Summary
- Tim Scott advanced Christopher Phelan and John Cruz nominations to full Senate on 13-11 votes after brief closed session discussion.
- Brian Johnson (Nominee to be Director, Consumer Financial Protection Bureau) pledged to protect consumers, ensure accountability, and modernize operations if confirmed.
- Elizabeth Warren pressed Johnson to notify Congress about White House interference in enforcement actions, but Johnson declined to commit immediately.
- Tim Scott praised nominees as qualified leaders to lower costs, while Elizabeth Warren condemned corruption and opposed Johnson's CFPB nomination.
- Phelan and Cruz nominations head to full Senate, while three committee nominees face written questions due July 31 for consideration.
Morning digest
Get hearings like this in your inbox
Transcript
Good morning. I call this executive session to order. Today we will consider the nominations of Doctor Christopher Phelan, Mister John Cruz. I wanna thank each nominee for their willingness to serve our country and for appearing before this committee. At our hearing, we heard about their experience, their judgment, their commitment to the American people. President Trump was elected to bring down costs. restore accountability, and put common sense back at the center of government. To do to do that, he needs qualified leaders in place. Doctor Phelan understands that economic policy is not an ec- academic exercise. It affects jobs, wages, investment, growth, and whether families in South Carolina and around the country will have a fair shot at opportunity. Mister Cruz understands the importance of a safe, sound, and competitive credit union system. Credit unions help families, workers, and small businesses save, borrow, grow, and handle the unexpected costs that life throws their way. They should be judged on their qualifications, experience, and commitment to serving the American people. I urge my colleagues to support these qualified nominees, and I look forward to moving them forward. Senator Warren.
Sure. Thank you, Mister Chairman, and before I get into my opening, I wanna raise a concern that you and I had a chance to discuss last night. We have both been briefed on the FBI background investigations for the nominees that we are scheduled to vote on this morning and I appreciate you're always talking these issues through even sometimes very late at night. I'm not gonna get into the details given the limitations and the rules on what can be discussed in public session. But the briefing left me with some significant questions that have not yet been answered. We should put off this mark-up until we have confidence that the FBI has run down all the answers. All of our colleagues on this committee, Democrats and Republicans, have a right to be fully up to speed, fully informed on these issues before being asked to vote for or against nominees. We have a job to do here. The Constitution gives us the power of advice and consent. Because we are limited in what we can say publicly, Mister Chairman, I move that we go to closed session.
Is there a second?
There's a second.
At this time, we will ask the room to be cleared. and then and then you're brought back into open session to do the vote and read the session so session the clerk will call the roll ok
this is all my motion right
yes well this is again
to go in close session this is my motion to go in close session so if we wanna have a conversation the voting shares
i actually we're part of the moving session made it into separate sessions open session and then we can have a vote
if we don't wanna have a conversation then it's Yeah.
We have to get back in open session before we vote on her vote.
Yeah, we now you can vote should be open session and then we vote on her vote.
OK. So this will be a vote on her open session, OK.
Yes, yes, yes.
So it's now it's time just for clarity's sake, watching CCM's face over there, she's like, what? Um For clarity's sake, we are now back in open session. We are now gonna have a vote to go back into closed session to discuss the underlying issue.
The chairman?
No. Mister Crapo. No, my vote. No, my proxy. Yes sir. Wait, no. No. Mister Rounds. Well done. Now step down. Mister Tillis. No. Mister Kennedy. Yes. So that's a a yes. Right. Who's first? He needs a yes. Yes. Mister Haggerty. Haggerty's not. Miss Lemus. No. This is Britt. Mister Ricketts. No. Mister Banks. No. Mister Kramer. No. Mister Moreno. No. Mister McCormick. No. Miss Warren.
Yes.
Mister Reed. Yes. Mister Warner.
Yes, I'm proxy.
Mister Van Halen.
Yes, I'm proxy.
Miss Cortez Masto. Yes. Miss Smith. Yes, my proxy. Mister Warnock. Yes, my proxy. Mister Kim. Yes. Mister Gallego. Yes, my proxy. Miss Bl Rochester. Yes. Miss Holstelbrooks. Yes, my proxy.
mister round not voting and this is brett
not present
point of clarification before you call it vote my understanding is in order to have a prevailing vote you must be present the majority has to be present You can't win a vote by proxy.
That holds for matters voted out of committee, such as nominees or legislation, but not for the parties.
Not internally? Good. Thank you.
But, Mister Chairman, just a, can i ask a point of order?
Certainly.
Uh, this was a decision that was made five minutes ago. I'm just curious how all these proxies came in. You're gonna have both?
I have a proxy with my members.
So, so they knew there was gonna be a vote?
My members have given me their proxy through what happens this morning.
For anything?
Well.
i just ask your point of order
i have specific proxies thank you
i have specific proxies yes
ok
have they been shared with the clerk
have you shared with the clerk
the vote
have they been they have been shared with the clerk
yes
the proxies
yes
good job
the vote is twelve eyes and ten nails three
we will go back into a executive session closed session so unfortunately we'll see you in few minutes And talk.
OK, so I'm gonna go down and make my opening.
Yep.
Yep. We call this executive session back to order. And we will first vote on the nomination of Doctor Christopher Phelan. I move to a roll call vote on Doctor Christopher Phelan to be the Chairman of the Co- Council of Economic Advisors. The Clerk will call the roll.
Thank you. Thank you.
they no they have four
have you have one yes
yes no no no we we need to put that together
is it yes
we have two cards yeah we could do a conference can we call a team call it call the call the roll okay just a second
let's call the roll
chairman
aye mister crapo
aye
mister rounds
aye
mister tillis
aye
mister kennedy
aye
mister hagerty
hagerty is aye
miss lemus
aye
mrs. brett
aye by proxy
mister rickets
aye
mister banks
aye um
mister kramer
aye
mister moreno
aye
Mister McCormick.
Aye.
Miss Warren.
No.
Mister Reed.
No.
Mister Warner.
No, by proxy.
Mister Van Hollen.
No, by proxy.
Miss Cortez Masto.
No.
Miss Smith.
No, by proxy.
Mister Warnock.
No, by proxy.
Mister Kim.
No.
Mister Gallego.
No, by proxy.
Miss Blunche- uh Rochester. Miss Alcibrooks.
No, by proxy.
I have thirteen ayes, eleven nays.
Thank you. The ayes have it. The nomination is hereby ordered to be reported favorably to the full Senate. Next, we will consider Doctor, Mister John Cruz. I move to a roll call vote on Mister John Cruz to be a member of the National Credit Union Associ Administration Board. The clerk will call the roll.
the chairman
aye
mister crapo
aye
mister rounds
aye excuse me aye
mister tillis
aye
mister kennedy
aye
mister hagerty miss lemus missus brit
brit
aye by proxy
Mister Ricketts.
Aye.
Mister Banks.
Is that my phone? It is.
Mister Kramer.
Aye.
Mister Moreno.
