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Senate · Hearing transcript

An oversight hearing to examine the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Tuesday, September 15, 2026

Summary

  • Kash Patel (Director, Federal Bureau of Investigation) announced the FBI captured all ten Top Ten fugitives, including a weekend arrest in Venezuela.
  • Patel testified violent crime arrests rose ninety percent, gang arrests thirty percent, with 11,081 children located and 5,072 predators arrested.
  • Sen. Durbin pressed Patel on dropping automatic hiring disqualifications for theft, sex solicitation, and bestiality, which Patel defended as protecting trafficking victims.
  • Sen. Grassley praised Patel for increased arrests and transparency, while Sen. Durbin condemned purges, immigration diversions, and alleged Epstein cover-up.
  • Patel pledged follow-up answers on Epstein suspicious activity reports and foreign requests as the committee awaits testimony from former special counsel Jack Smith.

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Hearing Details

Witnesses

Members Who Spoke

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Transcript

Sen. Grassley (IA)18:13 – 33:54

good morning director patel welcome to your second annual oversight hearing i appreciate your attendance today and unlike director ray on one occasion when he left early you committed to not leaving early you're now in your year two of your directorship in that short amount of time you faced many challenges both internal and external forces that you faced it's not an easy task managing both internal and external forces while at the same time repairing the damage done by your predecessors you'll hear uh democrats criticizing you today for dreamed up failures they're going to criticize you for firing many personnel and supposedly weakening the agency but the numbers on crime show that you've gotten the job done According to data provided to this committee in the past eighteen months criminal arrests are up eighty percent violent crime arrests are up ninety percent gang and criminal enterprise arrests are up thirty percent as compared to the preceding eighteen months ensuring the safety of kids is of monumental importance to me and and we've also had on that subject a major bipartisan focus of all the members of this committee on safety for kids. In the past eighteen months the FBI has helped to locate and identify over eleven thousand children who were the That's up twenty one percent from the preceding eighteen months. In the same amount of time the FBI has been involved in the arrest of over five thousand child predators and human traffickers. That's up thirteen percent from the preceding eighteen months. These uh predators are the definition of evil and i applaud your leadership in hunting down these awful people. This all while democrats stood idly by while biden harris administration lost or couldn't locate tens of thousands of these children. The fbi personnel who helped bring these evil predators to justice deserve the thanks of our grateful nation. They're doing the job the right way, unlike the previous Biden administration. And during your tenure, nine of the FBI's top ten fugitives have been captured. These data's points show solid work by the men and women of the fbi under your leadership of course you would expect me to talk about whistleblowers while you are here i encourage you to foster an environment where true and legitimate whistleblowers are rewarded and not punished for blowing the whistle for those who've helped who you have helped the committee thanks you i also encourage you to hear them out personally because they'll give you the on-boardish view leadership needs to hear and not want to hear and of course with the thousands of people that work under you you can't know everything that's going on This congress I've made thousands of pages of records public, thanks in a large part to brave whistleblowers. Also under your leadership, I've begun to see r- records that I've sought for a long period of time. For example, I received a December twenty nineteen email to FBI agent Joe Pianca uh who was heavily involved in the Crossfire hurricane. That email contains information that appears to corroborate existing public evidence that President Trump was the target of a political hit and the government knew it many years that it was going on. The the email ought to be declassified. for the public to draw their own conclusions why wouldn't president trump want all this information about the abuse that he took b d classified if you get a chance to talk to him i wish you'd ask him that speaking of crossfire hurricane today i'll make public additional emails relating to a sub crossfire sub case mmm The case involves at least three discredited FBI officials that Democrats still try to defend. One, special agent Thibault, the anti-trump agent who violated the hatchet for his partisan political conduct. Two, special agent Jardina who reportedly filed a false FISA in the wallard ferez case and was involved in many cases against republicans and three kevin agent kevin guno who uh wanted to criminally investigate elon musk for facilitating sending in an email asking for five things officials accomplish that particular week I'm making that email public today in the records. Jardina asked at least seven times via email in about four weeks to place himself on the Crossfire team and start a new case on Trump. And he did so with the help of Thibault. Based on the records known to date That case. Didn't advance. His records as well as the case he tried to open on Senator Sinema. Undercut public statements. By uh former FBI officials. That agents don't get to pick. Their cases. Notably his efforts to join the cost fire team. Began as early as January twenty seventeen. Right before Trump took office. And on the day of Trump's inauguration, J- Jardina emailed FBI agent Joe Pianca, quote, "I wanted to mention again my interest in joining that case. For almost a decade now, I've made records public showing how a number of now-discredited law enforcement and intelligence officials Scheme to take out Trump and other Republicans. And here we are in twenty twenty six, still finding records from years ago, showing even more evidence of that targeting. The overall sustained efforts by the deep state in the dark corners of the bureaucracy is worse than anything Trump has been accused of. At least Trump is upfront and open so people can judge. The previous Democrat administrations, under Obama and Biden, conducted secret, insidious, and downright evil operations that almost took down our government. That's arguably worse than Watergate. Which brings me to my next point, Starting in july twenty twenty two i began asking questions about operation road river round river based on whistleblower disclosures to my offices based on allegations round river was a foreign influence task force operation that in some cases first shut down sources And secondly, marginalized information provided by sources on false association of Russian disinformation. Now this happens to be the very same discredited task force that you hear, that you'll hear Democrats at uh attacking you, Mister Patel, for terminating. Uh Just last year, Senator Johnson and I released two FBI ten twenty-three documents. The records summarize source reporting about alleged Biden family criminality. Based on information provided so far, it appears that ten twenty-three's Senator Johnson and I released were included in Round River. For those in the partisan media. i'm not drawing a conclusion on all the records provided so far the question presented is whether the the ray fbi fully investigated all allegations or simply swept them under the rug for political purposes and the records from the government include include too many redactions Frustrating our ability to draw conclusions. Regarding redactions, my office has been informed by government officials from multiple government agencies that one of your employees, FBI employee E. Jody Peterson is largely responsible for obstructions on many productions not just on round river if true her actions undermine your and this administration's historic efforts to bring about transparency and i am referring to a presidential uh uh declassification uh so the attorney general not you necessarily mister patel should check up on how jody peterson is not following trump's declassification uh executive order right now i'm concerned about how your predecessors at the tfbi handle federal records retention in round river as i noted at your last oversight hearing prohibited access files were used in crossfire hurricane That type of file restriction makes documents extremely difficult, if not impossible to locate, for production to Congress or FOIA requesters. I have similar concerns then about Round River. For example, an unclassified sentence in an email from FBI Supervisor Special Agent Michael DeLuro A member of the now disbanded foreign influence task force said quote "We apologize for the classification caveats, but our office of general counsel has directed us to classify our work this way on past experiences with cross crossfire hurricane. It appears FBI intentionally misclassified information, which will result in more obstacles to obtaining access. The Foreign Influence Task Force was the very same outfit that gave me and Senator Johnson that famous fake briefing used to undermine our Biden family investigation in twenty twenty. director patel you're right to shutdown the political task force and lastly through protected whistleblower disclosures i've obtained case records on peter navarro i've long said the manner that the ray fbi treated navarro at his arrest was unnecessary he would have been gladly to show up just as a result of a phone call. These new records show the FBI monitored his appearance on Sean Hannity's Fox News show and other media. I offer these records for additional public transparency about his case. Director Patel, as they have before. I assume the other side, despite many of their own shortcomings will personally attack you, question your ethics, your truthfulness, and your abilities. Don't let that affect you, and I hope we can uh have a uh really good discussion here. And uh I'd ask you uh if you need more time, if you get talked over and stuff like that, I'll give you time to respond so you can do it. in a thoughtful manner. I hope you'll be the better person and not return the favor with personal attacks, but set the record straight with facts and information that we in the public appreciate. Senator Gerben.

Sen. Durbin (IL)33:55 – 46:06

Thanks Chairman Grassley, for holding this hearing at this consequential moment in the history of the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Let me say at the outset that we have just uh heard again uh an introduction by the Chairman that gave uh reference to Crossfire Hurricane. and a lot of things uh that uh are in the history of the Department of Justice and the Federal Bureau of Investigation. Over a year ago, all the Democrats on this committee said stop giving these speeches and bring the people before us to testify under oath as to what actually happened. Jack Smith, the special counsel, who is a conference a constant reference point when it comes to this grand conspiracy, has volunteered for more than a year to appear before this committee under oath and answer the questions. What more could we ask of him? And yet the Republican majority on this committee refuses to bring him. Perhaps in a few weeks, when we've been promised he will show up, he c- they can start by explaining why did you wait a year, if we're talking about a grand conspiracy. Jack Smith, the special counsel, is now under or will be under oath before this committee. Each of us will have a chance to ask pertinent questions to clear it up. For some reason, the decision was made at some level to let this controversy fester. rather than to bring the person in who can actually answer the questions. This hearing couldn't come at a more important time. Twenty five years after nine eleven. The deadliest terrorist attack in history. The FBI at that point had to immediately adapt to a changed world. Do you realize that on nine eleven, when information was gathered about the potential terrorists, it was sent to the FBI bureaus across the United States, not by any email uh device or any computer device, but hand mailed, because the FBI computer capability on nine eleven was below the expertise level of radio shack. It was that bad. From modernizing technology to integrating agents and analysts rather than silo them, the bureau built out capabilities and developed immense expertise across its workforce after that terrible event twenty five years ago. Director Robert Mueller led the FBI at this tumultuous time. He, more than any single individual, was responsible for modernizing the FBI to combat the threats we face in the twenty-first century. I was proud to work with him on a bipartisan basis. I knew little or nothing about computer technology. I called him and said, when I heard about the Radio Shack comparison, it's clear we need to do something to modernize technology. If you'll lead in that area, I'll try to help." And that's what I did. We didn't always agree, but I always respected him. Bob Mueller was a patriot and a person of honesty and integrity. Modernizing the FBI has not been an easy process. Balancing growing focus on national security and terrorism prevention efforts with traditional work investigating white collar crime and corruption has taken a lot of time and effort. And over the years, the FBI, as it gained more authority, at times in history, misused it. There is still work to be done to earn public trust and ensure the most powerful, federal investigative agency in the world only engages in lawful operations. Continue to meet, continuing to meet new threats while tackling these challenges requires steady, committed leadership from someone who understands the stakes and has the humility to lead as a servant of the public, like Bob Mueller. Sadly for the American people, the current director does not meet these standards. Mister Patel is the least qualified and most partisan FBI director in our nation's history. He does not have the judgment, experience, or temperament of Director Mueller. Before he was confirmed, Mister Patel falsely claimed in public that the FBI quote "was planning January sixth for a year" close quote. He compiled an enemies list of public servants he called quote " government gangsters" close quote who he promised to target if he was confirmed as head of the FBI. Despite the warnings of Senate Democrats during his confirmation hearing, our Republican colleagues chose to ignore these facts, to prioritize President Trump's retribution campaign, over the safety of Americans. And they joined on a partisan basis, confirming Director Patel to lead the FBI. Under, but this, Mr. Patel's failed leadership, decades of efforts to modernize and reform the FBI are being undone. And the bureau has been reshaped as a political weapon against President Trump's political enemies, and a shield to protect the president and his mega loyalist, not the American people. Director Patel has been the central figure pushing the so-called grand conspiracy, diverting FBI resources to inane, debunked conspiracy theories that the quote " deep state" has been targeting President Trump since his first campaign. The deep state, characterized by some as worse than Watergate, secret and insidious, and yet the majority on this committee refuses to call, Jack Smith as special counsel, under oath to answer questions about this so-called grand conspiracy. Director Patel is also wasting FBI resources to re-litigate the twenty twenty presidential election. How many times have nominees who are judges, respected professionals, professors come before this committee and refuse to acknowledge what every eighth grader in America knows. President Trump lost the twenty twenty election to Joe Biden by seven million votes. That's simple, it's obvious, it's a matter of fact. And yet these nominees refuse to acknowledge that reality, because this is part of the great conspiracy theory that Trump never loses anything. To weaponize the FBI against president's opponents, director Patel has overseen a purge of thousands, thousands of law enforcement officials. From analysts and agents to the most senior leadership, the bureau has been deprived of tens of thousands of years of cumulative experience of these agents. Director Ha- Patel has installed MAGA loyalist as political appointees in key career positions. And he imposed, even imposed loyalty test requiring FBI officials to undergo polygraphs to say whether they ever criticize him. And at the same time, thousands of agents have been reassigned from their primary criminal and national security mission to immigration enforcement. With the number of FBI personnel working on immigration matters increasing by over two thousand percent as of last September. And let me ask you, where are the worst of the worst? Overwhelmingly, the people who are being detained and deported have no criminal record whatsoever. In total, over nine thousand FBI personnel, twenty-five percent of the bureau worked on immigration cases between January and September of last year. As part of this shift in resources, Department of Justice shut down twenty-three thousand criminal cases in the first six months of the Trump administration. To replace these career professionals he purged, Director Patel has gutted hiring standards. Today will be his opportunity, under oath, to answer some basic questions about the standards being used for new FBI agents. In an interview in July, he claimed the FBI is " quote, " losing too many qualified candidates". His words, to the rigors of requirements from yesteryear." What are those so-called obsolete requirements? According to a memo issued in June, the FBI has removed from its list of automatic hiring disqualifications, theft from an employer, sex solicitation, and bestiality. To add insult to injury, Director Patel is trying to take credit for the successful efforts of state and local law enforcement to reduce violent crime. The reality is that violent crime spiked during COVID-nineteen pandemic, and has been steadily, consistently declining since twenty twenty two. Every member of this committee knows that our local police, state and local, not the FBI, are primarily responsible for combating violent crime. Don't believe me? Look at the data. Cities where the National Guard or other federal forces were not deployed had a twenty twenty five drop in violent crime, similar to cities where they were deployed. It is misleading and offensive for this administration, which has coddled January six rioters, giving them full unconditional pardons from the president as one of his first acts of office. This administration has ended the career of thousands of professional FBI agents because they didn't meet some political test, and blocked hundreds of millions of dollars in grants to local law enforcement, to claim credit for our brave front-line police officers. That is not backing the blue by any standard. In fact, the cities where federal forces were deployed are experiencing widespread abuses of constitutional rights of their res- residents, including multiple lethal shootings of American citizens. The FBI is charged with investigating the deadly use of force by federal agents, but it has turned its back on its duties under Director Patel. Instead, the Department of Homeland Security is now the primary investigator of whether its own poorly vetted and trained employees violated the law during ill-conceived missions. Director Patel has also played a key role in the Trump administration's cover-up of the Epstein files. Director Patel diverted more than a thousand FBI agents from their critical missions to work on twenty-four-hour shifts reviewing every page of the Epstein files. These personnel were instructed to flag any records in which President Trump's name was mentioned. That review ended in an unsigned memorandum from the Department of Justice and FBI, simply claiming quote, there is no incriminating client list in the Epstein files, close quote. Director Patel still has not responded to our letter from more than a year ago, asking about his personal role in this cover-up. But we now know that Director Patel reportedly joined in a meeting at the White House Situation Room about how to protect the President from fallout from this cover-up at the Epstein files. Director Patel failed to insure the Trump administration actually recru recruited uh pardon me released as they required everything about Epstein and his co-conspirators. This has come at the expense of the American people who deserve transparency. And it has also been the expense to survivors of Epstein's abuse, who deserve justice and accountability. So today we find ourselves in a position where the FBI is expending immense resources to protect President Trump politically and deliver retribution to his enemies but is diverting resources away from protecting the safety, security, and rights of ordinary Americans and their families. Mister Chairman, this will likely be my last FBI oversight hearing. as I'm leaving the Senate. I came of age during the sixties, when J. Edgar Hoover, FBI lawlessly targeted political opponents and civil rights and labor leaders. I was proud to be part of bipartisan efforts over the many years to ensure the FBI protected both security and freedom of the American people. I'm disappointed this committee has stood by since January twenty twenty five, as that work has been undone. I look forward to a day, hopefully in the very near future, when this committee will fulfill its duty to hold director patel accountable for his leadership thank you

Sen. Grassley (IA)46:07 – 46:24

um director patel would you please stand so we square uh you affirm that the testimony you're about to give before this committee be the truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help you god

Kash Patel (Witness)46:25 – 46:25

i do

Sen. Grassley (IA)46:26 – 46:35

thank you please be seated Uh you may have uh your opening statement now. I'll start with ten minute round of questions.

