Oversight hearing titled "Powering the 21st Century with American Copper."

The subcommittee on energy and minerals resources will come to order. Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare recess of the committee at any time. Under committee rule four F, any oral opening statements at hearings are limited to the chairman and the ranking minority member. I ask unanimous consent that the gentleman from Utah, Mister Kennedy, be allowed to participate in today's hearing, the gentleman uh from Montec- be allowed to participate in today's hearing. The gentleman from Alabama, Mister Palmer, be allowed to partic- participate in today's hearing. Uh, and I'll recognize myself for an opening statement. I'll start by thanking our witnesses for being here today to discuss the very important issue of powering the twenty-first century with American copper. Under the leadership of President Trump and House Republicans, the United States is delivering historic progress towards minerals dominance for the American people. Here in the United States, We are blessed with vast natural resources, including copper. My district in northern Minnesota is home to the Duluth complex, one of the largest untapped copper and nickel deposits in the entire world. Likewise, my district is also home to a skilled union workforce, eager to responsibly mine it. Across our nation, the copper industry directly employs sixty five thousand people with over thirty one billion dollars in annual wages and benefits. These are meaningful, high paying jobs. that support families and communities by producing the copper that is vital for the modern world. Copper is essential for nearly everything that that produces or uses electricity. Wiring, circuitry, and electric motors are all require copper. Water in your home, fire protection systems, and medical equipment in a hospital all rely on copper piping. By this time of the day, it's hard to count how many times we have all benefited from copper, from lighting in our home, the hot shower to start our day, appliances in our kitchens, the car, conventional conventional or electric, that brought us here, to the phone in our pockets and the computer system supporting this hearing. Beyond these items we use personally, there is an electric grid that powers the country, communication systems that connect us all, and advanced technologies that underpin our national security. Copper is indispensable element that makes it all work. The importance of copper to all these systems is driving an increase in demand. S and P global's, uh, copper in the age of AI report identifies, quote, a transformative trajectory for copper demand. Projecting a surge from twenty eight million metric tons in twenty twenty five to forty two million metric tons by twenty forty. A fifty percent increase that underscores the metal's pivotal role in multiple technological and economic domains, end quote. It is sobering to note that the study projects a ten million metric ton gap between supply and demand by twenty forty. Without meaningful supply expansion, that would mean a twenty percent global shortfall. Such a shortfall would exasperate the geopolitical struggle over natural resources that we find ourselves in with China. If the United States does not get serious about securing our mineral independence, including our copper independence, we will continue Copper is a vital source, and I bl- resource rather, and I believe we should work quickly to expand domestic production and processing. This subcommittee has produced, and the House has passed, several bills to advance that objective. Chairman Westerman's HR forty-seven seventy-six, the bipartisan Speed Act, which reformed federal permitting processes to let America build the infrastructure projects, including mining projects, My bill, H R forty ninety, which builds on President Trump's efforts by codifying aspects of three executive orders relating to hard rock mining. Our fellow committee member, Mister Amadei, introduced H R thirteen sixty six to restore clarity and stability to mining operations and support reclamation of abandoned hard rock mines. H R seven fifty five from our colleague, Mister Siskamani, would unify the US Geological survey's list of critical minerals and the Department of Energy's list of critical minerals. The full committee has also passed two bills, HR fifteen O one and Mister Shriv's HR fifty nine twenty nine for Mister for Mister Barr, which would provide fast forty one coverage to mining and mineral processing projects. And just this Monday, the President signed into law HJ res one forty, my Congressional Review Act resolution that reversed the Biden lock-up of Northern Minnesota's Duluth Complex, the largest untapped copper and nickel find in the world. To unleash our vast natural resources, we must take decisive action to cut through the red tape and years of policies that were developed to hinder mining. Our national security and economic well-being depend on a reliable, affordable supply of copper. We simply must do more to develop domestic supply chains and ensure that our country has the copper it I know my constituents in northern Minnesota are ready to step up and do their part. And I look forward to hearing from our witnesses on this important topic, and will now yield to the ranking member for her statement, Representative Ansari.