Aye.
Mister McCormick. Miss Warren.
No.
Mister Reed.
No.
Mister Warner.
No, by proxy.
Mister Van Hollen.
No, by proxy.
Miss Cortez Masto.
No.
Miss Smith.
No, by proxy.
Mister Warnock.
No, by proxy.
Mister Kim.
No.
Mister Gallego.
No, by proxy.
Miss Blount Rochester.
No. No.
Miss Alsabrooks.
No, by proxy.
I have thirteen ayes, eleven nays.
Yeah, I just added the nominations here by order to be reported favorably to the full Senate. Are there any members that would like to make any statements? Without further statements, the executive session is now adjourned. We will now turn to the hearing of the nominations of Miss Abby Warren for Assistant Secretary of Export Administration at the Bureau of Industry and Security at the Department of Commerce Mister Irving Dennis for Chief Financial Officer of the Department of Housing and Urban Development, and Mister Brian Johnson for director of the consumer financial protection bureau finance ideas we'll wait for the nominees come on in
thank you
What do we do? That's not a cruise cabin, you can't fool me.
Yeah. Alright. We were also gonna have a few senators actually introduce our witnesses, but obviously with this delay they will not be here. Thank you for standing. Will you please, uh, I will now swear in the nominees, will you please stand and raise your right hand? Do you swear or affirm that the testimony that you're about to give Here's the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth to help you God. Do you agree to appear and testify before any duly constituted committee of the Senate? You may sit down. Your written statement will be made part of the record in its entirety. Please keep your oral comments to five minutes. Today, the committee will welcome these three nominees for important roles that they will play. I've already talked about each of the nominees and the roles that they will play. I wanna thank each of you for your willingness to serve our country. And I welcome your families as well. And I will say, uh, we apologize for the delay. That is unusual, unexpected, but important. The positions before us span different agencies, but each carries a significant responsibility, making government work for the American people. In South Carolina and across the country, families want a government that respects their hard-earned tax dollars, protects our national security, and expands opportunity. They deserve experienced leaders who will follow the law, remain accountable to Congress, and remember whom they work for. Each of the nominees before us today brings a strong record of leadership and deep experience in the agency or policy area they have been nominated to serve. That experience matters. They have demonstrated that they are dedicated to the missions of their agencies, the limits of government power, and the duty that comes with public service. Mister Dennis has confirmed as HUD's CFO, you will be responsible for safeguarding billions of taxpayer dollars and strengthening the programs families rely on. Every dollar misused is a dollar that cannot help a family access safe, and affordable housing. Miss Warren, export controls are among our most important tools for keeping sensitive American technology out of the hands of our adversaries, and how we ensure the global AI race is won here at home in the United States, and not by China. If confirmed as Assistant Secretary for Export Administration, your decisions will impact our national security, but also affect small business the health of our technology sector, and American competitiveness. We must keep sensitive technology away from our enemies while making sure America continues to lead, innovate, and compete. Mister Johnson, you have been nominated to lead the CFPB at an important moment for the agency. If confirmed, you will be responsible for protecting consumers while keeping the bureau focused on its mission and within the law. Families and businesses deserve clear rules, fair treatment, and access to affordable financial products. The standard for all three nominees is simple. Commitment to the mission, serve the American people, and make government work better for families. At the heart of this committee's work is a belief that every American deserves a fair shot at building a better life. That requires leaders who understand that government decisions affect paychecks, homes, small businesses, communities, and the country our children will one day inherit. I look forward to hearing from each of you today and working with my colleagues to move these qualified nominees forward.
introduce.
Sure, absolutely, of course.
Senator, Senator, you wanna introduce one of our nominees and then we'll hear from the ranking member.
I'd I would love to and thank you, Senator Warren,
Yeah.
for uh for this Chairman Scott and Ranking Member Warren, uh and members of this committee, I'm very pleased to be here this morning. Thank you all for what you do to promote a common sense uh regulatory strategy and a resilient financial sector in our country. As you may know, I months served as a member of the house where I chaired the financial institutions and consumer credit, subcommittee of the Financial Services Committee. And this is how I first came to know and work with our nominee, Brian Johnson. Brian is a native of Columbus, Ohio, but we won't hold that against him. He he's close to West Virginia, uh, as we know, a neighbor of our state. He graduated with an undergraduate degree from the University of Virginia in Economics and a law degree also from that fine institution the University of Virginia, School of Law. He began his employment with the Financial Services Committee in twenty twelve, where I was. He worked closely with me and my team to advance common sense legislation that addressed the regulatory burdens facing our community and our community financial institution and ensure greater accountability within our financial regulatory agencies. I knew Brian then as a diligent and thoughtful staff member, as someone who was devoted to serving the public with integrity, and I saw firsthand his thoughtful approach to complex, and they are complex, consumer finance policy issues. Brian has since moved on to other roles, including as Deputy Director of the CFPB. He brings he brings strong technical expertise as well as practical understanding of how financial policy decisions under our affect our families, our consumers, and small businesses around our country. I do not doubt that he has the experience and judgment to serve as the CFPB's next director, and President Trump has made an excellent choice. Uh, he will ensure the agency sticks to its original charter. not go beyond that, as we have stated recently and reaffirmed through the Working Families Tax Cut Act that was passed last year. If the Senate confirms him, and I hope that we will, I am confident that Brian will faithfully discharge his responsibilities for the benefit of the American consumer and our financial markets. Congratulations on your nomination and thank you both very much.
Thank you, Senator. We'll hear from our ranking member, Senator Warren.
