Examining the Role of Charter Schools in Meeting All Students' Individual Needs

The Senate Committee on Health, Education, Labor and Pensions will please come to order. Um This committee is about the parents' perspective on finding the best educational option for a child. Period. End of story. How do you help the parent, typically the mother, find the best education option for the child? Cuz there's nothing, nothing that a parent wants more for their child than for that child to succeed and to realize their potential. And I can tell you from my own experience, but I think the experience of others, that beyond a parent and a grandparent, teachers have the greatest impact on a child's future. Education is powerful. It can inspire. It can sharpen. It can lift entire generations out of poverty. One person does well, their children, their grandchildren, it just goes. That's the power of education.

Mm.

It opens up opportunities they otherwise may never have had. We speak of the American dream, education is the pathway to the American dream. The better education system the better the education system, the better the future of our country. Charter schools are a critical part of that educational system. They can tailor curriculums and teaching methods to an individual child's need. And every child is different. You need talents, interests, styles, and skills. And unlike a traditional public school, charter schools are not restricted by bureaucratic red tape or zip codes. They can provide personalized learning, which leads to better outcomes. By the way, There are great traditional schools with fantastic teachers. I attended those schools and am blessed by them, and now uh am a doctor because of public education. Um, if a parent is pleased with their child's education, keep the child in the school where they are. But some thrive in conventional public schools, but others struggle, and I think we're gonna hear the story about maybe a child's struggle. A parent recognizing their child's need, not being met at a school, I think, should have the power to find a school for that child which better addresses their need. Try something which is a unique prescription for that child. Hope McDonald's child has dyslexia, a woman from Shreveport. At last month's round table she share, she shared that her daughter's public school refused to recognize dyslexia as a real disability. So, she sent her child to Louisiana Key Academy, a charter school specifically for children with dyslexia. Full disclosure, my wife is the CEO of the board or the whatever, of the four charter schools for children with dyslexia, Louisiana Key Academy that hopes child attends. And just like many parents hope my wife are passionate about charter schools, Because they had to fight for the best education for a child with dyslexia, their own. Ohio's Oakmont Center is another charter school specializing in meeting quote " at risk" students where they are in order to help that child achieve the student's academic achievement. Other charter schools are skills and and career focused, prote- preparing a child to enter the workforce. Alabama's Aerospace and Aviation High School provides each student a customized flight plan, as they call it. Hands-on experience through aviation apprenticeships, internships, ground school training. By the time someone graduates from this charter school, they have worked alongside airp- air- airplane mechanics, they've learned aircraft systems, and they've been prepared for credentials like commercial pilot or a drone pilot license. Now, It's easy to see why a parent would find this appealing. Since two thousand three, charter school enrollment increased three hundred and seventy percent from seven hundred thousand to well past three point three million students nationwide. But, charter schools are still under-resourced, um they often lack adequate facilities. My equitable access to school facilities act enables charter schools to access public properties to address the situation, to ensure that a student learns in a quality facility, and to acknowledge, to acknowledge that parents who pay taxes, sending their child to a public charter school, maybe could have access to some of the public properties not being used, that they paid taxes to do, but unfortunately are not, um, unfortunately are not having access to now. The Empower Charter School Educators to Lead Act, which I co-lead, expands opportunities for charter schools, making it cheaper for prospective charter schools to open. When it comes to the child's education, the parent should have the power. No one cares more than a parent that their child is well-educated. Let's give that person who cares the most about her child's education, the power to shape that educational future. With that, I see Senator Sanders is not here. are you gonna have an opening statement or should i just go to the

no i don't think they let freshman senators speak at this point so uh so why don't we just get straight into the

there's only three of us here man you can do whatever you want you know i'm saying uh they told me that you uh do karaoke so we could do that uh a rap song to um uh charter school week uh ok so let me introduce the witnesses we're joined today by miss debby vaughn she was part of the founding committee for the lakes and bridges charter school a public elementary and middle school for dyslexic students in Easley, South Carolina. She was integral to the twenty sixteen change of South Carolina law, allowing charter schools to serve students with specific disabilities. I look forward to hearing from you today, Miss Vaughn. Thank you for being with us.