Thank you so much, Chair Stauber. Copper is in almost everything that we touch in the twenty-first century. The wires in our walls, our cell phones, the cars we drive, and the grid that keeps the lights on. It is also foundational to America's energy future. It is in wind turbines, solar panels, batteries, transmission lines and electric vehicles which, despite unrelenting attacks from the current president, will inevitably continue to grow because clean energy is affordable, stable and cannot be held hostage by foreign oil wars. Because of all of this, demand for copper will rise and as it does, we must prioritize a secure, resilient and responsible mineral supply chain. That starts with using the copper we already have, which is almost infinitely reusable. We need a robust recycling program, stronger collection systems, and more domestic processing capacity, so valuable scrap is reused here at home, instead of shipped overseas. Recovering copper from retired equipment, buildings, and electronics is often faster, cheaper, and cleaner than starting from scratch. It also means responsible domestic mining with real safeguards. We need strong environmental standards that protect communities, clean air, We need modern bonding requirements so that

Mm.

taxpayers are not left with the cost of cleanup. And we need meaningful tribal consultation because nearly ninety percent of copper reserves and resources in the United States are within just thirty-five miles of tribal land. Unfortunately, mining has a challenging history in the United States, especially for tribal communities who still suffer from polluted water, abandoned mine waste, and scars across the landscape. public trust for new projects, we must prove that today's mining industry will operate differently. And our regulations must match that reality. I am supportive of responsible mining, especially being from Arizona, which is the largest copper-producing state by far. But we still know that mining alone is not a strategy. To compete with our strategic adversaries like China, the United States needs a whole of supply chain approach that lets us make things here again. As I said, strong and safe refining and smelting capacity and modern manufacturing. We have just two copper smelters in the United States and both are at or near full capacity. Meanwhile, more than half of global smelting capacity is in China, and that share is expected to grow. Right now, we are already shipping raw copper or mined in the United States abroad, including to China. The United States is also exporting massive amounts of scrap metal including copper, instead of turning that material into American-made products. We should all agree that exporting strategic materials while importing finished goods is a wasted opportunity for workers manufacturers the economy, and our national security. Even if we mine and refine more copper in the United States, we will not have a secure supply chain without domestic manufacturing capacity to turn that copper into finished products here at home. Instead, the Trump administration's attacks on clean energy incentives, tariffs that raise costs for manufacturers and uncertainty for private investment, especially investment in clean and affordable energy, have undermined the very domestic industries that drive copper demand and create good-paying American jobs. Weakening clean energy manufacturing does not strengthen supply chains. It risks seeding the next generation of industrial leadership to competitors like China. If we are serious about copper security, then the answer is not simply to dig more. It is to mine responsibly, recycle aggressively, manufacture competitively, and build the clean energy economy here in the United States of America. One final missing link is smart demand management. In a resource constrained environment, we should prioritize copper uses that strengthen the grid, modernize infrastructure, deploy clean energy, and electrify transportation. Uses that will make life safer,

Thank you very much. Um, I will now, uh, yield to the Chairman of the full committee, Mister Wesselman, for your opening statement.

