Lilly Nomination Hearing for Asst. Secretary for Fish and Wildlife

Good morning everybody, uh and it's it's a pleasure to be here. Uh this morning we will hear from President Trump's nominee to be the Assistant Secretary for Fish and Wildlife at the US Department of Interior, Mister Kevin Lilley. Welcome Mister Lilley to the Environment and Public Works Committee. Mister Lilley, I know you spent a considerable amount of time with the Energy and Resources Committee yesterday, given the nature of this position and our split jurisdictions, and so we're very appreciative that you're here with us today. Mister Lilley brings decades of leadership experience gained from his time in the private sector, state government, the military, and most recently at the Department of Interior in the role role as Assistant Secretary. He's been nominated to be the Assistant Secretary for Fish and Wildlife, where he would provide senior leadership, uh policy leadership, for both US Fish and Wildlife and the National Park Service. This role includes oversight of the implementation of the Endangered Species Act, ESA, conservation, and funding partnerships with states and landowners and stewardships of our national parks. The Fish and Wildlife Service also participates in the federal permitting process through the ESA consultation process. This process has been uh long, inefficient, and costly for projects and communities across the country. Any Assistant Secretary confirmed to this position must believe that federal agencies can protect threatened and endangered species, while also providing timely consultation, habitat, and incidental take decisions to ensure that important infrastructure pro- projects can responsibly and efficiently move forward. These projects should not be held hostage because federal agencies or establish clear schedules or make necessary determinations. Striking an appropriate balance between conservation and beneficial economic development is essential for all states and that's no different than the state of West Virginia, my home. Oversight of the National Park Service is equally important in West Virginia. We have the New River Gorge National Park and Preserve. It's one of West Virginia's great natural resources and an important economic driver through tourism and recreation. I highly recommend it. The park has defied the fa- the the park has defied the failing attendant trends facing other national parks. The New River Gorge posted a nine point five percent increase in attendance in twenty twenty five with visitor spending contributing over a hundred million dollars into the local economy, in twenty twenty four. However, the park has only had only has now an acting superintendent instead of a permanent one. The New River Gorge National Park needs a permanent superintendent to focus on improving the visitor experience and park operations as well as working with surrounding communities to leverage the opportunities presented by the park's increasing attendance. I expect the Assistant Secretary to make filling this position a priority for the National Park Service. West Virginians are proud conservationists with the tradition of hunting, fishing and outdoor recreation throughout our beautiful state. The North American model of wildsi- wildlife conservation has been a great success in this country in ensuring we responsibly manage public resources for the future. Unique in this model is, uh, the role our hunters, anglers, and outdoor recreationists play, not only in local conservation work but also in funding and helping to deliver conservation programs. This model supports recreation and tourism opportunities in local communities all across the country. Having leaders in Washington that appreciate these important partnerships

Thank you very much, uh, Chairman. We just had, uh, Brian Nesvik before the committee to discuss the Fish and Wildlife Service budget. We're now here to discuss the nomination of Mister Nesvik's boss. There are a few things from our last hearing

Mm.