It is a privilege to be here today, and I'm grateful for this opportunity to share my family's experience with charter schools. In twenty fifteen, a family friend asked if I wanted to join a team of folks to start a charter school for kids with dyslexia. My then first grader had been struggling with reading and wasn't getting the support she needed in our zoned public school. So I didn't hesitate to say yes. Our founding team of nine people spent nearly a year and a half preparing our charter application and all of us will tell you that starting a charter school was the most difficult endeavor in which any of us had ever embarked. We weren't interested in creating just any charter school. We wanted to create the best possible public charter school for kids with dyslexia, students who are frequently not served well in traditional public schools, and who all too often fall through the cracks when it comes to identification, intervention, and enrichment. We also believe deeply that access matters. There are excellent private schools for kids with dyslexia, but dyslexia doesn't just impact folks. families who can afford private school tuition. We wanted to create a public school that could provide specialized instruction regardless of income. As a part of this process, our team visited dyslexia-focused schools across the Southeast. We met with legislators, educators, traditional public school leaders, and community members to learn how we could best serve this special population. One piece of advice we received from Dr. Laura Cassidy was especially important. find a way to prioritize enrollment for students with dyslexia who absolutely need this specialized education. South Carolina charter schools designated as alternative education campuses, or AECs, can prioritize enrollment for specific populations. At the time, South Carolina charter school law allowed for AECs to serve various groups of at-risk students, but not students with specific learning needs. Our team approached our state representative and asked if he would work to amend the law, so that AECs could prioritize enrollment for students with a demonstrated need for evidence-based, specialized, multisensory education. Working alongside legislators in both the House and the Senate, that amendment became law and it happened in three months. This is a remarkable example of what can happen when policymakers work together and recognize a genuine unmet need. for their students and their families. Our charter was approved in twenty seventeen and then began our planning year. It was filled with fundraising, grant writing, property searches, hiring, and everything else required to open up a school. And two poignant things happened during that planning year. First, because our property search took longer than expected, we partnered with the school district of Pickens County and leased classroom space and office space inside a public elementary school for our first year of operation. Now typically charter schools and public schools do not play in the sand same sandbox, but we did both literally and figuratively and it worked, we made it work. That partnership allowed our school to open on time, and it also allowed us to serve students whom even the public school district acknowledged could be better served in a specialized environment. Second, and most impactful, We began to meet future Lakes and Bridges families. They were desperate for help because their dyslexic children had anxiety and crumbling self-esteem, because they had struggled for years without the right support. Intellectually, we knew a place like Lakes and Bridges was needed, but hearing their stories made the need deeply personal. Lakes and Bridges opened in twenty eighteen. We served two hundred students in grades one through eight. My role as Development Director part-time but it is much needed because as a state charter school we do not receive any share of county tax or local taxes and we cannot issue public bonds in order for to help with building projects but as a charter school we do have the autonomy to provide individualized instruction using the orton-gillingham approach we've had some great milestones this year and i just wanna talk about a few of them our middle school earned an excellent on the south carolina school report card This is an extraordinary accomplishment, given that eighty percent of our students have either an IEP or a five O four plan. And most of them entered our school at least one grade level behind academically. Our middle school students exceeded both district and state averages for growth. And this year's map assessment data showed that every grade level scored in the high growth quadrant for reading from fall to spring, with some students even doubling or tripling their For me though, these accomplishments mean most as a parent. You see, three of my four children have dyslexia and are like some bridges dragons. My eldest is actually graduating from high school on Saturday. Uh, when they finally received the intervention and enrichment that they needed, they absolutely blossomed. My husband and I could not have imagined how much the right school would change their lives, and it lifted up our whole family. My other child who does not have dyslexia attended a charter middle school called Youth Leadership Academy. He needed a smaller environment where he could rebuild confidence and develop leadership skills after the disruption of COVID, and YLA provided just that. His experience reinforced for our family that different children thrive in different educational settings. Learning is not a one size fits all endeavor, and schools should not be either. as a parent thank you yes sir