Kash Patel (Witness)46:37 – 59:11

Good morning. Four days ago our nation marked twenty five years since terrorists attacked our homeland September eleven two thousand one and murdered two thousand nine hundred and seventy seven innocent people as a kid who grew up on long island this resonated personally with me. Twenty five years later we honor the lives taken that day, the first responders, the survivors who carried its consequences and the thousands of FBI employees who answered the call in New York, at the Pentagon, in Pennsylvania, and across the country, and the thirty-four FBI employees that have perished as a result of nine eleven. Over eighteen months ago during my confirmation process, I told you that the FBI needed to be faster, more efficient, eliminate bureaucracy, and reduce the weaponization of law enforcement completely. Embrace technological technological advancements, and engage with our partners, and most importantly, let good cops be cops. Under President Trump's leadership, I'm proud to say we have not only accelerated that mission, we have delivered. This has been the most prolific run of crime reduction in the United States' history with the help of our great partners since the beginning of the Trump administration. Here are a few numbers, and behind these stats are lives saved across the country. The FBI has arrested fifty four thousand violent crime criminals. That's up ninety percent from the eighteen month year period prior to that. That's making America safe. Thirty one thousand violent gang members have been arrested by the FBI. That's up thirty percent, making America safe. We've removed, the FBI has removed three thousand two hundred and fifty eight kilograms of fentanyl. That's enough to kill a quarter billion Americans. That seizure is up eight percent by the FBI. That's making America safe. We have located, found and identified Eleven thousand eighty-one child victims. That is up twenty-one percent. That is making America safe. This FBI has found and located more children than any FBI in the history of this country. We have arrested five thousand seventy-two child predators and human traffickers. That's up thirteen percent. This FBI is making America safe. We, this FBI, have arrested four thousand two hundred and sixty foreign terrorist organization That's up thirty eight percent, including the fact that this FBI has stopped eleven hundred criminal perpetrators from committing terrorist attacks on US soil. This FBI has executed eighty six foreign transfers of custody, a fifty four percent increase for perps captured overseas. And we've extradited a hundred and fifty seven criminals from overseas a sixty five percent increase in just these last eighteen months. In twenty twenty five, according to the uniform crime report, we delivered the largest reduction in the murder rate in the history of America. We, the FBI, captured more than two and a half times the number of the top ten most wanted fugitives on the FBI's list from the prior administration. In fact, Mister Chairman, I'm proud to announce today, and I hate to correct you, we haven't captured nine of the top ten most individuals on our list, we've captured ten. Just this past weekend we captured a thug down in Venezuela who was on our most wanted list and on the run for years. He has been captured, apprehended and is on his way back to the United States of America. That's ten of ten. Nobody in the FBI history has done that. This year is just another example of how this FBI is capturing literally the worst of the worst all around the world. On top of that, we've captured six of the most wanted fraudsters around the world. Taking the murder rate down twenty points is no easy effort. It requires a team lift, state, local and international partners. This includes results in cities like Baltimore, which reach which reached its lowest mid-year homicide numbers in recorded history this year. In Memphis, we accomplished a fifty percent reduction in homicide for a city that had the highest per capita homicide rate in the country, thanks to the President's task force. And right here in Washington DC, We are on track to have the lowest homicide numbers since nineteen ninety. These events are not by accident. The success means that this FBI has made America safer than it's ever been. And I'm proud to lead this agency. While doing all this great work for the American people in the world. The FBI prepared for the largest influx of tourists. Between the Club World Cup. Two F one races. Protected three hundred thousand Americans in the Olympics. And then across six America two fifty events. and this year's world cup alone we welcomed over twelve million visitors to the united states to attend these events not one single security incident occurred at any single one of these events no major security incidents with our partners this is how we keep america safe this is what happens when we back to blue and this new fbi has been rebuilt to crush violent crime and defend the homeland these are important changes Um, the these are important results that happened due to important changes. The changes are as follows. We established for the first time ever the Law Enforcement Partner Council, putting a thousand agents back into the field, deployed more than two hundred additional intel analysts permanently into the field instead of Washington DC, and bolstered our JTTFs, all fifty-six of them. We added for the first time ever, in one year, two thousand seven hundred and fifty task force officers to the FBI, putting trained men and women of law enforcement right in our offices. We created the NSPM seven joint mission center to turn intelligence into action against political violence and domestic terrorism finally uniting ten agencies for the first time in our history. That JMC, which is housed by this FBI, has already arrested more than two hundred individuals leading to two hundred and fifty indictments. We built for the first time the director's strategic information center, our first ever joint operations center that modernized the FBI into sharing rapid intelligence that used to take hours now takes less than one minute. We established the nihilistic violent extremist fusion cell to bring our counterterrorism and child exploitation experts to target on-line predators who are preying on our children. This FBI has arrested five hundred percent more predators on-line in this last eighteen months than the prior eighteen months before that and through our fifty-nine homeland security task forces we created the first permanent of its presence of its kind across the nation to bring our state local federal and intel partners into one location. across this country to represent every single state. These are real world changes. We saw great threats to our nation. We and this FBI led the effort to disrupt many plots, to include eight extremists who wanted to kill elected officials, civilians and military members at the White House UFC Freedom two fifty event. We stopped it. We arrested five individuals last year for what we call the Pumpkin Day plot in Michigan. who wanted to blow up people in michigan from three separate states during a single month our holiday month of december of last year this fbi stopped four terrorist attacks in california texas north carolina and pennsylvania separate terrorist attacks were stopped and just this past weekend this fbi stopped another isis inspired attack in pittsburgh arresting an individual before he was able to go out and kill innocent civilians in the name of isis These attacks did not happen because the FBI and our partners worked around the clock, found the threats, and stopped them. Improving technology is something that is deeply important to me. And for the first time ever, we have expanded our overseas biometric collection efforts with foreign partners to intercept targets before they happened. That means we're getting more facial recognition scans, more iris scans, and more information about predators and people and criminals who wish to do us harm and stopping them before they can do that. Artificial intelligence. when used appropriately under the parameters of the law. When I got to this seat, this FBI had two test use cases for artificial intelligence. We just hit our hundred and fortieth. That's a six hundred and five percent increase since I've been in this seat, to process information, to triage intelligence, analyze and get this information out to our local partners. Recently, for the first time, the FBI was mandated by congressional statute to have a zero, zero sample backlog at our DNA laboratory in Quantico. Over the last four years, that number grew to one point eight million. backlog in violation of federal statute. I'm proud to announce as of just a couple of weeks ago, we have zeroed out that backlog because we used technology, AI, and improved equipment to make sure we capture these DNA profiles, put them in our CODIS database, and allow law enforcement partners to get after the threat. We established the first ever counter-UAS training center at our Redstone, Arsenal and Huntsville, Alabama to make sure that the modern threat that the adversary uses to harm our way of life is counter-manded by state and locals. No FBI has ever built a schoolhouse for them. We did. And we have trained hundreds of law enforcement officers, which we deployed across the World Cup, to interdict seven hundred and fifty drones over eleven venues, across the World Cup's thirty eight days. That's seventy eight Super Bowls in thirty eight days, to put it in perspective, and not a single major security incident there. The cyber strategy, the first of its kind by President Trump, was issued. And underneath that, the FBI launched Operation Winter Shield and Operation Riptide to go on defense and offense for cyber criminals. in our recent work we launched thirteen joint sequence operations resulting in two under arrest six extraditions and froze twenty three million dollars in illegally frozen uh assets and took down millions of networks on the dark web more accountability is coming through this fbi we saved this fbi three hundred million dollars in taxpayer funding by scuttling wasteless leases and duplicative contracts as i promised during my confirmation the shift is outside of d. c. into the heartland of america And I've reduced the footprint by one third in Washington DC. And we're gonna continue that effort. In terms of transparency, as you know, I'm committed to transparency. In just the first eighteen months, we shared nearly fifty thousand pages of documents with the Senate and the House. To put that in perspective, that's a three hundred and fifty percent increase from the prior two directors combined in eleven years. Foreign engagements are a critical part of this FBI's mission. Thanks to President Trump's leadership, this FBI is able to engage with foreign counterparts directly, more than it's ever done before. I've single-handedly led more foreign engagements in the last eighteen months than any eighteen month tenure of an FBI director. Since I took over, I've made over one hundred calls to my foreign counterparts. To put that in perspective, in the last three and a half years of my predecessor's administration, he made twenty. Because of this engagement, it directly led to the execution and transfer of eighty-six foreign transfer of custody's which the FBI executed overseas. That means eighty-six violent offenders. criminals, terrorists, narco-traffickers, gang-bangers and predators of children were brought back here for prosecution. On top of that, we saw a fifty four percent increase in extraditions of individuals housed overseas, captured by this FBI. The same list, gang-bangers, traffickers, terrorists, and those who wanna do harm to our children and cyber criminals. These subjects are literally the worst of the worst, and this is what happens when you pick up the phone and call your partners. Indian country is something that's deeply important to me, and something that I didn't wanna have forgot. So Operation Steadfast Promise is the largest ever surge to Indian country across our country. We have almost five hundred FBI employees dedicated to this mission alone, that has never happened in the history of the FBI. We also launched Voices Not Forgotten for Indian country. If you're a if you're a missing person, if you're a victim, if you have information regarding the most high profile cases on Indian country, this FBI quadrupled the reward to at least twenty five thousand dollars, and it's going to be an enduring continuing program. we have investigated more and opened more indian country investigations during these last eighteen months than any fbi before we've also opened up the billings montana field office to add resources to the field it's the first time we've opened up a new field office full field office in the fbi along with our new field field office our law enforcement attache office in new zealand so for the first time this fbi has full law enforcement attache offices across all five eyes partnerships the most important intelligence sharing agreement there is the the men and women of this fbi are delivering we're stopping terrorist attacks securing our major sporting events defending our critical infrastructure and rebuilding this institution around one standard putting the mission first with this committee's support we'll continue to move forward and we will never stop working for the american people thank you

Sen. Grassley (IA)59:12 – 1:00:00

thank you director patel now we have ten minutes uh time for each member uh in april twenty twenty six i wrote eight major internet companies to insure knickknack uh received enough data to hold online child predators accountable knickknack uh informed me last month that several companies have quote significantly improved unquote their child safety reporting the fbi has assigned personnel to knickknack uh to uh review online's reports what improvements can these companies make so that the fbi can more effectively turn the tables and hunt down predators

Kash Patel (Witness)1:00:01 – 1:00:52

thank you for your work as you said protecting our children is one of the greatest priorities we have the national center for missing and exploited children NCMEC is a reliable partner the leading partner of this fbi and thanks to your outreach to the private sector partners these companies a lot of these large social media companies Um, behind your calls, I called them as well, Mr. Chairman. And what they've done is allowed us to gain access to their intelligence and their databases for the first time ever in a secure fashion specifically for their whole role of man-hunting child predators and finding missing and exploited children. And as I stated in my opening, we have found and located over eleven thousand children that's up twenty some percent. That's never happened before. So thank you for that jolt in the arm that was needed in the private sector, and we're gonna continue to expand those engagements and work Congress to draft legislation so that this can, this continuous flow of data can come in legally and lawfully and that law enforcement can use it.

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:00:53 – 1:01:06

Uh, since that's a priority of mine, I'd like to have your team update me if there are companies that continue to refuse to provide the data necessary to safeguard children online.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:01:06 – 1:01:06

I will.

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:01:07 – 1:02:15

Uh, Department of Homeland Security has produced to my office letters of recommendation for uh two afghan evacuees placed in the united states during the biden administration department of homeland security has confirmed in writing that the government official who signed the letters was morgan killington according to state department emails killington is not a real person the afghan evacuees charged with shooting two west virginia national guardsmen and the afghan evacuee charged with uh funding isis-k received those letters of recommendation clearly this is a sign of failed vetting uh is the fbi performing ongoing reviews to insure that known or suspected terrorists didn't slip into our country or otherwise shouldn't uh should have been barred from entry What has the FTAI found up to date?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:02:18 – 1:02:40

We are working with our our partners at DHS who lead this mission on on vetting. We are providing all of our um intelligence that has been collected uh on these individuals every time we encounter them at the border. Uh the numbers of known or suspected terrorists um encountered at the northern and southern border have dropped, um thanks to the securitization of the southern border and thanks to the presence

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:03:01 – 1:03:03

At last year's oversight hearing,

Kash Patel (Witness)1:03:04 – 1:03:04

Mm. Mm.

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:03:04 – 1:03:41

I raised concerns about FBI files being hidden in what's called prohibited access. and restrict restricted excess cases you noted last year that you'd produce records found in these types of cases which you have done uh good job of um please update the committee on the steps you've taken to ensure these types of records are discoverable and that records can't be hidden from congress from the courts or from the american people under uh under freedom of information act

Kash Patel (Witness)1:03:42 – 1:04:27

prohibitive cases mr. chairman were created just for that purpose to evade transparency to evade promulgation of fbi records that should be made available under and constitutional oversight so we simply did the following i eliminated prohibited cases there are no more prohibited cases at the fbi because we worked together not only with our inter-agency partners but the legislative branch to inform the american public when the law allows it to produce records so that you can conduct constitutional oversight so prohibited cases no longer exist those that were classified prohibited that writ label has been removed that compartmentation has been completely disbanded and now we will work with your committee to continue producing records for what used to be called prohibitive cases for the sole purpose of keeping things a secret

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:04:28 – 1:05:14

as i brought up in my opening statement i have concerns about how round river records were stored managed and classified round river was the operation that shutdown certain government sources regarding the biden family with apparently no justification for example some records included banner markings with round river as a classification code that is highly unusual if not outright improper that you could have a round river classification What steps have you taken to investigate any improper classification of Round River records, and hold people accountable?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:05:15 – 1:05:52

Thanks to your referral, Mister Chairman, and shedding light on this, we looked at the classification processes surrounding this quote unquote creation of a compartment called Round River. We discovered that um there was no FBI policy to substantiate such a classification, and that in fact it was basically made up. So now, working with you and your staff, we are committed to continue to produce on top of the nearly two thousand pages of documents on Round River that we've already produced, we will continue to produce documents around that. And also we are conducting an internal investigation through inspection division on the individuals who launched and codified this false and fake compartment.

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:05:53 – 1:06:36

OK. According to an August twenty twenty six Justice Department Inspector General report, fbi officials during ray's tenure retaliated against an fbi employee named jacob mercer these fbi officials are still employed at your nomination hearing you committed to ensuring whistleblowers are protected from retaliation what steps has the fbi taken to hold the retaliators accountable for their violation of law And if nothing's been done, will you commit to updating the committee on accountability measures?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:06:36 – 1:06:44

That is in the middle of an internal investigation, and as soon as I'm able to update the committee. Um, after working with our Department of Justice partners, I will do so.

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:06:45 – 1:06:48

Uh, so you can't comment further. Is that what you

Kash Patel (Witness)1:06:48 – 1:06:49

Not at this time, sir.

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:06:49 – 1:07:40

OK. Uh. The Safer Skies Act. granted long overdue authority to state and local law enforcement agencies to protect their communities from malicious drones as of july first the fbi had certified forty six eligible agencies to conduct drone mitigation uh training a maximum of sixteen officers per month we can't get our law enforcement agencies certified to use these um authority is fast enough what is the fbi doing to expand and expedite this counter drone training capacity for eligible state and local law enforcement agencies

Kash Patel (Witness)1:07:40 – 1:08:26

as you highlighted mr. chairman our state and local partners are critical to combat the counter drone mission set but the federal government provided no training or access at any level so the fbi under my leadership stood up the first ever counter uas school it's called in cutsy down at redstone arsenal in huntsville alabama where trained hundreds of law enforcement officers. That is a two-week class that goes continuously. We only pause it for the World Cup so that we could have all our counter UAX experts in the field. And what we've asked for Congress is increased funding so that we can triple the size of that school, allowing more state and local officers to come in and work with us, and deploy them like we did during the World Cup on our ground intercept teams to cover down on eleven separate venues, and take down seven hundred and fifty drones. We need more equipment, more tech, And we also need more bodies trained, so we need more money for that.

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:08:26 – 1:09:07

Uh, for almost a decade, i've exposed political weaponization during crossfire hurricane. And, you have as well. President Trump issued an executive order in each of his administration. Uh, adm- uh, mandating declassification of crossfire hurricane records. Please describe the steps. you taken to ensure full declassification and whether other agencies like the ca cia have uh created robot roadblocks for this declassification this is my last question

Kash Patel (Witness)1:09:06 – 1:09:32

so the crossfire hurricane um declassification at the fbi at least what's under my control mr. chairman has been fully declassified there is some information in there that i do not control because we do not own it And we have vigorously worked with our intelligence community partners to declassify that. We've produced the largest amount of of crossfire hurricane documentation to the Congress ever. And we're gonna continue. Sorry. And we're gonna continue to do that, Mr. Chairman.

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:09:33 – 1:09:35

OK. Thanks, Senator Gerbeck.

Sen. Durbin (IL)1:09:35 – 1:11:55

Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Mr. Patel, one year ago my home state of Illinois was experiencing the beginning of a ruthless, reckless, deadly campaign, orchestrated by this administration known as Midway Blitz. masked federal agents armed with military grade weapons and unmarked vehicles, descended on Chicago and other communities, bashing in car windows, indiscriminately rounding up people, excuse me, deploying chemical agents and shooting innocent people. A border patrol agent shot US citizen and Chicago native Marimore Martinez five times after side-swiping her vehicle. She survived. After Miss Martinez was shot, DHS branded her as a domestic terrorist. A Border Patrol agent bragged about shooting her. And an FBI agent falsely claimed she chased a Border Patrol agent before she was shot. Director Patel, after the shooting you took to social media, posted a video of a different collision that you said supported DHS. You said, quote, " Attack our law enforcement." And this FBI will find you and bring you to justice." DHS and FBI have since refused to correct the record. No charges filed against Miss Martinez, who was shot five times by these agents. In another event, an ICE agent shot and killed Silveira Villegas Gonzalez, shortly after he dropped his children off at school and daycare. Publicly released video footage and the ICE agent's own statement, contradict DHS claims that the ICE agent who shot him was quote "dragged a significant distance" and quote " feared for his life." In the past, the FBI would have swiftly responded to these shootings, gathering evidence and working with the Justice Department Civil Rights Division to conduct a civil rights investigation. But not now. This morning on your web site of the FBI is the following. The FBI is the primary federal agent C, responsible for investigating possible violations of federal civil rights statutes. Dir- Director Patel, why has the FBI refused to investigate either of these shootings?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:11:58 – 1:12:17

We have not refused to investigate either of these shootings. These investigations are currently ongoing, and so I'm unable to comment on the nature of them. We are not the only agency involved, since it involves multiple federal agencies, so we have to work with our federal and state and local partners to collect the information and allow the department of justice to make whatever decision they deem appropriate

Sen. Durbin (IL)1:12:17 – 1:12:22

you still stand behind the false statements you made in social media after miriam martinez was shot

Kash Patel (Witness)1:12:23 – 1:12:30

um i'm those false statements according to you are not false statements they're clipped together to make it sound like i lied and i didn't

Sen. Durbin (IL)1:12:31 – 1:12:41

well i can tell you that she's never been charged with a crime after being shot five times and turning over the video for your approval and review as well as other agencies

Kash Patel (Witness)1:12:41 – 1:12:43

you want her to be charged for being shot

Sen. Durbin (IL)1:12:41 – 1:12:44

of course do you

Kash Patel (Witness)1:12:45 – 1:12:48

that's what you just said i'm not gonna charge someone for being shot

Sen. Durbin (IL)1:12:46 – 1:12:52

well let me tell you let me quote what you said attack our law enforcement and the FBI will find you and bring you to justice

Kash Patel (Witness)1:12:52 – 1:12:53

yes

Sen. Durbin (IL)1:12:53 – 1:12:56

were you bringing her to justice by shooting her five times

Kash Patel (Witness)1:12:56 – 1:12:57

we didn't shoot her

Sen. Durbin (IL)1:12:58 – 1:13:50

the federal government did and you're responsible for determining whether there's any violation of civil rights statutes and you refused to do so unfortunately giving a blank slate to these agents is not an encouragement for good conduct, and you know that as well as i do. Let me ask you on a separate question. According to a memo issued this June, the FBI has lowered its hiring standards by dropping automatic disqualification for applicants who have stolen from prior employees, paid for sex, are engaged in bestiality. In July, you claim the FBI is " losing too many qualified candidates", to the rigors of requirements from yesteryear. Director Patel, do you believe those who have previously stolen from employee, employers, solicited sex, or engaged in bestiality, are qualified candidates that the FBI is losing?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:13:52 – 1:14:05

Thank you for bringing this up so we can get to the truth of the matter. What we did was, we did not wanna punish victims of bestiality, victims who were trafficked. We did want, not wanna make it an automatic disqualification for the

Sen. Durbin (IL)1:14:31 – 1:14:32

It isn't.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:14:33 – 1:14:38

Uh. we are not going to target victims and prevent them from serving in their capacity to serve this country,

Sen. Durbin (IL)1:14:38 – 1:14:39

Listen to this.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:14:38 – 1:14:42

who may be most motivated to serve our LTI workforce.

