H.R. 7720, the "Child Care Payment Integrity and Fraud Accountability Act"

Uh, the committee will please come to order.

Thank you.

A quorum is present. Uh, committee meets today pursuant to notice to consider eight bills. The chair announces that requests for recorded votes may be postponed pursuant to clause two of rule nine or or or eleven of the rules of the House of Representatives, and committee rule fourteen B. Without objection, the chair may recess the committee at any point. Today, for the third time this Congress, the committee is turning again to a crucial topic and a bridge between everything this committee does, child care. Child care is essential to helping working parents thrive and our local economies grow. The Child Care and Development Block Grant, or CCBD uh DBG, is the federal program governing child care programs for low-income working families. This block grant program exists to have working families access affordable child care, giving them the freedom to remain in the workforce, increase their economic opportunity, realize financial freedom, and move beyond the need for a federal safety net. Thriving independently of government support, CCDBG is one solution to the multifaceted problem of child care affordability and access. CCDBG also meets the needs of American industry in light of a national workforce participation rate that is currently just sixty-two point five percent, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. At this com- as this committee has learned, the federal government cannot solve the growing need for child care in this country alone. In fact, CCDBG only serves approximately ten percent of children in the private sector child care market. That market, uh, that makes waste, uh, fraud, and abuse, like what has been found in Minnesota, even more untenable. Child care assistance for working families is rendered powerless when those dollars are not protected and widespread fraud threatens to erode public trust in the program. No amount of fraud in public programs is acceptable. That's why today the committee is taking action to deliver accountability and transparency in our federal child care assistance programs. Since two thousand and two, CCDBG has been identified as a program at risk of significant improper payments, with various agencies recognizing this vulnerability, including the Office of Management and Budget, the Government Accountability Office, and the U. S. Department of Health and Human Services. That warning has come home to roost in Minnesota. In a twenty twenty GAO report, the government watchdog estimated a gross improper payment amou- amount of three hundred and twenty-five million dollars for C C D B G in the previous fiscal year. Yet in those days, Congress appropriated C C D B G just over five billion dollars. The average national improper payment rate was four point five percent. Today, C C D B G is appropriated more than eight billion dollars with an average improper payment rate of nearly five percent. What's more, states led by uh Democrat administrations average an improper payment rate more than That's a starting disparity, demonstrating very different concerns about the proper stewardship of federal taxpayer dollars. When states administer federal programs, we expect a diligent effort to execute what the law requires. Americans should have confidence that their taxpayer dollars are funding critical child care assistance for families in need, rather than enriching those seeking to loot public programs for private, Today we consider eight pieces of legislation that will close loopholes, tighten requirements, and enhance the federal government's ability to detect and punish wrongdoers and fraudsters. Taking out waste, uh, fraud and abuse in federal child care assistance will ensure public trust in CCDBG and allow for more dollars, economic opportunity and workforce participation among America's families. That's what is possible. when federal child care assistance is responsibly administered and why we should not allow fraud or mismanagement to undermine solutions that working families urgently need. With that said, I yield to the ranking member for his opening statement.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, Mister Chairman, child care is a necessity for millions of American families and in many places, the cost of child care when families i- when families can even find it can be as much or even more than their rent or mortgage payments, and in many communities child care simply does not exist in sufficient supply. As a direct result, our economy loses an estimated one hundred and twenty-two billion dollars in earnings, productivity and revenue every year, and that's just not a personal fail- failure on the part of parents or providers, it's a policy failure. Knowing this reality and yet having to reconcile it with today's mark-up, it's tough pill to swallow. Today we will consider eight bills that will do nothing thing to meaningfully bring down the cost of child care increase the supply of child care or improve the working conditions for child care providers instead we'll consider legislation that will needlessly create uncertainty for providers and make it more difficult for states to administer our nation's largest child care assistance program I appreciate the importance of preventing fraud in government programs but there's been no evidence of widespread fraud in the child care program but if we're gonna do oversight it should it very least begin with bringing in the secretary of um the department of health and human services, secretary kennedy who is responsible for implementing child care programs. He has yet to appear before this committee despite numerous requests from this side that you mister chairman and s and to you mister chairman and to the secretary directly. Now in terms of what we will consider first we will consider hr seventy seven twenty uh seven seventy seven twenty, the Child Care Payment Integrity and Fraud Accountability Act. Under present law, HHS assesses state's compliance with regulatory govern- governing the child care and development block grant through a review and approval process, every three years. H. R. seventy-seven twenty-two would require states to submit additional paperwork to the secretary, including via unique accounting methods not used in any other reporting. All these additional reporting requirements may seem innocuous. This bill would force states to spend more than their allotted CZ CD DBG uh funds to administer it on administrative costs, leading um less money for child care. For these reasons, um I urge my colleagues to oppose that bill. H R seventy-seven twenty-two, the second bill we'll consider is uh called the Combating Regulatory Abuse, Closing Known Deficiencies, and Overseeing nationwide acronym acronym crackdown. Uh, I say again, states are already required to report error rates, but this bill would require states to effectively triple their reporting, punish states for failing to meet deliberately set high standards, and effectively give the secretary a carte blanche to require as many additional reports from the states as the secretary desires, further increasing administrative costs and opening up states to evasive and excessive oversight. For these reasons, I'll oppose that bill. Third bill we will consider is H R seventy-seven twenty-two, the Child Care Integrity Monitoring Act. It will require states to undergo comprehensive reviews of the C C C D D B G performance every three years and require states arbitrarily and require states which are arbitrarily designated as high risk to submit additional monitoring. Unfortunately, this bill is redundant and vague. Additionally, the bill does not define how states are designed uh designated as high risk, or the aforementioned additional monitoring uh by the secretary, what that might entail. And despite these new administrative responsibilities, the bill provides no additional funding for the increased monitoring oversight. The Office of Child Care has lost more than half its oversight team in the past year, and this bill would force both state and federal staff to do more with less. So I oppose this bill and urge my colleagues to do the same. It, H R seventy seven, twenty three is the fourth bill we'll consider, safeguarding taxpayer dollars and child care act. This bill will require the secretary to permanently debar providers from the program after a determination of fraud. But providers operate throughout state systems, not direct federal contracts, raising questions about how this federal debarment would function. The bill does not clarify whether a violation in one state would trigger a nationwide ban for a franchise program, or whether provider refers to an individual or the entire business. Rather than redefining uh refining oversight, it imposes a rigid mandate to bill further to borrowers providers than the child care the child and adult care food program after determination of fraud while additionally instituting reciprocal debarment between the CCDBG and the child and adult uh care food program. Under present law and additional in addition to a review of CCBG funds every three years the CCCACFP providers who commit serious violations can be barred for years and required to repay debts strong enforcement mechanisms are already in place we all agree that fraud must be addressed but automatic permanent demarment without any discretion. uh risk unintended consequences, particularly when there's no limit to the uh seriousness of the offense, especially as communities face child care shortages. And it's also critical that we have processes in place to ensure that providers are not wrongfully disbarred for inadvertent or unintentional administrative or human errors. So we need to oppose that bill too. H R seventy seven twenty four, no waivers for fraud act. The fifth bill we'll consider. um under current law, the CCDBG statute allows the secretary limited authority to exercise discretion in imposing sanctions on states. That flexibility exists for a reason. It allows the department to account for unique circumstances, correct technical errors, and insure that enforcement actions do not inadvertently disrupt services for children and families. This bill will eliminate that waiver of authority altogether, substituting regulatory rigidity for administrative judgment and removing a tool that both parties have relied on to implement the law responsibly. Combined with the previous bills, uh, it reflects a shift from a balanced oversight to inflexible federal mandates, eliminating all waiver authority, risk punishing states in ways that ultimately hurt hurt families. We should s- we should pursue smart accountability, strong enforcement paired with practical flexibility to keep the system working for children, So that bill needs to be opposed and uh too. H R seventy seven twenty five, the stop child care fraud act, um under present law, C C D B G plans must already report measures that take uh th th they uh sorry report measures that they take to prevent pro-fraud including how they monitor providers and protect federal funds this bill essentially codifies those requirements by directing states to more explicitly detail their anti-fraud controls and explain how they use data across state and local agencies to oversee child care providers. But unlike the previous bills, seventy-seven twenty-five strengthens oversight without imposing uh r- uh rigid penalties or stripping flexibility because it supports responsible accountability. I can support that bill and will urge a yes vote. Uh seventy-six seventy-seven, closing the papara fraud gap. Uh, was the seven. bill we'll consider requires the government accountability office to conduct a fraud prevention study to um a fraud prevention study in federal early childhood education, child care, and nutrition program services. Given that the intent of this bill appears to be examine fraud prevention and programs such as Head Start, child and adult care food programs, and child care development uh block grant, uh that bill should also be supported. Seventy-seven, twenty-six. and no funds for repeat child care violations act. As the final bill that we'll consider under present law of the state is found to repeatedly misuse funds leading to improper payments to child care providers, HHS secretary has the discretion to withhold child care dollars from the state. This bill would tie the hands of the secretary, forcing states to be disqualified from child care assistance for simple mistakes such as paperwork errors. As I previously stated, addressing fraud should be a uh matter but unfortunately uh my colleagues may suggest that this bill would would uh make small technical change in the secretary's duties. I cannot support thoughtlessly restricting access to a program that families depend on for reliable child care based on small inadvertent errors. Those uh reasons I oppose this bill. Mister Chairman, I fear today may be another missed opportunity. Parents are begging us to address the problem of finding a

I thank the gentleman. I thank the gentleman. Uh, without objection, uh, all other members who wish to insert written opening statements into the record may do so by submitting them to the committee clerk electronically by the Pursuant to House rules, a copy of the text to be marked up was made available to members and the public at least twenty-four hours in advance. The bills being marked up today shall be open to amendment at any point, and the uh chair will allow members to offer amendments in a manner not prohibited by House or committee rules. Without objection, members who have more than one amendment to the bills and wish to offer their amendments, en bloc, may do so. The committee will now proceed to consideration of Bill HR seventy-seven twenty, for amendment. The bill was circulated in advance and printed copies are available. The clerk shall designate the bill.

H R seven seven two zero, a bill to amend the Child Care and Development Block Grant Act of nineteen ninety to require states to account for fraudulent payments made under such act.

Without objection, the first reading of the bill is dispensed with. Without objection, the bill will be considered as read and open for amendment.

Mister Chairman, I have an amendment at the desk.

The clerk shall designate the amendment in the nature of a substitute.

