Expanding the Mission: The Future of the National Center for Warrior Independence in West LA

Give me to come to order. Without objection, the chair may declare a recess at any time. Good morning, everyone. Uh, thank you to our witnesses for being here to discuss the future of West LA VA campus. Over a century ago, the West V- LA VA campus was created with a clear mission, to serve our nation's veterans in California. That promise has not been fully kept. For years and through multiple administrations, members of this committee have raised concerns about how this land has been managed. Those concerns were not imaginary. They were documented. Um, they were raised repeatedly and in many cases ignored. Biden administration made decisions to prioritize other interests over veterans while veterans were sleeping outside the gates of this very campus. Last year, the Trump administration's reversed the decades-old status quo, stating that the current lease on the VA campuses do not uh pr- uh pr- principally benefit veterans the latest congressionally mandated report show that the VA is being significantly underpaid for renting land, intended to be used to the benefit of veterans. Time and time again, the holders of these leases and contracts have failed to uphold their end of the bargain with VA. We have seen firsthand that the homeless veterans living on the campus do not have the services to h- and to help uh make them successful and get out of the homeless situation and back on track. Today, we will examine these previous agreements and contracts to ensure that they are putting veterans first. Oversight does not mean standing in the way. It means making sure the department has the tools, authority, direction to fix what has been broken. I applaud Secretary Collins and the Trump administration for putting in hard work to try to s- make sense of years of inaction, and let many of these agreement benefit oil benefitting oil companies, a private school and the public schools, baseball teams over the veterans. Rather than defending prior decisions, Secretary Collins is actively re-examining them and bringing accountability where it was previously lacking. That shift is postured in critical if in in critical if we are serious i- and is critical if we are serious about correcting course at West LA. It has taken new leadership, willing to confront these challenges, directly to begin addressing what has become a long-standing failure at the at this location. Veterans are always at the top of my p- my and all of my colleagues' mind, and I want to ensure you that those using this land have the same mindset. I fully support the intent of the administration's vision for the National Center of for warrior independence to effectively lift veterans who are struggling out of homelessness. However, Any pathway forward related to this new s- center should not move forward without clear and specific statutory authorization. Congress must ensure that new initiatives, especially at this scale, are properly authorized, structured, and aligned with congressional intent. I understand that many entities operating on the campus were required to sign nondisclosure agreements related to these projects. Since this is federal property intended to serve veterans, transparency should be a priority, not an option. If agreements, planning decisions, or delay are h- hiding behind NDAs, the committee will demand answers. Oversight requires visibility. The Ameri- the American taxpayers and our veterans deserve to know how the land is being used, and why pro- progress has been so slow. Finally, I did want to mention I'm happy to see that the oversight plan from VA that shows how the department will comply with President Trump's executive order to transfer this campus. However, this report is two hundred and forty-eight days delayed. The department owes this committee a clear path forward. I look forward to working with the bipartisan way with secretary with the ranking member and Secretary Collins to Cur- uh course correct West LA. With that, I welcome the w- our witnesses and look forward to your testimony. But now I recognize Ranking Member Takano for his opening comments.

Uh, thank you, Mister Chairman. I want to start um the hearing by honoring the lives of two individuals who were dedicated to serving homeless veterans in Los Angeles. Edna Naito-Chan and David uh Echevarria uh are are have both recently passed away. Miss Naito-Chan was the acting chief of community engagement and reintegration services for the greater LA healthcare system having worked with homeless veterans for over twenty years I had the pleasure of meeting Mister Echevarria last august at a round table i held in los angeles uh david's advocacy and improve uh david's advocacy uh improved thousands of veteran lives my heart is with his family and all those who love him and i ask that uh mister chairman you join me in a moment of silence for mister echavaria and miss naito chan

