower cost per launch, per launch?

Well, some of the most critical uh satellites that we put on orbit go to geosynchronous orbit they have to last for a long time we overengineer them, so mission assurance in the launch process i- is is vital to making sure that we get the most out of those satellites we put into geosynchronous orbit. Uh, we are always open to improving the efficiency of putting uh capability on orbit, uh, but we don't wanna jeopardize mission assurance. Uh, that's gonna be first and foremost to maintain our effectiveness on orbit, but it is worth looking at what - what are the options to make sure that we can balance those competing requirements.

I- if I could just add, I know we're out of time, but I'd just add quickly uh, there are a number of companies, some of these smaller commercial companies, developing what we'd refer to as a third stage or an upper stage that actually allows uh the kind of the the traditional leo or or or medium class launch vehicles uh to put much larger payloads in the higher higher energy orbits geo or or mio um impulse is one of them there's another number of companies that are looking at doing that which could really give a lot of flexibility to our launch infrastructure thank you

ok thank you mister chairman a time i'll be back

gentleman from south carolina mister wilson is recognized

thank you very much chairman mike rogers and i wanna congratulate the chairman uh for his vision for space force uh and now hey uh he's ahead of the curve now autonomous air vehicles I I I he just won't stop and this is good uh with that in mind

uh place issue

uh as the son of a flying tiger of uh world war two who served in india and china I especially appreciate your professionalism in two thousand and three I was on a delegation led by chairman kurt weldon to beijing where we met The President Zhang come in in the presidential compound. When I was introduced as a member of Congress he yawned, but when uh it was added that I was the son of a flying tiger, he correctly threw his arms up in the air and announced that the American military has revered in China at that time, and I'm sure ultimately again. With the successful operations that have helped bring down the brutal dictatorships of dictator Assad in Syria and dictator Maduro in Venezuela, the extraordinary performance against the dictatorship in Te- Tehran through Operation Epic Fury, eliminating dictator Khomeini as the, in the first minute of a conflict, uh, to join the forty thousand people, Iranians, that he had murdered this year alone. As we face the, uh, growing situation of threats from the Chinese Communist Party, World Community, Putin, Iran, North Korea, and other adversaries, we must ensure that the American military remains dominant to uh to maintain peace through strength and to deter and particularly welcome a Putin who wants to recreate, resurrect a failed Soviet Union as he has annexed Belarus, he has invaded uh Ukraine of course, he maintains troops in Moldova and he's invaded uh Georgia and rigged the elections in Georgia uh and uh so sadly that the correct president is Salome Soros-Fevili. But over and over again uh we can provide with your efforts pastry strength with that in mind general uh Wilsbach as the air force recapitalizes its air fleet I support the air national guard the South Carolina air national guard was to the tip of the spear as part of the first military aircraft operating over Iran during operation epic fury demonstrating exceptional skill and professionalism while flying legacy F sixteen's it's reminded the guard is not just homeland defense but can achieve around the world. I am particularly appreciative that McIntyre joint air base of Eastover has uh this morning at twelve twenty-three been added by a redistricting in South Carolina to the district that I ha- will be fortunate to run in. With that in mind, the Air Force modernizes its fleet, what is the plan to recapitalize Air National Guard units like the South Carolina Air National Guard so they're not left flying aging air platforms while provi- providing active duty units uh the newer capabilities.

Yeah, thanks Congressman. Uh, I'm a I'm also a fan of the McIntyre unit, I've flown with them a number of times over the years. It's it's always been, I mean, I've been in the Air Force forty years and it's always been a really top-notch unit. Uh, so thank you for your your support.

Hey, I I forgot to say also pick up Shaw Air Force Base, I I I I the the map is uh just twelve hours old, so this is good. Thank you.

You bet, but

So I've gotta be nice to you all. Thank you.

Thank you. Uh, thank you. No, we, we uh, we do uh wish to capitalize, recapitalize, you know, all of the the aging infrastructure, not just in the Air National Guard, but it's true of the active duty as as well as the Air Force Reserve. And and our uh modernization plan for twenty-seven um incorporates um, the Air National Guard and uh and as a matter of fact, um even uh McIntyre is um is a uh candidate for a future F thirty five base. We haven't dec- the secretary hasn't decided yet on that, uh but they're certainly a candidate and uh we uh we look forward to that competition.

And thank you very much and indeed uh General Saltzman, best wishes on your retirement. I'm grateful that my uh nephew, Alan Heritage, has the privilege to work with all of you. With that in mind, it's encouraging too to see that uh there's uh effort to procure commercial imagery. What's the status of doing that for uh to uh promote your efforts?

Yes sir, we're we're investing in, as I mentioned, the commercial space office uh has a portfolio to uh l how to build a marketplace for all the commercial imagery providers, and we do that under attack SRT programs, uh surveillance, reconnaissance and and tracking. Uh and we've seen over five hundred products produced just over the last year for combat commands.

And and and indeed, uh I don't have more time, but I I want to point out we can learn uh real world conflict from our Israeli friends and the success uh of victory for the people in uh Ukraine. Thank you.

Gentlemen, Yilsbek, here and I recognize the gentleman from California, Mister Gierimendi.

Uh, thank you, Mister Chairman. Mister Secretary and General Wilsbeck and uh General Salzman, thank you for being here. Before I begin, I want to acknowledge the uh six airmen that we lost in the KC one thirty five crash over Iraq on March the twelfth. Also want to thank the airmen at Travis and across the Air Mobility Command and throughout the Air Force, who have carried out extraordinary share of the flight, of the fight in Iran. Well done. For years we've heard about the Air Force program's exquisite systems that bring us into the modern area, but from Europe to the Middle East we see timing against small distributive systems and reliable platforms have outsized impact, while exquisite systems make exquis- targets for our adversaries. Uh, General Wilsbeck, you spoke very passionately when you answered the Chairman's question about UAS's and their future. However, your budget doesn't follow that passion. Looks like you have one point one point four billion for CCAs. You have seven point four billion for the F thirty fives, most of whom will be delivered unable to have uh necessary equipment, like radars. And you have five billion for the new F forty seven. I grew up on a ranch and I remember at the uh cattle sales, all talk, no cattle, put your money where your mouth is. Apparently uh your passion for new platforms uh doesn't quite match. So uh let's get some detail here. What exactly, and not now but in writing, please deliver to us exactly how you're gonna spend the one point four billion for CCAs. Is it only CCAs or is it other kinds of uh uh UASs? Please deliver that and let's get down to the detail here. With regard to the F-thirty-fives, uh yeah, you're gonna have thirty-nine new ones. many of your old ones, in fact all of your old ones do not meet the requirements for readiness. What are you doing about that? Some of that has to do with the right to repair, some of it has to do with um necessary equipment standing by, all of which is deficient. So how are you going to deal with that? Please in writing to the committee get down to the details. Nice. Oversight, overview, it's interesting. But you operate in details as do your men and their equipment. We need the details. OK, particularly on the readiness side of it. Um. My colleague who has now left for a few moments said, you're gonna talk about the Sentinel, aren't you? Mister Salzman, I know you're gonna retire. We wish you the best. But you're going away. Why the Sentinel? We are now developing and uh actually following Russia in the development of hypersonic cruise missiles that are maneuverable for which at the moment there is no defense. That platform is being developed and provides yet another alternative to the sitting duck, Minuteman three and its follow-up Sentinel. Why? Deterrence? Please. Let's get real here. The Sentin- the Minuteman three will be able to be um, reconditioned and available for the next twenty years. Why are we spending in this budget money, five billion dollars, for the Sentinel? So, questions, please deliver in writing the answer to that question. The deterrence, the new platforms, the um cruise, the maneuverable hypersonic cruise missile, a new uh platform that can and probably will be nuclear. Mm-hmm. So why? I wanna have the detail here. I don't have time in this committee hearing to get into the detail, but I want you to deliver to this committee, and specifically to the readiness committee, um, the detail on why we're doing this. And why, and the amount of money that you're spending on the uh, upgrade and the maintenance of the Minuteman-three, and specifically how long you intend to do it. OK? So these are the details about which we have to go. Finally, In nineteen seconds. Travis Air Force Base is limited fifty percent for the lack of a taxi runway, a taxiway. Why not across this thing put in place a taxi runway that would increase the throughput at Travis Air Force Base by fifty percent.

Gentlemen, this time's expired.

Thank you, Mr. Ch-

Excellent point, though. Gentleman from Ohio is recognized. Mr. Turner.

Gentlemen, thank you for being here. Mr. Secretary, uh the operations of Epic Fury, Midnight Hammer, Southern Spirit continue to demonstrate the importance of the work that you do. Um, Mr. Secretary, um I everybody wouldn't be disappointed if I didn't highlight that, uh your career includes experience at NASIC and Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, uh but, uh even more than your experience, we are all very thankful, uh for your leadership. General Saltzman, I want to also uh join everyone in thanking you for your leadership and your almost four years of service to Space Force and uh congratulate you on your upcoming retirement I think this is an excellent time for us to get your wisdom um the Chairman is very proud of the um performance of Space Force and the data shows that Space Force has uh performed incredibly Space Force has increased launches from an average of about twenty-four per year prior to twenty eighteen to almost two hundred by the end of the year, demonstrated tactical responsiveness, successfully getting satellites from warehouses into orbit within the ninety-six hours of demonstrating that, shown its uh rapidly acquired new technology demonstrated by its successful fielding of counter satcom capabilities within forty-eight hours of identifying the requirements, Space Force has successfully integrated into the joint force globally standing up service components at all, Geographic Combat Commands continues to surpass recruiting and retention goals Space Force by your own accounting. Has um created nearly two billion in private funding over five years in direct support for military requirements. Looking back and now looking forward, what would, with your wisdom, where is Space Force on the right track, where do we have some work to do, and what should Congress do?

In three minutes. Uh, thank you, sir. I, no, I, I, I very much appreciate that and, and, and to the work of the chairman and the ranking and the entire committee, I, I think the Space Force is on a good path. I really do. Uh, one of the success stories that I point to routinely is I, I believe we've, uh, and I've gotten feedback from industry on this, that we have shifted the, the nature of the relationships we have with industry. It was very transactional. Uh, we would throw requirements kind of over the transom and, and hope that they would deliver something back, and we would go through testing and, and generally be happy with some of it and not happy with other parts of it. Uh, that that's just not gonna work going in the future. It's certainly not gonna work at the speed and the scale that we need these capabilities delivered. So we're we're investing heavily with industry to collaborate, uh, to get minimum viable products in the hands of our operators as quickly as possible. A small number of requirements necessary just to advance the programs, get them in the hands of the operators and then get their real-world practical feedback and continually upgrade. That's a different model. Uh, we have to work closely with with Congress in order to make sure that we understand what the requirements are, we get the right funding. We have stable funding over a number of years so we can continue to get that rapid enhancement. Uh, but that's gonna be a lot more work cuz it's not the traditional mind set that we have for our procurement and acquisition. Uh, we've really doubled down on the training and education of our forces. Uh, so many new authorities, uh, that we've we've gotten. We have to train our our contracting officers, we have to train our acquirers, we have to train the engineers so that they understand all the things that can be put in place. So we really doubled down on on putting the kinds of courses and education in place so that they can execute the authorities that we've given them. But I'm most proud of of converting what was basically a merchant marine into a navy if you'll let me use that analogy. I've used it before. We delivered services as a as a military space organization before the Space Force. Now we have to control the domain. And I think we've done a nice job of transitioning to a combat credible force. Uh, we're - we're providing resilient architectures. Our forces are trained in operations of their tactics against thinking adversaries. We've proven that most recently in Epic Fury. Five times as many deployments as we would normally see. We supported Epic Fury. Uh, and all of the forces, um, have been fully integrated. Uh, I hear from Brad Cooper and - and, uh, and the SouthKom team of how well the space capabilities are integrated, and how dependent they are on their success. So, Uh, I think we're on the right track, uh, in terms of training, educating, and building the kinds of combat ready forces on an operationally relevant timeline. And with continued support of this committee, I think we'll be in good shape for the years to come.

Hey Secretary, you reached for the mike on the unmanned uh question from the Chairman. I perhaps you wanted to advocate for the collaborative combat aircraft program funding that's in fiscal year twenty-seven budget.

Yeah, I was just gonna say when we we talk about an unmanned fighter aircraft, for all practical purposes that's what a CCA is um the combat capability it will have uh it is really a way to build uh a large number of of lower cost essentially fighter aircraft that will support and operate in collaboration with the the manned fleet and we see that model going forward for quite some time

we certainly see that in the program in uh in ohio that you've been working very closely with that have proven results

yeah it's been a a very successful acquisition so far Thank you.