Amendment in the nature of a substitute to H R seven seven two zero, offered by Mister Mesmer of Indiana, identifier H seven seven two zero underscore A N S.

Without objection, the amendment shall be considered original text for purposes of further The amendment and the nature of a substitute has already been distributed. I now recognize Mister Mesmer for five minutes to explain the amendment and the nature of a substitute.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, every year nearl- nearly two million families receive over eight billion dollars in federal and state child care subsidies. Child care assistance helps keep parents in the workforce, growing their own economic independence, and contributing to regional economic development. When administering the Child Care and Development Block Grant, we expect and require states to responsibly manager and admin- manage and amin- administer the funds allocated them allocated to them through federal taxpayer dollars. Under the current program requirements, state states must submit a report of any errors occurring in the administration of their CC DB D DBG grant funds to the U S Department of Health and Human Services. Errors, although we try to minimize them as much as possible, are unsurprising given the variable nature of child care needs. Generally, these errors are overpayments or underpayments made to child care providers, which are easily easily categorized in the current reporting mechanism. But the absence of fraudulent payments in these account requirements makes it easy for states to forgo accountability when taxpayer dollars are inadvertently distributed to a fraudulent provider. My b- my bill, the Child Care Payment Integrity and Fraud Accountability Act, would require states to more thoroughly thoroughly categorize the improper payments they already submit by including more categories, such as suspected fraud and verified fraud. This amendment, in nature of a substitute, makes a technical change to the bill. Without such accounting, it is hard to see the full picture of how taxpayer dollars are being managed. And without a state proactively and accurately assessing its program's financial health it can be difficult to understand where improvements are needed. Providing this clarity is just common,

Are there any members who wish to be recognized for further discussion on the amendment in the nature of a substitute?

Mister Chairman.

Does the uh gentlelady from North Carolina be who should be recognized?

Thank you, Mister Chairman, I move to strike the last word in opposition.

You you are recognized.

Thank you. Let let me start with something that should unite everyone on this committee. We all want strong When someone knowingly steals taxpayer dollars meant to help children and families, that conduct that conduct should be investigated and addressed. But our responsibility as lawmakers is to ensure that the policies we write actually improve oversight rather than simply adding new layers of administrative complexity. H R seventy-seven twenty attempts to strengthen oversight of the Child Care and Development Block Grant by requiring states to track and report additional categories of improper payments, including what the the bill calls suspected fraudulent payments and technically improper payments. The challenge is that that these categories do not currently exist in federal financial reporting systems used by states to administer CCDBG. States report improper payments using well-established federal standards. those standards already distinguished between fraud, administrative error, and other types of payment issues. By creating new statutory reporting categories that do not align with those systems, then this bill would likely require states to redesign their accounting and reporting processes. This is not a small change. State agencies responsible for administering child care assistance programs already operate with limited Their priority should be helping families access safe and reliable child care and ensuring providers are paid accurately and on time. So if states must divert staff and funding to build new financial tracking structures simply to comply with new federal reporting requirements we may actually reduce the resources available to support families and providers and we should be clear about the broader context with child care and development. and Block Grant is already one of the most carefully monitored programs administered by the Department of Health and Human Services. States conduct eligibility verification, provider monitoring, payment reconciliation, and regular reporting to the federal government. Improper payments can and do occur, often because of paperwork errors errors, changes in in family income, or administrative processing issues. Those challenges should be addressed through improved systems and technical assistance. But layering on reporting categories that are not clearly defined in statute or federal guidance may create confusion rather than clarity. Accountability matters. Transparency matters. But oversight policies should be practical and they should be aligned with the way programs are actually administered. For these reasons, Mister Chairman, I oppose this bill. I yield back.

I thank the gentlelady. This is gentlelady from Georgia and Miss McMath, seek to be recognized.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, I wish to speak in opposition to the amendment and the nature of its substitute.

You are recognized for five minutes.

Thank you. If Secretary Kennedy is so concerned about fraud in programs under this, his jurisdiction, he should appear before this committee. Apparently he has been invited many times. There are members here today who would love to hear from the secretary in person, on many things, but he has refused to abide by his basic responsibility to be here to answer our questions. Fraud is inexcusable. No matter how much the other side may claim here today, Democrats are committed to fighting fraud and holding criminals accountable. I know that firsthand as the ranking member of the House Subcommittee on Crime. I would even argue that our side may even take cases of fraud more personally because it is programs that we truly believe in that are often targeted, programs that are supposed to be for the public good and for those who have the least in this country. Fraud is inexcusable, especially when it targets public dollars meant to support working families. More must be done to keep money out of the hands of thieves and grifters who see federal programs as ways to enrich themselves instead of making life easier for law abiding people who are just trying to get by. Justice must be done to people who steal these dollars from working families. But most of all, the bills that we're considering here today will not bring justice to the victims or recover the money that was stolen. Instead, bills like this one and the next few that we'll be considering here today are meant to overburden burdened states and child care providers with more paperwork. So it becomes even more difficult for them to participate in the program. By adding bureaucrat- r- bureaucratic hoops, they try to strengthen their argument that these programs aren't worth funding. They will inevitably say that these reporting requirements are too difficult to comply with and their solution will be to just get rid of these programs altogether, or for states and providers to They know that they can't get rid of this program in the short term, so they play the long game. They underfund government agencies and overburdened states and grantees so that they can set them up for failure. They do that because it fits their narrative that government is slow and unresponsive, despite the fact that they themselves are the ones that are making it slower and less responsive to people's every That is the harsh truth behind these efforts today. It's not to root out fraud, which we should all be committed to doing. It's about using a crisis at a historically popular and effective program, so they can make a point about their vision of the government regardless of how many families lose child care or go hungry along the way. Not even a year ago, President Trump and House Republicans tried to

Thank you, General.

It

Are there any other members who wish to be recognized? The gentleman from Virginia, ranking member, Mr. Scott.

No.

Are there any other members who wish to be recognized? There being no further discussion, um, or members who wish to be recognized, we uh can now uh move to amendments. Are there any who wish to offer amendments? I recognize the gentleman from Virginia, the ranking member, Mr.

Mr. Chairman, I have an amendment at the desk, um, underscore O O four.

The clerk will, uh, report the amendment.

Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to H R seven seven two zero, offered by Mister Scott of Virginia, identifier Scott underscore H seven seven two zero AM underscore zero zero four.

Does the, uh, gentleman from, uh, Utah wish to reserve a report in order? Yes. Uh point of order is reserved. I now recognize the gentleman from Virginia, the ranking member, Mister Scott, for five minutes in support of his amendment.

Thank you, Mister Chairman. Mister Chairman, H R seventy seven twenty requires states to submit to the secretary information including the dollar and percentage amount of improper payments made by the state, disaggregated as specified by the secretary by standardized payment categories, including suspected and verified fraudulent payments, non-fraud, fraudulent overpayments, underpayments and technically improper payments, uh EG system error payments. Uh unfortunately these are actually not standardized payment categories. They're not consistent with accounting and compliance procedures used by other HHS programs, existing guidance or under the Payment Integrity Information Act of twenty nineteen. We've already discussed that states undergo significant recorder reporting requirements in order to federal child care funding, forcing states to create new, separate and different accounting systems to administer the Child Care and Development Block grant, is time-consuming, burdensome and unnecessary. This amendment conforms the requ- reporting requirements in the bill to current accounting categories, but adds the responsibility for the secretary to take the information in the reports and provide that information to Congress. If the purpose is to ensure accountability in oversight ensuring that the department is reviewing state reports and summarizing them for congress could help policy makers understand and address any issues or challenges facing the state's further and importantly the secretary of reporting uh secretary of reporting will also focus on the issues most important to millions of american families that is whether child care is accessible and affordable in their in the in their area i would hope we'd focus on that rather than making up new

I thank the gentleman. Does the gentleman from Utah insist on a point of order?

Does the gentleman like to withdraw an order, a point of order?

Res- reservation is withdrawn. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment? Seeing none, uh the question is on the amendment by the gentleman from Virginia. All in favor say aye.

Aye.

All opposed no. No. In the opinion of the chair, the no's have it and the amendment is not agreed to. Um, a roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed. Are there any further amendments uh to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to HR seventy seven twenty? Further action, uh, seeing no amendments, further action, uh, uh, uh, on on H R seventy seven twenty is postponed. We'll now move to consider the next bill. The committee will now proceed to consideration of bill H R seventy seven twenty one, for amendment. The bill was circulated in advance and it and printed copies are available. The clerk shall designate the bill.

H R seven seven two one, a bill to amend the child care and development block block Act of nineteen ninety to implement an improper payment threshold under such Act.

Uh without objection, the first reading of the bill is dispensed with. Without objection, the bill will be considered as read and open for amendment at any point. And any amendment offered shall be considered as read.

I'm just gonna suspend for a moment. Just so you're visible.

We will uh suspend for a moment. And then ret- return quickly.

Okay, thanks. You're welcome, guys.

I mute that talk right away. We'll return to uh consideration of HR seventy-seven twenty-one. Does anyone seek to be recognized, representative Grothman, for what purpose do you seek Recognition.

I have an amendment at the desk titled H seventy-seven twenty-one.

Uh, the clerk shall designate the amendment in the nature of a substitute.

Amendment in the nature of a substitute to HR seven seven two one, offered by Mister Goethman of Wisconsin, identifier H seven seven two one underscore ANS.

Without objection, the amendment shall be considered original text for purposes of further amendment. The amendment in the nature of a substitute has already been distributed. I know I'll recognize Mister Grothman for five minutes to explain the amendment in the nature of a substitute.

Uh, thank you, Mister Chairman. Uh, we've just been talking about improper payments in CCDBG. Mo- uh, most states operate above board, but when improper payments rates rise above reasonable levels, that indicates trouble. My state of Wisconsin knows a thing about this. In twenty ten, Wisconsin dealt with a situation. Similar to Minnesota's widespread fraud within the states, child care program. Uh, unlike Minnesota, we had a Governor, Governor Walker, who considered this a big problem. Thankfully, Wisconsin took responsibility and enacted reforms, expanding background checks, creating a new fraud unit, and instituting an audit system. CCDBG regulations already set an improper payments threshold, which triggers corrective action a corrective action plan to get a a state back on track. But with a national average improper The current practice of a ten percent threshold seems too high to address small problems before they spiral. That's why I'm introducing the combating regulatory abuse, closing d- known deficiencies, and overseeing Waste Nationwide Act or the Crackdown Act. This bill would set a clear five percent improper payments threshold for states to create accountability and keep in place the already existing corrective actions. plan tool. This amendment in nature of a substitute makes technical changes to changes to that bill. Currently, fourteen states have improper payment rates above the five percent threshold, because so many other states do better. It's kind of inexcusable. So this is a sensible metric with many state examples to learn from, including my home state of Wisconsin, which I am glad to say has an improper payment rate below one percent. With that, I urge my colleagues to adopt this common sense reform and expect the best use of taxpayer dollars. I yield back.

