Veterans Compensation COLA, Locating Unclaimed Veterans, PROVIDE Act

Feel like I should say something to the audience, since it's so quiet. Welcome to the Committee on Disability Assistance. Very stoic faces. You guys don't want me talking to you? Manon, how are you? Is it Miss Manon? Okay. Is the secretary in the room? He's hard to miss. There he is. Man, I'm sorry. How you doing? Good to see you, sir. Good to see you.

Good to see you.

Oh, you're not getting that in here. You earned the title. I'm gonna give it to you. Thanks for joining us today. We're gonna wait for um, mister to show up. He he is he in band?

I just said a title song.

Okay. Today we are considering three bills which we'll be, I will be asking unanimous consent to consider on block. All of these bills were considered in a legislative hearing in the subcommittee. In accordance with committee rules, the subcommittee has contacted the Congressional Budget Office seeking informal preliminary cost estimates each of the bills being considered today. These preliminary scores are only a range of potential costs. None of these bills included in the en bloc today include the offsets that would be necessary to move these bills forward through the full committee. Finding offsets ensures that we keep our financial house in order. We have an incredible privilege and considera- we have the incredible privilege and consideration uh with the uh on these reforms that will help the VA better serve veterans their families and the survivors for their the rest of their lives, and after. after service. Offsets are a central part of this process and I look forward to working with my colleagues on this committee committee uh moving forward. If we cannot find an offset unfortunately for a bill we will not be able to to consider it at the full committee mark-up. I look forward to working with my dear friend, Mister McGarvey, and members of the subcommittee to find reasonable offsets for these pieces of legislation I now recognize the distinguished member um Mister McGarvey.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, I'll save my comments for the on-blocker, you're back.

Thank you, sir. And now I ask unanimous consent to consider to en-block the following bills that uh do not have amendments. H R eighty-five fifty-two, the Veterans Compensation Cost of Living Adjustment Act of twenty twenty-six, H R nine zero zero six, locating our unclaimed Veterans Act and H R six five eight eight, the Provide Act. Hearing no objections to order, the clerk shall report the bills.

On block number one, H R

Bills are circulated in advance pursuant to committee rules. I ask that the readings of the bills be dispensed with and the bills be open to amendment at any point. Without objection so ordered, I recognize myself for a moment to say these bills would offs- uh these bills are not yet offset, but I look forward to working with my colleagues again. Um does any member wish to speak on any of the bills included in the en bloc?

I'll say something real quick.

Mr. Garvey?

Mr. Chairman, I support the three bills in the en bloc. We have HR eight five five two, which is a common sense bipartisan cost of living adjustment for our veterans and their families. HR nine zero zero six works towards better systems and inter-agency cooperation to identify unclaimed remains and give these veterans proper honors. This is a step in the right direction to better serve those who served us. And last but not least, we have H R six five eight eight, the provide act offered by our colleague, Representative Jimmy Jimmy Panetta. This bill seeks to help veterans experiencing hardships after natural disasters by offering them some wiggle room with their disability claims so they can receive faster financial assistance to rebuild their lives. We made a promise to give our veterans and survivors the best care we can, in life, in hardship, and death. I think that's what we are moving in that direction with today, and I yield back.

Thank you, sir. Do any members wish to offer amendments to any of these bills? Mr. Schill, if you recognize her.

Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanna, uh, reiterate the fact that every one of these that has a cost, our veterans alone, some set of our veterans alone will pay for it. Our three hundred and thirty million Americans do not know that. Uh, they think that is, it is tax uh, broadly tax-based. It is not. Some set uh, some set subset of our veterans will pay for every one of these bills, and I yield back.

Thank you, Mr. Self. Anyone else wish to speak on the on-block package? Do any members have amendments? Hearing none, I recognize our making of a motion.

Mr. Chairman, I move that on-block number one consisting of H R eight five five two, H R nine zero zero six and H R six five eight eight be forwarded favorably to the full committee.

There is a there is a motion to favorably forward the bills included in the on-block to the full committee. All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Aye. All those opposed say no. In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it, and the bill and the bills H R eighty-five fifty-two, H R nine, zero zero six and H R six five eight eight are favorably forward to the full committee. I ask an a- I ask an unanimous consent that the committee staff be authorized to make technical clerical and conforming changes to the bills favorably forward today hearing no objections so ordered and I thank the members for their attendance today and the subcommittee mark-up is adjourned. How was that one?

Three fifty-four.

Three fifty-four?

Three fifty-four.

All right.

Okay. Rit.

Uh, does secretary sit down?

Yes, sir. You'll give your opening remarks and you'll ask them to be seated. So.

So, committee will come to order, without objection the chair may declare a recess at any time. We thank our witnesses for being here today. We are taking a closer look at how our nation's veteran cemeteries are administ administered, uh, both within the United States and around the world. There are currently one hundred and fifty-seven VA administered national cemeteries across forty-four states and the territory of Puerto Rico. Veteran service members, spouses and dependents may be eligible for burial in a VA's national cemetery if that veteran or their veteran loved one was honorably discharged or died during service. VA also provides grant funds to states, territories and native tribes to establish and expand veteran cemeteries or improve and maintain existing ones. Since its creation, VA has awarded grants to over one hundred and twenty-four veteran cemeteries, Last fiscal year, these cemeteries interred a total of forty-three thousand seven hundred and five veterans and their family members. This is a shared responsibility VA holds with the Department of the Army, who administers Arlington National Cemetery, the final resting place for nearly four hundred and thirty thousand veterans and their family members. In fact, it was on the orders of a of Quartermaster General Montgomery Meigs, uh, that Arlington estate was first approved for the use of a cemetery, and it is was officially declared a national cemetery by on June fifteenth, eighteen sixty four. Ironically burial at Arlington was not always considered a hallowed honor, that uh it is today. Rather Arlington was designated as a national cemetery to ensure service members whose families could not afford a proper burial for their loved one, were laid to rest in a dignified place. Part of that effort was established part of that effort was the establishment of decoration day, first held in Arlington National Cemetery on May thirtieth of eighteen sixty eight. eight and the idea was simple, grand army of the Republic's posts would hold veterans parades and ceremonies with music flags and prayer decorating the graves of the fallen of the fallen, with flowers. In fact, the grand army of the Republic chose May thirtieth to ensure the availability of flowers in the springtime for all of our fallen soldiers, and in eighteen sixty eight the Commander-in-Chief John A. Logan issued his general orders number eleven, the local post should decorate the graves of those who had fallen in defense of our nation. with Flower Decoration Day would become known as Memorial Day. But it was not through proclamation alone that the tradition came to pass, but the hard work of the community organizers like the Women's Relief Corps and the Ladies Memorial Association. These organizations campaigned in local newspapers and did the work of bringing these cele- celebrations to their own towns, cities, and counties. And there is a lesson to be learned here, no doubt, that not just about the price of campaigning on the battlefield, but also the days that come after the campaigns to memorialize and remember our fallen. That kind of organization's engagement is a service that no amount of taxes can pay for and no amount of money can buy. And I want to thank the VSOs and the nonprofits that have come to join us in the audience, and those that will be testifying before us today. Despite its name, the National Cemetery Administration is not just about cemeteries, it's about maintaining a memory of service, monuments to the fallen, and honoring a culture of sacrifice. While Memorial Day has already passed, I bring up the story of Memorial Day because it b- connects well to our nation's next national holiday, That is rapidly approaching, of course, our two hundred and fiftieth birthday on the fourth of July. And this is especially important. It is also our independence day. Freedom and sacrifice are central to what we do. It m- it - it dictates what it means to be an American, what keeps those two values front and center, and mem- in memory and gratitude. That is what so much of the work done by this subcommittee is about, and gratitude in the face of sacrifice and our duty to those who have served, and the same commander John A. Logan also said about our nation's cemeteries that we should never let our cemeteries fall into vandalism or neglect, or let others think that we have forgotten the cost of a free republic. That was a shared mission and that and one that we the American Battle Monuments Commission or ABMC helps fill abroad. Uh because the story of our nation's veterans is not just on American shores but in the brave acts of our heroines our heroes abroad, ABMC maintains twenty-six American military cemeteries and thirty-one federal memorial monuments and markers across seventeen countries. For two hundred and fifty years our service members have defended our freedom, value and and interests across the globe, from from the Gettysburg battlefield to the Alamo's the Alamo gates and from the beaches of Normandy to the Coral Sea, the veterans' heroism knows no borders. I want to thank our partners from NCA, ABMC and the Department of the Army for joining us today, and I want to say a special thanks to my friend and my fellow veteran, the Honorable Sam Brown, Under Secretary for Memorial Affairs who is testifying for the first time before us in the subcommittee today. Sir, welcome. Uh, the NCAA has approval rating of ninety-eight percent out of one hundred. Outstanding jobs are based on feedback from our veterans and the families who have s- received their services. With that, I will le- yield to the ranking member for his opening comments.

