Joint Social Security and Work & Welfare Hearing With Commissioner Bisignano

You okay? I think you have a face. Subcommittee will come to order. Good morning and welcome to today's hearing. I wanna thank our witness, Commissioner Frank Bisignano, for appearing before us today to discuss the state of the Social Security Administration. Uh, I have to start off with criticism and a little bit of a complaint. Uh, your office was extremely late getting your testimony to us to review and prepare. I mean, we have a responsibility here in the subcommittee to provide oversight and direction for the Social Security Administration and Uh, I I just expect better results in the future and I look forward to, uh, to working with you to make sure that it happens. Um, now let's get to the hearing. Tens of millions of Americans rely on the Social Security Administration to deliver monthly retirement, survivor, and disability benefits, and millions more interact with the agency for critical life events. For far too long, the American people were forced to deal with an agency plagued by outdated systems and antiquated processes resulting in unacceptable delays and a complete breakdown in basic customer Under the previous administration, our constituents faced a full-blown crisis delivery during deliveries uh uh of their services. Average telephone wait times reached an atrocious forty-two minutes, and backlog for initial disability claims eclipsed one eclipsed one million for the first time in history. But today we're here to talk about a dramatic turn around. Since Commissioner Bisognano took the helm just over a year ago, Social Security Administration has made historic progress by shifting resources away from the bureaucracy at its headquarters, back to direct front-line service delivery. The numbers speak for themselves. Wait times for the national eight hundred number have shrunk by roughly eighty-nine percent dropping from forty-two minutes down to under five minutes. Average wait times at field offices nationwide has been slashed by thirty percent. The backlog of initial disability claims has been reduced by thirty-two percent from its peak of one point two seven million. And the Social Security Fairness Act was implemented months ahead of schedule, providing rapid much needed relief to millions of beneficiaries. We are seeing that by investing in modern technology and focusing on efficiency, the SSA can serve more Americans better with fewer employees. I'm particularly proud of how these efforts have translated to real world, real real world results, particularly back in my home in Kansas. Since I took the gavel as Chairman of the Social Security Subcommittee, my team and I have worked hand-in-hand with our local personnel and Commissioner Bisignano to address regional bottlenecks. I'm thrilled to report that because of this close coordination, wait times at our Wichita field office are down an incredible sixty percent compared to two years ago. That's what responsive government looks like when we prioritize the needs of our constituents over the conveniences of Washington. However, we celebrate these operational victories, we cannot lose sight of the financial headwinds facing the program. Yesterday, the twenty twenty-six annual trustees report was released. The findings on this report are a stark reminder of the urgency before us. The OASI Trust Fund is projected to reach insolvency in twenty thirty-two. Protecting and strengthening social security requires absolute fiscal sanity and strict oversight. Every single dollar lost to administrative error, inefficiency, or improper payments is a dollar stolen from the benefits of hard-working Americans. In fiscal year twenty twenty-four alone, SSA improperly made billions in overpayments and underpayments. We must continue to deploy advanced automation tools and human common sense to prevent these errors from happening, to eliminate waste, fraud, and abuse, and protect this vital lifeline for generations to come. Commissioner Bisognano, you have proven your strong leadership and private sector efficiency can break through some federal stagnation to dramatically improve customer service. We look forward to hearing how you intend to build on this momentum, root out improper spending, and work with our committee to strengthen social security. Thank you, and I I look forward to your testimony. I now yield to ranking member John Larson for an opening statement.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, and um welcome again, Commissioner, to the uh the committee. Um I'm uh pleased that you're uh before us, but uh I don't think the urgency for the American people as much as we might like to applaud efficiency wherever it can happen is still the fact that there's five million fellow Americans to get below poverty level checks from social security. That it's been over fifty-five years since social security has been enhanced to help the people who deserve it most, especially in these economic times that we're currently going through. I know it's become uh I I guess we should uh s- say that uh everything didn't happen because of Joe Biden, but um, One thing that Joe Biden did do is say that we ought to lift the cap on people who pay nothing into social security, as we struggle to see a committee and most recently the Social Security Administration released the twenty twenty-six trustees report that again shows solvency creeping up by a full year yet again. And yet nothing is being done. Except the fact that I think it's pretty obvious to a number of people, including myself, that the attempt is being made by the current administration to privatize social security. And I think that any fair examination of what's going on in social security, including eliminating seven thousand employees, closing regional offices, et cetera, are great. grateful for some of the uh telephone uh aspects of the memory store, but to do so you're taking people away from existing jobs that uh should be providing greater customer service. We can argue back and forth about efficiency and effectiveness, but that doesn't take away from the family that's relying on social security. And for close to percent of all Americans and the more than seventy million people that are currently receiving benefits, that means they're doing without. Here's the facts. Five million Americans get below-poverty-level checks from the wealthiest nation in the world and the number one insurance program that the nation's has, the most successful insurance program that the nation has, and yet because of lack of action by Congress, there has not been seen an improvement to these since nineteen seventy-one. Add to that the fact that people are still being taxed on their social security benefits in spite in spite of the claim of the other side that they've taken care of that yep maybe six million out of the twenty-eight got some relief. That by my math means that twenty-two million Americans who shouldn't be taxed on their social security still get taxed on their social security. Also, as um we all know that uh while the repeal of weapon GPO was important and imperative, funding it is important as well. I'd like to submit for the record as well the report that was issued yesterday, the And today the social security financial outlook deteriorated due to Trump policies, including both the big beautiful bills, so to speak, as well as the tariff issues, and most recently, as reported yet by another whistleblower, what's happening in terms of trying to deport people who are paying into social security.

Without objection, so ordered.

All in all, uh, Mr. Chairman, um, my concern, uh, remains the same as it has for the last decade. And that's that we directly, as a committee, enhance the benefits of people of this country that they richly deserve for the nation's number one anti-poverty program for the elderly, the number one anti-poverty program for children, and the number one program that more veterans rely on for disability than any other agency. I think everybody on this on this da- dais and in this committee understands the urgency. I will submit for the record later every single district and how it's reflected in the impact on the individuals that we're sworn to serve. The hard truth is It's great that there might be some efficiencies, but that doesn't translate into people who are barely surviving get under-poverty-level checks, forty percent subsist on just social security alone, and for more than half of Americans, this is the only thing they have. That's not progress. That's criminal. And Congress needs to act. We have a bill. We're prepared to do that. We're prepared to restore solvency and extend benefits.

Thank you, ranking, ranking member Larson. I now recognize the gentleman from Illinois' Work and Welfare Subcommittee Chairman Darren LaHood, for his opening statement.

Well, thank you. Thank you. Sorry, let's try this one. Well, uh, thank you, Chairman Estes, um, and happy to be part of this joint, um, subcommittee hearing today between Work and Welfare and the Social Security subcommittee. And I want to thank you, Chairman Bisognone, uh, for being here again today. uh and your work as Commissioner of the Social Security Administration. We appreciate um you being back here with us and I wanna thank you for your continued work leading the uh Social Security Administration. As we know, SSA serves a huge number of Americans and the work your agency does touches seniors, individuals, eh with disabilities, families and workers across the country. Um Commissioner, you joined us about one year ago after having been newly confirmed in your role. And I reviewed some of the data your team shared with us before this hearing about customer service at the agency. I was impressed at the progress you have been able to make in web, phone, and field office operations and to see that you you've made a priority of meeting Americans where they are. And obviously your background and experience in the private sector has been immensely beneficial uh to that um endeavor that you've taken on. And I appreciate your commitment to making the agency work better for the people who depend on it. SSA is one of the federal agencies that Americans interact with most directly. So when service is delayed, people feel it immediately. And I look forward to hearing more about the progress you've made and how Congress can be helpful in the future with your continued work. As Chairman of the Work and Welfare Subcommittee, I'm also interested in the administration of the Supplemental Security Income, also known as SSI program. For some recipients of SSI, their disability or age may mean they are unable to work. But for others, work may be possible with the right support, the right information, and a system that does not make the rules harder than they need to be. Last time you were here, we spoke about the importance of removing barriers for people who can work and want to work. SSA has has work supports and programs designed to facilitate the transition to work. For instance, like the Ticket to Work program. And I look forward to hearing how SSA is looking at that program in particular and what progress has been made. The committee also has been focused on improving the foster care system. With the leadership of First Lady Melania Trump, the House recently passed the Fostering the Future Act, a bipartisan piece of legislation to modernize the Schaeffe foster care program and improve outcomes for foster youth. When you were here last year you spoke uh about the issue of children in foster care who receive social security survivor or SSI benefits, and the importance of SSA working to increase the number of uh the number of states that have data exchanges in place to ensure children in foster care get the help they need and I appreciate SSA's attention to this issue and look forward to hearing any updates on where things stand with that. Commissioner, again, thank you for your service. Thank you for being here today. We look forward to a fruitful, uh, conversation and dialogue in today's hearing and your willingness to be before the committee. We look forward to your testimony. Thank you and I yield back.

Thank you, Chairman LaHood. I now recognize the gentleman from Illinois, Work and Welfare, subcommittee ranking member Davis for his opening statement.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Over seventy-five million Americans depend on monthly Social Security Administration payments. SSA's work is vital to all Americans, those receiving benefits, those earning security for the future, and those whose loved ones live with dignity because of Social Security or supplemental security income. Those benefits are even more critical and more crucial now with inflation at its highest level since we recovered from the pandemic. So I appreciate the Commissioner joining us today. Commissioner, I hope today can be the start of telling Congress and the public the whole truth, starting with being fully transparent about the challenges SSA faced in the wake of massive staff cuts, an exodus of experienced staff, and repeated credible reports that the Trump administration misused the public trust. Most recently, a whistleblower revealed an SSA plan to declare US citizens, and I quote, did, unquote, for a political gain. SSA statements about customer service do not always appear to reflect the reality Americans experience. Press releases claiming dramatic improvements in SSA customer service, particularly on the eight hundred number, conflict with reports from AARP and our constituents. People across the country report waiting in long lines at social security offices are being turned away and told to make appointments only to discover no appointments are available. Similarly, it seems misleading to claim a zero call wait time for seniors that waited hours or days for a call back or to praise short call wait times for people whose problems are not resolved. I hear repeatedly that people must call back over and over to finally speak to someone who can answer their questions because the eight hundred number forward them to staff outside of their understaffed local offices, staff who cannot answer individual case questions. So I ask you, Mister Commissioner, to provide accurate and clear information. so we can work together to make sure that you have qualified staff, you need to deliver benefits. As ranking member on the subcommittee on work and family support, I have a special responsibility to speak up for SSI recipients, many of whom live with severe mental and physical disabilities. Beneficiaries are just a fireably frightened that the administration's proposal to cut benefits for over four hundred thousand of the poorest recipients, that proposal should be formally rescinded, not left lingering to frightened vulnerable people. I also hope you will provide clear timelines for revising the adult and child medical listing of impairments for sickle cell disease based on the National Academy of Sciences' final report. When we talked last year, you said you were waiting for the report. It was published months ago and it confirms that the current SSA process is excluding some families from the help they need. For example, SSA data indicate that three quarters of all children with severe sickle cell disease get initially denied SSI disability upon application under these criteria. These families need help now. So, Commissioner, I thank you for joining us today. You have a lot of important work to do, and we want to help you get it right. Mister Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to submit to the record a letter from several sickle-sailing disability advocates to meet with the Commissioner to discuss revising the disability decision for those suffering from sickle-sailing. I thank you, Mister Chairman.