Great.

Thank you. Chair, now recognized, Jen Lee from Pennsylvania, Miss Houlihan.

Thank you, Mister Chair, and thank you gentlemen for being here and congratulations on your retirement, Gen- General. It's nice to see you, uh, Mister Secretary, again as well. Uh, my questions start with you, sir. Um, a key element of the Air Force's future is, as we've been talking about today, the manned and unmanned systems that are working in concert with one another, and that there is an, uh, obvious, uh, lean towards autonomous weapon systems as well. Manned and unmanned systems will have even help alleviate some of the persistent pilot shortages that we've been experiences that experiencing that face the Air Force. For Mister Secretary, uh, as a preliminary question, would you agree that manned and unmanned systems are the future of the Air Force and air power?

Uh, before I answer that, every time somebody congratulates General Salzman on his retirement it hurts just a little bit.

It makes me jealous too, trust me.

I've I've actually uh I actually tried to get him to stay and I I am not as persuasive as I thought.

Yeah, it hurts me too.

Um. uh he's leaving uh a a abs absolutely Congresswoman uh unmanned aircraft uh again, I think they will play an increasingly important role uh as we as we as we build out uh into the future uh across the board.

I I agree, and I think one of the things that I'm sort of stymied by is that in the Air Force proposed budget that basic research is being cut by five percent, applied research is being cut by twenty-one percent, and advanced technology development is being cut by fourteen percent. In an environment frankly where I feel like money seems to be no object, what was the calculus behind those decisions to cut the budget in those areas?

So that's a that's a good question, Congresswoman, I I I think if you look at the totality of what we're spending on unmanned platforms, the the dollar investment's obviously gone way up, uh but I take your point is some of the specific basic research uh I'm gonna I'm gonna go back and and take a look at that. We are spending more money on on the autonomy part, but some of the uh platform R and D uh stuff uh I'm gonna go back and take a look at that Congresswoman.

I I I really appreciate that because I think that's sort of a leading indicator of where our values are you know where your money where your mouth is, and I think it's important that we do that I think it also has real implications to personnel um, I as you know we've we've talked about this was an acquisitions officer and and didn't see uh a leadership opportunity in my future couldn't look up and see that, and it definitely would seem that way the signal would be to people like me now that they're because of reduction in budgets in those kinds of areas that maybe they're not valued as STEM professionals as people with those those backgrounds um so I really appreciate you looking into that um my second question is for General Salzman um you re- represent the very smallest and newest branch of the military your service was spun out of the Air Force uh because the space domain was growing in importance and will continue to grow First of all, I would assume the answer to this is yes, General, but do you agree that establishing the space space force was a good idea in retrospect?

A wildly successful idea.

I concur. Uh, General Saltzman has the space force taken advantage of being a new service in that you have the opportunity to develop a new culture in and separate uh uh from the Air Force and approaching space operations as you you've mentioned during this hearing, in a very different set of ways.

Yes, ma'am. I I think we've been successful not only in pushing the envelope into what we can do, but growing to take on those new missions.

And so I guess where I'm heading with this question, General Wiltsbach, is in the Air Force when you would have to rank order kind of where your priorities are in terms of what you're putting your efforts to where would cyber fall in that one through five or below five?

I don't know if I could uh rank it one through five. Because it's integral to everything that we do.

Agree.

It's it's integral that it it's integral to everything that we do.

I agree. I think one of the things is is that our services cyber is in and of itself a domain too.

Correct.

And I think that we need to be thinking about it in the same way that we thought about the space force as potentially its own force so that we might be able to recognize its im- incredible importance with what's left of my time uh my last question is also for General Saltzman. We've been talking a lot about uh acquisitions and your relationship with industry. Space is a lot more congested and contested than ever before. Um I'm worried that the department might be under utilizing commercial space, domain awareness tools uh that are available in the commercial sector despite growing sophistication from industry in that area. What steps are you making sure and taking to make sure that we evaluate and integrate what is available on the open economy uh in your uh needs requirements?

We we have a what we call the JCO, the joint commercial office, that pulls in that uh commercial data. We've established the uh universal data library as a pla- as a parking spot for all of that data. We continually evaluate it. We've got twenty-two different nations that contribute to that as well. So uh we have the marketplaces to evaluate that data from all the commercial providers and then we rapidly pull it in and and use it for operational purposes.

Thank you. I look forward to continued uh investigation into the power of industry. I yield and appreciate the indulgence.

Okay. Yes, the, and I, I do wanna, on the point that you make, uh, you made reference earlier to epic fury. What happened with absolute resolve, the Operation Epic Resolve goes to your point. Space and cyber capabilities were demonstrated with as part of the joint force as never before, in an eye-waterly effective manner. So these are very important additions to our joint effort. With that, I recognize the gentleman from Virginia, Mister Whitman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, uh, Secretary Mink. General Wilsbach, General Saltzman, thanks so much for joining. General Saltzman, thanks so much for your incredible service to our nation for thirty-five years, and thank you to you and your family for your service and sacrifice. Uh, the nation will be forever grateful for that. General Saltzman, I wanna start with you. Thank you for coming out to the mid-Atlantic regional spaceport in March with Representative Kiggins and myself. And I I hope you was it was helpful for you to see that vertical lift to space, capability that's there at the Mid-Atlantic Regional Spaceport. And this delivers on a number of very key missions and makes sure we have that additional access to space which is now uh more important than ever. Uh historically you know Congress has played a very pivotal role in putting resources towards these FAA approved facilities in these states to make sure we have that that vertical launch state pace spaceport capability. And we know that's even more important as space traffic or launch traffic gets bigger and bigger and more congested at Canaveral and at Bannenberg. Um, these new capabilities I think are gonna be key. Mister Chairman, I'd like to enter into the record an article from Politico dated May nineteenth, twenty twenty six, and this article details a report from the Commercial Space Foundation that says, US launch infrastructure won't be able to support growing launch demand without considerable investment.

Without objection, so ordered.

Also appreciate your response. uh, Representative Kiggins and I wrote you a letter about the importance of this capability in these particular areas. And in your response where you said, " A critical component of our national launch capability and a key contributor to meeting these growing security demands, are places like the spaceport in Virginia and Alaska." Uh, now that you've seen these launch capabilities firsthand and knowing, as I've spoke about the congestion at the Cape and at Vandenberg, and knowing more and more heavy launches are gonna take place there, which even creates a bigger impact on medium and small launch capabilities. Uh, can you share your thinking about these state spaceport capabilities in, in vertical launch to orbit capabilities and how they are gonna be necessary in the future? And what would be the plan for us to make sure we have that capability expanding in those two spaceports?

Well, thank you, sir, and I appreciate the opportunity to come out and, and visit the site with you and, um, I agree. It's a, it's a gem out there, uh, and there's some, there's some real capability. I think it's a two-phase approach in my mind,

Mm.

and I'll defer to secretary Mink too, I know he's got some ideas on the launch infrastructure, but uh first step is make sure that we're officially using those those space ports that we do have.

Mm-hmm.

I think there is some reorganization, some redesign of small and medium lift capabilities in our in our larger space ports that might be able to be offset uh and and gain the efficiencies you get from places like Wallops Island.

Mm-hmm.

Uh so I that's step one is make sure we're using as efficiently Yeah. And then second is growing the infrastructure, uh, Mm-hmm. to support the demand signal that we are seeing from industry uh and our national security launches, uh, we're go- we're gonna have to increase the capacity. Yeah. Uh, and then maybe the, connected to that is the geographic resiliency that you might need to have separate launch locations and not be so tied to just the two specific launch ports that we have so we're - we're looking heavily and we're anal- analyzing, uh, al- alternatives uh to support other options. Sure.

General Salzman and Secretary Mink, I'd like to get your specific ideas about what would these investments look like? What should we focus on in how we are directing money to these state space ports in order to augment what's going on at the Cape and at Vandenberg?

One will be as we redesign and we say we're gonna move capability from one uh space port to another, that that's not inexpensive. Uh, and then to make sure that it has things like the port facilities, it has the the consumable uh infrastructure that that's required, storage facilities, uh payload integration facilities, so there are MilKon efforts, there's uh upgrades, and then we're gonna have to think about the regulatory, how how fast can we launch, what are the launch licensing uh procedures, environmental impact studies that we have to do, all of those are gonna require oversight to make sure we get it right and do it as efficiently as possible.

Very good.

Secretary Mink.

Yeah yeah, second everything uh General Saltzman said, I guess what I'd add is as well as you know we've just finished up a a study and uh that's working its way through the process to come down uh to the hill at a at a high level what it says is we we probably need another site that's capable of heavy and and super heavy launch capability

mmm

uh both from a resiliency perspective and just even at at the cape limitations and uh how much space we got um it it it it still shocks me a little bit that just launch base's launch infrastructure seems to be the limitation right now uh on on the

Yeah.

nation's ability to grow our commercial our or grow our at least for the next uh foreseeable future grow our our commercial launch infrastructure uh which sports again both commercial and national so it it looks like we we we need to take full advantage of the efficiencies that at the current space sports but we probably need another location that's capable of a heavy and super heavy launch kit

Jim Lentiles. Jim Lentiles expired uh cheer and I recognize Jim from Washington, Mr. Clinton.

Thank you, Chairman Rogers and Ranking Member Smith, and thank you to all of our witnesses. I'm over here today. I want to focus my questions on strategic mobility, airborne battle management, and space force structure. So I have a question for each of you. General Wilsbach, the Air Force now expects portions of the strategic air fleet, airlift fleet to remain operational for decades longer than originally planned while the next generation airlift remains years away. The Air Force also waited decades to recapitalize KC one thirty five fleet before beginning the KC forty six program. What exactly is the department doing now to ensure the next generation airlift does not face similar recapitalization or schedule pressures, as a strategic airlift continues to age?

Well, thank you, Congresswoman. Uh, yes, we have a uh in the budget this year is a um study that's that's uh designed to look exactly at what you're about the next generation airlift and the the idea behind this study is to uh determine what the next aircraft will look like what it will be and the requirements thereof and it's to replace the c five and the c seventeen we we have um a lot of life left on both those platforms and so we're we're not in a big crisis right now we we don't think we need to replace the c five until about twenty forty and and the the seventh the seventeen is even beyond that. Um, so I think we're in we're in O K shape and that the the budget is designed to to look at this for the next year.

Thank you. And staying on operational capability, Secretary Mink, the department previously sought to terminate the E seven, but recently announced plans to move forward with five additional aircraft. We did not see funding for those aircraft in the fiscal year twenty seven budget request though we understand the department plans to submit a budget amendment to fully fund the program in twenty seven and beyond. What operational realities actually cause a department to reverse course, and what's the status of that funding request?

Uh, uh, maybe answer the second part. First, uh, the status of the request is, is we're putting through a budget amendment, uh, in the, I think it's in the ballpark of around one point five billion dollars that's working its way through the system right now, uh, to come to the Hill. That'll fund twenty-seven, and then when we build the twenty-eight budget, uh, we will work it into the, the long-term, the long-term plan. Uh, with respect to what's changed, uh, uh, the, what's changed is is when the decision was made to to cancel the E seven uh we were working at a top line of the department of about eight eight ninety um we have uh we hope uh much more budget flexibility now and that was one of the things that we put back on the back on the the priority list to to put into the budget uh it is really just simply at the eight ninety mark we were cutting things that we didn't want to cut Um, now we have enough flexibility to put some of that back in, and that was one of the airplanes that went on it. Uh, just at a very high level, we believe the space-based and the air-based AMTI mission working together is where we need to be and and we're looking for support from the Hill so, appreciate that.

Do you feel confident that the department can now execute airborne battle management without the E-seven?

I I I think we had a plan to do that. uh without the E seven uh using space base uh cause again if you look at the larger air battle management it is a fusion of sensors that are really across airspace and the ground domains uh the E seven helps make that problem easier with that I'll maybe turn it over to General Wilsbach for a couple comments.

I I agree with the uh sec secretary uh we can do air battle management from a number of different platforms but the E seven allows us uh what we believe is the capability to be flexible and get the air battle manager in the right space at the right time to manage that battle.