Well, thank you, Chairman Stauber, for holding this very important hearing, and thank you to all of our witnesses for testifying today. Um, we've focused quite a bit in this committee on critical minerals And the S and P Global Report, Copper in the Age of AI, really brings home how critical copper is to our way of life and the challenges we are facing to ensure that we continue to have an adequate supply here. As Doctor Juergen testified, the world is facing a potential supply shortfall of twenty percent unless there is a meaningful supply expansion. As I understand it, the price of copper increased seven point six percent last year and is projected to increase another fourteen and a half percent this year. Given the widespread reliance on copper for so many uses, I'm concerned about the ripple effect through our economy if this trend continues, and it doesn't look like there's anything on the horizon to to stymie it right now. The S and P report focuses on the challenges of electrification and notes that global electricity demand will grow nearly fifty percent by twenty forty. Now, much of that global demand is driven by the increasing use of electricity for cooking, heating, and air conditioners in the the developing world. Here in the US, electricity use may grow as much as two and a half percent each year. And according to the Edison Electric Institute, investor-owned utilities will spend over one point one trillion dollars over the next five years to meet the growing demand. As Miss Phillips noted in her testimony, this domestic growth is being driven by AI, advanced manufacturing, and the electrification of transportation, buildings, Adequate, reliable, and affordable supplies of copper are essential to this infrastructure development, and the need for permitting reform spans it all. To develop the abundant resources we are blessed with here in America, Mister Estill's copper producers need timely and predictable permitting to secure investment and grow the domestic supply. Um, Mister Phillips member companies, or Miss Phillips member companies need timely, predictable permitting to build facilities that we use that copper and manufacture the equipment necessary for our electric utilities. Finally, the utilities desperately need timely, predictable permitting to increase our electricity generation and expand the grid. The SMP global report states, and I'm quoting from this, "The intersection of accelerating demand, constrained supply, and concentrated processing capacity creates systemic risk that require responses from policymakers, regulators, industry and investors." The choices made in the coming years will determine whether copper remains an enabler of progress or becomes a bottleneck to growth and innovation. I say as a nation, Mister Chairman, that we can't allow copper to become a constraint on our economy, because China certainly won't let that happen. And if we look at the global production of China, uh, because we have allowed domestic copper production to atrophy here, we're down to just two here in the US while China has forty-five. If you look back just thirty years ago, we were producing twice as much copper as China. And today they're producing, I believe the number is somewhere around eleven times, ten or eleven times as much as we produce here. That's not because uh copper became a bad business in the US. It's not because we didn't foresee a need for copper. It's because we just let it move overseas. We quit building smelters, we quit mining and we gave that industry to our global competitor and it's really coming back to bite us right now. But I think we still have time to to um to change the course of the ship and to get our country back on the right track. Because we are competing with China for the necessary resources to maintain our very supply of electricity and to promote our leadership in artificial intelligence. The S and P global report stresses that the availability of copper could be a constraining factor on expanding that essential flow of electricity and thus on all on the rollout of AI and the promise it holds for efficiency and innovation. Similarly, as Mister Estelle noted in his testimony, maintaining American leadership in artificial intelligence is in a very direct sense a copper challenge. Uh, this is not a competition we can afford to lose to China. it's not something that we're gonna be able to recycle our way out of. We need to do more recycling. We need to be responsible stewards of what we've got, but the numbers just don't add up. We've got to mine more copper if we're going to meet the demands. And if we're going to meet the demands that we have for copper, then permitting reform is a is necessary to ensure that we have robust domestic supplies of copper and the ability to process This is vital for our national security, it's vital to our energy security, and it's also vital to our leadership in AI. Mister Chairman, I yield back and look forward to hearing the witness testimony.

Thank you, Chairman Westerman. Uh, we will now begin our witness panel. Let me remind the witnesses that under committee rules, they must limit their oral statements to five minutes, but their entire statement will appear in the hearing record. To begin your testimony, please press the on button on the microphone. We use timing lights. Again, the light will turn green. At the end of five minutes, the light will turn red, and I will ask you to please complete your statement. Uh, I will allow all witnesses to testify before member questioning. Our first witness is Doctor Daniel Juergen. He is the Vice Chairman of the SMP Global, and he is stationed in Washington DC. Doctor Juergen, this report is phenomenal. Uh, you folks did a great job and I appreciate that. You are now recognized for five minutes.

Uh, Thank you very much. Chairman Westerman, Ranking Member Huffman, Subcommittee. Thank you, Chairman Stauber and Subcommittee Ranking Member Ansari. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. And thank you, uh, Chairman, uh, Stauber and Chairman Westerman for the citation of our study, which does point to a fifty percent increase, uh, in copper demand in less than fifteen years. And that underscores copper's, uh, pivotal role. It also points out, as you do, to the ten million ton shortfall by twenty forty without meaningful supply response. And that's with an incredibly aggressive uh recycling happening, a a two and a half times increase. So this increase in demand in copper arises from the simple fact that copper is a metal of electrification, and we're looking around the world at electricity demand growing by almost fifty percent in the next fourteen years it's happening in the US and it's happening around the world uh utilities that were had flat demand in the US are now looking at five to eight percent growth in one year. Uh, what's happening in terms of copper is growth along five vectors uh of which uh the most recent is artificial intelligence in data centers and humanoid robots uh data centers are electricity intensive and copper is used throughout the system uh we think by twenty thirty data centers alone could rise from five percent of us uh electricity consumption to fourteen percent that's in in less than half a decade um while ai is creating a new vector it's not the largest by any means. It's this core economic demand that began when Thomas Edison laid eighty-two thousand feet of copper cables under the lower Manhattan in eighteen eighty-two, to electrify uh lower Manhattan. And today it's reflected in everything what we'll be hearing from the other witnesses, from appliances to manufacturing. And this sector of, this vector of demand continues to grow. A second vector of demand is energy transition and addition. EVs two point nine times more copper than a conventional car. And the population of EVs is growing. Solar and wind uh require a lot of copper, uh much more than people recognize. But energy transition takes another form as well. As well, it's the populations in the developing world that are moving from wood and waste for their heating and cooking to commercial energy including electricity. Between now and twenty forty, about two billion more uh air conditioners will be added in the developing world. Defense is a key vector of current copper demand. And you all know what rising geopolitical tensions and the electrification of military systems is driving uh the need for more copper. Finally, this uh fifth vector of demand is humanoid robots, uh which is only at the cusp. And humanoid robots will be wired, they will be copper wired. So even as global demand is accelerating along these vectors, these five vectors, the current supply. to decline as existing resources age. So copper supply is a global story, where the US has a major role to play. In nineteen ninety, the US copper production represented eighteen percent of global production and nineteen percent of of uh production. Now the picture is starkly different, four and three percent respectively. I know that number forty-five uh smelters in China gets used. The numbers we're looking at is something like over sixty smelters in China. compared to two operating in the United States. This is but one example of what haunts the US government and other western governments, which is China's overwhelming domination of the mineral supply chains, and the challenge of diversifying these supply chains and making them less dependent and more resilient. So that means, and that certainly applies to copper. So the US has two hundred and thirty million metric tons of copper and reserves and resources underground waiting to be mined. It remains people may not realize it the second largest country in reserves and potential behind only chile meeting this growing demands is fraught with challenges above and below ground these challenges pertain to mining recyclability and processing but even with these challenges there are steps that we can take there are policies that we can take things that this committee is looking at to increase investment and innovation across the copper value chain first accelerate mine development and that requires reforms permitting and judicial review, absolutely critical. Second is to expand processing capacity. Third is to enhance recycling. And finally, the fourth is address the talent gap in mining and processing as the industry faces a wave of retirements and declining enrollment in technical programs. These all focus on the on the issue of of copper in the age of AI. Thank you for inviting me to testify, and I'd be pleased to take your questions.