Without objection, so ordered.

Thank you. I yield back.

Thank you, Mister Davis. Uh, excuse me. Today's sole witness is Commissioner of Social Security, Commissioner Frank Bisignano. Thank you for joining us today. Your written statement will be made part of the hearing record, and you have five minutes to deliver your oral remarks. Commissioner Bisignano, you may begin whenever you're ready.

Thank you. Members of the subcommittees. Under President Trump, the Social Security Administration is delivering faster service, better customer experiences, and higher quality outcomes for the American people. Every customer-facing service channel, field office phones and web has improved by double digits. This is the best all-around performance ever at the Social Security Administration. We have pledged and are protecting and preserving Social Security. SSA serves over three hundred million people, and this year we will have over eight hundred million interactions. As a result of our record-breaking performance, we're saving the American people over forty million hours. The American people are winning. Before I arrived in May, twenty twenty five, SSA had four different leaders in five months and was an agency in turmoil. The American people endured a failed service model, the Biden administration's so-called appointment-focused service, turned people away who traveled to outfield offices. On the national eight hundred number, only half of our customers got their calls answered. On the web, self-service features were down twenty-nine hours a week. Turning people away who travel to field offices, only answering half the calls, and having office hours on the web, is not meeting our customers where they wanna be met. The Trump administration is transforming SSA into a model of excellence. a digital first agency that meets and exceeds customer expectations for timely accurate service in the channel of their choice. More than ninety-nine percent of outfield offices are opening and serving the public, with average wait times reduced to twenty minutes, a thirty percent improvement. No field office is closed due to staffing. We now answer ninety percent of calls to our eight hundred number, and have reduced average wait time to five minutes, a seventy-five percent improvement. Simultaneously, fiscal year to date, we are serving fifty-six percent more people, which represents thirteen million additional customers served. Online services are now available twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, enabling c- customers to complete transactions instantaneously. We are up thirty-seven percent on our web transactions and up twenty-one percent on account creations. We are the largest digital financial services platform with over a hundred and three million My Social Security accounts. In serving our most vulnerable, we have reduced wait times for initial disability claims decisions by thirty-four days, reduced hearing wait times by ninety-one days, reaching historic lows and are quickly delivering disability benefits to those who qualify. Technology, process engineering, and disciplined execution have driven this transformation. Some of our recent improvements include online claims, straight-through processing, and advanced technology. These improvements have generated the equivalent of twenty-five hundred work years and productivity savings across the agency. With better process engineering and management, we have reduced workload in field offices by the equivalent of six hundred work years allowing staff to spend more time serving customers directly. We have also prioritized workforce engagement. For the first time in agency history, I have established advisory councils that report directly to me. These efforts are producing results. Annualized fiscal year twenty twenty-six attrition will be thirty percent lower than fiscal year twenty-twenty-four providing consistency for both staff and the public we serve. Finally, we have made risk management a core operating principle at SSA. We have closed IG audit recommendations at a record pace helping protect sixteen billion in taxpayer funds. We are meeting congressional program integrity requirements, strengthening controls, and relentlessly pursuing the elimination of fraud, waste and abuse. We have also restored stability. During the past year, there has been no turnover around among my direct reports, whether career or political. That leadership continuity, combined with the dedication of SSA's workforce, enabled the agency to serve the American people through the forty-three day government shutdown during the peak of retirement season. I am honored to lead this agency and serve the American people. We are building a modern, sustainable, and durable organization. The President's fiscal year, twenty twenty-seven budget request, supports this transformation. Mister Chairman, over the past year, we have improved service, strengthened controls, deployed technology, and delivered measurable results at historic scale. I look forward to discussing these accomplishments and answering your questions.

Thank you for your testimony. We'll now proceed to the question and answer session. Uh, Commissioner Bisigliano, the operational turn around we have witnessed over the past year is a testament to what happens when private sector efficiency is brought into a federal bureaucracy. By focusing on core data and cutting through administrative red tape, the SSA is finally starting to deliver the level of service that Kansans and all Americans expect and and deserve. To better understand how you achieved these milestones and how we can assure these gains are sustained securely, I have uh a few specific questions regarding uh some of your strategy, uh staffing, program integrity, and some recent data. Uh, Commissioner, you you've managed to achieve significant improvements to customer service in the first year, including an eighty-four percent reduction in the national eight hundred number, uh, average wait times and a thirty-three percent drop in the initial disability backlog, while all, uh, while operating with fewer total employees. Can you describe how ideas like shifting personnel out of the b- the bureaucratic headquarter positions, and onto the front lines made this possible? and what further structural changes are planned.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Uh, I think first of all, uh, I'm honored to be here. I uh, when we look at what we inherited, uh, we inherited something that existed for a long time. You know, one of the first observations I had is way too many ma- layers of management. We didn't shut down anything actually that was facing clients, right? Regional offices was another level of bureaucracy. We didn't close down a field office. We actually reallocated our staff to where the work was. And I think that's a basic tactic. Uh, I think also we looked at what we needed when we need it. First day I looked at the numbers on the eight hundred number. At eight AM with four thousand people on our staff, we had four hundred. And the phone was ringing. Obviously, people wanted to call us in the morning and we weren't there. So, um, I like to make this more complicated, but it's not. It's putting people where the work is, it's building technology in a modern-day fashion, it's understanding what best-in-class performance looks like, and motivating a workforce who's fully motivated to be here. We have great people in SSA who love to serve the American public.

Well, thank you. Has has that reallocation of personnel affected service elsewhere in the agency?

Uh, I think when we look at the numbers, um, first of all, uh, you know, as you know, uh, you said it before. Eh, you know, you have s- fundamentally three quarters of a million, uh, social security numbers in your - in your jurisdiction. And we pay out, you know, more than three hundred million a month. So this is a very important engine to every one of uh the districts and we're very very proud of the full balanced scorecard. Uh visitors are down in field offices and up everywhere else, although that's uh fundamentally half our staffing and we committed to never close a field office and always be there. Um I think you know every number in the place is double digit improvement and that says uh the head of disability we never actually had a head of disability before. Uh, and it's a career person who was a judge, runs disability, and says it's bread and butter management to him, what they're learning and they're growing. So, uh, we - we - we - we look at a balanced scorecard. We have a governance structure that looks at the numbers every week as a management team and we're committed to ge- having a better year in front of us than the year behind us.

Great. Can we talk a little bit more about disability? Appreciate what you just said. But, uh, you know, as the pending disability claims and, uh, and, uh, the initial claims and and the reconsiderations continue to shrink. How are you ensuring that the bottlenecks do not materialize at other parts in the in the adjudication process?

Well, that's why we, I mean, when when we look at every week for an hour and a half as a management team, uh, and that would be, you know, my direct reports and their direct reports, two hundred indicators and go through them. You know, we wanna make sure we're making hearings more efficient, we're making uh By the way, efficient equals quality, too. Better output, less errors, quicker responses to clients. And so I think the only way to do it is look at a balanced scorecard, make sure we have the right resource allocation and a technology road map to change it. We're not modernizing, we're transforming.

Well, while the uh operational turnarounds are incredible, our constituents are still occasionally surprised by overpayment notices often due to no fault of their own. After ten years of intense oversight by the committee, the SSA's finally begun using the authority to implement a payroll information exchange designed to improve payment accuracy and relieve the burdens and reliance on self-reported wage information, a leading cause of the improper payments. Can you provide us with an update on the status of the information exchange?

Yeah, I mean, uh, it's called PIE, Payment Information Exchange, and, uh, on the first days here I didn't know what they meant by PIE, we learned it real quick, we've expanded it, uh we've uh have more information coming into it, and we uh changed the interval that in fact the information comes. So it's a daily exchange, it's a way that we get information from outside bureaus and can compare, so we we reduce our improper payments.

Thank you. Um, you know, data integrity and security are are sometimes uh part of the most critical uh uh role of the SSA uh which maintains some of the most personal information of nearly every American. Recent media reports have alleged plans to add millions of living individuals to the Death Master file, who which is an important database. I say it's the uh it's one of the main national database, if not the only national database uh uh that that provides that information. But the Death Master file is managed by SSA and utilized by other federal agencies to ensure are not going to otherwise deceased and inel ineligible individuals. Mister Commissioner, what's uh what's your response to these reports from the media about adding to living individuals and is the SSA knowingly adding living individuals to the Death Master file?

Uh, we are not. Uh, and the m- from the day I've been here we haven't added people to the Death Master file who are living. I will tell you um, I'll approach this, this is the first time ever approach, Uh, there was something called the Numinant file. Maybe you all heard of the Numinant. Uh, it's not a common word in anyone's neighborhood probably. No one walks into a social security office and says, " Am I on the Numinant file?" Uh, I like to call it the social security number database. And that social security number database had never been reconciled. Now, recognize we created two new positions. A head of risk management to report to me, which was well-subordinated in the organization. and a h head of cyber and resiliency, both two great career executives in the federal government. And in the creation of those roles, they absorbed all different types of way to do the business and to work.

Yeah.

We reconcile today the social security number database. We use lots of data exchanges. We are the number one identifier for Americans of who they are. So having that as pristine as possible And that, if it was never reconciled before, it's really uh been a heroic effort by the team, which I think ensures our data integrity and our data accuracy. And then building a cyber function of world class where we actually uh have have outsiders and ourselves continually pounding at it to share its right, is about the risk management function of social security which did not exist before.