Thank you. Alright, now I'm going to go to General Saltzman and turning to Space Force, which by the way has the best logo of all the services, I gotta point that out, very modern. I'm General Saltzman, the Space Force is receiving major budget and man power growth while also stating the force remains too small for expanding mission set. Given recent information provided to Congress showing

Well we are we are planning to grow as quickly as possible. Um something like two thousand new civilian hires over the next year, for example. We're doing about three hundred, I'm looking at my notes here, three hundred personnel actions per month to bring on that civilian workforce, which is a big part of our acquisition cadre. Um, twenty eight hundred new active duty guardians is a part of the request. Uh, the missions that are coming on are gonna require us to put together ten new program offices to make sure we can do the kinds of acquisition that's necessary on an o- on an operationally relevant time line. It'll probably result in about forty new squadrons, just with the new missions we have coming down the pipe. So this is about, um, understanding what the mission requirements are, unders- doing all the man powering tasks,

Then it leaves time to expire.

and then bringing in the actual

Here now recognizes a gentleman from Georgia, Mr. Scott.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, gentlemen, thanks for being here today, uh, Mr. Secretary, um, I represent Robins Air Force Base, one of the three depots, um, that are gems to our country, just i- is the Air Force still committed to the three depot strategy?

Uh, absolutely, Congressman.

Um, I'm gonna get a little further into this, but one of my concerns is as we divest older equipment uh that we make sure that we're not creating a a capability gap when we get rid of those older systems, making sure that the new systems are developed and in production before we get rid of them. So as we talk about the E elevens, I know there's been some postponement of the A tens. Interested any comments on their on the development of the A tens and the MQ nines? Um What is the plan to replace the assets with equal or greater capability without generating a gap?

Uh, every one of those platforms are are the strategy is a little bit different, but we do have we do have strategies for for all of them. Uh, on the MQ-nine uh side of the house, we we do we are not divesting uh the MQ-nine. Uh, we have had some losses in that aircraft and we are working to fill those losses. Uh, but in parallel we are looking at

What do you want?

at what is the follow-on to the MQ-nine aircraft. And it's probably gonna be not one platform, it'll probably be multiple platforms. Uh, and we've actually been doing a lot of the R and D work uh to be positioned to do that, and we're now in the process of doing that. Uh, on the A ten side of the house, um, we've essentially slowed down and and delayed the retirement of that platform, and in many cases uh what's that allowed us to do is is backfill those units with more capable survivable combat aircraft. uh which is part of the budget submission allowed us to to deliver those platforms earlier and replace the A tens uh on the eleven side of the house uh the the the uh again the current challenge with that aircraft is survivability where we need it um we are pushing hard across the fleet to go to more secure and survivable uh beyond linesights dot com in all of our platforms and we are we are rapidly fielding that capability across the entire uh, wide body and fighter aircraft.

They they are more survivable the the new platforms are, but when it comes to combat search and rescue, the A tens have have have done an extremely good job. I'm concerned that as we move to faster systems, uh, loiter time and other things that we need for combat search and rescue, uh, we'll be sacrificed for that. Uh, General Wilsbach, um, And l- and let me say this with regard to the A-tens and a lot of our weapons systems. When we're not gonna use them anymore, I do not understand why we don't sell them to our allies. And could - could you speak to that, Secretary, like why - if - if we're gonna divest ourselves of a system like the A-ten, why don't we put it in the boneyard? Why don't we sell it to a NATO partner, uh, who - who - who could use the system, and then it would be there when we needed it.

If I if I could maybe I'll I'll touch on that and then I'll turn it over to General Wilsbach to act how we're gonna act to answer how we're gonna conduct the the the the rescue support mission sets. Uh y- yeah so uh we do sell a lot of platforms uh to our international partners, a very large number of platforms to our international partners um and when they look at what they want to buy from a cost-effective survival combat effectiveness perspective uh they are focused on you know either the F thirty fives or m q nine type aircraft um just due to the cost and the age uh and the eight tenths are quite old aircraft and becoming more and more challenging to maintain uh it it it just doesn't look cost effective from from from that perspective but uh i'll look

i'd rather give them to them than put them in the bone yard to be honest with you

so giving a platform and the maintenance and everything else that's required to maintain that platform it would be very expensive

Uh, General.

No, the the secretary is exactly right. I mean, even if you gave the A tens to a country, um, they would still have to pay to sustain them and upgrade them and keep them viable.

OK. In in thirty seconds, can you speak to Combat Search and Rescue if we're giving up the A ten?

Uh, I do, I mean, the reason why the A ten, uh, is really good at that is because it's a core mission of that platform, and as we transitioned, uh, with with putting the A ten in the in the retirement phase, there'll be other platforms that will, it will become their core mission. And so F thirty-fives, F fifteens, um, other other platforms have the capability to do that.

So, so, General, the A ten pilots are specifically trained for combat search and rescue.

So

Are we gonna specifically train F thirty-five and other pilots

Right. Yes.

for combat search and rescue because there have been questions about that.

Absolutely. Yeah, we ha- we'll have to. It's our mission.

OK. Thank you.

Excellent. Great. Chair, and I recognize the gentleman from California, Mister Cisneros.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, and thank you all for being here today. Um, I'll get right into it. Mister Secretary, I recently met with the California National Guard State Adjutant General and discussed the urgent need for for fighter recapitalization. Uh, several Air National Guard units, including a unit in California, are operating on aging F-fifteen fleet well beyond the projected service lives with critical shortfalls in spare parts and sustainment resources. Um, what's the department's plan for recapitaliz- recapitalizing these units and what is the expected timeline for delivering replacement aircraft to a hundred and forty fourth in California

So so I I I think maybe what you're poking at is the delivery pace of the F-fifteen EX, which is the primary replacement platform. Uh, we are focused on that. We are actually ramping up production to support uh replacement uh of the older F-fifteens with the the newer very very capable F fifteen EX platform uh we've been working very closely with uh the contract of Boeing, matter of fact they spent a day out at St. Louis just going through the detailed planning of how we're gonna increase production of that platform and maintain schedule to to basically replenish those aircraft so I I think we're making good progress and and it is a focus and we are pushing hard to make sure that that we get those planes reply replenished.

Well our our unit in California is still flying F fifteen C's and D's and a lot of them are being um, you know, strip for for spare parts to keep other aircraft running. Um, I I hope we can get this going, but it's my understanding. We're making about one F-fifteen EX a day. Um, if that's the case, we're gonna have to speed that up quickly because we need these aircraft and other units need them as well.

So so we're not we're we're not making one a day. If we were making one a day, I'd be extremely happy, happy congressman.

Oh, I'm sorry, one a month, one a month.

So we yeah, I know I know I know what you meant. Uh, yeah, so we think we're gonna get to two a month. uh pretty quickly and and the contractor is supposed to come back with us in the

ok

next few weeks on a plan to get to three a month and then four in a month uh to both support the us and fms sales that's a platform that that many of our international partners wanna buy as well.

alright thank you for that um general um you you're chief master sergeant of the uh of the space force um i'm not even gonna try and pronounce his name bene well like benevegna Uh, it said earlier this year that, uh, the Space Force is gonna need to double in size. Now, I know you said in your opening statement that you're increasing by twenty-seven percent but that's well short of doubling in size so as you kinda see it, uh, as you're getting ready to retire and thank you for your your service, uh, for your years of service both in the Air Force and the Space Force, um what is the plan going forward to kinda get to that point if we do need to double in size, how long is it gonna take us to get to that point?

Yes sir, the twenty seven percent increase is just in one year.

Yeah.

We're going from ten thousand, we're adding about twenty eight hundred to that, so uh over four years we think we're gonna get close by the end of the decade, uh to twenty thousand active duty service members. So that's the plan. We just can't bring them all on at once because our training pipeline has to be able to support that. And quite frankly the squadrons that we need to stand up aren't ready yet cuz the systems are in orbit. So it's about synchronizing it all over the next four or five years.

All right, well I I think you'll have support from this committee if there's anything we can do to help speed up that process to get you there sooner, uh because it definitely is needed. Thank you. Um, General Wilsbach, uh you made previous comments that the Air Force's prime objective is to fix and fly aircraft, which I agree with, uh yet the Air Force carries responsibility for the land-based leg of our nuclear triad as well, the ICBM. Uh the department notified Congress that the next general uh gen- next generation ICBM is woefully over budget and behind schedule. So while the Air Force is struggling with pilot shortfalls in a fleet of aircraft that is aging rapidly, uh, and it's even been suggested that maybe the Army should take over, that I've read in an article recently, that the Army should take over the ICBM program. Um, what do you think needs to happen, uh, in order to kinda help support the ICBMs? Is this something we should turn over to the Army? Is this something that the Air Force Air Force can focus on while it's also focusing on, uh, the aircraft portion of its mission as well?

Uh, thanks, Congressman. I don't think we should turn it over to the Army. I think the Air Force is, uh, capable and has, has shown that we've been operating the Minuteman for decades, and we can continue to transition to the Sentinel. Uh, the twenty-seven budget has about four point five billion, uh, to continue to work the Sentinel, uh, program. Uh, I know we were, we had a non-microde breach, uh, earlier. Uh, we're re- restructuring that program and, uh, it's on a better track now.

Alright, well thank you for that. I I think this is something that it it definitely as part of the triad needs to be focused on, and we're gonna have to rethink the triad going into the future. But thank you very much all for your uh for your answers today, and I yield back.

I would just say, if I can add, that nuclear deterrence both from the air side of the house and the ICBM side of the house, as well as the nuclear command and control, that's uh that's provided by the Space Force in many respects is is is our number one priority. Nuclear deterrence is the mission. We need to make sure we get it right, and and we're gonna make sure we get it right.

Chair, recognized gentleman from Tennessee, Doctor Dejarlie.

Thank you, Chairman. Uh, Secretary Mink, over here. I do wanna congratulate General Saltzman on his retirement. And uh, General Saltzman, uh, thank you for your leadership and service. Uh, it's gonna be sorely missed. Um, I was pleased to see the significant increase in the Space Force budget, however I was disappointed despite the overall increase, the commercial service budget request was half of last year's request. Uh this line funds the commercial augmentation space reserve, and the tactical surveillance reconnaissance and tracking pilot program and several other lines of effort that have been of interest to this committee. Uh can you walk me through the services plan to increase the use of commercial services as proposed by your commercial space strategy, if it's not reflected in this budget line?

It's alright. I think uh we've prove we've demonstrated the capabilities of using commercial uh services uh in support of our missions, and uh now it's just about figuring out what those funding sources are. In fact, a lot of the combatant commands are paying the bill on uh on commercial imagery as well as uh commercial satellite communications. And so I think if you look at the overall budget, you'd still see an increase in commercial services, but um it's something that we're looking forward uh t- we're we're evaluating whether this should be a program of record and whether that'll expand. But right now our commercial space uh office is handling that marketplace, we think, sufficiently.

OK, thank you. And Secretary Mink, this really, this one is for you. Um, while General White is responsible for the Air Force's highest profile nuclear modernization program, Sentinel and V- twenty-one, the Air Force remains responsible for many others, such as the replacement cruise missile known as LRSO, as well as a myriad of NC-three programs. Can you assure us that the Air Force will continue to prioritize programs and that we won't take our eye off the ball as other parts of the Air Force nuclear portfolio are reassigned to General White.

Uh, so, so again, General White, uh, absolutely we will keep our eye on on the ball on that. Uh, LRSO is actually one of those programs, uh, didn't mention it, but it is going very well. Uh, program is properly structured in the beginning and it is delivering, uh, actually at a very good cost point, not just from a schedule perspective but a cost perspective. Uh, so we're very happy with that. Um, and and across the board, you know, we will continue to support, even though uh uh, you know, Dale's got really special authority straight from the DEPSEC DEF on acquisition. Those programs are still sitting in the Air Force and and and we will work closely with him, make sure we deliver all of them.

OK, well, staying on that topic of LRSO, as you may know, last year there was the miscommunication about the amount of funding necessary, which ultimately led to a significant cuts to the program. This year the budget request includes five hundred sixty-five million for research in addition to three hundred thirty million procurement for it. I just wanted to confirm with you that this is a level of resourcing the Air Force needs to keep the program on track and there is no margin for additional delay. Is that correct?

Uh, that that is correct, and and and I'm not sure how we ended up cross paths on that communication. Uh, but yeah, that that that did impact the program, those lack of resources uh last year. Uh, so yes, those resources are absolutely required to keep the program

Yeah, well, well thank you, and and this is the best performing nuclear modernization program in the Air Force. We need to ensure that progress is not put in jeopardy by confusion about how the Air Force needs to keep executing it. So, uh, appreciate that. Uh, General Wilczak. or Wilsbach. Uh, there have been a number of drone incursions at military bases across the country, and there is a wide concern for the threat of drones being used in attack on the homeland. What role does the Air National Guard play in detecting, tracking, and responding to unmanned aerial system threats within the homeland? And what additional capabilities or authorities are required to enhance this mission at the state level?