that I believe are worth raising with mister lilly first the way that the department of the interior and its bureaus in your jurisdiction have treated career staffers is unacceptable you all have let the doggy boys chase out nearly eighteen hundred employees purging at least five hundred and thirty biologists i don't know what the biologists did deserve that treatment and over one hundred regional senior staff the park service is suffering with parks and wildlife refuges, understaffed and overburdened. I remind you that you'll be overseeing two bureaus, the National Park Service and the Fish and Wildlife Service, which have jurisdiction over some of God's greatest creations. Last week, I displayed this chart of the biomass of mammals on Earth. It's almost all humans pets and livestock. Five percent, five percent of mammal biomass is all that remains on this planet, that is still wild. We're living through a biodiversity crash, often called a sixth mass extinction. This time, not brought on by an asteroid, but by human pollution. climate change, deforestation, habitat destruction, overexploitation, and a word, greed. The Department of Interior seems not to care. In March, the secretary, your boss, sought fit to exempt all Gulf of Mexico oil and gas activities from our foremost wildlife protection law the Endangered Species Act. Careless that the Gulf is home to the rice is whale, a species so that there are only around fifty left. This administration will happily sacrifice an entire species on its altar of oil and gas interests. Meanwhile, you all pretend to care about the North Atlantic right whale. Rice's whale, right whale, what's the difference? Well, rice's whale inhabits offshore oil and gas territory. and so can dye. The right whale inhabits offshore wind territory and is a useful tool to attack clean energy. You all use fake concern about one whale to suppress oil and gas's clean energy rival while sacrificing the other whale to fossil fuel. It is yet another example of corruption to help trump's fossil fuel donors. Right now, after losing every case on your offshore wind shenanigans, you all are using billions of taxpayer money to buy out fossil fuels' lower-cost competition. Anything to prop up trump's oil and gas donors. That should not be the primary mission of the Department of interior. I very much doubt you're equipped to be successful in the position for which you've been nominated, based on your background and experience. You say you have a tremendous appreciation of the land, waters and wildlife managed by the National Park Service and the Fish and Wildlife Service. Appreciating things as you sacrifice them does not pass the test. Your predecessors, including from the first Trump administration, had decades of specialized experience. You cannot replace decades of experience, of expertise, with one year as acting, particularly when you've run out five hundred and thirty of your biologists, and particularly not after a year like we've had. To eliminate an entire species, to sell wildlife refuges to private interests, to decrease enforcement of out-of-season hunting on federally owned lands, poaching for Pete's sake. This past year, each of these things has happened with the stroke of Mister Lilley, if you're confirmed, the decisions you make in this role will affect our country's remaining wildlife for years to come. You should manage our wildlife refuges and parks for the good of all Americans and the species who call them home, not for deep-pocketed and politically connected polluters. I give you about a two percent shot. I hope I'm wrong. Thank you, Chairman.

Thank you. Um, Senator Cruz was, is on his way to introduce the witness. So if we could wait just a minute or two, and if he doesn't go, we'll move forward.

Uh, the Senate. In which senators are on their way.

On their way from the, what was that, Senator Kennedy? He was on his way, but he was at the Boston airport? I'm on my way from the airport. Yeah.

Wrong airport.

thank you Mm. Welcome, Senator Cruz, to the EPW committee. How do you like our new hearing room? We just, this is our first year back in it.

It is lovely.

Trying to be as good as commerce, yeah. So I'm gonna turn over to Senator Cruz to introduce our witness, Kevin Lilley. Thank you.

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for the leniency I had to gavel in. commerce before running down here, so thank you for the flexibility. Uh, good morning, Madam Chair, Ranking Member Whitehouse, distinguished members of this committee. It is my privilege to introduce my friend, Kevin Lilley, President Trump's nominee to serve as the next Assistant Secretary for Fish and Wildlife at the Department of the Interior. Kevin is a Texas native who attended the University of Texas at Austin for his undergraduate studies and later earned his MBA from southern methodist university. During his time at the university of texas, kevin participated in rotsi, where he received a commission as a tank commander in the united states army, and later rose to the rank of captain. His service to texas and our nation continued in the texas state guard, where he led the eighth regiment as a colonel during hurricane harvey. The eighth red regiment i'd like to note is known as quote terry's texas rangers. and was first led by Sam Houston. So this regiment in particular uh is very meaningful to the Lone Star State. Kevin later served as the chairman of the Texas Alcoholic Beverage Commission, where he oversaw agents responsible for public safety and law enforcement at licensed establishments across Texas. In that role, he oversaw efforts to monitor and investigate human trafficking, money laundering, and narcotics trafficking activities. He also founded Avalon Advisors, LLC, the largest privately owned wealth management firm in Texas. And I would note that Kevin spent many, many years as business partners with one of my closest friends on planet Earth. Today, Kevin serves as the Acting Assistant Secretary for Fish and Wildlife. His experience serving both the State of Texas and our nation has made him a steady and reliable leader who understands the importance of cooperation among local, state, and federal governments. Kevin and his family share a deep love of the outdoors, including fishing and hunting, which has which has fostered a strong appreciation for our public lands. Kevin is a proud Texan, I'm not sure there's any other kind, a proud American, a well-respected leader and a lifelong conservative republican who has dedicated himself to serving the people of texas his love for god family and country is evident through his continued public public service and i have no doubt that he will continue to lead with conviction and integrity as the assistant secretary for fish and wildlife of the department of the interior kevin is a good man and he will do an excellent job I strongly encourage my colleagues to support his nomination. Thank you.

