Oversight Hearing on "Tribal Natural Resource Development: Barriers and Successes"

Good morning. The subcommittee on Indian and Insular Affairs will come to order. Without objection, the chair is authorized to declare recess of the subcommittee at any time. The subcommittee is meeting today to hear testimony for an oversight hearing entitled "Tribal Natural Resource Development, Barriers and Successes." under Committee Rule four F, any oral opening statements at hearings are limited to the chairman and the ranking minority member. I therefore ask unanimous consent that all of the members' opening statements be made part of the hearing record if they're submitted in accordance with Committee Rule three O. Without objection, so ordered. I ask unanimous consent that the gentleman from Alaska, Mister Begich, be allowed to sit and participate in today's hearing. Without objection, so ordered. I will now recognize myself for an opening statement. Good morning again and thank you to each of our witnesses for being here. Developing an energy project on tribal lands can require nearly fifty federal approvals across multiple agencies. Off reservation, on private lands, that same project may require less than five. That's a ten-fold difference in bureaucracy, in burden, and that difference has consequences. Tribal lands contain substantial energy and mineral resources. An estimated fifteen million acres hold these resources, yet only about two point one million are currently in production. That gap is driven in part by the federal approval structure governing development on tribal lands. Because tribal land is typically held in trust, projects require federal involvement at multiple stages. Land status and title. leasing, rights of way, environmental review, and operational permitting. As the number of federal hurdles grows, delays accumulate, not necessarily because of any single decision, but because of how the system operates as a whole. That is the system that the Crow tribe, which is working to develop its significant coal resources, the Southern Ute, who h- who have oil and gas reserves, and Calusa Indian Energy, which operates a tribally owned energy system, are each navigating today. When timelines stretch, projects can lose financing, interconnection agreements, or access to infrastructure. In some cases, delays will entirely kill the viability of a project. Now Congress has taken some steps to address some of these challenges. In two thousand and five, we authorized Tribal Energy Resource Agreements, or TERAS, to allow tribes to assume greater control over certain energy development activities. Under the Terra framework, tribes can enter into agreements without case-by-case secretarial approval once a terra is in place. However, that authority has seen limited use in part due to the complexity of the approval process and the requirements placed on tribes seeking to enter into these agreements. More than twenty years after terras were authorized, the Southern Ute tribe who we will hear from today are on track to become the first tribe to use the TERRA framework. And I look very much forward to hearing about that experience. More recently, the Trump administration has taken aggressive action to unleash American energy dominance, cutting through bureaucratic delay, streamlining permitting, and refocusing agencies on domestic production. And this committee, through Chairman Westerman's Speed Act, has advanced complimentary reforms to reduce duplication and to provide greater predictability across federal permitting processes. Today, we are going to hear from witnesses who have worked directly to develop energy and mental resources on tribal lands. Their experience will help the subcommittee better understand where delays occur, how agencies interact, and what changes could make the process more workable. The question before us is this. When a tribe chooses to develop its energy resources, Does the federal process operate in a way that allows that project to proceed in a timely and predictable manner? That is what we're here to examine. I wanna thank each of our witnesses again for being here today, and I look forward to this discussion. At this time the chair will now recognize the ranking minority member for her opening statement.

We've got new uh different kinds of little uh

Navigated.