Uh, thank you, Mister Chairman. President Trump's second term has been a failure. by pretty much every account. First, the president has failed to meet his number one promise to lower costs on day one. That was his promise. Second, Donald Trump is the most corrupt president in history. He is making billions of dollars on his own shady crypto deals. Decision after decision seems designed to enrich the president, his family or his Wall Street buddies, sometimes all three. And third, President Trump seems to be selling pardons for white-collar criminals who make the right donations. Now, Trump's government is running up costs for middle-class families and refusing to help those families when they get cheated. And today, the committee has a full panel of nominees who will be expected to implement and defend President Donald Trump's willingness to turn his back on Americans' financial troubles. We have Abby Warren, who's already been at the Commerce Department for over a year as the Trump administration has rolled back export controls on advanced AI chips and undermined our national security and Irv Dennis who's been acting CFO at HUD and apparently thinks he deserves the role permanently while the agency continues to illegally freeze federal housing funds but I want to focus in particular on Brian Johnson. trump's nominee to be the director of the c f b this is the only government agency that exists to look out for hardworking families who get cheated on financial products it's only mission is to help out families that are getting ripped off by their credit card company unfairly charged by their banks or scammed by payday lenders last week we had the acting c f p b head russ voeck testifying right here before our committee. And Mister Vo, backed up by President Trump, spent eighteen months trying to kill the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau. He failed. Even so, he has done plenty of damage, taking the cop off the beat and costing American families over twenty-six billion dollars. That is money directly out of the pockets of hard-working americans and when he couldn't kill the agency director vote decided to turn it upside down to make it work for the scammers and the tricksters and anyone else willing to pay trump and his buddies the financial industry the big banks the tech firms and their wealthy ceos have lined up making millions of dollars in campaign contributions and sucking up to trump personally with shady donations to his ballroom and his library and his other vanity projects. The payoff? Well, the fines are withdrawn, the investigations are closed, and settlements are reduced to the lightest possible slap on the wrist. It's corruption, plain and simple, and it's costing the American people billions of dollars. And that brings us to Mister Johnson. Mister Johnson brings his own unique baggage to this job. He has made a career out of spinning through the revolving door, shifting in and out of government jobs with stops as a well-paid hired gun for the big banks and financial firms in between. Mister Johnson has been at capital one since twenty twenty four. And wouldn't you know it, in twenty twenty five, the CFPB dropped a two billion dollar enforcement action against Capital One. How convenient. Oh, and how profitable for Capital One. At a minimum, Mister Johnson owes us answers on what role he played in getting that case dropped. But more importantly, Mister Johnson has to explain to the American people how is it that they're supposed to believe that after collecting big paychecks, from giant credit card and other financial companies, he will suddenly be sticking up for middle class families. But for everyone who already had doubts about Mr. Johnson, acting director Vogt testified last week and told us exactly why he should not be confirmed. The most damning thing about Mr. Johnson's nomination is that he has gotten a rousing stamp of approval from the outgoing director, Russ Vogt, who spent a year and a half trying to kill the agency and who now says Mister Johnson will quote " do a great job" running it, you know, running it into the ground. Mister Chairman, the American people need watch dogs, not lap dogs, at the CFPB. If Mister Johnson is confirmed, I am concerned that he will continue this cycle of corruption that is costing the American people billions of dollars. And that's why I believe it would be a mistake to move forward with his nomination. Thank you.
Yes, ma'am. We have Senator Ted Cruz here to introduce Miss Abby Warren.
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, it's a privilege to be with the members of the committee this morning. Uh, I'm honored to have the opportunity to introduce Abby Warren, President Trump's nominee to serve as Assistant Secretary for the Department of Commerce. Abby previously served as my chief counsel for oversight and investigations on the Senate Commerce Committee, where she led our investigations and oversight efforts with professionalism, integrity, and dedication. During her time on the committee, she helped draft critical legislation, such as the Terms Act, which would require on-line service providers to admit their political biases, allowing consumers to make more form decisions about where they choose to do business. She also spearheaded our efforts to promote good and honest governance at the Department of Commerce on behalf of the American taxpayer. Simply put, Abby helped advance common sense, conservative solutions on some of the nation's most pressing technology and communications issues. President Trump and the American people would be fortunate to have someone of Abby's caliber serving in this administration. As an Assistant Secretary for the Commerce Department, Abby will play an integral role in developing U S export control policy to ensure that America can compete with China. She will work closely with federal agencies, our allies, and administration leaders to strengthen our national security while enhancing America's technological and economic competitiveness. America is in a race with China. on who will lead in artificial intelligence. Having the right people in positions of leadership gives our country an advantage. I have consistently said that our technology and software should reflect the American values of free speech, individual liberty, and free enterprise. Abby is the right person to fight for these values. Abby's other qualifications show that she is exceptionally well-suited for this role. In addition to her work on the committee, she currently serves as the Commerce Department's Deputy General Counsel for Artificial Intelligence and Technology. She also worked on special counsel teams at the Senate Judiciary Committee for the confirmations of Brett Kavanaugh and Amy Coney Barrett to the US Supreme Court. Before coming to The Hill, Abby worked as an associate at Kirkland and Ellis, where she focused on complex commercial litigation and clerked for Ju- Judge Elizabeth Branch on the US Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit. I am confident that Abby will serve President Trump, Secretary Lutnik, and the American people well as she works to strengthen American innovation, grow our economy, and drive our technological inva- advancement. Our nation will be better for it, and I would encourage the members of this committee, uh, to confirm her swiftly. Thank you.
Senator Cruz, it sounds like I should have hired Abby first.
Well, you are now.
Thank you, Mr. Cruz. Thank you for taking the time to come over and introduce one of your own. At this point, we will start our five minutes with Mister Mister Dennis.
Thank you, Chairman Scott, Ranking Member Warren. and distinguished members of the committee for the opportunity to appear before you today as President Trump's nominee to serve as the Chief Financial Officer of the Department of Housing and Urban Development. I am deeply honored to have been nominated by President Trump to serve as the Chief Financial Officer of HUD, and grateful for the confidence that both the President and Secretary Scott Turner placed in me. Having previously served as HUD's Chief Financial Officer during the first Trump administration, I am honored by the opportunity to return and continue serving the American people. I would also like to thank my family for their unwavering support throughout the nomination process and throughout my career. As a certified public accountant, I have dedicated my professional life to financial stewardship, accountability, and protecting stake stakeholder dollars from fraud, waste and abuse. As someone who grew up with very humble beginnings in the small town of Belvedere, New Jersey, I do not take this opportunity for granted. My hometown is a blue-collar farming community that instilled in me a strong work ethic and an appreciation for public service. My father emphasized the importance of hard work from an early age. When I was twelve years old, my brother and I worked on a local produce farm, waking before sunrise to harvest crops. I also worked at a local hot dog stand and a local factory to pay for my college education. Those experiences taught me discipline, responsibility, and the value of earning and savings for the future. I attended Montclair State University as a first generation college graduate and earned a degree in accounting. I remained actively involved in the university through guest lecturing and service on the advisory board of its business school. Following graduation, I joined Ernst and Young, one of the big four auditing firms, where I became a CPA and spent nearly forty years building a career in public accounting. I ultimately retired as a global client service partner. During that time, I served as a coordinating audit partner for several Fortune five hundred companies, an advised board of directors, audit committees and senior executives on corporate governance, financial reporting, internal controls, business transformation initiatives, and mergers and acquisitions. After retiring from Ernst and Young, I sought an opportunity to apply my professional experience to public service. I was honored to be nominated and confirmed as HUD's Chief Financial Officer during Trump's first administration under S- Secretary Ben Carson. When I arrived at HUD in two thousand and eighteen, the department faced significant financial management challenges. HUD's financial infrastructure included multiple material weaknesses, multiple significant deficiencies, and adverse audit results. Meaningful improvements were needed across governance, people, process, internal controls, and information technology systems. Working alongside Secretary Ben Carson and a dedicated team of public service, We focused on transforming HUD's financial management and technology operations. Through those efforts, HUD eliminated most of its material weaknesses, we strengthened the internal controls, and in twenty twenty we achieved the first clean audit opinion in eight years. Building upon that progress, HUD is continuing to modernize its financial operations. One of my key priorities include consolidating and modernizing departments, financial and grants management systems, improving efficiency, enhancing customer service, and strengthening financial oversight and accountability. We refer to this initiative as HUD's Unified Grant System, or HUGS for short. HUGS includes implementing stronger processes to improve transparency and accountability among grantees and subgrantees, to track how taxpayer dollars are being spent at the sub-recipient level. Also, we are working closely with HUD programs to address long-standing improper payment challenges through comprehensive business process improvements. If confirmed, I will work diligently to ensure that HUD remains a responsible store of taxpayer resources and continue to strengthen its financial management practices. I am committed to promoting transparency, accountability, operational excellence, and effective support of HUD's missions on behalf of the American people. Thank you, Chairman Scott, Ranking Member Warren, and distinguished members of this committee for your consideration of my nomination.