I think we're good on the authorities, uh, but the Air National Guard, along with, you know, frankly, all other uh department uh bases have the same same responsibility which is to defend their base and uh the the the problems that we have right now are the capabilities that we have to detect the environment and then to do something about it um many of the bases have non-kinetic capabilities that don't actually work against a lot of the drones and so we've been rapidly uh you know in the last few months been rapidly fielding new capabilities uh to take care of this, we still need to continue to do that.

Anything Congress can do to help at this point?

Um the twenty-seven budget addresses this.

Yes sir, thank you. Chairman, I yield back.

Chairman yields back. Chair now recognized, gentleman from Illinois, Mister Sorenson.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, uh many thanks to our witnesses today for your leadership, to innovate and scale up our Air Force capabilities, as well as Space Force, protecting our assets above and keeping us safe here at home. And Secretary Menk, I'd be remiss if I didn't also congratulate the man to your left, General Staltzman, on your retirement. Um, I am so incredibly proud to represent the Patriots working at the hundred and eighty-second airlift wing in Peoria, Illinois. I wish we had uh C one thirty J models at the airfield today, uh but central Illinois is thankful for all of your efforts to get us these new C one thirty Js at the hundred and eighty-second. As we have seen with Operation Epic Fury, Contingency response groups are critical to quickly opening airfields and ensuring that our airmen can smoothly enable theater logistics. Whether it's a dirt field in the middle of nowhere, an abandoned runway somewhere, or at the site of a recent uh weather disaster, a contingency response group can make sure that our service members can land safely and begin carrying out operations right away. I'm so thrilled that the Air Force decided to stand up a contingency response group within the hundred and eighty second in Peoria. Our Guard members in the uh in Peoria are the best of the best. Uh, so there's no one better to kick off operations. I could talk about them all day, but I'm concerned with how this CRG conversion is going. We're one year into a three year conversion and there's no funding for equipment or manning. So uh to the secretary, what are we doing to ensure that the hundred and eighty second, as well as the five Air National Guard units converting to CRG's can complete the conversion and become mission ready?

Uh, if it's all right, if it's all right, Congressman, I think I'll I'll I'll hand that off to the the the the chief.

Thank you.

For the specifics of the exact funding, let me come back to you and I'll I'll give you a written report of how we intend to do that, cuz I don't know the exact specifics for that wing.

All right, I appreciate that. It's something that we should uh get figured out. It's been uh years in the making.

Concur.

Um, in terms of personnel, the hundred and eighty-second was sourced with a hundred and twenty-five As you know, a hundred and seventy-five are needed to complete a CRG unit. Um, what more can we do together to ensure that we've got those fifty additional personnel um on the ground?

Ye- so we'll make sure that - that the appropriate uh personnel are - are - are there as we - as we - we start to transition. Uh, the uh - and if - and if there's a shortfall, we'll - we'll come back to you and - and work with you on that as well.

General?

And the um the twenty-seven budget also allows for an end strength increase uh for the Air Force, and so w- w- when when we say well make sure you have the people, it also needs to be funded and we are funded in the twenty-seven budget request for that, so it'll be helpful to be able to plus that up.

Great, I appreciate that. Um, to General Staltzman and to Mister Menke, uh, earlier you mentioned the need for another launch site for Space Force. How important are horizontal launch points and We expedite their development.

I'm sorry, I mean you say horizontal launch points you don't you don't mean uh uh air-based launch systems or are you talking about horizontal versus vertical integration, or

Forgive me for merging a little bit of of the SST committee that I've been working on in the past but um to develop a horizontal launch point f to get the things that we build into space right so you know we've got a space you know that is outside the the busy ohare and midway airspace but it is the epicenter of where we build all of the critical industrial and and advanced manufacturing um how do we get it up where we need it is there a way that we could utilize horizontal launches as opposed to vertical launches and how can we work together on it

so we probably have a long discussion on this those have been looked at back and forth um both the commercial industry and the government is from a cost effectiveness perspective it's they've they've gone to vertical launch, a matter of fact even vertical landing there are many contractors not just SpaceX but Blue and others are doing the vertical landing that just

Mm.

approved just appeared to at least now the state of the technology as the most uh efficient way to launch uh saying that is there there like I said there is an additional uh probably launch facility required to support uh the the large rockets which is harder to find than the the

Right.

those are sports with smaller rockets. And that's something that we're gonna have to be working with Congress and the States to to figure out going forward. Uh, Salty?

I think airborne launch is the, as close as we've come I've seen to demonstrating some sort of hor- horizontal launch capability and it does pr- provide some agile uh flexibility uh for launches. Uh, but payloads are be are reduced at this point and so we just haven't seen it be able to produce the kinds of efficiencies that both vertical launch and vertical reusable launch has achieved.

Well, just because of where we are, I hope that the Quad Cities could be part of that, uh, discussion. Thank you so much and I yield back.

Gentleman's time has expired. The chair now recognize the gentleman from Nebraska, General Bacon.

Thank you. Thanks to all three of you for being here. Uh, General Saltzman, congratulations. I I c- retired in twenty fourteen. Now I'm starting to think about a third career, so you you got you got a lot of runway ahead of you. And I appreciate all three of you. Uh, my first question is to the secretary. Wanted to verify some statements that were made uh in the Senate uh in the recent weeks. Uh first, and it is by the way these are very positive developments in my mind, uh that you said that the Air Force will be building towards twenty-two EA thirty-sevens. I- is that correct?

The EA thirty-seven B's you're referring to?

Yes.

Y- yes, we've expanded uh within this budget submission across the FIDAP, we've expanded the the number of uh thirty-seven B's, correct?

This is an incredible milestone. I've been working this for a long time. I flew uh in the earlier versions for eleven years. But we're gonna finally produce a capability that our war fighters say they need. And, you know, electronic warfare saves lives, makes it easier to penetrate air defenses. And so I just uh well I applaud the decision. I mean, when I came here it was six and we had a hard time getting those numbers up. So, it's been a ten year project uh from our office, so I am thrilled. Thank you. Also wanted to verify that the looking glass mission uh is being moved back to the Air Force. Let me just, for those who aren't familiar with the Looking-glass mission, it's a nuclear command and control uh platform, airborne platform that provides survivability if the White House is hit, the Pentagon's hit, or STRATCOM, and it ensures that we can launch our ICBMs even if we get decapitated on the ground. I think it's a very important capability, especially as Russia and China rebuilds. But I just wanted to verify that this is coming back to the Air Force.

Uh uh yes Congressman, it is and we are in the process of working with our partners at Strat and other places to refine the requirements uh uh i- really to get to something that's affordable and we can deliver fairly quickly. Um but yes, an important mission.

Well this is another huge milestone from my vantage point I've been working on this too for a decade in in Congress. No one, we have these airplanes on a fifteen minute alert. We have weapons that can hit us in fifteen minutes. So I felt like we needed to increase our capability here, our readiness to more quickly respond, and I think we're going the right direction. Russia and China must know that no matter what they do, we have our ability to launch four hundred ICBMs and submarine missiles and and really to use our deterrence capabilities. Uh, J- General Wolfsbach, of the ten thousand two hundred sorties and over thirteen thousand five hundred strikes in Epic Fury, but how much of this was Air Force? And you talked a little bit about the Air Force accomplishments.

Uh, uh the the probably the real answer to that is classified, so maybe we can get together in a in a closed session, but uh we we have uh we have flown a lot of sorties, and we've dropped a lot of munitions, and I'm very proud of the effort that the airmen have done. And this this uh conflict has been somewhat different than others, in that almost everybody involved were under fire the whole time, uh and they had to still continue to generate uh sorties, which they did. heroically.

We actually had to train or we had to fight like we've been training for a long time, which underfired our airfields. That's uh, remember doing that myself uh in training, how did the F- thirty-five perform?

It performed really well and there's a lot of uh news on uh low aircraft availability rates but the ones that we sent forward uh were running near standards as far as uh availability rate went um it was also extremely effective uh, from the standpoint of hitting its target and surviving in some very high threat environments.

Last question. Uh, I'd like to ask about the B-twenty-one. Recently we've decided we're going from a hundred to maybe a hundred and forty-five. Just how important is the B-twenty-one capability in your view for the future?

Yeah, so as you know, as you stated, uh, the program of record is a hundred aircraft. Uh, there's been, uh, multiple opinions that, uh, we need more. I, I think we're probably gonna need more. We're, we're gonna have to do a study and certainly work with with uh STRATCOM and Air Force Global Strike to to figure out what that number is. One one of the things though that's important if we do decide to to build more is Northrop's ability to build them at scale and pace.

OK. General Saltzman, uh the budget requests uh huge increases in manpower for the Space Force which is good, but given the current training pipelines and base level infrastructure, how easily are you gonna be able to assimilate uh the added ma- manpower and the the added capabilities?

Uh, we've got good planning for FY twenty-seven. Our Air Force partners have been great, uh, in terms of, uh, being able to take that on at both BMT and officer sessions. So I think we're good for FY twenty-seven. We will have to invest, uh, additional resources as we get closer to the twenty-thirty time frame. We'll start to exceed the capacity and we'll have to expand it.

With that, a yield.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here today. General, we will miss you very much, and thank you for your faithful service to our country over all these years. Uh, I wanted to start with the budget, cuz that's what you're here to make the case for. A three hundred and thirty-eight point eight billion dollar budget. As you pointed out, it's a ninety-two point five billion dollar increase from last year, so thirty-eight percent. As I look at those numbers, on this committee when we talk about a one point five trillion dollar defense budget, sometimes these numbers can become abstractions, but I think about this in very concrete terms. We're talking about a sum of money, the increase alone, you know, bigger than the market value of some big companies in this country, bigger than the annual GDP of some of our NATO allies, and it certainly vastly exceeds the annual budget of most states in this great nation, including my home state of New Hampshire, Europe. increase alone would cover ten years of the state of New Hampshire's budget, our public schools, our police, state police officers, roads and bridges. So this is, this is no small request. So I wanna ask you, Mister Secretary, a question I asked you last year. Is the Air Force on track to pass a clean audit this year?

Uh, the uh the direction we were given not this year, direction we were given was uh uh by twenty eight, but we intend to do it by the end of Uh so we are pushing hard to actually meet kind of the direction we were given, which is by FY twenty eight. So we are pushing hard and we're making good progress, right. And I I I agree with you Congresswoman, it's a lot of money, it's it I I see it as one of my core jobs is to make sure we effectively spend those resources to increase national security now and for decades to come.

Well I appreciate that and that you know you pointed out last year where you were previously, you you were at in a place where failing an audit was not an option, and that is the spirit I hope you'll continue to bring uh to the Air Force, cuz public trust depends on clean audits across the Pentagon. So I look forward, I'll follow up with some questions for the record, we wanna support you in this effort uh in every way that we can. And I'm I'm grateful for what you've said about being a custodian of taxpayer dollars. Um when I think about where we can crack down on waste, fraud and abuse, um I'm thinking a lot about the GAO weapons system annual assessment that I took a look at. When we you look at lag times, delays, and cost overruns, uh the report from June of last year pointed to forty-nine billion dollars in cost overruns, the vast majority of which thirty billion uh was attributed to the the Sentinel program. And when I look at what we can do to keep our system's on track and our costs in alignment. You know, the president issued an executive order earlier this year that goes to what I think, uh, uh, is really the source of some of our trouble. Stock buybacks, dividend pay-downs, payouts, and exorbitant executive salaries in some of these big defense companies. So I I wanna ask you, uh, how the implementation of the president's executive order is going, um, and I wanna know

Uh uh uh I'll try to be quick, cuz I I could talk about this for at least an hour.

Well I look forward to sitting down with you and talk with you about it.

I I I I I generally I I I I I think you you're hitting on a lot a lot of very important points. Um um first off first off uh a absolutely could Congress be helpful, uh right to repair, data rights, any congressional and we'd be happy to to work on that, uh ideally with with access to data rights.

So I take it you support our our warrior right to repair act?