Are there any members who wish to be recognized for further discussion on the amendment in nature of a substitute? Ms. Kupath.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, last year, House Repuc- Republicans and Secretary Kennedy

I see. I'm sorry, I read it.

A program directly responsible for making child care slots available to working and middle class families who would not get them otherwise. Fifteen percent of kids in Head Start have a disability of some kind, meaning that caring for them is a little bit more expensive. Without Head Start, these families, they're going to lose that child care. If House Republicans and Secretary had their way, these kids, these kids will really have nowhere to go. That's what would have happened had families and Democrats not spoken out to the public to save Head Start. Now Republicans are trying to do the same thing to other federal child care programs. In my home state of Georgia, and I'm sure in many of yours as well, families wait years for those slots to open. You have to enter a lottery and hope that there's room for your child. And that's what happens to regular people. The people who don't have a few extra thousand dollars just line around to pay for care and it goes into a lottery system and that if they aren't picked, that's that's it for them. They've got no other options for their children. These families stay home from work. And they do it themselves. Or Now you wanna get rid of the few slots that families are fighting over. Make families wait even longer for child care because you want simply to make a political point. You know that's wrong. You know that is wrong. Wrong for so many reasons and wrong for families all across this country that are just looking for a little bit of room Prices rose again this quarter, and instead of helping people pay for child care, instead of using the people's money to pay for things that they really need, we're considering bills today that will only make child care more expensive and put it further out of reach for law abiding people who are doing everything right and they still can't get by. People who just want to provide a decent life for themselves and for their families. That's who gets punished with sloppy legislation like this. Legislation that punishes an entire state for the actions of a few criminals. Bills that punish innocent people for crimes that they had absolutely nothing to do with. I oppose the ANS And once again, I'm encouraging all of my colleagues to oppose it as well. And I yield.

Thank you. Thank you. Are there any oh.

Can I yield to Mr. Owens?

Oh. Y- yield to Mr. Owens.

I'd like to yield my time to Mr. Groffman, please.

Thank you. Uh, uh, a couple comments, and I I like the lady from Georgia. Um. Uh first of all, right now we're borrowing twenty-six percent of our budget. The idea that trying to save money is making a political point is absurd. Uh i- it's high time we dealt with that. The other thing is when you continue to allow fraud or cheating or improper payments to continue, you kind of degrade society. You know, society becomes more and more um, it's okay to break the rules, it's okay not to obey the rules.

Are there any or any other members who wish to be recognized for further discussion on the amendment and nature of substitute?

Miss Jim. Miss

Miss Adams is recognized for five minutes.

Uh, thank you. I I will strike the la last word in opposition to this bill. The Child Care and Development Block Grant exists to support working families by helping them afford safe reliable child care, so parents can go to work and children can learn and grow in in safe environments. And and let me be clear, everyone on this committee agrees that fraud should be taken seriously. And someone knowingly steals taxpayer dollars They should be held accountable. But we should also ground our policy discussion in reality. Fraud in child care and development block grant program is is extremely rare. What we are far more likely to see are administrative errors, eligibility changes or payment adjustments that occur in any large program administered across fifty states. Yet, HR seventy-seven twenty-one focuses almost entirely on imposing a new statutory five percent overpayment threshold that would trigger corrective action requirements for states. At first glance, that may sound like a simple accountability measure, but in practice it it risks creating unintended consequences for the families and the providers who rely on these programs. Improper payments do not always reflect wrongdoing. Families' work hours change and income fluctuates, documentation i- is updated after eligibility determinations are made, and sometimes administrative errors occur. If states face penalties tied to a rigid threshold - rigid threshold, they may respond by tightening eligibility processes or delaying payments in ways that make it harder for families to receive assistance. Now that means parents waiting longer for child care support, and providers awaiting longer to be paid. And while we're debating a bill focused on fraud prevention, we should remember the bigger challenge facing families today. The real crisis in child care i- is not widespread fraud, it is affordability and access. Only a fraction of eligible children currently receive assistance through C C D B G because the program has been underfunded. And that's why many of us have have worked to advance policies uh like the Child Care for Working Families Act, which which would expand access to child care, lower costs for families, and strengthen the child care workforce. Those are the kinds of investments that would make the greatest difference for working families across this country. So, yes, accountability, it does matter. oversight matters, but we should also ensure that our policies strengthen child care systems rather than create new barriers for the families and providers that these programs are meant to support. Thank you, Mister Chairman, and and I yield back.

Are there any other members who wish to be recognized for further discussion on the amendment and nature of the substitute?

No, we have not.

No. Okay.

Uh.

He does. Does.

No amendment.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay.

Yep, there we go.

Being there there being no further discussion on the amendment in nature of substitute, the committee will move to consideration of amendments. Are there any members who would any members who wish to offer amendments?

Mr. Chairman, Mr. Chairman, I have an amendment at the desk um O O seven. I have an amendment at the desk, um O O seven.

The clerk will report the amendment. Does the gentleman from Utah reserve a point of order?

Uh, Mr. Chairman, I reserve a point of order.

I now now recognize the gentleman from Virginia for five minutes in support of a of the amendment.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, before I begin, I'd just like to respond to the comment made by the gentleman from Wisconsin about the budget and remind everyone that that big ugly bill added three point five trillion dollars in new debt, and that every member on this side voted against adding three point five trillion dollars in new debt to the budget. Uh, Mr. Chairman, um, this bill would set an overpayment threshold the bill would thr- set an overpayment threshold beyond which states would be required to enter a corrective action plan with the secretary. Currently the Office of Child Care at HHS requires states to be subject to a corrective plan of improper payments both overpayments, underpayments and fraudulent exceed ten percent, which is consistent with requirements agencies are subject to under the Payment Integrity Information Act or PIA. That bill in that act it dictates requirements for federal agencies on estimating and reporting improper payments. H uh the bill this bill goes further than the existing process by removing states due process investing more power in the secretary to disqualify entire states from the program even if states making progress towards uh improper improper payments. Now to be clear the program integrity is vitally important and that's why there are already systems in place but this bill sets up states to fail and I have deep concerns that the bill will undermine this vital program which brings child care and and um and reach the for parents nearly and which brings child care into reach for parents of nearly two million children and support child care expense, supply of child care, and ensures parents are able to go to work. That's why this amendment is so important. Because the amendment um uh the amendment uh was really provoked by a self-described independent journalist publicly posting a vide- video uh documenting his visit to a daycare run a daycare center claiming the videos were proof that these centers were taking federal child care funds administered through the state without actually providing any care for children now despite the fact that Minnesota's child care agency found that the child care centers in question were actually operating and caring for for for for children and that the doors were closed to keep strangers out and that's why it looked to him like it was there was nobody there. Conservative media Republican officials brought national attention to the story, soon thereafter the Trump administration announced federal action, including immediate freezing of federal child care funds to Minnesota. Now HHS also engaged in what they called " defend the spend" system for all funds distributed through the administration of children fa- children and families at HHS. Now " defend the spend" requires grantees to provide detailed documentation and proof of payment, before receiving funds, increasing paperwork and delaying payment to providers across the country without any discernible impact on program integrity. Now this amendment would require the Department of Health and Human Services to provide clarity to this committee regarding the delays in payments to providers uh by way of the payment management systems. In addition, the request would demand information about delays and access prevented uh to uh C C D. The communities across the country and communities across the country, there are child care deserts that leave young parents without access to ne- to needed child care. Whether they enter the workforce or seek out workforce training or return to school, access to child care is not a game. The administration should provide transparency to this committee regarding otherwise unexplained delays in funding and decisions. So I'd urge my colleagues

Thank you. The time of the gentleman has expired. Does the gentleman insist on his point of order?

Mr. Chairman, I withdraw my point of order.

The reservation is withdrawn. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment?

No, I can.

The question is on the amendment by the gentleman from Virginia. All in favor say aye. All opposed no, no. In the opinion of the chair, that the

No. Um, of course, but

A roll call has been ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be s postponed. Are there any further amendments to the mi- i- i- to the amendment in nature of substitute on H R seventy seven, twenty one? I just thought I'd uh, yes, the lights are on. Further on further action on H R seventy seven, twenty one is pos postponed. We will now move to consider the next bill. Thank you. The committee will now pro- proceed to consideration of the bill H R seventy seven twenty two for amendment. The bill was circulated in advance and printed copies are available. The clerk shall designate the bill.

H R seven seven two two, a bill to amend the Child Care and Development Block Grant Act of nineteen ninety to recri- to require triennial comprehensive reviews of state performance under such act.

Without objection, the first reading of the bill is dispensed with. Without objection, the bill will be considered as read and open for amendment.

Mister Chairman.

Representative Onder, for what purpose do you seek recognition?

Mister Chairman, I have an amendment at the desk titled H seven seven two two underscore A and S.

The clerk shall designate the amendment in nature of substitute.

Amendment in the nature of a substitute to H R seven seven two two, offered by Mister Onder of Missouri, identifier H seven seven two two underscore A and S.

Without objection. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Oversight and responsible use of taxpayer dollars should not depend on informal fraud monitoring, especially when those dollars are being used to help parents participate in the workforce. But since two thousand and two, the Government Accountability Office has identified child care and Block Grant program as highly vulnerable to improper payments. Since two thousand and seven, HHS has voluntarily conducted audits of state expenditures through the program on a three year cycle. But after what we've seen in Minnesota, these pliable requirements are clearly not enough to maintain the integrity of the program, given its significant risk for fraud and abuse. That is why I introduced H. R. seventy-seven twenty-two, the Child Care Integrity Month. monitoring act which would codify the three-year audit cycle, direct the secretary to designate high-risk states, and allow additional monitoring to help protect this program and promote better stewardship of our constituents' tax dollars. The private child care market is already a fragile ecosystem. Let's let's let's not further burden the system by allowing waste fraud and abuse to go uncorrected. This amendment in the nature of a substitute makes a technical change

Are there any members who wish to be recognized for further discussion on the amendment in nature of a substitute?

Mr. Chairman.