Uh, thank you. I now recognize Senator from Nevada for questions.
Oh, no. We have to finish the other.
Oh. Oh, I thought we we went this way.
Uh, no.
We went that way. Interesting. We're in the southern hemisphere. All right. Recognize. This is Warren for your comments.
Uh, thank you, Chairman Scott, Ranking Member Warren, and the members of this committee, for the opportunity to appear before you today as President Trump's nominee. uh to serve as the Assistant Secretary for Export Administration at the Bureau of Industry and Security. I would like to begin by thanking President Trump for nominating me, and Secretary Lutnik and Undersecretary Kessler for their support and confidence. I'm extremely grateful to my former boss, Senator Cruz, for his introduction and kind words. And I'd also like to thank my family, friends and colleagues who are here with me today, including my parents, Paul and Donna, who drove up from Marietta, Georgia, my hometown. and my husband, Patrick. He is the most wonderful partner and his encouragement and support have made my public service possible. Throughout my career, I have had the privilege of serving in all three branches of federal government. I have worked in the United States Senate, the Federal Judiciary, and the Executive Branch, where I currently serve as the Deputy General Counsel for AI and Technology at the Department of Commerce. Those experiences have provided me with a deep appreciation for our constitutional system, the importance of the rule of law, and the responsibility entrusted to public servants. Over the past two years, I have worked across the Commerce Department and with inter-agency partners throughout the federal government to navigate complex legal questions and advance the department's priorities. Those experiences have prepared me to lead a large organization, manage complex inter-agency processes, and deliver results in support of the department's national security and economic missions. The Bureau of Industry and Security plays a vital role in protecting the national security, economic security, and unmatched technological achievement and scientific innovation of the United States. Export controls are among the most important tools available to ensure that America's most sensitive technologies, products and expertise do not contribute to the military modernization or strategic ambitions of our adversaries. At the same time, BIS helps preserve the conditions that prevent the theft of American intellectual property and allow American companies, researchers, and innovators to remain the global leaders in developing the technologies that will shape the future. The evolving landscape presents significant opportunities for BIS to demonstrate its leadership. and expand its vital impact. Emerging technologies are developing at an unprecedented speed, supply chains are increasingly global, and strategic competitors are devoting substantial resources to acquiring advanced technologies with military and intelligence applications. Meeting these challenges requires a regulatory system that is effective, adaptable, and grounded in close coordination with our allies and partners. If confirmed, I will faithfully execute the laws. work to ensure that BIS's export controls are effective and enforceable, and collaborate closely with Congress, our international partners and stakeholders across the government and industry to advance US national security interests. I am proud of my service at the Department of Commerce and would be honored to continue serving at the American people in this new capacity, if I am confirmed. Thank you for your consideration of my nomination, and I look forward to your questions.
Thank you, Mrs. Mrs. Warren. Uh, Mr. Johnson, you're recognized.
Chairman Scott, Ranking Member Warren, and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. I'm also grateful to Senator Capito for her kind introduction of me this morning. I'm very grateful to President Trump for nominating me for the position of Director of the CFPB. And I'm eager to help him advance his pro-growth agenda, achieve accountability in government, and promote access, innovation and competition in the financial marketplace. My wife Kate is here with me this morning. I'm uh forever grateful to her for her steadfast support uh and partnership, and for her devotion to our two young children. I'm also joined here today by my father, Ken, and my stepmother, Nancy. I'm deeply thankful to them and to my sister, Allison, for their love. and support. I also know that my late mother, Lynn, watches over me. The great majority of my professional career has been devoted to public service. I've spent the last fourteen years substantially focused on the intersection of consumer finance and federal law. I began my career as a junior senate staffer for Senator John Keil. I later spent over five years working for the House Financial Services Committee, where I focused on consumer credit, and financial institutions issues under the leadership of Chairman Jeb Henzerling. I continued my public service at the CFPB, including as its Deputy Director, where I helped shape the agency's strategy and rulemaking, enforcement, and supervisory activities. I also have experience in the private sector where I've helped a variety of institutions enhance their compliance with federal consumer financial law. My experience is And these various roles have deepened my conviction that consumer protection is not a zero-sum game. Where the CFPB writes clear and durable rules of the road, obeys its own statutory bounds, justly enforces the law, and enables consumers to make their own financial decisions, both consumers and market participants win. To the contrary, where the CFPB tries to remake markets according to an ideological agenda, It deprives consumers of choice, restricts their access to financial products and services, and drives up costs for providers, which are ultimately borne by customers and investors. If confirmed, I will have three priorities. Protecting consumers, especially those who are vulnerable to fraud and scams. Promoting accountability by ensuring CFPB acts prudently and within its statutory limits. and modernizing CFPB operations. And if confirmed, I pledge to you that I will faithfully execute the law as written. Thank you for your consideration. I look forward to your questions and the opportunity to work with each of you and your staff to achieve our shared goal of improving the financial lives of Americans across this great nation. Thank you.
I now recognize Senator Cortes Masto for her questions.
Chairman. Uh, to the nominees, congratulations on your nominations. Welcome to all the family members. I appreciate you all being here and the patience this morning. Um, Mr. Dennis, let me start with you. I have heard from numerous Nevads about delays in the receipt of HUD funds. And and let me talk a little bit about that. The Nevada Homeless Alliance in Nev uh in Nevada has yet to receive its fiscal year twenty twenty-five HUD continuum of care grant agreement. Um They need nearly a million dollars in funding to help people at risk of experiencing homelessness. The grant period, this new grant period begins on August first, twenty twenty six, and they still lack an executed grant agreement. If you're appropriated, will you do all you can to get HUD to execute on these grant agreements?
Yeah, thank you.
Yeah, thank you. Um, yeah, you know, the the grant agreements, its execution and the the uh is is a program decision and a program o- oversight. The the office of the Chief Financial Officer is responsible for making sure the funds are available and uh when appropriated, and then also make sure they're accounted for properly once they're dispersed, which is our primary obligation. Um, we do not control the timing of the the NOFAs, the Notice of Finance of Availability. Uh, we do not control the timing of the grant agreements. Uh, that's a program decision. So, those decisions are made at their program level. Our responsibility is to make sure that they're
So when you say the program level, who at the program level is making that decision?
The assistant secretaries of each of the individual programs.