Sen. Durbin (IL)1:14:40 – 1:14:49

Listen to this. He's no longer protecting those who've been charged with bestiality. He's protecting those who are victims. Just turned it upside down.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:14:49 – 1:14:49

No, you did.

Sen. Durbin (IL)1:14:49 – 1:14:51

I caught that. No, they did, sir.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:14:50 – 1:14:51

You actually did, because you lied.

Sen. Durbin (IL)1:14:51 – 1:15:04

No, I can just tell you I, what I'm reading to you is you dropped automatic disqualification for applicants who have been engaged in bestiality. Not victims of bestiality, applicants who have engaged. Do you disagree with that?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:15:04 – 1:15:27

Applicants who've engaged in bestiality means they were victims of bestiality because they were forced to do so. And at this FBI, we are not going to criminalize and prevent victims from serving the United States of America and the premier law enforcement agency in the world. They did that before. I eliminated the bureaucracy that prevented these great Americans from serving or at least being considered from serving, and I'm gonna continue to do that.

Sen. Durbin (IL)1:15:27 – 1:15:33

Turned it upside down. So on the Epstein files, do you believe the files contain no meaningful evidence of additional

Kash Patel (Witness)1:15:37 – 1:16:06

the epstein files three and a half million pages have been released by this administration by the prior administration zero pages were released this department of justice has investigated those files and we have encouraged individuals to continuously come forward with credible information we will always investigate victims of human trafficking as you've seen by the fact that we have arrested over five thousand child predators and human traffickers which is the largest number in an eighteen month span So if you wanna keep talking about the Epstein files, go ahead. This FBI will always investigate individuals as we have done.

Sen. Durbin (IL)1:16:06 – 1:16:29

So you just missed one important point. You may remember it. Congress had to pass a law requiring the disclosure of the Epstein files. We had to wait until a woman was elected to Congress that gave us the necessary votes in the House to discharge the bill and force a vote in the House, on the release of the Epstein files. This was not volunteered by the Trump administration. It took a law. to force them to do it.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:16:29 – 1:16:31

You could have passed that law in the Biden administration,

Sen. Durbin (IL)1:16:30 – 1:16:32

And we'll Yeah, sure.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:16:31 – 1:16:32

you didn't.

Sen. Durbin (IL)1:16:32 – 1:16:37

Well, let me tell you, you could have come you could have come up with a better explanation than that,

Kash Patel (Witness)1:16:34 – 1:16:35

We had both majorities then.

Sen. Durbin (IL)1:16:37 – 1:17:26

that's for sure. Let me ask you about a specific case of corruption since you've made some statements about fraud and corruption. You've touted the Trump administration and FBI success in cracking down on fraud and corruption. At a press conference in June you stated you should take a look at what leadership from the White House and President Trump's prioritization, to go after in combat fraud looks like. Fraud is no longer being tolerated, it's not being put up with. Recent reports, Mister Patel, have revealed that Corey Lewandowski, while he was at the Department of Homeland Security, approached senior officials from Qatar and UAE, offering to represent them on the side in issues that fell under DHS purview. Director Patel, was the FBI aware of Corey Lewandowski's effort to sell access to government services for personal gain before this report was published?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:17:26 – 1:17:38

Not as far as i'm aware, and as to your work on fraud that we are doing, we are the first FBI to capture the six most wanted fraudsters in just three months. Over two billion dollars worth of fraud in Americans was taken from us.

Sen. Durbin (IL)1:17:37 – 1:17:42

Let's go back to my question. Has the FBI initiated any investigation into these

Kash Patel (Witness)1:17:39 – 1:17:39

And

Sen. Durbin (IL)1:17:42 – 1:17:45

allegations regarding mister Lewandowski?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:17:45 – 1:17:48

I would refer you to DHS. He was a DHS employee.

Sen. Durbin (IL)1:17:49 – 1:17:54

So the FBI, you can't say that the FBI has invested any investigation into this allegation?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:17:54 – 1:17:55

I'm not gonna comment on that.

Sen. Durbin (IL)1:17:55 – 1:17:58

uh i can understand that i yield mr. chairman

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:17:58 – 1:18:07

uh for the benefit of people who who wonder when we're gonna call on a on a republican side it'll be kennedy

Sen. Welch (VT)1:18:07 – 1:18:08

ok thank you chair

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:18:08 – 1:18:19

yeah kennedy blackburn schmidt and then it'll be on the democrat side the first three will be white house klobuchar blumenthal senator kennedy

Sen. Welch (VT)1:18:20 – 1:18:21

thank you

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:18:24 – 1:19:01

thank you uh mister chairman uh mister director i've i've got a couple of questions here we have i'm and i'm really trying to understand cause i listened to the to the uh exchange between you and and uh senator durbin and i and i've read a few news accounts and i'm confused the fbi has qualifications to uh to be an fbi agent is that correct

Kash Patel (Witness)1:19:01 – 1:19:03

yes we've increased those qualifications and standards

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:19:03 – 1:19:04

pull that mike closer to you

Kash Patel (Witness)1:19:04 – 1:19:07

we've increased the standards and qualifications

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:19:07 – 1:19:09

ok but you have qualifications

Kash Patel (Witness)1:19:09 – 1:19:09

yes sir

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:19:10 – 1:19:14

now you recently changed them is that right

Kash Patel (Witness)1:19:14 – 1:19:14

some of them

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:19:15 – 1:19:15

some of them

Kash Patel (Witness)1:19:15 – 1:19:16

mmm

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:19:16 – 1:19:17

and why did you do that

Kash Patel (Witness)1:19:17 – 1:19:40

we changed the bureaucracy because when you first applied to the fbi this is most important example i can give any position special agent intel analyst support staff you had to wait one hundred days because of bureaucratic waste before the fbi contacted you again and what that meant was people who wanted to be employed by the fbi were finding jobs with other law enforcement agencies because they couldn't afford to wait around anymore

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:19:40 – 1:19:41

ok so you gonna do it quicker

Kash Patel (Witness)1:19:42 – 1:19:42

yeah

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:19:42 – 1:19:52

ok what what about the the actual substantive qualifications that have been reported. What changes did you make there?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:19:53 – 1:19:56

We require you to do a pull-up if you wanna be an FBI agent.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:19:53 – 1:19:59

OK. Understand. But you know what I'm getting at.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:19:59 – 1:19:59

Mm-hmm.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:19:59 – 1:20:13

OK, I'm trying to understand this cash. Um. Before the FBI made these changes, there were certain things that disqualified you from being an FBI agent.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:20:13 – 1:20:13

Mm-hmm.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:20:14 – 1:20:28

And you, not you, but the the agency said uh we're no longer going to allow these things this behavior to disqualify you what were what were the things you changed

Kash Patel (Witness)1:20:29 – 1:20:38

simply that if you were a victim of some of these vicious crimes and you wanted to serve this country the FBI is now for the first time ever considering your application and not disqualifying you

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:20:37 – 1:20:41

ok victim of what give me the example

Kash Patel (Witness)1:20:41 – 1:20:45

prostitution bestiality crimes like that traffickers

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:20:44 – 1:20:58

ok so if you were it's not if you if you frequented a prostitute, it's if you were a prostitute?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:20:58 – 1:21:00

if you were yes the victim forced into it

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:21:01 – 1:21:09

OK. Um what what what what about the bestiality?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:21:11 – 1:21:19

same thing because the regs wrote it up in a fashion before i arrived that a dress prostitution bestiality and trafficking they were there before i got there they

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:21:19 – 1:21:22

yeah but tell tell me what it said before

Kash Patel (Witness)1:21:19 – 1:21:31

automatically it it automatically disqualified any individual who participated on either side of it obviously we are never going to hire the criminal to engage

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:21:30 – 1:21:32

this side of what the bestiality

Kash Patel (Witness)1:21:32 – 1:21:32

yes

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:21:32 – 1:21:34

so you disqualified the animal

Kash Patel (Witness)1:21:37 – 1:21:40

well i don't think we we have great canines but we're not gonna disqualify

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:21:40 – 1:22:40

i understand i i'm trying to understand why you did this have you i'm this is not directed at you mister director and and and i i i understand the game people try to make you look bad uh we do the same thing when when the other party is in office and all this stuff has really hurt the fbi it's really hurt the fbi so i'm trying to get to the bottom of this why would you why would you in light of the of the context and and what we're going through and we're having a tough time attracting agents good quality agents we all can trust because so many people fairly or unfairly think that in order to be an f. b. a. f. b. i. agent now your political point of view matters why would you even get into bestiality

Kash Patel (Witness)1:22:42 – 1:22:46

we we are not into bestiality but a lot of these individuals

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:22:45 – 1:22:49

i know you're not but you changed you you you changed the

Kash Patel (Witness)1:22:48 – 1:22:50

but i'm trying to explain it hang on

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:22:50 – 1:22:55

you changed the qualifications and mentioned bestiality if if if joe

Kash Patel (Witness)1:22:52 – 1:22:54

so i'd i'd

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:22:55 – 1:23:05

if joe participated in bestiality not as the animal but as the human don't you think he ought to be qualified disqualified

Kash Patel (Witness)1:23:06 – 1:23:09

if he voluntarily did it sure but if he was trafficked into it then it should be considered

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:23:08 – 1:23:10

ok how do you involuntarily

Kash Patel (Witness)1:23:12 – 1:23:30

in a lot of these cases when human traffickers who are some of the worst individuals on planet earth, they don't just traffic you for prostitution, they traffic you for degrading acts of all kind, and they force you into that type of conduct. And some of these individuals would go on to be law enforcement officers who qualified to be law enforcement officers and later applied to the FBI.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:23:30 – 1:23:35

I mean this this didn't this the these changes didn't start with you, did they?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:23:34 – 1:23:35

No, no.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:23:35 – 1:23:37

Somebody came to you and recommended

Kash Patel (Witness)1:23:37 – 1:23:37

Yeah.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:23:37 – 1:23:54

Yeah. And when you saw bestiality, I say this with respect, the person who recommended it, why didn't you just say what planet did you parachute in from? Why do why do I wanna lead with

Kash Patel (Witness)1:23:54 – 1:23:55

Well, that was my initial response.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:23:55 – 1:23:58

why do I wanna lead with my chin and get into bestiality?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:23:59 – 1:24:12

That was my initial response, Senator. But they then explained to me and showed me cases in which people were forced into it, and had applied to the FBI. And so I thought, They should be considered. It's not an automatic disqualification. That's all.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:24:12 – 1:24:27

OK. Alright, I think I understand. But you're not telling us today that if a human being had sex with an animal that they can still be in FBI age.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:24:27 – 1:24:27

No.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:24:27 – 1:24:27

Are you?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:24:28 – 1:24:28

No.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:24:28 – 1:24:29

They can't be, can they?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:24:29 – 1:24:30

They cannot.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:24:30 – 1:24:32

In fact, they ought to be in jail, right?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:24:32 – 1:24:33

They all are.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:24:34 – 1:24:56

Yeah, well, OK. um don't you think no i don't wanna lead you yeah i do don't you think we ought to get rid of this this concept of special purpose employee

Kash Patel (Witness)1:24:58 – 1:24:59

at the fbi

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:24:59 – 1:25:01

everywhere

Kash Patel (Witness)1:25:01 – 1:25:04

i can't speak for the rest of the government but i don't think the fbi has any

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:25:05 – 1:25:06

yeah but i want your opinion

Kash Patel (Witness)1:25:07 – 1:25:08

well i'm not

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:25:07 – 1:25:09

all you're doing is inviting trouble

Kash Patel (Witness)1:25:10 – 1:25:12

my opinion for the fbi is we don't have them

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:25:13 – 1:25:16

would you have them do you think it's a good idea or bad idea

Kash Patel (Witness)1:25:17 – 1:25:21

i don't well when you refer to special purpose employee i don't know what you mean wouldn't you

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:25:21 – 1:25:33

i'm talking about somebody who is not a full-time federal employee but they're working for the people as a federal employee but they're not subject to the conflicts of interest rules

Kash Patel (Witness)1:25:33 – 1:25:35

Oh, we don't have any of those. Everybody that works at the FBI.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:25:35 – 1:25:37

Yeah, but we do through in the federal government, don't we?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:25:38 – 1:25:40

I can't speak for the other agents, sir.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:25:39 – 1:25:46

Sure we do. You've, and that's what happened over homeland security. Wha- wha- why would, why do we wanna do this?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:25:47 – 1:25:48

You'd have to talk

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:25:47 – 1:25:49

Why don't we just get rid of them?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:25:49 – 1:25:51

You'd have to talk to DHS. I can't speak for them.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:25:51 – 1:25:55

I'm a- talking to you. I want your opinion. You're the director of the FBI.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:25:55 – 1:25:59

I'm not able to give an opinion for the rest of the government, just how we operate at the FBI.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:25:59 – 1:26:13

Or or tell me final question, then I'll be yield back. No, I'm not. Um. Are are you involved, is the FBI involved in the investigations at Homeland Security?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:26:14 – 1:26:16

Which ones, sir? Sorry.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:26:15 – 1:26:21

The ones with respect to um any alleged misconduct at senior levels?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:26:22 – 1:26:26

If it's referred to us by DHS and it comes to the department, then yes.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:26:27 – 1:26:28

But how are you involved?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:26:28 – 1:26:34

We're involved. They always reach out and ask for our and collecting information and evidence and so we participate

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:26:34 – 1:26:42

ok alright tell me about this the the the uh agent gardena is that how you say his name

Kash Patel (Witness)1:26:42 – 1:26:43

yes sir

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:26:43 – 1:26:46

who is he is he there is he gone

Kash Patel (Witness)1:26:47 – 1:26:49

all i can say on that is he

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:26:47 – 1:26:50

what are the what are the allegations with respect to him

Kash Patel (Witness)1:26:51 – 1:26:58

he's no longer there and it's has been publicly reported an ongoing investigation so i really can't comment on any of those details

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:26:57 – 1:27:03

ok what does he do Why why why is he no longer there? Is he fired?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:27:02 – 1:27:06

He vi- he violated the FBI standards and code of conduct.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:27:07 – 1:27:07

So you fired him.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:27:08 – 1:27:08

Yes.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:27:08 – 1:27:11

Okay. And he's being investigated.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:27:12 – 1:27:13

Per public reporting.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:27:13 – 1:27:14

Sir?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:27:14 – 1:27:16

Per public reporting, I can tell you he's

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:27:15 – 1:27:17

You can't tell me, you can't talk about it.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:27:16 – 1:27:17

Yeah.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:27:18 – 1:27:20

You'd have to drown me in the Pacific if you told me.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:27:20 – 1:27:22

I would never do that, Senator.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:27:21 – 1:27:26

I understand. Okay, I got it. Um, but it is being addressed.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:27:26 – 1:27:27

Yes, sir.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:27:27 – 1:27:30

Okay. I I yield back, Mister Chairman.

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:27:30 – 1:28:25

Thank you, Senator Gagne. Now, Senator Whitehouse. Welcome, Director Patel. Um, we have a recurring topic about your uh, grand jury testimony. Um, and to this date we still don't have um, either a transcript of or a description by you of your a grand jury testimony. Um. Let me ask you with respect to that grand jury testimony. Was there ever a court order preventing you from divulging your own testimony, as is every grand jury witnesses' Right.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:28:26 – 1:28:31

I don't believe there was a court order, but the investigation at the time was ongoing.

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:28:33 – 1:28:56

Um, OK, so no, uh, court order. Was your right to disclose your own testimony ever limited by the Department of Justice either sealing your testimony or instructing you not to provide it.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:28:57 – 1:28:59

I don't know. You'd have to ask the Department of Justice.

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:28:59 – 1:29:17

Well. How would the Department of Justice instruct you not to exercise your right to divulge your own grand jury testimony without you knowing about it?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:29:17 – 1:29:24

Whether it's my grand jury testimony or anyone else's, that's up to the individual whether they want to or don't want to,

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:29:24 – 1:29:25

Correct, and you said,

Kash Patel (Witness)1:29:24 – 1:29:25

pursuant to,

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:29:25 – 1:29:26

and you said that you,

Kash Patel (Witness)1:29:26 – 1:29:26

on.

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:29:26 – 1:29:31

you've said that you did want to, so we're over the hurdle of whether you wanted to or not.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:29:30 – 1:29:30

Yep.

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:29:31 – 1:29:33

You've actually testified

Kash Patel (Witness)1:29:33 – 1:29:33

Yep.

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:29:33 – 1:29:48

to that fact. So, then the next question is, were you inhibited from doing what you wanted to do, and disclosing your own grand jury testimony, by any order of the Department of Justice?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:29:48 – 1:29:49

Not that I'm aware of.

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:29:49 – 1:30:07

OK. Alright. Um, let's, and you're aware that to this date you still have not disclosed a summary of your testimony or a transcript of your testimony or uh, given us any information about your actual grand jury testimony.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:30:07 – 1:30:12

But as I've said, the courts can provide that transcript. I've said they should.

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:30:12 – 1:30:14

You actually are the one who can provide the

Kash Patel (Witness)1:30:15 – 1:30:15

Not the transcript.

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:30:15 – 1:30:16

description.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:30:17 – 1:30:27

Well, that that testimony occurred, what, four years ago? So, the the transcript is the best evidence of that information, and the courts and any American can go plead to the court for release of that transcript.

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:30:27 – 1:30:33

Yeah, and you can also describe your testimony, and you have so far not done so, correct?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:30:34 – 1:30:35

Four years later? No.

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:30:35 – 1:30:38

Ever? Like, from then until now?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:30:39 – 1:30:44

Yeah, the the the transcript is the best evidence of that information. So the transcript should say that.

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:30:44 – 1:31:05

So, Um, let's change to um Jeffrey Epstein. Um, with considerable effort by uh ranking member Wyden on the finance committee, um, a bevy of suspicious activity reports

Kash Patel (Witness)1:31:05 – 1:31:05

Uh-huh.

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:31:06 – 1:31:21

um, were brought to everyone's attention. Those suspicious activity reports related to financial transactions with accounts associated with Jeffrey Epstein,

Kash Patel (Witness)1:31:21 – 1:31:21

Uh-huh.

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:31:22 – 1:32:31

um, in some cases with banks, Russian banks that have since, um, been put under various restrictions, and in some cases, uh, dealing with old Soviet countries and Russia itself. Now, you have Epstein associated accounts. You have transactions um that relate to sanctioned banks. Um you have the reason that these were suspicious activity reports being denominated as danger of money laundering, danger of trafficking. So, and by the way, their headline is suspicious activity reports, which I think is a pretty good clue that there could be suspicious activity in there. Um, has there been any investigation by the FBI into those Epstein related suspicious activity reports?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:32:32 – 1:32:48

So the SARS that you're referring to are a tool in which the Treasury Department initiates an investigation based on information by the banking system. And so any suspicious activity reports go first to the United States Treasury, and if there's something that they find, they refer it to us.

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:32:48 – 1:32:49

So there's been no referral?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:32:50 – 1:32:52

I'll have to go back and check.

