Nomination of Duncan for Deputy Director of Office of Management and Budget

i'd like to thank everybody for being here today and our nominee uh mister duncan congratulations welcome to the committee and uh i'll make a brief opening statement oh

he's not a playboy

i thought he was already here yeah they told me there he is magically appears as he always does on time under budget

hold this one

anyway uh if it's ok so to start now is that alright senator good great

i'm here i made it

you did make it let it be

oh i made it

now now we can start

let let it be known that in in louisiana time this is early yeah

i made it oh my god i'm so sorry

anyway uh mister duncan was nominated by president trump to be the deputy director of the omb as previously held by dan bishop who is now us attorney for the middle district north carolina He currently serves at OMB, Mr. Duncan, as Associate Director for Legislative Affairs and Executive uh Associate Director. He was delegated to duties of OMB Deputy Director not long ago. Um, Mr. Duncan's previous jobs include Legislative Director for Congressman Chip Roy, uh, working in Senator Toomey's office, and at the National Senatorial Committee, so you understand it all on our side. Hal Duncan grew up in uh Texas and graduated from University of Virginia, which is quite a journey. He currently lives in Washington DC with his wife Amy and son Patrick. Welcome to them. Um, from my point of view, you understand the agency, you've been over there for a while, you're acting in the role that we're, you've been nominated for. I've had a good meeting with you. Uh, you're young and enthusiastic and smart. just like everybody on this committee so i think you'll do very well sir mark

uh thank you very much uh chairman garland and thank you mister duncan for uh joining us today and i appreciate your dropping by to talk yesterday today we consider your nomination to be deputy director of omb and it's a position of immense responsibility the deputy director serves as a number two and it's chief operating officer overseeing day-to-day operations as well as helping to manage budget information and regulatory oversight and policy implementation across executive branch. That is a vast, vast portfolio. It's a Senate confirmed position since nineteen seventy-four and our twenty-two previous deputy directors have brought decades of budget, management, or legislative experience to this role. I'm concerned, Mister Duncan, that your resume is a bit thin, so I'll look forward to your comments about your experience today. less than two years as associate director of omb s office of legislative affairs two years as legislative director as a member of the house for a member of the house and working on the hill less than two years in the republican senate campaign committee over the next year omb is requesting a budget of a hundred and seventy nine million six hundred and forty five employees so that's a a vast oh well set of um uh personnel and responsibilities in comparison to some of your previous roles. It's a complex agency, hundreds of employees, highly technical uh issues, many fields of expertise. Furthermore, in your current role as Associate Director of OMB's Office of Legislative Affairs, OMB has essentially stonewalled Congress and this committee uh not responding to a single letter that I have sent. And I don't, it may be different. Maybe that's only on this side of the aisle. and not the other side of the aisle but that would be a concern as well because really the executive branch needs to work with both sides of the aisle so a question i would pose if as legislative director one of the simplest tasks which is making sure that letters from congress are responded to if you have not been able to succeed in that role why do should we feel you're prepared for this much more complex role. I look forward to your uh response to that. Since President Trump and Russell Vogt have returned to office, they have repeatedly violated the Constitution's separation of power, usurping Congress's power to declare war through President Trump's war of choice, usurping Congress's power to tax through President's tariffs, which the Supreme Court ruled were unconstitutional, usurping congress's power that per starting programs that are unauthorized, ending programs that are authorized and funded. On seven separate occasions, GAO has found that OMB violated the basic separation of powers of our constitution. I'd like to know whether you have studied this and whether you're prepared to make sure that the constitution is defended in omb s actions also there has been the firing of thousands of federal workers who are there to execute the vision laid out by congress we do have a constitution where congress lays out the vision and congress lays out the funding and the authorization but if the people are fired then that vision is not uh executed so concerned about that it'd be different if legislation have been passed saying downsize this significantly or do not spend these funds or reduce the funds one of the agencies that that was very dramatic was the dismantling of usaid we talked about this yesterday and you noted to me that the responsibilities had simply been transferred to the department of state i did not find that to be a a full incredible answer since essentially yes there was a transfer but in the process its responsibilities and and portfolio were dramatically decreased. Leading our various departments uh or schools of public health to estimate that about five hundred thousand children have died as a result of the sudden shutdown, sudden shutdown of programs for malaria, HIV AIDS, tuberculosis, nutrition, and dysentery. That's a huge consequential action for the executive take in action dismantle a program that's authorized and funded by Congress, resulting in the death of hundreds of thousands of children. If the president doesn't want that program, he needs to ask us not to fund it, not uh not to authorize it, not to shut it down on its own. I'd like to know your opinion about whether in the future you will oppose shutting down programs when Congress has funded them and authorized them. And I'm concerned about the budget proposal put forward by OMB because it does nothing to help families struggling with affordability nothing on gas prices nothing on grocery prices no plan to address or save social security which will start running out of money in just five to six years no plan to help farmers affected by the high diesel prices and the fertilizer prices no meaningful revenue proposals to help reduce the deficit in fact no plan to pay for the war in iran throughout all of this you have been at omb which raises concerns will you be simply a rubber stamp or will you fight to defend the constitution and the balance of powers laid out in our constitution i look forward to your thoughts thank you