Navigated, these are new. Okay. Thank you so very much. I wanna thank each of our witnesses, because you have traveled and many of the students is very far. I have taken some of the connections that some of you have taken to get here, and I know it takes time. But sharing your stories of what works, where the frustrations are, where the opportunities are, are so key for us to be able to do our work, because there is incredible opportunity uh on tribal lands for uh resource development. And that energy resource development ranges from coal development to geothermal oil and gas, renewable, solar, just a range of it. And I think what's really important to recognize is that tribes sit at the center of the decision-making process on what they want to do. with their energy resources. Uh, and we have the Southern Ute tribe, which went through all of the ha- let's call it, the hassle of trying to get that first terra implemented. I worked on trying to get a terra implemented, and it was almost like you, you throw up your hands because we placed so many obstacles in the way of the tribes to be able to utilize those. And so thank you for having the patience to getting that done. But we also need to acknowledge that tribes should have the ability to utilize all their natural resources not everybody is blessed uh with fossil fuel resources. I'm from New Mexico, I represent both the Hickory and Apache nation, the Navajo nation who have resources like coal and oil and gas uh that can be developed, but I also represent tribes including the Hickory Apache nation which and the Navajo Nation, which have recently put up huge solar forms, uh other tribes which wanna put up uh uh wind forms, we need to let everybody do what is best and what resources they have. And my concern is that this administration acts in a way that denies tribes and tribal organizations the ability to utilize renewable energy to benefit their communities and others around them. Republicans used to say that they were an all of the buff strategy, But now we see an administration putting up arbitrary barriers to renewable energy. Last year, Trump took away billions of dollars, with a B, from the Inflation Reduction Act by terminating the EPA's solar for all program. That was five hundred million dollars, specifically for tribes to take advantage of uh opportunities that come with clean energy. At the GOE, Trump clawed back millions that tribes could use for grid resilience, important programs that would directly benefit tribes looking to provide power, both for family homes and to sell off reservation. At the Department of the Interior, the most recent attacks on natural resources came this month with the President's fiscal year twenty twenty seven budget request. The budget cuts natural resources management at the BIA by over two hundred and thirty million dollars. Two hundred and thirty million dollar cut. That includes a a thirty eight million dollar cut to tribal forestry, a fifteen million dollar cut to water resources, and a eleven million dollar cut to energy and mineral re work. It zeroes out programs like the tribal climate resilience program. Now, I know that we have incredible bipartisan support in Congress to fund these It's what we did last year when we saw uh the Trump administration try to do away with these programs and we came together on a bipartisan support uh basis and passed a budget that renewed these programs. And I look forward to doing the same because what you're gonna tell us today is gonna emphasize why they are so important even if though that's not why you came, we're gonna remember. It's like These are the kinds of things we do. And while you do those, we need somebody actually at the BIA who's gonna be able to move that paperwork, who's gonna be able to get it done. It doesn't happen without that coordination, and it takes um it takes somebody at the desk, it takes those boots on the ground. And so I know that the work you do, it both strengthens tribal sovereignty, it creates jobs, uh it develops the energy economy, um that we need for entire country to grow. Tribes represent a smaller percentage of our land base, but a larger percentage of the opportunities for energy development. I look forward to hearing your stories and with that, Mister Chair, I yield back.

The gentlewoman yields. Uh, at this time, we will introduce the witnesses for our panel. The chair would now like to recognize Mister Downing from Montana for thirty seconds to introduce the witness from his district, Mister Downing.

Well thank you uh, Mister Chair and Madam Ranking Member for holding this. Thank you for the witnesses for being here. And I gotta tell you with uh uh it's an honor to uh introduce our witness, uh Chairman Frank Whiteclay. I've uh known uh the chairman for probably close to ten years now and watched him uh raise uh rise up in the ranks of being a leader. with the Crow tribe of Indians in Montana. And I'll just tell you, I've met very few leaders that understand the issues of their people and advocate for the advocacy and well-being of uh his members in the Crow tribe. Uh he was uh elected November twenty twenty and uh on a platform of restoring government accountability and delivering sustainable growth across his communities and he brings significant experience as a tribal leader in managing the Crow's natural resources development including navigating regulatory hurdles for mining the region's substantial coal reserves. Uh, Chairman Whiteclay, it's great to see you, thank you for traveling to DC, and I look forward to your testimony today. On that, I yield.

Gentlemen, uh yields, thank you uh, Mister Downing. At this time it's uh my pleasure to introduce a witness from Colorado's third congressional district. Uh, Andrew Gallegos is a council member for the Southern Ute Indian tribe, where he plays a key role in advancing the tribe's priorities on economic development, natural resource, stewardship, and self-governance. He brings a practical, on the ground perspective, shaped by the realities facing tribal communities in the west, particularly when it comes to energy, infrastructure, and responsible land management. His leadership reflects a strong commitment to sovereignty, long-term economic strength, and to partnership with federal and state stakeholders. I appreciate you, Councilmember Gallegos, for being here today and sharing your insights and experience. Our next witness is Miss Talia Martin, Co-Executive Director of Tribal Energy Alternatives in Oakland, California. Welcome, Miss Martin. And last but certainly not least is Mister Ken Amman, Chief Operating Officer of Calusa Indian Energy in Calusa, California. Welcome, Miss Rahman. Let me remind the witnesses that under committee rules, they must limit their oral statements to five minutes, but your entire opening statement will appear in the hearing record. To begin your testimony, it should be uh pretty self-explanatory. Please press the talk button on the microphone in front of you. We do use timing lights. When you begin, the light's gonna turn green. Green means go. When you have one minute left, the light will turn yellow, and at the end of five minutes, the light will turn red, and I would ask you to please