Um, is it part of your job to also ensure that the program assistant secretary, whoever's managing that program follows the law?
Yeah, the programs will do all, uh, that's the program's responsibility.
Correct. But you you ensure that they follow the law. I mean, if the money's been appropriated, it's to i- it's earmarked, it's already been agreed to, and it's supposed to go out, you don't have any obligation.
Yeah, our our responsibility in the Chief Financial Officer's office is to make sure that the funds are available and appropriated and then accounted for once they are dispersed.
You have no other obligation in the disbursement. So for instance, um the housing trust funds that are awarded to s- states uh this month, you have no obligation to insure that they are dispersed to those states?
Our responsibility is to make sure they're properly accounted for once they're dispersed.
Explain that to me. They're properly accounted for. What does that mean? That that the states properly account for them?
So when money we No, not the state, HUD, the federal government.
OK. So your your job is just to make sure the money's in the account. You don't have any obligation to insure that that money that's in the account that is uh been um earmarked for certain specific programs gets out.
Yeah, the programs are responsible for issuing the NOFA's, executing the grant agreement, and then the the the the disbursement of funds, we're responsible to make sure once the funds are appropriated, they're properly allocated in the accounts. And then once they're dispersed, we make sure that they're properly accounted for and reported. Everything you're referring to as a program responsibility.
And that's the Deputy Secretary making that decision.
The Assistant Secretary.
Assistant Secretary.
Yes.
Alright, thank you. Miss Warren, um, uh, many of my colleagues and I have been deeply concerned that loosening export controls on our nation's most advanced semiconductors um, it will be a major contributor to China's AI progress and reduce America's advantages in this space. That's why I've worked with my colleagues in a bipartisan way to advance legislation like the AI Overwatch Act and the Chip Security Act. Um, I'm curious, you talked a little bit about this, but will you share more about your views on the use of export controls to prevent our most advanced semiconductor technology from flowing to China?
Thank you, Senator, for the question. So, when I think about my philosophy here, as an attorney I go back to the statute. And ECHR, I think, outlines how we should be approaching these issues. It says, you know, we need to put national security controls in place for, uh, excuse me, export controls in place when there are significant national security concerns, while also recognizing, before we do so, what the economic impact of those controls are. Um, so that's something I think we need to be monitoring really carefully. And BIS has staff that actually is constantly monitoring the new
Thank you.
Thank you.
Mister Johnson, um, when you're employed as the Deputy Director at the Consumer Bureau, um, I was one of many critical of the decision to uh halt proactive compliance examination of lenders. under the Military Lending Act. I will note that uh during your tenure there, um the CFPB did file nine cases against companies that targeted service members, veterans, and surviving spouses. Um, let me ask you this. Uh, I am concerned that um right now the Office of Service Member Affairs has been eliminated. Would you commit to restoring it?
Senator, that office is against by statute. Um, I'll happy to take a look if I'm confirmed and ensure that it's fulfilling uh its duties.
Would you let me know if it's not? Would you let us know if it needs staff uh or uh funding to make sure it continues its statutorily obligated duties?
I will do so, Senator.
Thank you. I know my time is up. Thank you.
Thank you. So uh, Mister Dennis, I'll start with you, since we're going from one side to the other. And uh, you you've uh helped lead an effort at HUD towards uh having a clean audit opinion, how how is that going, how much more work do you think you needed to do there?
Well, we we got to a clean audit opinion under the first Trump administration. As our as your as our as I mentioned when I arrived, there's all kinds of material weaknesses and we had a disclaimed audit opinion, which means they couldn't opine on it. And we were able to put strong financial controls in place. Um, and we got our first clean audit opinion in eight years in twenty twenty. Uh, when I came back under forty seven, we got another disclaimer. primarily because of some of the financial controls that i put in place on forty five deteriorated under the prior administration as an example we had a controllership function that i put in place that was very helpful to get a clean audit opinion we had training we had internal control infrastructure testing that went on those functions went away which resulted in a disclaimer uh in our my first year here we got those controls back in place uh we've got those functions filled and we're working very closely with the programs where a lot of the deterioration happened So I'm I'm uh hopeful that we'll be right where we needed to be and get a clean audit opinion this year. But the audit process is ongoing. Uh, I'm really focused right now on uh putting in a sub-recipient database. Uh, we send out about seventy seven billion dollars a year to our grantees. We don't know how the grantees spend that money. So what I'm putting in is uh using AI and technology to get information for every check that's got from the grantee to the vendor. I want the invoice or the contract that supports that vendor. We'll get that using AI. We'll convert that information into a data lake and we'll run that data lake and measure it against a structured unstructured and open-source data, to see if there's any conflicts, make sure the dollars are being spent as intended, and also in compliance with the grant agreements. So we're really excited about that. We've piloted the program with great success with, uh, ten grantees, and we're getting to we're hopeful that we'll roll that out this year and it'll it'll substantially enhance, uh, the the control environment, but more importantly how the funds are being spent to make sure they're being spent without fraud, waste and abuse.
And and and obviously you, the scale of the problem is pretty enormous. Uh, the reports that I've seen show almost twenty-six percent improper payment rates. I think the number that I have in front of me, five point eight billion dollars, in fraud, I mean that's uh, almost infallible number, I mean five point eight billion dollars. in fraud is nuts.
Yeah, so that's the for the first time ever we analyzed all of our voucher payments for fiscal twenty four the when I came in we did that right away and we found a lot of, uh, uh, payments that were questionable. It doesn't mean they were fraud, it means they needed to do a little bit of homework. And a lot of those payments were a combination of non-compliance with SAM dot gov, uh, be paying paying deceased people, non-conforming social security numbers, and then payments that were outside the norm market value in individual states and or geographical areas. Uh, we have that under control. We're putting processes in place to make sure,
So.
uh, the the payments are to, uh, SAM dot gov compliance. And we'll we'll we'll have good reporting and positive reporting on that in our agency financial report this year. I'm very excited about the progress made in that as well.
Yes, perfect. So so in a couple of years you're confirmed you're in a job, uh, your target of zero. Makes sense. No fraud. We shouldn't send taxpayer money.
Yeah, my uh
Bernice, would you agree on that?
My extreme.
The goal, the goal should be zero.
Yeah.
I think we should just, I'm gonna, I'm gonna agree for you that the goal is zero, because any other answer will not be processed by my by my brain.
Goal is zero.
Uh, there you go. Uh, Mr. Warren, uh, sometimes obviously we talk about NVIDIA and the chips and the most advanced semiconductors, but sometimes like blocking and tackling, uh, old school technology, like just plain old memory chips. become a problem. And there is currently a massive memory chip issue. What are your feelings on that? Do you think we should be looking at making certain that we fill US demand first, before we start shipping memory outside the country?
I don't know if it's mutually exclusive. So I think President Trump and when I've been, since I've been at the Department of Commerce has really been focusing on making sure we're getting more memory chip built out here. So I've been involved with the chips programs efforts. There, you know, for example, Micron's facility that they're, that they're building, and,
Yeah.
and that's been excellent. Um.
