Nominations of Matsumoto for BLS Commissioner, Macy, Prouty for NLRB

the committee senate committee on health education labor and pensions will please come to order i apologize for being late there was a business meeting in e n r that went long so i apologize first i thank the nominees for being here and your families for agreeing to the sacrifice that you're making on behalf of our country The National Labor Relations Board, or NLRB, is tasked with resolving labor disputes and protecting workers' rights under federal law. Under the Biden administration, the NLRB overturned decades of precedent, creating instability for workers in the nation's economy. We now have the opportunity to put workers first and maintain the board's quorum so that it works as it is supposed to work. If confirmed to the NLRB, Mister Jim Macy and Mister David Prouty will be charged to clear the backlog of cases and restore certainty for workers in the nation's economy. In addition to the NLRB nominees, we will hear from Doctor Brett Matsumoto, nominated to be the Commissioner at the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The current job report process is not working, with significant corrections to the numbers months later, resulting in large swings in the stock market and the retirement portfolios for many Americans. It's confirmed Doctor Matsumoto will be tasked with bringing transparency, innovation and accuracy to our nation's economic data, including job numbers. Thank you all for being here. Again, thank to the families for the support they give you. And with that, I recognize Senator Sanders.

Thank you, Mister Chairman. Um At a time of massive income and wealth inequality where the people on top have never done better, while sixty percent of our people live in paychecks to paycheck. struggling to put food on the table or pay for healthcare uh workers all over this country are turning to unions as a way to get decent wages decent working conditions decent benefits that's the fact they're hurting they understand that they can't do it alone they need solidarity and they're working with unions and what we are also seeing is that while workers want uh to join unions we are seeing in incredibly brazen ways company is breaking the law you wanna form a union we're gonna fire you we're gonna move to china um uh you gonna be penalized all because you wanna be part of a union and if by some reason workers actually form a union uh it takes them forever to get a first contract and then workers then become demoralized uh and they they give up on the process so forming a union is a constitutional right workers wanna do it and in order for them to be successful uh they need a national labor relations board which stands up for them which is in fact what the nlrb is supposed to do unfortunately uh that has not been the case and that effort uh anti-worker effort is being led by president trump who has ripped up the union contracts of a million federal workers has illegally fired hundreds of thousands of workers has rescinded a federal rule that would have provided overtime pay to more than four million workers and in the first year in office he effectively shut down the nlrb the only federal agency in america that can hold corporations accountable for illegal union busting by illegally firing when uh wilcox this morning we will be considering two of president trump's nlrb nominees james macy who would be new to the board and david proudy to serve another term at this agency. Uh, Mister Chairman, I support Mister Prouty's renomination, but I am opposed to Mister Macy's nomination. And let me very briefly tell you why. As I understand it, Mister Macy has spent most of his career representing the interests of management, not ordinary workers. Further, as a senior official at the Department of Labor, Mister Macy has worked on policies that undermine working families. For example, at the Department of Labor, he worked on a proposed rule that would deny over a million home care workers, the right to the federal minimum wage and overtime pay. Uh. Mister Chairman, we need members of the NLRB who will protect the rights of workers, not undermine them. We also, today, considering the nomination of Brett Matsumoto to be commissioned of the Bureau of Labor Statistics, a very, very important position. a couple of months ago president trump made the unacceptable decision to fire the previous bls commissioner doctor erica uh macantherfer uh because he absurdly claimed that she rigged and manipulated employment statistics that was of course a lie doctor uh macantherfer was confirmed in the senate by a vote of eighty six to eight with an overwhelming majority of republicans and democrats voting for a confirmation She was extremely well qualified and there was zero evidence that she did anything inappropriate. So, uh, I will not support the nomination of Doctor Matsumoto. Thank you.