Well, thank you, thank you for that update on how the process works. Um, and you said you haven't added uh any living individuals. Are are there any plans to do that in the future?

No, those are.

All right, great. Well, thank you. Um, I now recognize uh Mister Larson for questions.

Well, thank you again, uh, Mister Chairman. Let me uh start by uh uh saying uh uh do you believe that billionaires should pay the their fair share of uh Social Security.

I believe whatever the war is should be upheld.

The pardon? The what?

Whatever the law is should be upheld.

So if you're Elon Musk and don't pay anything into social security, that's okay with you.

I'm I'm I'm not the dictator of

So here we are before the committee and uh you're telling us how more efficient you are. So you're more efficient. How are the five million Americans, fellow Americans, most of them women, who are getting below poverty level checks from social security, are they able to starve more efficiently? Is that the goal here? That they're able to uh that we're able to send them their below poverty level check more efficiently. I guess so. So that's a great thing. We should all be doing cartwheels and celebrating. How about the forty percent of the people? Well, this is the only benefit that they have. So the only benefit that they have in retirement, you're saying to them, look what we've done for you. We're getting you that check more efficiently. Isn't that wonderful? Sounds to me more like when you look at everything that's being done, and nothing that's being done on behalf of the people that social security was meant to serve and props up our whole system of free enterprise and capitalism, we're saying, don't worry, we're getting it to you more efficiently. How about we get them something they can live on, and sustain themselves on. This is what this committee is, should be doing. And I would expect from our agencies, and I know everything's Joe Biden's fault et cetera, but I have to say this. Was Joe Biden wrong to say that we should lift the cap on people making over four hundred thousand? Was that wrong? Mister s- Mister Secretary?

Is that a question?

Yes, it is a question.

Um, I would say that the fact of the matter is, uh, Congress, and that would be laid by yourself as a ranking member here, has a responsibility to decide what they want to work on. The Commissioner's job

That's not what the question was. The question was do you think you're answering it the way you wanna answer it.

I'm answering, I'm answering a reality. You're asking the way you wanna ask it.

I asked a question. Do you think they, we should lift the cap on making, people making over four hundred thousand? Raise your hand in the audience if you're making over four hundred thousand. Raise your hand on the dais if you're making over four hundred thousand. And yet nobody here in this room is making over four hundred thousand and yet people are and yet that Joe Biden, boy that guy, he would an awful thing to say that those people as difficult as this may be, that they're gonna have to pay what all of you pay for social security. Wow, what an incredible burden he's just placed on people that Joe Biden, you know, that guy who wanted to see people pay their fair share into the most significant insurance program the nation has ever had, so people can live out their lives in dignity, instead of living in poverty more efficiently. This hearing should be about focusing on what we need to do for the American people. Everyone on this dais knows that it's been over fifty-five years since we've enhanced social security across the board. And who's gonna benefit from that? Where do the people in your district spend the money they receive from social security? on average over two hundred and eighty million dollars in every congressional district. And oh, wouldn't it be something if that were increased, that would actually allow not only them to live in dignity, but how about helping out every single local business in all of your districts, who that money will go directly back to by way of purchasing groceries, pharmaceuticals,

Thank you, ranking member, for your uh your uh your comments and questions. I now recognize Work and Welfare Subcommittee Chairman Lohut for c- for questions.

Thank you, Chairman Estes. Um, Commissioner, I mentioned in my uh o- opening comments that obviously this is a joint hearing, and I wanted to focus my questions on the work we do on the Work and Welfare subcommittee and p- specifically the Ticket to Work program. Um, and um, y- you mentioned in your testimony that the administration of the SSI program, uh, is extremely complex to administer. And um now that you have designated an SSI led official, dedicated to improving technology and processes, what specifically um is uh is that going to mean for the Ticket to Work program? Particularly since we know many recipients aren't aware of the program, and there are many questions about its effectiveness.

Yeah I thought I thought uh when we looked at SSI in general, and we looked at uh this vulnerable population what we recognized very quickly was there was no accountability with any agency for delivering against it. Yes everybody worked on it so as I had said we uh dedicate an executive in charge uh and he's been on a multi-prong effort w- one as you said on SSI and obviously uh you know the the payroll exchange where you talk about submission critical to SSI to ensure that we're not making payments and then coming back to people on ticket to work as we think about uh our beneficiaries and we don't want them burdened by reporting issues and we're committed to them in fact uh people with disabilities promoting that they have dignity to come back to work uh or promoting incentives and automated self-reporting through the systems we have uh we're encouraging employment networks to educate and we're fully engaged in that uh and I think we have really the first large scale evaluation program in over a decade to gather all information uh and come back on what's not effective still more. Uh, take it to work is a very strong program to help people to work. SSI deals with our most vulnerable, and we need to have people understand that, uh, if they if they decide to go to ticket to work, that, uh, if they have some hardship, we'll still be there for them. And I think that's the most important element that we have to work on, uh, Congressman.

Well, Commissioner, we I appreciate, uh, those reforms and changes that have you that you've made appropriately, and continue to implement. Obviously those are important to making this program successful, the Ticket to Work. As you know, we have roughly seven million unfilled jobs in the country. Um, last year in our um working families tax cut bill, we we worked on transitioning people off of government funding uh into working. Um, and the best social saf- the best social safety network is a job. And, and so we believe the Ticket to Work program with your reforms uh in making it more efficient, more effective, more accountable can help transition people into jobs. So we look forward to working with you on that. Um customer service, um you mentioned also, uh that matters for work. Uh and if a beneficiary is trying to report wages or resolve an overpayment issue, delays can create real uncertainty. Chairman Estes and I uh held a joint social security and work and welfare subcommittee hearing last September. The hearing was focused on removing barriers to work. Our witnesses testified that overpayments are one of the biggest deterrents to their efforts to transition back to the workforce. Um, what is SSA doing to reduce overpayments to SSI and um, DI um beneficiaries who are working or attempting to return to work?

Yeah, I think we've done uh multiple things, or I know we've done multiple things, obviously pie being the largest. the payroll exchange, seeing information, understanding it. Uh, the second is, in fact, cutting payment cycles down so, in fact, we have the most current information, the payment cycles were multiple days and, you know, on any day something can change relative to it. So getting those down to a couple days as opposed to multiple has made more. And we're conti- this will be a never-ending pursuit, to be honest with you. of continuing to refine the process and improve the processes.

Thank you for that. Um, in twenty twenty four, my colleagues and I on this committee sent a bipartisan letter to the GAO, government accounting office, requesting a study examining state participation in the monthly data exchanges. This is important because the data exchanges add transparency and accountability for state child welfare agencies, who are acting as representative payees on behalf of children in the foster care, uh system receiving SSI or SSA benefits. The GAO is expected to release this, its study this year and will have several recommendations for the social security administration. And Commissioner I just want to alert you to that, um can you commit to working with the committee to implement the recommendations that are gonna be made by the GAO or recommending legislative changes so we can make progress on this.

One hundred percent. Yes.

Thank you, Commissioner. I yield back.

Thank you. I now recognize working welfare ranking member Davis for questions.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, and thank you, C- Commissioner, for your answers. My constituents and national organizations representing seniors still tell me that when they call SSA, they usually get an offer to have someone call them back, not a live person, addressing their question or problem. When callers choose a callback, could you tell me the average amount of time it takes for them to hear back from SSA? Can you name a single metric that SSA publishes that captures or tells whether a beneficiary received the right ou outcome, not the fastest, not the faster, not the cheaper? but one that is correct and complete. And will you commit to publishing these data, this information, so that the public know what to expect?

Uh, I'd say first of all, um, we do s- post-call surveys, both on callbacks and first time. Callback is a uh uh an industry uh norm. It's not uh our specif specific item, we measure it the same way every industry does. We can say that we outperform more than fifty percent of the commercial entities, and that we have uh a performance at the high end in the federal government. Having said that, we do post-call surveys on everything, and we have about an eighty-nine percent satisfaction rate. Uh, I think if you think about um, you know, your your uh your jurisdiction. We have three quarters of a million social security number holders in your uh jurisdictions there, and we're paying out more than a hundred and eighty-one million a month to those uh beneficiaries.

Will you will you publish this so that they will know exactly what to expect? Or tell them?

What, tell me what you mean by that.

Will you tell them so that they they they know what they can expect to receive? How long it's going to take?

Well, when they call up, we give them an option. The option is, uh, you have an X minute wait time, an eight minute wait time, a ten minute wait time. And then we say that, and if they say, if you would like a call back, we will call you within that time period. So we tell every caller what to expect relative to their callbacks.

All right, then let me go to this question. In a twenty fifteen change in SSA policy resulted in sharply increased denials of SS benefits to children with sickle cell disease. Many parents of these children must reduce their work hours to help them get the comprehensive care they need. And of course they've got severe pain. These parents depend on SSI to help pay the bill. In twenty twenty five, the National Academies of Science report confirmed that uh the criteria should be changed so that these individuals got the help. Could you tell us what what what you've done since then? change that policy.

Well, we've uh we've actually spent time and gone through the elements that need to be changed. We have we have recommendations and to change them and I'm happy to come see you and go through it with you.

Mmm. They've also indicated that they're having difficulty sitting down. Would would you commit to meeting with the sickle cell advocates? to dig into this and a

happy happy to do it and happy to do it with you and your staff together

and also before we end I'm kind of surprised that I've waited more than three months for a substantive answer to questions that I've asked relative to delayed tax refunds could you commit to getting us that information as quickly as maybe a week or two.

Happy to. It's not a it's not an IRS meeting, but I'm happy to, sir.

Thank you very much and uh I yield back, Mister Chairman.

Well, thank you. I now recognize Chairman Smith for questions.