moment take a moment of silence

Well, thank you, Mister Chairman. Uh, we are at an, let me just say at the outset, Mister Chairman. I I wasn't anticipating your statement uh about uh the inappropriateness of an uh nondisclosure agreements, but uh I welcomed those comments and am heartened uh that you have um made that statement. Um, and also um uh your statement about the uh uh the over the over the plan uh that was due uh two hundred and forty eight days ago um it is something that we have requested from the white house uh for many months uh and uh veterans have been left in the dark frankly and the NDAs have been a severe uh have created loss lots of unnecessary suspicion and distrust and so I appreciate uh I think this is getting off to a good bipartisan start is what I'm trying to tell you um if we uh so my my point is if we do not act at this inflection point, uh regarding the future of the National uh Veterans National Soldiers' Home in West LA, I fear that we will doom this property to become a vast, a vast west side skid row. And if you've ever been to a skid row in downtown LA, to see the idea that this would become a vast, even a vaster west side skid row, is uh is is a horrifying vision. Now I know these are strong words, but I mean them. There is no other place in the country besides Skid Row where there are so many formerly, where so many formerly homeless people live. These veterans bear the trauma of both having been homeless and the visible and invisible wounds of service. This concentration of veterans without adequate supportive services has jeopardized tenant safety, sobriety and mental health. We have created a pressure cooker. We must address the root causes of the problems at West LA, or we will fail the thousands of veterans who should be able to call the National Soldiers' home their home. A home should be more than just a place to sleep. It should be a community, a place where veterans feel safe, with services and amenities, and where veterans can stay with their children and not worry about crimes taking place next door, gangs coming on the property. or a neighbor dying from an overdose unattended. A community means that different groups of veterans can live together, work together, coexist together. That is what the vision for the soldiers' home was meant to be. But it is not. It is failing. The veterans who are meant to, uh, who are meant to call this campus home are being harmed by the same failed policies that are harming everyone in this country. A housing crisis, a a rising fuel costs, a skyrocketing cost of living, cuts to health care. The affordab- the affordability crisis is getting worse and worse under this administration and homeless veterans are experiencing it firsthand. Now there are many ent- there are many entities who are involved in what the soldiers' home has become and what it could be. It is inexplicable that the majority uh did not heed my request to include HUD, uh the two LA area public housing authorities, Brightburn Energy or Brentwood School in today's hearing. I asked the majority to include a veteran advocate on the panel, but I was rebuffed. I will do my best to include these veteran voices by sharing some of their stories, by trying to get their questions for VA answered. But again, it is inexplicable that my colleagues would refuse to bring these voices to the table, so I'm gonna share stories from six veterans who should have been invited here today. Now, I'll start with George, a twenty year retired disabled Air Force veteran who uses a wheelchair. For over three years, George lived in a six by six tiny shed on the West LA campus with his dog. After a series of failed housing placements, none of which were George's fault, he moved into an apartment at the soldiers' home two weeks ago. It took veteran advocate Rob Reynolds, my staff, and Jim Zenner from LA County getting involved to finally get George into housing. It should not have been this hard. Two weeks ago, my staff met with Vince and his two-year-old, two-year-old named, also named Vince. Uh, he shared that they, Vince shared that they were moving out of campus housing because their building was overrun with pests. He found roaches in little Vince's crib. roaches in his child's crib. Unfathomable. Fire alarms go off all hours of the night, disturbing both of their sleep, the sleep of pets who also live in the building, and often triggering PTSD symptoms for other veterans. Another veteran named John shared that there are fifty known drug dealers on campus, and that drug use is rampant. He said that there were three veteran deaths due to overdoses in a single building in March and April alone. but that the medical examiner codes overdoses as deaths by natural causes, skewing the data. He shared repeated instances of veterans passing away in a housing unit on campus, and VA police failing to secure the unit, leading to thefts of the deceased veteran's belonging. He also told us about dogs who live with veterans having to be saved with Narcan after drug exposure. And Narcan is, Narcan isn't even readily available in every building on the campus. Another veteran, Ryan, told us about how building and campus security is failing, but VA police is hamstrung by staffing challenges and jurisdictional and policy restraints from doing anything in this situation. There are frequent apartment break-ins and people are climbing through windows to buy drugs. There is known prostitution and sex trafficking throughout the property. Charlie lives in one of the newest buildings on campus