And in and also additional like with getting access to data, uh just across the board we think is we think is important and and sometimes this is the area where we we we'd actually like help from from from the Hill. So I'd be happy to continue to work with you on that. Uh, with respect to kind of the EO, absolutely. Um, the defense industry in general has has taken notice of that. Uh, the Deputy Secretary Warren, Secretary Warren, the Deputy Secretary Warren Feinberg, uh, and Secretary Hegseth have been very supportive of us in in basically really making the contractors uh meet what they're signing up to right so we are pushing hard also to make them make investments in facilitation and the other things that are necessary for them to deliver capability uh but at the same time just as importantly we are pushing hard to to grow that industry base some of the much lower cost more rapid automated production systems are really paying great dividends right we're seeing a lot of some of the low cost cruise missiles uh i've been very very impressed uh with that and i would just say uh yeah we talk a lot about sentinel and some other programs when I opened my opening statement I I made a a a statement that we've short changed because of the really the the lowest investment we've had from a GDP perspective in in in many decades we short changed O and M but we also short short changed modernization what I say by that is when I look at the restructure of the Sentinel program the initial figure we went in for that program was totally inexecutable we were making very unreal cause just because of the restricted budget we were trying to operate under we made a very

Mm-hmm.

large number of super aggressive assumptions on how efficiently we could execute the program which were really not doable,

Man. Awesome.

right. So we are making a conscious effort to not let that happen.

I'll be more than willing to help.

So when we come to you and tell you what something's gonna cost, that's what it's gonna cost, right. And so that that and doing that across the board.

What a relief.

Jen, Jen O'Lady's time has expired. The chair now recognizes the gentleman from Texas, Mister Fallon, for five minutes.

Thank you, Chairman, and I want to congratulate you all on uh The joint service op, uh, ab- absolute resolve, it was really, uh, epic, uh, right on and tevi historic, so, uh, very well done and congratulations, General, and thank you for your service to the republic. Wanted to touch on four things real quickly. Uh, Mr. Secretary, uh, I wanted to visit with you about recruiting, it was a an issue that, uh, under the prior administration we weren't hitting recruiting goals, uh, year over year, and now we have, we've turned that corner and just wanted to d- uh, visit with you very quickly on your plan to continue to make sure that we're ever vigilant because if we don't hit those numbers, we're in a world of hurt.

So I have to say I feel extremely lucky to be secretary of the Air Force. Uh, I think we hit our recruiting goals five months early, uh, for five months prior to the end of the year. Uh, we have almost a couple years of, of, uh, actually backlog of recruits waiting to come into the department.

Good problem to have.

So it's a, it's a really good problem to have and, and we're really getting the talent too. So we're gonna continue to push on that and a big part of that is just making sure uh that that you know and the country sees that that how how important the department of the air force is both space and air to our national security uh and then and then when we get them in make their job interesting and and and rewarding and and good quality life good quality service so across the board we're we're working on that.

Uh and uh General Wilsbach can you talk to me about the pilot shortage and what we're doing there to address it and what can Congress do to help you uh mitigate that issue?

I'm your helpin' with one aspect and that is the uh ability to do the max amount on the the bonus, the pilot bonus, which is effective. Um another aspect that we're looking at is um more flying, and so this twenty-seven budget gets us uh ten about ten billion dollars for flying. Uh the the pilots wanna fly, they don't wanna sit on the ground and do admin.

No they

Uh so more flying hours keeps them in. And then the last piece is quality of life things like uh ability to stay at their uh their duty locations for longer periods of time versus moving every two or three years. And so those three things are the - the - that - the features that, uh, we think are gonna help us with pilot retention and - and that'll in turn help with the pilot shortage. In addition to that, uh, we're meeting our goals for creating fifteen hundred pilots per year. We did that this year.

Yeah, I was gonna ask that, Nick. Yeah.

Yep, we did that this year and we see no issues with doing that into the future. And the - the - the challenge will be absorbing all those into line cockpits.

OK. Uh Congressman Jackson's not here but uh NGEPT, I was stationed at Shepherd so that's in his district and it used to be my state senate district so it is close and near and dear uh to my heart. Uh General Saltzman uh wanted to just visit with you a little bit on the importance of not only uh what we're doing in space but in your department as far as cyber as well. And uh talk about maybe if there's things that Congress can do or uh and hear your thoughts on recruiting not just uh military personnel to this the cyber realm but also civilians that may be really talented at what we need them to do but may not quite conform to wear the uniform if you know what I mean.

Well thank you it's uh cyber is critical uh in fact it's indistinguishable from space operations, if you can't control the the networks that distribute the data, you can't do the space missions. Uh so we take it very seriously in fact in Ukraine the the Russians are First attack was a ground attack, cyber attack against a Viasat network. So, if you're vulnerable in the network, you might as, you're vulnerable on orbit as well. So we take it very seriously. We're, we're doing a couple of things. Uh, one, uh, enhancing the cyber training, uh, from a defensive network standpoint. Uh, making sure that we have sensors in all of our mission systems so that we can rapidly see if there's any problems or any kind of activities on our mission systems. That's important work. Uh, we've got two programs of record that we're trying to fully fund to make sure that we have rapid uh response to any intrusions on our network system, especially those mission systems. But we're also trying to gain um access to the kind of expertise in the civilian world that you mentioned uh by giving constructive credit. So if you join the Space Force, you have cyber credibility from the outside, we try to give you that in terms of promotions early. So we might bring you in as a captain or a major. And so several of our officers have been brought in at accelerated rank because of the credibility they brought from the outside so it's uh it's working.

Sure. Like like we do with medical, let's say, but

That's exactly right.

OK. And I got a little bit of time left, Mr. Secretary, I wanted to talk to you about the plane that will not die, the A ten. Uh, I remember almost maybe it was thirty years ago there was a plan to to to mothball it, and yet it's still here and it still has use. Uh, what, how do you see us using the A ten in the future?

Uh, again, I asked for a little help from uh uh the chief here, but but uh generally it's in the it's in the combat, search and rescue role is its primary role right now. Uh, it it is a great platform. Uh and and we're gonna keep it around uh really in many cases to provide that capability and not have a loss of capability as we replace it with with even more combat effective aircraft

and i would say we can we can use it in a more permissive environment in really high threat environments um we we are challenged with having it survive and and so we would we would need to have

yeah

have it be in an in a permissive environment

it's kinda like time back where the skies

you know just anyway real tough

When I was when I was in college and and thought I might get a pilot's slot, I did not but uh the ATEM was actually the aircraft I wanted to fly so it tells you a bit how long that platform's been around.

And Mister Chairman my time is expired I yield back thank you.

Yes sir thank you. The gentleman yields back. The chair now recognizes the gentle lady from Maryland, Miss Elfrith.

Thank you Mister Chair, gentlemen thank you for being here, General Sultzman thank you for your three and a half decades and your family's of service to this country. We greatly appreciate it. And I'd be remiss if I didn't ask you to pass along to your successor. I wanna align myself with Congressman Whitman's comments about Wallops Island in Virginia while it's in his commonwealth about half of the employees live in Maryland and so anything that we can do to be supportive of trying to alleviate some of the pressure on the other um other assets that you have with Wallops I wanna be a part of that team so I I appreciate that. Um I do wanna gentlemen just touch on the fuel spill at Joint Base Andrews just briefly, um, twenty-two thousand gallons of jet fuel flowing, uh, through a creek into the Potomac. Obviously nobody wants that in their district, in their community, in their state. I do wanna thank you both. Um, your staff has made themselves available to my office on many occasions to brief us on this I know we're still kind of searching for some answers and while the investigation's underway I just if I could have you both commit to me, um, to brief the full Maryland delegation when that investigation is complete.

Uh, absolutely.

I appreciate that. Um, just lessons learned I think are gonna be important here to prevent this from happening in in future communities. Um, I wanna piggyback on the comments about cyber, and Mister Secretary, thank you for sitting down with the Maryland delegation last year to talk about the cyber wing um for our Air National Defense in Maryland. Uh, I ha- I've been toying with whether I should use this pun, but we have to land that plane still uh in Maryland and so we need to make sure that MilKon is there that we're actually building out the the necessary uh home for that cyber wing as we all acknowledge cyber is becoming more and more important with every passing mission um for all of our services. I'm a little concerned though, you know, we're not quite behind the ball, but I just I need to hear both from you about what we can do to get that milk on in line. The planning is about I believe it's about fifteen percent right now and we need to get it to thirty-five as quickly as possible get that on the ground and then grow, that cyber mission, if either of you have any thoughts on that.

So I believe we've actually received the thirty five percent design bill package,

Okay.

and we are going through the process of of reviewing that package. So I think that's actually uh at least the feedback I got uh yesterday was that

Okay.

that pa- that package is in pretty good shape.

Okay.

So we are we are uh we believe we're on on track to do that. They're they're working how they're gonna do the training uh for the unit and do that transition and and as you m- as you mentioned as we've all mentioned, cyber is critically important and we wanna make sure we get that done.

I had a note here that said it was completed in Completion due in May, so I guess I'm just a day late.

Guess we're in May.

I appreciate that.

Night.

OK. Uh, thank you, and and of course we wanna work with you to to land that that plane. Um, following up on the Warthog, uh, unfortunately Marilyn lost our A tens uh, as we're gaining the cyber mission, which is very important. But I do, especially since we had uh Admiral Cooper here yesterday talking about the A tens and their their unique capability particularly for him in CENTCOM right now. And I'm just I'm worried about this gap that we might have uh in capability. You mentioned you know, adding that capability to other aircraft. But can you give us or this committee a sense of do you appreciate that there could be a gap? And - and how are we going to make sure that we are, uh, being seamless in that capability?

Right. So the mission of the A-ten is close air support. Uh, part of that subset of close air support is combat search and rescue. Uh, and we can do close air support and we can do combat, uh, or combat search and rescue support from other platforms. And it's unacceptable to have a gap. Uh, if you have somebody down behind enemy lines like we saw with dude four four Bravo, you have to go get them. It's it's our

Exactly.

I mean, it's our duty, right? So we will not have a gap in support to CISAR.

And I would say the the the extension, uh, working with the President and Secretary, the extension and then with support from the Congress, uh, the extension of the A ten units, basically slowing down the retirement of those,

Well, there's nothing like a a plan's great, but a plan in the budget is even better, and so making sure we are actually funding that training.

So, uh, this twenty-seven budget has ten billion dollars for flying hours. In those flying hours we can train to this mission.

Okay. I appreciate that. Um, I had one further question, but I'll I'll submit it for the record, just around storm water f- uh flooding fund s- storm water funding for flooding. uh across all of our bases it's incredibly challenging and it's kind of pushing out many other priority Melcon projects when we have to address flooding in on the ground right now but we will submit it for the record so uh with that I yield.

General Lady yields. Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Minnesota, Mister Finstad.

Thank you Mister Chair, uh thank you to our uh our great leaders here today uh General Salzman, thank you for having us uh at your retirement party. It's great to be here. Thank you for your service. Really appreciate uh the opportunity to get to know you and to learn uh from you, and to really see your leadership in action. So congratulations on a great career. Uh, Minnesota's home to some of our nation's most dedicated and effective guardsmen and women. The hundred and forty-eighth Fighter Wing is consi- uh consistently one of the top performing wings. in the Air Guard and it's consistently and constantly called upon to support overseas missions uh unfortunately the Guard is sometimes overlooked by the DOW despite their involvement in every major conflict and more recently operations Midnight Hammer uh Absolute Resolve and Epic Fury excuse me. Secretary Menk I wanna thank you for finalizing the op sixteen seventeen uh basing criteria and for putting such an emphasis on unit performance and airspace. I think it is common sense that our best equipment is most utilized when put in the hands of our top soldiers. Airspace plays such a crucial role in training and evaluating units. These developments are greatly appreciated. So with that, uh I believe it's important uh I believe an important consideration is strategic location of our fighter wings, although it's not mentioned in the criteria. So secretary uh Mank, when developing the these criteria did you or your staff have any discussions about the importance of aerospace control alert detachments particularly in the northern tier

uh yeah and uh yeah there was a discussion and um i'm gonna go back and take an even closer look to make sure that we've captured what kinda i think you're pulling out a little bit here uh but under strategic alignments uh units uh pulling that type of alert actually can get points uh during the uh scoring Uh, I think it's also important that as, as we go through the scoring, the Wing Commander and the Agent General have an opportunity uh, to look at how we're doing that to, to make sure that we're, we're doing it right. Um, so I, I think, I think we've captured that, uh, but I will go back and make sure that we didn't miss them.

I appreciate that. Uh, in the criteria for the OPS sixteen seventeen, the specific details for several capacity categories, such as munition, storage, weapon space, uh, they're not clearly defined. and this makes it difficult to understand how inclusive the cat codes will be uh do you have the details for those cat codes readily available and if not would you be willing to commit to transmitting them to my office

i can commit to providing that information but again i believe that that in my review uh yesterday that those all those things are actually captured uh within the criteria but i'll make sure

yeah and i appreciate that i do realize this is hot off the press information but the hundred and forty eighth and the folks in Minnesota are obviously very aware and uh uh in tune with what's going on here and I wanna be as helpful as I can be to my constituents.