Thank you, Ranking Member Chairman, Ranking Member and members of the subcommittee. My name is Frank Whiteclay. I serve as elected chairman of the Crow Nation, the Psologite people. I come before you today on behalf of more than fourteen thousand enrolled members who call the Crow Reservation home. I wanna begin by telling you who we are, because our history is inseparable from the barriers I am here to describe. The Psahlia people have lived along the Yellowstone River in what is now South Central Montana since before there was a United States. Our connection to this land is not a property in interest, it is our identity, our language, our clan system. Our ceremonies and our way of life were all formed here. The Treaty of Fort Laramie in eighteen fifty-one recognized a Crow homeland of more than thirty-eight million acres across what is now Montana and Wyoming. Today, after a century and a half of sessions and allotments and administrative reductions, our reservation is two point three million acres. We have lost more than ninety-four percent of our land base, the United States itself recognized as ours. And yet on that reduced land we have built a government, a culture, and a community that endures. Our ancestors made su- supreme sacrifices to keep us on this land. They negotiated with the United States in good faith. They fought to protect what was left. Every decision I make as a chairman, I make with their voices behind me. Every decision this committee makes about tribal natural resources, development lands in our communities, on our families, on our elders, on our children. That is why we are here, not as supplicants, but as a sovereign nation, asking that promises made to us be kept. For more than four decades, the Absalaga mine was the economic engine of the Crow nation. It was not just a mine, it was a community institution. It paid for our police department, it paid for elder services, scholarships that sent our young people to college and brought them home again as teachers nurses engineers accountants. Families planned their lives around it. Children grew up knowing there would be good work waiting for them. The mines expedited closure, driven by federal regulatory pressure and market conditions outside of our control, did not just shut down a business, it cut a community off at the knees. Approximately two hundred and seventy-five Crow members lost their jobs, jobs that paid fam- family sustaining wages in a region whose jobs do not grow on trees, tribal revenues from royalties and taxes collapse by thirty five million. Our unemployment rate, already far above the national average, climbed to a significant percent. And the human cost, the cost you cannot put a spreadsheet, was worse. Families who had been self-sufficient for generations suddenly could not pay utility bills. Young men and women who grew up expecting to work at the mine, like their fathers, grandfathers, now see no future on the reservation. Some have left, others have turned to despair, to addiction, to fentanyl and methamphetamine that the cartels are too eager to supply. I have said this before before the committee that the Crow reservation has become an unwitting corridor for transitional drug trafficking I'll tell you plainly the closure of the Absalaga mine made that problem worse when you take away community's economic foundation you do not just create unemployment, you create vulnerability. create conditions that predators exploit. And I want the committee to hear this clearly. The mine did not close because Crow Coal was no longer needed. It did not close because the Crow Nation failed in its storage ship. It closed because the federal permitting and regulatory environment made it impossible to sustain. When Washington decides that tribal resource development is too difficult to permit, it is the Crow children who go without. Compounding to the damage the Crow Nation was wrongfully placed on the Treasury do not pay list by the Biden administration based on invalid debts for critical period that blocked our access to federal grants in pandemic era. Programs we were otherwise eligible for. My administration has cleared the issue but will never recover those lost awards. That is money that should have gone to our people. It never has, but it's gone now. The second barrier is the national environmental

Thank you, Chairman White-Clay, for that testimony. Thank you, Chairman White-Clay, for that testimony. Uh, Um, next I would recognize Councilman Gallegos next I would recognize Councilman Gallegos from the Southern U- Indian tribe for five minutes. for the Southern U- Indian tribe for five minutes. Councilman. Councilman?