but is already having issues. He won't bring his two sons to visit and wishes the property were more family friendly friendly. Each of these veterans talked about the need for more supportive services for campus residents. In August of last year, a group of veterans living in building two O five invited my staff in so they could witness the atrocious conditions. The building was infested with pests and mold. My staff immediately emailed VA central office asking for a meeting with VA. the Public Housing Authority, and the property management company, John Stewart Company. That meeting still has not happened nine months later, and it it's it was clear to my staff during their visit in April that the conditions in the building have only worsened. When my staff asked facility leadership about this long-standing request regarding building two O five during a visit two weeks ago, the Medical Center Director and Deputy were not even aware of it because VA's central office that is, the Office of Congressional and Legislative Affairs, never sent it to them. Urgent case work requests from my staff on behalf of veterans in crisis who live in West uh at the West LA uh uh at West LA have also gone answered. Now when VA ignores my staff, they're ignoring veterans. This is utterly unacceptable and frankly it's dangerous. Veterans' lives are at real risk. Now I'll mention I'll mention one final veteran. Jeffrey Powers, the lead plaintiff in Powers v. McDonough lawsuit. Jeffrey has repeatedly asked why VA continues to drag on its appeal. And when will VA finally do the right thing and implement Judge Carter's order? I share Jeffrey's frustration. I hope today that VA is ready to share with the public a real plan for West LA. The implications of both the Powers case and the President's executive order establishing a center for warrior independence, uh at West LA would bring thousands more veterans to the campus. Is VA ready for this? I fear they are not. I have repeatedly called on VA to make its strategy for West LA public and to give veterans Congress and the community an opportunity to weigh in. All the work that has been done to this point has been done behind closed doors without veteran or congressional input. Individuals working on the West LA project were required to sign nondisclosure agreements, as was mentioned earlier by the chairman, with the purpose of keeping information from the public. These unprecedented, and I re- I repeat, unprecedented nondisclosure agreements have prevented Congress and the public from getting the information that it is entitled to and that VA is accountable for. But sadly, as VA's testimony today makes it clear, there is no plan to rectify the numerous issues I and my staff have raised for years, nor address the new housing required by President Trump's new executive order. Now, I'm not ideologically opposed to Trump's intent with his executive order. I don't know if the world just kind of shattered here. I am not ideologically opposed, Mister Van Orden, to Trump's ind- uh intent with this executive order. But to be able to serve six thousand veterans, many of whom have complex needs, requires comprehensive strategy. I do not see, frankly, the financial commitments being made, nor adequate plans for VA to meet these needs, to meet the needs of these veterans. And I do not believe this VA has the expertise to develop, implement, and oversee a plan of this size and scope. With the decades that the soldiers' home uh wasted away under mismanagement and corruption, VA should know better than to operate in secret when it comes to making plans for the land. Veterans deserve better. And veterans living at at West LA need more than thousands of tiny homes. There are veterans who live at the soldiers' home who have jobs and who are doing well, uh but there is a significant population who may need more help. I fear without an intentional and significant investment of additional supportive services and a comprehensive strategy, we are setting up current and future veteran tenants for failure and will simply be warehousing veterans at the soldiers' home. And when a veteran is ready to say " yes" to treatment, VA must be prepared to provide that treatment on demand. Now I call on my colleagues to join me in demanding VA invest in expanding clinical practices we know work. like mental health intensive case management, assertive community treatment, substance use case management, and critical time intervention. VA must get serious about the reality of its staffing situation to build out integrated teams so they can provide the care veterans need. That means more social workers, more nurses, more physicians, and more VA police. For those veterans who want to live in a sober environment, there should be options available at the soldier's home. The best way to get people sober is is through permanent housing and support, not through forced institutionalization. Being a homeless veteran should not be a crime, and having an addiction related to your service should not be an excuse to lock a veteran behind closed bar behind behind bars. Now, we have an opportunity to set the standard for ending veterans' homeless veteran homelessness by building a community for veterans at the National Soldier's Home. To date, VA has shown a lack of transparency and accountability. That needs to end today. Otherwise, the Trump VA's action and inaction threatens to doom this property to failure, and the veterans who reside there to continued harm. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