Thank you. Thank you, Chairman. Um, Commissioner, thank you and welcome back to the the ways and means committee, I know you have multiple hats um in serving the American people and we say thank you, um appreciate the work that you're doing um in social security administration, um you could be doing a lot of things and you've chosen to serve the people who are reliant on social security and and the people of this country, so um just wanna say thank you. You don't hear that a lot, especially when you come before congress they like to criticize you and tell you how X, Y, and Z is not perfect and why you haven't fixed whatever. Um, but as I was sitting here listening to some of that, Commissioner, I'm reminded I've been here twelve years on this committee. Twelve years. But that's a very short time compared to a lot of people that have been here thirty and forty years. And the last time social security was changed with benefits was nineteen eighty-three. But boy, we hear a lot of people up here talk about changing those benefits. But you're right, it's done by the legislative body, not by you. And so Congress needs to get their act together to address social security and the insolvency that's coming instead of poking blame at other people whenever it is our duty. and our responsibility. And so, um, there's only been a couple changes to social security in the last forty years. One of them was under my chairmanship with web GP O just in twenty twenty five. But we've seen nothing in years past. And so I hope, Commissioner, our colleagues will come together, both Republican and Democrat, to do it for those people who rely on social security. My mother, do it for people like my mother, that that's all she has. That is all she lives on. And that's difficult for her to do. But there's a lot of people like that, and that's why we have to come together. I have a few questions, Commissioner. As someone who represents a number of rural communities and many families that, that rely on social security in order to retire, with dignity and security, I appreciate how important it is that people maintain reliable access to social security services, whether it is in contact with your agency by way of phone, online, or in person at your filled offices. Um, Commissioner, for folks unable to travel to filled offices, how has the SSA expanded services and improved delivery through the other service channels since you last testified on this matter before the committee and and how have wait times and and access improved under president trump compared to the prior administration

thank you sir um i think first of all uh we've always believed we should meet clients where they wanna be met if they wanna come to a field office uh we're there to serve them if um they wanna call us on the phone if they don't wanna wait on the phone for the wait time they can take a call back and then uh you know as more and more people transact with us more and more wanna do it on the web if you look at what's happened uh i'd say the first thing that i'd say is you know we had a system that said appointment needed when you came to a field office appointment needed we sent people home we sent them home right those signs no longer exist uh and that was not only did we send those people home we sent the employees home So that was very convenient for everybody but somebody who wanted service. Uh and then we had a web down twenty nine hours a week. Uh by changing all that, what's actually happened is field office visits are down, uh because people can access on the us on the phone, like we said fiscal year to date we've answered and served thirteen million more Americans. We've saved Americans forty million hours of wait time. Uh, and our web traffic is up, um, thirty-seven percent. And we'll do eight hundred million, uh, interactions. Uh, three percent of them happen in field offices physically. But we have twenty-three thousand people there, and we're gonna serve the American public wherever they wanna be met.

Thank you, Commissioner, for for doing that. Um, this committee has been been working to improve access to gainful employment opportunities for Americans receiving disability benefits from the Social Security Administration. We recently advanced legislation sponsored by Congressman Austin Scott, a a strong advocate for disabled veterans, authorizing your agency to once again test potential policy changes that might improve access and remove barriers to work for social security disability insurance beneficiaries. At a hearing last fall, we heard from such beneficiary who who told us that if he hadn't had someone help him with the complex disability rules he would have, quote, graduated to the couch. Sadly, his experience is the exception to the rule. Less than one percent of beneficiaries leave the program for work despite sixty percent of beneficiaries indicating they would like to work. While legislative efforts are underway, what is the agency doing today to improve access or remove barriers to employment opportunities for Americans living with disabilities that receive s s a funded benefits

yeah um i think the number one thing is uh our own advocacy with uh employment networks because we have a deep belief that we can be advocates in a larger standpoint to have them understand uh these are fabulous fabulous americans who are capable uh obviously continuing a journey to uh work on things like ticket to work also which uh isn't on the initial disability but after and I think it needs to be a concerted effort uh locally and nationally and uh I look forward to working with everybody here on on making progress on this. This is this is uh real good work and the work that has to do as a person in the private sector who believed uh in in veteran employment and created the hundred thousand jobs mission, and that meant for disabled vets too. I understand how this can be done and we're gonna get it done.

You know, social security is not immune to the disease of fraud that that seems to have infected so many parts of government. As with other instances of the abuse and misuse of federal funds, fraud within social security robs not just taxpayers of hard-earned dollars, but beneficiaries of well-earned benefits. This committee advanced legislation through the House with unanimous support that would make it easier for victims of identity theft including parents of children whose social security numbers have been compromised to coordinate with the agency to resolve the matter. While that legislation sits over in the Senate like so many other good pieces of legislation, what is the agency doing to combat fraud within the program and to better service beneficiaries needing your assistance when they are victims of identity theft?

Well, we uh we are in the process right now of having dedicated resource just for person for identity theft I think that was job one. Uh, I think above that job is a conversation I had earlier which is um full reconciliation constantly of what is really the social security number database uh because many times that fraud doesn't happen within social security it happens in the other areas of government and elsewhere where that number gets used so the ability for us to stay vigilant on the reconciliation the ability for us to supply dedicated resource so people have a dedicated person to deal with and then continue continue data cleansing.

Thank you, Commissioner. Thank you, Chairman Estes and Chairman LeHood for holding this hearing.

Thank you, Chairman Smith. Um, I now want to recognize Miss Moore from Wisconsin for five minutes for questions.

Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, and welcome back, uh, Mister Commissioner, last time you were here you were the CEO of the IRS. But uh welcome back again. Um you have uh waxed on about the what do we call it, the speed of answer um calls that people make. And you say that calls are like ten minutes. Is that correct? Something like that?

Uh what was the word you used on the

Speed of answer metric.

No the I I di- I didn't hear what you were saying.

Okay well I'll share that with you because uh the um the uh American Federation of Government Employees Council two twenty, uh I have a statement for the record where they call, where they say the speed of answer metric was ten minutes. The Washington in March nineteenth of twenty twenty six, the Inspector General put out a report that said the actual wait time was more of what our constituents are telling us that it is is forty-six minutes to two hours. But um the the IG's report was scrubbed by somebody and they substituted a speed of answer metric, which was ten minutes. And so, Mister Chairman, without objection, I'm gonna uh uh for the record a statement from the American Federation of Government Employees um uh about this hearing and about the wait times.

Without objection, so ordered.

Thank you so much. Um, Mister Commissioner, uh you have said w- you know our experience, and I have a case worker in my district as do all of my colleagues it says that uh that uh that there have been so many reassignments of like twenty five hundred employees that had very specific skill sets that were all removed and and and put on these this eight hundred number so that when people do call the eight hundred number um the the question is that they you know depends on who answers the eight hundred call those person don't have the answers the skill set to help them. Uh, and so they don't get the proper answers that they get. Um, uh, uh, in in in in addition to that, um, that comports very much so with what my staff has shared with me, that, um, uh, that I guess in the in the i- that we have a ninety year low in the numbers of employees that the Social Security Administration has employed at a time when people like me, the baby boomers, that um, as Mister Larson points out all the time, that ten thousand of us turn to sixty-five every single day. And it seems sort of counter-intuitive. Um, i- is the eight hundred number and the shuffling of staff, is that b- i- is that supposed to realize some efficiencies that we haven't seen?

First of all, um, I think a good way to think about this whole situation is we used to have four hundred people on the phone at eight AM in the morning, and that was not a sufficient number. That was predating me. That would go back to the era that you well remember, where we told people appointments are needed. This was a sign from twenty four, they've been ripped down. Right? What we've seen is people send home to do work from home in field offices. Well, that's inappropriate.

OK, so so what I'm saying is is these I mean

That's not what field office is about. We we Go ahead, Rick.

I mean I'm just wanna know why I have some more. people are waiting on the phone for forty-six minutes and then when they finally do get somebody somebody can't answer their questions because they're not calling the correct benefit officer um Uh, and do you think the eight hundred number thing is supposed to be the magic bullet in place of having enough employees?

What I think in fact is we have the right amount of staff in the right places.

OK, that's, OK, well, we I don't agree with you on that, so no point in burning up my time.

Well, you you you wanna know how to manage fifty thousand people anyway.

OK. Um. I I can't resist asking.

Did you just say she doesn't know how to manage?

Yeah.

Wait, was I talking to you?

Yeah, it is my time and he can ask a question.

Fine, what question do you wanna ask during our time?

Did you just say that she doesn't know how to manage?

Fifty thousand people. So she, I don't know what

You know her capabilities of management?

Yeah, I do. She would understand us if she'd

Okay, thank you. I can't resist um asking you as the CEO of the IRS about the one point eight billion dollar representation fund and in addition no audits. Well, how can I get in on that deal where the IRS won't audit me? Is this something available to me?

I think uh this is the letter for this meeting. It's an SSA meeting. Uh,

I just want to get in on that.

treasury, treasury secretary commented on this in the ways of means committee you can

well you haven't answered any of my questions so far

the the the general the general lady's name has expired um i just uh wanna remind uh everybody that we're focusing on social security in this this uh this hearing to be able to talk about i know the uh commissioner uh does a lot of work we wanna make sure is this the ceo of any that we get uh social security information covered so at uh uh perseverance

that's okay

of committee practice we'll now proceed two to one questioning and now i'll i'll um recognize uh the gentleman from ohio mr. Currie for five minutes for questioning

I wanna thank the Chairman uh for for having this hearing today, uh, Mister Pizziano, Commissioner. I wanna thank you uh for taking the time to be here today. First, I'd really like to talk about and I know that you and I have had the opportunity to discuss some of the sex uh, the successes that you have had during your time in this position. Chiefly among them is something that this committee had the first hearing on, uh, in Louisiana, uh, which was the implementation of the Social Security Fairness Act. And I know you and I have briefly discussed that. I'd like to commend you for getting these payments delivered. And I think this is something that's pretty telling. You were able to deliver these payments to these hard-working men and women, uh, firefighters, teachers, police officers, five months ahead of schedule. This is quite an achievement, really. The Social Security Fairness Act, many of my colleagues, uh, on both sides was a bipartisan piece of legislation that many people elected to this office, um, took twenty years to get enacted. So in November of twenty-three, as I mentioned before, I chaired the first ever hearing on the bill in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. Then the bill was passed a year later, signed into law under President Biden. But it was the current Trump administration that implemented this. And I just wanna make sure I'm correct. It was the Trump administration that implemented the Social Security Fairness Act. Am I correct?

You're correct. Yes.

And I wanna thank you for clarifying that so that everybody understands the role that you played, um, in getting these benefits into the hands of the retired public servants that so desperately needed them. The work was not just identifying and providing, uh, it, but these numbers are staggering, more than seventeen billion dollars in retroactive benefits to three point one million of hardworking Americans. It was also adjusting the monthly benefits for all those people um, over the next, uh, for the future years. So, Commissioner, can you explain for all of us how your agency was able to execute this monumental undertaking so efficiently and so successfully?

Well, uh, first of all, thank you for the question.