Thank you, Senator Cruz. Appreciate you coming. I know you have a Commerce Committee meeting, cuz I'm on your committee as well. Um, so as the Senator leaves, I will and now ask the nominee, Mister Lilly, to come forward to the witness table. If you wanna just remain standing, Mister Lilly, yeah. Before we move to an opening statement, I will now administer the oath for you to receive your sworn testimony. If you would raise your right hand. Do you swear the testimony you're about to give to this committee is the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God.

I do.

Thank you. Let the record show that the witness is answered in the affirmative, and we will now um hear from the nominee. Mister Wil- Mister Lilley, when you are ready, you are recognized for five minutes and thank you for being here.

Good morning, Chairman Capito, Ranking Member Whitehouse, and members of the committee. I am both honored and humbled that President Trump has nominated me for Secretary, and for Secretary Burgum's trust in me to serve as Assistant Secretary for Fish and Wildlife and Parks at the Department of the Interior. I'm joined here today by my wife, Leslie. Um, my, both of my sons, John and James, although James seems to be dealing with DC parking and is trying to find a place so, we'll we'll expect him shortly. Uh, as well as several friends.

Apparently he is here.

Oh, is he?

Yes.

Oh, OK. Sorry. Um, I am grateful for the unwavering support of my wife, Leslie. Throughout our many years together, her faith and resilience have always been my North Star. I'm also proud to be the father of two Eagle Scouts, who now are both here. a remarkable daughter who has made us doting grandparents and a son-in-law who is proudly serving in the US military at the present time. Their commitment to service, leadership and family has inspired me as much as I've tried to inspire them. Much of my life has been devoted to encouraging young people to grow in character and confidence, whether through my work as an assistant scout master or as a youth baseball and softball coach. These experiences reinforced my belief in mentorship, responsibility, and community. Our family's love of hunting and fishing, camping has carried me across some of the most beautiful and diverse landscapes in our nation. Experiencing these places firsthand has deepened my appreciation for the public lands entrusted to us and strengthened my desire to expand access to them so that more Americans can share in the same sense of wonder. peace, and connection to the land. My faith has always guided my respect for creation, grounding my belief that natural resources are gifts to be cared for with humility and gratitude. The values that guide me today were shaped early in my life. Growing up in federal housing, through the military, as the youngest of five, taught me resilience, gratitude, and importance of hard work. My maternal grandparents immigrated from South in search of opportunity. My grandfather was poor and uneducated, and he found work only as a street cleaner in New York City. My father, whose Irish ancestors came and immigrated to Boston, served in World War Two, Korea, and Vietnam, and as a police officer. My older brother served honorably in Vietnam before losing his life to the long-term effects of Agent Orange exposure. These experiences gave me a deep understanding of hardship, strengthening my empathy for others and instilling in me a profound respect for the strength of families and communities. These foundations have shaped my approach to service throughout my life, as Senator Cruz mentioned, first as a commissioned US Army Cavalry Officer and Tank Commander, then as a Texas State Police Commissioner, and now in my work at the Department of the Interior. Over the past year, serving as a steward of America's natural resources has been more than a professional opportunity, it's been a calling. My faith rooted in care, responsibility and respect for creation aligns naturally with work that protects public lands and wildlife. I carry into this mission a sense of purpose rooted in humility and gratitude. I am also grateful for the dedicated career, men and women, that serve faithfully in the Fish and Wildlife Service and the National Park Service. I am inspired each day by their public service. I'm grateful for the opportunity to work with our tribal, state, local and external partners, as well as our gateway communities and the hundreds of friends groups. This is a collaborative effort. As Assistant Secretary, my focus will be straightforward, keeping our national parks open, safe and properly staffed for the families who visit them. Supporting the men and women of the Fish and Wildlife Service in their work to recover species and sustain healthy habitat, and confronting the deferred maintenance backlog that affects both visitor safety and the conditions of these treasured places. I will work hand in hand with our state, tribal, and local partners, and with the gateway communities whose livelihood depend on these lands to advance both conservation and access. In closing, I want to share a moment that defines this After this year's Artemis two mission, the first time Americans flew around the moon in more than fifty years, the mission commander, who by his own account was not a religious man, described being so overwhelmed by the vision from space of our earth illuminated by the sun that back aboard the recovery ship he broke down in tears at the simple sight of a chaplain's cross. Recently, while at Yosemite National Park, I awoke to see the sun cresting above Half Dome. And I was also overwhelmed with that same sense of awe and grace. It is that moment that I hope each American can share in some way, an experience, that our nation's children can find comfort not in the virtual world, but in the Creator's world. Our national parks, our wildlife refuges, are the salvation of the American soul. I commit to you and the committee I will remain an unwavering steward of the precious resources under my watch, while ensuring Americans can enjoy public lands safely, responsibly, and fully, today and for generations to come. Thank you again for this opportunity to appear before you, and I am prepared to answer your questions.