Thank you very much. Our next witness is Miss Deborah Phillips. She is the President and CEO of the National Electrical Manufacturers Association. And she is stationed in Arlington, Virginia. Miss Phillips, you are now recognized for five minutes.

Thank you, Chairman Westbrook, Westerman, Ranking Member Huffman, Subcommittee Chairman Stauber, Ranking Member Ansari, and members of the committee. I appreciate the opportunity to testify today. I'm Deborah Phillips, the President and CEO of the National Electrical Manufacturers Association, also known as NEMA. We represent three hundred companies that manufacture essential electrical equipment. Our industry contributes fully one percent of US GDP. We directly employ half a million uh people in every state, and we support two point two million American jobs across the economy. We produce the technologies that generate, transmit, distribute, control electricity. NEMA members make it possible to power our homes, hospitals, factories, data centers, and other critical infrastructure. We are the manufacturers, building the backbone of the modern energy system, and copper is fundamental to virtually every product we make. There is no energy system without copper, and we're gonna need significantly more of it to meet the demand that is growing at unprecedented rates. To meet this rising domestic demand, our members are expanding their US operations. In fact, uh, since twenty eighteen, our members have invested over two hundred billion dollars in US manufacturing with a hundred billion more on the way. But to be successful at this scale, we have Why? Because the United States is entering a new era of electricity demand growth. According to our recent published study focused on US electricity demand, and this is distinct from Doctor Juergen's study which looks at demand globally, we expect demand here in the US to rise by fifty-five percent in twenty-fifty. And we expect data center electricity demand alone to increase by three hundred percent between now and twenty-thirty-five. The electrification of buildings, industry, transportation systems are also significant drivers of new demand. And this outlook is not a distant theoretical scenario, it's underway today. Meeting this new era of electricity demand will require a major build-out of our physical infrastructure and the equipment our member companies make. Transformers, switchgear, wiring cable, motors and drives, lighting solutions, industrial automation, and more. Copper runs through this entire system. It's embedded across the infrastructure that moves energy molecules and electricity. From extraction to production to the grid, from the grid to homes and factories, to new sources of demand like data centers and EVs. Copper is the common denominator to it all, and the electrical products that power it. Copper in the transf is is in the transformers that step voltage up and down, the wiring cable that carry electricity over long distances into homes and businesses, the motors that power industrial operations, and the switchgear that controls electrical systems to keep them running safely and reliably. Copper is also fundamental to emerging sources of demand as Doctor Juergen said, such as data centers and electric vehicles, as well as our homes and our offices that are increasingly smart and connected. Our industry is working hard to manage copper supply chain risks, and smart public policy can help support our efforts. We support recent policy actions to expand US access to critical minerals like copper. This includes adding copper to the US Geological Survey's critical minerals list, as well as subcommittee chairman Stauber's critical mineral dominance act. We also support perm support permitting reform, including transmission, it must include transmission from our view, to reduce timelines for developing essential grid, manufacturing and other critical infrastructure, while maintaining important environmental protections. We support Chairman Westerman's Speed Act for this reason. Speed matters because demand is accelerating now. We also support efforts of members in both chambers who have put forward proposals to build grid capacity through grid enhancing technologies, with legislation such as the Rewire Act, These policies would incentivize the technologies that will help us get more electrons out of our existing grid, while we develop new generation. Finally, electrical manufacturers need a predictable trade policy that aligns with our grid needs and our manufacturing ambitions. The electrical industry's products are integral to these applications and their affordability during this period of electric electricity demand growth and rapid ensuring of manufacturing will keep costs down for consumers. Clearly, copper is not another commodity, it's a strategic asset, and I'll close with this. Electricity demand is rising, the technology exists to meet it, manufacturers are investing, but materials like copper must be there. We urge Congress to work with manufacturers, miners, processors, and other key stakeholders in this room to strengthen domestic copper supply chains, accelerate responsible production, and ensure we have the materials needed to build at the scale this moment demands. Because if the United States is gonna lead on energy, we must build, and to build,