Thank you, Chairman Littrell, and and good afternoon everyone. I appreciate you all being here today in front of this committee. Uh, I think this is potentially the most bipartisan committee in all of Congress. we agree on the mission of serving the men and women who served us, especially those who have been injured because of their service or those who have paid the ultimate cost in serving our country and keeping us safe and keeping us free um I know at NCA and given what the chairman just said of a ninety-eight percent approval rating um you all feel that way, and have a reputation of being one of the more nonpartisan agencies even within the VA which is uh oftentimes a more nonpartisan place. So today's hearing focuses on an extremely important topic, our veteran cemeteries. These are sacred places. They're hallowed grounds that honor service and sacrifice the full story of American's veterans. And today I wish the hearing could just be about that. Uh and I understand that some of the cemeteries and some of the things we will discuss today might not come under the exact jurisdiction of the NCA, but being that you are here and we're talking about cemeteries and the role that and preserving our veterans' legacy, their service, their sacrifice. I would be remiss if I did not bring up some of the politics that have seeped in to what's happening to our cemeteries and the memorial affairs of veterans. Our military cemeteries and memorials have not been above this president's campaign to remove any and every acknowledgement of our country's diversity, where it's sins and imperfections from public life. So today I think we have to confront some of those truths. The removal of exhibits highlighting the service of black Americans, the sidelining of women veterans, and the unnecessary politicization of what our veterans have done for all Americans. Service is service, and all of it deserves to be honored. So minority service members don't just serve minority citizens. Nor do women service members serve only women. Both serve all Americans. Uh women in fact, their veterans are the fastest growing group of veterans. They have earned their place, their honor, their recognition, excluding them from ceremonies and diminishing their contribution feeds a false narrative that somehow they didn't earn the same respect as their male counterparts. Black Americans have fought in every single war this country has ever been involved in even when they didn't share the same rights as their white soldier counterparts. So Service is service. But the administration's view that honoring one group of veterans somehow detracts from honoring another I think it's misguided. I think it's harmful. If you have visited one of our national cemeteries, you know that these are places of honor run by top-tier professionals who show true care and dedication for those interred there. The same is true for our ABMC profe- partners overseas. Their commitment to upkeep honor and education is unmatched. I just don't wanna soil any of the legacy of this committee of of your office within the VA of our veterans and our cemeteries themselves with politics. These veterans have earned their burial benefits through service and sacrifice. And honestly, I don't wanna see their legacies tarnished. George Pruitt's heroism in World War Two wasn't any less commendable or any less of a story worth telling than a white soldier's actions in liberating Europe. But it was only his story Only his story. A black American who gave his life attempting to rescue a fellow soldier, that was removed from an ABMC exhibit. Removed in part because he talked about the discrimination he faced when he got home. That discrimination was real. Our black veterans were not awarded the GI Bill. It was like winning the lottery. If they did get the GI Bill and they came home to my state of Kentucky, the University of Kentucky and University of Louisville were both segregated at that point. did not allow black students. In fact, it was twenty years after World War Two that black Americans in the South got the right to vote. It's not a part of our past we want to discuss, but it is part of our past, and it is true. The history and segregation of Jim Crow that defined George's life and so many of his fellow black service members is painful. But we cannot hide from those sins if we are not to repeat them. The Navajo Code Tracker story isn't any less worthy of telling, simply because they are a minority. they were critical to our success in winning World War Two. So today I hope to hear some nuts and bolts of government updates. Things like getting projects paid for, daily operational needs, partnerships that are proving beneficial, but I also hope to hear that we are honoring all of our veterans, regardless of their race or gender. And that we are telling their stories, their stories, that force us to reconcile the tragedies of our history with the better tomorrow towards which the American people have always strived. Our nation is not now, nor has it ever been perfect. But we've always had as our North Star what we are getting ready to celebrate on Saturday. The idea that all people are created equal, endowed by their creator with certain inalienable rights, among which are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. We hold those truths to be self-evident. Our military reflects the best of those values. It reflects the vast tapestry of American from all walks of life. And we undercut our greatness by selectively editing which American stories are deemed the right version of the American dream. So thank you all for being here. I look forward to today's hearing. And, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

Thank you, Mr. McGarvey. Uh, and thank the witnesses for be- witnesses, I'm sorry. Thank you all for being here today. Um. We have the Honorable Sam Brown, Undersecretary for Memorial Affairs, National Cemetery Administration. Mr. Brown, thank you. Mr. Robert D'Alessandro, I nail it.

That's it.

A practice. Acting Secretary for the American Battle Monuments Commission, MS Karen Durham Aguilera. I nail it. All right. Executive Director of Arlington National Cemetery Office of Cemetery Office of Army of S- Office of Army Cemetery S- Ma'am, how long have you been doing this? Nine and a half years? What a funny story. We have met before, well before I showed up in this place, and I'll tell you that now, after class. Um, I ask the witnesses please rise and raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you're about to provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? Thank you and let the record reflect that the witnesses have answered in the affirmative. Under Secretary Brown, you are now recognized for five minutes, sir, to uh present the testimony from the department.

Thank you, Chairman Luttrell, Ranking Member McGarvey, and members of the subcommittee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today on behalf of the National Cemetery Administration. The National Cemetery Administration carries one of the federal government's most sacred responsibilities, honoring veterans and their families with final resting places, that reflect the dignity of their service and sacrifice. Today, nearly five point three million Americans, including more than four million veterans, are memorialized in VA national cemeteries. Every grave site, every headstone, and every interaction with a family represents a promise fulfilled on behalf of a grateful nation. That promise is experienced by families during some of the most difficult moments of their lives, and is measured by the care, compassion, and professionalism they receive. That promise is sustained every day by the men and women of NCA. Our workforce, sixty-two percent of whom are veterans, themselves continues to d- deliver extraordinary service under increasing operational demands. Their dedication reflects a principle that has guided me since my service as a young infantry officer in the First Inch- Infantry Division, US Army. No mission too difficult, no sacrifice too great. duty first. That motto remains a North Star for my leadership. It reminds me that while our workforce will always answer the call, it is my responsibility to ensure that we have the people, the tools, training, and support necessary to succeed. Fulfilling NCAA's mission requires not only commitment from our employees, but stewardship from our leaders. However, today, the challenge before us is not one of commitment. The challenge is ensuring that this sacred mission has the people, support, and operational resilience necessary to endure for generations to come. America's promise to veterans depends upon the strength of the workforce entrusted to carry it forward. I have said before that America does not forget her heroes. Those words carry a responsibility. They require us to ensure that every eligible veteran receives a dignified burial, every family is treated with compassion and respect, and every national cemetery remains a wor- remains worthy of those we are entrusted to honor. Fulfilling that promise requires action. That is why NCAA is strengthening outreach, expanding pre-need eligibility determinations, improving digital tools and working closely with veteran service organizations, states and tribal partners and community stakeholders. Our goal is not simply eligibility, it is awareness, understanding and access. To achieve that goal, we are modernizing operations, improving systems and empowering leaders throughout the organization to make informed decisions closer to the point of service. These efforts are designed to remove barriers, support the field, and keep our focus where it belongs, serving veterans and their families. But maintaining these national shrines requires rigorous standards, thoughtful stewardship, accountability, and continued investment in our workforce. As we look to the future, We must remain focused on ensuring NCA has the people, partnerships, and capabilities necessary to sustain this mission for generations to come. America's promise to veterans does not end when a veteran, uh, when a veteran and a headstone is set in place. In many respects, it is that moment that our responsibility as a nation becomes most visible. Why? Because within these sacred places, the legacy of the fallen continues to guide the living. Our national cemeteries are more than burial grounds. They are places where America remembers, learns, and renews its understanding of service, sacrifice, and shared responsibility. They remind us that freedom has never been free, and that every generation inherits an obligation to those who came before. In preserving these sacred places, we do more than honor the past. We help shape the character and future of our republic. We remain committed to honoring every veteran with dignity, serving every family with compassion, and preserving the sacred trust for generations to come. Thank you for your continued support and oversight. I look forward to your questions.

The written statement of Under Secretary Brown will be entered into the hearing record. Miss Del- Mister D'Alessandro, you are now recognized for five minutes to present the testimony of the American Battle Monuments Commission.