Miss Adams is recognized for five minutes.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, let me strike the last word in opposition to this bill. Um, across the country, parents are struggling to find affordable child care. Providers are closing classrooms because they cannot hire or retain staff. And states are already working to administer a complex program with limited administrative resources. That is the reality on the ground. But instead of focusing on expanding access to child care or strengthening the workforce that makes these programs possible, this bill focuses on creating a new federal designation for states labeled as " high risk". The challenge is that that the bill does not clearly define what that standard actually means. States could be labeled high risk based on broad or unclear criteria, even when they are actively working to resolve issues and serve families. That kind of vague design designation risks creating uncertainty for state agencies and it and providers without actually improving how the program operates. And we should remember that oversight alone does not solve the underlying challenges facing the child care system. Families need more available child care slots, providers need stable funding, and a workforce that they can retain. And states need clear guidance and sufficient resources to administer these programs effectively. Adding new compliance labels wi- wi- without addressing those realities will not make child care system a more efficient and a more efficient system.

Are there any other members who wish to be recognized for the discussion on the amendment in nature of a substitute?

This is gone.

I'm not getting it.

The J- Mr.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, I move to second to last word. Met Republican colleagues have last shown to the Trump administration's rhetoric around the word fraud, using it to target social services and health programs. Various House and Senate committees have held oversight committees on this issue. Committee majorities also requested various documents related to fraud and child care programs and has previously subpoenaed documents related to fraud and nutrition programs. It's vitally important to hold those committing fraud and government programs accountable and to build systems that prevent fraud in the first place. But it's not beneficial to upend federal programs that are proven to be effective in serving low income children and families. Now, it is a b height of hypocrisy to see the Trump administration's um uh first action when he returned to office was to fire twelve independent inspectors general. That's an non-po- political role desi- designated to root out waste, fraud, and abuse in federal programs. That H R seventy-seven twenty-two require that after a comprehensive review, states with a quote " high level of unresolved or repeated adverse audit findings", a " high level of unresolved issues under corrective action plans" or " unresolved or repeated findings of non-compliance with state plans" would be designated as " high risk". It does not not define what a high level of these indicators would be or whether or not they would be used to relative measures or thresholds. In addition, states designated as high risk shall be quote " shall be subject to additional monitoring as determined by the secretary", according to the bill, but doesn't doesn't specify what that monitoring may entail. What could the secretary demand? Could the secretary demand uh for example, the voter roles and we found that the the in in one situation uh with ice the um one official said well if you give us our voter roles we'll move ice out of the state can that be um part of this bill fraud in any federal program is always unacceptable but there's no evidence that there's any widespread fraud in the c c d d f program this bill invests more power in the secretary of h h s without providing additional funding or oversight of technology

Thank you. Are there any other members who wish to be recognized for further discussion on the amendment in nature of a substitute? There being no further discussion on the amendment in nature of a substitute, the committee will now move to consideration of amendments. Are there any members who wish to offer amendments?

Mr. Chairman.

For what purposes does a gentleman from California seek seek to be recognized?

Uh, Mr. Chairman, I have a man uh at the desk. Mm-hmm.

The clerk will report the amendment.

Amendment to the amendment and then HREA substitute to HR seven seven two two, offered by Mr. Desaigne of California, identifier Desaigne underscore H seven seven two two AM underscore zero zero four.

Does the gentleman from Utah reserve a point of order?

Mr. Chairman, I'd like to present.

I now recognize the gentleman, oh a point of order is re reserved. I now recognize a gentleman from California for five for five minutes in support of the amendment.

My amendment would require the Secretary of Health and Human Services to testify before this committee on the department's defend the spend policy, personal actions that have cut staffing levels in the HHS office of child care and any actions the department is taking in regard to allege fraudulent use of child care funds. It is customary for the secretary to appear before this committee and answer questions about the department's policies and priorities. In fact, since two thousand eleven, the secretary of HHS has appeared before the committee ten times. However, this committee has not yet had the opportunity to hear from Secretary Kennedy, since he assumed his position more than a year ago. As a result, this committee has gone without a central information and an opportunity to engage directly with the secretary about the department's work, including the actions that may severely harm access to child care for Americans. The recent freeze of federal child care and family assistance funds to five states including California, along with terminations at the HHS office of child care are major departures from past department policy. The office of child care's work is critical to the Department of Health and Human Services' goal of helping working families afford quality child care. This committee has a duty to conduct oversight and must hear from the secretary directly, in public, about his justification for these actions and how he is working to protect access to child care for working ra- families rather than rely on it. Given the department's important responsibilities in recent departures from past policy, I urge my colleagues to support this amendment and I yield back.

The time of the gentleman has expired. Does the gentleman from Utah insist on the point of order?

I withdraw my point of order.

The reservation was is withdrawn. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment?

Mister Chairman. Has the amend- uh has the amendment been distributed?

So Yes.

Yes.

Uh, could I get a copy of of the amendment?

Certainly.

Please just pause for a second.

Uh-huh. Oh, okay. Okay.

Screen. How do I have my stuff? Sorry.

Let's uh let's we we can just continue, so just see if anyone else wants to talk on the amendment.

No. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment?

Don't know what.

Okay, then.

Is that Just make sure. I don't think so.

We'll pause for a moment for the

Okay. I think we can continue.

Okay.

It's fine, you just have time.

Uh, just uh, Mr. Chairman.

Uh, for what purpose does a gentleman from Missouri seek recognition?

Uh, to speak against the amendment.

The gentleman has five minutes, is recognized for five minutes.

Uh, thank you, Mister Chairman. Um, I I agree with my colleague that I I would very much like to see um the Secretary of HHS um testify before this uh committee but I don't think uh I I don't uh don't think we ought to be uh codifying uh micro-management of the secretary's uh schedule, um and therefore I oppose this amendment.

Okay. Does anyone The question is on the amendment by the gentleman from California. All in favor say aye.

Aye. Aye.

All opposed no. No. In the opinion of the chair, the no's have it, and the amendment is not agreed to.

Mr. Chairman, I would request a a roll call, please.

A roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this roll will be p- will this vote will be be postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment in nature of a substitute to H R twenty seventy-seven twenty-two? Further action on H R seventy-seven twenty-two is postponed. We will now move to consider the next bill. The chairman will now proceed to consideration of the bill H R seventy-seven twenty-three for amendment. The bill was circulated in advance and printed copies are available. The clerk shall designate the bill.

H R seven seven two three. A bill to amend the Child Care and Development Block Grant Act of nineteen ninety to debar child care providers that committed fraud from receiving financial assistance under the act and for other purposes.

Without objection, the first reading of the bill is dispensed with. Without objection, the bill would con will be considered as read and open for amendment at any point. Any an- any amendment offered shall be considered as read. Does anyone seek to be recognized?

I do, Mister Chairman.

Chairwoman Meredith Fox, for what purpose do you seek recognition?

Um, I I have an amendment at the desk.

The clerk shall designate the amendment in nature of a substitute.

Amendment in the nature of a substitute to H R seven seven two three, offered by Miss Fox of North Carolina, identifier provider underscore A NS underscore zero one.

Without objection, the amendment shall be considered original text for the purpose of further amendment. The amendment in nature of a substitute has already been distributed. I now recognize Miss Fox for five minutes to explain the amendment and nature of the substitute.

Thank you, Mister Chairman. Mister Chairman, along with others, I was frustrated to hear of the C C D B G fraud in Minnesota uncovered earlier this year, which is another example of unchecked waste, fraud and abuse of federal taxpayer dollars. I was frustrated but not surprised. That's because last Congress, this committee, The committee investigated Minnesota's fraudulent use of taxpayers in another assistance program the Child and Adult Care Food Program CACFP when it allowed feeding our future to take two hundred and fifty million dollars of federal taxpayer dollars out of the mouths of hungry children. It was true then and it's true now. The feeding our future scam was only the tip of the iceberg in Minnesota. Because of the connected nature of the two assistance programs, caring for children and feeding them, fraudulent providers can bounce easily between the CCDBG and CACFP programs. That's wrong and allows fraud to continue endlessly. That's why I've introduced HRC seventy-seven twenty-three, the safeguarding taxpayer dollars in Child Care Act, which would disbar reciprocally fraudulent providers from these two programs. This amendment, in the nature of a substitute, makes technical, only technical changes to the bill. If a provider cheats one federal program, they shouldn't be allowed simply to move to another. My bill closes that loophole and protects both food and child care assistance programs from repeated fraudsters. Fraud is serious. The consequences must be also. With H R seventy-seven twenty-three, I remain committed to safeguarding taxpayer dollars at the federal level and holding swindlers to task. As I've often joked

Are there any other members who wish to be recognized for further discussion on the amendment in the nature of a substitute? Gentlelady from Georgia, Miss McPath, you wish to be recognized.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, I wish to

You are recognized for five minutes.

Thank you. There's absolutely no reason that we should be empowering a secretary who refuses to abide by their incredibly basic responsibility to appear before this committee. I want to reiterate that these bills are not about cracking down on fraud. This bill in particular is about giving the Trump administration more power to punish their political enemies and shutter programs that they can't shut down Instead of following the law, allowing the process to play out, this bill gives the sec- secretary personal discretion to investigate and punish fraud. It allows the secretary to be the judge, the jury, and executioner when it comes to deciding who gets federal dollars, a process that should be non-political. This administration stops at nothing to punish people who disagree with them, and is perfectly comfortable steering public dollars dollars away from programs that are proven to work towards their political allies. This administration has not hesitated to not only kill people for speaking out and protesting against this government, but slandered their memory after they are gone. They have and will tell lies about you and your family to the entire country, to justify the unjustifiable, to avoid taking the blame for entirely avoidable mistakes, mistakes When my son Jordan was killed, the very same man who pulled the trigger tried to justify it by lying about who my son really was. He said there was a gun in the car when there wasn't, that Jordan was a thug and he wasn't, that he and his friends were doing things that they really weren't doing. I thank God every single day that those lies never caught on. But I remember how insulting it was. I remember I remember thinking, you took my child from me and now you're going to lie about who he really was to try and get away with it. It really makes you understand the depths that people are willing to sink in order to avoid being held accountable for their actions. This bill makes it easier for secretaries under this administration to make unilateral decisions at a time when Americans want accountability. They're demanding it from us.

I thank the gentlelady. There's a gentleman from Virginia, ranking member of Scott, who should be rec- recognized.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I use the last uh move to strike the last word.

You're recognized for five minutes.