Thank you. Uh, thank you and welcome to your family and uh, Thank you for being here, thank you for your service to our country in more ways than one. Um, to begin this, we have three standing yes or no questions that uh, we ask all of all nominees who appear before us. So I'm gonna ask you these pretty straight forward questions. Do you agree, if confirmed, to appear before this committee or designated members of this committee, and other appropriate committees of this Congress to provide information subject to appropriate and necessary security protections with respect to your responsibilities?

Yes, ma'am.

Do you agree to insure the testimony, briefings, documents, and electronic and other forms of communication of information are provided to this committee and its staff and other appropriate committee in a timely, timely is the key there, timely manner?

Yes, ma'am.

Thank you. And finally, do you know of any matters which you may or may not have disclosed that may place you in a conflict of interest if you are confirmed?

No, ma'am.

All right. With that, I am going to start with the, my round of questioning. I am gonna mention uh this morning I had an interesting experience with the National Park Service myself, and that I was given a sort of a preview of the undercroft of the Lincoln Memorial, which will be opening tomorrow to the public. It is an extremely interesting and extremely well done presentation of how the monument was built uh and uh it's it's uh it'll be a welcome respite for some visitors, because it's air-conditioned in there and has great bathrooms, which all visitors are looking for, but it's a real

I'm glad you enjoyed it.

It was great. It was great. So, recently the US District Court of the District of Columbia vacated the biological opinion that governed to consultations under the Endangered Species Act for coal mining activities in states that have primacy under SMACRA. You and I have already talked about this. This leaves states like my state of West Virginia in tremendous limbo with respect to how the ESA reviews will be carried out. We did have Director Nesbitt in front of the committee as uh Senator Whitehouse mentioned, and I asked him to make the same commitment that I'm asking of you right now. Do I have your commitment to work with the Office of Surface Mining, State Regulators, including the West Virginia Department of Environmental Protection and the mining industry on a path forward, that allows ESA consultations to take place in an efficient manner and avoid unnecessary delays in the permitting process in the wake of this court decision.

Yes, ma'am.

Thank you very much. So, let's talk about permitting reform. As you know, we are in dire need of permitting reform. This is something we've said for years and uh Senator Whitehouse and I are working with our staffs very diligently with uh the Energy and Natural Resources Committee. We need the ability to build critical infrastructure in a timely manner, but we need to do it the right way. And one of the biggest hurdles projects can face is under the ESA consultation. In this position, how will you work with Director Nesvik to ensure that the implementation of the ESA protects endangered species without a stonewalling effect?