We're join uh begin with Mister Macy. We're joined today by James Macy, nominee for the National Labor Relations Board. He'll be introduced by our colleague, Senator Ron Johnson, who represents Mister Macy's home state of Wisconsin. uh i noticed that you both pronounced johnson the same way which tells me that there's a wisconsin accent you know what i'm saying and uh uh so i what's that yeah it is no accent that's only if you're from louisiana i yield to my colleague senator johnson uh thank you and i look forward to hearing from you mister macy after that

we're we're not the ones that talk funny here but uh you know mr uh chairman cassidy ranking member uh sanders members of the committee It is my honor to introduce Jim Macy as a nominee to serve on the National Labor Relations Board. Like me, Jim's hometown is Oshkosh, Wisconsin. I've known and worked with Jim for more than twenty years. He was my comp- company's outside counsel on labor matters, and we served together on multiple boards of Oshkosh community organizations. He is a consummate professional, who maintains the highest standard of integrity. Jim brings more than four decades of experience in labor and employment law, grounded in both deep professional expertise and a lifelong commitment to public service. A native in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, he was raised in Menominee Falls and educated in s- in the state's public schools, graduating the top ten percent of his high school class. He graduated summa cum laude from the University of Wisconsin La Crosse, with with a bachelor's of science degree in political science. He earned his law degree from the University of Wisconsin Law School, working multiple jobs to finance his education. Jim was a partner at several prominent Milwaukee-based law firms, where he focused primarily on labor and employment matters. He chaired multiple labor and employment practice groups, and earns a consistent recognition from best lawyers in America and super lawyers for his professional excellence. He's admitted to practice in both Wisconsin and Florida. Beyond his legal career, Jim has always demonstrated a strong commitment to his community. He has served in numerous leadership roles, including chair of the Oshkosh area chamber of commerce, chair of the leadership Oshkosh steering committee, and chair of the grand opera house board, uh, supporting the arts. He's also contributed his time to local school foundation, a municipal zoning board of review, and Lakeside Packaging Plus, an organization dedicated to expanding opportunities for individuals with diverse abilities. Following his retirement from private practice, Jim continued his public service by joining the Department of Labor in September, twenty twenty five. Since then he has served as Senior Counselor in the Secretary's office, acting as Administrator for the, of the Wage and Hour Division, and currently as Director of the Office of Workers' Compensation Programs. In each role, he has demonstrated exceptional leadership and a commitment to advancing the department's mission. Jim is a devoted father, Jim is a devoted father of three sons, a long-time youth sports coach and official, as one would expect a loyal Wisconsin Badgers and Green Bay Packer fan. Also like me, Jim is a connoisseur of Oshkosh of uh Wisconsin's finest cheese curds. I think you guys have uh learned to appreciate those as well. Uh, his depth of experience, dedication to fairness in the workplace, and record of service make him a strong and well-qualified nominee for the National Labor Relations Board. I highly recommend that the members of this committee support his nomination. Thank you.

Mister Macy.