hang on

thank you

we're joined today by mrs. Miranda Jackson a proud mom to seven her youngest two daughters proud graduates of geo G E O, next generation high school in Baton Rouge. She is also a teacher assistant at G E O Prep Middle City in Baton Rouge. And yesterday, graduated with her associate's degree from Baton Rouge Community College, got on a plane and came here. So, we look forward to hearing from you today. Thank you for being so committed to speaking to congress and to the american people that you would graduate get on a plane and come here miss jackson

good morning and thank you for allowing me to be here today my name is miranda jackson and both of my daughters attended geo next generation high school in bantam region louisiana today i have two of my beautiful daughters with me quintasia and quinnice and also the founder of GEO, uh, Mister Kevin Teasley. I wanted to share my experience with Geoprep Mid-City and Geoprep um Next Generation High School, and how it impacted not only my children lives, but my life as well. When I moved to Baton Rouge, one of my biggest goals was to make sure that all of my children could attend the same school. Because we were new to the area and we needed stability. My children started off at Geoprep mid-city in twenty twenty seventeen. And at the time, I had one child in the sixth grade, one in the seventh grade, and one in the eighth grade. My children progressed through the school, and I began to see them truly excel. My daughter, Quintaja, became one of the leading scores on testing by eighth grade. She worked hard and continued to thrive. When we were told that Geo was launching its very first high school in Baton Rouge, next generation high school, starting with only the ninth grade and adding one grade level each year. I will admit, I was terrified, I was, it was scary. Everything was new and we didn't really know what to expect. However, after graduating from eighth grade, my daughter took the placement test for Baton Rouge Community College. Through the GO program and scored high enough, to begin college courses before she even stepped in the high school classroom. Over time, I watched both of my daughters grow to love not only high school, but also their college experience that they were receiving at such a young age. Was everything always easy? No. There were challenges along the way, but every challenge was met with support. The school made sure that the right people were in place to help and that the support made all the difference. Today, both of my daughters graduated as valedictorians of the high school while earning their associate's degree one graduated with eighty-three college credits, the other one, seventy-nine college credits. Both received valedictorian scholarships to Xavier University in New Orleans, Louisiana. One of my daughters graduated at the age of twenty with her bachelor's degree, and now she teaches math and science, third grade. My other daughter is nineteen and will be graduating in December of this year, with her bachelor's degree as well. Do I believe that they would have accomplished this, if I would not have brought them to jail? Honestly, no, I don't. I watched two of my sons attend college, through sports scholarships. While I am extremely proud of them, I learned sports scholarships can sometimes feel uncertain because of injuries can happen. And when they do, students can feel like their failure their um their failure their future I'm sorry is suddenly at risk. What I appreciate most about Geo was that they gave my daughters another pathway, one to build on academically, leadership, discipline, and opportunity. After watching my children accomplish so much, I decided to go back to school, myself. I had certifications, but I did not have a degree. The encouragement and the environment around me inspired me to get better and more education. I completed my degree in July of twenty twenty five, but I officially walked the stage on yesterday. This experience showed me that education does not just change one child's life, but it changed my entire family. Thank you again for allowing me this opportunity to speak and to share my story. Thank you.

Next. Oh. Senator Kim.

Senator Kim will introduce uh, if we even freshman senator is speaking out loud here uh but only in introduction of democratic organization

yes uh that's right special day that's right thank you chairman uh i want to uh i want to introduce jennifer coco miss coco is the interim executive director at the center for learner uh equity cl e where she is responsible for designing policy and systemic initiatives to improve charter school readiness and capacity to meet the needs of students with disabilities miss coco is an attorney an advocate who has spent the entirety of her career advancing access and opportunities for public school children she's also the parent of children with disabilities. Miss Coco, please.