But, but until that comes online, uh, we are gonna see, face this shortage. And I guess I would just, because uh, I'm, I'm short of time, I just want your commitment, please pay attention to that as well.
Absolutely.
Alright, thank you. And, uh, Mister Johnson, uh, the, you, you've been at the CFPB, uh, something that's near and dear to my heart is obviously the auto business. Uh, there's a company called Carvana. I would just like your commitment to, uh, work with me on that. Uh, they have a, uh, an approval rating of credit for their customers of nearly one hundred percent. Uh, having been in the car business for a long time, that doesn't exist. There's no scenario which you approve a hundred percent of your clients. So I would just want you to work with me to see what's going on, what they're doing. And I, I personally believe the need to be investigated. Want your commitment. Tell me to do that.
Senator, if confirmed, I'd be happy to take a look.
Thank you. Now, recognize the ranking member.
Uh, thank you. Um, in January, twenty twenty five, the CFPB sued capital one, uh, which is your current employer, Mister Johnson. Uh, and it was sued for cheating its customers out of more than two billion dollars in interest payments on their savings accounts. But about a month after President Trump was sworn in and after Capital One donated a cool one million dollars to his inauguration, Acting Director Vogt dropped the case against Capital One. This is one of forty-two enforcement actions and investigations the CFPB has dropped against big banks and giant corporations since Donald Trump took office. Now, when he was here last week, I asked director of vote how many of those forty-two cases against companies that we know donated to President Trump. And he said he didn't know how many had donated to President Trump. I said we know at least some of them, Capital One, Apple, Bank of America, JP Morgan, Toyota, Walmart, Meta. They donate and they get actions from CFPB against them dropped. And who knows if there are more? But what I do know is that we need to clean this corruption up. So, Mister Johnson, will you commit to notifying Congress and the Inspector General immediately if the White House contacts you about an enforcement action against a Trump family, company, or a big donor? that cheated families.
Senator, when I served at CFPB, that never happened to my knowledge and I don't anticipate that it would.
That's not my question. My question is, if it does, will you notify Congress and will you notify the Inspector General? Look, there's obviously a problem here. I'm looking for a way to clean it up. You're the guy in the seat who can do this. Will you agree to notify us if you get a call about a political donor or member of the Trump family who is asking about an ongoing investigation.
Senator, with respect, I um dispute the premise of the question.
Well, I I don't care whether you like the premise.
I don't anticipate that happening.
I have given you a set of facts that are not made up. It's happening right now. I want your commitment that if it happens on your watch, you'll pick up the phone and call us. Our job is oversight. That's not so hard. Are you willing to do that?
Senator, I'm not gonna engage in a hypothetical.
OK, so the answer is no. You will not try to hose out the corruption.
I don't need to speak with a Japanese.
Look, the CFPB is currently being used as an arm of President Trump's ongoing corruption, including his corporate pardon machine. And your answer indicates you're just gonna keep that machine humming. So let me ask you about President Trump's plan to kill off the CFPB. Acting Director Vogt tried to fire ninety percent of the staff. A court told him he can't do that on his own. So now he's proposing to fire half the staff, including almost three hundred examiners. Now those are the financial cops whose job it is to insure that the banks and the lenders are following the law in treating customers fairly. Mister Johnson is going from three hundred and fifty examiners down to seventy seven examiners, make it more or less likely that companies like your current employer, Capital One, will get away with hurting consumers.
Sir, I believe it depends on the CFPB's examination strategy.
So you think you can do just as much with seventy seven people as you can with three hundred and fifty to catch the crooks?
Sir, what I would note is that uh that staffing plan is subject
Yeah, I know it's subject to litigation because he's not allowed to shut it down by himself. Alright, let me just ask you then about your turn through the revolving door. You worked at the CFPB as a deputy director from twenty seventeen until twenty twenty, and then you became a VP at Capital One at the same time that the CFPB dropped its enforcement action against Capital One. Mister Johnson, do you still work for Capital One today?
I do, Senator. I am here today in my personal capacity.
So you're drawing a paycheck from capital one right now as you sit here and testify in front of us?
Senator, I'm testifying in my personal capacity today.
OK. But they're paying you to get confirmed for this job. I understand they're also letting you keep a bonus that you haven't yet earned when you leave. You know, they must be really excited about getting you confirmed here. Congress did not create CFPB to aid and abet Trump's corruption. You had a chance to take a different path, but all you've done today is indicate you're there to keep the corruption machine humming.
Mister Johnson, uh, have you, are you aware you're under oath in this hearing?
Yes, I am, sir.
Uh, have you ever broken the law?
I've had, uh, speeding tickets.
as as somebody in the car business, I don't know that uh those do count, but I'm talking about have you committed a felony.
No, sir.
And are you, do you commit to following the law in your new job?
Yes, sir, I do.
And with God judging you, your your dad, your step mom and your wife behind you, will you always follow the constitution and the laws of the United States of America if you were to be confirmed?
Other than my marriage vows, I don't know of any more important oath to take, I will, Senator.
thank you i recognize mr. reed
well thank you very much mr. chairman uh mister uh dennis i just wanna make a point uh not a question uh department of housing urban development operates a housing trust fund which i helped create in two thousand eight to build and maintain housing and affordable housing was one of the most significant problems we have there is two hundred and thirty eight million dollars currently sitting in the trust fund waiting to be allocated. Uh, this funding could build and rehab almost two thousand housing units throughout the United States for individual disabilities, senior citizens, other vulnerable Americans. And the funding should have been allocated already. And I hope that you will commit to do anything, everything possible to get this funding out the door as quickly as possible. And this is not a, every state in the union is facing this crisis. So I would hope you would make that commitment.
Yeah thank you, that's a program decision, but I'll work with the program and and share your share your thoughts.
Well I thank you, but uh uh I think this is gonna be well hopefully within your jurisdiction and you will do it. Uh Mister Johnson, the Militant Lending Act uh was an act of two thousand six, I was very much involved, it's very personal to me, I had the privilege of commanding soldiers in the eighty second and it was appalling frankly to see young eighteen year olds who were essentially hustled out of a lot of money by slick traders so one of the things we did is we put a thirty six percent interest cap for military personnel and in our meeting in in my office you said cf p b does not have the authority to supervise lenders with compliance and that's i believe highly inaccurate uh when this issue arose during the first trump administration you were the cfpb deputy director and the bureau's own legal division concluded that the law does authorize mla supervision and this was confirmed in a letter to me uh march eighth twenty nineteen from the acting director uh mister crininger and mister chairman i ask you miss content to enter the letter into the
see if that object
without objection
is
thank you
i just wanna give all the people here time to make sure they enjoy
uh the the key point here is that this is a tremendous tool in the cfp toolbox and to say it doesn't exist is first not accurate and second um it's really sort of undermining uh the families the military families and it's ironic to me that you know everyone's walking around wearing their american flag and we support the troops yet cfpp is doing very little uh not enough frankly to help the troops so uh i would uh ask that you uh set aside these views you gave to me and work actively for uh mla enforcement actions is that a commitment you'll make
Absolutely, Senator, um, when I was at the CFPB before we had an active MLA enforcement docket. Uh, protecting service members is an important function of the CFPB. It's also uh uh of personal interest to myself. I have a cousin serving in the Navy. Um, I want him and all other uh uh Americans who t put on the uniform and put themselves in harm's way to be protected.