Good morning. Chairman Cassidy, Ranking Member Sanders, And members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. I'd also like to thank Senator Johnson for his kind introduction and for being here today. I greatly appreciate his support and his friendship. While I have the support, the full support of my sons, Jack and Austin, and my stepson, Ben, they're not able to be here today. Um, Jack is attending US Marine Officer School at Quantico. Austin's back at home working in auto sales and Ben's back at home working for the city of Oshkosh. I am proud of all of them. I'm truly honored to be here and grateful to President Trump for nominating me to serve on the National Labor Relations Board. I am a lifelong Wisconsinite and should the Senate see fit to confirm my nomination, I'd be the first NLRB member from Wisconsin since the board was established under the act. While one Wisconsinite was appointed to the pres- predecessor NLRB, NLB, he served four months limited to assisting with the establishment of that board. It would be an incredible privilege to serve in coming from the Midwest. I was born in Milwaukee, grew up in the suburb of Menominee Falls, attended the University of La Crosse, Wisconsin La Crosse, and earned my law degree from the University of Wisconsin Law School. I am a product of the strong Wisconsin public school system. My parents taught me the values of hard work, honesty, education, and respect for all people. Those values have guided me throughout my life and career. I practiced labor and employment law for more than forty years. During that time, I primarily represented employers. Participated in hundreds of collective bargaining negotiations. Tried hundreds of administrative cases. Appeared before most, if not all, of the state and federal labor agencies. Worked with employees and representatives of union and management across many different industries and with many different unions. I also acted as an independent hearing officer in over a hundred separate due process cases. These experiences taught me the importance of listening carefully, respecting different points of view, and building on common ground, finding practical solutions. They also gave me a deep appreciation for the role of the National Labor Relations Act and what it plays in promoting stable labor-management relations. More recently, I've had the privilege of serving at the Department of Labor, first as senior counselor to the secretary's office, then as acting administrator for the wage and hour division, and currently as the director of the office of workers' compensation programs. In each of these roles, my focus remain on following the law and forwarding the president's initiative in helping the American workers. Senators, I can tell you all, you can all be proud of the many dedicated employees at each of these agencies, and the work they're doing every day, again, in support of the American workers. I've always appreciated the vital role that the National Labor Relations Board plays in protecting the rights of all employees to freely associate and bargain collectively as they decide while promoting stability and labor management relations. I have always appreciated the vital role the National Labor Relations Board plays in supporting commerce. Workers deserve to know that their statutory rights will be protected. Employers in labor organizations of all sizes deserve clarity, competence, and impartiality from government. I also recognize the importance of timely decision making. Delays can be difficult for all parties involved in a labor dispute. While every case must be considered carefully and decided on its merits, I believe the board should strive to resolve all matters as efficiently as possible and provide prompt, fair adjudication to those who come before the agency. I compliment current members, Murphy, Mayer, and Prouty for the work they've done on the backlog, and I welcome the opportunity to assist them if confirmed. It'd be a tremendous honor to serve on the National Labor Relations Board. I pledge that if confirmed, I will faithfully uphold my oath of office, and discharge my responsibilities with integrity, fairness, and independence. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. I look forward to your questions, with the exception of maybe cheese curds.

Next, we're joined by a board member, David Prouty, nominee uh for, I guess, reappointment to the National Labor Relations Board. He'll be introduced by our colleague, Senator Chris Van Hollen, who represents

Well, thank you, uh, Mr. Chairman, ranking member Sanders, uh, members of the committee. I'm honored to join you to once again, uh, introduce David Prouty, who hails from my home state of Maryland and has been nominated by the president to serve a second term on the National Labor Relations Board. As you know, we have a long history of pairing nominees to ensure that the independent agencies of government remain balanced. And I appreciate the chairman for continuing that tradition by considering the nominations of both Mister Macy and Mister Prouty today. Five years ago, when he first came before the Senate, Mister Prouty brought with him a distinguished career as a leading labor attorney. His professional life has been devoted to representing working people and defending their rights guaranteed under our country's labor laws. And so over the last five years, Mister Prouty has served as a member of the NLRB during a consequential period for American labor relations. The board, as you know, has confronted significant questions involving organizing rights, collective bargaining, workplace protections and the interpretation of the National Labor Labor Relations Act in a rapidly changing economy. Throughout his tenure on the NLRB, Mister Prouty has exemplified the board's mission by enforcing the country's labor laws in order to promote stability in labor management relations and encourage collective bargaining. Mr. Prouty's service reflects an understanding that the board benefits from a diversity of professional experiences and viewpoints. He has served alongside workers advancing collective bargaining and he has spent the last five years working alongside colleagues whose backgrounds include management-side labor law, and government service, and together they have protected and promoted the rights of workers in accordance with the law. The NLRB's work often involves issues that generate strong views from workers, employers, unions, and policymakers alike. Members of this committee know that, but one of the hallmarks of public service is the willingness to approach these questions thoughtfully, engage seriously, with competing arguments, and faithfully apply the law. Mr. Prouty has proven his ability to do just that over the last five years as a board member. Whether serving as advocate, counselor, or NLRB board member, he has dedicated his professional life to America's workers, and I appreciate his willingness to continue to serve colleagues. It's for those reasons that, and many more, I should say, that I'm honored to present to you one of the president's nominees to serve on the national labor relations board maryland's own david prouty