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:32:52 – 1:32:56

And the FBI can't look into suspicious activity reports on its own?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:32:57 – 1:32:59

It's the province of the Treasury Department first.

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:32:59 – 1:33:17

First. But if they don't move for whatever reason, when you have Epstein suspicious activity reports that are reported to actually even relate to trafficking of girls. Um, shouldn't that be enough to get the FBI to follow up on that?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:33:17 – 1:33:21

We'll follow up on any credible information, as I've said, since day one on Epstein.

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:33:20 – 1:33:24

But you didn't with respect to these suspicious activity reports, correct?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:33:24 – 1:33:26

Saying I didn't, I'm saying I'd have to check and get back to you.

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:33:26 – 1:33:49

OK. Well, Mister Chairman, we went like zero for answers from the FBI for our questions for the record from a year ago. So, uh, I hope that if since the witness is now here under oath, said that he's willing to get back to me on that. I hope that, uh, I can have the chairman's support in getting answers when we ask that as a question, for the record.

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:33:49 – 1:33:50

Please get back to him on that.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:33:51 – 1:33:51

Yes, sir.

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:33:51 – 1:34:50

Um, so also, uh, related to Epstein, we have uh, law enforcement authorities in Poland, Norway, and Latvia who, uh, have said that the department has not responded to requests for Epstein related information in their investigations into Jeffrey Epstein and his network. And there's public reporting from the United Kingdom that they too have not been provided requested uh information. This tends to go through your league apps, and I would assume that the FBI was involved in processing those requests for Epstein information, what is the status of those requests, and why has the FBI not yet provided the requested Epstein information to your uh law enforcement coordinates in those four countries?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:34:50 – 1:35:09

Well, as you said, it's a request to the Department of Justice, so they can comment on the status of it. If we assisted in any request for information, like we do all the time with our European partners, we produce relevant information that we are lawfully allowed to give. turn it over to the department to hand over to our partners i don't know the status of each individual case

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:35:08 – 1:35:22

and um have you do you know whether any information has been provided to these four countries law enforcement operations related to jerry epstein

Kash Patel (Witness)1:35:21 – 1:35:27

i'm not familiar with the four countries you're talking about what law enforcement they're talking about but we always and routinely provide information

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:35:29 – 1:35:59

um well i guess we'll have to follow-up on that. Um, I had thought that investigations related to Jeffrey Epstein would be enough of a priority that when other sovereign nations ask you for Epstein-related information, and there's public reporting that you've failed to comply with their requests, that that would be something you would know about, and not be caught by surprise by in a

Kash Patel (Witness)1:35:59 – 1:36:00

Well, I'm not sure what public

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:35:59 – 1:36:00

traditional

Kash Patel (Witness)1:36:01 – 1:36:03

you're talking about but public reporting generally is inaccurate.

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:36:04 – 1:36:11

Well, this is uh authorities in Poland, Norway and Latvia specifically. It's not just the public reporting.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:36:12 – 1:36:13

Well, let's try.

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:36:12 – 1:37:41

Well, let's try something else then. Let's try um the remaining pages of the FBI documents that have not yet been provided pursuant to the Epstein disclosure law. As you'll recall, the travel of this was that a woman testified to FBI agents that she had been both sexually and physically assaulted by Donald Trump around the ages of fourteen to fifteen. There were FBI three O twos that resulted from those, um, investigations from those interviews. Um, in the first call, the only three O twos that were released were the ones that did not mention Donald Trump. When the department was caught having held back the other ones, I think because bait stamps revealed their existence, the department then coughed up the three O two's that did mention Donald Trump. But we still have thirty-seven undisclosed pages that seem to be the contemporaneous FBI notes that would have formed the basis for the three O two summaries. Am I accurate in suggesting that those thirty-seven pages likely include the FBI contemporaneous notes from that interview, from those interviews?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:37:43 – 1:38:06

We have complied with the statute and the court orders, and produced three and a half million pages of documents for the first time ever. Investigators looked at the information in real time and the prior investig- and the prior administration made the determinations on referrals for prosecution and not. we've also repeatedly stated if there's new information we want everyone to come forward so that we can analyze that information as to what is and isn't remaining

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:38:06 – 1:38:08

so what are those thirty seven pages

Kash Patel (Witness)1:38:07 – 1:38:15

we have i don't know what you're referencing we've produced three and a half million pages and we will continue to comply with it

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:38:14 – 1:38:15

yeah but not these thirty seven

Kash Patel (Witness)1:38:16 – 1:38:17

you say there's thirty seven pages

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:38:17 – 1:38:18

my time has expired

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:38:18 – 1:38:19

thank you chairman

Kash Patel (Witness)1:38:26 – 1:38:29

my democrat colleagues indeed were putting out the

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:38:30 – 1:39:25

doj alleged lack of transparency in the epstein matter yet when i raised concerns about the biden administration about the fbi's mishandling of sexual misconduct by fbi agents my democratic colleagues largely stayed quiet moreover my democratic colleagues did raise a finger to investigate hundred biden's potential violation of the man act regarding sex track trafficking. Without objection, I'd introduce into the record a hundred and fifty pages of Hunter Biden's text messages showing those potential violations of the law so I wanna make very clear my democratic colleagues can't have it both ways for political convenience. The fact is the administration has made more Epstein records public than anyone. Senator Blackburn.

Sen. Graham (SC)1:39:25 – 1:42:34

Thank you, Mister Chairman, and indeed our democratic colleagues do try to have it both ways, whether it is on Epstein or comments about safety in the country. And last year we had a hearing with you, um, Director, where one of our democratic colleagues railed about how you were making the country less safe. And I just want to refute that. Because we can point to what you and the Memphis Safe Task Force have done in Memphis, Tennessee, that is making Memphis and Tennessee and indeed the entire country safer. Now, we're coming up on one year of the Memphis Safe Task Force, and every day I get a report from the task force and it shows where we are year to date. As you will see from this, we have had right at thirteen thousand arrests. We have apprehended over fourteen hundred known gang members. They are off the streets. They are locked up. They are being prosecuted. There are over twenty-one hundred illegal firearms. that have been recovered and removed from the streets. And thank goodness you and the task force have located a hundred and eighty-nine missing children that were being held there in Memphis. Now, these are not individuals that are guilty of lesser crimes. In the, uh, twenty-nine arrests that were made just yesterday, here are some of the crimes. Criminally negligent homicide. First degree murder. Prohibited weapon machine gun. Possession of a firearm while in possession of marijuana. And unlawful possession of a weapon. This is all in a day's good work. for the thirty federal agencies that are on the ground there working as a team, delivering for Memphians and through their work and through your leadership, they have cut the crime rate in Memphis in half. Now, some of my colleagues may want to refute this, but the stats prove the point. The country is safer. Memphis is the model. Memphians are grateful. I hear from them every day. So, Director, I would love for you to talk for just a moment about where we are with the task force, and where we go with this.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:42:35 – 1:43:57

Thank you, Senator. As you recall, um, I was educated by you and your colleagues in Tennessee during the confirmation process that Memphis had the highest per capita homicide rate in the country. And I said if we were, if I was confirmed we would do something about that. And the president stood up his task force, both in Washington DC and Memphis, but the FBI led the efforts, uh, prior to that and during the, uh, task force through operation viper. And what we did, and operation viper by the way is deployed across at least twenty five major cities across the country. It is our violent crime initiative task force that goes into these urban environments, and seeks out ground level intelligence to work up title threes and search warrants, to not just go in and do visible, surveillance and visible operations but we build a systematic campaign to collect intelligence and drive out the actual root causes of the crime of gang warfare which was the problem plaguing memphis and the problem plaguing localized um cities across america we were able to apprehend not just the gang bangers and their firearms we were able like we did in pennsylvania and philadelphia in the waymond street gang we literally uprooted an entire city block and eliminated that entire street gang. We used that same concept in Memphis and we're gonna continue to do that, to move guns at rapid rates, to find children that were missing for years, and also, most importantly, to reduce the homicide rate and return Memphis to the great city that it was.

Sen. Graham (SC)1:43:58 – 1:44:01

And across the country, how many children have you found,

Kash Patel (Witness)1:44:01 – 1:44:04

Eleven thousand one hundred in the last eighteen months.

Sen. Graham (SC)1:44:02 – 1:44:02

touched on?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:44:04 – 1:44:05

That's in twenty.

Sen. Graham (SC)1:44:04 – 1:44:05

Say that again for me.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:44:06 – 1:44:09

Eleven thousand one hundred. It's a twenty-one percent increase.

Sen. Graham (SC)1:44:09 – 1:44:41

That's right. And I think under the Biden administration, we had north of three hundred thousand children that could not be found. I wanna talk a little bit more about that. The chairman talked about, uh, the Report Act that was signed into law earlier and, um, we also have the Safe Safe Cloud Storage Act that is following with that. And this deals with the work we have with Nik Mik that we are doing.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:44:39 – 1:44:40

Uh-huh.

Sen. Graham (SC)1:44:42 – 1:45:18

And the chairman talked about this and I think it is so important that we be able to safely store and transfer and process this CSAM so that we're able to investigate these heinous crimes. So a couple of things here. I want you to talk for a moment about the new processes your team has put in place and touch on how you're using AI. to drill down and help find these predators, perverts, um, groomers, and get them locked up.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:45:18 – 1:46:38

So it's a, it's an all encompassing effort. I've always said that the cyberspace is the space the adversary uses the most to commit its most violent crimes against America. And the adversary has no rules and no laws. In order for us to catch up to the adversary, the criminals, the terrorists, the gangbangers, we have to work with our private sector partners. We, for the first time at the FBI, have professionally partnered and officially partnered with more private sector individual companies in social media and AI, a six hundred percent increase in AI alone invested into the Bureau, on the admin side of the house, on the operational side of the house, to decrease the workload for our employees to sit there and work out the minutia of paperwork. Rather than being in the field, which is what we are doing, driving operations in the field through intelligence, And in order to do and deliver that intelligence, we can't have it sitting in a data rack. We have to have it triage. So we brought in AI. We, the US government, cannot build that AI infrastructure. Our partners have already built it. So under the law, we are making sure civil liberties are protected and utilizing the fact that this great information has been collected and sitting on the shelf and what we did was we put it in the field, we put intel analysts in the field, and we sent it to our SACs or fifty-six SACs across the country. You're in charge. You know your AORs better than anyone else. which is why you've seen the largest reduction in violent crime in American history.

Sen. Graham (SC)1:46:39 – 1:46:46

And utilization in of AI is part of the modernization process for your FBI systems, correct?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:46:46 – 1:46:49

Yes, to the tune of a six hundred and five percent increase since I had this seat.

Sen. Graham (SC)1:46:50 – 1:47:31

That is wonderful. Uh, Jack Smith is going to come before us later this month, and we've heard so much about weaponization of the the FBI. And of course, Americans saw this with Arctic frost and Crossfire hurricane, and uh, they saw it with conservatives that were targeted throughout the country, whether it had to do with schools and children or or pro-life issues. So walk me through what you have done, what steps you have taken to remove weaponization from the Bureau.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:47:32 – 1:48:15

so having been targeted myself by a weaponization of law enforcement we went after it internally because the fbi needs to be accountable to the american citizens and not just execute and enforce the law so we looked at every individual that was involved with things like the catholic memo or the intentional um malfeasance surrounding intelligence collection and intelligence production and made sure that those individuals no longer work at the fbi it's that simple if you participated in that sort of conduct we removed you and we continue to do that and in terms of criminal investigations that sprout from that you know i can only comment on what's been made public but there are a number of ongoing investigations regarding this illegal conduct

Sen. Graham (SC)1:48:17 – 1:49:19

um birthright tourism we know that there are about thirty three thousand births that we know of that are taking place uh, utilizing birthright tourism. And, um, I'm, I've got legislation. I'm working to try to give President Trump more tools to fight this. With the Ban Birthright Tourism, uh, Act, it would amend Immigration and Nationality Act and, uh, make it clear that any alien engaging in birthright tourism is inadmissible to the country, and if they're here, they are deportable. And I know that you have worked with DOJ on some, uh, issues around this. I think it is a heinous practice. It's got to come to an end. And I would like for you to touch on what you're doing to make certain that we end birthright tourism.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:49:20 – 1:49:44

We are following the federal statutes that we have books right now and we're working with our partners in congress to draft new legislation to give us new authorities to make sure that we can combat the threat because we want the united states of america to be open for legal immigration and not for illegal immigration and we're gonna continue to work to that end and work with our partners in congress we've asked them for more resources in legislation and we need some uh bolstering in that capacity

Sen. Graham (SC)1:49:45 – 1:49:46

thank you mister chairman

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:49:46 – 1:49:48

thank you senator klobuchar

Sen. Klobuchar (MN)1:49:48 – 1:52:01

thank you very much mister chairman Uh, Director Patel, uh, you and I were together at the National Law Enforcement Officers Memorialite Candle Candlelight Vigil in May along with law enforcement leaders and families of fallen officers uh to honor the lives and sacrifices of over three hundred sixty officers who died in the line of duty including three from my state. Our first responders put their lives on the line every day to keep their community safe. Earlier this month We saw the courage of the brave men and women of law enforcement. First hand police were on the scene within two minutes of receiving a nine one one call about shots fired in an apartment building, and help get people to hospitals and others to safety, uh, all while the officers being shot at themselves. Two Minnesotans were tragically killed, but it would have been a lot more. I know the FBI was also on the scene, and I want to thank the Minnesota FBI for their assistance, as well as the assistance and cooperation that they gave us um both statewide and federally with the horrific mass shooting at enunciation church of twenty some people as well as the murder of melissa and mark courtman as you know this was all in the last year and i also hope that we will see that kind of cooperation in the ongoing investigations of the killings of alex pretty and renee goode of the FBI agents and federal prosecutors in making sure that people who steal taxpayer money in Minnesota are held accountable. I strongly support, we've talked about this, the prosecution of fraud cases by the US Attorney's Office in Minnesota. As you know, I've been involved with this office for years and I've fought to ensure that the office had the resources to investigate the fraud and prosecute criminals to the fullest extent of the law. i discussed the importance of these investigations and prosecutions with attorneys general bondi and blanche as well as assistant attorney general for the national fraud division mcdonnell both in private as well as at public hearings and i hope i have your commitment to continue

Kash Patel (Witness)1:52:01 – 1:52:02

you do

Sen. Klobuchar (MN)1:52:02 – 1:52:33

providing resources for these investigations um could you talk about uh your commitment to continue in providing resources for the fraud investigations and give us some update. Uh, we know in Minnesota, uh, that we've had, um, I I over ninety-eight people and sixty convictions, uh, indicted, convicted, with more to come. Could you talk about the status, not just in Minnesota but across the country?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:52:33 – 1:54:00

Yes, Senator, and thanks for bearing through the rain in two years running at the uh Law Enforcement Memorial. Um, so there's two types of fraud that i wanna talk about real quick in minnesota specifically it's related to the feeding our futures program which uh racked up a fraud about a half billion dollars in value which is money that was sent from basically the federal government through the state governments through entities that were dispersed illegally um in minnesota and as you said we've indicted and charged about a hundred people and i think majority of them have been convicted the rest of that investigation is ongoing and we're gonna continue to root out that fraud in minnesota and that fraud is led by um you know the the the the president's uh anti-fraud task force and we were just in kansas city yesterday with the vice president doing another version of that highlighting the fact that the fbi had arrested six of the most wanted fraudsters in the world in last three months totaling over two billion in fraud they were on four separate continents we found them all and we returned them here to justice and we are now in the process of returning that money the second part of that real quick senator is the scam center fraud so the fbi has launched and i hosted the first ever scam center um symposium in Southeast Asia in the cross-border regions of Thailand Burma and Cambodia which no one really ever thinks about is the epicenter of the fraud that tens of thousands of Americans are facing and in the last eighteen months the FBI has read four joint operations overseas in the Middle East and in Southeast Asia where we've seized seventeen billion dollars in fraud

Sen. Klobuchar (MN)1:54:00 – 1:54:00

mmm

Kash Patel (Witness)1:54:00 – 1:54:40

crypto and cash and we've also through that's our operation blackout that is the premier law enforcement program leading the annihilation of scam centers. We go in there, we free the traffic workers, we collect evidence, and then we work with our partners to literally bulldoze those scam centers, so they can never be up again. And we suffocate their communications capability with the private sector by eliminating their access to the internet. And the last thing is, through operation Level Up, we're on the proactive side of fraud. So we have reached out to our communities and our partners and said, if you see something, if you are a target, let us know early. We've prevented one billion dollars in fraud from Americans before, they were victimized by these scam centers. We're gonna continue that work.

Sen. Klobuchar (MN)1:54:40 – 1:54:58

Um, thanks. Just quick, I've long supported efforts led by Senator Grassley to strengthen the False Claims Act, support the Justice Department's efforts to address whistleblower allegations. A quick answer of uh what role should whistleblowers, including key TAM cases, play in rooting up fraud in government programs?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:54:59 – 1:55:00

They're they're essential.

Sen. Klobuchar (MN)1:55:01 – 1:55:47

OK, thank you. Um, turning to the matter I referenced before, um, the killings of renee goode and alex preddy you know that renee goode's final words to the officers were i'm not mad at you and alex preddy a va intensive care nurse who did one of the most selfless jobs that anyone could think of uh his last words were to a woman who had um been shoved to the ground were are you ok alex preddy's parents uh have spoken out about wanting to get um meaningful information about the status of the investigation and i know the fbi takes pride in how it treats victims will you ensure that the bureau provides meaningful information to the families in these cases

Kash Patel (Witness)1:55:47 – 1:55:47

yes

Sen. Klobuchar (MN)1:55:48 – 1:56:11

ok and we have concerns about the bureau's actions after um of course both killings um but after renee good was killed according to reports the fdi fbi failed to process the car for evidence um do you agree that it is important for the bureau to conduct timely thorough investigations of officer involved shootings

Kash Patel (Witness)1:56:12 – 1:56:14

when we are the lead agency yes

Sen. Klobuchar (MN)1:56:15 – 1:56:39

alright and so the mmm with that answer it makes me sort of step back a little so is the lead agency then in your mind is gonna be the state and the locals for the renegoode and alex prettie shootings because again we're gonna have to have cooperation as we have in all of the instances i mentioned about enunciation, melissa and mark courtman's killing and others.

Kash Patel (Witness)1:56:40 – 1:56:48

we will fully support all those investigations, it doesn't matter if it's a state investigation, federal investigation, bureau investigation, d h s investigation, we're fully committed to support all of them.

Sen. Klobuchar (MN)1:56:48 – 1:57:07

ok uh i have uh great concerns regarding the president's use of the justice department, um when it comes to our democracy do you believe it is proper for the president to use the to influence any election or give an advantage uh to one party or another over another

Kash Patel (Witness)1:57:07 – 1:57:11

I don't believe any president should be doing that, and this president has not done that for the FBI.