Chairman Littrell, Ranking Member McGarvey, and other members of the subcommittee, thank you for having us here today. Our sacred work of memorializing our nation's service members and veterans in cemeteries around the world is our singular mission. It's to honor the service, achievements, and sacrifices of members buried or commemorated at our sites. ABMC operates twenty-six U. S. cemeteries, overseas and thirty-one federal memorials, monuments and markers in seventeen countries, each a permanent expression of the nation's gratitude. Our mission differs in an important way from other federal entities responsible for military veteran cemeteries. With the exception of three memorials in the United States, all our sites are overseas, and unlike the national cemeteries, nearly all of ABMC's cemeteries only honor the war dead. We're close to new burials, allowing our focus to remain the perpetual preservation of historic sites and the stories they represent. As you know, ABMC's cemeteries and memorials are among the most beautiful and meticulously maintained commemorative sites in the world. They're completed works of civic art, intentionally designed to honor sacrifice and inspire reflection. Our locations welcome millions of visitors each year. And in addition to maintaining these places to the highest standards, we're entrusted with ensuring that the service and sacrifice of those we honor continues to be understood and remembered for generations. For many families, the distance created by overseas burial makes it difficult to regularly visit and tend the graves of their loved ones. So in May, we launched a new flower program. Now families and supporters can order flower arrangements for placements at any of our cemeteries and three U S memorials. At our cemeteries, more than seven thousand five hundred headstones mark the graves of unknown Americas. We work closely with DPAA and support one hundred and seventy-five disinterments annually. This month, we completed four disinterments of unknown remains at Florence American Cemetery, bringing the agency's total to nearly eight hundred throughout its history. This is a reminder of our commitment, our nation's commitment, to bringing everyone back. With a similar interest to a c- accurate historical remembrance ABMC partners with Operation Benjamin, an organization dedicated to identifying and correcting cases of Jewish service members that were incorrectly buried between Latin crosses, rather than stars of David. Only two ABM cemeteries remain open to new burials, Corozal American Cemetery in Panama and Clark Veteran Cemetery in the Philippines. To ensure that Corazol remains capable of serving future generations, ABMC is developing a comprehensive long-range plan focused on preservation, infrastructure improvements, burial operations, and future capacity. At Clark Veterans Cemetery, which had sur- had suffered significant damage, it came under ABMC's management in twenty thirteen. The transformation that followed stands as one of the most remarkable restoration achievements in ABMC. ABMC also recognizes an equally important responsibility to ensure the stories of those we commemorate continue to be understood and remembered for generations. We partnered with VA to further expand the Veterans Legacy Memorial, adding two hundred thousand memorial pages of fallen service members to our sites. We've enhanced our on-line databases, on-site touch screen kiosks, giving visitors better access to explore these burial records. ABMC offers lesson plans, educational briefings, interactive digital maps, and other classroom resources to bring the stories of America's overseas military service into schools and communities in the United States. And through partnerships with organizations like the Smithsonian American Art Museum National Park Service National World War I, and World War II museums, we encourage reflections about services. Additionally, we operate ten visitor center. These are equipped with a professional team of interpretive guides, not just to convey historical facts but encourage reflection. Ultimately, ABMC's educational and interpretive work reflects a simple but enduring principle. Remembrance requires more than preservation alone. Mister Chairman, in closing, I want to thank you and the subcommittee for your continued interest in the care of our sites, where so many of our nation's fallen sons and daughters are buried and memorialized. Our charge remains timeless. The time will not dim the glory of their deeds. This concludes my statement. I would be pleased to answer any questions the subcommittee has.

Thank you, sir. The written statement of Mister D'Alessandro uh will be entered into the hearing record. Mister Aguilera, you are now recognized for five minutes to present the testimony of the Department of the Army.

Chairman Littrell, Ranking Member McGarvey, and distinguished members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to discuss efforts by the Office of Army Cemeteries or OAC and Army National Military Cemeteries or ANMC to memorialize our veterans. On behalf of our dedicated military and civilian professional workforce and the Department of the Army, we appreciate the support provided by Congress over these many years. The Office of Army Cemeteries' mission is to provide oversight and expertise for all army cemeteries through policy, program management, inspections, training and assistance, honoring those who laid to rest in perpetuity on army owned property. OAC provides management oversight for eleven department of war cemeteries and thirty-two army cemeteries, and the two army national military cemeteries, which are Arlington National Cemetery and the US soldiers and airmen's home National Cemetery. where our team serves the American people by laying to rest those who have served our nation with dignity and honor. Simultaneously, we provide a living history that educates and inspires millions of visitors each year. As a living memorial, we are reminded daily of the sacrifices of those few who have answered our nation's call. Demand for burial at A and C remains at a pace of twenty-four to twenty-seven funeral services each weekday. During fiscal year twenty twenty five, we interned over fifty two hundred service members, veterans and eligible family members with over sixty two hundred requests for burial. Demand for internment at our international cemetery remains high, but space is finite. In twenty eighteen, we opened the Millennium expansion. Today, we have used approximately thirty percent of that available burial space. We're excited about our ongoing southern expansion. This project consists of three overlapping phases, scheduled to be complete in twenty twenty nine. and will add over eighty thousand new burial opportunities. But this expansion alone will not keep A and C open to new internments beyond the early twenty sixties. Without a change in eligibility, Arlington National Cemetery will close to new burials within forty years. Sooner should a major conflict result in a change in demand. However, as our partners at the NCA tells us, Arlington is only one of many final resting places for our nation's veterans and their families. In addition to cemetery oversight, OAC leads an initiative known as Right to the Fallen. Through outreach, education, and engagement with federal and state entities, we work to prevent the unnecessary, deliberate disinterment of the remains of service members from the eighteenth and nineteenth century conflicts with the United States. Everything ensures that inadvertently disinterred service members' remains are treated with respect, and rapidly re-interred in an appropriate site. They can guarantee both accountability and perpetual care. This effort has been even more poignant as we embark on our nation's two hundred and fiftyth birthday. Every year at Arlington National Cemetery we honor those that have made the ultimate sacrifice during the National Memorial Day observance. This year we hosted several events open to the public. Visitors had the opportunity to lay flowers to the tomb of the unknown soldier and to attend the extended Memorial Day observance, connecting them with their tradition of military sacrifice. Looking ahead, both OAC and A&MC remain engaged. with the veteran population as well as our partners at the NCA, the ABMC, and many others. Our teams collaborate with the NCA on many fronts, most recently as we pursue a shared automated burial system record. The Department of Army Enterprise and Termin Services system assures one hundred percent accountability from eligibility to perpetual commemoration. It's the web service technology, geospatial mapping, and symmetry management components which allow modern management of all functions of cemetery operations. We look forward to working with Congress, our partners at the VA and ABMC, our military service and veteran service organizations, and the American people to sustain Army cemeteries, honor our nation's heroes for generations to come, while simultaneously providing education, outreach, oversights, and guidance wherever we can. Chairman Littrell, American Member McGarvey, distinguished members of the subcommittee, this concludes my statement. I look forward to respond to any questions you may have. Thank you.

The mi- written statement of Mr. Aguilar will be entered into the hearing record. Well now Mr. Chairman, I wanna start with my questions, my question's gonna come your way. I'd like to chat about the caisson platoons. First of all, I would like to know how that's going, uh, from where we were last time we were together. I'd like to know what the build-out looks like for where we're keeping the ponies. Are we, have we increased our caisson count? Are we manned up properly? Uh, just if you wouldn't mind giving me a kind of a It doesn't have to go completely deep, but let's give it a kind of a deeper level brief. But I will add this before we get into this, just talk to us. I'm gonna ask you a series of questions. I'm just begging you, don't. One thing that we do not tolerate in this committee is political talk. I'm just gonna forewarn you before he gets ahold of everybody, okay? That's just something that he and I adamantly agree on. So if we could just, if you don't have an answer to my question, just say I don't have the answer to that question. You don't have to run down a road that I'd get lost on me, but please.

Thank you, Chairman. Good thing I'm not a political appointee.

What's that?

So, regarding the caisson update, uh, as you recall, last year we were able to restart the caisson supporting advance in June. We met several times as we were getting ready for that, particularly at the new stables. Since then we've been supporting two caisson supported services a day, each weekday, for those that are eligible for honors with escort.

So we're doing two barrels, two caisson

Two caisson supported services a day.

determines a day? Okay, do we have two full caisson platoons or three?

We have two.

We have two?

We have two that have been providing that, yes.

Yes, ma'am. Do we have three fully functional caisson platoons? If I remember correctly, we couldn't start the caisson burials until we had three full working caisson platoons. Is that correct?

Well, it is. But it actually right now there's four

Even better.

that are even that are training and getting ready to be able to provide four caisson supportive services a day later this fall.

Will the amount of internments increase once that fourth platoon is activated?

It will not, because we provide a variety of services at Arlington, everything from the military honors with escort That's the marching element, the band, the can of cannons of of those eligible for it, rifle volley, caissons at conveyance. So whether someone has a caisson or not, we still provide the same number of services. We also have dependent honors and then we have the regular full military honors. That pace, that demand is unrelenting and it's not dependent on how many caissons are available to support.

I would have we kind of backfilled that void on how many heads of horses that we have in the caisson platoon, cuz if i remember our discussions last time, we were still trying to find the ponies globally. Have we

Well,

found a proper breeder specifically for these caisson platoons?

the So I'll defer more specifics to MDW,

OK.

but MDW tells us that they have four caisson platoons. In fact, we've even see them training because they come in before we open. So that they'll be ready to stand up to provide four caisson supported Services a day. Beginning this fall.

Four day.

Four day, not not two.

Okay, that's where I was going with that, okay.

Yes.

As far as the um. The horse barn and the paddocks and the and all the kind of prep area they were refurbishing. And building out. How are we looking there?

So I've been to what they call the ca- the uh, Quezon village.

And that's offsite, correct?

No, that's the one that's at Meyer.

Okay, all right.

There was a new caisson village that was at Meyer that was built and stood up before we were able to restart it at Arlington and it is great. It's with the sizes that the herd needs as well as all the nutritional things,

Is that where they're staying?

et cetera. That's where they're staying.

Okay.

There's so there's some they're staying there that that are at at um supporting Arlington and then they have the others off-site on the arrangements they have, with their uh equestrian stuff.

As far as the caisson, the the men and women that are in the caisson platoon, I may be making this up, but I think they're not there's not a c- like a there's not like a case on MOS. And there is there is now.