Good morning. Thank you, Chairman and Ranking Member Fernandez and distinguished members of the subcommittee. My name is Andrew Gallegos. I'm a member of the Southern Indian Tribal Council. Thank you for the invitation to appear before you today. Our tribe is in a good position to discuss tribal energy as our reservation sits right on top of the San Juan Basin, a rich source of natural gas. In the early nineteen fifties, the tribe began leasing to companies to develop our minerals. In nineteen s- in the nineteen seventies we began taking a more active role. We used new federal laws to better negotiate mineral development and agreements. In the nineteen nineties we bought a gas production company and a pipeline company and we started operating our own wells. As you can imagine, we encountered a number of barriers during that time, but we also had our share of successes. Energy development has given us economic strength. We've provided our memberships with jobs. health insurance and a college education. The tribe is the largest employer in La Plata County. To increase financial stability, we diversified by investing in real estate and non-energy businesses across the country. For the last twenty-five years, our message to Congress has been the same. The United States must r- remove the barriers it has created and allow tribes to voluntarily take on the responsibilities normally performed by federal agencies, like the BIA. Congress remove some of those barriers in the two thousand five five Energy Policy Act and the Hearth Act in two thousand twelve. The Hearth Act allowed tribes to approve some land leases without BIA review and approval, as long as the tribe had federally approved leasing regulations and environmental review process. After the BIA approved our regul regulations and environmental processes in two thousand twenty three we finally be we finally approved business, agricultural, residential, and renewable energy leases on our land. Even with the Hearth Act, however, we still could not approve leases for conventional energy development. We also couldn't approve rights-of-way. To fill those gaps, our next option was to enter into a tribal energy resource agreement, or TERRA, under the Energy S- Energy Policy Act. And TERRA gave us authority to negotiate energy, realty, leases, business agreements, and the rights-of-way without meeting without needing the BIA to review and approve. In theory, terras were a great option. But the application process was burdensome, and it was unclear what function a tribe would be allowed to take on. Congress passed amendments in two thousand seventeen that improve the terra process. And as mentioned, in two thousand twenty-five the Southern U Indian tribe became the first tribe to submit a terra application. And we s uh expect Interior to approve the terra early next month. However, even with the terra terra We still need Congress to grant us authority to appr approve non-energy rights away, like roads and fiber optic lines. We also needed Congress to address the suffocating impact of NEPA when applied on troubled lands. Passing the Speed Act would improve the tri- the tribe with a very useful tool. To be clear, we spent significant resources to ensure the energy development on the reservation is done while protecting the land. This is not only the right thing to do, but it's our duty to the land. The problem is tribal lands are held in trust by the United States, so all land use activities on tribal land requires federal approval. That means Indian tribes are subject to the same NEPA process that applies to federally public lands. As it stands today, NEPA allows people with no connection to our land to delay or defeat tribally supported projects for the use of of tribal trust resources. The Speed Act would help resolve this issue. For an any agency action that affects the use of tribal resources. court review would be limited. But in closing, the tribe appreciates Congress's actions to pass laws to increase tribal authority over how to use our own lands. The tribe supports the Speed Act language that limits the ability to impede or legally challenge tribally approved projects located on tribal trust lands from opponents with no connection to the area. And we'll continue to urge similar le legislation that supports self-determination in developing our natural resources. Thank you.

Thank you, Councilman Gallegos, for that testimony. The chair now recognizes Miss Martin for five minutes. Miss Martin.