Thank you very much. Our next witness is Doctor Michelle Bustamante. She is a staff scientist for the Natural Resources Defense Council, and she is stationed in Washington DC. Doctor Bustamante, you are now recognized for five minutes.

Thank you, Chair Stauber, Ranking Member Ansari, and subcommittee members. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. My name is Doctor Michelle Bustamante. Uh, as referenced, I'm a staff scientist at the Natural Resources Defense Council, where I lend my expertise from years of prior research as a sustainability scientist, including in large large part on topics of uh at subject of today's hearing, like copper and material supply chains, toward our non-profit mission of safeguarding the earth, its people, its planets, and animals, and the natural systems upon which all life depends. The title of today's hearing, as we all know, is " Powering the Twenty-first Century with American Copper". In thinking about how to be most responsive to that question, I found myself having to address a more foundational question first, which is, which version of the twenty-first century are we talking Is it the committee's interest only to explore a status quo future that responds passively to present market trends or can we be bold enough to consider where we can actively work together to shape an intentional future in ways that better meet the needs of present day communities and future generations while respecting natural systems in the process. The choice we make will matter enormously to the question at hand. Different development paths lead to very different outcomes for greenhouse gases energy demand manufacturing needs and including for copper. Leading international scientific consensus makes clear that ambitious climate mitigation is a precondition for sustainable development. But it also shows us that how we decarbonize matters. As laid out in my more fulsome written testimony, even for pathways that are responsive to the massive challenge of mitigating climate change, uh, some pathways rely on very high resource and energy use, while others emphasize efficiency, demand side measures, and circularity, while still delivering high levels of human well-being. These differences have direct implications for copper and other raw material demand. Electrification at the center of virtually all Paris Agreement consistent paths does not, uh, does increase copper needs. But importantly, the scale of that increase, as well as where, when, and under what conditions, its access is still very much a result of choices that we can make today, and are not a foregone conclusion. Managing energy demand through efficiency throughout the supply chain, and expanding recycling can substantially r- reduce pressures on raw material extraction, while still meeting climate and community goals. Under net zero aligned scenarios, uh most studies project copper demand rising, but by very different amounts, depending on assumptions about energy demand growth, technology design and recycling rates. And some even show potential for stabilization or decline long-term. Globally, only seventeen percent of today of the world's twenty-seven million metric tons of refined copper, is currently met by recycled materials. But studies show that that could increase to nearly sixty-five to seventy percent through improvements in collection and recycling Recent research from UC Davis shows that the number of new copper mines needed to meet this, uh, increased demand globally can also be reduced through aggressive recycling by over thirty percent, relative to our reference case and seventy-seven percent if trends in larger vehicle battery size and lower recycling rates are not addressed. For the United States, annual copper demand, uh, is currently two point three million tons, with roughly a quarter supplied by recycling. US specific modeling is limited, but available studies suggest demand may rise to about three to four million tons, again heavily dependent on technology choices, efficiency, and material recovery, which brings me to the role of American copper. Domestic copper production can rely uh can play a role in supporting a clean energy transition but only if pursued in ways that are consistent with the public interest mining and processing carry real risks to water resources, ecosystems, and communities. That means location, scale, and maintaining standards through from operation all the way through end of life matter more, not less. The United States al- already demonstrates that we need not just mine our way out of this. A balanced approach is possible. We produce significant copper d- domestically, rely on close allies for imports, use recycled content, and utilize environmental governance structures. Strengthening this balance is key. In practice, enhancing supply security is not only about opening new mines. Addressing midstream gaps in processing and refining, expanding recycling capacity, and designing products for longer life and recovery can reduce the need for new extraction and improve resilience. Recycling in particular is a major opportunity, but recycling at scale requires policy, standing standards for product design, investment in domestic infrastructure, and strong end of life collection systems. To conclude, concerns about copper supply are not meritless, but outcomes are not predetermined, and the people in this room have a great deal of agency to shape that demand, guide development, and set conditions that protect people and ecosystems while supporting the clean energy transition. A sustainable twenty first century powered by copper is not one defined