A- and again I I will go take a look but the things that you mentioned are pretty much core things we look at so I just wanna make sure that I understand how they're being captured but I'm I'm pretty confident they are.

Yeah, just uh for you know just just to get this in your mind, the hundred and forty eighth Minnesota, just keep saying that to yourself uh We uh we really value uh the men and women uh that are in the hundred and forty eighth and what they bring not only to the state of Minnesota but to our defense space uh nationwide worldwide and uh really honored to represent uh those folks. And so I appreciate your service, appreciate uh this hearing today, and with that I yield back, Mister Chair. Gentleman yields back, here and I recognize the gentleman from Virginia, Mister Binderman.

Thank you, Chairman. Uh I wanna also thank you, General Salzman, for your decades. of honorable service to this country and I appreciated uh meeting you last year and uh you lead uh a an amazing and really um a a uh a portion of the military that is absolutely indispensable in in modern warfare and I'm I'm proud of the work that the Space Force does and the delta that's stationed at at um Delgrin uh Air um Naval Base. So, thank you for that. Uh, Secretary M- uh, Mink, um, thank you for your response to the bipartisan letter that Rep Turner and I sent to you regarding the Ukrainian F-sixteen program. I want to give you an opportunity, uh, in this open setting to update the committee on where things stand, and can you speak to how the, um, SAFIA is functioning as a single point of contact and whether that designation has improved coordination with uh DSCA, state and European partners?

My understanding is is i- it is has improved in that those discussions are are going well. Uh, it's uh, um, obviously there's still work to be done, but but I think the the coordination is is good.

Good. So our letter flagged specific munitions for shortfalls affecting Fsixteen's operational impact. And without getting into sensitive details, can you speak generally to whether deliveries are moving in the right direction, either from the United States or from NATO partners, and what a role this uh budget plays in sustaining that momentum.

Uh, yeah. So I can't probably dive into the sensitive details here, but what I would say is that uh we've leaned a way forward in supporting the Deputy Secretary of War and and with it to all the requests that we're we're we're getting out of, uh out of Ukraine. Uh, uh, Chief, do you have any additional

Uh, no, I mean it's it's a balancing act uh our priorities uh because not only are we um helping ukraine but our other uh allies in the middle east as well are getting munitions so we're we're balancing all those requests from our partners

thank you for that sounds like there is movement in the right direction so i wanna turn my attention now uh general uh wills bach to um the flying hours program and so the fy twenty seven budget is a one point eight billion dollar increase to that program. Is that accurate?

Yes.

And that program sustains one point one million uh flying hours

Correct.

cross um critical missions as um three hundred thousand uh hours for training platforms like the T seven, two hundred thirty thousand almost for combat uh air force platforms like F twenty-two and F thirty-five. And then three hundred six thousand for the global global mobility. Is that is that accurate?

I'd have to go back and look exactly at those. The they're they're in the ballpark.

OK. I think those are generally accurate. I mean, one point eight billion is a lot of money, and and the reason why that um that amount struck me is because um the president sued his own government, um and then directed his attorney general to settle the lawsuit. for that exact amount of money. And I've been getting phone calls, actually for the last uh day or so, dozens of phone calls about this friends and family slush fund. And general, I I fear that given that we have a finite amount of money in our budget that um we may not be able to provide the hundreds of thousands of of hours, flying hours for readiness because they're going to a slush fund. We have a finite amount of money, American taxpayer, hard-earned money going into the - into the government fisc could be spent on national security, which is a measure like this, literally one point eight billion, the same amount of money could be spent on health care. It could be spent on, um, it could be spent on food nutrition programs. That's a significant amount of money. Unfortunately, this president, in an act of corruption I think never before seen, in the history of this country has decided to create a friends and family slush fund. Now, oh, by the way, as part of the settlement, also, uh, directed his own attorney general to never investigate him or his two sons' business. So that one point eight billion dollars of, uh, taxpayer money has been allocated and, uh, I'm I'm not sure we have it in the budget. But thank you. With that, I yield back.

Gentleman yields back, Chair, and I recognize the gentleman from Guam, Mister Moylan.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you to our panel. Sir. Mr. Secretary, got a little story there where I remember what we went through, but I really appreciate the opportunity to be in front of you folks and I thank you for uh your service to our nation our states and our territories and the homeland. So thank you, thank you so much. But, Mr. Secretary, I appreciate you coming on out to Guam. I think it was early on in your uh assignment. It was one of your first trips and we had the opportunity to literally hang out together in the back of a plane, open bay and just dangling our feet out there as we traveled across the islands. It was a good experience for you, I hope, and I I did that once and I'm I'm good. So But I appreciate you coming on out and and realizing the importance of of the islands. And you were able to also see the um the massive buildup we're having there and and I'm sure you understand the importance of our work. since we don't get it from the mainland and our workforce is not uh there for the visa waivers as apple pickers. We have H one workforce there, uh a um skilled uh engineers and doctors and nurses that we rely on, because of our shortage of expertise. And H two B workers there as well during the um build-up in construction that we got going. Um but yep, we have difficulties uh maintaining uh our long-term we uh we had to go back and forth uh with our uh different budgets that we have to insure we can have them in the long run too for the completion of this important mission uh for the success of our our nation. Uh and most recently we have uh some issue with our H one. Uh I understand the uh we want uh US workers of course to uh to be hired in the US but Unfortunately, we don't have that uh luxury on on Guam, uh most western soil so close out there uh to Asia and in the Pacific, and it costs an additional hundred thousand dollars for now the H ones uh to come and get reassigned and plays a big role in with our contractors that are on base and building uh and is just gonna increase the costs of which will be passed on to um the Department of uh Department of War the different branches as well. So I'd I'd just your opinion on on also the uh the importance that we maintain this workforce, and what projects do you see them assigned to, and the importance of us continuing that workforce, Mister Secretary.

Uh, so I don't I don't think I could go into the specifics on what projects uh they would be assigned to um uh obviously Guam is gonna continue to be a critically important uh is is as you know uh very well the amount of capability we have there and amount of additional capability and and and and it just as geographic location would be critical and how we talk about agile combat employment um so so we are willing to i'm willing to work with you however we can help on on on the workforce uh and and what are the innovative things we can do from a military construction and FSRM out there so i really appreciate Really appreciate your support and be happy to work with you on that, right?

Thank you, thank you very much. Uh, General uh, Will's back. Uh, speaking of SR uh, SFSRM and MILCON and the FY twenty-seven budget, um, there there's that increase, of course, and looking at Anderson Air Force Base for Guam, the strategic location, the importance, see the most western soil. Um, how much of that increased funding do you see going to Anderson Air Force base and what projects could you highlight for us?

I'll have to get the, first of all, half a day. Uh, but uh, I'll have to get you the uh, the details for Anderson specific. Uh, the, in general, what I would uh, what I would like to see at Anderson is things that help us to improve the readiness of the of the island and and also um of our base there at Anderson.

Uh, thank you. Final question, General Salesman. I remember the first day I saw you, I said, this guy is sharp, man. And still this day you're still you're still very sharp. I appreciate your service, sir. Uh, also, uh, the other day we heard from Centricom and and they said how important it was for our Space Force to uh be part of that. And I'm hoping that Indo-Pacom, that's the same importance that we have there. So for uh in Guam, uh, you know, we had the Marine Corps, we got the Navy, we got the Air Force. uh we have the army uh coast guard merchant marines but we don't have space force there you know if if you think in just a couple of seconds there is is that something we can see for the build up the build out that you're planning to come to guam

yes

it's we're hard to see sometimes in plain sight but we we do have capability there we don't have a lot of people uh necessary but we have the remote tracking stations uh there at guam and we plan to put additional capabilities there as well so space Thank you.

Sir. Yeah, I've had a chance to visit with several of the guardians in Guam and uh we we are there. We're gonna we're gonna grow it though. With that, uh, Chair recognizes the gentleman from Missouri, Mister Bale.

Thank you, Mister Chair, thank you to our witnesses for being here today. Uh, general, I echo uh my colleagues' remarks. Thank you for your service. Um, I'm proud that my district has become a major hub for the development and production of some of our nation's most advanced aircraft as well as cutting edge UAS and counter UAS capabilities. We're proud to have Scott Air Force Base just across the Mississippi River, home to Air Mobility Command, the major command responsible uh for providing global airlift, aerial refueling, aeromedical evacuation, and mobility support operations. that rapidly project and sustain US military forces worldwide. I've said it before and I'll say it again, the St. Louis region is a sleeping giant. St. Louis is already playing a leading role in supporting our national security today, while also helping develop and produce the solutions needed to address the threats of tomorrow. Aircraft development and production remain an anchor of our economy and industrial base. But defense technology, AI, geo, geo-INT and advanced capabilities are increasingly at the center of that growth. At a time when our Air Force and installations across the Middle East face persistent threats from small and medium-sized drones, recognizing, investing in and accelerating these capabilities is more important now than ever. The Air Force has a responsibility to keep aircraft, munitions, fuel and command nodes protected so it can continue generating combat power even under persistent drone attack. We need field-ready capabilities that can move quickly, integrate seamlessly and protect high-value assets now. Secretary Mink and General Wilsbach, the Army has worked with a variety of industry partners to develop potential counter-UAS solutions, including the mobile low, slow, small, unmanned aircraft integrated defeat system? Will you commit to ex- accelerating the field the fielding of proven mobile counter UA S capabilities, leveraging work already being done across the joint force and assure this committee that the department is prioritizing rapid and scalable deployment using existing production ready systems?

Um, yes, Congressman, I I appreciate your emphasis on this i've been talking about this for years and in fact um in epic fury we actually did leverage some of the army programs and put them at air bases

thank you

it it yeah it needs to be uh again nuclear deterrence and and cyber are are some of the biggest threats that we face but uh defending our air bases not only overseas but but in the homeland is is is becoming an increasing high priority um and we are working closely with uh OSD you know uh OSD and joint staff to to in the various task forces that we've set up to really focus on delivering this capability and and i think we agree a hundred percent is the the airmen and guardians have a responsibility to defend our our air bases defend our our forces uh regardless of where they are and we are focusing on all the way from uh electronic warfare to to uh directed energy to to kinetic uh capabilities to defend defend our airmen and guardians.

Um, Secretary Mink and General Wilsbach again. Recent reporting and the President's budget requests indicate that the Air Force is looking to explain exp- expand, excuse me, the Plan fifteen EX Eagle-two fleet to help maintain fighter capacity during the transition to next generation platforms. Can you discuss the role F-fifteen EX is expected to play in the Air Force's broader fighter road map?

Yes, Congressman, the F-fifteen EX um will be an air superiority um fighter. And um it's actually n- not necessarily a bridge to something else, it's to fill in a gap. Most of our fifth and sixth gen or all of our fifth and sixth gen aircraft carry their weapons internally, which uh negates the ability to carry really big weapons, and that's what the F-fifteen does. And so the F-fifteen EX will be an air superiority aircraft that will be able to carry really long range missiles, and it also will have an air ground capability as well, and it can carry, just like the F-fifteen E, can carry some very heavy munitions, and so we get um some big bang for our buck there.

I'll I'll sub- my time is up, so I'll submit my questions, but thank you all. You're welcome.

Gentleman yields back. Chair now recognizes the gentleman from Texas, Doctor Jackson.

Uh, thank you, Mister Chairman. Uh, thank you gentlemen for being here today. Appreciate your time. Uh, before we get started, General, I I wanna also thank you for taking time to meet with the uh Shepherd Military Affairs Committee and members of the Wichita Falls community during their recent DC, fly-in. That was much appreciated. Thank you. Um, during my most recent visit to the Shepherd Air Force Base, a pressing issue came to my attention. Currently, Air Force installation unit man-powered document authorizations, the UMD primarily reflects uh reflect permanently assigned personnel and there is no requirement to account for the sustained support demands generated by large rotational student populations as a result major training installations like Shepherd which produce forty-eight percent which produces forty-eight percent of our tech training graduates and fifty percent of all US fighter pilots experience severe man power shortfalls relative to their actual day-to-day workload for example the eighty-second medical group must provide care for more than half of the Air Force's annual throughput of airmen in training as well as for student pilots in the Euro NATO uh Euro NATO Jet Pilot Training Program yet none of these rotational trainees were captured in the base's UMD authorizations general is the Air Force open to a new approach that properly resources the workload generated by rotational student populations specifically what are your thoughts on integrating an installation's average daily load the ADL the steady-state population physically present in requiring installation support into UMD authorizations to improve manpower planning for essential services, like housing, medical care, logistics, security, and base operations.