thank you would you please rise raise your right hand you solemnly swear the testimony before this committee will be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so have you adieu well thank you i'll start off and i think we got uh pretty good list here um open statement promise me you gonna answer letters open statement

yes sir

oh that's right yeah forgot excuse me clearly i'm not gonna listen to it but go ahead Go ahead.

Merk. Thank you, Chairman Graham, Ranking Member Merkley, and members of this esteemed committee for holding this hearing. I am humbled and honored by the opportunity to come before you as President Trump's nominee for Deputy Director of the Office of Management and Budget. I want to begin by thanking my wonderful wife, Amy, and my delightfully rambunctious son, Patrick, for joining me today. And let here's to hoping that Patrick is not escorted out by Capitol Police at some point in this hearing. I would not be in this position without their love and support. I also want to thank my mom, dad, and brother for traveling from Texas to support me, as well as my in-laws who traveled from Richmond, Virginia to be here. I hope this hearing will help answer the question my family often poses to me. So what exactly do you do? Of course, I also want to thank Director Vogt. It has been the honor of a lifetime serving alongside Director Vogt at OMB for the past year and a half, as we worked to put an end to fiscal futility, and deliver on the bold agenda set forth by President Trump. Former Deputy Director Dan Bishop testified before this committee that director vote was the man to get management of the federal government back on track. That, of course, has proven correct ten times over. If confirmed, I look forward to serving as director vote's deputy and continuing our work to support the president and protect the American taxpayer. While relatively unknown and small in size, OMB's mission is broad and its reach is wide. OMB crafts the President's budget, manages the federal government, reforms regulations, and coordinates policies across agencies. I believe this work is best characterized by the quiet competence the agency exhibits in support of the President and thereby the American people. OMB's career staff are among the best and brightest in the federal government, and it has been a pleasure to work with them and learn from them as Associate Director for Legislative Affairs and Executive Associate Director. I joined OMB in January, twenty twenty five, with the goal of working with Congress to address out of control spending and implement President Trump's plan to usher in a new golden age for America. I've been particularly proud to work with members and staff of this committee to develop and pass two budget reconciliation bills that directly reflect that goal, the Working Families Tax Cuts Act and the Secure America Act. The Working Families Tax Cuts Act cut taxes for American families and businesses while achieving two trillion dollars in mandatory savings and securing generational investments in defense and homeland security. The Secure America Act built on that success by providing sustained funding for the brave men and women of ICE and Border Patrol, who work every day to secure our border and keep our community safe. I was also proud to work with this body to pass the first stand-alone recisions package since nineteen ninety-two, which cut nine billion dollars in wasteful and weaponized spending. Building on that success, we worked together to complete the fiscal year twenty twenty-six appropriations process in a fiscally responsible manner. We have made historic progress in righting our fiscal ship over the past eighteen months, but there is more to be done. I believe we owe it to American families to be relentless in our pursuit of a federal government that spends taxpayer dollars wisely, delivers services efficiently, and reduces regulatory burdens. If confirmed, that pursuit will drive me as Deputy Director and I commit to maintaining a strong relationship with Congress to ensure our impacts are enduring. Thank you for considering my nomination. I look forward to your questions and the opportunity to discuss how OMB can continue to deliver on its vital mission.