Um.

And as I sit here, uh, I recognize that, uh, that in your, uh, district, that was fourteen million dollars. uh that went to more than twenty one hundred um recipients and in fact if you think about it uh within your district we're we're paying benefits of oral more than four hundred million um a month so a powerful powerful and your support is tremendous um i think when we came when i came in in may uh and checked on the status of it they said it would be done by uh eleven thirty

right

and um i asked the barriers and fundamentally the barriers were uh applying people to the work but what became very clear to me it was through a few meetings that we could technically solve the problem and much of the gains we've made in the agency has been through technology not through uh any other means you know you can't just throw people have problems in this day and age you gotta use technology uh so the cio and myself and the head of the processing center that was doing these uh spent some time and we were done by june thirtieth but it was a great technologist who i think are delivering a lot of what you hear here in enhancements uh whether it's on the web whether it's in the field offices or on the phone

and and i appreciate you pointing out um you know, the the numbers that were in our district, and I I just think for all of Ohioans, um, uh, because there are fifteen congressional districts, but the numbers that I had for all of Ohio, uh, approximately two hundred and twenty-three thousand Ohioans received a total of one point eight five billion as a result of this. And and again, uh, a credit to you. Um, I'd also like to take my last moment to turn attention to the impact that technology has done. But, uh, obviously I only have eight seconds and, uh, and w- hopefully we can get the wait time even further. But from forty-seven to five minutes, that's pretty good. So with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

Thank you. Uh, I now recognize Mr. Yackem from Indiana for five minutes for questions.

Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and, uh, Commissioner Bisignao, thanks for being here today. Uh, I wanna start by thanking you for taking the time to come and uh see me in my office uh here in advance of this hearing. I really appreciate the direct communication that you and I have. Uh you've been very responsive uh to me, your team is responsive to my team, uh we just wanna thank you for that. Uh also wanna say thank you for what you committed to over a year ago, which is to take a metric driven and a results oriented approach to operations. Uh you've s- you certainly as you look over the course of the last year, uh you've been someone that has led the change inside of social security operations. You can either lead the change or change the leader. And we appreciate the work that you've done and uh certainly hope that that continues into the future. Uh I'd like to to start uh with uh a question regarding something that you and I spoke about a year ago, and that was uh on March first, Martin O'Malley, uh President of Bi- the President of Biden's uh Social Security Commissioner, he predicted, and I quote, " Ultimately, you're going to see a collapse in the system and an interruption of benefits." He said, " I believe you will see that within the next thirty to ninety days." It's now been four hundred and sixty-six days since he has made that statement. Commissioner Bisniano has social security uh collapsed and have benefits been interrupted. Uh, I don't think they have. Uh, is that correct?

No, they've outperformed in double-digit fashion, but I kind of understand why he said that, because he was telling people who drove to your field office go home and appointments needed. He took field office employees and sent them home and disregarded the fact that the web was down twenty-nine hours a week. So, uh, I think maybe he had a formula for that, but thank the good Lord we had the support of all of you and the president to change that outcome.

Commissioner Bisniano, when when people like Barton O'Malley are out there making these apocalyptic statements, uh, when they're spreading these conspir- conspiracy theories, you know, hyperbolic predictions, how much more difficult is it

Well, I don't think it makes it any harder. You know, it's it's something we don't really pay attention to. Uh, you know, if you listen to the Bluebirds and right field, you're not gonna win games. Uh, our our career employees uh love what they do. Our leadership team has stayed intact, not one change on that team, and that's political and career. And I think they've risen to the occasion, they're proud of what they're doing, more proud than they ever have been. You know, we used to describe social security as, uh, seventy plus, uh, million recipients of payments and keeping, uh, you know, fifteen or twenty percent of the people out of poverty. I think that actually affected the self-esteem of the department, because most people they talk to every day are not a beneficiary. We have a disability process that is judges and, you know, we're dis- we're helping them through their process. And if you come to our field office, the number one thing asked for is a replacement card which we've built the technology for them not to have to come. So I think we've elevated the esteem that the department is the largest digital financial service provider in the world. You know, with a hundred and two million digital accounts, and yes, with only three percent of our volume coming into field offices and half our staff in field offices we will never close a field office.

Well, let's let's talk through some of those uh changes you made because the the number of beneficiaries continues to increase which makes social security even that much more important as we go into the future which of course that provides for, you know, there's The increased demand on your employees, uh increased demand on services, it could provide for a strain on systems, uh but of course the Hoosiers that I serve have the same expectations for quick service, quick decisions, uh and accurate solutions. In fact, your agency received roughly seven hundred and twenty-two million service requests in fiscal year twenty twenty five. That's a hundred and thirteen million more than the previous year, or a nineteen percent increase. What operational reforms are most

Well, um, we had something called IClaims, and IClaims sounded great if you did it, but it took a really long time to get ultimately finished, because what it was was, uh, a benefic- a claimant put their claim in online, but it never went through the system. Somebody else implemented it, fraught with errors. We've - we've determined that straight through processing,

Thank you, Commissioner. Mister Chairman, I yield back.

Thank you. I now recognize Miss Chu from California for five minutes for questioning.

Uh, Commissioner Bisognano, you used to have all kinds of data points on your website on customer service, but last year you took them down and instead you have one highly misleading metric, which is your celebration of reducing the average speed of answer on SSA's phone line from forty-two minutes back in twenty-twenty-four to now just five minutes. Is it accurate calculating this number your agency records a caller who selects the option to receive a call back as having a zero minute wait regardless of how long that call back takes to arrive I just want a yes or no answer

I'll tell you a couple of things um even though you want a yes or no answer

yes or no

first of all we have more metrics up than ever before on the web so let's just start there

ok so uh you're not answering this question

second second I'll answer your question the answer is yes And that's an industry standard across every industry. That's how it's counted because they get a call back.

Okay, so then thank you for that answer because that says yes. You record that as a zero,

I just told you that's an industry standard.

a zero minute wait. Well, I, okay.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, and what per cent,

We don't care about the max.

what percent of callers select uh, who select the call back option, what is their their current average wait to get that call back? Not the average speed of answer. but the wait time specifically to get a call back. And I heard your answer to Mister Davis earlier. I don't want the post-satisfaction survey, I want an actual number in terms of how long it takes for them to get a call back.

Takes today, uh, under thirty minutes on average. By the way, some take five minutes, right?

Well, okay. Then how about the next one, which is what is the current

By the way, they select it because it's better service.

What is the current average wait

Do you do you do you call eight hundred numbers?

What is the current average wait for callers who choose to remain on hold? Not the average speed of answer, but the average time callers wait on hold until they are able to speak with someone. I, again, I want a specific number.

I don't have that number in front of me, ma'am.

Forty six to two hours. Forty six minutes to two hours.

Okay, I do have the answers, I, to these three questions. One is, you record, uh, those who have a, uh, do the option for a callback as a zero minute wait. The percentage of uh callers who get the uh call-back option have to wait, according to the Inspector General, one hour and fifty-one minutes. And the courage uh current average wait for callers who choose to remain on hold is fifty-nine minutes. So, Commissioner, I find it extremely misleading that you're touting this so-called average speed of answer I don't I don't actually believe I actually don't believe of five minutes this what the Inspector General really wants to say. as improved customer service when the number has little to do with what the American people are really experiencing when they're trying to call SSA. In fact, this number of five minutes is dramatically lower than the actual wait times. And we know this because we hear countless stories from our own constituents about being stuck on the phone for hours. But we also have the data because the SSA's own Inspector General did a study this last December and found that the av- while the average speed la- last year in twenty twenty-five was sixteen minutes, the real average time for people on hold was almost an hour, and the average wait time to get a callback was almost two hours. And why was the actual average speed so much lower? Because every time somebody chose that callback option, your agency counted that as a wait time of zero. So the average lowered very dramatically. So, Commissioner, the American people deserve accurate information on how long they can expect to wait when trying to get help for their benefits and SSA used to share all that information on its web site but you did remove that last year and it makes one wonder whether you're trying to hide um the actual numbers when it comes to customer service. And that Brings me to another data point which is about the wait times for in-person appointments. And uh one news report followed a woman whose whose husband passed away in July of last year but couldn't get an in-person appointment to apply for survivor benefits until October, even though she had started calling SSA to schedule just days after her husband's death. That's three months of waiting just to start the process. Once she finally got an appointment, she then had to wait at least four months. So, I urge you to restore these real data points to your agency's web site website and update them regularly because the public deserves to know. And I yield back.

Well, thank you. I now recognize uh Mister Bean from Florida for five minutes for questioning.

Thank you very much, Mister Chairman, good morning to you, good morning uh Ways, and Means Committee, good morning, Commissioner, welcome back, uh, to Ways and Means. There's been talk of, uh, how you doing? Well, guess what, uh, Commissioner? I have your report card right here. Uh, let's review it, shall we? Uh, it says this, it says, you are now serving more Americans with fewer employees. Wait times on the national eight hundred number have shrunk by eighty-four percent. Wait times have gone from forty-two minutes to seven minutes. Uh, and you have uh taken uh the backlog of disability claims. Uh, it's been reduced by thirty-three percent uh from an historic high of one point two seven million pending claims in twenty-twenty-four. Thank you uh for doing that and uh it's pretty good. It's a, it's a report card that you should probably put on your refrigerator. That's how good this is uh, Commissioner. But you said in your open statement, " You're not done. You can do better." What can this committee assist you with to make those numbers E, put some pluses on those As. What can we do, Commissioner, to help you?

Well, I think, uh, being here is very helpful cuz it gets you to understand the strategy. The strategy is really about meeting clients where they wanna be met. The strategy is about understanding what is the expectation across industry in general.

Whatever you're doing, that recipe for your team has helped, it's helped my team. We don't get as many calls on, uh, help me with on social security, so thank you for uh for for doing that. Uh social security though has a history of trying to do their own computer programs and doing things that hasn't gone well in the past, so are you still looking at uh private vendors that can uh take us to the next level in processing I met with a company called Evolution IQ and I'm sure there's others, but this company uh just has worked for several states and they expedite claims uh and they also root out fraud, is that something you're looking at commissioner?

Yeah well we're we're uh always focused on how we're gonna bring advanced technology, you know um if you look at what we did with taking the twenty nine hours away of downtime off the web uh that was a mix of really great engineers inside and and some other people, uh if you look at what we're doing in fraud using advanced analytics So, you know, there's no great tech org that can just do everything themselves. And I think, uh, it's not about modernizing, it's about transforming, and transforming ultimately for the benefit of, uh, the American public, I would think,

Ten four.

yes.