Thank you very much. Our final witness is Mister Adam Estelle. He is the President and CEO of the Copper Development Association, and he is stationed in McLean, Virginia. Mister Estelle, you are now recognized for five minutes.

Good morning, Chairman Westerman, Ranking Member Huffman, Subcommittee Chairman Stauber, and Ranking Member Ansari. and other distinguished members of the subcommittee. I appreciate the opportunity to speak with you today about this topic of great importance to our country. On behalf of Copper Development Association, which represents US producers, fabricators, and wiring cable members, we are deeply grateful for the concerted efforts from the administration and bipartisan members of Congress for their support for our industry. In particular, I'd like to thank the bipartisan copper caucus. Today, we face a true Sputnik moment for American copper. As we've clearly established, copper is the indispensable Copper is the backbone of our electrical grid, our telecommunication systems, our water infrastructure, our buildings, our transportation, our defense industrial base, and more recently, data centers. Every sector at the forefront of American strategic ambition runs on copper. And as demand for this red metal continues to grow, America has to adopt an all of the above copper sourcing strategy to protect our national interests. This must involve increased domestic mining, increased domestic refining and processing, increased domestic recycling, as well as continued trade with dependable partners. None of these solutions on their own will be sufficient to meet demand. Domestic producers are galvanized, and they're gearing up to produce not just more copper, but better copper that's produced responsibly and sustainably through robust third-party assurance frameworks like the Copper Mark. I'll now highlight some of the primary challenges and key segments of the copper supply chain and offer some pragmatic solutions that we believe will help ensure a resilient and reliable American copper industry. for generations to come. Starting with mining, the United States sits atop a massive geological copper endowment estimated at two hundred and thirty million metric tons. Yet, domestic production has fallen dramatically over the last three decades, driven by the following constraints, among others. First, permitting timelines for new US mines routinely stretch well over a decade, far exceeding those in competing nations. Second, US copper ore grades are relatively lower than other regions, which puts domestic producers at a significant cost disadvantage versus international mines. And third, workforce pipelines are critically depleted. Without intervention, we will fall far short of what's necessary to support re-industrialization of domestic mining. Now, moving one step down in the copper supply chain, the erosion of US copper smelting and refining capacity represents one of the most acute vulnerabilities to American copper. Consider that in nineteen seventy-six, America operated sixteen primary copper smelters. And today, only two remain in operation, with a third mock-bald. By contrast, China controls approximately forty percent of global copper smelting capacity. Through massive state subsidies, China's overcapacity in copper smelting has created severe economic headwinds for our remaining smelters, and it's also actively deterring new market entrants that see no business case in the current climate. We can change this landscape by passing HRA two seven seven to make copper eligible for the forty-five X advanced manufacturing production tax credit, for both primary and secondary refiners. We see this as mission critical, And secondly, our existing smelters require sustained financial support, permitting reform, and regulatory certainty to compete against Chinese dominance. Now, moving again further downstream, we must not forget about our critical midstream fabricators that transform copper raw materials into semi-finished products. This segment has suffered severe and sustained damage from decades of unfair trade, including dumping and state-sponsored overproduction, principally from China. In addition, China uses trade. practices to import massive volumes of high quality copper scrap generated right here in the United States. That scrap is then processed and returned to the US market as semi-finished or finished goods often below market value undermining domestic industry and American workers CDA's fabricator members therefore support following through on the domestic purchase requirement for high quality copper scrap through precision targeted export controls on five specific Schedule B codes and secondly advancing protections for downstream copper derivatives manufacturers to bring back the customer base for the midstream that was hollowed out by hyper-globalization in China's non-market practices. In closure, this is a true Sputnik moment for American copper. And a strong America simply cannot exist without a strong domestic copper industry. I want to thank you for your time, for the opportunity to testify today, and I look forward to your questions, answering them this morning or through written follow-up. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Um, just before we, uh, before I start my questioning, we're gonna have votes will probably interrupt our conversation. Um, you know, throughout the morning, so uh, we we're gonna uh, put forth a recess when when time permits uh, the ranking members. Uh, it's understandable we've gotta get to the floor and vote and come back, but we're gonna we're gonna do this as uh, as quick as we can in between votes. So um, if we call a recess, that's because uh, votes are ahead of us. So I'm gonna now recognize members for five minutes of questioning. I'm gonna now recognize myself for five minutes. Um. Doctor Juergen, your report notes that recycling can make an important contribution to our supply of copper, but additional copper mining will be necessary. Would you please elaborate on that?