Thank you, Senator Kim, Chairman Cassidy, and distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the privilege to testify today. My name is Jennifer Coco, I lead the Center for Learner Equity, a national non-profit dedicated to ensuring that students with disabilities have access to high quality public schools and choices. I've spent nearly twenty years as an attorney and advocate for students with disabilities, and as Senator Kim mentioned, I'm now living the work. My son receives preschool special education services from our district, and my daughter receives educational support through a five O four plan. And because they asked to watch this later, hi, Zora and Langston. Uh, and the questions before this committee are deeply personal. As my testimony will explain, we have not consistently ensured that charter schools can access the services and supports that they need to educate students with disabilities and help them succeed. So about charter schools, it's important to remember charter schools are public schools, full stop. They must comply with all federal education and disability laws, but what makes them different is that they enjoy increased autonomy and flexibility in exchange for a different level of oversight from their authorizers. And notably, about half of all charter schools in the United States are operating as their own local, educational, agency, which means as far as the IDA is concerned, they assume all responsibilities of a district to meet the needs of all students who enroll. More than eight million children in the United States are eligible for services under the IDA. Another one point six million are receiving accommodations under section five O four, which leaves us with a population of about ten million children in America, uh who are students with disabilities. Students with disabilities represent about fifteen percent of students in traditional public schools but eleven point eight percent of students in charter schools and this enrollment gap has persisted since my organization began analyzing enrollment trends eleven years ago. Charter schools tend to enroll fewer students with low incidence disabilities. Those are the students whose needs are the most complex. Uh but the conversation about charter schools and students disabilities is too often reduced to a really unproductive binary, is that that charter schools want to educate kids with disabilities or not, and we wanna reject that framing, because it's doing a disservice in missing the bigger point. It's overlooking the systemic barriers that are limiting a charter school's capacity to implement the IDEA. And we'll name three barriers. The first is scale. Too many charter schools lack the economies of scale to offer full continuum of services that students with disabilities require. Two, staffing. In many places, charter schools can struggle to compete for talent with the traditional district, particularly for special educators and related service personnel. And three, funding. Charters receive only seventy-five percent of the per-pupil funding of traditional public schools. These barriers are actually complications that arise from charter autonomy when it meets implementing the IDEA. Uh, a law whose central implementation premise assumed that there would be a certain size and scope of a traditional district with multiple schools. And I wanna be clear, these are not arguments against charter schools, which my organization works with all over the country. They're arguments for an ecosystem that we haven't yet designed, one that fully supports autonomous public schools and students with disabilities from the start not as an afterthought. The good news is there are solutions for Congress and policymakers that would strengthen charter school capacity and readiness to educate all kids. And I'll share four. One, we should direct our energy and resources toward advancing charter school quality in equal measure to charter school growth. This is about both funding the charter school program, but it's also about protecting investments in all K-twelve, TIDAL, and IDEA programs. which the vast majority of charter schools receive and need. Second, we must balance charter autonomy with intentional capacity building. We must require evidence of charter communities' proactive planning and coordination to improve their readiness to educate all students with disabilities.

Mm.

Third, we must fully fund the IDEA. Congress only contributes ten percent of what was originally promised to States, which was forty percent. This deeply impacts charter schools around the country. And fourth, we must protect the federal infrastructure that supports IDA implementation and the charter school program. States need an intact department of education that is providing technical assistance, oversight, and stability. In closing, I wish to bring us back to the students, their value, their potential, and our obligation to do everything we can to give them a bright future. The vast majority of students with disabilities can achieve a grade level and forge a path to post-secondary education, employment, and independence when we, the adults, ensure they receive individualized instruction and support. I encourage Congress to do all you can to protect federal education programs and funding which will strengthen and expand up educational opportunities and choices. Thank you. I look forward to your questions.

Uh, I will defer to Senator Doctor and Senator Marshall to begin.

Alright, thank you, Chairman, and again welcome to all of our speakers today, our witnesses. I'll start with with Miss Vaughn. Miss Vaughn, speak to um charter schools preparing students in STEM fields, if you could.

So, um, I don't know that I'm actually the best person to answer this question.

OK.