Well, thank you. Well done. So Um, so when your family asks you what you do, what do you tell them?

Um, so, currently, as you know, I serve as, uh, Associate Director for Legislative Affairs. Um, in that capacity I work with directly with Congress, um, to advance the administration's spending priorities. Um, I think some of the things that I mentioned in my testimony are

If they ask you what would you do in your new job, what would you tell them?

It's a great question. I think of a lot of it as a con- con- um, continuation of what I've been doing as Executive Associate Director. I view that as a more internal facing role in which I represent OMB uh in meetings with agencies um coordinating with uh, my counterparts across the different agencies and within the executive office of the president in fundamentally managing or supporting the management of OMB, uh, its career and political staff, uh, writ large across all of its branches.

And how long have you been doing this job you're in now?

Um, I have been with the administration since the first week of uh President Trump's nomination. So I believe since January twenty twenty, uh, January twenty fourth, twenty twenty five.

How long have you been acting direct uh deputy? the job you're in now, how long you've had that?

Sh- uh, appreciate the question. I don't remember off the top of my head when I was delegated the duties. I believe it was uh late last, it was sometime late last year.

OK, for a while.

Yes, sir.

You feel comfortable doing the job?

Absolutely, comfortable and very excited uh by the opportunity, if confirmed.

OK. If we write letters to you, will you answer them?

Yes, sir.

Good. Um, let's talk about the budget real quickly. The budget's kind of an outline. that the president submits to congress and kind of a a view of what we should be doing uh as a nation do you support the president's uh defense budget request

senator absolutely i think the threats that we've seen in this world uh necessitate uh that level of defense spending

so you think it's justified right

absolutely

ok um during the biden years they submitted budgets too very few of them were improved at um approved as submitted what's the biggest difference between you you this omb and biden in terms of budget

absolutely i think um we've seen uh the successes of the past um fiscal year twenty twenty six we were able to secure um a uh defense top-line of one trillion dollars um, by using both the mandatory and discretionary strategy. Uh, the president has recently, uh, recommitted to that strategy as recently as last week, calling for Congress to pass, um, three hundred and fifty billion dollars worth of mandatory spending for, um, our defense. So, I believe we use the strategies that we have proven work, um, over the past year and continue to move forward to deliver, um, to provide for the defense of the American people.

If we can't pass a supplemental, through the appropriations process dealing with defense and other matters uh democratic friends will want some some things too um do you believe a third reconciliation bill focusing on defense and fraud would be justified

yes sir absolutely

are you ready to work with this committee to craft that reconciliation bill if necessary

yes sir absolutely we've done two together and i'm looking forward to a third

so what areas would you focus on other than

Well, I think, um, in terms of fraud, supporting the work of the Fraud Task Force is certainly critical. Um, I've been honored to be OMB's designee to the Fraud Task Force and have been able to see how the Vice President and his team have used the task force to coordinate, uh, amongst the agencies to root out waste and fraud to a degree we've not seen, um, in recent memory. So fundamentally,

Oh, thank you. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. So, in your prepared remarks, you noted, I'm committed to maintaining a strong relationship with Congress. So I I noted in my introductory comments that none of the letters that i've sent and i have here the all six letters to omb none of them have been responded to yeah you just committed to mister graham's chairman graham that you're going to respond to letters if you couldn't make that happen as legislative liaison when it's a pretty straight forward simple task why why would there be such a change in your new position.