There is now. Yes, brand new, brand new.

OK, so we did do that.

Because the military has or the army has military working equines. And so there is a new MOS that was uh created. In fact, on the army birthday, I attended a a uh great ceremony in the Pentagon that officially recognized and stood up that case that that uh equestrian MOS. Really exciting.

Outstanding, great. Um, thank you.

Thank you.

Mr. Garvey.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you all for being here. Thank you, Under Secretary Brown, for being here. Um, you know, I wanna say that you're the only Under Secretary who's come visit me in my office. That doesn't go unnoticed. Very much appreciate it. We appreciate the way you are are working with us on this. So I got a couple of questions to start off with you, and I will tell you, sometimes you go in front of a committee and they ask you questions to which they already know the answers. It's a great line in a Jason Isbell song, he says your questions like directions to the truth. This is not what this is. These are actual questions uh that I don't know the answers to, and we'd like to just get a little bit of information on. Uh, according to the most recent VA workforce dashboard, NCA lost ten percent of its caretaker workforce in fiscal year twenty six. How is this impacting service?

Um, fortunately, we've got an incredible workforce, as you mentioned earlier. Um, ranking member that we've got a ninety eight out of a hundred score. Um, and and so I just major, um, appreciation for the team that will not let the mission fail. So in terms of the the services that veterans and their family members, uh, receive, um, our team is is so committed to the mission, and in part because, again, we've got the highest percent veteran workforce population in all of all of federal government. Um, we're we've dropped just below sixty-five percent, we're about sixty-two percent right now, but it's that kind of camaraderie, those, you know, the brothers and sisters in arms that are out there delivering those services to family members and veterans, you know, Monday through uh through Friday and, you know, working some overtime ahead of some of the big ceremonial weekends. So that's the good news. Um, but there is some challenges that have come with that and um, you know, we've got um many hours of overtime that are being worked for us to accomplish this mission. Um, we've got a a workforce that uh that has experienced, you know, some some some stress and and we're seeing some you know some of that manifest um but uh the VA is is responding and and and helping us get towards what we're calling a a thirty day um hiring program and and we're we're right in the in the beginning of that there is there is a high demand for us to be able to kinda go fill those caretaker spots and that's our highest priority in terms of all the positions that we have are those front line what we call field workers.

Yeah oh great that that that is good to hear and um Uh and I appreciate you saying that there's overtime and look y- we know how hard everybody works and we know what happens if something gets left uncared for, right? I mean the people who who visit these cemeteries, they're the they're our cemeteries, right? And people care a lot about them and rightfully so. Um you mentioned overtime you mentioned you're you're about to hire. Has there been any maintenance that's been put off because of this? Uh have there are there any other needs that you are seeing, especially in front of this committee? We wanna take care of our veterans in the cemeteries there i- as a result of the the reduction in force that maybe you guys need or we could help with.

Y- you know, that's that's a very fair question. And um and so the the nature of our work being outdoors and and working with the ground, um there there's always going to be maintenance issues that come up. I'll give you kind of a sort of a rule of thumb, a way to think about it. Whenever we place a headstone, for example, minding you, the soil can be different from place to place across the country. But in general, that headstone is going to move out of what we consider compliance in terms of its, you know, its its height and its alignment about every eight to ten years.

Hmm.

And so it needs to go back and be manually kind of either nudged or lifted, um, you know, somehow realigned into plum with the rest of the headstones there. Um, that is an ongoing issue that, uh, that is kind of cumulated over time as we've had to kind of go into, you know, some overtime money that takes you know, we might have to reduce the amount of contract money that we're spending to go out and adjust and and you know get contractors out there to make those adjustments. So there has been some implication, we've seen some of those standards that that that don't get met um as well as, you know, just our facilities um our our, you know, some of our facilities are getting old um and when they we have breakdowns uh it's, the mission will always get uh will get funded and the and the families will get the services they deserve and um but uh our facilities in some cases need need more attention in repair.

Thank you, and please keep in touch with us on that. You know, it worries me. Nobody up here likes waste, fraud and abuse. It worries me when we hear we know the demands on our cemeteries, uh, that we have a shrinking workforce potentially. I'm glad to hear you're hiring, but relying on that in the years to come, I think it opens the door. You you you talked about the stress on the on the employees. Uh, uh, I don't wanna see an attritioner or any uh our care fall by the wayside in these cemeteries. I appreciate you doing that. Um, just very quickly, Mister D'Alessandro, I wanna move to you. Uh, it seems our veteran cemeteries abroad are not immune to some of the politics I talked about in my opening statement. Case in point, the removal of markers honoring black World War Two veterans in the Netherlands. Foyer requests revealed their removal was tied to executive orders on DEI, and ABMC said at the time the telling of segregation did not fall within the commemorative mission. Um, I just wanna know what is the status of those current markers, um, and why is sharing the experience of black service members not part of the mission?

Uh, Ranking Member McGarvey, I'm really glad that you asked me that question because I don't think all the reporting on it has been particularly fair. Um, the previous secretary did remove that panel, and I'm not blaming my predecessor, I'm being as honest with you as I absolutely can. Uh, that panel was forced into ABMC by a previous ambassador who basically demanded that it was put up. Um, it spoke about an individual who did not perished during the war, his service was worth talking about in the right place. But my initial pushback on that panel was that it highlighted the wrong unit. It it had a unit that was at ABMC working at what would become an ABMC cemetery, but it had a unit that was there for two weeks versus a unit that was there for two years, a unit that was also African-American working there. I had said uh in reply to some of this that we have ten thousand people buried at our cemetery in the Netherlands. We have very little exhibit space. Of those, a hundred and seventy-four of them are African Americans. You can pick any one of those people and we would be delighted to tell that story. I'd love to tell that story. But we picked a guy who survived the war and talked about civil rights. In a limited exhibit area, it was the staff's opinion that that was just the wrong thing to do. Now let me bring you up to date. Since then we have re-installed a panel that talks about African Americans in the Netherlands, which we are quite proud of, which our historians put together. The old panel, the language, was quite frankly forced upon us. We have nine new panels of which a full half of them talk about African Americans at the cemetery, and fifteen in place already that will rotate. All of these talk about diversity. So I would argue that what happened here was almost the reverse. And - and I - I think that ABMC uh really operated above board on this. So that's - that's where I stand.

No, thank you. I appreciate that explanation and I'm out of time but would love to talk with you about the panels that are up and see those and - and appreciate your explanation. Thank you. You're back, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, great to see all of you again here, uh, especially Under Secretary Brown. We, we, uh, we just appreciate all of, all of your all services service. Um, I want to spend a few minutes on the National Cemetery Administration's citing criteria for new cemeteries. NCA Directive three thousand one sets a strategic goal of giving ninety-five percent of veterans quote " reasonable access" end quote " to a burial option within seventy-five miles of an open national cemetery or VA funded state cemetery." Seventy-five mile radius assumes something close to a straight line or a normal road grid. In the upper peninsula of Michigan, where I live, that radius drawn from um let's say Holly to or Augusta doesn't even come close to clearing the Mackinac Bridge. Uh, but could you tell us whether that seventy-five mile threshold is measured as straight line distance or actual drive time and road distance?

Uh, Congressman, to be as uh as just straight shooting as we can, at this committee I commend it for doing that. Um, it is a straight line measure. Um, so it is a radius um around a point. Um, but I think that what your question is getting to is is a is a fair question. I just wanna say that this this objective helped provide the direction that has allowed us to achieve nearly a ninety-five percent access within seventy-five miles.

Well, w- y- let me I'd I'd you know, I m- I appreciate I'm not gonna cut you off, but you're you're right on. The the point is bell curve at best eighty-four percent. So if you got ninety percent, you're better than the bell curve and there are it's just natural to have exceptions

right.

so you got it ninety percent right um so uh it's in that case you know if it is a if you will a straight line is it we can pretty much agree that uh the real burden on veterans in a place like the upper peninsula where there is no direct route there is no there is no metric to to measure it kinda it kinda puts them at uh at risk. Um does the NCAA's methodology have any flexibility to account for geography like this, or is that seventy-five mile standard applied all the time regardless of terrain?

Congressman, our our current methodology does not provide flexibility, but I think um what you're getting at is uh illustrates that there's an opportunity better and as we've approached that ninety five percent uh threshold um it's something that we are internally looking at are there ways that we can modify our our objective, um you know as a potential example. VHA measures appointment time based off drive time as opposed to miles um it's something that uh that you know we're looking at those sort of measures as well. Also acknowledging that in some very urban environments, seventy five miles might take you three hours to drive. versus a rural environment where it might be just over an hour.

It, you know, on an on another metric, I understand that NCA also applies a veteran population threshold for new construction. So if a region falls under that threshold but is isolated enough that no existing cemetery is realistically reachable, is there any flexibility to weigh that isolation alongside population?

Congressman, in our in our current uh order, um, the the flexibility would have come in what we call the rural initiative, of which we're about to complete our seventh one in in Elko, Nevada. Um the uh you know, specific to Michigan um the the rule there allows us to consider a much smaller veteran population for these rural initiatives, if there's not already a national cemetery in the state. Um.