mr. prouty

thank you members and members of the committee thank you for the opportunity to appear before you i'm honored by president trump's nomination and by your consideration of me for a second term uh uh as a member of the national labor relations board i wanna thank uh senator van holland for his kind introduction uh I'm joined here today by my brother Douglas Prouty, who's a former Montgomery County, Maryland high school teacher, and also, I should note, president of its teachers' union. My wife, Olive Krohn, a midwife and a native of the Republic of Ireland, is home recovering from a broken ankle. She is watching remotely, as are my sisters, Carolyn and Eleanor, and my children, Connor and Molly. Also no doubt watching are the members of my outstanding staff at the NLRB, as well as many other colleagues from our great agency. Since twenty twenty one, I've built a record of decisions and statements as a board member, and that's probably the most relevant information for you to consider, as you pass on my qualifications for a second term. But I'll make a few brief points nonetheless. First, I'm happy to report that since the Senate confirmed the nominations of my two new colleagues and they took office in January of this year not only was a quorum of the NLRB restored so that the board could return to issuing decisions, but we have also been prolific in doing so. Since early January we've reduced the backlog at the NLRB of five hundred ninety-one cases, down to three hundred ninety-six. Course in the meantime a hundred and seventy-four new cases came through the door, but in total we've decided three hundred sixty-nine cases in the brief five months since the quorum was restored. I believe the board operates best with its full complement of five members, so whilst of course in my self-interest to say so, i do hope the senate will act promptly and favorably on the nominations of my friend mister macy and myself so that we can keep that momentum going second it's been an honor to serve as a member of the of the board for the past five years in that time i've come to have a greater appreciation for the nlrb its history its mission and most of all for the dedicated government employees who work for it and who are committed to enforcing the rights of workers protected by the national labor relations act Third, as my resume makes clear, I spent the thirty first thirty-five years of my legal career as a union side lawyer. I proudly represented a wide spectrum of workers from clothing, textile, and laundry employees, to hotel housekeepers, to restaurant staff, to major league baseball players, to building doormen and janitors, and I negotiated dozens of collective bargaining agreements with those workers' employers. However, I've spent the past five years as a neutral. conscientiously applying the law to the facts of each case. Of course, every person on the board brings their different life experiences to this task. And my understanding of the act is no doubt shaped by the years I spent litigating both unfair labor practice cases and union elect election cases before the NLRB. But I believe that the public and the parties who appear by the board are all best served by having a variety of viewpoints within the labor management field, represented on the board. The current board, for instance, consists of myself, a former union lawyer, along with Scott Mayer, a lifetime management lawyer, and Jim Murphy, a career NLRB lawyer. Each of us, and Mister Macy, should we both be confirmed by the Senate, will approach our jobs from a different point of view, and I think that's a good thing. Finally, I'm proud of my record as a board member. No doubt you'll have questions about some of the cases we decided during the Biden board era and I welcome them. But whether you agree or disagree with my positions, I can assure you that each decision was carefully studied by each board member involved and was released only after thorough consideration of all sides of the issues presented. And as you'll see, I haven't always agreed with my board colleagues, be they a Republican or Democrat. I've always voted the courage of my convictions. And the one promise I can make if I'm confirmed again is that I will continue, as we say in baseball, to call them as I see them. i also wanna say that nlrb members republicans and democrats very often agree historically well over eighty percent of the cases decided by the nlrb are decided unanimously that is by a three zero vote of the panel assigned to the case in fact of of the over two hundred thirty contested cases that we have decided since january only nine times has anyone admittedly usually me dissented as i said in my opening statement five years ago i believe in the guiding behind the national labor relations act and which its preamble so eloquently declares, is intended to quote " encourage the practice and procedure of collective bargaining". I believe that everyone, employees, employers, unions, and the public at large is best served when workers and their employers can sit across the table from one another as equals under the law, and negotiate in an open, respectful, and creative manner over the terms and conditions of their employment. Thank you, and I'd be happy to answer any questions you have.

Thank you, sir. Uh, next we're joined by Doc, uh, Doctor Brett Matsumoto, nominee to be the Commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The doctor is a research economist at the Bureau of Labor Statistics Division of Price Indexed Numbers Research. He has specialized in research to support the consumer price index, particularly medical research. He received his undergraduate and master's degree from the University of Delaware, and PHD in economics from the University of North Carolina Chapel Hill. Thank you, sir, for being with us.