Um, my charter school experience is with an AEC campus. Um, for kids with dyslexia and it only goes through grade eight we're very focused on intervention and remediation um although our school does meet all of the state standards for stem subjects

ok miss jackson do you all do anything with stem in your schools

um we do have students that um that does do stem but i'm not the best person to ask that either Um, I'm just here for my experience, um, with my students.

OK, Miss Jackson, maybe speak to how do you, how do you measure success? What type of outcomes are you, are you measuring, any metrics or outcomes that you all are following?

Um, so, I actually work at, um, the Geo campus, and I will say this, is that what I love about, uh, the, the teachers is that we have teachers that are passionate, um, about students. And I heard, um, uh

miss coco

what's your name

coco

miss coco say about um you know having the right people in place when it comes to students that have the five O four IEP or dyslexic i will say this that i have witnessed and i have watched how our children at um at our locations have top gang school because our students are so passionate we making sure the teachers are so passionate we making sure that those students are getting what they need That's what my um thing is about geo, when it come to my students is that they didn't look past um where they came from, they met on where they were, and that's the thing is meeting children where they're at and bringing them further along.

You bet. Miss Miss Vaughn, you guys have any type of metrics that you're measuring, I mean how do you measure success?

Yeah, of course, um, you know, as a public school we are required to do state testing, so those are certain metrics. uh certainly metrics we also do map assessments in the fall winter and spring um and we do uh parent and student satisfaction surveys as well um i'd just like to say that our map assessment data nope i already talked about that never mind um but uh we're doing good all of our state testing and all of our metrics are showing that our model works

and maybe i was intrigued with your interaction a charter school and a public school. Did I understand that right? So, uh, could I, uh, explain the barriers and how you overcame those those barriers? Getting the best of both worlds, it sounds like.

It really was. It was extraordinary. Um, so, we had already approached our, um, our local s- district superintendents and told them of our plans to start a specific charter school for kids with dyslexia. Uh, and we, you know, finding a building, as Senator Cassidy said, is one of the hardest things to do when you're starting a school. And, uh, it, our, um, Superintendent for the school district of Pickens County knew that we were having that struggle we needed seven classrooms and two offices he had seven classrooms and two offices we had a memorandum of understanding our lease was in place, and we operated as a school, an independent charter school, within that public school. And it worked out great.

OK. Dyslexia sounds like something you all are involved with as well. I hate to ask the question, I don't know the answer. Is the incidence increasing? Or is it just my imagination? Are we just able to diagnose it more? And compounded question here, what is the impact of social media and gaming and, and just the screen time in kids on, and dyslexia?

Uh, Miss Coco, I don't know if you wanna answer that, I c- I have thoughts but I'll also defer to you since you're the Special Ed Expert.

That's fine, sure.

What I can tell you, Senator Marshall, is that um in the most recent IDEA reporting, uh dyslexia falls within the category of specific learning disability under the IDEA, and that is the largest share of students with disabilities under the IDEA. Uh, Thinking off the top of my head, it was about thirty-three percent. Um, specific learning disabilities, which includes dyslexia, has always been one of the larger footprints within IDEA. Um, and I I think emphasis on science of reading and really strong early intervention practices which our organization deeply supports I think is helping us get a whole lot more sophisticated at how we identify and give students early interventions. What I can't speak to is any research on the connection with um Screen time, uh, outside my lane of expertise.

So with with your students with dyslexia, do you increa encourage them to have more screen time or less screen time? Or is that part of the prescription?

I do not know.

OK.

Um, I apologize, I can't answer that.

OK. Alright. Thanks so much, Chairman.

And I can say, Doctor Marshall, that a good longitudinal study out of Yale shows that twenty percent of the population has dyslexia. There's a spectrum. Some, like Ko- Toby G- Castro, the cardiovascular surgeon who headed, who headed uh Cleveland Clinic, was able to overcome it. Very bright man, but he still claims it. Um, others are so impaired that they literally cannot read. Um, that I think what we're seeing is an increased frequency of identification. Former Governor Hassan began to put a universal screening program in New Hampshire, so of course their internet went up. it's more that people are not being identified um uh but have it as opposed to i think the incidents rising so thank you um next would be senator kim

yeah thanks chairman thank you to the three of you for coming on out and and sharing with us miss coco uh i'd like to start with you uh in your testimony and what you just said before us you noted that congress when they passed idea in nineteen seventy five over fifty years ago the federal government committed to covering up to forty percent of the additional cost of educating a student with disabilities. What is that percentage right now?