Well, Senator, uh, first of all, I appreciate the question and thank you for meeting with me last night. Um, as mentioned in our, uh, meeting last night, some of the letters that we discussed, uh, did, uh, would have asked for the disclosure of pre-decisional and deliberative information, also information r- directly related to ongoing court actions. Um, but that being said, uh, we are committed to improving our letter process. We've been in the process of, um, implementing a new, um, uh, process to uh speed up response timelines um to letters so we're looking forward to that and and hope to work with you on that as well

ok well i just consider zero out of six a pretty bad batting average and as we discussed yesterday certainly even when there is future uncertainty regarding lawsuits or or future actions doesn't mean you can't can't respond it means you can respond and say here are the here are the restraints here are the restrictions and so i strongly encourage a very different uh uh approach to communicating with congress uh i wanted to turn uh to um basically this this question of when you became the acting director deputy director

uh the exact time line um senator

you mentioned last night november or december of last year so that's

so it was about november or december i actually wasn't able to go to the office um um this morning um post our meeting yesterday so i'm happy to follow up as the exact timeline that I was delegated to duties um and I can do that in QFRs or or right after this hearing

so it was only five months after basically November that we learned that you had adopted or been delegated these responsibilities as head of legislative affairs wouldn't that have been relevant to fill in Congress that this was your your new role

Uh, Senator, I appreciate the question. Um, obviously we were working on a nomination timeline, um, as well. I was delegated the duties, um, in, uh, uh, Dan Bishop's absent, which effectively has been, um, filling in for him in his, uh, duties in that time period. But certainly understand the point. Um, but, uh, my nomination went up, uh, in April, um, and I look forward to, uh, working with you, um, on, uh, OMB related topics if confirmed.

Do you believe the twenty twenty election was rigged?

Um, I believe that Joe Biden was certified as the winner of the twenty twenty election.

He was certified, yes, but do you believe the election outcome was rigged?

Senator, I appreciate the question, as mentioned I believe that Joe Biden was certified as the uh winner of the twenty twenty election.

Good. Uh, duly noted that you're not responding to the question. Uh, you're familiar with the impoundment control act.

Yes, Senator, I am.

And there is a essentially a constitutional understanding that has been reinforced by the supreme court twice that the power of the purse cannot be delegated to the president no matter how much the president wants to cancel programs that are authorized and funded or start programs that aren't funded doesn't get to decide that and yet what we're seeing is programs getting canceled like uh canceled like i mentioned with the id will you defend the separation of powers and throw up a cautionary yellow flag and express some concerns if the strategy of omb is to cancel an authorized and funded program

well senator i certainly appreciate the question um i firmly commit to upholding the constitution um as you know uh the president ran on restoring the empowerment authority it's an authority that presidents had exercised for over two hundred years um and we have that being said we have been in full compliance with the empowerment control act to date um but fundamentally um this question has been litigated multiple times before this committee um and uh look forward to continuing to work with you on it

so i'd really that wasn't an an answer to the to the question the administration has shut down programs that are authorized and funded if there's another proposal to shut down a program that's authorized and funded will you raise not that i'm not asking about whether you'll publicly oppose it you're gonna be working Will you strive to make sure that there's a yellow flag put up and said, you know, this may be violating the separation of powers?

Um, appreciate the question. Um, Senator, I would commit to abiding by the Constitution and the laws on the books.

OK, let me turn to. Well, I'm over my time. So you're you're spared any additional questions. Thank you.

Uh, Senator Grist.