Good day, chairman. Her ranking member led her Fernandez and distinguished members of the committee. Uh, thank you for this opportunity to speak. My name is Talia Martin. I'm an enrolled member of the Shoshone-Bannock tribes of Fort Hall, Idaho. On my maternal side, I am my family's or in Sandy's or the. of the Boise Valley or the sheep eaters and salmon eaters, but today I come to you as the Co-executive Director and Representative of the Tribal Energy Alternatives, which is an affiliate of Grid Alternatives. Uh, TEA is a Native-led organization, we're a non-profit governed by an all-native board of directors. Most of our staff also come from the tribal communities that they serve. Our mission is to partner with tribal nations across the country to bring renewable energy benefits, that advance their energy sovereignty goals and reduce energy costs, and strengthen community resilience. Since twenty ten, we have partnered with over seventy-five tribes in over nineteen states to provide tens of millions of dollars from philanthropic funding and stay in federal for tribal energy projects. We've also installed over eight megawatts of solar energy on residential homes tribal government buildings and community fill facilities while also investing in the local capacity building. It's evident in our workforce development work, where we provide solar education and trainings during in installs and with set stand-alone workforce development services benefiting over five hundred tribal members in total we truly believe the staff at TEA that the energy development should deliver direct benefits to tribal communities, including lowering energy costs, improving reliability, and preserving culture and the ways of life that strengthen tribal sovereignty. Uh, we hope that the tribal natural resources development also recognize that the energy system is forever changing. We're moving toward a more distributed, electrified, and dynamic grid, and we'd hate to see the shift leave tribes and risk them being left out of these system changes. For us, electricity is about r being affordable, reliable, and accessible. In our work with tribal partners, we consistently see barriers that limit the ability to develop energy projects on tribal lands. Some of these limited ac limited uh resources are capital, geographic constraints, and infrastructure constraints, as well as dueling priorities between the tribe and utility, as well as challenges in capturing federal incentives. These reflect structural gaps in how energy policy and financing utility systems are designed. They were not built with tribal communities in mind. Across our work we have supported tribal communities in deploying community scale solar. These projects range size from seven kilowatts to three hundred kilowatts often serving between five and forty-five homes per project deployed. Lot of our work has been concentrated in Washington, New Mexico and South Dakota, which is more favorable to solar and residential homes. Uh, in exa For one example, in Washington we have worked with tribal housing authorities and economic development programs to install solar systems. Uh, in total in Washington last year, we have deployed over four hundred and sixty-five kilowatts, which equates to about one h one point five million dollar in lifetime savings to those tribes in that state. In New Mexico we have also deployed over three hundred kilowatts last year, which will provide almost a million dollars in lifetime savings. We worked with several Pueblos as well, uh Pueblos that have actually worked with us during Solar for All, and because some that because that grant was terminated, a lot of those projects were abandoned and we worked to pursue other types of funding to continue those projects and make sure that they see the renewable energy benefits. Every project that we we install, we train tribal members through hands-on workforce development. ensuring that these benefits are long-lasting in long-term capacity for the tribe. These are not just pilot projects or one-time demonstration. They're meant to be replicable, cost-effective deployments with measurable benefits. We were one of six tribal wards that received solar for all, and we s received about sixty-two million to deploy. Seventy-two percent of that would have went directly to tribes. We went to the the program was designed to de p deploy fourteen megawatts of residential serving solar twenty percent savings and help over twenty nine hundred tribal households but the loss is more than five hundred million dollars, once that program was terminated. One of the recommendations that we do want to highlight today is making sure that federal investments are protected and are delivered to tribal nations, so that they can also pursue those energy projects. Um, we also hope that the committee considers a broader definition of what development means. And it shouldn't just be based on resource extraction, but also deliver tangible benefits to tribal households and communities. Thank you again for the opportunity to testify today, and I look forward to your questions. Oos.

Thank you, Miss Martin. The chair now recognizes Mister Amon for five minutes. Mister Amon.

Chairman Herd, um, uh, member ranking member Ledger Fernandez and distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for this opportunity. My name is Ken Amun. I am Chief Operating Officer of Calusa Indian Energy, a section seventeen corporation that is wholly owned by the Kashel Dehe band of Wintoon Indians of the Calusa Rancheria, a federally recognized tribe located in the Sacramento Valley of Northern California where the only tribally owned power plant and microgrid developer in the country I'm here on behalf of the Calusa Indian community to describe what the tribe has built and the federal barriers slowing further progress. The Colusa Indian community is a small tribe, not a major gaming operator. What they have is a proven track record of energy development, spanning more than twenty years. In two thousand five, the tribe built a co-generation microgrid, expanded it with solar and battery storage in twenty twelve, and has since completely rolled the incumbent utility, PG and E, completely off the reservation. This is the first tribally owned modern microgrid in the country. The microgrid now powers the casino resort, tribal members' homes, the government campus, water treatment plants, agricultural operations, and tribal businesses. There have been zero power interruptions at all since twenty twelve, making this little tribal utility authority a global leader in utility uptime. Meanwhile, the surrounding region of Northern California has suffered major blackouts and rolling failures. Today on the Calusa reservation, the tribe is installing a two megawatt battery energy storage system, exploring natural gas reserves to fuel the cogeneration plant, and developing an AI center of excellence campus with plans to expand to over one hundred megawatts. Colusa's progress however is not the norm. An estimated seventeen thousand tribal homes across Indian country still have zero electricity. Power outages uh rates on tribal lands are are more than six times the national average. The tribe founded Calusa Indian Energy to help other tribes replicate Calusa's model on their own reservations. Through Calusa's tribal energy training academy, we trained American Indian and Alaska Native technicians using the Calusa microgrid as a live training environment, to support other tribes in developing and operating their own energy systems. But Calusa's success came despite the federal system, not because of it. Six barriers continue to slow tribal energy development. First, NEPA. Most activities on trust lands trigger federal environmental review. The average environmental impact statement takes four and a half years to complete, before the leasing process even begins. One tribal leader estimates it takes forty-nine steps to develop energy on trust lands compared to four steps on private land. Second, grid interconnection. The tribe spent Over ten years in a legal battle with PG and E to acquire distribution lines that already existed. That failed. Uh, we ended up running our own underground distribution, and kicking PG and E off of the reservation. The standard transmission planning process runs five to seven years. No tribe and no private developer can build a business case around that time line. Third, EPA permitting and delegation. Pathways exist for tribes to assume regulatory authority, but the time intensive process functions as another barrier. Fourth, the land into trust process. Fee to trust applications take years and sometimes decades. Fifth, the Hearth Act was intended to reduce federal involvement in tribal leasing, but projects on tribal land still require additional permits triggering separate environmental reviews. The result is a fragmented permitting landscape across multiple agencies that the Hearth Act alone cannot solve. And sixth, a BIA BIA policy, not a statute, requires the secretary to personally review every single clean energy application submitted by a tribe. This bottleneck should be changed. Several provisions in H R four seven seven six, the SPEED Act, could provide meaningful relief. Clarifying that NEPA is a procedural statute, not a vehicle for mandating substantive outcomes, addresses a genuine pattern of agency overreach. The proximate cost standard would reduce the speculativa analysis that drives up costs and timelines. Reducing the statute of limitations for NEPA challenges to one hundred and fifty days would give project financing the certainty it requires. The bill's presumption of negative impact when a federal agency selects the no action alternative on tribal trust lands is particularly important. These reforms are a meaningful step forward, but this testimony is about more than any one bill. The regulatory barriers tribes face are not the product of malice, they're the product of a system that was not designed with tribally owned energy development in mind. It's time to redesign it. The Calusa Indian community is not asking for a new federal program or federal funding. We are asking Congress to remove the barriers that prevent tribes from building their own energy systems. Thank you, and I'm happy to answer any questions.