Thank you, Rankin, Rankin member, for his opening statement. Uh, we will now turn to our witnesses wi- for their testimony. Testifying before us today, we have Doctor uh, Mister John uh Bartram, he is the Under Secretary of Health at VA. Companied by him with him is Doctor Thomas Otoole, Acting Deputy Under Secretary for Health Clinical Services at VA, uh Mister Brett Sims, Executive Director at the Office of Assistant Management at VA, and um uh Miss Danielle Runyon, Senior Counsel for the Secretary at VA. Will all the witnesses please stand and raise their right hand. Do you solemnly swear that the testimony you're about to provide is the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth? Thank you. Let the record reflect that the witnesses answered in the affirmative. I now recognize Miss Runyon for five minutes to deliver the testimony on behalf of the Department of Veterans Affairs.

Thank you, Chairman. Chairman Bost, Ranking Member Tucano, and distinguished members of the committee. Thank you for inviting us to discuss the work VA is doing to implement President Donald J. Trump's executive order keeping promises to veterans and establishing a national center for warrior independence. For generations, VA's West Los Angeles campus has held the unrealized potential to be a beacon of hope and stability for thousands of veterans. Under the leadership of President Trump and VA Secretary Douglas A. Collins, this potential is finally on the way to being achieved. And it is about time, as the mismanagement of this campus dates back more than a hundred and thirty years. In eighteen eighty eight, Arcadia Bandini DeSterns Baker and Senator John P. Jones gifted hundreds of acres of land to the government for the purpose of providing a home and community for disabled veterans. It was meant to be a place where Civil War veterans could live out the rest of their days in peace. But this goal was never fully realized. Some housing was built, but over the years large portions of the campus were deeded away, and other parcels were used in ways that did not benefit veterans. VA Inspector General reports in twenty eighteen and twenty twenty-one concluded the property was being mismanaged. The IG determined that various agreements that allowed outside parties to use parts of the campus did not comply with the West LA Leasing Act, other applicable federal laws, or the Draft Master Plan. In May, twenty twenty five, President Trump issued his executive order to turn this property around. It called on VA to vastly expand the capacity of this campus to house thousands of veterans at the new National Center for Warrior Independence, by January one, twenty twenty eight. Here's what we've done to get there. In February, twenty twenty six, VA terminated illegal and wasteful West LA leases and a license under which the campus allowed the Brentwood School Safety Park Corporation and Bridgeland resources to use la- the land in ways that serve no meaningful benefit to veterans. Bridgeland, for example, is operating oil wells on the land. It is bad enough that this campus was being leased out in ways that provided no benefits to veterans. But even worse, these agreements underpaid VA for the fair value of these properties by more than forty million dollars per year. To sum it up, these leases were ripping off veterans and ripping off US taxpayers. The ongoing litigation in this area limits our ability to discuss these matters further, but we continue to do everything we can to reclaim the land at our West VA West LA campus, so we can fulfill the requirements of President Trump's order. In the meantime, VA has taken important steps to establish the National Center for Warrior Independence and build the infrastructure we need to host thousands of veterans at this site. When we arrived in January, twenty twenty-five, the campus had the capacity to house nine hundred and fifty-five veterans. In January, twenty twenty-six, our capacity to provide housing to formerly homeless veterans expanded to a one thousand three hundred and seventy-seven. By the end of twenty twenty-six, we expect to have capacity to house one thousand six hundred and seventy formerly homeless veterans thanks mostly to our plan to build temporary housing this year for another two hundred and twenty veterans. By the end of twenty twenty-seven, we expect to have beds for two thousand forty-eight homeless veterans. Meanwhile, VA is putting in place the infrastructure we need to handle an increased veteran population. For example, VA is h- is enhancing safety measures on campus to give veterans the secure space they need to successfully achieve independence. We are also increasing the level of service we give to veterans who already are living on the campus. Among other things, VA has made homeless, patient-aligned care team services available to all veterans for clinical care. We've provided case management support to help veterans as they seek housing vouchers with the Department of Housing and Urban Development. We've also terminated the lease of the Wadsworth Chapel on the West LA campus, to ensure it can serve veterans of faith. These efforts and others have helped ensure that ninety-eight percent of