Thank you. Uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, I mean, sometimes people will just look at recycling as though, uh, you can take all the wiring out of this building and recycle it. But most of the copper that's being used today is being used productively. So, we do, uh, see a, uh, substantial, uh, possibility of increasing recycling. but we see it meeting about twenty five percent of of demand and that uh that uh it's cumulative you need more elect EVs out there and then at the end of their life they'll get you know there will be opportunity for recycling but it doesn't uh recycling does not obviate the need for considerable expansion of mining and uh mineral supply.

Thank you. Uh, Miss Phillips, uh, it's my understanding that the copper that is required to manufacture much of the equipment, your

Thank you, Mister Chairman, for the question. Yes, that's correct. Uh, the the the copper that is required by the electrical industry has to abide by specific purity standards which is typically above ninety-nine percent. And so the scrap market does not always meet that standard. It's challenging to get the copper to that level of purity.

Mm.

Um, you know, we we support research. to get there and to improve those recycled supply chains, but what needs to come into our process has purity requirements that are a challenge right now to meet through recycled streams.

So it's safe to say, while copper recycling is an important part of our copper supply chain, this isn't just a problem we can recycle our way out of. In other words, we're going to mine more copper. Is that correct?

Yes, sir.

Um, Doctor Juergen, the US currently has two operating smelters. Mister Estelle noted that. has forty five you've in your testimony you said it's more like sixty that controlling over forty percent of the world's copper processing I point my colleagues across, I'll frequently make I share their concern and believe the solution is to develop more processing here in the United States. Doctor Juergen, your report characterizes the ec economics of processing as increasingly precarious and that the geographic concentration amplifies systemic risk and exposes the supply chain to geopolitical shocks. Would you Please discuss that further.

Yes, uh, the Chinese uh, smelters are willing to operate at a loss basically because they have ancillary uh, sources of revenue that result from it and it does put our and they also have very new facilities where they're modernized uh the most advanced technologies for smelting because so many of them are so so new it's quite dramatic how quickly they have come to dominate uh smelting and i think uh in terms of the US, You know, there is this question, can we build uh in an expeditious way new uh new processing facilities uh in this country and also uh can we work with like-minded countries to see processing done in other countries too that would change this basic problem of over-reliance on China for uh all minerals including copper including copper processing.

Thank you. Uh, Mister Still, last year S&P reported that it takes an average of nineteen uh nineteen point one years to bring a new mine into production would you please describe how permitting reform could reduce delays and increase predictability to improve investor confidence

yes thank you mister chairman absolutely we need permitting reform to get more copper online faster so uh specifically the delays can accelerate uh or expand project timelines we have multi-agency review processes given the fact that most of the copper is on government land so efforts to streamline that process would be extremely beneficial Uh, first and formal foremost clear timelines for a NEPA environmental reviews. We understand that as one of the main bottlenecks. Uh, second would be establishing a a lead agency with all the agencies involved to help streamline it. And third, encouraging uh concurrent review processes rather than sequentially. So those steps, as CDA supported on record, uh, Chairman Westerman's speed act would help address some of those issues. But permitting reform is absolutely critical to make this work.

And then my last question here in my last thirty seconds. With the permitting reform bills the House Republicans have put forth,

Absolutely, I believe so. We'd support any of those bills that would help

Mm.

without compromising responsible mining practices.

Thank you very much. Uh, I will now recognize uh Representative Ansari, Ranking Member Ansari for five minutes.