Mr. Chairman, H R seventy-seven twenty-three the secretary of health and human services to permanently debar health care providers receiving federal assistance under the c c d b g that are found to have committed fraud while the secretary already has it's while the secretary is already currently required to review and monitor state compliance this bill would require the secretary to investigate fraud and that's a responsibility usually done by law enforcement including inspectors general who as as I've previously mentioned have been fired. Based off the text of the bill, it's unclear how this new authority for the secretary would impact law enforcement's ability to conduct fraud investigations and whether this language actually impedes state due process. In addition, the bill tests the secretary with debarring providers as a remedy to fraud. This would be quite odd, given that the child care providers generally only interact with their state to get child care funds. Um, the state, federal government is o- is not handing providers any funds at all, the states do. In addition, this bill is unclear whether the provider in one state would be debarred only in the state where the violation occurred or whether it be prohibited from participating in any state program. This such confusion would have significant effect on private day care providers that operate in multiple states. It is further unclear what is meant by provider in the context of the bill. This provider could reference an individual employee or an entire multi-state business. So if the so is the individual teacher caught stealing funds debarred, or is the entire multi-state franchise operation debarred? Lastly, the bill creates reciprocal debarment between the CCDBG and the child and adult care program child and adult care program, a food program, automatically debarring providers from both programs if debarred Notably, the current statute and federal regulations already include a process in place to identify broad and remove institutions or family or group day care homes that are non-compliant with federal regulations from CACFP. And in that program ser- program serious deficiency process, institutions or family or day uh group day care programs are disqualified for non-compliance with federal regulations, and they're placed on a national A USDA maintained list of institutions, responsible principals and individuals disqualified from participation in federal nutrition programs. This is vastly different from the CCDBG program, which relies on the state's lead agencies to operate their programs, although you must meet certain rules and regulations overseen by HHS. Institutions or family institutions or family or group daycare homes on the NDL lists or uh or the serious deficiency lists are required to maintain on the lists for seven years until outstanding debts are repaid unless it is determined that the serious efficiencies have been corrected institutions or family or group daycare homes can be removed from the list early if outstanding debt is repaid and a request is submitted to the state agency with documentation of corrective action taken in turn permanent demar could be a substantial departure and there are important unanswered questions about how in entities could appeal the secretary's decision. Fraud in any federal grant program is always unacceptable, but there's no evidence that there's any widespread fraud in the child care sector. Now this bill vests more power in the secretary of health and human services' exercise discretion without providing any additional funding for oversight or technical assistance. I urge my colleagues to vote

Gentlemen yields, are there any other members who wish to be recognized for further discussion on the amendment in nature of a substitute? There being no further discussion on the amendment in the nature of substitute, the committee will move to consideration of amendments. Are there any members who wish who would like to offer amendments? Gentleman from Uh, Virginia, the ranking member, do you wish to offer an amendment?

Uh, I have an amendment at his desk, uh, underscore O O two.

The clerk will report the amendment.

Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to H R seven seven two three, offered by Mister Scott of Virginia, identifier Scott underscore H seven seven two three AM underscore zero zero two.

Does the gentleman from Utah reserve point of order?

Miss German, I'd like to reserve a point of order.

Point of order is reserved, and I'll recognize the gentleman from Virginia for five minutes in support of his amendment.

Thank you, Miss, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, HR seven seven t twenty three requires the Secretary of Health and Human Services to permanently debar child care providers receiving federal financial assistance under CD CC DBG that are found to have committed fraud. While the secretary is already currently required to review and monitor state compliance, this bill would require the secretary to investigate fraud, a responsibility usually done by law enforcement inspector generals and the states. My p Republican colleagues have latched onto the Trump administration's rhetoric around fraud using it to target social service and health programs, including child care assistance, despite no evidence of any widespread s- fraud in any of those systems. Current statute and federal regulations already include processes to place in place to identify fraud and remove institutions or family or group day care homes that are non-compliant with federal regulations and processes already exist, with c c d b g program to report fraud collaborate with law enforcement and incentivize states to lower improper payment rates what is frustrating is that the republicans acknowledge the importance of uh comprehensive proactive oversight but they have not acknowledged that the current administration's actions which include firing more than half the oversight staff at the office of child care last year will make it actually more difficult to root out fraud in the future. Fraud any federal program is always unacceptable but there's no again no evidence that there's any more in this sector than any other so this amendment will restore the structure functions staffing and responsibilities of the office of child care because both comprehensive oversight and support for these programs are important and american families are counting on us to ensure that the c d c c d b g continues to be a success and so the amendment puts the staff in place to actually do the work uh the people that have been fired and if we want fraud to be detected we have to have somebody to actually detect it. I hope we'd adopt the amendment and I yield back.

I thank the gentleman. Does the gentleman from Utah wish to reserve his point of order?

I reserve, I withdraw my point of order.

A point of order is with uh the reservation is with withdrawn. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment?

Doctor, I'm sorry. Mr. Chairman.

Gentlelady from North Carolina, Miss Fox, do you wish to be recognized?

Mr. Chairman, I I'm really astonished to hear our colleagues play down this issue of fraud in these uh programs funded by federal taxpayers. Uh, you know my position would be we don't we should not be doing this at all from the federal government level. I don't read in the Constitution. anywhere that it says federal government should be running child care programs, or funding child care programs. And um while I don't know exactly the number of employees in health and human services that need to be there to fund these programs, I think the main point of this um of my bill is to bring substantial penalties to these programs. So we will discourage even attempting fraud at the state level. Again, number one, we shouldn't be funding the programs. Number two, if there is fraud, let's show people that the punishment will fit the crime and that we defund them. I don't think putting more people in the office at the secretary's level or are in the division is going to to do anything to help our case. We need to just show people there's a penalty for committing fraud and and debar these programs, disbar the programs from being in existence. So I oppose the addition of employees. I just don't think that's the the angle that we need to be taking. And I yield back.

I thank the gentlelady. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment?

Yep.

Seeing none, the question is on the amendment by the gentleman from Virginia. All in favor say aye.

Aye.

All opposed no. No.

No.

In the opinion of the chair, the no's have it and the amendment is not agreed to. A uh uh a r- a roll call vote is ordered pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment in nature of a substitute to HR seventy-seven twenty-three? There being no further amendments, uh the question now occurs on the amendment in the nature of a substitute to HR seventy-seven twenty-three.

The question.

Uh further action on H R seventy seven twenty three is postponed. We'll now move to consider the next bill. Given that we will now proceed to consideration of of Bill H R seventy seven twenty four for amendment the bill was circulated in advance and printed copies are available the clerk shall designate the bill.

H R seven seven two four, a bill to amend the Child Care and Development Block Grant Act of nineteen ninety, to sustain to sustain

Without objection, the first reading of the bill is dispensed with. Without objection, the bill will be considered as read and open for amendment at any point, and any amendment offered shall be considered as read. Does anyone seek to be recognized? Representative Wilson, for what purpose do you seek to be recognized?

Mister Chairman, I have an amendment at the desk, H seven seven two four dash A and S, no waivers for fraud act.

Uh, the clerk shall designate the amendment in the

Amendment in the nature of a substitute to HR seven seven two four, offered by Mister Wilson of South Carolina, identifier H seven seven two four underscore A N S.

Without objection, the amendment shall be considered original text for purposes of further amendment. The amendment in the nature of a substitute has already been distributed. I now recognize Mister Wilson for five minutes to explain the amendment in the nature of a substitute.

Thank you, Mister Chairman. I agree very much with Chairwoman Doctor Vandenberg. what she has expressed, that waste, fraud and abuse of taxpayers' dollars must be held to account. A is for accountability. Additionally, we should understand as they divert money uh for fraud, it takes away services to the people who need it. Uh and so it's just inconceivable that we would make every effort to stop fraud so that we can have legitimate programs succeed. There must be consequences. Sanctions for such actions exist for a reason, and they already exist. in the Child Care and Development Block Grant Program. The secretary may impose sanctions against the state for fraud or c- non-compliance. That's only right. But CCDBG rules also allow these sanctions to be waived if a state requi- submits a request. That's wrong. Therefore, I have introduced H. R. seven seven two four, the No Wavers for Fraud Act, which would strike the secretary's ability to waive sanctions imposed It's appropriate to eliminate this waiver of authority because sanctions are only put in place for a formal review when something goes wrong. States like Minnesota should fix the problem, but not ask for a free pass. Can you imagine? And this amendment is the nature of a substitute, makes a technical change to the bill. I wholeheartedly believe in dismantling the sanction invasion at the international level, and the same should be held true for the state seeking to evade responsibility for waste, fraud, and abuse of federal taxpayer dollars at the local level. And indeed, w- the Republicans and uh we want our Democrat friends to join us. We are the ones compassionate. We wanna have programs that work, not have programs that the funds are diverted to uh greedy uh persons who take advantage of the program. With that, I urge passage of the No Waiver for Fraud Act. Fraud and noncompliance deserve r- recompense. I yield

Thank you, gentlemen. Are there any members who wish to be recognized for further discussion on the amendment in nature of a substitute? Um, the gentleman from Virginia, Mr. Scott, would you wish to be recognized?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I move to second last word.

You are recognized for five minutes.

Thank you. Mr. Chairman, fraud in child care should be taken seriously, not politicized. During the course of this mark-up, Republicans have proposed bills that overall have the potential to cause states to spend more of their child care on administrative expenses and punish states and child care providers for administrative and human errors and reduce the supply of child care available to families the real crisis in child care is the fact that there's that it has been underfunded for decades leading to an inadequate supply of programs, high cost to families and low wages for providers who are disproportionately women of color. According to the most recently available data from the HHS assistant Secretary for Planning and Evaluation, only fifteen percent of federally eligible children are currently receiving subsidies under CCDF. Furthermore, this is this inadequate supply and funding to serve all furthermore, there is inadequate supply and funding to serve all children in need of care. This bill changes the provision under the current CCDBG statute that allows for state relief from enforcement actions. The change would remove the ability of the secretary waive sanctions being imposed on states, removing discretion from the secretary and requiring the imposition of sanctions in certain ins instances, taking away flexibilities that HHS currently has to work with uh states to improve the program ties to secretary's hands eliminating the ability to proactively engage with states when they are making meaningful progress towards improving uh the integrity of their programs. And so this program risks requiring states to be excessively

I thank the gentlemen.

Thank you.

Are there any other members who wish to be recognized for further discussion on the amendment in the nature of a substitute? There being no further discussion on the amendment in the nature of a substitute the committee will move to consideration of amendments. Are there any members who wish uh to offer amendments? I recognize the gentleman from Virginia, the ranking member, Mister Scott, for amendment.