Um, yes, uh, Congressman, agree. Uh, they, they do have a lot of folks there, and in fact, um, just in March, uh, we author authorized some special pay increases for the staff that's uh that's there at um Shepherd. Uh, so that, uh, we, you know, one, we can keep more people there, uh, so that, um, the, they can, uh, support, uh, support the base. Um, it's, um, a th- thirty-five percent, uh, increase for, uh, GS, uh, eleven and twelve and then a, uh, a lesser increase for, for higher ranked structures. But, um, agree with you that, um, we, we need to do something, uh, and, and this, these measures will help us with that to keep the, the base population that's there working um while we have additional people there going through training

absolutely yeah i think that's key i i mean paying them more money my second question is gonna come is gonna address a little bit of that as well but we need more bodies too i think you know just uh with my previous example with uh having been in in the in the medical corps for a while uh you know it's uh it it it it's it's difficult to retain people when they're in that environment where they're so overwhelmed with the you know uh the number of the number of people that they're responsible for everyday because they're just short bodies so yeah

agreed and the twenty seven budget also allows for an increase in the total end strength of the Air Force. And as we look at where there are needs, because we'll have those extra bodies that will be funded, we'll be able to apply those in places where we're shorthanded.

Perfect. I got one more quick question here and then I have two questions I'm gonna submit for the record for you Mister Secretary but uh I'm concre uh I'm increasingly concerned by the declining uh manning levels for the civilian simulator instructors particularly Shepherd Air Force's ba- base's eightieth flying training wing home to the Euro NATO Jet Pilot training program an aging and rising retirements are creating critical shortages of these instructors directly threatening our pilot generation pipeline. Because these GS positions comp- uh compete directly with the private sector, namely commercial aviation and advanced tech industry, start, pay, and benefit disparities, as well as slow hiring timelines, severely limit the Air Force's ability to recruit talent. Left unaddressed, this short- this shortage will force reductions in class loading, worsening the Air Force's broader While at short fall. Mister Secretary, are you and your team aware of this growing challenge and how can the Air Force, whether through direct hire authority, expanded use of special salary rates, recruitment incentives, retention allowances, or other targeted hiring flexibilities, mitigate this issue and help ensure consistent instructor manning at critical training instillation insti installations like Shepherd?

Yeah, thanks, Garvis. But I think I'd point out two things. The first is we're we're actually delegating uh uh h- civilian hiring authority down uh to the senator level or below in some cases to actually accelerate across the board hiring and make that easier and faster so that when people do apply they're not sitting around forever waiting to get waiting to get picked up. Uh and then secondly the as as General Wolfsbach mentioned uh we are looking at incentive bonuses or incentive pay um across the the ranks to to bring people on and keep them

Yes sir, I think that's gonna be key and uh I'm willing to help in in any way I can in making that happen. Uh, I have two questions I'm gonna submit for the record. One uh is related to uh the uh MH one thirty nine and uh the plan to uh put uh H sixties into a a program here to uh shuttle uh folks around in the NCR. And the last the last question will involve the T seven, but I'll I don't have time to ask these questions, so I'll submit these for the record. I yield back, Mr. Chair.

Gentlemen, it's back to your recognized gentleman from Colorado, Mr. Crow.

Thank you, Chairman, thank you to all of you for joining today, appreciate your your service and your testimony, special thank you to General Saltzman uh for your long and and honorable and uh incredible career uh in service to the country uh and as a founding chair of the the Space Force caucus it's been a real delight to work with you actually over the last couple of years we haven't always agreed uh but we've done great work together we've had some good debates together but you always come informed uh committed transparent and and I can always work with that so grateful for your your work so for old times' sake you know I have to raise LP four eighty," uh which was one of those things we disagreed on, and and uh Secretary Mink, um I I lost that battle, I fought it uh on a bipartisan basis, uh every every uh tag, every governor joined me and expressed some concerns about it. Uh you all got it passed in the NDAA, so now we're just trying to implement it the best we can and address it. And one of the concerns that uh the tags and governors and and um we raised was this issue of some guardsmen and women falling through the cracks. Uh, and unfortunately that is actually happening a little bit in the States. Uh, so I sent you a letter, uh, Secretary Mink, uh, May eighteenth, every, uh, every member of the Colorado delegation, Republican and Democrat, signed on to this and joined me because we have almost four hundred guardsmen and women who are kind of in limbo now, who haven't been, many of whom haven't been remissioned, who have decided not to join this So I'll I'll So I'll I'll

I'll look at the letter, Congressman, and I I know we've had a number of discussions on this, but I I do wanna reiterate that that that the state will not lose guard positions. Those bills were staying there. Uh, I think what you're you're poking at a little bit is is we need to get on with that remissioning to just make people have a better understanding of where they fit and and and how they wanna participate so so we're working with the local guards to do that not just Colorado but across the board uh but but again I wanna reiterate that the states are are not losing billets with respect to guards, those who didn't transfer, those billets were staying, uh we just need to get them remission to to get the people back to work.

I appreciate that, and and there's actually no dispute, I'm not disputing your commitment to that, but we just wanna get them working, we wanna get them a mission. We've lost fourteen of them, is my understanding already, to retirements, them saying you know I'm not gonna just sit around and not do anything, transfer to other units, we just wanna make sure we're doing right by them and their families, and giving them some certainty, so I appreciate that commitment. Um, the the last last piece um Secretary Mink is uh Buckley Space Force Base has been selected as a preferred site uh for the nuclear micro-reactor as part of the Air Force's advanced nuclear power installations initiative. This is exciting. Uh, this is something that I've I've supported the research and development on. Uh, obviously power is uh a problem and, you know, the rate payers in Colorado, like many places, pay way too much. And uh taking uh Buckley's um energy off of the grid will will relief, rate, pair, pressure, uh and also assure resiliency. But we do wanna make sure it's the right thing. Cuz you talk about micro-reactors, uh understandably everyone in the community has questions and and they want engagement and I raised my kids just a couple of miles from Buckley as well. So uh the bottom line is I I wanna be able to s- support this, uh this is a good initiative, but uh I just want the Air Force's commitment they'll y- you'll work with us, my office and the Senator's offices in Colorado to do robust community engagement. I think this is key, is making sure we're meeting with the local counties, the cities, city counselors, the the neighborhood associations to put information out there, answer people's questions, and just do really robust engagement on the front end so that uh uncertainty and any anxiety about this is is addressed.

Absolutely willing to to work with you on on that and in the communication plans. I I I'm a big supporter, I I believe uh in many ways that that that's the future. Um I I was actually out in California uh um last weekend and spent uh a few hours with a contractor that's delivering that reactor radiant uh that that is uh it's about as safe as power sources as you can come up with it's just amazing the levels of of safety they have just inherent within within that approach. Um I'd put it outside my house,

Great.

no problem at all.

I understand that it's small enough you can Hug it, although that's not recommended.

You you you you I it's not quite that small,

Okay.

but uh but uh actually you could hug it. It would be totally recommended.

Okay, all right.

It it it's basically inert for all practical purposes from the outside.

All right. Okay, well we look forward to working with you. I yield back.

Great. And and I'm a big proponent of it as well. It is the future and we gotta get on with it. I'm thrilled to hear Buckley's one of the places gonna be a part of that pilot program. Gentlemen from Juniors Recognized.

Uh, thank you, Mister Chairman, thank you to our witnesses for being here and General Saltzman. Thank you for your incredible service. I'm only known about the Space Force since I've been in about seventeen months, and you've been the face of it. One of the things we do as members of Congress is we have service academies every year, and I noticed that this year we had a large number of people interested in the Pa- Space Force so I'm looking forward to learning more from you guys, so that I can share that with those guys. Uh, just a question for you, General Saltzman, um, operations Midnight Hammer, Absolute Resolve, and Epic Fury. How critical was Space Force towards the success of those incredible missions and could they have done it without space force?

We have a pretty incredible joint force, uh, so never put anything past them, but I think all of them would agree that with the addition of the space capabilities that were provided, it just made it a little bit easier to get the mission accomplished. So, whether it was integrated into the planning out of the outset, it cutting off uh key uh silent communications that our adversaries were trying to use, whether that was for their own drone capabilities or command and control, Uh, w- we were - we were there to - to - to try to deny those, and - and we did a pretty good job of it. Probably the most important thing though is the - the targeting capabilities that we provide as well as the warning uh of the missiles that are inbound, and the tracking of those missiles uh put up a pretty capable defense. So whether it was in planning, in execution, or in defense of our forces, the Space Force is right there supporting.

We appreciate it. Um, so this is a question for um either w- maybe - maybe the secretary is uh how important is the uh Anderall s uh c c the advanced fighter what is it the uh c c f c c f how important how do you say it

c c f c c a collaborative combat aircraft

that's it how how uh effective is the c c e a and how does it compare to our adversaries

i think well it's gonna be very effective uh it would i'm a huge fan of the program two contractors Andrew and G A both of them are doing a great job I think it's gonna be a a a massive uh cost efficient force multiplier for our our combat our combat air force. I think I think again both contractors are already flying and demonstrating and and and exercises or other activities. Uh with respect to our our adversaries, I I don't know, probably can't go into the details, but I don't know of anything that is approaching uh what we're doing, uh but uh maybe have General Wolfsbach add a few comments about it.

No, he's exactly right, the it uh we we see some evidence that they're pursuing what we've already got flying, but they're years behind us.

Yeah, you've only had a few questions this week about the A- ten, but talking to operators from all all branches, they just say that a hundred percent of every operator says it's it's the best thing that we can have when you need help on the ground for close air support, especially combat search and rescue. Do we have any other aircraft currently that can match the capabilities of the A- ten Warthog?

Well, ma- match is probably in the eye of the beholder. Uh, we have other aircraft that are capable of doing close air support, and um certainly can support combat search and rescue.

Well, I'm glad you guys decided to keep that going until twenty thirty. I would, until we see something that's capable, I'd like to see it go further. Is finding spare parts, getting spare parts gonna be a challenge over the next couple of years?

Uh, I don't think so, especially with the twenty-seven budget and the uh the dollars that we have uh for flying hours and weapon system sustainment but for the a ten it's not that we're keeping all of the a tens uh we are still retiring some of them and we'll keep up to three squadrons into twenty thirty um what that allows us to do is fleet manage and so as you have aircraft that get to the end of their life uh we can use them for parts send them to the bone yard and so the ones that you keep flying are gonna be sustained

you mean this may not be a a necessary thing or a possible thing, but if some reason you wanted to go to the Boneyard and reactivate some of those aircraft in the future, is that a possibility?

Yes, we actually just did that with a KC-one thirty-five um about two weeks ago.

Awesome. What about the uh the B-twenty-one? How's our progress looking on that?

It's uh it's going very well. Uh you probably saw the news, we just recently did the the first air refueling. Uh we're quite happy uh with the progress that Northrop is making. Uh we've also asked them to increase

What's the status of the F-fifteen? I think you call it EX, the newest version?

Correct. Uh, it's it's uh it's going well. It's a fantastic aircraft, uh the ones that we've received, I would like to see Boeing uh meet their contractual obligation of two per month in

Have you used any of them yet, combat?

Uh, no.

Awesome. Well, I appreciate your service, and with that I yield back.

Gentlemen, yields back to you, and I recognize the gentleman from California, Mister Whitesides.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, and uh thank you to our witnesses for uh joining us uh today. Um, I represent California's twenty seventh district, as you probably know, which is home to plan forty two, uh where the future of American air power is being built, the B twenty one radar. Thank you uh, Congressman, for uh asking some of my questions, will be a cornerstone of our nuclear deterrent and a powerful signal to adversaries that the United States will always be able to reach and defeat any threat anywhere. Um, right next door sits Lockheed Skunk Works, the birthplace of the U-two, the SR-seventy-one and the F-one seventeen. For decades, Skunk Works has produced breakthroughs that no adversary can anticipate and no competitor could match that traditional, tradition of bold classified in- innovation is a national security asset, and one we must continue to leverage. Um, We are eager to learn at the right time what the ultimate production goals for the B-twenty-one program will be. I note the Secretary of Defense stated to Hask we need a lot more. Indo-Pay comm Commander Paparo said to Hask I favor two hundred, Strat comm Commander Carell said we need one forty-five, not including the joint force requirements. I also note the Air Force comments last week that a process is underway and welcome any updates they can provide on the department's reassessment. Mister Secretary, are there any comments you'd like to make to the committee on your current plans for the program?