So you just answered my next question, cuz if a region falls under that threshold but is isolated enough that no existing cemetery is realistic, is their flexibility. What I think I just heard you say was yes. Is that correct?

Well, it's there's there's no flexibility under our current rule because for Michigan for to be specific, there's already a national cemetery in Michigan, so

Okay.

so the flexibility um that applied in another state like my home state of Nevada, there was no national cemeteries at all, so we were able to look at a rural area with a very small veteran population relatively speaking, and say we could put a a rural national cemetery there. That unfortunately would not apply to Michigan.

OK, well what I'm looking for is there is there a way, just Michigan being an example, I'm sure there are other examples that we we wanna make sure that all of our veterans and their families are appropriately served. Uh, would you be willing to have NCA take a look at whether drive time or isolation factors could supplement the current distance and population thresholds? using again in my case the upper peninsula as a case study

Congressman I I commit to you that that we will certainly look at that it is our our objective is to make um national cemeteries or a veteran cemetery through our state partners tribal or territorial as accessible as possible uh but it's also limited uh to appropriations and and we have to be the best steward we can of that um but I would say that you're you're not completely unique we have you know US territories that also uh could benefit uh from a national cemetery that um you know we just we have to be able to have the appropriations to meet the the policy to be able to do that.

Thank you. Miss Chairman, I yield back.

Thank you Chairman Luttrell and Ranking Member McGarvey. I really appreciate your leadership and your shared um partnership in holding this important hearing and ensuring all of our veterans are properly honored. Thank you to our witnesses um Under Secretary Brown it's good to see you again. I'm gonna start by honoring a veteran from my district, Major General Jean Holm, a pioneering military leader and advocate for women in the armed services. She joined the military in nineteen forty-two, earned her officer commission in nineteen forty-three, and later transferred to the Air Force, serving in key roles during and after World War Two. As Director of Women in the Air Force, she expanded opportunities for women, modernized policies, and played a central role in opening more military careers to them. She broke historic barriers when she became the first woman in the United States Air Force to be promoted to Brigadier General in nineteen seventy-one and later the first woman in the US Armed For- Forces to reach the rank of Major General. She retired in nineteen seventy-five after a distinguished career. After retiring, she continued advocating for women's equality in government and authored influential works on women in the military. So I'm gonna ask each of you just a quick yes or no question. Major General Gene Holm embodies exactly the kind of service the VA, Arlington National Cemetery, and Army National Military cemeteries are charged with honoring every day. Would you agree? We'll start with secretary or undersecretary Holm.

Yes.

And Mr. um Aguilar.

Yes.

And Mister D'Alessandro.

Yes.

Great. And that is precisely why I was planning to honor her, Major General Holm, at the twenty-eighth annual bipartisan women's caucus wreath layering laying at Arlington National Cemetery earlier this month. Mister Amagulara, can you help me understand why that event was canceled this year following notification that the Navy, Air Force and Space Force would not attend?

Thank you, Rep. Dexter. So, other than being the the place or international center that provides the venue all the information I have as to why it was canceled is what I read in the media.

Okay. The stated reason was compliance with anti-DEI executive orders and Department of Defense guidance. A nearly three decade long bipartisan event honoring fallow fallen service women was canceled for political reasons. And I find this entirely unacceptable. Mister Amagular, what is the Army's policy when it comes to specifically honoring women and min minorities at Arlington National Cemetery?

Thank you, Rep. Dexter. We honor everyone through service. For example, you can go into our education curriculum, our web site, or you see explore, you can look at World War One, you can find Tuskegee Airmen. I mean, sorry, World War Two you can find Tuskegee Airmen. You go World War One, you c- you can find Harlem Hellfighters. If you look at Statesman you can find Colin Powell who made such a mark on me when I, when I was a young engineer. So we, everyone that we described there, we tell their stories through their service.

I appreciate that. And I understand that you are not a political appointee and, and you can't control all of all of this, but I just appeal to my colleagues that it is egregious that a bipartisan twenty-eight year um annual event um is cancelled for political reasons and it disallows our ability to honor our veterans and and that is exactly what i hope we're gonna continue advocating for here in a fair and bipartisan manner. And with that i yield back.

Uh thank you Mister Chairman. Uh welcome secretary, good to see you again. Uh i'm going to uh In the interest of time, I was going to ask you about uh your expanded outreach, uh what measurable, what measures do you use to indicate outputs? Because everyone in the government likes to talk about their inputs, uh and I often ask about outputs, so what measurable criteria do you have to show us? And if you'd like to answer that in writing, I would appreciate it, but in the interest of time I'm gonna move to your, to colleagues. Mister D'Alessandro, uh, ABMC has maintained our overseas military cemeteries for over a cemeta- uh, for over a century. What do you consider the greatest threat in the next ten to twenty years, given the changes in Europe that we are seeing in the governments? What, well, what do you consider the greatest threat to our overseas cemeteries?

Thank you for that question. Um, I believe our greatest threat isn't from overseas countries. Uh, we have great relations with our partners overseas, uh, and and the country team in each of the countries we operate in. I actually think our greatest threat is two different things. I think one of them is the aging workforce. So, we have a workforce that is quite mature. Um, we have a problem hiring younger people, and - and when I'm talking about that, I'm talking largely overseas employees, not government civilians. A large majority of ABMC i- is our our overseas local hires.

Okay, take another thirty seconds, please.

Oh, God. Uh We've just gotta maintain the workforce, keep their interests. Many of these people are are multi-generational, so we're losing that, because a lot of people don't like these working outside labor-intensive jobs.

Okay, very good, and I will point out we have a we have a history lesson here uh because when de Gaulle ordered the NATO forces out of France, I believe it was John Foster Foster Dulles that asked him if he included the American cemeteries like the one over the D-Day beaches. Uh so I I would just uh ask you to watch the movement in Europe. Uh Miss Durham Aguilera, um you've testified that you're gonna be the southern expansion has got us till twenty sixty or so. Uh Congress has uh uh told you through the twenty nineteen NDAA to be effective for the hundred and fifty years. How are the plans for that and what does that look like? Do you ca- do you have an update for us?

So thank you, Rep. Self. Uh so in that uh twenty nineteen NDAA we did do uh draft rule making, put that out for public comment.

Mm-hmm.

And then after we were uh going through and adjudicating the comments, previous administration decided not to move forward with it. So with this administration uh we are re-looking at it again, and I can't give you a timeline as to when and if that's going to happen.

OK, I would uh I would suggest that uh you you you do that because twenty sixty is right around the corner for for getting something in place to uh to be effective for the next hundred and fifty

Thank you, Mr. Self. I would personally like to thank the three of you for doing uh amazing work at your departments. Really happy to hear about the case on platoon. I was kinda that one was a heavy rucksack to carry around when I when I first took this chairmanship. Um, thank you for being forthright and forthright and answering our questions. I gotta tell you, it makes our it makes this committee very happy when we we can engage with with you all that are that are testifying in front of us uh Mr. McGregor do you have anything for closing?

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I echo those comments.

First panel is excused. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. Everyone ready? Mister Lyle, I gotta tell you. Twice in less than a week. Why don't you just run for Congress? You can hang out here all you want. You're s- uh either a glutton for punishment or just full of information. Um. Well, I'll start with you, Mister Liles. I'm National Director of Legislative Affairs of the American Legion. Thank you again. It's good to see you again. Uh, it's Ryan Manion, Chief Operations Officer for the Travis Manion Foundation. Thank you for coming to our committee today. Uh, and Mister Shane LeGron, uh, Director of State Veterans Cemeteries of the Kennedy Department of Veterans Affairs. So, thank you. Uh, I ask the witnesses please stand and raise your right hand. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you're about to provide is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help you God? We good, Mr. LeGron? Outstanding. Thank you, and let the record reflect that the witnesses have answered in the affirmative. Mr. Lyle, you are now recognized for five minutes.