Sen. Klobuchar (MN)1:57:11 – 1:57:56

OK, and since the civil war well the Justice Department manual, and I will say um um makes it very clear um that that is the case. But we are concerned because of some of the statements the President has made, and some of the actions that have been taken across the country. Since the civil war, federal law has made clear that the president does not have the authority to deploy armed federal officials to election sites. Are you aware of the Justice Department's long-standing guidance that states that FBI agents cannot conduct investigations inside polling places on election day and that federal prosecutors have no authority to send FBI special agents or deploy US Marshals to polling places?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:57:56 – 1:57:57

I'm aware.

Sen. Klobuchar (MN)1:57:58 – 1:58:05

And so will you commit to following clear federal law and DOJ policy and not deploy federal agents to polling places?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:58:05 – 1:58:07

We will always follow the law and the guidelines. And

Sen. Klobuchar (MN)1:58:07 – 1:58:46

O- OK. Um, during your time as FBI Director, the Bureau has investigated members of the media for activities related to newsgathering, such as reporting on government whistleblowers. According to reports in July, you personally oversaw an investigation in which subpoenas were issued to new york times journalist who reported about security deficiencies in the qatari donated air force one and armed officers were even sent to reporters homes these subpoenas were withdrawn because a federal judge found the justice department failed to follow its own rules about subpoenaing journalists is that correct

Kash Patel (Witness)1:58:47 – 1:58:56

i think that's an accurate summary but just real quick we're not targeting the journalists we're looking to find out who leaks sensitive and classified information as a government employee

Sen. Klobuchar (MN)1:58:57 – 1:59:16

OK, and I will note that the judge said, um, um, in his, in his ruling, he said subpoenas to reporters are not the first thing you do, they are the last thing you do. And so do you believe that subpoenaing reporters just twenty-four hours after the story was published, is that the last resort?

Kash Patel (Witness)1:59:17 – 1:59:26

Well, there's a lot of work that went into that, Kate, and it's still ongoing and so I'm not gonna comment on it, but we worked through all the hurdles that the guidelines require.

Sen. Klobuchar (MN)1:59:26 – 2:00:06

OK. Um, we'll follow up on that. Last uh in July, more than thirty municipal water systems in Minnesota were targeted in a coordinated cyber attack. It has been publicly reported that this was likely the work of Iranian hackers, as opposed to Minnesotans, which the president at one point um stated. This isn't the first time that a cyber attack has targeted municipal systems in Minnesota. Uh, last summer we had a cyber attack on the city of St. Paul. can you update us on the fbi's response to the recent cyber attack on at least a dozen states water systems including minnesota south dakota minichigan and arkansas

Kash Patel (Witness)2:00:06 – 2:01:19

yeah this is one of the most critical things that the fbi is doing in terms of our cyber operations so when the adversary attacks our critical infrastructure the fbi has asked and engaged with our partners to be in early and often just like we did with the five major banks last year we got in on friday we exfiltrated all the bad actors by sunday on the water system attack that you're talking about the problem is the deficiency in the private sector remember eighty five percent of the critical infrastructure in this country is owned by the private sector that they were using edge routers and plc devices that were twenty five years old and we've asked those companies to harden those devices because it's so easy for just one person on one keyboard in a far away land it doesn't even have to be a united effort uh to come in and break Senator Schleyer. Senator Schleyer.

Sen. Schmitt (MO)2:01:20 – 2:03:51

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, I wanna thank you, Director Patel, for um, for the outset, for your uh, redirection and uh, change of focus of the Bureau from, you know, the, the, the uh overt and historical weaponization we saw under the prior administration, to a real focus on law and order and putting the bad guys in jail. And a couple of questions I wanna ask you about that relate to that, specifically yesterday, you and I were both in my home state of Missouri and Kansas City. uh announcing a new effort on the on the uh um the efforts to crack down on fraud a lot of the covid era programs the money was rushed out the door with deadlines to spend it and what could go wrong uh there's a lot of uh lot of um fraudsters that took advantage of the american people and as as we said yesterday these are not victimless crimes i mean you have people who are working their tail off every day who've had their paychecks robbed so these fraudsters could uh could take money from from these programs and then people who need it most, people with disabilities, the elderly looking for a hospice center, I mean they're being uh taken advantage of here and making resources more scarce for their actual needs, what the programs were intended uh for. So I appreciate your efforts on that. I wanna ask you um, and by the way, before I forget, cuz I may run out of time, I wanna thank you again for your focus. When you and I first talked about your confirmation, we talked about St. Louis and and you've uh, you've kept your word. There's a lot of the largest infusion of permanent FBI agents per capita in the country. The results speak for themselves. I know those efforts continue, so I wanna thank you for your commitment and honor your word on that. Um, in June, I think this is fascinating. Uh, you launched the FBI's first ever most wanted fraudsters list. I wanna talk about that, um, for just a little bit. Because I think that, um, for whatever reason, this just wasn't a, a big focus before, and now that it is, and I think, um, Um, the results are are pretty compelling. I wanna start with um, Khalid Satari. Satari is a foreign national born in Gaza. He is charged in a scheme that allegedly billed uh, Medicare more than five hundred and seventy-four million dollars for medically unnecessary cancer genetic testing. Prosecutors say his operation used telemarketers, patient recruiters, and illegal kickbacks to generate tests that reimburse between ten thousand and twenty thousand each. Uh, he was released on bond. He fled the country. When authorities finally caught him overseas, he was carrying a fake Mexican passport under a fake name. Uh, where is, uh, Khalid now?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:03:52 – 2:03:53

He's in custody.

Sen. Schmitt (MO)2:03:53 – 2:04:29

OK, that's great. Saeed Abdul Lahai Arig, born in Somalia. He operated a grocery and deli in Minnesota. He allegedly took more than four point two million dollars from a federal program meant to feed children. His grocery store claimed to have served more than one point four million meals in about a year. The FBI says he allegedly used much of that money to fund his family's lavish lifestyle and transferred money to foreign accounts. He has been wanted since twenty twenty four. You put him on the most wanted fraudster list. Uh, he surrendered to law enforcement six days later. Is that correct?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:04:29 – 2:04:29

Yes, sir.

Sen. Schmitt (MO)2:04:29 – 2:04:31

OK. Where is he now?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:04:31 – 2:04:31

In prison.

Sen. Schmitt (MO)2:04:32 – 2:05:01

OK, that's great. Elaine Esko, the FBI lists her Nationality is Jamaican. She and her alleged co-conspirators submitted more than ninety fraudulent applications for COVID relief programs and allegedly obtained more than thirty-two million dollars fake tax documents fabricated bank accounts. In some cases, they allegedly demanded as much as half of the taxpayer money as their cut. She failed to appear in federal court and fled to Jamaica. Where is she now?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:05:01 – 2:05:01

In prison.

Sen. Schmitt (MO)2:05:04 – 2:05:35

Manjeet. Sig Bedi, born in India, a nationalized US citizen, he operated a grocery store that participated in Snap, a very important program. The allegation is pretty simple. Instead of selling people food, he swiped their benefit cards, handed them cash, and then half the taxpayer money for himself. He gets indicted. A judge ordered him to surrender his passport and remain in Washington State. Instead, he drives across the border into Canada and makes his way to India. The FBI put him on the most wanted fraudster list. Where is he now?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:05:35 – 2:05:36

In custody.

Sen. Schmitt (MO)2:05:38 – 2:06:05

And then there's Herb Kimball, born in Chicago, a city known for organized crime, historically of course, um, and the Cubs. I don't know which one is worse, um, Senator Durbin. But, uh, he pled guilty to his role in health care fraud, conspiracy involving one point two billion in Medicare charges. He then failed to show up for sentencing and fled to the Philippines. He put him on the most wanted fraudster list when it launched on June fourth. He was

Kash Patel (Witness)2:06:07 – 2:06:09

Yes, and he's uh in prison.

Sen. Schmitt (MO)2:06:09 – 2:06:10

He's in the United States.

Kash Patel (Witness)2:06:10 – 2:06:10

Yep.

Sen. Schmitt (MO)2:06:11 – 2:06:30

So I just, I just wanna take stock of that. Um. This isn't um, like rocket science, it takes resources and it takes leadership, right? I mean you have to, you have to have a goal here, and if the goal is to go after people who have ripped off the American people, um, you can accomplish that.

Kash Patel (Witness)2:06:31 – 2:06:31

So I just.

Sen. Schmitt (MO)2:06:31 – 2:06:35

Can you just kinda walk me through the resources you have committed to this and what's next?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:06:35 – 2:08:09

so when we set out to target the worst of the worst the fbi has always historically had its fbi's most wanted top ten list and the reason we've all been able to capture all ten of the fbi's most wanted top ten in just eighteen months is the following it's what you alluded to our best partner is the american public our law enforcement teams are the best in the world but sometimes the american public has information that we don't have access to and that success on the top ten when i was having a discussion with the vice president can't we he said can't we replicate that on the fraudsters that are fleecing american seniors and our kids of money that they need so we launched pursuant to the vice president's idea the most wanted fraudsters list with the same motive behind it we need information on where these individuals are hiding out and we need information to piece together some of their cases so since june this is no small task we have captured and arrested and brought back to justice six of the most wanted fraudsters i think totaling two billion dollars in fraud across Medicare, SNAP, COVID-nineteen relief funds, PPA, and whatnot. They were on the run collectively for five thousand days on four separate continents, and each one of them has been arrested and ret- once in the pipeline to come back, we'll get him back shortly. But all are in custody and five of the six are here in the United States. And we got information when we publicized their fraud. When we publicized it to the American people, some of these victims came forward and said, I think I know where this individual may be, or have his last known location, and we were able to use that evidence, and arrest these individuals.

Sen. Schmitt (MO)2:08:09 – 2:09:17

Well, as, as the, chair of the Senate's anti-fraud task force, we wanna continue to work with you. If there's any additional tools, that are needed I think, uh, stiffer penalties should be codified, and I know that the um, the anti-fraud division that's being, um, led and it's a priority for this administration, uh, regardless of, of who is president twenty years from now, ten years from now, I think that's just an important thing, and uh hopefully something that, that we can um, all agree on regardless of of our political stripe. I wanna in the time remaining just talk about a couple of the things, cuz fraud doesn't just happen uh in Medicare, it doesn't just happen in Snap. It can happen in elections, non-profits, immigration, government programs, even our political system. Let me run through a couple areas. First, political fundraising. President Trump directed the Attorney General to investigate possible legal straw donor and foreign contributions through on-line fundraising platforms. The orders specified are s- uh, specifically cited concerns involving ActBlue, uh, including suspicious donations from foreign IP addresses using prepaid cards. Does FB, does the FBI has jurist, have jurisdiction to investigate illegal straw donations and foreign money entering American elections?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:09:17 – 2:09:19

We do and we have a lot ongoing.

Sen. Schmitt (MO)2:09:20 – 2:09:25

OK, I know you probably can't talk about those specific cases, but there are ongoing investigations. Is that true?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:09:25 – 2:09:25

Yes, sir.

Sen. Schmitt (MO)2:09:26 – 2:09:51

OK. Um. And um. If there is evidence, and again I don't want you to talk about anything specific, showing foreign money or straw donations entering American elections, uh can you commit that that, no matter, well you will follow that evidence no matter where it leads?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:09:51 – 2:09:51

We will, sir.

Sen. Schmitt (MO)2:09:52 – 2:10:14

Okay. I wanna talk with the minute and a half I have left about the Southern Poverty Law Center. A federal grand jury has charged the with wire fraud, false statements, and money laundering offenses. The government alleges that millions of dollars in donated funds were secretly routed through fictitious entities to individuals associated with extremist organization. The FBI investigated that case, correct?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:10:15 – 2:10:15

Yes, sir.

Sen. Schmitt (MO)2:10:15 – 2:10:30

OK. And this is not simply a dispute over politics or ideology. Um, this allegation is that donors were told one thing about where their money was going while the money was allegedly being used for something else. That is a fraud question, correct?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:10:30 – 2:10:30

Yes, sir.

Sen. Schmitt (MO)2:10:30 – 2:10:40

OK. And if the evidence establishes that individual officers or employees knowingly participated in a fraud scheme can those individuals be held, personally accountable?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:10:40 – 2:10:40

Yes, they can.

Sen. Schmitt (MO)2:10:40 – 2:10:43

OK. Is that investigation continuing?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:10:43 – 2:10:56

It's, it's very much ongoing. There's been multiple indictments alleging, as the indictments say, that the SPLC utilized uh, sources into uh, that they had hired to go into the very networks that they

Sen. Schmitt (MO)2:11:02 – 2:11:02

OK.

Sen. Grassley (IA)2:11:03 – 2:11:03

Mm-hmm.

Sen. Schmitt (MO)2:11:03 – 2:11:13

Well, listen, I wanna thank you again for your commitment to um taking on violent crime. It's paying uh dividends in in a great American city where I'm from, St. Louis, so I look forward to continuing to work with you on those things. Thanks.

Sen. Grassley (IA)2:11:14 – 2:11:57

Yeah. Uh, about twenty minutes ago, one of my democratic colleagues brought up about uh uh these treasury s- activity reports about epstein and i've been using suspicious activity reports for a long time when senator johnson and i made public treasury research reports information on the biden family uh we were publicly criticized uh by uh the democrats uh so i'd like to say my colleagues can have it both ways and maintain your credibility. Senator uh Blumenthal.

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)2:11:58 – 2:12:53

Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Uh, thank you for being here today. Uh, Director Patel. We learned yesterday to the astonishment and shock of many Americans that a Russian oligarch bankrolled the wedding of the president's son with perhaps hundreds of thousands of dollars. i would like to know from you whether you have begun an investigation of potential intelligence compromises this individual umar kremlov has direct ties to vladimir putin it would seem an effort to curry favor with the president's family it may involve some intelligence degradation and i would like to know what steps you are taking to investigate

Kash Patel (Witness)2:12:54 – 2:13:09

i'm not sure what public reporting you're referring to the only thing i can tell you is that the counter espionage arrests by this fbi are up fifty three percent including from russia we've arrested more espionage actors in these last eighteen months than any eighteen month period in the fbi history and we'll continue to investigate

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)2:13:09 – 2:13:13

well these reports were public yesterday they've been widely

Kash Patel (Witness)2:13:09 – 2:13:11

and utilize the resources

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)2:13:14 – 2:13:56

publicized in the press and it would seem to me that they should be a topic of investigation for the fbi you have a counter intelligence mission this individual has been involved in fact in the re-education of ukrainian children in my trips to ukraine i've done it eleven times i've talked to many of those children who've been abducted by putin's forces this individual apparently is involved in those activities but also is directly tied to putin and i think there's a potential for compromise in intelligence and also the possibility of improper influence

Kash Patel (Witness)2:13:57 – 2:14:05

as i stated we are fulfilling our counterintelligence and espionage mission greater than any fbi has ever done so you're referring to

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)2:14:04 – 2:14:08

well i wanna know what specific steps you're doing to investigate this instance

Kash Patel (Witness)2:14:06 – 2:14:21

you're referring to some first of all you're referring to something that happened yesterday in public reporting and public reporting generally isn't accurate And so what the men and women of the FBI will do, as we do in every case, is we will look at whatever information comes our way and analyze it.

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)2:14:21 – 2:14:32

The, the involvement of this individual in bankrolling the wedding in substantial amounts of money has apparently been confirmed by the family. You're unaware of those reports?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:14:33 – 2:14:50

I don't track public reporting from yesterday for preparation in this hearing. As I've said, what we are going to continue to do is what we've done in the counterintelligence espionage division which has arrested more spies than any FBI in the history from Russia, China, Iran, and DPRK.

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)2:14:50 – 2:15:42

Well, I'm gonna ask you to report back to this committee what steps you are taking to investigate clearly it's appropriate that you do so I'm hoping that your staff or you will review immediately these public reports that have been available. Let me ask you also about counterintelligence. Just days before the united states launched its military operation in iran you fired a dozen agents and staff members from a counter-intelligence unit called ci twelve which was specifically tasked with monitoring threats with iran uh i am astonished that this kind of action was taken i'd like to know whether the dozen employees c i twelve have been rehired

Sen. Grassley (IA)2:15:44 – 2:15:44

individuals that

Kash Patel (Witness)2:15:45 – 2:16:06

individuals that have been removed were removed for reasons that uh they basically failed to meet the standards of the fbi when it comes to iran we've arrested fifty five percent more spies from iran than any fbi in the history of the united states of america we've seen a hundred percent increase um when it involves specific threats to homeland based out of iran and the individuals you're referring to are not experts

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)2:16:03 – 2:16:07

well let me let me interrupt because my time is limited Director Patel.

Kash Patel (Witness)2:16:07 – 2:16:09

You can define them as experts, but they definitely are not.

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)2:16:08 – 2:16:30

The the reports were that they were fired because they worked on the classified documents investigation involving President Trump. Do you think firing the president's political opponents is more important than retaining the decades of experience and expertise monitoring intelligent threats from Iran?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:16:31 – 2:16:36

I think what's most important is not have a weaponized FBI. And I will endeavor every single day to make sure we have no one there.

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)2:16:37 – 2:16:52

Well, in fact, the firing of these employees not only politicized but weaponized the FBI against its own employees who had involvement in investigation, they were assigned to it, they had no choice. What was the reason for firing them?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:16:53 – 2:16:57

Those individuals were terminated for weaponizing the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)2:16:58 – 2:17:13

You know, the promise you made to this committee was that no retribution would be taken against. any FBI agents for participating in investigation. How can you make those two statements consistent?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:17:14 – 2:17:16

Simple. If you weaponize law enforcement, you don't get to work at the FBI.

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)2:17:18 – 2:17:35

Let let me come back to uh the elections issue. I'd like a commitment from you that under no circumstances will FBI agents be deployed to the polls on or around election day.

Kash Patel (Witness)2:17:36 – 2:17:45

The FBI has an election uh counselor coordinator in every single field office where we quarterback these um election activities from. We'll continue to do that.

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)2:17:46 – 2:17:54

But can you commit to this committee that you will not send FBI agents to the polls on election day?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:17:54 – 2:17:59

The FBI will follow the law. If there's a reason to go there because there's been a violation of the law, we will. Otherwise, we won't.

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)2:17:59 – 2:18:04

Would would you agree with me that it the FBI has no general authority to monitor elections.

Kash Patel (Witness)2:18:05 – 2:18:07

That priority rests with DHS.

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)2:18:09 – 2:18:15

So you would agree with me that deploying FBI agents to the polls on election day would be contrary to law.

Kash Patel (Witness)2:18:17 – 2:18:23

I don't know that we can legally do it. I'm telling you we're going to house our agents and intel analysts in our field offices for election security efforts.