Good morning. Uh, Chairman Cassidy, Ranking Member Sanders, and members of the committee, it is an honor to appear before you as a nominee to be Commissioner of the Bureau of Labor Statistics. It is an honor to have been nominated by President Trump for this important position. Before beginning, I would like to thank all of the people who are responsible for getting me to where I am today. my parents and my older brothers, as well as other relatives, teachers, and mentors. I would also like to thank everyone who made positive statements regarding my nomination. When President Trump announced the intention to nominate me for this position, there was a lot of media interest. Although reading news stories about myself is something I'm still getting used to, I was humbled by the positive reactions of economists across the political spectrum. I grew up in Delaware and attended college at the University of Delaware. After graduating with degrees in philosophy, history, economics, and a master's in economics, I went to the University of North Carolina for a PHD in economics, where I specialized in applied microeconomics. After completing my PHD, I got a job at the Bureau of Labor Statistics. I have worked for the Bureau of Labor Statistics since two thousand fifteen, on economic measurement topics. I have published on topics relating to inflation and consumption measurement. i have also worked on projects to support the production offices uh mainly the consumer price index program uh this includes work on alternative data projects uh most notably a project to to replace traditionally collected data with insurance claims data for the medical price indexes in september twenty twenty four i was promoted to a supervisory position where i oversee a small team of economists in the first trump administration i did a detail the council of economic advisors where i worked on labor and health topics in early twenty twenty five i was asked to do another detail by the incoming chairman of the cea and i have been in that role since while working at the cea i have gained a great appreciation for the official economic statistics from the perspective of a data user much of the analysis done at the cea would be impossible without the official data and having timely and accurate data is extremely important in the process of developing good economic policies. I believe strongly in the mission of the BLS to produce objective quality measures and analyses of labor market activity working conditions, price changes and productivity in the United States economy to support public and private decision making. To achieve this mission, it is important for the public to be confident that decisions at the BLS are being driven by science rather than politics. If confirmed, I will commit to maintain the integrity and independence of the BLS. Also, any changes to data or methods will be approved by career staff at the agency and communicated to the public ahead of time, along with research supporting the change. If confirmed, I would be leading the BLS at a pivotal moment. Our statistical system is built upon surveys of businesses and households. The continued decline in response rates threatens the future reliability of a survey-based statistical system, and may already be having impacts on sample sizes, the variability of data, and revisions. My priority as Commissioner would be pursuing efforts to mitigate the decline in response rates while pursuing a research agenda into alternative data sources that could be used to supplement or replace traditional survey data. I will also focus on improving

thank you uh i'll begin with you sir you you mentioned alternative data sources for context uh bls overestimated job growth by uh eight hundred and sixty one thousand million jobs That can't be right, right? Is that right? From April twenty fourth to March twenty twenty five, the largest revision since you began tracking this data, and you mentioned using alternative survey sources. Do you have an idea of what those alternative sources would be?

Yeah, so, when looking at uh payroll data specifically, uh there are a number of potential uh alternative data sources. Um, now, each of these has a number of uh say pros and cons as well as potential costs um but just just to go through the list uh one possibility would be uh the data from payroll companies um another possibility would be potentially to use uh tax withholding data and a final possibility is to use the data that go into the uh that are reported to the state ui systems um and these are the data that are actually already used as part of the benchmarking process um But like I said, uh, there there would be challenges for each of those, but those are the the avenues uh, I mean I could go into more detail if you want, but those would be the possible potential alternative data sources.

OK. Mister Prouty, um, in recent years the board has seen massive policy swings with each administration. We spoke about that in our personal conversation. And it makes it eliminate certainty. Uh, it makes it more difficult for both the unions and management to kind of plot So, can you speak to how you approach when to change precedent and what factors you consider when doing so?