Well I I I agree with that sentiment uh that is not been the the recent history of the cfpb so you have to change that atmosphere and attitude dramatically and i'll be watching closely this one uh cnbc recently reported that the department of commerce unknowingly allowed chinese owned companies to import thousands of cutting edge nvidia and amd chips for almost a full year before closing this loophole in may and if confirmed will you commit to reviewing this process and tell us how commerce let this uh happen what was the loophole and what measures you're implementing to to close that loophole
senator thank you for the question and also thank you for the time for speaking with me the other day um i'm not aware of any such loophole to my knowledge the rules that are in place should forbid such actions but that said if i'm confirmed i'm absolutely going to take
thank you very much uh thank you all very much thank you Mr. Chairman
I now recognize Mr. uh Senator Van Hollen
uh thank you uh Mr. Chairman uh Mr. Johnson last week I asked Acting Director Vogt if he'd like to get rid of the He was sitting on the dais right there. And his answer was yes. President Trump has said he'd like to get rid of the CFPB. So I have a simple question. Would you like to eliminate the CFPB?
Senator, that's not my intention. The CFPB is a creature of statute. Uh, Congress is assigned to it important laws to implement and execute. And my intention is to um execute the law.
Well, I'm I'm glad to hear that. So you would agree that it's important for the CFPB to deliver monetary relief to consumers that they're entitled to under the law.
Senator, I agree that it's important for the CFPB to execute the laws under its responsibility. I have testified in the past that uh properly structured and properly governed, the CFPB is capable of great good. Um, however, I think there are uh deficiencies in the current legislative structure and I have advocated in the past for changes to the CFPB's authority.
Do you think it can do its job making sure that consumers who've gotten screwed and cheated, you think it can do that job with an eighty percent cut to its enforcement staff?
Well, as I uh had mentioned earlier, Senator, that that staffing plan is subject to litigation. The parties have stayed at litigation uh pending the confirmation of a director and Uh, I would pledge to you to have an open mind, uh, to take a look at staffing levels with the agency.
Y- y- you would agree that if there was an eighty percent cut in the enforcement authorities at the Department of Justice that there are a lot of people who might not be getting their cases brought to insure justice. Would you agree with that?
Sir, I, it depends on the on the internal strategy and what other resources are available.
OK. I would just suggest if you get rid of eighty percent of your enforcement staff, that should be a pretty simple answer. Um, more people get cheated and less of them get any kind of accountability. Um, Ms. Warren, you would agree that the Bureau of Industry and Security plays an important role in protecting our national security, would you not?
Yes, sir.
So last week, uh, BIS announced that it was loosening restrictions on very sensitive exports to the UAE United Arab Emirates. The rule expressly makes it easier to export these sensitive technologies to a UAE company called G forty-two. According to press reports just yesterday, the Trump administration issued the rule over the warnings of BIS career staff, that the career staff were concerned that G forty-two had ties to China, creating a risk that any advanced technology exported to G forty-two could wind up in Chinese hands. You currently work at the Commerce Department. Are you aware of the national security concerns expressed about G forty-two by the career staff at BIS.
I'm not aware of any specific concerns. That said, you know, I very much value the career staff at BIS, I've worked closely with them. Um, and my understanding of the the role that BIS did and the the role change was to recognize the the close partnership that the UAE has had especially with the recent, um, the recent conflict in Iran.
Well, let's talk about that closer, sometimes cozy relationship, especially with the the president and the president's family. Are you aware that Sheikh Tanun, who's a member of the Emirati royal family, is G forty two's chair and that he bought five hundred million dollars of stock in World Liberty Financial just days before Donald Trump was sworn in? World Liberty Financial, of course, um, is the Trump family crypto business. Were you aware of that transaction?
No, sir.
Did you hear anything about it?
I've seen the general reports after the rule change, but I'm I'm not familiar with it.
Well, you, it was, it was a, it was a front page Wall Street Journal story and it's been much discussed in this committee and in other committees. So, I just wanna be clear what's going on here. We have a situation where the career staff have concerns about G-forty-two. The president has a five hundred million dollar relationship with its chair. And lo and behold, G forty two gets access to very sensitive technologies that the career staff at BIS warned could fall into China's hands. I hope that, um, if confirmed, you will really dig into this, um, that's on top of about a two billion dollar investment that the UAE royal family Sheikh Danun made in World Liberty Financial months after, uh, the, uh, President's inauguration. So you have five hundred million before the inauguration, two billion later. This stinks. And I hope whoever's in this position will start to clean it up. Thank you, Mister Chairman.
I recognize Senator Warnock for his five minutes.
Thank you, Mister Chair. The Fair Housing Initiative program helps. The Fair Housing Initiative program helps local governments and nonprofit organizations enforce the nation's fair housing laws. In fact, nearly three in four fair housing complaints are first heard by these organizations who use federal funds to investigate complaints and conduct education about renters' rights. Mister Dennis, you are nominated uh to be the chief financial officer at HUD, but you're basically doing the job right now. Uh, so I would imagine that you are aware that HUD recently announced they were making eighty three million dollars available under this fair housing initiative. Uh, how many of these dollars will go to these experienced nonprofits who help so many Americans with their fair housing complaints?
Yeah, I'm not exactly sure. How those dollars will flow or how much, that's a that's a program decision. Um, you know, that when in the office of the chief financial officer, we're responsible for making sure those funds are available, and then they're properly accounted for once they leave HUD and report.
So. So you're not you're not aware of, so let me let me tell you that the answer is zero. HUD HUD uh does not reserve funding for these organizations, and it explicitly disqualified prior recipients from certain funds. So HUD is reserving zero dollars for these organizations that are actually experienced with addressing uh these issues around fair housing. They're the the first line of defense. They're the ones who see it and none of them will receive anything. So, how is this consistent with the law? Which requires funds to be made available to experience non-profit fair housing enforcement organizations, that's what the law says.
Yeah, again they're program decisions and they're done in consultation with uh with uh general counsels. But I will uh assure you that we are following the law,
Yeah, it's it I I assure you that it's not consistent with the law and and that it's bad practice
we would not do anything to violate the law.
um to to uh just disqualify the organizations that are actually experienced with with doing this work and i i hope that you will uh rethink this uh if confirmed uh to this position. Mister Johnson, thank you for meeting with me in my office earlier this week. If confirmed you will lead the CFPB, a regulator that the Trump administration has decimated. Last week this committee uh had Acting Director Russell Vogt before us And he replied yes. When Senator Van Hollen asked if he favored eliminating the CFPB, uh, you're up for the nomination, same question, yes or no, do you agree with Mr. Vogt and do you favor eliminating the CFPB, yes or no?