Thank you and thank you all so much for your testimony. As we have heard, ensuring we have the copper we need here in the United States isn't just about mining, without and manufacturing to turn copper ore into usable products, we're just digging ourselves into a bigger hole. But instead of building up these crucial parts of the copper supply chain, this administration is busy attacking one of the biggest drivers of new manufacturing and mineral processing in the United States, which is clean energy. Miss Phillips, would you agree that policies that drive up demand for American-made products that contain copper, like wind turbine, batteries, and transmission lines, are good for creating jobs in manufacturing and a yes or no answer is fine.

We believe we need all we need all sources of energy generation, including clean energy.

Thank you. So we can assume that, you know, obviously the opposite is also true, just this week the administration illegally cancelled two more offshore wind leases, paying off two additional companies to kill affordable reliable energy products. That brings us to almost two billion dollars in taxpayer money as a bribe to keep clean energy off of the grid and keep American families paying more for fossil fuels. These cancellations and Republicans' nonstop attacks on wind, solar and battery storage across the United States are having very real impacts across the country including the loss of over thirty nine thousand good paying jobs, and over twenty nine billion dollars of investment in clean energy manufacturing just last year. Instead, we must prioritize policies that

Yes, thank you for that excellent question. Um, I really view this problem uh systemically. I really view this problem uh systemically. So, So, one of the first things that we can do, one of the first things that we can do, is try to look for solutions throughout the supply chain, including in managing the amount of extraction needed through smart use and efficiency, uh as well as innovation. What we need by today's standards may not be what we actually need in the future. Uh, focusing further on prioritizing sectors that drive down prices for Americans. So, clean energy technologies are increasingly the most affordable sources of power, and we would like to see that. Uh, strong regulations, uh,

Thank you. We know that good industrial policy can deliver real benefits for Americans because we've seen it. So I would like to ask unanimous consent to enter into the record this April twenty twenty six report from the Roosevelt Institute called, The Receipts, The

Without without objection.

Together the infrastructure investment and jobs act, the chips act, and the science, chips and science act, and the inflation reduction act drove private investment and expanded industrial capacity across the country, raised wages, grew and grew our skilled industrial workforce, and built stronger projects with more public support through community benefit agreements. We don't have to accept a race to the bottom. Our minerals policy can and must

Yeah, so strong regulation is a way for us to actually see these projects go through without so much contention, um, and allow us to compete, uh, in responsibly in the global market. Um, having strong

thank you so much i yield back

uh thank you very much as i alluded to uh we have votes called uh towards the end of the first vote so at this moment uh the chair will call a recess and will come back after votes thank you

Can see some parallels with that and another industry that happens to be central to my state of Idaho, the IDA uh nuclear, which is uh affiliated with Idaho National National Lab. We do a lot of research there and since we basically ignored or or not paid attention to that industry since the nineteen eighties, our workforce and our supply chain has been very, very depleted. And so I in in that instance, there's a couple of things that are being focused on to try to improve it. One is the utilization of AI. And the other is is trying to to increase the utilization of robotics. I wanna just tee that up with you, giving your testimony in the arena of uh copper mining, copper processing, and see if any of that is being looked at within the industry and your commentary on that.

Yes, thank you for your question. Uh, absolutely we see great promise and potential for artificial intelligence, automation, and other things to help advance our industry, and also help attract the next generation of of workforce that we need. And it's not just mining, right? We need skilled labor at all segments of the supply chain, on the smelting, refining, processing side, and midstream fabrication, and also the recycling side as well. So, as I look,

Miss, uh, Miss, uh, Phillips, Monsieur, uh, Miss, uh, Phillips, from the manufacturing standpoint, from the manufacturing stand point, what do you think on that topic? what do you think on that topic? What, what's the what are the pinch points with your your workforce and supply chain needs?

Thank you, thank you uh for the question. Yes, uh labor uh skilled labor across the entire electrical supply chain is key a a key constraint to growth for our industry as well. Uh, we're down about fifteen thousand jobs in the transformer supply chain. It's one of the reasons why we we we've got transform lengthy lead times for transformers. We just can't run second and third shifts. So we face some of the um, labor constraints as, as the mining industry. We're very focused on that. There's some pieces of legislation that help. The Vet Act, uh, establishes glide paths for veterans to come into, to the energy industry. This administration has, has focused on Amer- America's talent strategy, uh, on growing apprenticeships. That's very important for the electrical and, and energy industry, um, as a, as a whole. But we, we face those same constraints, but also like, like Mister Estelle mentioned, see the promise of industrial automation and robotics technologies