Again the the program is going well. Uh uh uh again these are all very complicated and extremely capable systems. Uh it's great that we have essentially two of them flying and and one has done done some air refueling and uh they're in build of production aircraft uh in many forms right now so it all looks good. Uh we are working closely with thanks to some congressional help uh with the congressional ads uh to increase production we are working to To be honest, we're working to squeeze as much out of the facilitization that we can. Um, it's gonna be a long-term production, no question about it, uh but uh I don't know if I can go to the specifics on the numbers, but but we are squeezing every little bit of production out of them that we can and we're closely with the contractor to do that. Uh with respect to the requirements, yeah the the chairman uh um signed up to taking a look at the requirements and we are working closely with them and all the customers, and you know that's a dual use platform, both nuclear and conventional, uh, global strike and strike comm to to to work through that requirements that we're doing that now I I I think it would be safe to say that that it will be more than a hundred, uh, how many, I I think more than a hundred we're working our way through.

Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Um, I'd like to turn uh my comments to wildfire uh I'm tracking the rapid evolution of our space-based assets with great interest. Um, the threat to military installations in the American West is getting bigger every year we've seen this. clearly in recent large fires, including the Canyon fire, which threatened Vandenberg's base force base. Twelve thousand acres, Waldo Canyon, US Air Force Academy, eighteen thousand acres, Fort Cavazos uh training range, um uh and others. Uh and of course there's the the civil impact, the Palisades and Eaton fires in Southern California uh caused fifty billion dollars of damage and uh the hist- historically the Department of Defense in and other agencies have recognized that keeping bases safe and the homeland safe includes supporting civilian authorities uh during domestic emergencies uh the DOD has built an undeniable track record in wildfire mitigation through targeted programs like Firehawk, Eagle Vision, and of course Fire Guard. Uh the basic principle is defense resources can be uh applied to support uh defensive bases and and uh also civilian um, assets when dis- disaster strikes. Um, there are a few different ways to do this, um, but I'd just love to get your top-level commitment to helping us use the assets that we have, um, including potentially procurement mechanisms around, um, commercial data. There are, there are these new platforms that are coming on. Um, General, you've taken advantage of some of these, and I think your acquisition efforts in that respect are really to be complimented. It's exactly the right direction. We'd love to get your commitment, um, to helping us advance the security of our bases and our front-line communities, uh, in the American West, um, through creative techniques. Um, General Salzman, our Secretary, would you like to make any comments to that? Is that

Well, I'll start. Um, we're absolutely committed to that, and I think th- it starts with understanding what the capabilities are that are out there in the commercial marketplace, and then having contract mechanisms that can be rapidly put in place when the emergency arises. So we're focusing on that service provider, that's our commercial space office, building out the contract vehicles so that we can rapidly pull them in, and then evaluating the technologies as the commercial marks that makes them available uh whether it's imagery uh or otherwise um but our our Vandenberg Fire Department has has spent a lot of time on the road fighting fires and, I think they've been great partners of the community uh and

Gentlemen's times expired. Sure now I recognize gentlemen from uh Indiana, Mister Mesmer, and we have already been called for vote, Celeste.

Okay. Uh, thank you for witnesses for being here today and thank you, Chairman. Uh, General Wilsbach, can you give an update on the development and testing of the AGM one eighty-three, um, ARW and HACOM programs?

Um, yes, Congressman. Uh, they're they're obviously, um, both uh, both are included in this twenty-seven budget. Uh, we we um, are actually trying to um, d- double the production of the arrow from previous years. Uh, the Testing so far is um promising. We've got some test shots um coming up and we'll learn more.

K, thank you. Seeing in the publicly released photo of the B one B uh Lancer bomber carrying an arrow over Air Ed- Air Edwards Air Force Base, when should the committee expect procurement program lines uh to begin to begin for arrow?

Uh, well they've uh they've already really started.

Good, OK, very good. Uh, what manufacturing capability limits are preventing the Air Force from buying hypersonic weapons? and more meaningful quantities.

There's a lot of uh facilitization, there's the supply chain, um there's the commitment from the uh contractors in the defense industrial base to to move out. Um and these are the discussions that we've been having uh with them as a part of the executive order we got from the president.

It should be.

I th- I think what I I think what I'd add is uh in munitions across the board, especially in some of these these hypersonic weapons the the as the as the general said stability long-term stability so that they can facilitize and and do the r and d necessarily get those weapons to a cost point that we can actually afford large numbers of them is critical uh this is another one of the areas where multi-year and other long-term contracts are really really important

um i you know use of long-term contracts sends the demand signal that the industry should need Thank you. Se- Secretary Mink, uh, what is the update on the next generation uh responsive strike program known as XRS? For the last several years the NDA has included language expressing our support and interest in a reusable hypersonic aircraft.

Um, I I can get you uh uh maybe more details on where we stand and and a different environment, uh but the the basic RR and D activities look promising, uh but there's still work to do.

K. Uh, can you give us a picture of what budgeting for reusable hypersonic aircraft technologies might look look like over the next few years?

Uh, I have to get back to you on that, I don't know that when I stop my head.

OK, thank you. Secretary Mink, last year the department argued that the E E seven was not survivable enough, and that other centers could assume uh more of an airborne early uh warning mission. Since then Congress has kept the program alive and and now the Air Force has seven aircraft under contract. What change in the department's assessment of the E seven's value and what gaps would remain if the Air Force does not sustain the FY twenty-seven funding.

Uh so our plan is to submit a a a budget adjustment to fund the FY twenty-seven and as we do the FY twenty-eight build to to to lay in the out-year uh production of of the seven aircraft you mentioned. Uh what's changed is it's actually it's pretty simple Congressman um when the decision to cut the program was made we were looking at an eight ninety top line at the DOW level Uh there were a lot of programs that were valuable that were being cut. Uh that was one of them. Um we knew we needed the space based AMTI for a whole host of reasons we could talk about uh quite a while on, but the bottom line was is at the eight ninety point we we could not afford it and a lot of important programs were being cut. Now that we have more budget flexibility we're working with you uh and uh up through the the executive branch to get it back in the budget.

Excellent. Uh Secretary Mink, if the department supports Golden Dome and a more resilient sensing architecture, should Congress think about the E-seven as part of that layered architecture rather than a stand-alone aircraft?

Uh, I, I guess I would leave the specifics of, of the Golden Dome strategy to General Gutlein, uh, but my understanding is, is that it would be a part of homeland, of, of support of, of the coasts, uh, with the, uh, the capability in that platform. So

Okay, super. Thank you.

It will be a multi-use platform, obviously.

Okay. Uh, secretary of main uh, districts like Indiana's eighth district have deep radar, electronic warfare, and electron electromagnetic spectrum ex- expertise through NWSC crane and local industry. As uh understand the Air Force is buying seven thirty-seven green aircraft from Boeing and then doing the retro fitting of those air frames K. As the Air Force expands the program, would it not benefit from leveraging our domestic industrial base and do that work in the US?

Uh, I think there's some work going on in the UK, um part of the part of it uh part of the uh um the installation is going on in the UK, and part of it is is is going on here. Uh it's again it's one of those joint programs, right?

Okay, I yield back, thank you.

Here now recognizing him from North Carolina, Mister Harrigan.

Uh thank you, Chairman and gentlemen, great to see you before Congress again. I'm gonna keep this short cuz we all gotta get the votes. Uh it's been said that the next great terror attack on our homeland will be like nine eleven without martyrs. Uh, the without martyrs part referring to low cost, highly autonomous drone aircraft. We all know that this is a great threat. Uh, both General Wilchbach in the Air Force and General Salzman at the Space Force have been working hard, uh, to counter this threat. Can you talk about some of the work that you all have done to counter this threat? And can you qualify how much more work we still have yet to do to protect our homeland against this threat?

Uh, so since Epic Fury started, we've really rushed capability to the Middle East. And uh w- uh as I mentioned earlier, we had um some army systems that we um installed in some of our bases to protect those air bases, but even domestically uh we've also rushed several systems out to key bases uh with um h- high priority weapons that are stored there so that those bases um are covered as well. And this includes domain awareness, um additional non-kinetic, um some uh some also directed energy in some places as well. Uh we have a lot more work to do because so far we've only covered down on a few of our bases and frankly we need to cover them all.

And very quickly, obviously the smaller the the the threat, the harder it is to see from space, but we focused on uh putting the data network in place at at scale around the globe, so we can rapidly move, once something is detected, rapidly move the data, the track to the decision maker where an effector can take advantage of it. Uh, so we try to play our part even if we can't detect it fully from space with that size.

And last point of clarification, how is the coordination between the Department of War and other government agencies that are tasked with dealing with this threat? Uh, where's, where's it working, where's it lacking?

We actually just, um, had a one-week conference and we actually brought the entire, you know, inter-agency together. So we had you know, multiple agencies together trying to solve this problem. So I feel like the coordination is really good.

Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

Chair recognized, gentleman from Wisconsin, Mister Van Orden.

Thank you, Mister Chairman. I p- Um, as a life, lifetime Navy man, Mister Secretary, I'm gonna just ask for for the love of all that is holy, do not give the Army nuclear weapons. Just, just don't. Thank you. Dear Lord. Um, hey, I'm very proud to represent the hundred and twenty-sixth combat weather flight and the hundred and twenty-eighth air control squadron at Volk Field. And uh the guys at Livorne and Madison fly their F- thirty-fives there. Um, it's a fantastic facility. Uh, can you tell me what percentage of our deployed forces at any given time are reservists and National Guards, Guardsmen and women?

I think I'm gonna have to call on a uh friend for that do you know that number off the top of your head blagaght

ok

I don't but um it's increasingly more

yeah

you know back when you were serving you know a much higher preponderance of the force was a active duty and as we've gone forward in time you know more and more our Guard and Reserve and and frankly Congressman you know we can't tell the difference between Guard and Reserve and active duty which is fantastic um and they um are allowing us to do missions all over the all over the world specifically in in

Well, We're great, great point. General, unfortunately oftentimes we can tell the difference between the two when it comes to the budget and when it comes to equipment. This is more so an issue with Rotary Ring in the army, but I just wanna make sure that our National Guardsmen and women and our reservists have the most up-to-date equipment to train so that when they do forward deploy, that they are mission capable immediately. And I, I, I really respect their service because they, they do something that we don't do. You know, they got a day job and then all of a sudden they gotta leave their home and it's, it's really, it can be very, uh, disconcerting for them. Um, I would in the future like to see your senior enlisted leaders with you. I notice that they're not here. Um, it would be good to have them around, just so we can, you know, Slapped hands and whatnot. Um, I wanna talk about the A ten. So, the F thirty five, you know, what is the unit cost for an F thirty five? Eighty to hundred and ten million dollars? Uh, what's the unit cost for an A ten? Adjusted for inflation, I know we haven't built them since the eighties.

Uh, it's, I, I, I'd have to go do the math, but it's considerably less than an F thirty five.

And what's the flat error cost for F thirty five? Up to forty thousand dollars?

It's It's probably not quite that high, but it could be.

Third.

Um, the A ten is certainly less.

And then Okay. And loiter time? For the F thirty-five?

It Um.

Depending on base thing?

Yeah, yeah, it it obviously, but um it's it's sho- it's shorter than the A ten.

Okay. So, having been on the ground as a United States Navy SEAL in combat, loiter time matters. The these oth- the we can work with the cost, you know, the the budget's there, but we have to we have to have the ability to have somebody sitting around with a GAU eight with twelve hundred rounds vice a GAU twenty-two alpha on a F thirty-five with two hundred rounds which which has had issues with um accuracy so we cannot have a gap I know that you're working towards that um and I I I'm no longer an operator it's obvious I'm you know fat as a house and got a white beard now but uh all of my friends are still And our children are at this point. So we cannot have a gap in close air support, a close air support platform that will be able to kill the enemy that is in that hallway, vice dropping something from an F- thirty-five. It, and I know you care about the men and women in the military, I know you do too, General. Um, so let's just make sure that does not happen. And for the sake of brevity, I will say congratulations on your retirement. Uh, this is not Turkey, so you probably won't be going to prison. And that's a great thing. So God bless you and the the folks that you watch off after.

Gentlemen, you look back.

Uh yield.

Uh, I wanna thank the uh panelists, uh, you did a great job and I will just tell you, uh, you got a lot of love today from this committee. That doesn't happen with all the services, so way to go. Uh, thank you, you've been very helpful. We're adjourned.