Uh, I thank whoever gave me their slot, thank you very much. um i uh think that president trump is doing a real good job of bringing the regulatory state uh reining it in at the start of his term president trump set a benchmark of slashing ten existing regulations for every new regulation issued i i understand the administration far exceeded that with maybe a racial wonder twenty nine one hundred and twenty nine how accurate is that number and what has this meant in terms of time and dollars saved by the private sector and can that be measured uh relative with some certainty

uh senator absolutely and um appreciate the question so the number uh that you referenced the hundred and twenty nine to one obviously are extremely proud of. It does include things like guidance documents that have the effect of regulations in there, but we are far exceeding um the ten to one ratio. Um we have we have exceeded over a trillion dollars worth of savings um to the economy via the deregulatory agenda. Um the repeal of the endangerment finding alone uh saved uh uh the economy an estimated one point three trillion dollars. Um we're excited to put out our next unified agenda. um related to uh our regulatory agenda for this coming year um and with that we'll have additional information that we'll be able to share related to the fiscal impacts um of our uh deregulatory policies.

yeah uh on my next question just keep in the back of your mind the reason i am asking about wind energies i authored that legislation in nineteen ninety two one of the stated objectives of the administration deregulatory agenda is to eliminate obstacles to energy production as a supporter of all the above energy strategies i am concerned that this commitment isn't being applied consistently to all forms of energy in iowa several wind energy projects are currently halted this is due to some revaluation of wind energy mitigation agreement process performed by the department of defense my staff has been in contact with dod and i understand that there is an effort to identify projects of low national security concerns for approval uh what is the omb's role in this process and will you commit to working with me to mitigate bureaucratic red tape standing in the way of iowa wind projects by the way we get sixty percent of our electricity in iowa from when

oh senator i appreciate the question i'm not directly familiar with the matter at hand um i'm happy to take that back to our team but certainly committed to working with you on it

well if you'll do that i'll appreciate it uh so i hope my staff heard that and they'll get in touch with you pretty darn soon uh as far as the family uh working families tax cut act congress extended modified the clean fuels tax credit with an idea with an eye towards making it work better for farmers seeing this law implemented properly and on a timely fashion is a top priority of mine in april uh omb um uh uh usda submitted to your agency a biofuels feedstock rule uh related to accurately calculating this credit this rule is necessary to ensure farmers can fully participate in the program uh when can farmers expect omb to complete this review process and uh before you answer that i just think over the weekend this process may have been smoothed out a little bit by finally the department of energy uh uh reaching some agreements that were necessary before you would get the rule

Uh, Senator, I appreciate the question. Um, we're closely tracking the forty-five Z rule, which as you mentioned is currently in the twelve eight six six process at OIRA. Um, understand the priority, um, to your constituents about getting this rule out. Um, I believe we're making progress and hopefully we'll have an update for you, um, on that soon.

K, thank you. Thank you, Senator Johnson. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairme- Chairman. Mr. Duncan, you're up for a very important job running the nerve center of the federal government. it is really really critical that uh you can be depended upon to follow the law and to speak up when you believe others are not can you can we count on you to do that

senator i appreciate the question i will commit to following the law and upholding the constitution

so to that end and following up a bit on what senator merkley was asking you can you assure all of us that omb will not attempt to do another end run around congress with an illegal pocket rescission this september

Senator, I appreciate the question. Um, as it relates to the pocket recisions, uh, pocket recisions have been executed by previous administrations, notably the Ford administration following the passage of the Empowerment Control Act. Um, I can't commit to any of the fiscal tools the, uh, administration may or may not use in the future. Um, but certainly look forward to working with you.

Well, I'm glad you wanna work with me, but pocket recision is a critical issue and I'm am concerned about the answer that - that you just gave. Well, but let me move on. Um, OMB recently proposed a rule to overhaul the federal grant making system, um, that allows you to terminate grants but be- based on some big, quote, administration values or priorities. That really sounds to me like uh you all are trying to turn the entire federal government to this one big slush fund to reward those aligned with the administration and punish everyone else. One of the provisions in that actually prohibits funding any activities that promote, quote, anti-American values. Now, under this administration, that could mean practically anything. And I just wanna make sure we're on the same page here. So, let me ask you, if this proposed rule went into effect, what limits would be placed on the administration's ability to award grants to its political allies or or defen- deny funding to anyone else?