Uh, thank you for that question, Senator, as we discussed in our our meeting yesterday. Um, uh, we don't scan the horizon looking for cases to overturn. Generally, the way it works is that the general counsel will bring us cases and recommend that we overturn precedent sometimes we do and sometimes we don't. Um, but as quasi judges that's our job is to judge the cases before us if the general counsel asks however uh the things we consider are what was the precedent how long and how well reason was the precedent and sometimes some of them are not well reasoned how long it's been in effect um and also how the world may have changed since that precedent was first established um we've got a ninety year old act um that sometimes keeps pace with the economy of today and sometimes doesn't And then we also consider if we're going to change precedent, should we do it prospectively, uh, or should we do it retroactively? And often we do it prospectively for the very reason, as you mentioned, of fairness, which is to give, uh, the parties going forward the expectation of how their, uh, behavior will be judged going forward, but not to play gotcha with them going back.

I see. When should the board preempt specific cases with rulemaking that broadly applies.

Well, thank you for the question, Senator. I- in terms of rulemaking, the statute, as you know, uh, Congress put in the statute that authority for - for the board to consider. I think that is a tool that should be considered by the board. I think the rulemaking tool does give the the opportunity for notice and review. I have had some experience in in my time at wage and hour and at a workers' compensation to work on that, and I respect that process. But as member Prouty also indicated, a number of the matters come to the board, to the board for consideration. So some of those things happen through, through adjudication.

I'm not sure you answered the question though. Uh, yes, it comes through adjudication perhaps. and you have the right to exercise it, when would you exercise that right? Uh, with rulemaking as opposed to merely wait for or only wait for a case to come before you.

Uh, thank you for the clarification on that. I, as it comes through adjudication, of course we'd have to hear the cases that, that come to us and decide those. Through rulemaking I think there are areas we should look at that are broader, having impact, that, that could use some resolution. I, I, i think it would be helpful in the areas where we seen swings back and forth uh between the different decisions that don't add to stability that aren't helpful to the practitioners to the employees to the unions and i think those may be right for rule making

thank you mr. chairman and let me thank the panelists for being here this morning uh mr. macy um you have served as i understand in several roles at the current labor department, uh, including the acting administrator of the wage and hour division. Uh, the wage and hour division proposed a rule to strip home care workers of their right to minimum wage and overtime. Do you really believe that home care workers should be paid less than seven dollars and twenty-five cents an hour and not ca- not get paid time and a half for overtime?

Thank you, Senator, for your question. within the rule making authority in matters that are pending in that regard i'm not at liberty to really discuss those aspects of it and the background of those those type of issues

ok uh mister macy do you believe it was illegal for president trump to fire quinn wilcox as a member of the nlrb which effectively shut down the nlrb last year

Well, Senator, that's a matter pending in litigation and my role or potential role, uh, assuming I'm confirmed, uh, i- is not to comment on matters that are in pending litigation.

No opinion, no opinion on the legal.

It wouldn't be appropriate for me to comment on that.

Appropriate, OK. Uh, Mister Macy, as you know, one of the most common union busting tactics is to interrogate workers and subject them to mandatory captive audience meetings uh do you have a comment on that do you agree that those meetings should be illegal

well again as i understand it there are matters that are pending before the board that that may touch upon that subject and again it wouldn't be appropriate for me to to comment on that i do think

uh you know you're coming before this

i do

you're coming before the committee and you apparently have no opinions as to what you're gonna do it makes it hard for us to assess the role you gonna play and that re confirms my feeling that i'm gonna vote against you uh mister proudie uh and mister macy spacex owned by elon musk and amazon owned by jeff bezos two of the wealthiest guys in the world have filed lawsuits arguing that the nlrb board is unconstitutional mister proudie is the nlrb board unconstitutional

uh thank you senator sanders uh under the jones and Laughlin decision of the supreme court going back to just after the act was enacted it would found the act to be constitutional so the answer to your question is yes

mr. macy is the nlrb board unconstitutional

i concur with uh member proudie that according to the united states supreme court uh as it stands today and that that's what's been found by the court that it is

um

Let me ask both, Mister Prouty and Mister Macy, uh, yes or no, do you support the pro-act that would make it easier for workers to form unions and hold corporations accountable for illegal union busting?

Senator, it wouldn't be appropriate for me to comment on proposed legislation. My job is to enforce the act as written. If the act changes, I'll enforce the act as it changes.