And so you are looking at private vendors and whatnot,

Always.

anything that we can do to, uh, to, uh, to do better than we're already doing. Uh, I want to give you some time, and, uh, I know it's been publicized this week, twenty, thirty-two. is gonna be a crossover date where we have to make changes before that date. Make changes and uh I would hate to see that anybody in Congress would use fear, uh but we have to make sound decisions and we've got time to make some decisions. So I I wanna give you some time, your thoughts on that date, your thought on some of the changes, uh changes that could be made without affecting anybody that's already on the on the social security program. What say you, Commissioner?

Well, what I what I thought the first thing that was mandatory is uh to get it to work right. Right? You know, uh I always think if you make the operations better, people are prepared to invest in those operations. Uh and no matter uh what we wanna do, all we have to do is compare the data from twenty-four to date on how the American public's being served, and compare the data in our control environment. You know, we came, we - we took down control issues by fundamentally eighty percent and reduced, uh, you know, sixteen billion dollars of erroneous, uh, problems in our businesses.

No, and I know once we eliminate fraud, there's billions of still of payments that we've made. Bank robbers, uh, or people that have stolen money have to - have realized they don't have to rob banks anymore. They can just build the government or - or - or utilize uh fraud in a lot of spaces. What about your thoughts, I know we just got a little bit, but on on social security not having the funds going forward in twenty thirty two. What are your thoughts there of

Well, like I said, I always thought my job was to make it perform as well as possible so you all have a set of options and choices to decide on how this uh um great American program, which is you know fundamentally called by some the largest insurance program out there. Others could call it the largest retirement program out there. Uh, anyway, the idea is to make it perform well so you all can make the decisions.

K- Thank you for your service, Commissioner,

Thank you.

thanks for that information, and there will be b- some big d- big decisions that have to be made with this program. Mister Chairman, yield back. Thank you so much.

Well, thank you. Um, now recognize Mister Miller from Oh- Ohio for uh five minutes for questioning.

Thank you, Mister Chairman. Uh, good to see you again, Mister Bisognano.

See you.

Uh, and thank you for after our last hearing in the phone call and applaud you and your efforts for what you're doing in SSA. So it's good to see you again.

Good to see you.

So, social security is not an abstraction, it's a promise as we know, and to workers who spent decades contributing to families who lost an income earner, to Americans with disabilities, and to retirees who helped build this country. As you know, more than seventy-one million people depend on monthly benefits and this agency touches virtually every American family, it must work. For too long it didn't, outdated technology, antiquated processes, and the service model that left beneficiaries waiting sometimes over forty minutes on the phone to find the SSA for decades. The disability backlog reached an all-time high of one point two seven million claims. That, and it is, unacceptable. Progress is now being made, and we're very appreciative. Phone wait times have now dropped eighty-four percent. Field office wait times are down thirty percent. The disability backlog has been cut by a third, and Social Security Fairness Act was implemented months ahead of schedule. So applaud your efforts and your team on that. But progress is not a reason to stop. We must keep investing in technology that improves the experience for every beneficiary and greater efficiency must mean fewer improper payments. Every dollar lost to error or fraud is a dollar that should have reached someone who earned it. I also wanna raise an issue that deserves more attention. The barriers this system places on people with disabilities who want to work. Sixty percent of DI and SSI recipients say they want to, yet The ticket to work program is barely reaching them. Only one in ten has ever used it. A third have never even heard of it. Those who try f- to face a seventy year page guidebook, a punishing process that anyone would have trouble getting through, and a system so slow that even a proper wage reporting can trigger an overpayment months later, which is insane and unnecessary paperwork as we all know. Government programs should open doors and not build walls, so You know, Commissioner, as I stated above, about one in ten DI and SSI beneficiaries has used the Ticket to Work program, and a third have never even heard of it. Meanwhile, sixty percent of recipients say they want to work, so what specific steps are you and the SSA taking to simplify work incentive rules, improve beneficiary awareness, and critically fix the overpayment problem that truly punishes the people who try to return to work even when they follow the rules?

Yeah, I think those are uh all great uh points that are all uh being worked on. Why don't we start at the top because uh we are now uh and I would I would give the committee credit and uh you know Chairman LeHood uh for being dedicated to Ticket to Work and spending time with his office on Ticket to Work, and the real answer is greater education by every network out there. you know we put somebody in charge of the program there was no one in charge of it if you don't have someone in charge of it the odds of it succeeding is zero we do the same with SSI I think uh that allows us to go out to the outside and explain to him and to people on the inside uh who are on the program and we have an opportunity to talk to these people all the time our uh our own on disability and improving that dialogue so I think we're at the start I think the program did not have the attention if you don't have a dedicated we did on SSI and take it to work with a dedicated executive who reports into me and they run the program so I would expect to you know and happy happy to give updates as I have to chairman we heard on those items relative to improper payments the more we build out our payment information exchange which we do with uh you know massive orgs who have the data and we've really veered into it and the more we cut down payment cycles the better our uh accuracy of payment as opposed to improper payments will be and continue to be.

Thank you very much uh for that. detailed answer and response and I just wanna say as a social security administrator, you're doing a phenomenal job and previously when you were brought in here, uh, you know, I believe that I treated you very unfairly,

Oh, you're gonna do it?

so I do well, no, I it means a lot to me and I like to sleep at night, so I do wanna apologize in front of you and your entire staff and everyone in the committee, and people who are here, you were put in a very untenuous position and some you received something that you never asked for, uh, but you're doing the best that you can and I very much appreciate what you're doing on behalf

Well, you know, there's three hundred and eighty-one million dollars a month that go to your beneficiaries in your district uh so congrats for what you're doing.

Thank you. I now recognize Mister Horsford from Nevada.

Thank you, Chairman Estes, and to the ranking member. Uh, Commissioner, uh, last year you came before the committee and committed to ensuring that social security field offices would be better staffed, more efficient, and better equipped to serve the public. Today, Nevada families are experiencing something that's very different. In Las Vegas, disability hearing wait times averaged nearly eleven months, among the long longest in the nation. My office continues to hear from seniors, people with disabilities, and working families who cannot get answers and cannot access benefits that they deserve. Last year you promised improvements. Today, Las Vegas disability applicants are waiting nearly eleven months. Do you believe that that's acceptable, yes or no?

Well, what I know is that, uh, as an example, your field office wait times are down sixty percent. Right? And that uh, that's a thirty-four minute decrease from twenty-four. I'm not looking at your disability numbers and I'll come back to you on them, but if you look at our total disability numbers,

So I'm I'm s- I'm asking specifically about Las Vegas.

it I'll compare them with you,

And and spec-

cuz I I didn't hear you talking about the field offices.

I did. That's where I started.

You you talked about you started you started.

Eleven months, I just asked

Did you understand that?

I just asked if eleven months was acceptable.

Did you un- Did you understand?

or not, yes or no, is it acceptable

Did you Did you understand?

that people should wait eleven months?

Did you understand?

Commissioner reclaiming my time.

Did you understand?

I'm gonna sh- I'm gonna rather than us going back and forth, let me share a message from one of my constituents that that told me and my staff that they have been calling and visiting the local office for months, and nobody can tell them anything. My case has sat unresolved for seven months. I have no food, I can't pay my rent, and I'm facing eviction. Commissioner, that is not a statistic, that is a Nevadan. So will you designate a senior SSA point person to work directly with me in my office on unresolved constituent cases like this one, yes or no?

I'll give my head of disability to come see you in your office.

Thank you.

I right now show that you have seven pending

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner.

No, you don't wanna really deal with the numbers.

Commissioner. Commissioner, this week, Speaker Johnson said on a local radio program, social security, Medicare, and Medicaid need to be, quote, adjusted and fixed. Americans who rely on social security deserve a clear answer. Have you been involved in any discussions about reducing social security benefits, raising the retirement age, or restricting eligibility for benefits? Yes or no?

No.

That is important for me to know on the record. Now, I would like the speaker and my colleagues on the other side of the aisle to tell us what they mean by adjusted and fixed when it comes to Social Security, Medicare, and Ma- Medicaid. Um, let me turn to the issue uh around uh The average SSDI beneficiary receives about nineteen thousand dollars a year. The average retired worker receives about twenty-five thousand dollars a year. Should Americans who paid into Social Security their entire working lives have to wait eleven months for a disability hearing, yes or no?

Disability hearing time is an all time low.

Should they have to wait eleven months?

All time low, it's an all time low. How long you been standing up there, sitting there? How many years? How many years you been here?

So, ha- is it acceptable, sir?

Well, it's the best performance you've ever had, so you should think about that.

Well, it's not, uh, good enough for the people who paid into a system

Well, well, somehow you allowed it

and deserved

before to be worse.

I haven't allowed anything. Commissioner. Can you guarantee that no Nevadan social security number, earnings record, or medical information was shared with an unauthorized third party, yes or no?

Yes.

How and and you will state that for the record, that none of their personal information has been

I just

shared with a third party uh unauthorized third party.

I just said it.

All right. It is important because Americans trust Social Security Administration with their most sensitive personal information. And my constituents are not asking for excuses, they're asking for service. They earned these benefits and they deserve timely access to them. And I'll work with you, thank you for your commitment today, along with my office, to resolve these cases and reduce these unacceptable delays. whether it's eleven months, six months, or one month, they deserve their benefits. With that, I yield back.

I now recognize Mister Moran from Texas for five minutes for questioning.

Thank you, Mister Chairman. Uh, Mister Bis- Bisignano, thank you for being here today. As Commissioner, you oversee one of the most impactful agencies in the federal government, ensuring that millions of Americans receive their benefits. There's no question about that. Under your leadership and the leadership of President Trump, the Social Security Administration has made meaningful progress in reducing wait times, addressing backlogs, and improving service delivery for beneficiaries across the country. You've been citing a number of these statistics throughout the hearing today. I wanna give you, before I move on, a chance to uh respond because you were trying to provide Mr. Horsford some statistics for his district, but he cut you off. I'd like to give you an opportunity to finish what you were saying and cite those statistics.