Well, Senator, I appreciate the question. Um, obviously the rule is currently in the proposed phase. Um, it'll close for comment, I believe, on July The rule is fundamentally about accountability, um, in ensuring that we are able to, uh, have, uh, a, a good oversight over the grant process and that it is in alignment with, um, um, the administration's agenda. Um, but it, as it relates to the rule, we will certainly follow the statutes that govern underlying programs, um, and, uh, we're, are committed to ensuring that federal taxpayer dollars are awarded in the way, um, that is responsible.

Well, I, I was looking for a concrete answer. Is there any language in it that that i didn't say any but i'll ask you places limits on cronyism

senator uh we would move forward with the rule and move forward with the agencies in a manner that is consistent with applicable law

well the way i read it the reality is that a a political appointee like you could terminate a cancer research grant or a hospital grant solely because of the president's whim or personal vendetta and to me that is really unacceptable We all know how this administration would abuse this. I really hope all of our colleagues will join us to stop this, and they should remember what goes around comes around, but I think that is a very concerning proposed rule and uh and allows some uh uh allows OMB to make political decisions that they should not be making. So I think we should all be worried about that. Just wanted to bring it to everybody's attention. Um, let me ask about another issue. Last week we learned that the trust fund will run out of money in just six years, three months sooner than previously estimated. When he was pressed on this, Speaker Johnson insisted that entitlements should be " adjusted". Well, I've been around long enough to know that adjustment means cuts. You have worked for Republicans like Chip Roy who support benefit reductions. Elon Musk, who had free reign over the federal government, has called social security a " Ponzi scheme". So it's Kind of no surprise that Trump's latest budget request did not include any solvency proposal for social security why doesn't OM OMB view social security solvency as an important enough issue to include in a budget request

Senator I appreciate the question and as the director testified is on a similar question when he was up here that President Trump has been uh immensely clear on his support for protecting social security and Medicare and that will continue to be uh the north star for this administration moving forward.

But nothing in the budget request and for all of our knowledge for decades presidents have presented a full budget including projections and proposals for mandatory programs like social security so this administration simply is failing to do its most important work i got a guess because they don't care you know democrats have introduced a number of proposals to address the solvency crisis without cutting benefits we haven't seen anything from this administration doing nothing means that seniors are gonna see a twenty two percent cut in their social security benefits in twenty thirty two. That's about ten thousand dollars a year per couple. So, we expect this administration to do in the budget what what previous presidents have done and present us a proposal. Thank you, Mister Chair.

Sir Johnson.

Hey, Mister Chairman. Uh, Mister Duncan, congratulations on your nomination. Uh, you know, there's an awful lot of bipartisan whistling by the graveyard here and I think we're hearing it from the other side right now. Let's just get a couple of facts before I get some questions. Two thousand nineteen before the pandemic, we spent four point four trillion dollars. This year we will spend well over seven trillion. That's almost a seventy percent increase over what we spent in two thousand nineteen, correct?

Senator, that's correct.

I have seen the low estimate in terms of fraud out of that seven trillion dollars, about two hundred fifty billion dollars a year, we had in front of a a subcommittee of CEO of LexisNexis, I didn't realize they did research on this, about a trillion dollars a year. I know Secretary Besson claims it's somewhere around five hundred billion. So there's a range, two hundred fifty billion to a trillion dollars a year in fraud. And you know, we're concerned about the executive actually managing the budget and trying to to stop that fraud. I I was interested in Doctor Oz uh pointing out the fact that a third of hospice centers hospice centers are in Los Angeles. And so when you stop funding four hundred of them, Not one complained. Not one. Four hundred fraudulent hospice centers. How how how many billions of dollars is going out to fraud? So, you're fully aware and I appreciate the the work you did help me get a little bit more funding for OMB. Uh, it's interesting to Senator Merkley point out that your budget is about a hundred and seventy five billion dollars a year. Divided by seven point five trillion, that that's that's about point zero zero two five percent. i would say most major corporations spend a whole lot more on their controller department to try and manage the the financial situation of the business. I think we should be doing a whole lot more managing of the federal budget. So that's why, you know, and I appreciate you working with me to get a hundred million dollars. Sounds like a lot, but it's a drop in the bucket to try and focus on the management side. So I I just wanna give you an opportunity, what you've been working on on the management side, the the line-by-line evaluation of the budget, program by program. It again, it's it's not easy to do. You know, the AI we're trying to to uh s- establish so we can l- find the information where you got four hundred fraudulent hospital centers in LA, but I'll give you the floor.