Let me guess, Mister Macy, you're not gonna comment on that either, huh?

I would not be able to, Senator. Thank you.

alright uh mister matsumoto uh the bureau of labor statistics has been highly uh politicized by president trump uh among other things he claimed that your predecessor uh erica mcinturfer quote quote faked the jobs numbers before the election to try to try to boost commoner's chance of victory end quote do you agree with that statement

uh the the president's statements uh speak for themselves and i'm not i'm not gonna comment on them

he got rid of you all predecessors because he thought she was corrupt basically no comment on that

uh it's it's not appropriate for me to to comment on presidential personal decisions

well let me ask you this if the president of the united states demands that you change the numbers in the jobs report to make him look better Will you obey him? Or will you follow the law?

I do not believe that the president would ask me to do that.

Really?

Uh, however, I I will follow the law, uh, and I I can commit that, um, the the numbers that are compiled by the career staff, uh, at the BLS, uh, uh, if confirmed, those are the numbers that will be released to the public, uh, as scheduled.

OK, thank you.

Uh, Senator Murkowski.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, Uh, Mister Macy, can you commit to enforcing the National Labor Relations Act fairly, regardless of employer or union affiliation?

Yes, Senator.

Mister Prouty, same question to you, can you commit to enforcing the National Labor Relations Act fairly regardless of employer or union affiliation?

Yes.

Thank you both. Um, as you may know, Alaska has a number of tribes and Alaska Native corporations that operate both public and private sector enterprises. Um hopefully very quickly, how how would you approach questions of labor law as they relate to sovereign entities, or perhaps more complex jurisdictional questions? And I'll I'll pose that to either one of you or both. Mister Prouty.

Well thank you, Senator. Um I I think the answer to that is going to depend on the cases that come before us. I can't um make a pronouncement going forward based on a hypothetical

But you're you're recognizing that when you're dealing with a sovereign entity, it is it is different than what you may have in your regular stack in front of you.

It is, and I've spent some time in Alaska so I'm aware of that, but um again we we can only consider the cases that come before us

Yes.

and I can't really comment on issues that might come before us.

Understood. Thank you. I just I just want an acknowledgement that we are dealing with um Yes. different entities here. Thank you for that. Uh, let me ask you, mister uh, or doctor Matsumoto. Um, and again, this is bringing it back to to my home state. Uh, BLS tracks consumer prices in major urban areas, uh, but my sense is that it is less, uh, effective in capturing the the astronomical cost that we see in our uh, more remote parts of Alaska or off-road communities, whether it's the cost of goods, fuels, air freight, uh, transportation. And and further to that point, um, it's difficult to, um, to capture the value that comes with, uh, subsistence economies to community resilience. It just, it doesn't fit neat boxes. And this is why when we look at some of the challenges that we face in Alaska, we're arguing for more flexibility, we're arguing for more support, because the actual cost to the individual has not been accurately reflected. We are measured against against other um uh population centers that may be connected by road. Right now, I've got communities in Alaska that will be seeing fuel supplies delivered for the first time since September. And it's not because of anybody's fault, that's just the natural cycle. There's two fuel barges that come twice a year, in June, right about now, and then in September. So think about what that does to the cost of everything else. So the question that I have for you is how or whether the BLS BLS can expand or reform its methodologies to better reflect some of the challenges that we see in more remote uh and and highly rural areas. Uh again, reflecting high costs um for transportation, but also the the the complicating overlay of of subsistence activities into um uh uh a metrics that is utilized by BLS.

Uh yeah. Uh thank you for the question. Um I I I agree, it's it's very important. Um the the cpi uh it's restricted to the to the urban population uh now it now urban is defined in such a way that that ends up covering about ninety some percent of the of the population however that still leaves uh a quite substantial portion of the population uh not covered by the index it's something that i've i've long had an interest in uh and certainly it's something that i would uh look forward to uh if confirmed uh looking into seeing if that if there are any ways to expand the coverage

Well, and I I I guess I would put the same challenge to you, um, as as I did with Mister Macy and and uh Mister Prouty in terms of just recognizing that when you're dealing with with tribal entity that is a sovereign entity, uh, look at that differently, but again, when you are dealing with populations that are extremely remote, um, uh, you might need to do a different calculus here. I'd I'd also like to know from you and and I, excuse me, I guess this comes back to to Mister Macy and Mister uh uh Prouty here. Um we we we acknowledge that there is a backlog that continues across the NLRB, but we seem to see it greater in the more remote and rural areas of the country. How would you propose to address that? Uh we need to focus on the backlog, but we've got a real problem when it comes to our rural areas. Mister Prouty.