Senator, I've advocated for legislative restructuring of the agency to ensure that it can better enforce
Do you agree with eliminating it, yes or no?
the law.
Eliminate, el- the question is eliminating it.
If confirmed, if
Do you think it should be eliminated? Yes.
Senator, if confirmed, I'll enforce the law which includes title ten of Dodd-Frank.
Um, you you wanna answer the question. La- last week, Mister Vogt also noted that the CFPB has imposed, quote, huge costs on the American people since its inception. Uh, yes or no, do you agree with Mister Vogt that the CFPB, an agency which, by the way, has returned twenty one billion dollars to consumers who were harmed, who were defrauded by bad actors. Uh, his opinion is that it has imposed quote " huge costs" on Americans. Uh, last question, Mister Vogt, uh, also uh, told us that he believed the CFPB's medical debt rule was illegal. In fact, under his direction, the CFPB never defended the rule in court and instead sided with debt collectors. Let's assume the rule was legal. For the sake of argument. Do you think the medical debt rule was a good idea?
Senator, my understanding of the resolution of that, uh, case was that the district court judge actually did reach the merits of that case and found that the CFPB exceeded its statutory authority in promulgating that rule.
Uh, uh, I'm asking you, do you think it was a good idea or a bad idea? uh, to protect millions of Americans from, from medical debt. I'm asking you a policy question.
Well. Yes, sir. And I appreciated our conversation on this, um, when we met. I do think there are two important policy principles here. One is ensuring the integrity and accuracy of information that's in the credit reporting system itself and the CFPB's responsibility under FCR A is to insure that integrity. As I mentioned to you also, You know, I I don't want folks to be unfairly punished for,
You you can't say.
you know, incurring debts that are, uh, you know, something that they didn't anticipate for. You know, if this happened to my family, I, um, would do everything I could to, um, insure that they are safe. So, it's a.
I I appreciate that perspective. I hope it gets us to a much better place in where we find ourselves. Thanks.
Senator Gallego.
Hey, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Mr. Janice, would you say you're, uh, as a former auditor, you pride yourself on fiscal responsibility and catching waste
yes
well let's do some uh quick tests here would you say that six hundred million dollars on a ballroom half of which is paid for from american taxpayers is that a good fiscal decision yes or no
i'm sorry six hundred what
six hundred million dollars on a ballroom half of which is from american taxpayers is that a good fiscal decision yes or no
oh i'm i'm not gonna get involved in what the white house is doing there
would you be able to answer this question as hud's cfo this is literally the job stewarding the public money instead of watching it set on fire so let's try a much easier one how about five million dollars in taxpayer dollars on gilding statues would that be a good decision
yeah i'm i'm not sure these i'm not sure what you're referring to
how about nearly eight million dollars of taxpayer money to paint the eisenhower the eisenhower building white would that be a good decision on money
i'm not i'm not sure what you're referring to
well having gone to the other six trillion dollars this administration is dumping on to the national debt over the next ten years with the one big beautiful bill a bill that has ripped healthcare and snap benefits away from many many Arizonans and millions of millions of Americans and blowing hundreds of millions of dollars on a ballroom and vanity projects isn't really physically responsible whatsoever while Americans are getting screwed right now so the reason i ask this question is people are wondering what's gonna happen with the this country and this country's budget and their money so hardworking Arizonans aren't really a slush fund for this uh administration they're vanity projects uh mister johnson question how would you describe your relationship with uh rostro vote
well i um came to know mister vote because we were both uh former staff members for uh jeb hensarling
so mister johnson one i apologize one cfpb employee facing termination described you in acting cfpb director russell vote as two peas in a pod do you agree with that characterization are you and rus uh russell two peas in a pod
senator i'm not russell vote uh if confirmed i would
i can tell that
i would make my own decisions
can you name one decision made by acting director vote during his time at the cfpb that you disagree with
none come to mind at the moment
for example one thing i definitely agree is like do you agree with the cancellation of the eighty million dollar order against navy federal credit union that was money owed to cheated service members and their families
senator i wasn't at the cfpb i don't know the facts at hand that uh led to consideration of any enforcement action
ok would you agree with killing the rule that stopped americans personal data from being sold without consent uh was a bad decision
i'm sorry to which rule are you referring senator
the rule to stop the personal data from being sold uh on the open market
i i'm not sure that i understand exactly which rule you're referring to
OK, fine. Moving on. You've you've spoken to that. So do you agree with putting medical debt back on on Americans' credit reports?
That was a rule, uh, that was attempted, um, to be, uh, promulgated by the CFPB. Uh, it was challenged and the court determined that the CFPB had exceeded its statutory authority.
So you agree then it was a good decision.
I'm, I was just recounting the, what the court said, which is that the CFPB didn't have the authority to promulgate that rule.
So regardless of that, you would say that's, then we just, that you're OK with it then.
Well, uh, Senator Warnock could also question me on this, sir, and I understand, um, the real burden that, uh, families can face if they're facing medical debts. I think, um, you know, the government should be, uh, looking for opportunities to help those folks in that circumstance. I also said that, um, another, uh, uh, policy principle at stake is the accuracy, integrity of information in the credit report. and i think it's uh a question that uh policymakers should consider
so moving on to uh back to the cfpb statue requires uh in terms of office of older americans and office of serving members affairs among others these offices are millions of people uh those offices obviously can't be staffed with a small handful of staffers especially uh in the nature of what's going on is that correct
those are offices that were created by the dodd-frank act and the
that's right
staffing levels are subject to ongoing litigation.
So Dot Frank requires an office dedicated to older Americans. Uh, it handles financial abuse. We have big, big retirement communities uh in Arizona. Pension protection retirement scams, things of that nature. Um, do you agree that an office can't really do its job properly if it's done by a skeleton crew?
Senator, I had laid out one of my priorities in my opening statement, which is to protect americans from fraud and scam and that includes older americans who may be uniquely vulnerable to those scams that they've been
and how can you do that if it's going to be these offices are gonna be gutted and i gonna have the the proper uh staffing to do that
senator i have an open mind about staffing levels for offices and my understanding of the state of litigation is it all have the opportunity to make those judgments
you're back
that concludes the question and answer portion of today's hearing i'd like to thank our nominees for testifying before the committee today and thank you for your willingness to serve our country. For senators, all follow-on questions, for the record, must be submitted by Friday, July twenty fourth at noon. Witnesses, please respond by Friday, July thirty first at noon to the written questions you receive in order to facilitate this committee promptly processing these nominations. With that, this hearing is adjourned.
Morning digest
Start every morning briefed on yesterday’s hearings
A free weekday email covering yesterday’s hearings and transcripts newly unlocked in the archive.