Well, uh, thank you, Chairman Luttrell, Ranking Member McGarvey, and distinguished members of the subcommittee. On behalf of National Commander Dan K. Wiley and more than one point five million dues paying members of the American Legion, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. Paraphrasing President Garfield, we do not know all the promises they made, all the pledges they gave, or the words they spoke, but we do know they summed up and perfected by one supreme act the highest virtues of American citizens. The American Legion has long been a champion of keeping our national cemeteries monuments and memorials, the foremost global example of how a country should honor service members after death. And we believe that all organizations and units within the National Cemetery Administration, the American Battle Monuments Commission, and the Department of the Army are, by most measures, doing excellent work. NCA earned a satisfaction score in twenty twenty-five, which was the highest ever recorded. ABMC meticulously maintains cemeteries and memorials across seventeen countries, and Arlington continues to set the standard for dignified military honors. But that does not mean there is no room for improvement. Our resolutions call for expanding cemetery capacity where needed, bolstering outreach efforts, and deepening volunteer involvement, so every veteran has the choice to exercise their right for burial and honors at the location they choose, in a manner befitting the honor they deserve. Last year our National Executive Committee passed a resolution encouragingly, Legionnaires, our auxiliary, and the sons of the American Legion to volunteer at VA cemeteries through VA voluntary services and to partner with other organizations including grave adoption. Our members are already active in flag placements, grab graveside services, Memorial Day observances, and veteran and the Veterans Legacy program. But memorialization does not begin or end at the cemetery gate. It is the final chapter of a veteran's service and the first chapter of their legacy. The greatest challenges occur during the transitions, before death, during end of life care, and long after burial. Families navigating serious illnesses are often focused on medical appointments, caregiving, and difficult conversations about prognosis. Questions about burial eligibility, military honors, survivor benefits, and memorial preferences frequently receive less attention until it's too late. VA has a valuable pamphlet, Planning Your Legacy, VA Survivors and Burial Benefits. But anecdotally, Legionnaires report it is rarely offered in VA MCs. Even when it is, it does not fully address the practical steps families need before a crisis moment to establish a true continuum of planning. When death occurs, survivors are suddenly coordinating with funeral directors, cemeteries, military honors teams, and multiple VA offices, often without clear guidance on benefits or documentation. After the funeral, the burden shifts again to dependency and indemnity compensation, CHAMP VA, survivor's pension, probate, and grief support. Too many families experience this as a series of disconnected handoffs rather than one coordinated journey. We urge VA to expand and integrate advanced memorialization planning into routine VA interactions, including broader distribution of pre-need eligibility tools and resources in VAMC's. We urge them to strengthen coordination between VHA, VBA, and NCA, so veterans and families receive seamless during the critical transition from end of life care to memorialization and continue their strong partnerships with veteran service organizations, funeral directors, state, tribal cemeteries, and volunteers who often serve as the first line of help for grieving families. We urge this subcommittee to ensure survivors receive consistent comprehensive assistance after burial, including full implementation and expanded future capability of the survivor assistance and memorial support program within VHA. Mister Chairman, the men and women in Arlington and in cemeteries the world over gave their time on earth and the time they'll never spend with those they left behind in the hope that we would, as the Constitution says, form a more perfect union. We honor their sacrifices by ensuring the trust in our institutions remains strong. And nowhere in the federal government is that trust more important to keep than with the families of those we lost. I thank you again for the opportunity to testify, and I welcome any questions you have.

The written statement of Mr. Lai will be entered into the hearing record. Miss Manion, you're now recognized for five minutes.

Chairman Littrell, Ranking Member McGarvey and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to testify on behalf of the Travis Manion Foundation, where we empower veterans and families of the fallen to lead by mentoring youth and serving in their communities. My name is Ryan Mannion. I am the CEO of the Travis Mannion Foundation and sister of Marine Corps First Lieutenant Travis Mannion, who made the ultimate sacrifice in Iraq in two thousand and seven. Today, I am honored to speak about the importance of memorializing our fallen heroes and the role the community partnerships play in ensuring that their legacies endure. My brother Travis is buried in section sixty at Arlington National Cemetery. I visit him often. Every time I step onto those hallowed grounds, I am struck by the thousands of headstones that represent the very best our country has to offer. National cemeteries like Arlington are where our nation's promise to honor and remember those who served is made permanent. But we need to make sure that they are not only places of remembrance, that they are classrooms where future generations can learn the meaning of service sacrifice and citizenship. At TMF, our vision is simple but powerful, to create a community where veterans show up as civic assets and are provided opportunities to continue to serve. This past Memorial Day, working in partnership with the National Cemetery Administration and Arlington National Cemetery, the Travis Manion Foundation empowered more than twenty-five hundred volunteers to visit seventy-eight veteran cemeteries nationwide. These volunteers place commemorative tokens at the grave sites of ten thousand fallen service members through what we call the Honor Project. The impact of that effort extends beyond the families who know their loved ones are being remembered. Volunteers leave with a deeper understanding of the sacrifices made on their behalf. They learn the stories behind the headstones. They begin to understand that these are not simply markers, but lives of purpose, courage, and service. These lessons are more important now than ever. In previous generations, military service was woven into everyday American life. Today, less than one percent of Americans serve in uniform. As that divide grows, we must be intentional about creating opportunities for Americans, especially young people, to connect with those who served and those who gave their lives in service to our nation. The greatest tribute we can pay those who served is not simply to remember them, but it's to live lives worthy of their sacrifice. That is why community partnerships matter. Organizations like the Travis Manion Foundation help transform national cemeteries from places people visit once a year into places where stories are shared, lessons are learned, and legacies continue to inspire action. Before Travis deployed to Iraq for the second and final time, he was asked why he had to go back. His response was five simple words, "If not me, then who?" Those words do not end with my brother. They live on in every American who chooses service over self. That is ultimately what our national cemeteries make possible. They do more than preserve our history. They shape our future. Every headstone marks a life that still has something to teach us. Through strong community partnerships, we can ensure those lessons are never forgotten, and that the service of those we have lost continue to inspire generations of Americans yet to come. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today. And I look forward to any questions you may have.

The written statement of Miss Mannion will be entered into the hearing record. I yield to the ranking member.

Thank you for yielding, Chair Luttrell. I have the honor of introducing a great Kentuckian, Mister Shane LeGron, the Director of the Veterans' Cemeteries Division of the Kentucky Department of Veterans Affairs. Chief LeGron is a thirty year veteran of the United States Air Force and the Kentucky Air National Guard where he was an explosive ordnance disposal technician. After his military service, Chief LeGron continued to serve by joining the Kentucky Department of Veterans Affairs. I'm proud to have people like you serving our great state, sir. Mister Chairman, it is my pleasure to introduce to you and the committee the Director of the Veteran Cemeteries Division of the Kentucky Department of Veterans Affairs, Mister Shane LeGron. I yield back.

Thank you, sir. Mister LeGron, you're recognized for five minutes.

Yes, sir. Thank you, Chairman Little, Ranking Member Carvey, and honorable members of the subcommittee for inviting me to witness today's hearing. It's an honor to be here. I look forward to sharing my perspective on these important issues and answering any questions you may have. Like it was said, I am the uh cemetery director for our state veteran cemeteries. And last year I was promoted to the director of that's position. Uh this year, as the director of cemetery division, I oversee our five state veteran cemeteries, including their budgets and procedures. I'm responsible for the cemetery programs that work with the National Cemetery Administration for compliance and with the Veterans Cemetery Grants program for cemeteries expansions. Kentucky does have five state cemeteries. The first internment was performed on March first, two thousand four. Our other four cemeteries opened in two thousand seven, two thousand eight, two thousand ten, two thousand eighteen, and as of June first of this year there are twenty-four thousand five hundred ninety-two veterans and dependents interred in our state veteran cemeteries. The veteran veteran cemetery grant program is an excellent example of the outstanding federal and state partnership that has benefited Kentucky state veteran cemeteries our cemeteries have received twelve federal grants since two thousand two totaling forty-three point eight million dollars. Each of the five state cemeteries received grant funding for initial construction And in just the past four years, Kentucky has three expansion grants for approximately three million to build new columbarium walls for s- for cremations and pre-placed out of barrel containers for casket determines at our two oldest and busiest cemeteries. Commonwealth of Kentucky also has a great relationship with the NCAA. We follow their guidelines, rules, regulations because it requires all veteran cemeteries to meet the same high standards, which is what our veterans deserve. This year the NCAA supported the tribal and federal veteran cemeteries in holding a in-person and virtual meeting organized by the National and state directors for the Veterans Veterans Affairs to discuss common issues and help find resolutions to common problems. This has allowed us to collaborate with the NCA on more focused topics. The NCA has already addressed several of our issues in the first year. On January first this year, Kentucky sec- Kentucky successfully implemented the Burial Equity for Guard and Reserve Act. Over the first five months, we've interred ten Guard and Reserve veterans and one dependent. Thanks to the increased collaboration with NCA as facilitated between the state and tribal veteran cemeteries, we were able to with our state and tribal counterparts who had already implemented this program. This helped us eliminate problems before they even arose. We were able to find headstone vendors using shared eligibility criteria, establish standard operating procedures in a timely manner, and with great confidence. While I believe the NCAA and the uh Veteran Symmetry Grant Program are working well and serve as a value partnership, for state and tribal veteran cemeteries I have some recommendations regarding the the grant program. There are a hundred and twenty-five grant funded state and tribal veteran cemeteries across the country. Funding to help expand and extend the life of these cemeteries is urgently needed. Over the past ten years, our cremation and termites at Kentucky State Venerate Cemetery has increased from thirty percent to over forty percent of our termites which caused our columbarium walls to fill up faster than we than we had planned. As the cemeteries expand, we need more infrastructure to assure that we can maintain the norm the natural shrine standard. Until recently, federal corporations have limited this type of expansion as more expansion projects result in higher infrastructure cost. for cemeteries. For example, our next great uh grant request for Kentucky Veterans Cemetery Central in Hardin County, Kentucky will include increased infrastructure expansion costs for the first time due to roads needing to be built and the land needing to be cleared. Congress's recent increase of annual funding for the grant program from fifty million to a hundred and fifty million, have been very encouraging. I recommend that Congress maintain this funding in the upcoming FY twenty-seven appropriations. This increased funding is essential to allow for more infrastructure expansion projects and to address the backlog a request that many state and tribal veteran cemeteries have, allowing us to advance vital projects that honor our veterans. I would like to note that while stan- state and tribal veteran cemeteries are very thankful for Congress's increase in the grant program funding it has taken time for cemeteries to adjust to this increased funding to sure they are able to spend it within required time frame. Some cases this adjustment period may give the impression that a hundred and fifty million for the grant program is too high or the state and tribal cemeteries don't need this funding I can assure you, that is not the case. In fact, the increase in funding this year has surprised many state and tribal cemeteries. Getting this initial funding through the state takes time, even though we know it will be reimbursed through the VCGP. Engineers and contractors need time to submit estimates. The build phase and projects take time to plan. Several states have made and will make the push to complete this year's projects, and we'll be more prepared to receive this funding in the next coming year. We're very grateful for the Congress's support to the state and tribal veteran cemeteries including the Congress increase. in the funding this year. I wanna thank the members of the subcommittee for your important work on these issues for your committee to honor the veterans. Give a special thank you to Chairman L- uh, Chairman Littler and Ranking Member McCarvey for inviting me to participate in this hearing. Thank you for recognizing the importance in supporting the veterans and av- advocating for memorials and cemeteries that are here in their honor. Without your support and dedication we would not be able to honor the veterans the way we deserve. Thank you for allowing me the honor to serve as witness in hearing. I look forward to answering your requests.