Um while I acknowledge the problem, Senator, um the regional areas of the nlrb are overseen by the general counsel um there has been a shortage of staffing which we're which she is trying to address now by hiring more people she's also um has an initiative which i can't really comment on but to try to redistribute the cases to make uh the processing of cases more efficient particularly i think in rural areas so that's the extent of my knowledge of that

thank you thank you mr. chairman

thank you Senator Baldwin.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, uh, Mr. Prouty and Mr. Macy, uh, I wanna talk a little bit about the NLRB, uh, budget to begin with. It's the sole agency that can conduct and certify union elections. And unless an employer voluntarily recognizes a union, this is the only way to form one. The right of workers to organize depends on the NLRB's ability to function and There are workers in Wisconsin, uh, including nurses at Saint Mary's Hospital, uh, in Madison who are scheduled to vote on forming a union this week, um, who rely on a fully functioning board. But the staffing levels have drastically reduced over the last fifteen years, and processing times for cases pertaining to unfair labor practices has lengthened quite dramatically. These cases are mostly brought forth by workers whose rights may have been violated, and they deserve attention. So the, this question is for each of you. Do you think that the NLRB needs increased funding for staff to protect workers, enforce labor laws, and fully do its job? Let's start with uh, Mr. Prouty.

Well, thank you for the question, Senator. Um, the budget which is before Congress now for next year will allow us to continue our functions. Uh, if Congress were to choose to increase that budget, then we would be able to, um, even better and f- and improve those functions. I I wanna point out that part of the problem with the part of the issue with the backlog, is that we've seen a tremendous uptick in, um, in the number of cases that have been filed, both mostly because of increased union organizing. And so, um, the regions, as you said, have been, um, and as i i said to senator mckow mckowski uh the staffs have been cut um not through cut cut cuts but through attrition and layoffs and hiring is going on now and we're hoping

and i i i will get to that in a moment mr. macy your comments

uh thank you senator i appreciate your concern i haven't been at the agency of confirm that that's certainly something i want to analyze and to look at uh and but uh i'm sorry thank you

ok I I just wanna get through a number of questions. Will you commit here today that you will request sufficient funding and any additional authorities to hire and retain sufficient staff for the caseload? Um, you know, uh uh uh I'm also an appropriator, not just a member of the health committee, uh, and I look at, uh, these, uh, issues carefully. So, will you commit here today that you'll request sufficient funding and any additional authority to hire and retain sufficient staff. Mister Prouty?

Senator, uh, uh, I'm, uh, one of potentially five board members, and so I can't speak for the whole board. We would come to that decision along with the general counsel and come to you to request more money. I think both the chairman and and the general counsel last week in a hearing indicated that wou- they would appreciate more money for the NLRB.

And Mister Macy.

Thank you, Senator, as you as you proposed the question, I I would support that. We're And and we would work within what Congress believed w was appropriate.

Thank you. And and more specifically, uh, will you commit to requesting sufficient funds to keep NLRB regional offices open and accessible to the public? Mister Prouty.

I will commit to that again within the context of of my role as one of five.

Mister.

And I would uh I would definitely commit to working with Congress and analyzing the most efficient way to provide those offices and quite frankly we're doing that across the other agencies as well i think that's an important goal

ok now i i wanna bring up the issues of nlrb independence um mister proudy mister macy president trump has shown repeatedly that he is willing to wield his influence on employees of agencies that have historically been independent including firing members of the national labor relations It's essentially, it's essential to me to know if you will exercise independent judgment in this role. I have additional yes or no questions for both of you. Um, are you prepared to issue a ruling the president disagrees with, Mister Prouty?