Thank you, Senator. Thank you, Chair, Madam Chairman. That's a great question. And yes, I have spent a great deal of time with Director Nesvik as well as the Fish and Wildlife staff, and other staff members within the department of the interior i think that the the the fundamental reality is that many things while well intended become subject to the unintended consequences of their own action i think that is reflective in the endangered species act i think when it was established in nineteen seventy three and passed i believe at that time by unanimous vote It was, as some people called it, a wildlife management process in which the objective was to recover and delist species. Consequently, the delisting of species should be received with great fanfare and celebration. It should be something that we continue to work toward, rather than something to battle against. And it seems that, in some sort of a perverse sense, that while we receive, when we have successes, we are immediately sued. That there are those that while we go through reasonable science, tremendous hours of biologists, of scientists, population managers, attorneys, the public input, when all the science is culminated to come up with an answer, and yet it can be whisked away through judicial review. That does not work toward the benefit, I think, of either the species. or the American people. The only thing that it benefits are legal fees and the perpetual litigious nature that the ESA has become. So, to answer your question directly, ma'am, working toward ESA reform is a benefit to all, and I believe it is a bipartisan reality. To deregulate, to protect our environment, to protect our species, no question, but also to be reasonable and not use it as a burden upon American industry, upon private landowners, upon tribal communities, and upon stakeholders.

Thank you. Uh, I wanna turn briefly, I just have a minute left here and this is not a brief topic, but it's the national parks. Uh, obviously they are stellar, West Virginia's national park was signed into law by President Trump in twenty twenty as the latest park, the sixty-third park, and I I've mentioned its successes. It's a for all of us in our state uh how will you how will will you using your professional background use that to strengthen local economies and grow tourism in our national parks and that's a big question for a twenty second answer

sure well i think it's a great question and i think it it leads to other concerns um my background uh and if i have to stop i guess i could answer it later but Um, the National Park Service is one of the most complex ecosystems and organizations in the United States and in the United States government. The multiple sources of revenue, capital leases, deferred maintenance, law enforcement, housing, concession contracts, trademarks, IP, bridges, tunnels, golf courses, dealing with gateway communities, And realizing that the balance that must exist in the collaboration with all of these varying components, which I have spent a career as a fiduciary dealing with and having some degree of experience in, and also working with these businesses that are so reliant upon the success of the parks is extremely important. One of the things I do every time I go to a park, I make sure that I spend a tremendous amount of time in round tables with local business, community and tribal leaders. I wanna hear directly from them how we can better serve one another, to serve the American people, to make this not a mutually exclusive relationship, but an inclusive one.

Thank you. Thank you. Senator Whitehouse.

Thanks very much, uh, Mr. Lilley. Thank you for joining me yesterday to uh, discuss the issues that the uh, interior department is facing. Um, thank you for your service in our military. Um, I would like to talk with you about the reflecting pool, as we discussed uh, yesterday. Um, at the moment, uh, the park police are making arrests around the reflecting pool. The president has claimed that Vandals, quoting him here, took some form of knife or blade, and put a two hundred fifty foot long gash into the beautiful facade of what took so much work, competence, and money to build and complete. He increased the estimate to three hundred feet later, then to three hundred and fifty feet, um, insisting that it was, uh, quoting him again, cut and powerfully lifted off the surface, leaving very jagged, uneven edges. He was asked what proof there was of any of that, since it doesn't seem to be visible to any other person. And he said, " Well, you'll have to go see the Parks Department." "They'll show it to you." "Or see the secretary, but I saw it. We have pictures." Uh, he also said, " You'll see it in court." Um, so You were a police commissioner in Texas. I understand it?

Yes, sir.

Um. when people visiting the reflecting pool are being arrested, handcuffed, and dragged away by your police officers, you'd like to think that they have proper probable cause to arrest someone. I grew up in the foreign service, and there were plenty of countries in which arrests made to satisfy a political leader's narrative that had no basis in fact was something that they did. The American system of justice has not operated that way. What can you tell me here today about what damage was done to the reflecting pool, where this three hundred fifty foot gash came from, and why tourists are being arrested, what is the factual predicate for these arrests?

Yes, sir. Thank you. And indeed, I have spent, as a son of a police officer, as well as a police commissioner, I've spent virtually my, virtually my entire life in and around the law enforcement industry or business, community rather.

So you'd agree with me that arresting tourists to vindicate a political narrative, not because of any evidence of a crime, would be a wrong thing to do if that were what happened, correct?

Senator, the US Park Police is one of the most extraordinary and historic police departments in the United States. Founded in seventeen eighty nine. And in the year that I've had the opportunity and pleasure and privilege and honor to work with them, I have been amazingly impressed by their professionalism, their training, their discipline, their service, and their their duty and service to this district, and the people. that live here.