Mister Chairman, I have an amendment at the desk. Um, O O w- underscore O O one.

Uh, the clerk will report the amendment.

Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to H R seven seven two four, offered by Mister Scott of Virginia, identifier Scott underscore H seven seven two four AM underscore zero zero one.

Does the gentleman from Utah have a reserve or point of order? A point of order is reserved. I now recognize a gentleman from Virginia, the ranking member, Mister Scott, uh for five minutes in support of his amendment.

Thank you, Mister Chairman. Mister Chairman, HR seven seven two four would reduce the secretary's discretion to provide relief for states in the event that a state is found to be non-compliant with the state plan or with CCDBG's statute of regulations. The bill makes it more likely that families and states, even those making improvements and changes, could be abruptly cut off from child care Fundamentally, the challenge of child care is of supply, the supply of affordable, accessible uh care for parents. This uh amendment would, instead of creating uncertainty for child care providers and increasing prices for parents make significant investments in improving the supply of child care in this country. The grants created by this amendment could be used to increase provider wages, cover operational expenses, improve care quality, helping providers,

I thank the gentleman. Does the gentleman from Utah reserve his point of order?

I insist on the point of order, Mr. Chairman.

The gentleman will state the point of order.

Um, the point of order

Does any member wish to be heard on the point of order?

Uh

of germanness, uh the gentleman from Virginia, the ranking member?

Well, Mister Chairman, the um um underlying bill cuts um supply. This amendment will make investments and make child care more affordable and more accessible. I don't see how that can possibly be non-germane to a discussion Are you back?

I'm prepared to rule on the point of order, and will find that the amendment is not germane to the legislation before us. Does the gentleman wish to withdraw the amendment?

Rather than make you

Yep.

Mr. Chairman, I I I do recognize I was on the edge of germaneness, and so I withdraw the amendment.

I've always appreciated about the ranking member. Uh, the uh amendment is withdrawn.

Hmm. Hmm.

Let's see, does anyone have amendments?

Does anyone else seek to offer amendments to the amendment in the nature of a substitute?

That's great. That's that's great. It's good.

There being no further amendments, the question now occurs on the amendment in the nature of a substitute to HR seventy seven twenty four. All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed, no.

No.

In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it, and the amendment in the nature of a substitute is agreed to.

Continue.

There being no further amendments and further action on HR seventy seven twenty four being postponed, We will now move to consider the next bill. The committee will now proceed to consideration of of Bill HR seventy-seven, twenty-five for amendment. The bill was circulated in advance and printed copies are available. The clerk shall designate the bill.

H R seven seven two five, H R seven seven two five. a bill to amend the Child Care and Development Block Grant Act of A bill to amend the Child Care and Development Block Grant Act of nineteen ninety to require States disclose agency regulatory participation ninety-ninety to require States disclose agency regulatory participation

Without objection, the first reading of the bill is dispensed with. Without objection, the bill will be considered as read, an open four amendment at any point, and any amendment offered shall be considered as read. Does anyone seek to be recognized? Representative Rooley, for what purpose do you seek recognition?

Chairman, I have an amendment at the desk titled H seven seven two five underscore ANS.

Uh, the clerk shall designate the amendment in the nature of a substitute. Without objection, the amendment shall be considered original text for purposes of further amendment. The amendment in the nature of a substitute has already been distributed. I now recognize Mister Rooley for five minutes to explain the amendment in the nature of a substitute.

Thank you, Mister Chairman. I'm proud to have this committee consider my bill, H R seven seven two five, the stop child care fraud act,

Okay.

Well, I guess we're still here.

Yeah.

Of the of the

Child care programs exist to support working families,

Yes.

not line the pockets of fraudsters. With this, I urge all my colleagues, especially on the other sides of the aisle, to support this bill and strengthen it strengthen integrity and safeguard taxpayer dollars. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield my time back.

I thank the gentlemen. Are there any other members who wish to be recognized for further discussion on the amendments and the nature of a substitute? Uh, rank your member, Mister Scott, to be would you wish to be recognized?

Thank you, Mister Chairman. I move to cycle last word.

You're recognized for five minutes.

Mister Chairman, this bill requires state plans under the Child Care and Development Block grant to include a description of the state's internal controls, processes and procedures to prevent fraud. Now, I understand that the majority of the information is already required to be included in the state plans, and so the this uh the plan would also We also need to include a description of how the state quote " utilizes data within and across other state and local agencies that have oversight of child care providers that serve children" under CCDBG. Currently, state plans are organized in the following sections. CCDF program administration, uh, child and family eligibility enrollment and continuing of care, child care affordability, parental choice, equal access, payment rates, payment prices, health and safety of child care settings, support of a skilled, qualified and comp- uh compensated child care workforce, quality improvement of acts- activities, uh lead agency coordination and partnership to support service delivery, family outreach and consumer education, and program integrity and accountability. These plans are then reviewed by the Office of Child Care for completeness, responsiveness, clarity and consistency. The Office of Child Care then uses these plans to of each child care's each state's child care program. Now I wanna raise once again that over the course of the past year, President Trump has fired more than half of the office of child care's oversight staff as well as significant portions of its grant management staff and regional staff um office staff along with the inspectors general. So the question is g- who's gonna do the oversight? But nevertheless, colleagues to vote yes on the bill and yes on the amend on on the amendment nature of substitute, and hope we'll be able to work with our colleagues across the aisle to restore the capacity of the Office of Child Care to ensure that the program integrity is maintained and states are not unnecessarily delayed in their receipt of funding. With that, Mr. Chairman, uh you're back.

I thank the gentlemen. Uh are there any members who wish to be recognized for further discussion on the amendments and the nature of substitute? There being no further discussion on the amendment and nature of a substitute, the committee will move to consideration of amendments. Are there any members who would like to offer amendments?

Um, We can just suspend the meeting, Mister Chairman, we can get a brief suspension. We can just um

Uh, we'll briefly suspend.

Thank you. You have to plan away. We can leave. We can leave it in the p a next for purposes. Or we can leave it.

Do you have a light? Yeah, exactly. Thanks. Yeah, I don't know how long this is gonna take, it's almost been ten minutes. Well, it's just it's just it's just like seven minutes to the side, it's like it's like twenty minutes. Um, it's just like twenty minutes to the side. I just wanna stick my finger in the drawer. Is she holding a amendment? Yes. Hmm. Will we re resume our uh discussion on HR seventy-seven twenty-five? Are there any members who wish to continue discussion on

I'm offered. Not offered.

Okay. Seeing none, are there any members who would like to offer amendments? Uh Representative Lee, the General Lady from Pennsylvania?

Uh, yes, Mr. Chairman, I have an amendment at the desk.

The clerk will designate the amendment.

Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to H R seven seven two five, offered by Miss Lee of Pennsylvania, identifier Lee underscore H seven seven two five AM underscore zero zero five.

Does the gentleman from Utah uh reserve a point of order?

Uh, a reserve a point of order, Miss Chairman.

Point of order is reserved. I now recognize the gentlelady from Pennsylvania, Miss Lee, uh for five minutes.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Republicans are having us mark up eight bills today because of a random, self-proclaimed fraught vigilante's YouTube video that's full of disinformation and xenophobic clickbait. Yet our constituents have repeatedly begged us for affordable, accessible, high-quality child care. Um, it is not enough to get a single bill marked up in this committee. We are in a child care crisis. And the best Republicans can do is introduce a destructive solution in search of a problem. There is no evidence of widespread child care fraud. And what's worse, most of the bills we're marking up today to address fraud that isn't even happening, will make the child care crisis worse. Child Care Works, my state's subsidy program, is a lifeline for families. But nearly seventy percent of the kids in my district who are eligible don't receive subsidized child care in part because There simply aren't enough child care slots and there isn't enough funding. And now Republicans are trying to divert the limited funding there is to pay for redundant, burdensome, and unnecessary requirements. When what we really need are actual solutions to the child care crisis. H R seventy-seven twenty-five codifies requirements that states already comply with. So while it's not actively harmful, like most of the other bills we're marking up today, it doesn't really do anything new to support My amendment would actually help families access the child care they need. It would ensure that they don't spend more than seven percent of their income on child care co-pays and families earning below eighty-five percent of the state median income would get child care for free. In addition to passing my amendment today, we should be marking up the full Child Care for Working Families Act, which would make child care more affordable, pay f- uh early child care educators a living wage, and increase the number of We should also mark up the head start for American's Children's, America's Children Act to expand head start to eleven million children. And ultimately we need universal child care um and preschool like so many other wealthy countries who actually care about and are willing to invest in their youngest constituents and residents and families. And let's be clear, if preventing potential fraud was an actual priority for this administration, they wouldn't have hired twelve inspectors generals, uh the job literally created to prevent fraud in federal programs. And they wouldn't have fired half of the Office of Child Care and Office of Head Start staff, the people who ensure that child care programs operate with integrity. And how often do we sit in these hearings and ask our Republican colleagues to do something about corporations committing fraud against workers? How often do we ask them to do something about wage theft, private equity, uh and authoritarian But conservatives only bring up fraud when they wanna refocus the national narrative on their xenophobic crusade against immigrants, instead of talking about rising costs or health care uh cuts or state-sanctioned murders, the Epstein fouls, war. But we won't be distracted because Americans deserve better. My amendment would turn this bill into something life-changing for families.

I thank the gentlelady, this gentleman from Utah and Sicily on the point of order.

I withdraw my point of order.

The reservation is withdrawn. Does anyone else seek recognition on the amendment?

Question's now in the middle.

The question is on the amendment by the gentlelady from Pennsylvania. All in favor say aye.

Aye.

All opposed no. No.

No.

In the opinion of the chair, the no's have it and the amendment is not agreed to. A a roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to to H No further amendments, so further action on H R seventy-seven twenty-five is postponed. We'll now move to consider the next bill. The committee will now proceed to consideration of H R seventy-six seventy-seven for amendment. The bill was circulated in advance and printed copies are available. The clerk shall designate

H R seven six seven seven. A bill to require the Comptroller General of the United States to conduct a study regarding fraud prevention measures in certain federal early childhood education, child care and child nutrition programs, and for other purposes.

Without objection, the first reading of the bill is dispensed with. Without objection, the bill will be considered as read and open for amendment at any point, and any amendment offered shall be considered as read. Does anyone seek to be recognized? Representative.

Seven. I have an amendment at the desk, G A O A N S O one.