Thank you, Miss Rahman, for that testimony. The chair will now recognize members for five minutes questions and I will begin by recognizing the gentleman from North Carolina, Mister McDowell for five minutes. Mister McDowell.

Thank you, Chairman. Um, Mister Amon, I have a question for you just immediately following on your testimony, but i if there if it takes forty nine steps to approve a project on tribal land, and it takes four steps to approve it on private land, if you're a private investor, why on earth would you ever invest in a project on tribal lands.

Most don't.

And does that harm or help members of tribal communities?

Absolutely harms, not just for energy sovereignty, but um for the ability to develop economic development projects, um that can help tribes at least diversify away from gaming, if not um uh you know produce uh an alternative uh across the board for any and all economic development activities.

You operate in California, correct?

Yes, sir.

And would you say that energy is expensive and heavily regulated there?

You have to say you have to say the least.

W would you say that energy prices in California are typically high?

Listen, the tribe I work for refers to PG and E as Pacific greed and extortion for a reason.

Despite this, uh, Colusa has achieved zero power interruptions for over a decade.

Yes, sir.

So why did Colusa make the decision to tap into oil and gas reserves on tribal lands?

So, yeah, to be clear, the Colusa tribe is sitting on natural gas reserves, um no oil, um and the reason for that is an extension of sovereignty. So today the only outside utility that is maintained on the reservation is the natural gas uh distribution line that's coming in. And the tribe would prefer not to give PG and E a a penny of their money. And so exploring on-site gas reserves um is the final step towards true energy sovereignty.

What delays did you face when making the decision uh to do that? I guess w w w really what I'm asking is can you tell me what it looks like on the ground, when a tribe makes a decision to move forward with an energy project? How does it play out so slowly?

Sure. Yeah, well first, most importantly if a tribe is not Hearth Act certified then you get uh put into the BIA uh meat grinder uh of sorts where um yep just general permitting and responsiveness out of the BIA can be uh crushing to a project. Um if you are Hearth Act certified it helps for sure. The NEPA process uh number one uh by far and away uh what is inhibiting a lot of these projects from getting off the ground. Um, fractu uh, you know, having fractionated land, um, you know, trust versus fee versus allotted land, um, can make it incredibly difficult. And then finally, really, the fee to trust process. So, if you have fractionated land, then um, ideally, we help tribes identify um, you know, neighboring parcels that are not in fee, in order to acquire them and put them into trust, specifically for an energy development. And uh that process, you know, can take years if not decades.

How often do you see projects that are delayed because of over broad federal reviews or a a lack of coordination between agencies?

Every week.