Yep. Which is why these incidents seem so aggravating, and I'd like to ask you to respond to that.

And consequently, sir, I would say that, uh, and I, I think that all people would agree, that ensuring that law and order is maintained for anyone to apply, and I'm not saying that you are, that the US Park Police in any way use political motivation to carry out their duties, i think would be unjust, um, and in some ways an egregious accusation.

So what's the So what's the predicate then? Was there in fact a three hundred fifty foot gash done by a vandal to the reflecting pool?

The predicate, sir, is that I have no doubt

It's

Yeah, definitely. that the police officers involved in the apprehensions of these individuals, of which I believe there were five, were doing their duty, were enforcing the law, appropriately. And I think that all of us should recognize and believe that vandalism of any kind

Was

isn't a front to civilized society.

Yeah, but

It hurts everyone.

But, Mr. Lilley, the question is, was there vandalism? Did someone cut a three hundred fifty foot gash in the reflecting pool? And what vandalism did these individuals do? Is it really vandalism to pick a piece of floating peeled paint out of the reflection pool? People have run through the reflecting pool in the past. The president drove through the reflecting pool, apparently.

Sir, I stand by my statement that the US Park Police operated and conducted their business of defending, protecting this city in an appropriate manner. There was no malfeasance, nor was there any political motivation to it. And furthermore, sir, as you know, this is an ongoing investigation, and consequently I'm not in a position to share Was there? that information publicly. But once it is available publicly, I'm happy to meet with you. I met with you yesterday, sir, and I'll meet with you anytime.

Was there or was there not a three hundred and fifty foot gash in the reflecting pool.

Senator, I stand by my,

Get your, get your one now.

I stand by my statement, sir.

Your statement doesn't answer the question.

I stand by my statement, sir.

OK. Don't wanna answer the question. I can see why you don't wanna answer the question. You're in a terrible position, because the president has made up a three hundred fifty foot gash. And unfortunately now, police officers are being put in the position of having to make arrests that, I suspect, are gonna fare very badly in court, because there's nothing about touching the reflecting pool, or

sir curtis

thank you uh mister lilly i it occurs to me as i think about my state uh two thirds of my state is owned by the federal government i have counties that are over ninety four percent federally owned we have five national parks you might be the most important nominee uh to come before me uh for for many reasons and so i'm i'm grateful for this opportunity. Um, I I I did um catch very carefully your claim of uh two Eagle Scouts. I I also am the father of two Eagle Scouts, and I can tell you from my experience as fathers, we have no business taking credit for it, because we all know it's the mother who uh pushes them through those requirements. So to your wife, uh congratulations on your two Eagle Scouts. Uh, I appreciate the decision to end the time entry. at arches national park and are you familiar with that were you involved in that

absolutely sir

yeah for many utah families of visitor visitors that system became an unnecessary barrier to accessing public lands i myself waited in line for over an hour with the reservation um a year or two ago it's also created real challenges for our small businesses you've mentioned gateway communities a couple of times um and we know that the reservation portal doesn't really fix the problem it manages scarcity rather than actually solving the problem. As we enter the busiest months of the year, rather than limiting access, our focus should be on managing demand, investing in infrastructure, and improving the visitors' experience. Most importantly, we need to keep our parks easily accessible to the public. Your description of uh growing up of being out in the outdoors uh was similar to mine. It was my scouting experience uh that was actually part of that. And I think the more we make that accessible to people, the the healthier we actually are. Uh, can you walk us through the specific steps the Department of Interior is taking to reduce congestion improve traffic flow and expand visitor experience at Arches so that more people can enjoy that park without waiting?