Absolutely. And uh appreciate the question, Senator, and appreciate you working with us uh so hard on this. It's been a great relationship that we've had. And really quick on the fraud point, I think that's why the fraud task force uh is so important, is there are estimates of fraud, but we really don't know. we really don't have a solid number and there's so many limitations that we keep uncovering as the task force is going out and investigating this. So, uh

See, well, let me just quick interject too. Trying to prosecute and recover is almost impossible. I I think the latest Department of Justice figures they're prosecuting something four point seven billion dollars. Versus almost a maybe a thousand billion dollars. So you have to prevent it on the front side, like Doctor Oz did. Correct? Well, you know, again, the the present Chief Executive faithfully execute the laws, and part of that is to make sure we don't have the ways for unabused.

Absolutely, Senator. It's so important that we put these controls on the front-end, which is why I think some of the uh actions that we're taking in two CFR is really important. Um, under the two CFR uni- uniform guidance regulations for grant making, uh, every agency will be required to be using the do not pay um uh lists before they send out funding. Uh, if IGs catch fraud, they would be required to send the instance of that fraud to the US Attorney for the District of Columbia within ten days. Um, so we think a lot of these controls, uh, in addition to the accountability of having, um, a one of the, uh, president's political personnel serving as kind of the last check on a grant before it goes out, will certainly help, uh, us manage the the federal budget and ensure that we're stopping fraud on the front-end, because it's so hard to combat on the back-end.

So, and w- wouldn't it be nice if our colleagues on the other side of the aisle would be concerned about two hundred fifty billion to a trillion dollars of fraud and actually work with the administration uh to to encourage for example their governors to provide the information to the federal government so we can stop it before it's ever spent can can you talk a little bit about the frustration this ministry administration is having in terms of getting the data they need to analyze to prevent fraud from going out the door in the first place

yeah senator i think that's a great question i think in the snap program we've seen many states being unwilling to provide information to usda uh certain states have been willingly providing information uh to ensure that uh there are proper controls in the snap program as that funding is going out but we see many states um refuse to do it now obviously we think this is a bipartisan issue we think that we can bring everyone to the table on this and we would hope that people would do so moving forward to have permanent enduring reforms cause i don't believe that anyone here wants to see fraud in federal government

and of course that that's my goal of using that hundred million dollars to establish a permanent ai program and a structure and programs within omb to properly manage this and again prevent the money from going out you know where you can never recover it but thank you mister duncan and congratulations

mister chair mister duncan i applaud you for your judgment just like me you grew up in another state married a virginian so we we have that connection was the twenty twenty four presidential election rigged