That's great. That's just great. I mean we have to do better with that. Um in your testimony you said that tribes are not looking for the government to build the projects for them, but they want the government to get out of the way. And so if the Senate were to pass the Speed Act, would tribes be ready and willing to take advantage of of streamline permitting? Um and would this help lead to um you know, building a a stronger and more secure energy future f on tribal lands?

For the majority of tribes, yes.

Um Running out of time here, but Chairman White-Clay, I have a question for you. Um And I'll I'll close with this one, but is is the challenge that you face as the chairman of your tribe, is it a lack of resources or or willingness from tribal communities, or is it a permitting system that moves too slowly?

Um thank you for that question. It's permitting. It's regulatory. It's BIA quagmire. It's NEPA quagmire. It's We're not um sovereignty is in question when we have to go through all the acronyms for any type of movement on energy. And with every acronym it's a whole different process. And where we can consolidate all of these, most of these through the Speed Act would be a great benefit.

Mister Chairman, I would just urge the Senate to take up the Speed Act and yield back.

The gentleman from North Carolina yields. At this time the chair recognizes the ranking member of the subcommittee from the state of New Mexico, Miss Ledger Fernandez for five minutes. Miss Ledger Fernandez.

Thank you, uh, Mister Chair. And, uh, I wanted to start with, uh, the testimony from Miss Martin. Your written testimony, uh, what you spoke about was how the work you were doing was gonna bring down the cost of utilities for the tribal members you were gonna serve. Uh I think um if I recall it was a thousand three hundred dollars per household per year. In today's environment with rising prices, you know, the the is bumping prices up for utilities, for gas, for diesel, what does it mean to have these projects suspended because of the the pullback on funds, and how can you get them back into play. Like, are you gonna be able to to to get them done and save uh these tribal members this money?

Thank you, I appreciate the question. I think this is a a really hot topic for for all of us who are trying to fill in the gaps from federal incentives that are are no longer in existence. Just for a little context, the Solar for All grant required twenty percent savings. And we expected to exceed those savings by combining different federal s financial sources. Solar feral funding alone wasn't enough to to fill in the gaps. And so we we also proposed utilizing other types of sources, philanthropic access for um funding these projects, for technical assistance. So from that calculation we were able to propose that at least minimum thirteen hundred, or at least on average, thirteen hundred dollars would be saved annually per household. Uh unfortunately when that was terminated, we were also able to look at other funding sources that were still in existence through the state, particularly in New Mexico and Washington. There was still state funding available that these projects that were developed under Solar for All continue to see those those same estimates, or the same cost savings. So those are direct savings to the tribal tribal members, right, um that are already experiencing energy burden um higher than the national average. So state funding was something that we used to fill that gap. Uh we also had some philanthropy that allowed us to provide grants in these different areas and it was beyond the six states that we've proposed in solar for all, and so we were able to also pursue those projects. Um is it enough? Definitely not. We're hoping to see more. And and we're recommending that there is more federal incentives specific for tribes, because it was five hundred million dollars that was committed to and taken away. And so that was again nine to four million dollars in lifetime savings. And so we're hoping to again see that those type of federal incentives come back, as well as financial stacking that we're hoping to provide technical assistance to the tribes in order to take advantage this time around, um if there was ITC's or uh the tax credits that they can utilize. So we're hoping to see that.

Uh, thank you. And and what we're seeing is that renewable energy, even without subsidies, is still the cheapest form of electricity. It all depends on your situation of where you're at. I wanted to get to the issue of uh the Speed Act and I think that everybody on this dais on Republican and Democrat recognize that we have to overcome the burdens. It is not working and it is wrong for there to be so many burdens, extra burdens placed on tribes. Um I do have, when I when we were looking at the Speed Act, I'd love to have a conversation with you because I looked at it, and I looked at the requirement um that you could not bring any uh uh you you could not bring bring bring any judicial review if a comment uh was not both substantive and unique, submitted during the public comment period. And that worried me a lot because I know that for example uh I represent multiple tribes uh that might be neighbors with each other, each of those tribes for example might give the same comment, this mine will impact a a water source. So you have two tribes give the same comment, substantive impact on water source but they would n- be foreclosed from having any judicial review because that comment wasn't unique. I don't know if any of you had thought about that, but that's actually what the language says. It must be both substantive and unique, which means nobody else would have said it, which would preclude tribes, if you had multiple tribal members. Does that raise any concerns? I know uh Rep uh Councilman Guayaubo, you actually w spoke of that and I I don't know if you had looked at that aspect of it.