Yes, sir. Um, one of the things that I have mentioned in many times is when I first arrived at the job I told the staff, I told our politicals and our careers, that we would never refer to an American citizen as a guest in a national Because they own it. Our parks are owned by the American people and consequently, it is incumbent upon us to ensure that Americans have access to their parks, which they own. And I believe in certain cases, sir, have you specifically mentioned arches, that timed entry was actually a deterrent. In fact, the numbers play out. I was at Arches earlier this year. I met with Gateway community members. I looked at the demographics. I looked at the economic analysis of the city of Moab. And I realized and was told from members of their county commission that Moab actually had a five hundred thousand person reduction in visitor attendance. That is a catastrophic effect. And it was referred to as recessionary upon the city of Moab. That when they began timed entry. Attendance. And visitation. In Moab. Decreased. Hotels. Restaurants. Concessionaires. All suffered. The way that we can combat the sort of perceived issue of congestion. Is, I think, um. we have used an extraordinary semi-pilot program in Yosemite, which has been incredibly successful. It involves technology. It involves utilization of fast lanes. It involves utilization of licensed readers. It involves, I'm not sure I can say this publicly, can I say the Chick-fil-A model? But, I guess we all know what that is. Using tablets in order to work to to decrease the congestion and allow the more rapid ingress and egress in and out of a park. And we saw that most recently at Yosemite and at Arches as well.

And and I'm just gonna jump in simply because of time. I I would uh really like to engage with you. You and I have the uh the the the uh fortunate um situation where a visit to Arches is actually part of our job. And so um may I uh just uh express a desire to engage with you to solve these problems. Arches actually has a number.

Understood.

Uh, there are, there are other, lots of choices. The community uh cares deeply about preserving and protecting it, but they also care deeply about those five hundred thousand people who didn't have the experience that we know they could have had. So thank you for that commitment. Uh, I'll carry that back to them. Um, also would like to point out um, throughout Utah we have these gateway communities and I'd like to invite you to be equally engaged in all of our five national parks. And I'll, I'll, I'll meet you there, my team will meet your team there, anything that we can do. to to rectify the situation where we're, where we're preserving, protecting, but also optimizing these these parks in our state would be very much appreciated.

There is indeed a balance, yes sir.

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you, and I'm apologize, I'm out of time.

Senator Merkley.

Ah thank you Madam Chairman, and and welcome Mister Lilley. And we were able to talk uh previously about the uh challenge of increasing pollinator plants because in organized uh agriculture it's become more efficient so there's fewer wild species if you will and i mentioned uh lamar alexander had had uh spotlighted a program uh for roadside pollinator plants and if i recall right you mentioned in texas there's a program for using roadsides as massive uh pollinator fields to help for pollinator plants in the sideway did i catch that remember

yeah

yeah

yes sir the flower program which was initiated by lady bird johnson is a a staple feature of texas along both our federal and state highways

so the um and i had uh comment on the fact that we face a huge drop and in pollinators uh natural pollinators including the the monarch in in almost on the western monarch has almost disappeared twice almost extinct uh the um And that, uh, one idea that we had worked on and passed into law and funded was for groups to adopt sections of - of the interstate highway system to plant pollinator gardens. But also, uh, that, uh, some ranchers are, uh, working to, in their f- their grazed lands, grazing lands that, uh, serve cattle. They're also, uh, scattering wildflower seeds. And, i just would like to know if you'll continue to work with us to increase the pollinator population, if you will, of these wild species, and of course with a special interest on my part of the western monarch.

Yes, sir. And, uh, I also enjoyed spending time with you last week, um, in your, in your office. Uh, and so certainly I'm, I'm intrigued by the programs that we used in the state of Texas, and to see how we can think about uh those types of measures uh as it relates to this particular situation so i'm happy to work with you sir

and another issue that i mentioned was the klamath basin that has suffered a lot of drought and has high conflicting demands for water between farming ranching in the lake with some endangered species uh and in the klamath uh river and that that requires very conscientious effort uh to provide uh support for that Klamath Basin. We've done various programs to try to uh help make sure water is available when needed for ranching and farming or to be able to seasonally retire certain water rights so ranchers don't or farmers don't got a business also to improve the uh conditions in the lake you know algae has gotten a lot of attention in the reflecting pool but algae with rising temperatures uh amounts of phosphorus in our waters uh is an issue all all across the country, very very difficult uh challenge. So I'd like to know if um you've had a chance to examine any of that collaboration that's going on in the Klamath Basin and and can be supportive of our efforts to help address those multiple needs.