The written statement of Mr. Legrand will be entered into the hearing record. McGarvey, you're recognized for five minutes, sir.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, Director Director LeGrenwold, we will write back to you. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for your continued service. Um, wanna talk to you about an issue that we discussed on this subcommittee last week. Uh, is VA service radius of seventy five miles for interments at either national or a state cemetery reasonable?

Um, great question, sir. Although the seventy five mile radius is a great standard to set, uh, we've still taken account the uh the terrain of the state along with the population density. Uh, for example, Kentucky is consistent with rugged terrain on the east, uh, sweeping plains on the west. Uh, KTVA five cemeteries were designed based on the state's terrain to cover the two hundred fifty miles in four hour drives, uh, across the state, syncing with the other six national cemeteries, we believe that would provide effective coverage. Bottom line established in the seventy-five uh mile is a good national baseline, but the terrain and uh population should be considered in how the state can establish the right number of federal state cemeteries to service population. I would like to say that uh, don't let the population in should be the only factor.

Mm.

We have a very small cemetery in southeast. Uh, it has a population of three hundred and three in the city. Um, but it is in that position to where we need the seventy-five miles. That is probably one of the most veteran-friendly cemeteries we have. The entire town, entire county rallies around that thing. That is their monument, their veteran monument. That cemetery as a whole, the the town, their their schools, their leadership program, their schools do fundraising for the cemetery to get uh to this year to uh vet veterans that was in a cemetery that was just just forgotten and overgrown. They raised the money to get that brought to us, you know, and it was the right way. So as yes there should be an exception, I don't think with the dense popul the population density should be a bigger part.

Okay, yeah so so an exception particularly in rural areas and as you know, especially if you're in in southeast Kentucky,

Yes sir.

it can take a long way to get not a very far distance uh through the mountains, so appreciate that. Um the electric director LeGron I know you all have great partnerships with the community and get a lot done with funding from the state, and you all do a great job with your cemeteries. Uh, but I wanna flesh out your recommendations for the Veteran Cemetery Grant program just a little bit here. Can you expand on your testimony regarding the importance of funding, uh, this program on a state and tribal level?

Funding this program provides, uh, each cemetery in the program to be built to a similar standard. They follow similar operating procedures, and they have similar goals they try to achieve. It's all part of being part of the grant. program. You have to buy into those things. When people visit the veteran cemeteries, whether federal, state, or tribal, they expect all of them to be at a shrine level, an exceptional memorial to the veterans. The dress right dress the military is used to and known for. Also the program allows for growth and longevity of the veteran state and tribal program cemeteries. When placed in the ground crypts in the burial fields, the number of veterans and family members we can enter sometimes doubles, which does nothing more but expand the lifespan of that cemetery. Adding years to the lifespan of the cemetery, so in my opinion, the program is vital to the success of the state and tribal cemeteries, and the increase in funding for this program allows even more stability and growth for our veteran cemeteries.

Do y- and do you have any recommendations of how the NCAA might better prioritize which projects to fund?

Uh, great question. Uh, that one's a little more little harder to answer because I don't know their ins and outs. I don't know their actual procedures and I really don't know their as of the other state's needs. I think they're doing a great job prioritizing and I know for Kentucky they're doing a great job answering us back on why we didn't get selected or we did get selected.

No, thank you for that. And back to another one of the issues we discussed last week, w it's a difficult topic, uh difficult topic of unclaimed veteran remains. Um, a lot of this comes out of the state level, and a lot has to do with state laws and state funeral directors and and the things the states are under. Can you discuss what the Commonwealth has been doing to identify and inter-unclaimed remains?

Yes, sir. Kentucky is very proud of our veteran Indian burial program and our Mission in America program. Since two thousand nine, funeral homes that have Kentucky veterans that are injured and unclaimed worked with the KDVA to enter them into one of our state veterans' cemeteries. We reimburse the funeral home for up to a thousand dollars of the expenses they incur. Our VSOs provide burial honors in the form of right rifle salutes, taps, folding the presenting the flag. And we let the communities know we have these injured services through our social media platforms. And there's always, they always come out to show up and there's other respects, and usually a hundred, two hundred people on most of these. Uh, to date, the Kentucky has paid over two hundred thirty-nine thousand dollars to funeral homes helping our veterans, over the past, it's a little since two thousand nine. The Missed and Married Project's another great uh success story for Kentucky. We have an exceptional volunteers that look throughout the state for unclaimed veterans. They look at universities, they look at funeral homes, and anywhere else remains might be. With help from the NCAA, we've verified and assured that there are veterans that are eligible for burial and hold a large

Thank you, Mister Director LeGone, and uh yield back, Mister Chairman.

Thanks.

Thank you. Um. We've been talking about distances. Geometry is one of the greatest things that I think if people understood geometry and physics, we'd we'd ha- we'd have a lot better decisions in so many ways. Um, good to see you all. Thank you for being here. Um, Mister Lyle, it's always good to see you. Thank you for the Legion's continued advocacy on these issues. Your testimony uh notes that the Legion supported an additional national cemetery in Hawaii just last week.

K, sir.

Consistent with resolution one eighty one's call for expanding cemetery capacity where needed. Would the Legion apply the same standard to Michigan's upper peninsula, where nearly thirty thousand veterans currently have no in-state cemetery within a reasonable reach? I know that's a pretty direct question.

Yeah, uh, I mean, on its face I believe we would support

Okay. Um, again, I got several questions, all for you, Mister Lyle. Course it's good you you you advocate so well for the Legion and your engagement with all our our members is is uh uh second to none.

I I absolutely don't.

You know, uh I I don't you think so?

I don't I don't I don't. Not.

Yeah, I agree.

I'm not gonna do that, sir, but I can.

Yeah.

I mean, I'm just

Yeah. So, uh your written testimony actually cites the UP, the Upper Peninsula directly. You note that a widow in in the Upper Peninsula might receive fundamentally different support than a widow in the Bay Area simply because of the resources available nearby. Could you speak to how that same geographic disparity applies to memorialization specifically not just survivor benefits but a family's ability to physically attend a burial or to visit a grave site?

Yes, sir. Well, thank you, General Bergman. Um, uh, as with VA, health care, VA benefits, memorialization, uh, is is different from state to state, location, uh, based on geography, uh, and a number of other factors, as as was alluded to previously, seventy-five miles in one part of the country can be vastly different than seventy-five miles in another part of the country. Um, so, you know, we should take into account, the VA should take into account the the actual uh you know technical access to a resource is not the same as functional access to a resource. Uh so for memorialization seventy-five miles or or so, and it's a it's a good first step to get to that um ninety-five percent metric that Under Secretary Brown mentioned, um but you know we should we should take additional strides to increase access for for widows like the one that was mentioned in the Upper Peninsula.

Okay, and you also described memor- memorialization as a continuum. that the transitions between systems are often where families fall through the cracks. Uh, again, for an Upper Peninsula veterans family, that continuum doesn't just include a paperwork gap, uh, it includes a one thousand mile round trip. Uh, does the Legion view geographic access as part of the the continuity problem?

Absolutely. Um, you know, so at end end of life, if a veteran is in hospice, care at a vha facility um in michigan or another rural community um you know depending on where

mmm

they are specifically it can uh from vha to memorialization at nca and then to accessing benefits from the vba um they're they're gonna be obviously very different in uh distance and as i mentioned the technical uh resource that is available is gonna be different than the functional ability of that person to uh to access those resources so what candidly i think we would like to see um is there's a hmm uh program at vha called uh the sam's program uh which is a fte neutral program that's that's kind of like a social worker for families um that are going through this process uh but some sort of unified approach between agency to insure that there are warm handoffs instead of the uh veterans surviving family members having to do the research and the work themselves to go find those resources at each of these agencies

'Kay.