Thank you.

veterans on this campus remained housed and do not return to the streets. Our goal is to give veterans a fair chance to succeed in the country they sacrificed so much to defend. In West LA, we are building a campus that unifies housing, clinical care, mental health care, and benefits for some of the nation's most vulnerable veterans. When we succeed, the campus will serve as a destination for thousands of homeless veterans across the nation, and a place where they can get the care they need, obtain sustainable employment, and achieve financial independence. Thank you for supporting this important project, and we look forward to your questions.

Thank you for your testimony. I now want uh wanna go to questions and I'll recognize myself for five minutes. Uh, Mr. Bertram and uh Miss Runyon, do you believe uh you're above congressional overs- you you are above congressional oversight and accountability and I just need a yes or no.

No, we do not believe we are above that.

No. Okay. Mr. Bertram and Mrs. uh Runyon. the committee has requested all nondisclosure agreements copies and who signed these agreements under oath do you commit to working with the committee to provide all nondisclosure agreement copies to ensure proper oversight and avoid future hearings with uh with you both at as witnesses.

Absolutely.

Sure. Good. Good to know. Mister Bertram, for years this committee watched prior VA leadership avoid making difficult decisions. at West Los Angeles because of the political sensitivity, uh litigation concerns, uh competing outside interest tied to the campus? Why did Secretary Collins decide to undertake this effort when previous VA leadership largely stood away from fully assess asserting VA control and direction over the West LA?

Sir, I think the president decided to take this on for his commitment to veterans and that we know that we're here to fix things and that this campus, as was pointed out by the ranking member and by yourself, has not been living up to the needs. And so we are taking this opportunity to address those needs and to make sure that it lives up to uh the fulfillment of the promise.

Hey, Mr. Bertram, President Trump's executive order required an action plan to establish the National Center for Warrior Independence to be submitted To the President by September sixth, twenty twenty five, this report was received last night, two hundred and forty eight days late. Why has the submission of this action been delayed and when should we expect to be briefed on this plan?

Sir, we'd be happy to set up an appointment with you to to brief you and your staff.

Okay.

And uh I'll ask Miss Runyon on any of the logistics on the release of the plan, but uh it's a plan that's submitted to the White House and so we had to go through the White House process.

Who's personally responsible for the delay?

I I can't comment on who is personally responsible, uh, Chairman, but we are absolutely committed to providing you with updates

Okay.

I need I need to come to that.

as requested. Um, this has been an iterative process.

The only concern I have is that we got it last night, but it's dated September fifth, twenty twenty five. I had a lot of problems, but I I see that as a problem,

I I understand, Chairman, and what I will say also, um, we have

okay? Would both of you agree that, and let me tell you that it's been through both Republican and Democrat administrations, through a tremendous amount of secretaries, that um, as we've watched West LA deal with the issues it has because I can only even remember whenever I came out and toured West LA, I don't think I was - Was I ranking member or chair- just taken over as chairman?

I think you're right.

I was rank- ranking member. And we could see the problems that were developing then and we made - there were promises made to cure the - cure it. Do you - I know that we - how we feel, but I - So the concerns that I have is that the outside influences that were being pressured on the VA

Yeah, yeah.

And the local politics of that, not necessarily for the veteran, but what for who had the lease agreements, has h- what held us up from actually aggressively going after this to get it ready for the veterans that needed to be taken care of.

Uh, yes, Chairman, so we would absolutely agree. Um, we have had to clean up a tremendous uh amount of challenges and issues, um, that some of them that we listed out in our our testimony and others that I think you all had al- already noted in your opening statements. Now that we have the the lease agreements that are terminated, some of these topics I can't necessarily get into because of the ongoing litigation. However, we are committed to ensuring that with all of those actions that we're taking, now we can finally move into the opera opera operationalizing phase of this to ensure that we achieve the President's objectives which we are committed to achieving by January of twenty twenty eight.