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)2:18:23 – 2:19:31

Well, I'm dissatisfied that you are unable to give us an unequivocal, clear, unambiguous, commitment that the fbi will be kept out of election interference you are involved in seven voter related subpoenas issued to the nevada secretary of state's office you were involved in seizure of election records from fulton county georgia clearly the fbi has been involved in possible election interference that's why you are committing to avoid that kind of interference going forward is so important today uh do you have plans to implement the executive order issued by the president which directed the attorney general to prioritize investigations and prosecutions of state and local officials who and i'm quoting issue print produce ship or distribute ballots to individuals the administration deems ineligible to vote have you begun any investigations pursuant to that executive order

Kash Patel (Witness)2:19:31 – 2:19:36

i'm unaware of any investigations but will follow every executive order because that's what the constitution and law require

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)2:19:36 – 2:19:38

so you've begun no investigations

Kash Patel (Witness)2:19:38 – 2:19:39

i'm not aware of any

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)2:19:40 – 2:20:45

uh director patel uh on this twenty fifth anniversary of nine eleven there are still ten thousand nine eleven victims and families who are seeking justice against the kingdom of saudi arabia they were permitted to do so by an act of congress i helped to lead the effort on the justice against sponsors of terrorism act in two thousand sixteen a federal district judge has just ruled that they can have a day in court that there is jurisdiction and they are going to seek justice with support of members of congress like myself who are asking the fbi now to divulge all of the files and evidence that it still has concealed will you commit that you will do full disclosure to the nine eleven families as they pursue justice and their day in court

Kash Patel (Witness)2:20:45 – 2:20:48

to my knowledge we've produced everything but if we haven't i'll take a look

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)2:20:49 – 2:20:53

well you'll commit that you'll get back to this committee and do a full review

Kash Patel (Witness)2:20:54 – 2:20:54

Yes, sir.

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)2:20:54 – 2:20:57

and you'll release whatever is appropriate.

Kash Patel (Witness)2:20:59 – 2:20:59

Yes.

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)2:20:59 – 2:21:15

Now, I'm hoping that, uh, you will do better than General Barr did, because he invoked the state privilege state secrets privilege act. You have no intention to do so, do you?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:21:15 – 2:21:18

Well, that's not a decision I make. That's a decision for the Attorney General.

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)2:21:19 – 2:21:21

Well, for your part, you will not invoke it.

Kash Patel (Witness)2:21:22 – 2:21:23

i'm not allowed to invoke it

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)2:21:24 – 2:21:38

uh let me just finish by asking you um how many agents right now are assigned to continue the investigation of uh the epstein predation

Kash Patel (Witness)2:21:39 – 2:21:42

the production did you say sorry i didn't hear your last word

Sen. Durbin (IL)2:21:42 – 2:21:43

predation

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)2:21:43 – 2:21:49

how many how many agents continue to be assigned to epstein related investigative work

Kash Patel (Witness)2:21:50 – 2:22:05

we have a number of agents, I don't have a total number of agents, that are always looking at information that sprouts from a previous case or previous matter, and when credible intelligence is reported in. We have one of the most aggressive uh child trafficking human trafficking squads to protect against children.

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)2:22:04 – 2:22:28

Will, will you commit that you'll review all of the investigator reports, as you know they're no, known as FD three O two's. All interview notes, leads, tips, records, and other investigative materials, generated in connection with his investigation and make sure that you comply with all of the legal obligations you have to disclose them.

Kash Patel (Witness)2:22:28 – 2:22:30

We've done that, and continue.

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)2:22:31 – 2:22:33

My time is expired. Thank you, Mister Chairman.

Sen. Grassley (IA)2:22:33 – 2:23:01

Uh, before Senator Brett, I've heard a lot about the weaponization uh of it, uh and I, there's a vacuum here that I wanna fill. So I'm gonna introduce into the record the documents I discussed during my opening which show how select FBI agents weaponized the agency against President Trump, his associates, and those in his orbit. Uh, Senator Brandt.

Sen. Britt (AL)2:23:02 – 2:24:38

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, thank you, Director Patel, for being in front of the committee today. Uh, the last time I had an opportunity to question you was in front of the CJS appropriation subcommittee. Um, it was there I thank you for the work that you were doing in the state of Alabama. Specifically in Montgomery, the Operation Southern Star was so successful. I think within two weeks you made sixty-three arrests, fifty-two guns, forty drug seizures. Um, there was real accountability. Uh, since then I've continued to be impressed, your partnership with the City of Tuscaloosa and the work there also proved to have excellent results, I think it was about a month ago you did a month-long operation. had ninety arrest, um, including forty-eight felony arrest. There were ten firearms seized. And in that there were two ho- two high profile arrest, um, one of which was somebody that, uh, had committed sexual abuse against a child younger than twelve, um, and also an, a wanted robbery suspect. So thank you for the work that you're doing there. You've also provided, uh, Tuscaloosa, their violent crimes unit. with assistance on the recent shootings. So I appreciate your quick action and the work that your men and women are doing. I'd like for you to talk a little bit about the your commitment to state and local partnerships, um anything that we need to know as a committee and where you see that continuing to go because to me it translates directly into making communities safer and I wanna see more of that in the state of Alabama and um would love to hear your plans for that.

Kash Patel (Witness)2:24:39 – 2:26:02

Thank you, Senator. So state local partnerships as i said after the nomination during confirmation and everyday since are critical to how the fbi conducts law enforcement operations around the country what we do best are joint task forces whether it's a jttf whether it's safe trails whether it's steadfast promise whether it's not forgot whatever you call wanna call it our best work is by bringing state locals to our facilities embedding them in there permanently so we have direct lines of communication and also run offensive operations together before i got to the fbi there was a fourteen month waiting period for a task force officer to onboard at the fbi because of bureaucratic administrative hurdles and just sheer waste of time we eliminated that backlog last year we cleared all seven hundred and fifty task force officers around the country and this year we've added two thousand seven hundred and fifty task force officers because now the administrative bureaucracy has been eliminated and it requires you only thirty to forty five days to onboard as a task force officer and also we don't farm out cross deputizations meaning once you complete the application process to become a task force officer you have to be deputized and we used to allow another agency to do that for whatever reason now our sacs in the field do those deputizations themselves for state local territorial and tribal partners increasing that capacity is the reason you are seeing the most prolific reduction in violent crime in us history not to mention the fact that we stopped eleven hundred terrorist attacks

Sen. Britt (AL)2:26:02 – 2:26:17

and i would say when you're when you're looking at that you talked about shortening the time frame you've been able to the standards high and the quality of the people that are engaging in these tax force where it needs to be obviously to achieve these tremendous results. Um, so you have no hesitation with regards to that.

Kash Patel (Witness)2:26:18 – 2:26:35

The SACs in the field know these officers and sheriffs and constables and state troopers better than Washington DC ever will. And so they know how to screen and who's gonna make a good candidate and these these folks usually have ten to twenty years of law enforcement under their belt before they become a TFO. And so that's why we put the emphasis in the field, not Washington.

Sen. Britt (AL)2:26:36 – 2:26:36

That's right.

Kash Patel (Witness)2:26:36 – 2:26:45

Move the bureaucracy, move the personnel, alleviate the administrative burden, and allow Alabama and everywhere else to have more task force officers serving with the FBI than ever before.

Sen. Britt (AL)2:26:45 – 2:26:49

Well, thank you for embracing those partnerships. You mentioned the terrorist attacks that you've been able to thwart.

Kash Patel (Witness)2:26:49 – 2:26:50

Mm-hmm.

Sen. Britt (AL)2:26:49 – 2:27:48

Let's talk a little bit about the year that you've had. I know you've worked closely with uh Secretary Mullen amongst others to make sure that we're safe when it came to the World Cup when it came to an- a number of things that we saw across um you know ac- across our country in the last year. So, number one, congratulations on the tremendous success and for keeping Americans and all of those that I heard you in your opening statement say the many people that traveled here to be a part of it thank you for keeping all of them safe and making that such, um, uh, an incredible success. I I want you to talk about some of the lessons that you learned and anything this committee may need to be thinking about as we look forward to the Olympics in twenty twenty eight as we look forward to look the football games that we see every weekend I know. Kennedy and I uh enjoy watching some some football on Saturdays, whether it's um LSU or Alabama or others. How do we make sure that we take lessons learned and that we're giving you the tools that you need and the structure that you need to continue that success that we saw with the World Cup?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:27:49 – 2:28:17

Yeah, so the World Cup saw seventy-eight Super Bowls and thirty-eight days at eleven venues, not to mention four dozen fan zones and uh other areas officially affiliated with base camps for teams. we had about seven million people come for those world cup games in over the course of thirty eight days. What we were able to do was establish a system of localized law enforcement, partner with the federal government, to train them on the counter-UAS programs that I'd already talked about, which take place at Redstone, Arsenal and Huntsville,

Sen. Britt (AL)2:28:16 – 2:28:16

Yep.

Kash Patel (Witness)2:28:17 – 2:30:02

Alabama. The first of its kind, why it wasn't done before, I don't know. But we had, we saw a threat based on counter-UAS systems that could easily target innocent Americans at sporting events, state fairs, college football games, world cup, what have you so we found a way to alleviate that threat by training state and locals and by deploying assets into the field instead of keeping them in washington d. c. the lessons we learned from the olympics to the two f one races uh to the club world cup from last summer and the super bowl this year and this world cup and six america two fifty events without a single major security incident was that having people on the ground connected in the field what was most important to me not having them sit in washington d. c. and so we pushed out more agents and intel operators to the field and we're gonna continue to do that for us there's a two-fold issue we need more resources to get more personnel to the field but we also need more resources to get the right kit we need more counter-us systems in the field not housed in the d. c. national capital region we need every state and local authority to have their own resources we can train them up on them we can procure them for them if we had the resources do so we wanna triple the size of our counter drones And we also need the appropriate level of funding for LA twenty eight, and we've put that forward to Congress already. It's gonna ma- take place in multiple locations in Southern California. We are going to need an immense amount of armored vehicles, bear cats, kit for SWAT operators and hostage rescue teams, and the appropriate level of training that goes into that. We've started that since day one, since we got here, we learned from all these events I've just listed. But the funding is gonna be critical to making sure that America puts on a wonderful LA twenty eight and has the success we've had across the enterprise with all of these events.

Sen. Britt (AL)2:30:02 – 2:30:56

Thank you, Mister Director, and in my final few minutes, um, I wanna talk about the cyber security threats that are facing our nation. Um, so many of our different businesses, our critical infrastructure, uh, we've seen cyber capabilities and artificial intelligence systems continue to advance at a rapid pace and when we're looking at this, how do we make sure I'd say in particular the critical infrastructure in more rural areas of Alabama, seems that those are becoming easier targets, um, given the advances that are made and harder to combat. Just last week, the Bureau released a new cyber strategy designed to protect Americans from these kinds of threats. Can you speak to the ways that you see this new cyber strategy and the Bureau um, more broadly being able to handle these things and what you're gonna, what you're gonna need from us in being able to do so.

Kash Patel (Witness)2:30:56 – 2:32:45

So thanks to the president, he released his cyber um strategy out of the White House. And we're proud to announce that the FBI is the first eighteen eleven agency to issue its own cyber strategy pursuant to that. And what do we do? We issued for the first time an offensive and defensive approach, which we encapsulated in Operation Wonder Shield and Operation Riptide. On the defensive side of the House, Senator, what we need to do, did is have six hundred engagements with our private sector partners. Eighty five percent of critical infrastructure in this country, water, waste water, electric, power, nuclear, is owned by the private sector. These private sector companies, as I was talking to Senator Klobuchar about, are working off of devices that are twenty and thirty years old, including our telecom infrastructure. And so we need them to upgrade. We need them to put in the resources and money, and we're on the ground with them, and we're asking them to allow us to get in early every time there's a cyber intrusion, from a nation state actor or disparate lone keyboard warrior. On the offensive side of the house, we the FBI are the only ones leading the charge on what we call joint sequence operations. Joint sequence operations require us to go out and engage, not just with our private sector as I talked about, but get on the platforms, get on the social media sites, the internet spaces, the dark web, and specifically allow us to run off-co, offensive cyber operations. And with that capacity, our cyber program has seen the largest success we've had. in the last eighteen months our ransomware convictions are up eight hundred percent our ransomware charges are up thirty five percent uh we've shut down three thousand criminal domains and here's the most important part maybe we've extradited fifty cyber criminals that is a thirty two percent increase that's what we need to do to have a whole of government approach to dismantle those that are willing to use our cyber security infrastructure um to threaten our way of life

Sen. Britt (AL)2:32:45 – 2:33:07

And Mister Director, you mentioned in um in the plan that you put out how it is important to have hands-on training and being able to do this and be able to combat it in real time, and facilities like Redstone, Arsenal's kinetic cyber range there in Huntsville can properly help prepare uh your men and women to to keep our country safe. So um thank you for for pointing that out.

Kash Patel (Witness)2:33:06 – 2:33:39

The ki- the kinetic cyber range is maybe one of the best things that we have in the FBI. We literally built a town indoors in Huntsville, Alabama. an entire towns, uh, consist of housing, schools, car shops, streets, so we can practice and train against the modern cyber threat on all ecosystems and learn how to intrude and ev- detect and evade, and also learn how to find those infiltrators that are coming onto our platform. So I would encourage folks, and I've opened up that training capacity to state and law enforcement partners across the country to come down and cha- and train at our cyber-connected race.

Sen. Britt (AL)2:33:39 – 2:33:42

We're proud of the work that's done there and, um, we're proud to help lead the way. Thank you.

Sen. Grassley (IA)2:33:43 – 2:33:53

Before Senator Welch, I'm gonna go vote and one of my Republican colleagues take control. Senator Welch. Senator Welch.

Sen. Welch (VT)2:33:53 – 2:34:22

OK. Thank you very much. Uh, Mister Patel, uh, or Director Patel, I, excuse me. President Trump said the following just this past week and while in Ireland, where he was at a golf tournament. He said, quote, " We had a rigged election." As you know, it was totally rigged. Because I won three times. I didn't win twice. I won three times. And of course the president is saying he won the twenty twenty election. Do you agree with that?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:34:25 – 2:34:30

There are many ongoing investigations surrounding that matter, so I'm not gonna comment on it and stylize the evidence.

Sen. Welch (VT)2:34:28 – 2:34:39

Simple. So, if there's ongoing investigations, as I know there are, that indicates you don't, you do believe the president, twenty twenty was rigged.

Kash Patel (Witness)2:34:39 – 2:34:46

There are many ongoing investigations, and for me as the FBI director to comment on the evidence would basically be in contradiction with the Constitution.

Sen. Welch (VT)2:34:44 – 2:35:44

Right. And in furtherance of supporting the president's assertion that he won in twenty twenty, the FBI conducted a raid at Georgia's Fulton County Election Office. The agents removed more than six hundred and fifty boxes of ballots and election records from the twenty twenty election. And they did that despite the fact that there were two recounts. including one done by hand that showed President Trump lost Georgia by eleven thousand seven hundred seventy nine votes. And no investigation has found any evidence of wrongdoing. And according to the uh public reporting, your FBI has brought in two hundred and sixty intelligence officials to investigate the election results in Georgia in twenty twenty. And that's on top of the agents from Atlanta already working on the investigation. Is that number accurate?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:35:45 – 2:36:00

As I've said, Senator, repeatedly public reporting is often wrong. And on terms of the investigation you're referring to, we presented it to a federal judge or a state court judge with a presentation of of evidence and he found a sufficiency of probable cause to execute that rate.

Sen. Welch (VT)2:35:59 – 2:36:15

And have you, ish, has there been a single indictment from this deployment of so many, hundreds? of fbi agents to georgia to investigate an election that had two recounts one by hand a single indictment

Kash Patel (Witness)2:36:15 – 2:36:18

once again that matter is ongoing so i'm not gonna comment on it

Sen. Welch (VT)2:36:18 – 2:36:25

no the question is not whether it's ongoing the question is whether as of this moment has there been a single indictment

Kash Patel (Witness)2:36:25 – 2:36:30

if i comment on it that's commenting on an ongoing investigation and the fbi doesn't do that

Sen. Welch (VT)2:36:31 – 2:36:37

mister patel there's been no indictment That'd be public information, right?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:36:38 – 2:36:39

Not if it was sealed.

Sen. Welch (VT)2:36:39 – 2:37:17

Alright. Now. In September of last year, President Trump accidentally posted to Truth Social a direct message to Pam Bondi, then the Attorney General, regarding former FBI Director James Comey. It said, " Pam, I have reviewed over thirty statements and posts saying that essentially Quote, " Same old story as last time. All talk, no action, nothing is being done. What about Comey?" In the post, the president called Mister Comey "guilty as hell." You agree with that?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:37:19 – 2:37:22

Many of those matters are ongoing, as you know, so I'm not gonna comment on it.

Sen. Welch (VT)2:37:23 – 2:37:25

And you're doing an investigation, right?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:37:26 – 2:37:29

Many of those matters are ongoing and have been publicly reported.

Sen. Welch (VT)2:37:29 – 2:38:18

So Trump previously fired Comey as FBI director in twenty seventeen. Well, the Bureau was overseeing an investigation into whether Russia meddled in the twenty sixteen election. And in May, Mister Comey, Comey was indicted for an image of seashells that had been laid out to say eighty six forty seven, something he had posted eleven months earlier. And according to Todd Blanch, that is because you, as head of the FBI, were conducting an investigation the whole time. And Blanch said I mis- meet the press. This is about a body of evidence that we have collected over a series of about eleven months. Is Attorney General Blanch correct that the FBI investigated the case against Mister Comey for eleven months?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:38:19 – 2:38:25

The multiple matters that are being publicly or privately investigated by the FBI are not gonna be commented on by me.

Sen. Welch (VT)2:38:24 – 2:38:30

I'm talking about the Blanch assertion that the FBI was investigating Comey for eleven months.

Kash Patel (Witness)2:38:31 – 2:38:38

The The Attorney General is correct in stating that there has been lengthy investigations into anyone that organized law enforcement.

Sen. Welch (VT)2:38:37 – 2:38:39

And how many agents were assigned to that case?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:38:40 – 2:38:41

I don't know off the top of my head.

Sen. Welch (VT)2:38:42 – 2:39:21

Well, another target of mis- of President Trump's criticism about investigations into the twenty sixteen election is, of course, former CIA Director, uh, John Brennan. In July of last year, President Trump said the following about Mr. Brennan. "They're very dishonest people. I think they're crooked as hell." and maybe they have to pay a price for that. And yesterday, the lawyer for Mister Brennan said in a court filing that his client received a subpoena to testify before a grand jury in Florida. Given this investigation was publicly reported last July, it's been ongoing for at least fourteen months. How many agents have you assigned to investigate Mister Brennan?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:39:22 – 2:39:28

I don't pick the number of agents that get assigned to these cases. The SACs are in charge and they run the investigations as they see.