Thank you, Senator Kim. Right now that percentage is about ten percent. Um, Congress has never fully funded the IDA, it's never reached forty percent. Uh, but the particular ten percent funding low is amongst the lowest that it's ever been. So what you have are states in um school districts that are receiving and bearing i think uh you know billions of dollars of overhead that uh could be covered by the federal government according to the original promise under law

thank you for explaining that because i'll be honest with you you know that is not something i knew prior to my time in congress i don't think a lot of americans understand uh what we're talking about here and i think it's incumbent upon this committee and us senators and those in congress to be thinking about what is the federal government's role and responsibilities but also how we may have contributed uh to the challenges that we're facing because i i liked how you framed it you're not trying to pit the schools against each other pit families against each other and i i guess i would just ask you you know what would be different in your mind if we were able to fully fund up to forty percent for the federal government how would this hearing be now if you felt like that was the circumstance i'm just curious your thoughts to project

Uh, when we look at, uh, and we spend a lot of time looking at, uh, state and local budgets, and uh particularly for charter schools, the resourcing that they get to do special education, they bear a disproportionate cost. And so they're left making very difficult decisions. Are we going to invest in, um, you know, having occupational therapists on staff? Or do we want to make a choice and have reading interventionists? And I envision a school where we have both. as well as social workers and school psychologists. Uh, and so I think that the funding strain that is put on, um, states and schools, it really puts them in very painful positions where they're bearing a significant amount of cost.

Cuz they're really stretching those limited resources in, in many different ways and now we're seeing, so this competition almost, uh, and again that's what's causing some of this. I- in your uh written testimony, uh i think you know you pointed out in in your your remarks you know the enrollment gap uh that we're seeing when it comes to the number of students with disabilities in charter schools as opposed to traditional public schools but in your written testimony you actually point out there there is perhaps even more concerning data about the actual uh data about academic gains so it's not just about enrollment would you would you mind just kind of going into that a little bit more deep in terms of just what is the gap on the academic gains uh that is drawing your attention to this

yeah absolutely uh probably the seminal researchers on this are out of stanford university at uh the credo study their last findings um i think in twenty twenty four looked at different subgroups of students and whether their gains were greater in traditional public schools or in charter schools and i do wanna compliment charter schools who looked like in for most student subgroups they were showing greater gains the one student subgroup that did not show gains greater in traditional publics than in charter schools, and in fact showed academic learning losses were students with disabilities. It brings me no joy to say that, uh, but it certainly drives the why of our work, and that's a trend that we see in most, uh, charter communities around the country that we partner with.

If we're able to provide more of that federal funding, do you think that could unlock opportunities that could close some of that academic gap there? I'm just trying to think through, is this just a a a situation where uh you know we are able to provide more uh that you know the charter schools themselves as well as the public schools can be able to increase that academic gain that the students with disabilities will have

uh you know we certainly feel that more money particularly for the IDEA is is very needed and very necessary i also wanna be mindful of critics who say we can't just buy our way out of the nation's educational outcome crisis for students So I think where Congress is at its best is when it appropriately funds all the sub-parts of our education budgets. And it gives very clear instructions about how we're incentivizing the things we wanna see. And we do that with a fully staffed and fully functioning department of ed that's steering states and districts across the country in the right direction.

No, thank you for that. And and uh as I close here, I just wanna say, you know, it everything that comes before us here in Congress, it's a choice, it's a choice of what we fund and prioritize. as a father of a third grader and a fifth grader i of course i wanna look out what's best for my kids but in this job i'm also tasked with looking out for everyone's kids and these choices before us when i think about how it would cost forty billion dollars for this country to fully fund idea uh and think about all the other choices that we're facing right now and i'll be honest as i've been coming in and out of hearings about the iran war forty billion is about what we spent on the last couple of weeks of that war you know we have opportunities here to actually be able to invest and be able to close these gaps. So I just urge our Senate colleagues here to understand the trade-offs here, and hopefully we can prioritize our kids. And with that, I'll yield back.