And and so if I could add, there's a lot of steps that you talked about and and Ranking Member Ticano you mentioned about security. We've already or on a path now to uh to we've authorized and we're working to hire up to a hundred and sixty um VA police officers. We have increased it from last year in the fifty to sixty range to uh over eighty as of right now. We just uh s in awarded a security contract to have additional security, some contract security on. We just awarded a multi-million dollar lighting contract to put lighting up around the campus to secure. So we are taking steps and actions to secure the the the campus because we know that we need a secure campus, uh as ranking member Dicato said, you know we need to be ready and support and we're building out supporting facilities and supporting housing and supporting infrastructure for our community, not just a housing complex.

My time has expired, but would you follow up with me on on uh who personally was responsible for delaying this report?

Yes, chairman.

Yeah, thank you. I'm yield to ranking member for five minutes.

Thank you. Uh Mister Mister Bartram Uh, I do agree with you that the president has moved forward in executive order, but he's also complying with Judge Carter's uh decision. Is that not right? Isn't Judge Carter's decision also driving this, not just the president's executive order? So,

I

do you wanna answer?

I'm I'm happy to take that if if that's okay, Ranking Member. Um, yes, absolutely.

Thank you.

I

Um, and then why are you choosing to continue to appeal Judge's uh, Judge Carter's order, which largely mandates most of Trump's EO?

Because that's in litigation. Unfortunately, I cannot answer that question for you.

Thank you. Um, Miss Runyon, did VA renew its lease with UCLA?

We did not actually. There's

So if you have not, when do you expect to make a decision um uh of on a lease renewal?

So that lease has an automatic option exercise that only UCLA has to put us on notice that they want to extend for another ten years. This is one of the issues that we have uh we've we've come across um and that we've inherited uh are these leases that give these third parties um wildly inordinate uh unilateral rights.

It's it's a unilateral option that that UCLA has. Um uh so uh I was wondering has VA issued formal notice to Brentwood School and Breitbart Energy to vacate the West LA VA property?

We've terminated those leases and we're in the process of winding down.

Okay. Um when were those notices issued?

Those notices were issued in February.

Um

They're supposed to vacate.

The no uh well when did you those notices to vacate? What were uh were notices to vacate issued?

Notices to vacate have not yet been issued.

Okay. Um, so uh when those uh notices were issued, um well, w- when w- excuse me, not that that uh a VA did not request any funding in its FY twenty-seven budget to support the removal of the physical infrastructure of the current leaseholders Brentwood School and Brightburn Energy from campus. Do you plan to request supplemental funding to support the eviction efforts?

Uh, I can't comment on that and I can I'd be happy to take that for the record at a time when we have made some decisions on that front. But what our funding does request for twenty twenty seven is to

Right.

support the infrastructure and resources that we need precisely what you had mentioned in your opening statement um regarding to

Okay.

to support the six thousand veterans that we plan to bring to campus.

But Thank you thank you for that response. Mister Bartram, how many case manager contracts has VA canceled for West Vala- West LA VA?

Case manager contracts?

Yes.

I am only personally aware of one, but we have two hundred and uh Doctor Atul, two hundred and forty six case management.

There are two hundred

Oh, okay, Mister Bartram, uh, h- I'm I'm sorry. Just cut you off, Mister Doctor Atul.

That's okay.

I know of at least three contracts that have been canceled that provided case management to over two hundred and forty veterans. Please provide me a list uh with contract numbers, uh the number of veterans served under those contracts and the dates of cancellation by the end of the day. Uh, do you know how many case managers VA has in West LA, uh and what their caseloads are, uh, Mister Bartram?

Yes, we do. And Doctor Otu, do you wanna give the details on that?

Sure.

Thank you. There are currently two hundred and seventy case managers, um, working on campus, um, taking care of veterans, uh, homeless veterans. Um, of those, one hundred and thirty-five are VA employees and about another hundred and thirty-five are contract We also have an additional hundred and forty-five support staff for those uh case managers,

So w-

including housing navigators,

So w-

peer supports and others.