The clerk shall designate the amendment in the nature of a substitute.

Amendment in the nature of a substitute to H R seven six seven seven, offered by Mister Owens of Utah, identifier G A O underscore A N S underscore zero one.

Without objection, the amendment shall be considered original text for purposes of further amendment. The amendment in the nature of a substitute has already been distributed. I now recognize Mister Owens for five minutes to explain the amendment in the nature of a substitute.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, uh, I have been a proud supporter of the child care development block, uh, grant program since coming to Congress. Providing child care assistance for working families is not only a family issue, it's a workforce issue as well. On the whole, child care is an economic driver, uh, but in the two thousand two report of the Government Accounting Office, CCDBG, it was identified as a program at risk of significant improper payments. While some improvements and protections have been made, and millions of children have been served over the last twenty years, twenty-five years. More can be done. What's, that's why I'm introducing HR seventy-six seventy-seven, the Closing the Provider Fraud Gap Act, to direct GAL to again report on the effectiveness of fraud prevention measures in early childhood education, and grant uh, and care grant programs under this committee's juridic juris jurisdiction. This amendment i- in the nature of a substitute makes a technical change to the bill. As billions in taxpayer dollars flow directly to providers, we need a full picture of where the fraud can be can slip through the cracks. CCDBG, the child and adult care food program, the Head Start, are at the a part of this uh ecosystem. And with money continuing to go out the door through these programs, we should understand where the system can be gamed and fixed. With that, I urge my colleagues to support this bill, and I yield back.

I thank the gentlemen. Are there any members who wish to be recognized for further discussion?

Mr. Chairman.

Uh, the gentleman from Virginia, the ranking member, Mr. Scott, do you wish to be recognized?

Mr. Chairman, I move to protect the last word.

You're recognized for five minutes.

Mr. Chairman, uh HR seventy-six seventy-seven requires the GAO to conduct a study regarding fraud prevention measures in federal early childhood education, child care, child nutrition programs, including Head Start, CACFP and the CCDBG programs. Are the explicitly explicitly name other programs such as the child care excess means parents and schools uh sea campus program or the summer food service program among others which uh ensure parents are able to make ends meet and ensure children are cared for in safe and appropriate environments. I assume the JAO will focus on those important programs and uh too. I'd encourage my colleagues to support the bill and yield back the balance of my time.

I thank the gentlemen. Are there any other members who wish to be recognized for further discussion on the amendment in the nature of a substitute? There being no further discussion on the amendment in the nature of a substitute, the committee will move to consideration of amendments. Are there any members who would like to offer amendments? The gentleman from New York, Mister Mannion, do you have an amendment to offer?

Thank you, Mister Chair. I have an amendment at the desk, Mannion underscore AMD underscore zero two.

The clerk.

Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to H R seven six seven seven, offered by Mister Manion of New York, identifier Manion underscore AMD underscore zero two.

This is a gentleman from Utah, reserve a point of order.

I reserve a point of order, Mister Chairman.

Point of order is reserved. I now recognize the gentleman from New York, Mister Manion, for five minutes in support of his amendment.

Thank you, Mister Chair. My amendment calls for a comprehensive federal study on the root causes of child care shortages and the high cost. This independent, non-partisan study, completed by the GAO, would also examine ways that federal child care investments can help. One of these investments is USDA's Child and Adult Care Food Program, which reimburses child care centers for nutritious meals and snacks provided to kids. My amendment would give us better insight into how the program is working to keep our kids healthy and provide much needed relief to our child care providers. I'm a longtime advocate for child nutrition programs, and as a state senator I helped expand New York's popular free school meals program. Helping child care centers offer healthy meals is critical, and my amendment would allow us to study this further. I've also helped secure historic child care funding and address child care deserts in the state and have seen the impact positively of these investments. This is a common sense amendment that moves us in the right direction when it comes to improving child care access and affordability. I hear from parents all the time who are stuck on long wait lists, have limited options, or simply cannot afford child care at all. And our child care providers and workers face no shortage of challenges either, including tight budgets and significant workforce gaps. We need a fair and comprehensive analysis that reveals where exactly the problems lie within our system so that we can take action including making sure that we address fraudulent behavior, which must be emphasized. The underlying bill already calls for a GAO study, which is focused on that fraud prevention. I hope my Republican colleagues will agree with me on this point. If we're studying fraud proje prevention in child care, which we should and continuously occurs, then we absolutely should be studying the larger systematic problems facing the industry and placing enormous fin- This is what parents are concerned with, and they're expecting us to deliver on affordability, including in child care. The report I propose would serve as an important nonpartisan resource. I intend to support the underlying bill, but I also ask that my colleagues um support my amendment in a bipartisan way, as the people and the families in child care that work there and the children that we conserve, that we serve, come from all families, all political backgrounds, Democratic and Republican. Thank you, Mister Chair, for this opportunity, and I yield back.

I thank the gentleman. Uh, does the gentleman from Utah insist on a point of order?

I withdraw my point of order.

The reservation is withdrawn. Does anyone anyone else seek recognition on the amendment? The question then is on the amendment by the gentleman from New York. All in favor say aye.

Aye.

All opposed, no.

No.

No. In the opinion of the chair, the no's have it and the amendment is not agreed to.

Mister Chair, can I request a recorded vote, please?

A roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcement, this vote will be postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment in the nature of a substitute? Further action on H R seventy-six seventy-seven is postponed.

H R seven seven two six, H R seven seven two six, a bill to amend the Child Care and Development Block Grant Act of a bill to amend the Child Care and Development Block Grant Act of nineteen ninety, nineteen ninety to withhold funds from non-compliance states under such act. to withhold funds from non-compliance states under such act.

Mister Chairman, excuse me. I have an amendment at the desk, titel titled H seventy seven twenty six underscore ANS.

The clerk shall designate the amendment in the nature of a substitute.

Amendment in nature of a substitute to H R seven seven two six.

Without objection, the amendment shall be considered original, a text for purposes of further amendment. The amendment in the nature of a substitute has already been distributed. I now recognize Miss Miller for five minutes to explain the amendment in the nature of a substitute.

Thank you, Mister Chairman. Fraud and noncompliance have no place in our federal programs, especially when these programs are to assist children and working families. That is why I've introduced H R seventy-seven twenty-six, the No Funds for Repeat Child Care Violations Act, a very short and simple bill to enforce the child care and development block grant program integrity. If a state fails to address fraud or repeated noncompliance, there must be real consequences. My The bill simply replaces " may" with " shall" regarding the withholding of funds under such circumstances. This amendment, in the nature of a substitute, makes a technical change to the bill, ensuring that accountability for taxpayer dollars is not optional, but a sensible, responsible, and moral choice to protect the working families who contribute to our communities. I'm glad to see President Trump's administration take fraud seriously. I urge my colleagues to do the same and pass this bill, and I yield back.

I thank the gentlelady. Are there any members who wish to be recognized for further discussion on the amendment in the nature of a substitute? I recognize gentleman from Virginia, the ranking member, Mister Schaaf.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, I move to check the last word.

Recognized for five minutes.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, HL seventy-seven twenty-six makes a seemingly small but major change under the administration enforcement of C C D B G's statute requiring the secretary to impose other appropriate sanctions and disqualify states from C B C C C C D B G in an instance of finding of non-compliance. There's no evidence of widespread fraud in federal and f- with federal child care funds. The real crisis is the fact that there's been underfu- that the program has been underfunded for decades, leading to an inerr- inadequate supply of programs, to families and lower wage wages to providers. Nonetheless, fraud in health care should be taken seriously, not politicized. Now Republicans have proposed bills that overall have the potential to cause states to spend more of their child care funds or administrative costs, reducing the supply of child care available to families and punishing states and child care providers for administrative and human errors. The families want access to care and help making ends meet while raising young families. This proposal would remove the discretion of the secretary, poten potentially making it more likely that states would be disqualified from uh from CCDBG. Now let's be clear, a state being disqualified from CCDBG means the entire state would be cut off from the program, thousands of families being left in the lurch. While there are when there may be of course situations where an entire state may be pressured to improve the program integrity and subject to

Gentlemen yields, Gentlemen yields, are there any other members who wish to be recognized for further discussion on the are there any other members who wish to recognize for further discussion on the amendment and the nature of the bill? amendment and the nature of the bill please? There be no further discussion on the amendment and nature of substitute. The committee will move to consideration of amendments. Are there any members who would like to offer an amendment? There's a gentleman from Virginia, the ranking member, who wished to offer an amendment.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have the amendment at the desk. Um AMO one.

The clerk will report the amendment.

Amendment to the amendment.

Does the gentleman from Utah reserve a point of order?

I reserve a point of order, Mr. Chairman.

A point of order is reserved. I now recognize gentleman from Virginia, the ranking member, for five minutes in support of his amendment.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, the goal of this amendment is to prevent ICE enforcement activity, a child care child care centers. During this administration we've seen unprecedented immigration enforcement actions at and near places that were previously understood to be off limits, like schools and child care centers. Trump administration's immigration raids near child care centers have traumatized children and communities, and place heavy burdens on teachers and caregivers. If we want to create safe environments for children and families, we should not be allowing masked armed federal agents to enter these spaces. Parents should not have to fear deportation or incarceration while picking up children in daycare. The children should not have to fear that their parents might not come home. And citizens and totally documented children should not be traumatized watching all this enforcement and their um their their their school colleagues being whisked away by armed mask agents. Citizens watching that, I mean that's creates a mental health

I thank the gentleman. Does the uh gentleman from Utah res- insist on a point of order?

I'd like to re-reserve my point of order.

Reservation is withdrawn. Does anyone else seek uh recognition on the amendment? I yield myself such time as I may consume uh this amendment would require a memorandum of understanding between HHS and the Immigration and Customs Enforcement and uh the Customs and Border Patrol offices to not enter child care centers. This amendment really is outside of the scope of what our committee should be considering. We are not the committee that oversees federal law enforcement agencies. We're also not on the ground observing law enforcement activities. As such, we should not be considering amendments that would potentially interfere with law enforcement efforts on the ground or set a precedent, a precedent for legislating in areas largely outside of this committee's jurisdiction. And so for that reason, I, uh, intend to oppose the amendment. All seek recognition on the amendment. Seeing none, uh, the question is on the amendment by the gentleman from Virginia. All in favor say aye.

Aye.

All opposed, no. No. In the opinion of the chair, the noes have it and the amendment has not agreed to.

That's right.