Yes sir, um after our meeting we did discuss that. I met with Director Nesbitt on that specific topic. Um and as I mentioned and as you know sir, obviously water is an extraordinarily important issue at the department of the interior. specially in our department of water and science, especially as it relates to water rights, irrigation. Um. And so. Uh, absolutely. Uh, Senator, we are, I'm. Uh, look forward to working with your staff and working with my team. On this issue.

Uh, thank you. And one of the concerns I've had. Is whether the administration. executes programs that are duly authorized and funded uh by congress because i feel like this is uh uh and you know it's constitutional issue that the power of the purse rests with congress so occasionally or sometimes more than occasionally there have been programs where the administration has not distributed the the the funds and one area that i'm particularly concerned about uh is that of the international affairs programs in the fish and wildlife uh service. And these are the multinational species conservation uh funding, uh the whole goal is for the United States participate in programs that reduce uh the illegal trading of uh animal parts, uh which there is some of the syndicates that are involved in drugs and terrorism, also make money uh smuggling animal parts of rare species, and also to try to have a world for the generations to come. that still have rhinos and orangutans and tigers and and and so forth. And so, with this program, can you commit to making sure that that the funds appropriated by Congress are duly dispersed, in a timely fashion, um, to the uh various groups that are working on these issues?

Yes, Senator, I I um, I am aware of that issue and in my prior experience, working with trafficking um was one of the most critical functions that we dealt with. Human trafficking, animal trafficking, all of it is run by cartels and is an enormous business. Uh I can commit to you also that we are working to enhance and increase our law enforcement capabilities as it relates to our special agents within the fish and wildlife and I will work with your officer on this particular topic.

Thank you, and specifically I'm asking if you can make sure that the the monies have been appropriated and authorized will be in timely dispersed uh and get to these international organizations for the work they're doing.

I will work to that end, yes sir.

Thank you. Thank you.

Uh, Senator Husted.

Uh, thank you, Chairman Capito, and um uh, Mr. Lilley, great to have you here in the committee today. I had uh the opportunity last week to uh visit maumee bay state park with our with our ohio department of natural resources director mary mertz and congressman bob lata who's been very involved in issues regarding uh wildlife in ohio and natural places and uh i have been engaged in these issues pretty much my entire life and i've seen how cons concerted efforts can change things for the better. Uh, we, we had a, a chance to meet with a bunch of sportsman's groups and, and environmental groups and, and habitat groups and you, you, you name it. And, we recounted the number of fish species that are on the, on the recovery, uh, bird species, uh, predator species, uh, uh, who are, uh, habitat recovery, and, and a, a large amount of, uh, wetlands have been restored. in ohio to help serve as a buffer uh for nitrogen phosphorus runoff from agriculture to absorb more of that to help make sure that we don't have uh algae blooms in lake erie but it also creates an enormous amount of new habitat for wildlife as well um uh but we also know that uh there are also struggles with invasive species invasive plants there are there certain types of plants that overtake these, uh, these, these wetlands. Uh, and I was just, um, and so you see all this progress, uh, that has been made through these concerted effort, concerted efforts is great, it's fantastic, you know it's possible. Uh, i- in, in that context I'm just interested, you know, what's your, what's your view, uh, a- as you look at the responsibility you have, you know, I'll talk about the Great Lakes but across the country, And, and what more can we do, uh, to make sure that, uh, the people of our nation get a chance to experience more wild spaces, uh, m- more public lands that are, that are, uh, fruitful for these types of recreational purposes? Cuz it's huge economic benefit, but it's also a huge benefit to the quality of life.

Thank you, thank you for that, um, for that question. I enjoyed spending time with you last week as well. Uh, I think it's sort of a multifaceted question. one as it relates to um the wetlands that you referred to and sort of the the natural buffer that they provide um we continuously work with um uh items such as varying grant programs, naca grants, et cetera um we work with communities and states um on their wetlands on the preservation of wetlands um i personally am a um a duck hunter And so I recognize the importance of maintaining our flyways and maintaining our wetlands appropriately, such that and so that it can continue to be enjoyed, not just for hunting, but also for recreation.

I, I will tell you one of the big, big things that we have up in that part of the state in Lake Erie is birdwatchers that come during the spring to to see the enormous migration that we have uh of birds, coming from back from Canada.