So it'd be clear VA the VA's internal uh case management is at a hundred and thirty-five. The rest are contractors?

That that is correct.

And you just heard me talk about the three uh the three contracts that have been canceled and that I want the numbers for those. So we have hundred and thirty-five. Uh what is the turnover rate for these ca- case managers?

I I do not know that off hand, sir.

Okay, uh, please get that number too. Uh, how many leave West LA each month?

How many?

How many, how many of those case managers leave West LA?

I, uh, that I do not know either, sir.

Okay. How long does it take to replace them?

Um, I'd have to get that for you as well, sir.

All right, thank you. Uh, how many case managers uh are in the hiring pipeline?

Right now the facility is actively hiring and we have allocated

All right, my question again is how many case managers are in the hiring pipeline?

I'd have to defer that.

You don't know. Okay. Um, you should know that case, the case manager situation in West LA is dire. VA's own data shows that there are forty-four vacant social work positions in West LA, yet you've canceled contracts with seemingly no plan to replace them with internal manpower. I'm, I'm usually uh for bringing VA care back in house, that we hire internally uh directly, but veterans should not be left without case management or a case manager who is stretched too thin uh while you uh struggle to fill these uh these vacancies. Do you know what VA regulations require uh that case managers serving veterans in the HUD-VASH are supposed to have a caseload of about twenty-five veterans with some adjustments uh for need level? So, President Trump is proposing to bring in an additional six thousand homeless veterans to West LA. You have a severe shortage of case managers, and you've cancelled the contracts that you used to help bridge the significant gap. I'm sorry, sir, the math just is not adding up under secretary uh Bartram.

So, sir, if I can make a couple of points to this, currently the case management ratio of number of veterans they are serving is below both the national uh guideline standards of twenty-five one to twenty-five

Interesting.

and at approximately the national average. Um, we fully agree with you though, sir, that um in order to

So, Doctor Toll, may I interrupt you here? we're hearing from veterans themselves that there are uh uh from case managers, From case managers. excuse me, case managers that they're they have three hundred veterans uh three hundred patients on their panels.

I I am not aware of that. I will say, sir, this is one of this is a difficult job to do, and I support our employees doing this work, and it is important work. The data that we have show that the ratio um is below the one to twenty-five mark, but we do agree with you, sir, that this is a workforce that is going to need to grow and we have

Uh I well I suggest you're far from ready to deal with six thousand uh homeless veterans uh that you intend to house at the campus. Um I'm over time I'm s- I'm sorry. I yield back.

Gentleman yields back, uh Representative King-Heinz, you're representative uh you're rep- recognized for five minutes, you really are.

Thank you, Mister Chairman. So I'm from the Northern Mariana Islands where we don't have a seabock, and I was going through, in preparation for today's oversight hearing, I was going through uh the major construction requests and what struck me was um almost a hundred million dollars for an eight hundred space parking structure. And so I guess my first question is how much of the budget is actually veteran

So in our in our budget sometimes it'll appear that things aren't veteran facing when they are supporting the veteran in the community. Uh the parking supports our veterans who live on the in the housing unit so that they can park and I'd like to do is uh is is Brett if you'd like to talk about the projects that we're doing and how we're building the community out because Yeah. the comments that have been made about are we ready? I would say that when we got this, it was not ready to be a community, and we are doing things to make it a community, and that's what we'll talk about in our in our budget request.

Uh, thank you. That's a great question, Congresswoman. Parking is a challenge at every VA medical center. I don't think anyone would doubt that. On the north campus, we've actually taken out of service virtually every parking lot that existed to build permanent supportive housing. So there's no parking for the veterans, for visitors, for the veterans, staff servicing the veterans. This parking garage is intended to provide that in a single place to open up other land that we can put housing on. There are other asks within there that are both clinical in nature, uh our community living center, our domiciliary programs both have upgrades and expansion of bed capacity included in the twenty-seven ask, as well as the uh ranking member had mentioned sober living. Building two twelve is designed to be a hundred bed sober living unit, filling one of those gaps in needs.