Yeah, well, what I was saying is uh in twenty twenty four uh it took fifty six minutes in a field office uh to get served and today it takes twenty two i also know because we have a centralized system that never existed before that there are seven pending congressional inquiries with us from his office uh and we would like every one of them resolved but you know this is the pure real data captured the same way it was before we never knew how much was in congressional offices before until we built a system so we could know everyone. That's all I was trying to say, the facts.

Yeah, there's a great sh-

Would, would the gentleman yield,

Uh

since you wanna reference my district?

No, uh,

You reference my district but you wanna yield time to the member.

but I did wanna give the, I did wanna give uh, Mr. Boody, no, no, absolutely an opportunity.

Cuz my question was about the length in time.

I, I, sorry, I did not yield time. I did not yield my time. So, uh, I think that,

Then don't reference my district.

I think that's, I think that's really impressive. Out of eight hundred thousand people in a congressional district, that you have seven open claims in that district and that you've committed to resolve those claims, and that you've reduced those wait times significantly in the past year, to the lowest in record. So I think that's really impressive. You've also emphasized the importance of combating fraud and protecting beneficiaries who seek to uh uh to exploit the system. I believe members on both sides of the aisle share the goal of ensuring that Americans, particularly seniors, are protected from bad actors who target them for financial gain. Unfortun- unfortunately, many of these mal- malign actors operate from overseas, including from China. As the Social Security Administration's Office of Inspector General has noted, transnational criminal networks are increasingly targeting older Americans through sophisticated fraud schemes that steal billions of dollars each year. Far too often these criminals deceive victims into providing s- sensitive personal information or transferring funds, causing significant financial harm, and undermining confidence in government programs. "Mr. Commissioner, I remain deeply concerned about foreign actors targeting American seniors to fraud schemes designed to steal their benefits and sensitive personal information. Can you tell us what specific steps is the Social Security Administration taking to prevent foreign-based fraudsters and other bad actors from accessing beneficiaries' accounts or stealing their benefits?"

Well, um, the first thing I'd like to refer to is, uh, two key strategic things we did, uh, as I came in. um and assess the situation. We created a chief risk officer reporting directly to me and we went and recruited uh at a secret service and then uh the head of the park police to be the head of cyber security security and resiliency and why those are so important is that's the first lines of defense we have is having the right talent with the right expertise to be able to uh prevent fraud, identify bad actors. Um, obviously we've been very focused, you know, we do everything, uh the IG and ourselves work closely on uh all types of fraud prevention. And along with that, you know, I think highlighting uh in every imaginable way, communicating with our elderly. I think it's important that they recognize the scamsters out there Uh, yes, they did another another broadcast. We did slam the scam day with, uh, the Inspector General. We, uh, prevent elder abuse or just abuse they could have is people scamming them and, and their money. Uh, and we try to broadcast as much to all networks, you know, that, uh, how to protect their identity and that, uh, there's no federal agency that will ever call and ask them to do something that they wouldn't naturally do.

Yeah, and I think I heard you say earlier about these two new positions, that they were once lower positions and you've elevated them to report directly to you because of the significance and the impact. Did I hear that uh correctly?

Yes, sir. Yes.

Yeah, I think that's the right way to go, but and that should send a message to the American people that you're serious about protecting their data and their the funds that are coming to them. That's the kind of reorganization and the management of fifty thousand employees uh that we've needed for a really long time. We appreciate the work that you're doing. Mister Chairman, I yield back.

Thank you. I recognize Mister Feaster from Iowa for five minutes for questioning.

Uh thank you Chairman Estes, I greatly appreciate holding this, I thank you also uh Commissioner Bisognano for coming. Um I'm just so impressed, I appreciate what you have done uh for this agency. Uh it's just have seen tremendous progress since you've been there from reducing uh, the phone and field office wait times to modernizing the agency and strengthening internal internal oversight. You know, I just heard you talk about fraud and prevention of it. Uh, kudos to you for addressing that. That has not been done in decades. And you've done that, uh, delivering faster, more reliable service to millions of Americans, uh, is really making a difference to my beneficiaries. And I'm very grateful for all your leadership. Um, I'm also glad to see that, uh, the CBO's most recent ten year economic outlook concludes an easy to understand graph showing scheduled and payable benefits that my uh Bill called for in the uh Save Your Seniors Act. Uh, we gotta have transparency. I think every person in the country needs to know where uh where SSA stands. Uh, this is this is key. Um, as we move forward, uh, Bissiano, can you talk about transparency and how we can continue to improve our system? uh for all Americans when it comes to social security administration

yeah well i think uh what we like to do is insure the information that we're providing equals what the American public wants to know and i think most of all you know understanding what happens in a field office uh what happens on the phone and what happens on the web And uh I think that's the way they transact with us. And then on the web, having them availability to do everything they can, including getting their Benny statement.

That's right.

Uh and of course not everybody can print it at home, um but of course many can come in our field office and get that whenever they want. Uh we're building better functionality that if they can't print it at home, but they have the web, that we'll print it right there for them and waiting for them. Uh, you know, uh, I think social security with over a hundred million digital users and over three hundred million social security numbers serving America uh is the number one personal identifier for

That's right.

everybody and protecting that is is first and foremost.

Yep.

I agree, I agree. So this predates uh your tenure at the agency. The GAO raised long-standing concerns about the weakness in the SSA's oversight and governance. of the IT investments. For instance, before you took over as commissioner, the SSA spent multiple years and paid a hundred and sixty million in transition for the national eight hundred number phone systems to the next generation, the telephone uh project, just for the agency to abandon the system in August twenty-four. What changes have you made to strengthen accountability for major IT investments? I mean, I I see IT so critical as we're moving forward in this uh in this agency. Can you just briefly talk about that?

Yes. Um, I think the first thing is, uh, management visibility. And so we built this tool, uh, which is a, a great tool, and our technology org is delivering more than I ever had, which allows, uh, all projects to have full visibility to all those engaged. And any date change or dollar economic change gets flashed immediately. so call it's called uh SSA three sixty but every project has an ROI to it and we manage it uh in a diligent fashion and I think that's a big governor to how we run the place you know we look at the numbers we insure projects are on track and we insure it's getting the desired result

hey can you also uh so so you got that moving forward which is awesome how do you allow your workforce to to be trained in

No, I think um I think you'll always have some balance of needing uh external expertise and internal expertise. That would be true everywhere in the world, not just here. I think it starts off with uh, and I'll give a shout-out to LCI O. Uh, I think if you ask the great people who have spent their careers in social security, we actually have a technologist in charge of technology,

Sort of important.

right? And and I think there is no substitute for experience. Uh as a matter of fact he was a technologist for a payment company, and if you look at the heart of one of the main things we do, it's payments.

Yep.

Uh and I think our CIO does an outstanding job.

Well, I just want to tell you, I think you're a rock star in what you're doing in this this agency, Commissioner. Thanks for all your work and I yield back.

Again, I recognize Mister Evans from Pennsylvania for five minutes for questioning.

Thank you, Mister Chairman. Thank you for being here, Mister Commissioner. Part of this administration failure on social security has been taking back payments. Sometimes social security payments, someone pays more through no fault of their own. When President Trump returned to office, He brought back holding a personal's check to withhold payments. Later it was brought down to fifty percent, but it still is too high. I have a bill to cap withholding down to fifty percent, but still too high. I have a bill to cap withholding for at ten percent. We must pass this bill to protect America's earned benefits. Our seniors should not be forced to choose between rent, food and health care. I say those things to you, Mister Commissioner, because people have real concerns.

Could you uh could I apologize and ask you to move your mike a little closer,

As I say

Mister Evans?

I say those things to you because people have real concerns. about the withholding of payments and the fact that part of this message of failure of social security has been taking back payments when President Trump returned to office he brought back withholding a person's check to withhold these payments. Later it was brought down to fifty percent, but it's still too high. I have a bill to cap withholding at ten percent. We must pass this bill to protect Americans Earned benefits. Our seniors should not be forced to choose between rent, food and our health care. So I stress that to you, Commissioner, because this is earned benefits. This is some people have earned. They should make sure we should make. So I want to yield the balance of my time to you. If you have any comments, give me comments. Thank you, Mister. Thank you, sir.

Oh, shame. I now recognize Mister Moore from Utah for five minutes for questioning.

Thank you, Chairman. Thanks for being here, Mister Commissioner. First, I wanna thank you for your work that you've done to modernize the Social Security Administration as well as, you know, bring in technology to try to, uh, enhance the experience. Uh, only in Congress could you, as a recovering management consultant, only in Congress could you come and get criticized for using industry standards and KPIs and measuring yourself against uh these these these indicators that can actually help you improve. So just know that it's appreciated and the and the work that you're doing is is is definitely valuable. I'd like to enter for the record on the importance of technology modernization from Atticus a company dedicated to helping beneficiaries navigate the SSA I'd like to re- uh enter this record um this letter on the uh into the record.

Without objection, so ordered.

Thank you. First question, uh relates to the disability insurance beneficiaries who are able to work. and are starting the process of re-entering the workforce. As these Americans explore work opportunities, one of the major questions they have is how their current benefits may be impacted after returning to work this information is not readily available and often takes months to get from SSA how can the SSA help these beneficiaries uh can they provide them and their representation with this information can it be done through online access just a little bit of thoughts there.

Yeah I think uh I think all the above Um, and what you're highlighting is something that I think we should also work with, the advocate community, and create the right portal for them for their own individual situation so they have a basic statement, um, that tells them everything they're asking. They don't have to navigate. And I'm happy to get the team to go look at that, go to the advocate community, make sure we have alignment, on what good looks like and produce it.

Is this stuff enhanced online capabilities for advocates could be able to access that even better than some beneficiaries as well as um making the disability insurance beneficiaries is it can be done something that's in real time?

Yeah.

Okay, awesome. Um I w- I'm there's a I wanna talk quickly about walk-in. I know there's been back and forth on on walk-in appointments, uh as as you know I represent Northern Utah and then there's an Ogden office. Uh, I've spoken with community members, heard multiple concerns about some of the inconsistencies with walk-in options at the Ogden SSA office. As I understand it, SSA officially ended walk-in appointments in early twenty twenty four but Ogden office only stopped them for a few weeks before resuming uh at one point Ogden SSA was I think the only location in Utah to offer walk-in appointments. And now the Ogden office has again stopped the in-person appointments, difficult for some members of the um community and the beneficiaries to to navigate everything online, they do like a do they do like an option to be able to walk in. Can you provide an update on current status of walk-in appointments and work you're doing to ensure the um top-tier customer service continue at SSA?