Sen. Welch (VT)2:39:28 – 2:40:21

And it's costing millions of dollars, bottom line. Here's the concern, Director Patel. You've had, you've been more than willing to use the FBI's limited resources to investigate President Trump's personal grievances over previous elections. Comey and Brennan for the twenty sixteen election, and Russians' involvement. Georgia election officials for twenty twenty. My concern is that this means you are, what you are willing to do for the president, and this year's midterm elections that the president is already saying are gonna be rigged if he loses. Last year during the president's State of the Union, President Trump referred to Democrats and said, this is public, at the State of the Union, the only way they can get elected is to cheat. Do you agree with President Trump's statement?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:40:22 – 2:40:26

The information you're discussing involves ongoing investigations, and I'm not

Sen. Welch (VT)2:40:27 – 2:40:28

No, I'm asking you

Kash Patel (Witness)2:40:28 – 2:40:30

I gave you my answer.

Sen. Welch (VT)2:40:29 – 2:40:32

about his assertion that in this upcoming election,

Kash Patel (Witness)2:40:33 – 2:40:35

The president has the absolute right,

Sen. Welch (VT)2:40:33 – 2:40:34

days away from now,

Kash Patel (Witness)2:40:35 – 2:40:36

as any president,

Sen. Welch (VT)2:40:35 – 2:40:39

the only way that the Democrats can win is to cheat.

Kash Patel (Witness)2:40:36 – 2:40:38

to make whatever statements he wants.

Sen. Welch (VT)2:40:39 – 2:40:40

Do you agree with the president?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:40:40 – 2:40:50

Based upon the Russiagate hoax, and everything else that's happened, the president is completely justified in making his opinions known, as does any president before him.

Sen. Welch (VT)2:40:50 – 2:41:19

Well, you've been asked a few questions about what the FBI role is gonna be. Last month, Congressman and Michigan gubernatorial candidate John James said to podcaster Benny Johnson, quote, "I've already had a good conversation with my friend, Kash Patel, who has said already that the FBI will have a presence leading up to election day in Michigan in both West Michigan and Southeast Michigan. Is that true?"

Kash Patel (Witness)2:41:19 – 2:41:22

We have an election crimes community coordinator in all fifty-six

Sen. Welch (VT)2:41:26 – 2:41:29

wait i thought you weren't gonna be sending people to the polls

Kash Patel (Witness)2:41:30 – 2:41:32

when did you hear that it's just another lie

Sen. Welch (VT)2:41:32 – 2:41:34

when you answered mister blumenthal

Kash Patel (Witness)2:41:34 – 2:41:34

nope

Sen. Welch (VT)2:41:35 – 2:41:39

so you are sending you are sending fbi's to the polls

Kash Patel (Witness)2:41:37 – 2:41:49

we have election crisis coordinators manned at all fifty six field offices election integrity is of paramount importance this fbi is not gonna shy away

Sen. Welch (VT)2:41:44 – 2:41:52

alright alright this this is this is existential

Kash Patel (Witness)2:41:50 – 2:42:21

from that effort and if you wanna continue continue lying about the men and women of the fbi so you can have your four second campaign ad go ahead but the historic results hotel the twenty percent reduction in murder rate the eleven hundred terrorist attacks stopped the eleven thousand children found this is terrorist attacks stopped the fifty four thousand violent offenders are what this fbi is driving towards the top ten most captured this mister mister chairman it is not the question i ask i ask that my time be stored to dispel the monster six of the most wanted fraudsters captured you asked where we're spending our resources we're spending the resources in delivering the most prolific chairman reduction in crime in us history

Sen. Welch (VT)2:42:24 – 2:42:28

I ask that my time be restored, Mister Chairman.

Sen. Cornyn (TX)2:42:29 – 2:42:30

Please proceed.

Sen. Welch (VT)2:42:31 – 2:43:08

This is existential. You told Mister Blumenthal you weren't sending FBI agents to election sites. You told, and according to Mister James, you said the FBI is on the way. And this is about whether the United States citizens, Republicans, Democrats, Independents, are the deciders of this election, or there's election interference led by the FBI in the Trump administration. That's what this is about. Do you pledge that you will not in any way interfere in the will of the American people when they go to the polls in November?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:43:08 – 2:43:13

I pledge unequivocally that I will not participate in your charade of lies.

Sen. Welch (VT)2:43:13 – 2:43:18

Then why are you uh being such a panderer to President Trump,

Kash Patel (Witness)2:43:29 – 2:43:34

What I believe in is the rule of law. What I will always believe in is executing the rule of law.

Sen. Welch (VT)2:43:32 – 2:43:37

The rule of law is the president saying in advance that if he loses an election,

Kash Patel (Witness)2:43:36 – 2:43:38

Are you done with your campaign ad? By the way.

Sen. Welch (VT)2:43:38 – 2:43:39

it's been rigged.

Kash Patel (Witness)2:43:40 – 2:43:46

I wanna know. How your wealth increased four thousand percent since you became United States Senator. That's a magic act. All Americans should be available.

Sen. Welch (VT)2:43:47 – 2:43:49

OK. Mister Patel.

Sen. Cornyn (TX)2:43:49 – 2:43:55

Let's knock it off. Um. Senator Welch, proceed to ask your questions and uh the witness will answer the questions.

Sen. Welch (VT)2:43:56 – 2:44:51

Thank you very much, Mister Chairman. Mister Patel, do you know that you you know that the First Amendment guarantees the right to a free press. Obviously. You filed five defamation lawsuits against journalists since twenty nineteen. And you filed your second against the author of an article in the Atlantic. demanding two hundred fifty million dollars from her. The complaint is based on, according to your complaint, these are your words, that she wrote you were known to drink to the point of obvious intoxication, in many cases in a private club at Ned's in Washington DC. She also wrote you were known to drink to excess at the Poodle Room in Las Vegas. Mister Patel, is the FBI currently investigating Or did the FBI ever investigate the author of that article, Miss Fitzpatrick, following that Atlantic Star?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:44:51 – 2:45:00

As a US citizen, I have every right to claim the truth. She printed false material, I'm taking her to court, as a personal private si- let me finish.

Sen. Welch (VT)2:44:58 – 2:45:01

They didn't ask that question. No.

Kash Patel (Witness)2:45:00 – 2:45:03

As a personal private citizen,

Sen. Welch (VT)2:45:01 – 2:45:03

Cuz you're answering a question I didn't ask.

Kash Patel (Witness)2:45:03 – 2:45:09

I am allowed to participate in my own defense, especially when there's a smear campaign,

Sen. Welch (VT)2:45:09 – 2:45:09

I

Kash Patel (Witness)2:45:09 – 2:45:22

one which you are participating, and continuing the falsehoods and lies that have been directed at me, because of the historic dissent you cannot stand the fact that president trump and this fbi have made america more secure than it has ever been

Sen. Welch (VT)2:45:15 – 2:45:16

alright here's the

Kash Patel (Witness)2:45:22 – 2:45:28

you didn't do it in your twenty years in the senate no other administration has done it we've done it your time's up

Sen. Welch (VT)2:45:28 – 2:45:33

did you invest did the fbi investigate her is the question i asked

Kash Patel (Witness)2:45:34 – 2:45:44

the fbi investigates criminals the fbi investigates criminals and the fbi does not investigate personal matters i told you i addressed it

Sen. Welch (VT)2:45:40 – 2:45:49

did you in did the Did the FBI investigate the author of this article,

Kash Patel (Witness)2:45:49 – 2:45:50

No.

Sen. Welch (VT)2:45:50 – 2:45:51

Miss Fitzpatrick?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:45:54 – 2:45:55

You heard a hearing? I just said no.

Sen. Welch (VT)2:45:57 – 2:45:58

I wanna ask you about your trip to Italy.

Kash Patel (Witness)2:45:59 – 2:46:00

His time's up. He still gonna go?

Sen. Welch (VT)2:46:01 – 2:46:05

He interrupted and filibustered. Let me ask him about his trip to Italy.

Sen. Cornyn (TX)2:46:05 – 2:46:07

If you would uh wind wind it down.

Sen. Welch (VT)2:46:06 – 2:46:51

I'll be brief. Thank you, Mister Chairman. I understand that there's a requirement that you take the official plane when you go to where you wanna go. And apparently you wanted to go to the Olympics. And you combined, you were four days there and you did some quote work. A dinner with the ambassador, an hour with Italy counterpart operatives, uh three twenty minute meetings of a security briefing and a thirty minute tour over four days. And then you barged into the celebration of our winning olympic team what were you doing doing that can't you let the players enjoy the joy of their own victory

Kash Patel (Witness)2:46:52 – 2:47:24

what you'll never understand is the players who are my friends invited me into the locker room what you'll never understand is that during that trip where three hundred thousand americans went to italy to participate in the games and watched them not a single security incident occurred what you'll never understand is throughout the world cup not a single security incident occurred because we stood a joint operations center and the most important thing to come out of that trip besides the american men defeating the canadians and celebrating the love of this country, and inviting me in to do so is the fact that we obtained the seizure and capture of china's most prolific hacker, and returned him to the united states.

Sen. Welch (VT)2:47:24 – 2:47:27

and how about your trip to the boondoggle ranch?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:47:28 – 2:47:32

how many days off a year do you take? cause i took four this year.

Sen. Welch (VT)2:47:33 – 2:47:35

how about your trip to the boondoggle ranch?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:47:34 – 2:47:47

i go where i wanna go, after delivering the most prolific crime reduction in us history. you take a hundred and eighty days off a year, and you can put up all the posters you want, and all the lies you want, but everybody sees you for the complete and total fraud that you are.

Sen. Welch (VT)2:47:46 – 2:47:48

There's, I'll tell you what the lie is,

Sen. Cornyn (TX)2:47:47 – 2:47:50

I'd I'd think Senator Welch uh,

Sen. Welch (VT)2:47:48 – 2:47:50

that the twenty twenty election was rigged,

Sen. Cornyn (TX)2:47:50 – 2:47:51

Senator Welch you need to we-

Sen. Welch (VT)2:47:50 – 2:47:54

and it's a lie that only Democrats meant by cheating.

Sen. Cornyn (TX)2:47:52 – 2:47:56

Senator Welch, you need to wind down your questions so we can move on.

Sen. Welch (VT)2:47:56 – 2:48:20

Alright, I'll just end by this, Mister Chairman. It's the American people, Republicans and Democrats and Independent, who have to be the deciders, of who their representatives in Congress are. not the president of the United States, not an FBI, a compliant, servile FBI director who does the will of the president. I yield back.

Sen. Cornyn (TX)2:48:21 – 2:51:41

Mister Patel, um I wanna congratulate you and the men and women of the FBI for getting back to basics when it comes to law enforcement. And uh even in this politically fraught and polarized environment where there are accusations cast back and forth, I appreciate the fact that you've kept your eye on the prize and I think is best demonstrated by the fact, uh, that, uh, crime rates are down across the board as a result of the good work uh that you and the men and women of the FBI have done. I worried as a result of the weaponization of the Department of Justice and the during the previous administration and particularly the targeting of President Trump and the Russian gate hoax and uh scandal that there might be an overwhelming temptation for payback um and I hope that you and uh Attorney General Todd Blanch continue to resist that obviously uh even people that you agree with uh you may may be subject to from a political perspective be subject to uh uh, an investigation by the department. That's appropriate, just as it is if people you disagree with are subject to investigation. If there's probable cause they've committed some, some sort of offense. So, um I appreciate the restoration of the, of the uh, department back to basics. Let me sort of reflect on a couple of things here. And I wanna talk a little bit about crypto, about AI, And I wanna talk a little bit about flock cameras. Um So Unbeknownst to me there is such a thing as a uh crypto ATM where you can actually go to what looks like a traditional ATM and convert dollars uh, to crypto currency. Um The Federal Trade Commission has reported a thousand percent increase in money lost to scammers through crypto kiosks from twenty twenty to twenty twenty three so as i reflect back on on um for example when i was attorney general of texas we we thought we were being cutting edge by creating something we called the texas internet bureau we thought we were really being cutting edge um and it sounds awfully quaint now uh the current uh office is i think uh the cyber crime division of the ag's office which is uh is more uh in line with current uh current parlance but the fact of the matter is every great technology can be used for ill by by uh by the bad guys and i just wanna know what kind of concerns do you have about cryptocurrency and its the ability to use this uh for uh money laundering for uh ransomware demands and for other criminal activity because the very essence of the uh cryptocurrency is it's very difficult to trace. Um, can you exp expound on that?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:51:41 – 2:51:50

So there's, you know, with crypto, and I think you were ahead of the curve back in the day, Senator, for whatever that may be worth. Um, crypto has a lot of lawful uses,

Sen. Cornyn (TX)2:51:50 – 2:51:50

Of course.

Kash Patel (Witness)2:51:50 – 2:53:02

and we don't wanna impede in those lawful uses or the exchange of cryptocurrency. The problem with some of the crypto atms and other access to cryptocurrency is our adversaries have taken advantage of our laws and what i mean by that is the scams and fraud that you're referring to is how these fraudsters and these scam centers that i was talking about earlier overseas washed their money and their ill-gotten gains and because we the fbi have launched the largest scam center initiative under operation blackout to obtain seventeen billion dollars in fraud rack, a large chunk of it which is crypto, we're able to go out there and seize that money back and start returning it to Americans. But what individual and disparate actors do across the world while targeting Americans, is they take their money through these fraud schemes, phishing, romance schemes, online texting, what have you, and trick senior citizens into giving them their life savings or their kids' college tuition and then they wash that money through the crypto environment. That's the fraud that we are focusing on, and that's where we need some assistance with Congress to have some more mechanisms to be able to chase down and prevent them from washing that money.

Sen. Cornyn (TX)2:53:04 – 2:53:49

So I think I understand, uh, having been involved in politics a long time, I understand politics and public, the importance of public opinion when it comes to politics. But I also think public officials have a responsibility, uh, to tell the truth. to try to correct misperceptions about technology. For example, right now, uh, we're seeing, particularly in social media, an attack on, uh, developing of artificial intelligence and data centers. And, uh, I thought it was telling that, uh, uh, Elon Musk's, uh, site, X, uh, investigated and found two hundred Chinese bots that were responsible for sort of the dooms

Kash Patel (Witness)2:53:49 – 2:53:49

mmm

Sen. Cornyn (TX)2:53:49 – 2:54:31

uh the doomsday scenarios that would were used to uh scare people basically when it came to ai and um these these data centers i understand the data centers it's a whole other issue in terms of electricity rates uh water use and and land use and and those need to be addressed at uh at the local level i believe um and people need to understand exactly what's involved the benefits and the costs and make their own decisions. But I wanna talk, there seems to also be um a recent rushed judgment when it has come to automated license place plate readers or so-called flock cameras.

Kash Patel (Witness)2:54:28 – 2:54:28

Mm-hmm.

Sen. Cornyn (TX)2:54:31 – 2:54:40

Uh, could you explain why these have been important uh for law enforcement investigations and uh and uh law enforcement purposes?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:54:40 – 2:56:29

Absolutely, and I'm glad to address this matter. So private companies have and private municipalities and towns put up cameras around um traffic circles in the neighborhoods and the like they collect information not the fbi where there is no reasonable expectation of privacy basically publicly available information where the fbi partners with these individuals is on a case by case basis and not a rolling access basis and what we do in criminal investigations when a tragic event occurs i'll give you uh a very tragic event but a great example the brown university shooting where that guy went in and killed a bunch of students, shot a bunch of students, and then fled the scene. The cameras weren't great up there, in Brown University. Um, we weren't able to get any facial recognition on the individual, but what we were able to get, based on a flock camera, was a license plate. We were able to then trace that license plate to the individual and his scheme, and ultimately find that individual who died of a self-inflicted gunshot wound in New Hampshire. That's just one example of how the FBI does it. The best, the uh the other examples are on chasing down child predators. We have continuously utilized this when people kidnap children and cross state lines. Then we go to these LPR leaders and say, " Hey, we have a picture of this car, we don't have any information on it. Can you help us out into where it went?" And we have saved children over and over again, uh from these child predators. We've retrieved um these victims. We've also prosecuted these kidnappers. and these child traffickers. And that's some of our best work because a lot of that leads to unfortunately, uh, the creation of child sexual abuse material and crimes against children of sexual nature and we're able to track those with this. We have to use it lawfully, but we the FBI don't continue to access that on a rolling basis.

Sen. Cornyn (TX)2:56:31 – 2:57:41

On another topic, it's been three and a half mu- or about three months and three days since section seven O two of the foreign intelligence surveillance act has expired, and not been reauthorized by congress. I realize that many uh uh telecoms are cooperating with the government based on the certification by the foreign intelligence surveillance court. Uh this is another area where I think uh there's a lot of misconception and misunderstanding. Obviously, we wanna make sure that uh we keep our country safe and protect our national security interests. And we also wanna protect individual privacy rights. by American citizens. But in fact, this authority is only for foreigners overseas under very, very limited circumstances. They're tightly controlled uh by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court and by congressional oversight committees. Do you continue to believe that it's important for Congress to reauthorize section seven O two of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act and what happens if uh once the certification by the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court uh runs out

Kash Patel (Witness)2:57:42 – 2:58:40

so seven O two try to get it done in a minute is an intelligence community tool the FBI and I can only speak to us our collection is responsible for three percent of seven O two collection the other ninety seven percent is the rest of the IC what the FBI does most importantly what the FBI does not do is collect on US citizens what the FBI does do is access pursuant to the federal statute already lawfully collected information of individuals who are overseas and are not uspers were we prohibited to do that in the future we we've provided classified briefings to the senate and the house in a litany of examples on terrorist attacks that we've prevented children that we've found on uh narco-traffickers that we were able to annihilate and arrest based solely on seven O two collection of overseas non-usper individuals and we want those methodologies to be able to be available to the fbi where that to go dark we would have a lot of problems or we would have no ability to trace that information.

Sen. Cornyn (TX)2:58:41 – 2:58:56

And it's true that um section seven O two uh of the foreign intelligence surveillance act comprises about sixty percent of the president's daily brief. Uh, the information that the president gets in a classified setting,

Kash Patel (Witness)2:58:53 – 2:58:53

Yes.

Sen. Cornyn (TX)2:58:56 – 2:59:00

uh, to protect the nation. Is uh, is that your understanding as well?

Kash Patel (Witness)2:59:00 – 2:59:07

Along with the PDB and the president being the recipient, as well as all other agency heads who direct our operations based on it. That's correct.

Sen. Cornyn (TX)2:59:08 – 2:59:09

Thank you very much.

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)2:59:09 – 2:59:10

R Rau.