Thank you. Um Ms. Mannion, I uh I've debated here for the last thirty minutes whether to make the following comment, but I know that Travis is listening, I know that your mom is listening, I know your dad, I served with your dad, I probably saw you when you were quite young, and I knew Travis and I We had some pretty nice parties with your dad and mom up at mag forty nine, up at Willow Grove, back in the, I think that was probably back in the eighties. Something like that, but I'd, I just wanted to uh tell you how uh how important it is that you've taken up the mantle for your brother. And your mom. So thank you. With that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

Thank you, General. Mr. Lyle, it's time. I'll ask you some questions, okay?

Yes, sir.

It uh, which I was just highlighting. Continuity frequen- frequently breaks at the hands between end of life care and memorial benefits eligibility determination and scheduling military honors. Coordination reimbursement processes, though, so you're you're sp- you're speaking the language that we all have debate about in inside the VA and here in Congress. And since you're wearing that hat, I'm gonna ask, I'm I'm assuming I'm talking to the emergency, what's the plan?

Uh.

Hey, that's that um, and I got shotgun with this one time too, and I was saying hey here's the issue and somebody asked me what's the plan, it's like I don't have one, I just wanna bitch about it.

I, thank you for the question, sir. I I uh, as previously mentioned to to General Burbin, I think uh, you know, we had a round table a couple of months ago uh with folks from the the NCA and uh community organizations. Um, a- and I I proposed, you know, there should be some sort of portal, some sort of unified portal, um, for veterans and their spouses that starts, um, you know, pre-need as early as humanly possible in the VHA, um, in order to facilitate

Pre- what is pre-need?

Well, uh, you know, but like when before they're in hospice care. Um, candidly so, uh, the the VHA has the ability, uh, only people who are enrolled in in the vha are really given access to uh the va s program to do wills and estates and things like that to make those transitions a little easier when when the time of need actually happens um so getting upstream as early as possible to make sure

the va has programs injected into the department that currently handle some of these things in some way i would expect Correct?

Right.

Yeah, they do they do have some. The problem is um

Here's the tricky part. The veterans. I say this all the time when I'm on committee. We are a very hard group to handle. Now, even if the VA put everything in place, it's still our responsibility to do it. And I don't and cuz you mentioned you mentioned marketing. That's the expansion. How r I'm sorry. I wrote it down. Um, how do you, even if, okay, so again, American Legion, let's just say you have the perfect business model that that that they can implement inside the system, okay, which again, I'm gonna ask you if you have that, and secondly, when you roll the tape back, how do you get us to touch it? Not us Congress, but veterans. I'm speaking veterans here.

Yes, sir. Um, well, the thing I would say is, as previously mentioned, I think the SAMS program is a great place to start because it does, at least within VHA, offer that kind of warm handoff, that that person-to-person.

So that's there.

It's there, it's FTE neutral, and it's and it's um set to be fully implemented by the end of this year. It's a great program.

Okay.

Um, but it's it's not necessarily integrated super well with the other different agencies. Um, and again it's, it's FTE neutral, so people that are,

Just something that the Legion and the VFW and DAV and Warrior

that are doing this work.

Foundation and Travis Manning Foundation something that they can Facebook for us and say, hey these, this is here and it exists and you'll be paying attention to it.

Well, well the, I can only speak for the American Legion, like we routinely put out these um, these resources to veterans um, a as kind of a force multiplier for VA to make sure that these veterans and their families know that these things exist. Um, it's it's obviously as you know less than fifty percent of veterans are enrolled in in VHA care so there's the other you know fifty percent it's it's our job as civic organizations to educate those folks uh about these resources. Um, so we we do that, we try um in terms of getting veterans access of education and the resources they need but as mentioned when people are in different seasons of life where they're going through uh end of life care and uh they're they're just not immediately thinking of of those things so it becomes harder to try to get people an education.

So how do you bridge the gap between the VA and and the end of life care when the VA's not gonna have any idea that's happening?

Well I I mentioned in written testimony um I think that VA publicat- or VA routine VA interactions could uh they could introduce more of these kind of upstream resources, um, and and try to get that integrated as much as possible into life.

How do we how do we get our how do we get our elders, I mean, uh most respect when I say it that way, to do that? Because the VA is not it's an open door, I mean, they're sitting there wait ready to receive. I'm just having a ca-

Sure, I

This is two veterans trying to figure a problem out. I'm not this this is I cuz I don't know how they answered this question, because I hear what you're saying. So how do we fix it? Because i-

It's a complex problem because uh you're talking about um some veterans enrolled in VHA care that don't necessarily use it until they they need it towards end of life right um which is why I said integrating some of this stuff into routine like primary care appointments specialty care appointments and at least giving folks the education um to these resources that they have, for people that are enrolled in VHA care. Um but you know from community partnerships uh, not community partnerships, excuse me, uh, community events and engagements that the Legion does largely at the post-level and the state level. Um, particularly around events like Memorial Day, Veterans Day, you know, big type events, integrating some of this education and resource into our, uh, media marketing materials. Um, we, you know, we partner with the VA on the veteran legacy program project. Um, we, uh, have part

So all of this, cuz I'm I'm well over time. Can we back this all the way up and hand it to a service member who's leaving and saying you need to pay attention to this for the rest of your life? I, because if it's implemented into the VA, which you got it, the hot handoff, trains run down the track, hey, ready, set, go jump. The VA is that way. And then you have to kind of pick it apart once we get there. And if to to to for ease of movement if we were to prep our service members when they're exiting with everything that you just spoke about with the VA on board saying here is your end of life preparatory movement, don't lose it. I shouldn't say it that way, but it

I think it'd be a great start. I mean, as as you're well aware, trying to to change improved tap is an ongoing process. So if that's what you're talking about, like I I certainly think that's a start. Uh, but then you go five, ten you know, twenty, thirty years down the line when somebody needs to maybe update a will or laws and regulation changes, uh the education is a c- a continual process. So to the extent possible, trying to institutionalize some of these things within uh

Not necessarily institutionalize it, but what's the army, you're a marine, what's the army term for

I mean, don't look at me, I was in the in the Marine Corps too, so I don't know.

Well, I guess we're screwed in.

How so?

Uh, I'll try to put it in crayon. Um, anyway, a a conversation that I think we need to kind of develop more with not only you all, the VA, as well as the Department of War. Um, Miss Mannion, I told you that I wouldn't let you get out here without me saying something to you, but um, thank you for everything that you are doing for our veterans and service members, and God bless your family. Mr. McGirmy, you have a closing statement. Go ahead, Mr. Daymond.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, uh thank you to all of our witnesses today, uh appreciate all of you all being here, all of your continued service, Miss Manion, uh uh you've been recognized by everyone else on this day as saying, uh I don't want it, you to escape without us. Thanks from us as well, uh what you're doing is really incredible, um and appreciate your your incredible devotion and and persistence and uh and advocating for our veterans. Um I think it's easy for us in Congress to get lost in technicalities of of programs, to get lost in the flash of the news cycle, uh but in this room we just are clear-eyed and we see veterans at the heart of every single thing we do. So yeah, we ask some tough questions, yeah we wanna know some of the plans, um we wanna know what you all think, how it's impacting the veterans, how these how these programs are actually playing out, um from the cemeteries of Southeast Kentucky. uh to veterans trying to get end of life care. Um we wanna make sure that we're here to up love the voices of those we serve, the veterans. So I'm thankful for y'all being here to discuss the thousands of burials, the ceremonies, the educational events, uh the acres of land you oversee. I look forward to future advancements in cemetery operations that allow for better scheduling and greater support of NCA directors caretakers crews and all staff that ensure this mission has a one hundred percent success rate. Although the Under Secretary is still here, ninety-eight percent's pretty darn good. Um

That's a phenomenal number.

I do Yeah, phenom- it's a phenomenal number. So uh I do hope that as we continue our partnerships, we're making positive changes for our veterans, that we're continuing to uphold that incredible standard uh that the American people demand of us and that we must continue to work towards better cooperation between federal and state cemeteries uh thank you Mister Legron for coming here from Kentucky and for your testimony regarding regarding the veteran cemetery grant program And I think, you know, what this committee does, we don't get it always right ourselves, but we do keep the veteran at the heart of everything we do, the center of everything we do. We do right by them, we'll be doing the right thing. So, Mr. Chairman, I'll get back.

Thank you, sir. So, at our two hundred and fiftieth birthday we are at that incredible milestone because of the bravery of bravery of the men and women who's Those that we've lost, those that we haven't. And we think about them every day. You know, Mister McGarvey and I, we, when we hold these committee hearings, we just, we just ask that everybody, you know, kind of pour their heart and soul into their testimony because he and I are We're all in on this. And uh, we have been from from step off. And, Mister Secretary, thank you for coming in today, and I don't know if anybody is still with you that was testifying, but you know, as we continue to move forward, we keep a watchful eye. And I - and I - I like to say this, and it will - it will always resonate with me, is that you - we are in the business of serving our veterans. And no matter how hard or how easy it ever has to be, when you wake up every single day, you can never forget that. And because, um, the day that you do, um, we will s- we will lose. And for those that um serve this great country throughout our history, we always wanna make sure that they will understand and those that have lost to their loved ones will understand how much we care for them. So I ask unanimous consent that all members shall have five legislative days in which to revise and extend their remarks and include any extraneous material in the record Hearing no objections, so ordered. With that, this hearing is adjourned.