Thank you.

Um, hey y'all. Thank you again for being here, I appreciate it. Um, Miss Jackson, you um had an option for traditional school, but you chose geo. Um, can you tell me, was it just that you wanted them all to attend the same school?

Um, I had the opportunity to put them in a public school, um, but I put them in a charter school, and the reason why, um, honestly is because when I look at I wanna make sure I use my words correctly when it comes to this, is when it comes to my daughters, do I believe that my daughters, if they would have went to a public school, do I believe that they would have been given the same opportunity to become dollar victorians or to exceed as high as they did no i do not um the reason why is because most of the time in in those public schools and most public schools you still deal with um the minority you still deal with them not being able to um get certain things um with counseling or with people looking out for them to make sure that they exceed and

uh hang on hang on i actually found a lot of agreement here between the three witnesses. Let me just say that. And I think there's support for both educational options, but Miss Coco would be making the point that some charter schools don't have insufficient scale by which to provide services. But you just raised the issue, and I didn't know you were gonna do this, that that you actually receive more support of certain types for your daughters at the charter school, than they you felt they would have they would have received at the traditional school

yes sir

ok uh because by the way one thing miss coco said is that we need more accountability for the charter schools but perhaps we also need it for the traditional schools uh because i think you mentioned miss vaughn that the um dislect was it you i have to go back to your testimony i've heard this so often maybe it was miss mcdonnell whom i quoted um that that the services for children with dyslexia were not what they needed to be in the traditional school indeed the kind of very far-sighted superintendent in pickens county knew they weren't meeting the need and they actually provided you supplement is that a fair summary

that is a fair summary and you're absolutely right um my daughter had a diagnosis of specific learning disability with dyslexia and dysgraphia and she was not given an iep or a five O four in our traditional public school because she was on.

Now you you don't impress me as a wallflower. You know I'm saying? You know, just whatever reason I'm not getting into the vibe that you're a shrinking violet. So, when when when they didn't give it to your daughter, I can't believe that you were just going to be, OK, my daughter didn't get it. So what did you do then?

We started a charter school.

Did you ask them to give the DEA, the IDEA, or the, you see what I'm saying, the account?

We did. We did.

And, and they didn't get it.

They didn't. My daughter did get a five O four eventually, but it was actually because um ultimately she ended up with a diagnosis of generalized anxiety disorder because her needs for dyslexia were not being met, and she was having panic attacks in the classroom.

Um, and I recall from a different conversation that her panic attacks receded, went away after she started getting her dyslexia.

Yes, sir.

Now, Miss Coco, you um, uh, really intriguing testimony, kind of a chicken and egg. On the one hand, you're saying that the charter school, and I think we could all agree that, that schools need to be held accountable whatever they're setting there in. Cuz clearly the schools were not addressing your daughter's need. Um, but you you see if I get this right. On the one hand, charter schools are not providing the services mandated under law because they have insufficient scale. But they have insufficient scale because Miss Vaughn would say that they've got. too few resources one of you said seventy five percent of the resources as of a traditional school so how do you square that how do we do we equalize funding between a child let the money follow the student and the same amount of funding goes wherever the student goes whether she goes to a charter or a traditional public your thoughts

thank you senator um a couple you know policy solutions that we've you know at the center for learner equity we've thought about when it comes to that funding and resource gap that is something we're very vocal about at the state level um solutions include where charter schools are being denied access to state high cost services or excess cost funds again not a monolith in some states it works well in too many states it doesn't there's also services and supports that charter schools often need to reimburse for medicaid that's a very uh taxing procedural process where when charter schools are very small it's difficult to do So those are some of the uh interventions that we think of that would help. That being said, I think you you are right, I I spent a decade representing students in charter schools and in traditional publics, and I can tell you I've been in good ones of all stripes, and in ones of all stripes where it was really underwhelming and students' needs were very much so going unmet. Um, I think it brings us back again to that need, particularly for a fully functioning department of ed, that is consistently implementing an IDEA oversight, as well as an office for civil rights where families can file complaints if they really truly feel they're being ignored.