I guess what I'm trying to reconcile is is the price tag, right, and I think everybody can agree that everybody wants to work on addressing the homelessness situation. And so when you're looking at the five hundred million budget requests, and then the hundred million price tag on parking requests, I I wanna understand what is the metrics whereby the cost per bed for each housing structure is an analyzed.

So that that's a great question. So uh as as you noted, most of these buildings are not permanent supportive housing. We we do have information on the cost per bed for the permanent supportive housing that we could provide, uh but I will also say that I wish construction was cheaper. We could certainly do a lot more. The cost of construction has continued to escalate for every type of project that we do, whether it be beds, whether it be parking, whether it be utility infrastructure. that price tag just continues to escalate. Um parking is an example of something we do at almost all of our campuses that we used to be able to do for thirty or forty million dollars that is now quickly approaching that hundred million dollars.

Okay um I I get that. I guess um you know in in terms of just getting a full understanding of the ask I think one of the issues is not getting a full campus master plan and so um once you have exhausted the five hundred million dollars do you anticipate additional cost to that because as we do coming from a jurisdiction that has to deal with supply chain issues and just inflation of construction cost um you know what are you beyond the five hundred million dollars what is the annual operating cost that that you you know that you expect just so that we have a goal full grasp of how much this is actually gonna cost given the fact that you know you are renovating like a nineteen thirties property right and there's gonna be some permitting issues and so you know was there an analysis done whether it'd be better to just build a new infrastructure altogether or actually comply with a lot of these regulatory requirements that can be incredibly expensive in the state of California

yeah fully appreciate that congresswoman and the short answer is there will be more asks. Um, we we have both infrastructure needs beyond what we're asking for in twenty-seven, as well as ongoing operational needs. There is thirty million dollars into the health care budget to support the operations of a lot of what we're doing on the north campus there. That's gonna be enduring and there will be more, uh, both staffing and other types of of facility operational components that will be added to that. So there will be more. This is sort of the the down payment to build that foundation of a campus that can support more and more veterans that would be moving on but there will be additional cost and future budget requests that we'll be working with the administration to provide

I'm running out of time I yield back Mister Chairman.

Gentlemen, I'm Neil Jack, Representing Brownlee, you're recognized for five minutes.

Thank you Mister Chairman, um and thank you for the panel for being here, um Miss Runyon, uh according to your own data from VA's by name list, uh nearly four hundred veterans experiencing homelessness in VA are over the age of sixty-five. Another three hundred and fifty veterans are between fifty and sixty-five years old. That's nearly half of the by name list that will be over the age of sixty within the next ten years. So my question to you is how many existing permanent supportive housing buildings at West LA have a nurse on site?

Thank you for your question, Congresswoman. Uh, I'm gonna turn that over to Doctor Otool to provide you with the information on that.

Thank you, Congresswoman. I d um first you are I appreciate you raising that question because it's

Just I need a a a number where we have none or where we have three.

I I Well Well

Well, I just need a

It it is much more though, ma'am, than just the number of nurses. We are planning an entire aging in place health care support system

I just

for those aging veterans in the EU wells.

And I understand that. I just want to know

I I do not know the specific number currently in place, but I just want to reassure you it is something we are actively planning for and anticipating.

Okay. Well, it it it sounds like that you understand that our older vets who have cognitive mobility or other health issues that hinder their ability to manage finances or complete basic housekeeping tasks that, um, this places them at risk of homelessness. But having regular assistance with activities of daily living and help with medication management can help diminish aging veterans' homelessness risk. I my bill, the Elizabeth Dole Act, uh expanded VA's authority to p to provide home and community based services to help veterans safely age at home. LA County's framework for ending veteran homelessness suggests VA create assisted living arrangements for aging veterans. CalVet and Swor- and Swords to plowshares have a program that providing supportive services to aging and vulnerable veterans to help them maintain housing stability and to safely age in place and the National Alliance to End Homelessness has a partnership with US Aging to leverage resources to address these issues as well as well so my question is how is VA going to incorporate these supportive services into its plan to care for age for the aging veteran population so if you can provide some examples and be brief cause I have a few more questions to ask.