Yes, thank you for the question. Um. Congresswoman. We we have, and the way we interpreted that was y you're not gonna be uh pushed aside to not comment, but what the comments that we were trying to really impact is the ones that are really outside of the area outside of the the state even that bring concern, just because they're you know uh cared about the land, but where we're talking about is just limiting that, so if we are neighbors and it does affect you, you definitely have that that right to make a concern. So that's how we interpreted it.

Yeah, and I think that that that idea that people didn't want anybody, but that when you actually add the unique aspect, you are then you are then actually cancelling each other out. And from a legal perspective, and this is kind of what I did before I got here, uh you are really meaning that uh multiple tribal members, multiple tribes, would be uh no longer be able to raise those issues because of the word and unique, which is I think a problem. I had a uh I had a a a motion to strike that, so it could be substantive, which is I think what you're trying to get too. Uh unfortunately I didn't get a single Republican vote on it, maybe when it's reviewed again. And with that I've gone over my time and I yield back.

General Mon's time has expired. I think the intent of that was to remove form duplicative letters, but that's something that maybe we can talk about. So, um, which are gumming it up uh unnecessarily.

Yeah.

The gentleman from uh Michigan, Mister Wahlberg, is recognized for five minutes. Mister Wahlberg.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, and thanks to the the panel for being here. Um, Councilman uh Gallegos, um, let me ask you this. Uh, the Southern Utes experience shows that When tribes have the capacity to manage development, energy projects can support jobs, uh revenue and long-term economic opportunity for the whole community. From your perspective, how does tribal energy development translate into real workforce and economic benefits for southern Ute?

Thank you for that comment. Um, my answer to that would be, you know, having the tribe regulate and be the the one that uh oversees all of our compliances it makes us more sovereign as a as a tribe. And the economic value that it brings is the health and welfare of our membership. And of course, it's gonna add jobs uh to their surrounding communities and gra and their surrounding communities that are aren't o tribally owned um will or tribally owned or or not will benefit from the uh the success of future development.

How are those benefits impacted and limited when federal approvals take too long?

Well, thank you for that question, the follow-up would be if if the process takes too long, it lags for resources like education, health, and even uh funding for our tribal members. So at one point w uh we weren't able to um have some of those immunities for our members so the the delay would be the the delay to the members that benefit from those services.

Ho how how can we, the federal government, if it's possible, how can we fix that issue so that um um the time line actually supports investments, uh hiring and long-term planning for for the tribes?

Great question. Well, I think just uh approving the Speed Act and then um the the just relying on the part where tribes ha create their own regulation that's best tailored for that specific reservation, rather than use the NEPA review or environmental review that um isn't well-intended, but I think the tribes have each tribe has unique uh regulation and standards that best know how to fit that specific tribe.

Okay, okay, lo local control. Thank you.

Thank you.

Mister Amon, um your testimony uh describes Calusa as doing two things at once, building a real energy infrastructure and training people to operate it. Uh you highlight Calusa's tribal energy training academy and your efforts to help other tribes stand up their own utility authorities. And you described the Calusa model as a solution to energy problems facing Indian country. What makes the Calusa uh model workable uh for other tribes and what would it take for more tribes to replicate that kind of energy independence?

Thank you. Uh what makes the Calusa model workable I th I believe is that we take an all of the above approach, where the core of our our home microgrid is uh powered by stable base load uh natural gas fired cogeneration power plant with solar and battery supplementing. Um and so I like to say that every tribe is resource rich when it comes to energy, it's just a matter of identifying which resources uh they're rich in. Um so we are not a renewable energy company, we are a tribal energy company, so we we deal with tribes all across the country,

Yeah.

uh of the five hundred and seventy five. you know many have um oil and gas reserves, m um more uh of them do not, and so identifying um gas pipelines nearby, um available uh solar uh uh potential um uh all of the above, I think is really what makes our model workable uh for other tribes, and also the fact that um the the Calusa home microgrid was uh depended on virtually no federal funding. Uh, this was a financeable project, right? Um, and so not just looking for money from the feds, but looking for a long-term sustainable um option. What would it take for more tribes to replicate this? Um, ideally, like like the councilman said, uh, clearing the feds out of the way as much as possible, and um putting the permitting control uh in the hands of tribes. The the only other thing I'll mention is i i i helping to expand technical capacity across Indian country uh would also be a a great benefit.