I will point out, and then I'll go to um Senator Kain, Miss Vaughn, uh it sounds like roughly a hundred percent of your patients have a specific learning disorder which is to say uh a hundred percent of people are special needs, if you will. Uh and so so you are actually and pr- and as you kind of uh um suggested you may even get referrals from traditional schools, which decreases, I won't say their burden, but just decreases the number of kids who they have to address. Is that a fair statement?

That is a fair statement, yes.

Yeah, so we can't say that you're ducking it, or schools like yours are. Uh, with that I'll go to Senator Cain.

Thank you, Mister Chair, and thanks for holding this hearing. Um, it's a really important topic, um, the topic of making sure that students with disabilities have the same opportunities to be all they can be as anybody. And, you know, it's interesting, the IDEA in in some ways might be the one of the most successful civil rights laws that's ever passed. Even though we've never done what we should have done on the funding side, nobody ever says repeal the IDEA because the origin of the IDEA, that a student with a designated disability should get an individualized education plan to make sure that student can achieve more, that's such a powerful idea that even without there's too much paperwork. or there's not enough funding, the the concept cannot be denied. And if you think about the the delta of what students with disabilities have been able to accomplish post-IDEA from pre-IDEA, I think you would say, wow, this has been an enormously successful law, if it's implemented. And so the funding issue I think is really important. My my wife and I have three kids who went through the public schools in Richmond. It is a It is a um uh K twelve system that has about twenty five thousand students. My wife's currently on the school board in Richmond. Um, it is a high poverty system. Probably ninety percent of the kids in the schools are on free and reduced lunch. It is a um majority minority system. And yet, it's a system that uh works really well for a lot of kids. Certainly for my kids, one of my kids was on an IEP. Um, you know this, but not everybody knows, a student with a designated disability often only needs an IEP for a couple of years. In my, one of my kids' instance it was speech therapy. You get designated as needing speech therapy, got a couple of really good years with a speech therapist, and after two years didn't need the IEP anymore. And so you provide that targeted service, and in my case it was done very successfully within a public school setting. Um, and then the student advances to the place where the IEP is no longer necessary. For others the IEP will always be. uh a feature of their of their education so we do need to do better on the the funding side what i wanna talk to you about miss coco is i'm really worried about the dismantling of the of the department of education and how it impacts our enforcement of the idea so here here's a stat in twenty twenty five virginians submitted a total of five hundred and seventy cases to the office of civil rights of the department of education A hundred and thirty of those five hundred and seventy were connected to students with disabilities. Um, twenty-seven were for being harassed over disabilities, and a hundred and three were the more common claim that, hey, we're not being provided the services that the IDEA says, we're not getting a free appropriate public education. Of those five hundred and seventy cases that were submitted in twenty twenty-five, only one was resolved. The OCR is is being dramatically shrunk. The number of cases that the OCR OCR takes is reducing. Their workload is dramatically reducing. And that leaves parents, whether they're parents of a kid in a charter school or in a public school, like really without somebody to go to bat for them. And I'm very, very troubled by that. And and the next thing I'm troubled by is the Trump administration has decided to defund much of the DOE and and work that's done by contractors to DOE effort to produce data, like to produce data to show how are students in rural schools doing, how are students in urban schools doing, how are students with disabilities doing, how are uh white kids doing, how are African American kids doing, how are Latino kids or other kids who are English language learners doing. One of the first things that the administration did, which seems to me to run counter to the whole notion that we ought to be promoting improvement, we scrapped so much of the research and so much of the data that was being done. So let me ask you this, how troubled are you, Ms. Kogo, with a Department of Ed that is shrinking and being dismantled, including the core civil servants who are trying to enforce this really important law, who, that we all support?