Well, this sign was in all the offices. Appointment needed. Appointments are required for most services at Social Security. I'm disappointed to hear about Ogden, cuz Love it.

and we'll help however we can.

I gotta go figure out what's going on there.

Great. Let us u- u- use our office, our resources, uh, as we're close to it. Um, we'll be, we'll be all in to be able to help navigate this and I,

Yeah.

I think everybody from your end, uh, through the local offices, our office all want ultimately what's best and, and, and ease of use and so we'll do, we'll do what we can.

Yeah.

Um, one last question. Uh, we're tracking that SSA recently joined the Trusted Exchange Framework and Common Agreement. TEFCA, it's a net network for transmitting electronic health information. It's a standards body that sets rules and baseline requirements for health information network across the country. How will joining this network speed up the process of DI claims?

Well, you know, um, it's broader than just that's an element of it, right? Uh, we're, we have a system that, uh, is coming in effect that should just completely transform what this process is uh in terms of getting to decisioning a lot quicker the whole objective is decisioning a lot quicker uh of course if you went back over time the size of a file has completely changed but i think we could revert it all back uh we will uh you know use ai in the process too to help us uh get information to uh those who need it a lot quicker than possible so you know we're in relentless pursuit on every indicator and the place to just continually to get a historic best norm so i i have great i have great expectations to the exchange i have great expectations for what we're doing in the base build we're doing and i i think we should never talk about times going up but only down in the future for the rest of our lives.

Thanks for bringing a business approach to this. Appreciate it, Niel Bek.

Thank you.

I can now recognize Mister Smucker from Pennsylvania for five minutes for questioning.

Thank you, uh, to the Chairman. Thank you, Commissioner, for, um, your work at, uh, at Social Security. Um, and I wanna wanna go back maybe to the beginning of this hearing, some of the comments that ba- been made by the ranking member, um, who, um, I have great deal of respect for because i know he cares so deeply about um this program and i agree with uh much of uh what he said in that this is i think social security uh critically important to hundreds or i don't know how many million people you know that number but uh it and it's probably the best anti

three hundred over three hundred million absolutely

so hundreds of millions um over three hundred million and it's probably the best anti-poverty program that we have going. This is designed to ensure that uh our elderly senior citizens do not live in uh poverty. Um and so I think we agree um on much of that. I do wanna push back just a little bit on the efficiency portion of it. The two don't need to be at odds with one another. Like we really want, first of all, the promises that have been made people who have been paying into the system to be upheld. We want people to be confident that they're going to have the benefits that they've been promised. Um, so that's really important, but we also want them to be able to access that, um, in an, like, when they call in, we want them to get the responses. Um, and we want you as a commissioner to design a system where we're insured that every single dollar is going to the individual whose promise has been made and not to uh someone else. So I just wanna say I appreciate the work that you're doing to try to drive uh a more efficient system to deliver those um important benefits. And when I hear things like the wait time has gone down from forty-two minutes to seven minutes, I think that's pretty good uh result for people who are who are calling in, wait times of field offices reduced by thirty percent, I I don't know if these are all accurate but this is what's in front of us. I can tell you the social security system is uh of of federal agencies where individuals call into our office it's one of the top, and I'd love to see that reduced because we know that it's working better, so I want a more efficient system, um and I think we should all um want that. Um, I'd, I also agree, uh, and I, I'm gonna want you to respond to this, um, as, as a trustee of the system, knowing the, the report you just put out, the trustees put out, um, yesterday, that says that social security will no longer, will be unsolvable, uh, essentially, uh, by, uh, within six years. Um, and barring an act of Congress, um, everyone would get a reduction of twenty-two percent of their benefits. Um, I don't think people really get that or understand that. And in fact, I saw, I just was discussing a poll yesterday that, uh, only thirty percent of the American people had any kind of inkling that that was the case. And I think it's incumbent on us to solve that and I want members of the public to be calling in, uh, and demanding that their members of Congress be taking action. Um, and yes, um, uh, you know, you could raise the payroll tax, but that won't solve it. You know, that'd be one potential thing. And in fact, if you did it only through taxes, it would be the largest tax increase on younger wage-earning people that we've ever the largest increase we've ever um seen. And I'm just not sure if it's fair

The gentleman yield.

Well, I'm almost out of time. I'd love to have you respond, but I'm not sure it's fair to be demanding a lot more from our wage earners today to help individuals when there's no wage, when there's no income cap for those earnings. So, for instance, another change we could potentially make would be to means test it, so that it truly is a anti-poverty program. And I'd love to have this discussion, would love to work with Mister Lawson and and the chairman to uh to help solve this we've gotta do it and we can do it and insure benefits uh are kept. But as a trustee, uh what responsibility do you feel that the, that you have as a trustee to help people understand the situation that we're in and what are your plans to help make the public more aware of the situation we're in? So they're calling their members of Congress and asking them to solve it.

Well um

You have a second answer for that. I'm sorry.

Yes. Uh no I'm

No, uh literally, what what

Well I I I I you know I thought the first respond I've I've I've look at uh I'm a commissioner of solar security and it's a six year term and I understood that during that period of time or at least I was hopeful that we would solve this problem. Right so I I came into this understanding we needed to fix something. Uh, I think the first thing was to, uh, work on the President's mandate, protect and preserve. And to protect and preserve meant to do exactly what we're doing, serve the American public better, so in fact it would give you all the opportunity to think about what is right and hear from your constituents. Um, and then, and then lastly, uh, I think higher quality costs less. So this idea, I don't really think of it as efficiency. I think about quality for the American public, and we should be able to do it with less fraud, less waste, and less abuse, and we see that in billions of dollars. So I thought that was job one, and empower you all to feel confident that we have something that can last for another ninety years, in its way to operate, and then in fact say, what are we gonna do about it? Um,

The

and we'll get, I think as a trustee,

ch-

we produce a trustee's report that tells everybody the facts.

Thank thank

Thank you, Mister Chairman, I appreciate the intelligence.

Thank you. Gentlemen, this time's expired, now recognize Mister Buyer from Virginia for five minutes for questioning.

Yeah, Mister Chairman, thank you, Mister Ranking Member. Um, and Mister Pistigiano, thank you for coming back again. Uh, I had a chance to recently visit uh my social security office uh for a morning. Uh, I was impressed, great people. Uh, they love their work, they love helping people. The one uncomfortable part is that they all felt overwhelmed, um, that to catch up on the paperwork after meeting with customers all day, it'd often work end of the evenings or have to come in on Saturdays. Um, it was one month for an appointment, and if you did the walk-ins, which they s- were still taking, it was basically you s- you waited all day. Um, and I know, you know, you go back a year, it was you know, hundred and twenty minute wait times, so I appreciate that you identified addressing phone wait times was an important priority and but previously when employees were temporarily assigned to phones or in emergency situations they apparently received months of training, and they shadowed a full-time phone operator. Now it's reported that they're getting three hours of training before being placed on phones basically the same day, and that they're sometimes given bizarre and dangerous instructions, let me quote from Government Executive, which is not a left-wing newspaper, that the the Social Security Administration's instructed employees newly assigned to answering phones, to tell callers expressing suicidal thoughts, that suicide is only one option. Can you take responsibility for the poor training for newly assigned employees, and why not just get new trained staff rather than move the existing staff over temporarily? The this the notion that the demand for the phone call stuff even with the move to on-line's not going away.

Yeah, I think that uh let's let's make sure we got our facts right, I always like that um. In twenty twenty four in your district the wait time in field offices was seventy seven point eight minutes. The number produced before I was here, it wasn't my number. But we used the same exact methodology that we use there. Today, the wait,

Mr. Commissioner, the

today, the wait time in your field offices are eighteen point six minutes. That's sixty minute, that's sixty minutes less.

That, Mr. Commissioner,

Th- these, these

that was not, that, I appreciate that, and I'm not not questioning those,

Well, I think

w- my ask was what about the training for the temporary people?

Congressman, Congressman, Congressman. Right? This is a holistic thing we do, serving Americans. right whether they call on the phone whether they walk in the field office whether they go on the web right and sec

what do you think about what do you think about one of your members your phone call was telling people with suicide active suicide thoughts that is just an option I shouldn't that that's hardly best best practices

I think we needed I think we amended that message and by the way

that that's

we got that from an authority and we went back to the authority Right, if you wanna make that what this hearing is about, that's kind of fine. We could talk about that one line. We can also talk about the fact that your wait time's gone seven down seventy-six percent.

L- l- l- l- l-

We can also talk about the fact that field office visits are down three percent.

Let me reclaim my, reclaim my time, sir. I, uh,

We can

I just wanted you to say that you were actually addressing the issue.

We addressed it,

I mean, I'm not encouraging people to

we addressed it four months ago when it occurred.

Okay, good. Let me also move on to one of the most frequent complaints I have right now, is that it's impossible to get any help from GSA for either the LoginGov or the ID me. And I think it's a fine thing to move everything to SSA, but right now, c- my constituents are stuck dealing with these access issues on their own. And it often takes them, once again, a month to get the appointment to come and to get them summoned so that they can go online so they can do the modernization. So are there any plans to improve logins for my SSA from GSA and ID me?

I'd say it's a top, it's a top priority. It's a top priority. A top priority.

Good, good. Thank you. One last question, Mister Schmucker and I championed a bill that would redefine the claiming age categories. Um the simple terminology change, minimum, benefit age, early eligibility age, I'm sure you know about it. Do you anticipate these terminology changes over over time will make the backlogs reduce? Will it be helpful for you if we pass this?

I'm I've never actually thought that uh they would change backlogs, but I I mean I'm I'm an I I'm I'm supportive of what you wanna do and I don't think those are the key if that's your key driver to that it's probably not the answer we gotta reduce backlogs always that's all we ever do is reduce backlogs

OK well

and to the point where there are no longer backlogs there are inventory

well we're we very much appreciate reducing backlogs and before you'll like to submit the government executive article for the record

Without objection, so ordered.

Thank you. I yield back.

Thank you. I'd like to thank uh Commissioner Misignano for appearing before us today. Please be advised the members have two weeks to submit written questions to be addressed later in writing. Those questions and the answers will be made part of the formal hearing record.

Mr. Chairman, could I I neglected to submit for the record,

Yes, Blarson.

could I just uh wanted to submit the uh Ways and Means for public and social security data and this article from a payment dive.

Without objection, so ordered. With that, subcommittee stands adjourned.

Yeah.