senator president trump won the twenty twenty four presidential election

yeah folks how about that so he was asked twice was the twenty twenty presidential election rigged and he said president biden was certified to be the winner he wouldn't answer the question saying president biden was certified as the winner of that election is like saying today is tuesday june sixteen i mean it's obviously it's a fact but he wouldn't acknowledge that president biden won that race now there's only one of two reasons mister duncan you you have either fallen victim to the conspiracy mindset that says that that election was rigged and if you're a conspiracy theorist you shouldn't be let anywhere near the position you've been nominated for or you know president biden won the election but you're afraid of making an insecure president mad by acknowledging that fact you answered so easily when i asked you the question about twenty twenty four you didn't fight you didn't evade, you didn't obscure, you didn't try to end run. You said President Trump won the election, which he did. He won the popular vote, he won the electoral college. The answer was just as simple about twenty twenty. The fact that you were unable to give the simple answer about twenty twenty raises real serious questions about you. Let me ask you this. In your current position, I believe you're a legislative affairs director for USAID, which its programs to the extent they're being delivered at all are sort of being delivered through state and others but omb is sort of managing the wind-down of the operation we are currently in the midst of a severe global health crisis we've got an ebol uh outbreak in africa that's accelerating rapidly and that some experts have warned could be extremely dangerous we're seeing screw worm return to the united states after decades of work to eradicate it we've got measles outbreaks in communities that haven't had major measles issues since the vaccine became available. We've had a hundred and eleven cases in Virginia so far this year, and we only had twenty-five last year. Meanwhile, what's the administration been doing to prepare for these types of global health issues? We withdrew from the World Health Organization, undermining our ability to coordinate with other nation on responses. After withdrawing, it was interesting, Secretary Rubio said, "WHO didn't do a good job of picking up Ebola." Thanks, Sherlock. The US backs out of the WHO, we quit funding it, we quit participating, the organization isn't as effective in picking up a disease that could harm Americans. We've canceled hundreds of millions in HHS mRNA vaccine funding, and we're trying to cancel billions more in CDC grants related to pandemic. We've illegally shuttered USAID, one of the agencies that's responsible for the progress we had made in combating screwworm not to mention one of the agency's key to addressing Ebola outbreaks. The Trump administration has pushed out experts across the government, not just at USAID. Employees at the Department of Agriculture's, Animal and Plant Health Inspection Service are down a quarter, CDC is down a quarter, many specific offices at HHS have lost tons of employees. They haven't told us how many yet. And today, today, the OMB is still withholding two billion dollars in congressionally passed global health funding from last year, fy twenty five, the administration only started to release some of these monies way late after the ebola outbreak got bad. Now, to my colleagues, last week in an appropriations hearing, secretary rubio testified that he is ready to utilize this two billion dollars from fy twenty five to deal with, uh, global health issues, but he's waiting for the OMB to release the money. Release the money from FY twenty-five, when we're dealing with Ebola, screwworm, measles, hantavirus. Is the OMB gonna release this money or are you gonna wait for more health crises to emerge?

Well, Senator, I certainly appreciate the question. Um, I, I believe you referenced to this, but we have already notified via state who is managing these programs and who is funds off of the congressional notification that you're um referring to. Uh, we've already notified up to Congress that a hundred million dollars of the global health security funding um involved in that CN uh is going to uh combat Ebola. Um, we have also apportioned an additional five hundred million dollars on top of that from that CN to go towards Ebola as well.

Apportioned,

Um.

is that the same as released or is that internally we think we might one day make these monies available?

If if so in from the OMB perspective, that would be releasing. Um, State Department

And when wi- when will that money be released?

We wou- I would have to defer to the State Department. They would submit a congressional notification on these funds.

OK,

Um.

but, but I just, again, to remind my colleagues, Secretary Rubio said he wants to use this two billion dollars from FY twenty-five to combat these global crises, and he's waiting on OMB to release it. So, my time is up, but I'm just gonna say should you be confirmed, but even before there's any vote on confirmation, in the midst of these crises, OMB should release the money that Congress allocated over a year ago, to deal with precisely these kinds of health emergencies. I yield back, Mister Chair.

OK.

Mister Duncan, um, every now and then I see an article that says something like uh, government federal government's spends twenty five million dollars to study whether a man can breastfeed. Or the federal government spends fifty million dollars to try to teach a neighborhood squirrel to code. And I think How did that stuff get in there? I said on the Appropriations Committee, we're supposed to put together a budget. Sometimes we do. This year we probably won't. Because my friend and and colleague, Senator Schumer, wants to shut down government, to create chaos, to try to get the Graham Platner wing of his party to love him. But I digress. That stuff's not in the budget. When we vote on a budget. Where's it come from?