A roll call vote is ordered. Pursuant to the chair's previous announcements, this vote will be postponed. Are there any further amendments to the amendment Further action on H R seventy-seven twenty-six is postponed. Pursuant to the previous order, the chair declares the committee in recess, subject to the call of the chair. We expect to reconvene promptly at two p m. Thank you. Uh, the committee stands in recess. hmm Uh, the committee will reconvene and, uh, come to order following our recess. Uh, we will proceed to postpone requests for recorded votes. Uh, you might want to, I believe, press your on button on your clicker here uh, to make sure it's engaged. We'll now be voting on one amendment. to the amendment in nature of a substitute to H R seventy seven twenty, the amendment offered by Mister Scott, title Scott, uh, H seventy seven twenty AM O zero zero four. A recorded vote is requested. Members will record votes using electronic voting voting system. Please open the vote.

Sorry, I'll write this down.

The f- the finger wandered.

Test. Okay, that that should be, should work. Where's it gonna go?

I can't believe she's not coming.

She is not, yeah.

Have all members been recorded?

Mister Chairman, on this vote there are fifteen nays and nineteen nays.

The amendment is not adopted. The question now occurs on the amendment and the nature of the substitute to HR seventy seven twenty. All in favor

Aye.

Aye.

Aye. All opposed, no.

No.

No. No.

And depending who the chair of the ayes have it, an amendment in the nature of substitute is agreed to. I hereby uh move that the committee report the bill HR seventy seven twenty to the House of Representatives with amendment and with recommendation that the amendment be agreed to, and the bill do pass. The question now occurs on the chair's motion. All in favor say aye. Aye.

Aye.

All opposed, no.

No.

In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it, and the motion is agreed to. Recorded vote has been requested. Um, members will record their votes using electronic voting system, and ask the clerk to open the vote.

Mm. Do we have a plan for that? I mean, I don't know. I think that's something that we have to look back on, because there's so many different options.

Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded?

I have a slight light. Um. Well, I have a slight light, but I'm not sure if I'm gonna be able to record everybody. Helen's not coming back.

We'll just keep going.

We'll keep going.

Do any members wish to change their votes? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce a tally.

Mister Chairman, on this vote there are nineteen nays and fifteen nays.

The ayes have it and the motion is agreed to, H R seventy-seven twenty as amended and the accompanying materials shall be transmitted to the House of Representatives. The chair notes for the record that a quorum is present. We'll now be voting on one amendment to the amendment in nature of a substitute to H R seventy-seven twenty-one, the amendment offered by Mister Scott, Title, Scott, eight seventy seven, twenty one, uh zero zero seven. A recorded vote is requested. Members will record their votes using the electronic voting system. Please open the vote. Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to be recorded?

Mister Chairman, on this vote there are fifteen nays and nineteen nays.

The amendment is not adopted. The question now occurs on the amendment and the nature of the substitute, HR seventy seven twenty one. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. All opposed, no.

No.

In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it, and the amendment and the nature of the substitute is agreed to. I hereby move, Aye. No.

No.

In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it, and the motion is agreed to.

Mm-hmm.

Recorded vote is requested. Members will record their vote using the electronic voting system. Please open the vote. Do all m- have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change their vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally.

Mister Chairman, on this vote there are nineteen nays and fifteen nays.

The ayes have it and the motion is agreed to, H R seventy-seven, twenty-one, as amended, and the accompanying material shall be transmitted to the House of Representatives. The chair notes for the record that a quorum is present. We'll now be voting on one amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute, HR seventy-seven twenty-two. The amendment offered by uh, mister Desaulni uh, titled Desaulni, eight seventy-seven, twenty-two, AM zero zero four. A recorded vote is requested. Members will record their votes using an electronic voting system. Please open the vote. Have all members been

Thank you. Mister Chairman, on this vote there are fifteen yeas and nineteen nays.

The amendment is not adopted. The question now occurs on the amendment in the nature of a substitute, HR seventy-seven twenty-two. All in favor say aye. Aye. Aye. Aye. All opposed, no. In opinion with share of the ayes, have it, an amendment in the nature of a substitute is agreed to. I hereby move that the committee report the Bill HR seventy-seven, twenty-two to the House of Representatives with amendment and with recommendation that the amendment be agreed to and the bill do pass. The question now occurs on the chair's motion. All in favor say aye. Aye.

Aye.

All opposed, no.

Aye.

In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it, and the motion is agreed to.

Recorded vote.

Recorded vote is requested. Members will record their votes using the electronic voting system. Please open the vote. Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change their vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the chat-tally.

Mister Chairman, on this vote there are twenty ayes and fifteen nays.

The ayes have it and the motion is agreed to, H R seventy-seven twenty-two as amended, and the accompanying material shall be transmitted to the House of Representatives. The chair notes for the record that the quorum is present. We'll now be voting on one amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute, HR seventy seven twenty three. The amendment offered by Mister Scott, title Scott, eight seven seven twenty three AM zero zero two. A recorded vote is requested. Members will record their votes using the electronic voting system. Please open the vote. Have all members been recorded or wish to be Do any members wish to change their vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally.

Mister Chairman, on this vote there are fifteen nays and twenty nays.

The amendment is not adopted. The question now occurs on the amendment and the nature of a substitute to HR seventy-seven, twenty-three. All in favor say aye. Aye.

Aye.

All opposed, no. In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it, and the amendment in the nature of a substitute,

Aye. No. No.

In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it, and the motion is agreed to. A recorded vote is requested. Members will record their votes using the electronic voting system. Please open the vote. Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded?

She's fine, she's fine.

All right. Do any members wish to change their vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally.

Mr. Chairman, on this vote there are twenty eights and fifteen nays.

The ayes have it and the motion is agreed to, uh, HR seventy seven twenty three, as a

Aye. Aye. No.

In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it, the motion is agreed to.

You don't uh put the voting, put the voting. I don't

Record vote.

put it.

A recorded vote is requested. Members will record their votes using the le- electronic voting system. Please open the vote.

This is fine. This is fine. You don't even have to put the voting. I don't know.

Have all members been recorded or wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change their vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally?

Yes.

Mister Chairman, on this vote,

The ayes have it and the motion is agreed to, H R seventy seven twenty four as amended, and the accompanying material shall be transmitted to the House of Representatives. The chair notes for the record that the quorum is present.

This amendment is present.

We'll now be voting on one amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to H R seventy seven twenty five. The amendment is offered by Miss Lee, title Lee, H seven seven, twenty five, AM zero zero five. A recorded vote is required.

Mr. Chairman, on this vote there are fifteen nays and twenty nays. Mr. Chairman, on this vote there are fifteen nays and fifteen nays.

The amendment is not adopted. The question now occurs on the amendment and the nature of the substitute to HR seventy-seven twenty-five. All in favor say aye. Aye.

Aye.

All opposed, no.

No.

In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it, and the amendment in the nature of a substitute is agreed to. I hereby move that the mi- committee report the bill HR seventy-seven twenty-five to the House of Representatives with the amendment and with the recommendation that the amendment be agreed to and the bill do pass. The question now occurs on the chair's motion. All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed, no. In the opinion of the chair of the ayes have it, and the motion is agreed to.

Record a vote.

Record a vote is requested. Members will record their votes using the electronic voting system. Please open the vote. Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change their vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally.

Mr. Chairman, on this vote there are thirty-five yays and zero nays.

The ayes have it, and the motion is agreed to, H R tw- seventy-seven, twenty-five as amended, and the accompanying material shall be transmitted to the House representatives. The chair notes for the record that a quorum is present. We'll now be voting on one amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to H R seventy-six, seventy-seven. A recorded vote is requested, mem- uh, Excuse me. The amendment offered by Mister Mannion, title Mannion, AMD zero two. A recorded vote is requested. Members will record their votes using the electronic voting system. Please open the vote. Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change their vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally?

Mister Chairman, on this vote there are fifty-two

The amendment is not adopted. The question now occurs on the amendment in the nature of a substitute to HR seventy-six, seventy-seven. All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed, no. In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it, the amendment is in the nature of a substitute is agreed to. I hereby move that the committee report the bill HR seventy-six, seventy-seven to the House of Representatives with amendment and with the recommendation that the amendment be agreed to and the bill do pass. The question now occurs on the chair's motion. All in favor say aye. Aye.

Aye.

All opposed, no. In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it, then the motion is agreed to.

Recorded vote.

Recorded vote is requested. Members will record their votes using the electronic voting system. Please open the vote. Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change their vote?

Mister Chairman, on this vote there are thirty-five yeas and zero nays.

The ayes have it and the motion is agreed to, H R seventy-six, seventy-seven as amended, and the accompanying material shall be transmitted to the House of Representatives. The chair notes for the record that a quorum is present. We'll now be voting on one amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to H R seventy-seven, twenty-six. The amendment offered by Mister Scott, titled " Scott, H seventy-seven, twenty-six, AM zero zero one". A recorded vote is requested. Members will record their votes using electronic voting system. Please open the vote. Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded? Do any members wish to change their vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally?

Mr. Chairman, on this vote there are sixteen yeas and nineteen nays.

The amendment is not adopted. The question now occurs on the amendment and the nature of the substitute to HR seventy-seven twenty-six. All in favor say aye. Aye.

Aye.

All opposed, no. In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it, and the amendment and the nature of a substitute is agreed to. I hereby move that the committee report the bill HR seventy-seven twenty-six to the House of Representatives with amendment and with the recommendation that the amendment be agreed to and the bill do pass. The question now occurs on the chair's motion. All in favor say aye.

Aye.

All opposed, no.

No.

In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it, then the motion is agreed to.

Recorded vote.

A recorded vote is requested. Members will record their votes using the electronic voting system. Please open the vote. Have all members been recorded who wish to be recorded?

Yep.

Do any members wish to change their vote? Hearing none, will the clerk please close the vote and announce the tally?

Mister Chairman, I'm Miss.

The ayes have it and the motion is agreed to, H R seventy seven twenty six as amended, and the accompanying materials shall be transmitted to the House representatives the chair notes for the record that a quorum is present. I ask unanimous consent that staff be authorized to make necessary technical and conforming changes to today's bills, without objection, so ordered.

Mm.

Pursuant to House Rule eleven, clause two L, I give notice that all members have have the requisite number of days to file supplemental, minority, additional, or dissenting views, without objection so ordered. Without objection, any member who wishes to insert materials into the record may do so by submitting them to the committee clerk electronically by the end of the day today. If there's no further business before the committee and appearing none, without objection, the committee stands adjourned.