Sen. Hirono (HI)2:59:11 – 3:00:36

Thank you, Mister Chairman. Mister Patel, the FBI Director should at least try to be above reproach, but there are many questions and concerns raised about your judgment and character. For example, in August twenty twenty five, you took a VIP snorkeling tour around the USS Arizona at Pearl Harbor, a sacred site. sacred that is why these tours are rare since twenty twenty only senior defense officials members of the military and one congressman who was a special forces veteran have participated and then came you uh when this incident came to light in may senator schumer durbin and i sent you a letter and we asked you three simple questions first what personal travel have you taken as fbi director two what non-official activities have you attended as part of official travel three what has been the cost to taxpayers of these kinds of activities and uh three months later no response mister patel when can we expect your response to our letter

Kash Patel (Witness)3:00:37 – 3:00:47

i actually provided for the first time ever no director did before a full uh analysis of not only my travel records but director Comey's as well and when you look at that

Sen. Hirono (HI)3:00:46 – 3:00:50

so is there a date anywhere in there for when you gonna respond to us

Kash Patel (Witness)3:00:50 – 3:00:51

it's already been responded to

Sen. Hirono (HI)3:00:53 – 3:00:53

what was that

Kash Patel (Witness)3:00:53 – 3:00:56

it's already been responded to that letter is public

Sen. Hirono (HI)3:00:57 – 3:01:01

i don't have the response you have it right there with you maybe you can hand it to me

Kash Patel (Witness)3:00:59 – 3:01:02

not my fault you can look it up

Sen. Hirono (HI)3:01:01 – 3:01:15

and the reason i ask that is i had a director who said that there was a report that he had right then and there and uh it didn't come to me until a lot later so if you have a response give it to me right now please

Kash Patel (Witness)3:01:15 – 3:01:16

it's public go look it up

Sen. Hirono (HI)3:01:16 – 3:01:22

i assume that there is no response i'm i'm not gonna be holding my breath that you gonna provide that response

Kash Patel (Witness)3:01:19 – 3:01:19

that's a lie

Sen. Hirono (HI)3:01:23 – 3:08:15

so anyway if the if this uh snorkel tour and event were a one off incident uh that would be one thing but it's part of a broader pattern of you using your office to benefit yourself showing your lack of judgment and character you have wasted untold taxpayer dollars driving around in foreign luxury cars partying in italy and flying a private jet to play golf and watch hockey there has been bipartisan criticism i'm glad to know that some of my republican colleagues actually criticized some of this activity and they have criticized this waste and abuse so maybe today one of my republican colleagues will demand an explanation of some of these activities of yours now mister patel you have clearly politicized the fbi and whenever you are asked even today uh questions that you don't feel like answering your answer is it's ongoing it's part of an investigation so you think that that covers everything and you don't answer so that is that is what you have resorted to aside from i've just watched you today uh in a very combative mode with my colleague uh mister welch senator welch and you attacking him which is also kind of the the way that you approach questions that you don't wanna answer and then i note your recent appearance before the senate appropriations committee i'll get to that in a bit so to be clear there are many things that you should answer for you have been at the helm of the fbi for two years now and the list of your failings is long and frankly growing uh you have decimated the fbi workforce you've been asked that the fbi today is down thousands thousands of dedicated professionals who work to keep our country safe and frankly your answer to some questions along those lines have been unbelievable and if i thought that i could get a uh real answer out of you i'd ask you questions like what the hell were you thinking in getting rid of twelve firing a dozen iran experts on the eve of an illegal war with iran and as as far as i'm concerned the good work being done by the fbi agents and analysts um of the sort that um you described is happening in spite of you not because of you you have lowered hiring standards to allow applicants with a history of bestiality and theft to uh serve as fbi employees and i think all of us would love to know why an organization charged with investigating theft should bring thieves into your midst but you won't give a straight answer as to why this change was made to uh eh your hiring uh even to senator kennedy's questions this morning i think he still pretty mystified as to why bestiality was taken off the list You have been so drunk that briefings have been rescheduled so you could sleep it off. When challenged by Senator Van Hollen at the Appropriation Committee hearing several months ago to take an alcoholism test, you agreed. Senator Van Hollen has posted the results of his test. We are still awaiting you posting your results of your test. the fbi has long identified racially ethnically motivated violent extremists that is an actual category uh which includes white nationalists as the most most lethal group of domestic terrorists in our country your fbi no longer talks about that threat you no longer post about it and it's not because the threat has gone away and you approve so-called surges where FBI agents were diverted to low-level non-criminal immigration enforcement, something we know near and dear to the president's heart, when these agents should be focused on important missions such as preventing sex crimes, elder fraud and drug trafficking. You have undermined prosecutions by posting details to your social media. You know, you testified today that that to questions you don't feel like answering it's ongoing it's uh an investigation can't talk about it and yet you have actually posted things that should be ongoing and where you should keep your mouth shut your FBI executed a raid of the election office in Fulton County Georgia and seized ballots in an effort to prove the president's unhinged conspiracy theories about the twenty twenty election Another thing near and dear to the president's heart and which you sought to help him out on. And yet, you have done nothing about the rampant corruption taking place at the highest levels of the executive branch. We all know the president accepted a four hundred million dollar jet from Qatar, which he plans to keep after he leaves office. Tech billionaires received special access to the White House in exchange for paying for the president's new ballroom vanity project pardons have been available for one million dollar contributions to the president's campaign and just this week it has been revealed that a russian oligarch paid hundreds of thousands of dollars so donald trump junior could have his wedding on a private island the fbi is supposed to be investigating this sort of blatant public corruption not turning a blind eye mister fatale this country needs an fbi director who will give us straight answers not obfuscate not give us the kind of uh rhetoric that uh you have provided once again today it is a disservice to this committee's oversight functions and it's certainly a disservice to the american people and it is no wonder that former attorney general bill barr said you would take a leadership role as the fbi over his Dead body, and yet here you are, Mister Chairman. I am done with this witness.

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:08:22 – 3:08:23

Are you done?

Sen. Hirono (HI)3:08:23 – 3:08:25

Yes, I'm done with this witness, Mister Chairman.

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:08:24 – 3:09:29

Uh, before I call on Senator Lee, I wanna We've got another inconsistency I wanna point out. I find it interesting that my democratic colleagues continue to bring up Doctor Director Patel's travel. yet my democratic colleagues didn't seem too interested about my past oversight of then-FBI director ray's travel or how ray uh left a democrat-led oversight hearing early for a personal vacation so if my democratic colleagues are going to be consistent they should have joined my oversight years ago and to be consistent i've looked into uh tells travel and requested detailed information he's been more responsive than his predecessors he's agreed to provide access to ray and comey's travel records and access to his that's more transparency than his predecessor uh there are some issues to be worked out and we're working to resolve them senator lee

Sen. Durbin (IL)3:09:28 – 3:09:31

mister chairman i'd like to make a statement

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:09:32 – 3:09:32

go ahead

Sen. Durbin (IL)3:09:33 – 3:10:13

mister chairman there's been a reference made to a a letter from mister tell to you it was sent to you on july the twentieth this letter is an explanation of some of the charges that have been made in the misuse of aircraft at the fbi for the record we were given this letter on the democratic side not on july twentieth but last night last night to say that this was a public letter it may have started being public last night but we had never seen it before if we're going to have an honest exchange of investigation of attorneys general of both political parties, there should be a timely disclosure of an important document like this.

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:10:14 – 3:10:15

Senator Lee.

Sen. Lee (UT)3:10:15 – 3:11:47

Thank you, Mister Chairman, thank you, Director Patel, for your service to our country and as we uh recently passed the one year anniversary of the tragic assassination of Charlie Kirk in Utah, I wanna thank you for your work in connection with that investigation. You were on the ground personally in Utah, uh your your agents and experts within the FBI. uh, played instrumental roles, uh, in investigating the matter, uh, not only in identifying and apprehending the suspect, but also in preparing, uh, uh, for trial, uh, your team of forensic experts and your agents on the ground, in concert with state and local law enforcement in Utah and other federal law enforcement partners, were instrumental. So I thank you for that. You know, uh, just occurred to me that we're, we're now, um, little more than two years, um, after the, um, fortunately unsuccessful assassination attempt on President Trump in Butler, Pennsylvania. And yet as we sit here today, um, I think neither the American people, nor this committee, can claim to have anything of approaching a robust understanding of - of Thomas Crookes, who he was, uh, how he came as close to succeeding as he did that day. Thank heavens that he didn't. Um, but um, what can you tell us about what you've learned about Thomas Crookes, and the status of that investigation, and the timing of uh of any release to the public?

Kash Patel (Witness)3:11:49 – 3:12:45

Um, the FBI's review of that matter is in support of the United States Secret Service, who are obviously the lead, because it relates to a matter involving the President of the United States, a pres- uh, a Secret Service protectee. we've um put out and provided all the information to not only the secret service but relevant committees of jurisdiction that we are lawfully able to release um as you said thankfully that invest that um assassination attempt was unsuccessful um and i would defer to my colleagues at dhs in terms of the security measures surrounding that incidents and what upgrades they've made we will continue to um as we did in that investigation i think we looked at some twenty seven devices um uh, exfiltrated all the data off of them, looked for connections to individuals in America and overseas, and we found no evidence, um, that that individual was literally even speaking, uh, to any other human being other than his parents who he resided with. And so, that's sort of where we're at.

Sen. Lee (UT)3:12:45 – 3:12:48

OK. Uh, can you commit to working with us on,

Kash Patel (Witness)3:12:48 – 3:12:48

Yeah.

Sen. Lee (UT)3:12:48 – 3:12:53

uh, uh, keeping us apprised where the investigation is and when we might be able to expect more information?

Kash Patel (Witness)3:12:53 – 3:12:53

Sure.

Sen. Lee (UT)3:12:53 – 3:13:25

Thank you. Um, just since we began this morning, uh, in today's hearing, uh, journalist Catherine Herridge reported, uh, shortly after the hearing began that an FBI special agent was looking, uh, to have Elon Musk prosecuted after, as the leader of Doge and as part of the Doge effort, uh, Mister Musk asked government employees to report on what they had accomplished, uh, that previous week. Can you give us any insight into this matter?

Kash Patel (Witness)3:13:26 – 3:13:32

i'm not uh familiar with that matter but i'll take a look at it um i'll look at miss eric's post and and circle back

Sen. Lee (UT)3:13:32 – 3:14:07

ok uh thank you i'd i'd appreciate that and hope you can keep us uh apprised of that um i'd like to turn next uh back to privacy and the fourth amendment it came up a moment ago in connection with um your discussion of pfizer section seven O two with my colleague senator cornyn uh the It's important because the fourth amendment of the constitution protects the American people. It protects us against unreasonable searches and seizures. And it requires that in all, outside of certain limited and narrow exceptions,

Kash Patel (Witness)3:14:07 – 3:14:07

Mm.

Sen. Lee (UT)3:14:07 – 3:14:09

you've gotta have a a warrant, uh,

Kash Patel (Witness)3:14:09 – 3:14:10

It's true.

Sen. Lee (UT)3:14:10 – 3:18:37

to conduct a search or a seizure. Um, now, that principle is obviously important, plays a prominent role in our criminal justice system. Um, but it's um, it, it doesn't become irrelevant. Eh, there's not an exception for it that exists simply because there's a national security investigation underway. There's nothing about national security that it, that walls uh, the American people off from that protection guaranteed guaranteed by the Fourth Amendment. Um, now, section seven O two of FISA, um, authorizes the US government to collect information on non-US citizens, uh, who are reasonably believed to be outside the United States at the time of any investigation being conducted. And it says that for that class of individuals, you can collect on them without following the warrant requirement of the Fourth Amendment, which of course, in addition to requiring that the reasons for the warrant, um, uh, uh, be stated with some, uh, degree of specificity. It also has a particularity requirement, requiring the government to explain, uh, uh, the, the, the persons or places or papers to be seized, and to describe them with particularity. So that it has to be more than just, you know, uh, we believe crimes are being committed, go find evidence against it. You, you've gotta describe w- w- it with some degree of particularity. what it is that you want to search, uh, what or who it is that you want to search or seize. Now, under FISA seven O two, um, i- it is lawful for the government to collect that information as to non-U. S. citizens operating outside the United States. No one on this committee, I believe no one in the Senate, perhaps no one in the House either, is challenging the government's ability to do that as to foreign nationals operating outside the United States, uh, uh, you know, within the scope of what FISA authorizes. What we're talking about here is not necessarily the collection itself, or the government's ability to conduct investigations like that, but rather what to do with that information that is gained through what we sometimes refer to as incidental collect, uh, collection. Meaning an American citizen operating in the United States of America may, knowingly or unknowingly, have some communication with someone outside the United States, who is a foreign national, who is subject to a legitimate ongoing FISA seven O two investigation. And it's those collections, that information, especially from an unwitting, uh, uh, law-abiding U S citizen who doesn't know that he or she may be communicating with a a target of a FISA seven O two investigation. What do you do with those incidentally collected communications by US citizens that you have? That really is the focus of most of the debate in Congress. Regarding Pfizer seven O two is whether the government ought to have some sort of additional requirement. Something um, reflecting the interests protected by the fourth amendment. Uh, when they go to search those incidentally collected communications, private communications. of American citizens. Uh, now, we we've already uh explored the fact that FISA seven O two lapsed effective June twelfth of this year I believe but of course uh under existing law the ongoing um investigations are allowed to continue. In fact, full FISA seven O two collection is allowed to continue uh a until the expiration of the current operating order issued by the foreign intelligence surveillance court, which I believe doesn't expire until sometime in the spring of twenty twenty seven. But between now and then, we do need to address this. Uh, will you commit to working with us, uh, uh, uh, to make sure that the rights protected by the fourth amendment, uh, as held by the American people are taken, taken into account with anything we do with FISA, FISA seven O two. And just tell us your thoughts on that matter.

Kash Patel (Witness)3:18:37 – 3:19:30

i will i've always been committed to make sure we uphold the constitution and especially american citizens rights they're under um related to the fourth amendment and as you know the the challenge with the queries uh that you're referring to for us persons is the fact that we are blocked off from the lawfully collected information of non-uspers overseas all we have of the usper that may have been in contact with the non-USPR overseas is a selector, a email address or a phone number. And without the ability to look at the information that was collected, we don't have any way of analyzing what they were in contact about. So that's the difficulty. And if there was an expedient way to both meet the metrics that you're talking about and solve our operational equities I'm all in support of that.

Sen. Lee (UT)3:19:30 – 3:21:26

Right. Um wh- why would it be too much to ask? that the Bureau, uh, when doing a query for incidentally collected c- private communications by US citizens, that that be preceded by some other step, other step in which they go to a court, they go to the FISA court, for example, and they, uh, i- identify, um, uh, the fact that they know they're going after um, incidentally collected private communications by US citizens and articulate some connection to the national security investigation proper under FISA seven O two in order to justify what they're doing. In other words, eh, uh, we're told time and time again, I've been asking about this, uh, for basically the entirety of the fifteen years that I've served on this committee. um, been told over and over again when this comes up, don't worry, our internal procedures are good, our agents are sound, they're not going to abuse it. But that, that hasn't fixed anything. It's one of the reasons why the Fourth Amendment exists, frankly, is because, uh, not everybody, uh, uh, follows, um, uh, procedure, not everybody is going to be looking out for the best interests of everyone else. And we know of specific instances where this provision of this law has been abused. And so, that's why it seems to me that there ought to be some sort of showing that's made, um, uh, something that, um, plays the role of, of a warrant there to bring us into compliance with the Fourth Amendment, with the spirit and letter of the Fourth Amendment, when it comes to querying US person, uh, incidentally collected private communications. It, can you respond to that briefly?

Kash Patel (Witness)3:21:26 – 3:22:02

Yes, if I ca- I'm, I realize we're over. But yeah, so, real quick. So, in a normal criminal case we'd make a presentation uh to a magistrate on a robbery case we'd say hey there's a red car there's an individual running away he had blonde hair a tattoo on his right hand um that's how criminal investigations and most national security investigations go in the instance of queries which are little different we're flying blind we don't have access to that information we don't know what we don't know and we wouldn't be able to establish a predicate probable cause because we don't have access to the information.

Sen. Lee (UT)3:22:02 – 3:22:23

OK, what about just requiring them to certify that this is connected to a particular investigation? That's why they need to do it and it has nothing to do with an agent wanting to vet a potential tenant for his rental property, vet a romantic interest, investigate his father uh uh for uh a suspected extramarital affair. These are real world examples. That's what I'm talking about.

Kash Patel (Witness)3:22:23 – 3:22:33

Yeah, we are over ninety nine percent compliant on our seven O two queries for the first history and i'm always looking for ways to um solve the issues so that we can have seven O two stay alive so i'm not i

Sen. Lee (UT)3:22:33 – 3:22:35

great let's put those in law and require them to go to court

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:22:35 – 3:22:49

before i before i call on senator boker in light of senator lee's reference to the elon musk email that i made public today i'm going to introduce it into the record without objection senator boker

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:22:52 – 3:23:26

director in an interview with breitbart news on may twenty twenty two you stated that you were present when president trump declassified documents at mar-a-lago you said that trump had quote declassified whole sets of materials in anticipation of leaving government you told the wall street journal in august of twenty twenty two that you witnessed trump issue verbal declassification orders particularly related to the fbi's investigation of links between the trump campaign and russia near the end of his administration Do you stand by that statement today?

Kash Patel (Witness)3:23:27 – 3:23:27

Yes.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:23:28 – 3:23:32

Have you ever made a false statement before a grand jury?

Kash Patel (Witness)3:23:32 – 3:23:33

Nope.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:23:36 – 3:24:08

Director, on May twelfth of this year, before the Senate Appropriations Committee, you testified, and I'm quoting you, " I can tell you unequivocally this FBI is targeting and investigating no journalists." End quote. But in March of this year after Elizabeth Williamson of the New York Times reported that you used a full-time FBI SWAT detail to protect and drive your girlfriend. Your agents interviewed your girlfriend about Mrs. William, Ms. Williamson's reporting. Is that true?

Kash Patel (Witness)3:24:09 – 3:24:13

Why are you talking about my loved ones who have been threatened based on the lies that have been put.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:24:12 – 3:24:14

I did not ask you. It's a yes or no question.

Kash Patel (Witness)3:24:14 – 3:24:16

Hang on. I'm you ask me a question and I'm gonna answer it.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:24:15 – 3:24:19

It's a yes or no quest I'm gonna take your failure to answer as a affirmation.

Kash Patel (Witness)3:24:17 – 3:24:22

We are not. I'm we are we You can take it as whatever you want.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:24:20 – 3:24:26

Your agents ran Elizabeth Williamson's name through federal databases to gather information about her, yes or no.

Kash Patel (Witness)3:24:27 – 3:24:30

You can say whatever lies you want. We're not gonna participate in it.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:24:29 – 3:24:32

Lies? Is it a lie? Are you saying that that is not a fact?

Kash Patel (Witness)3:24:33 – 3:24:37

Stop tar- stop falsely attacking me and my loved ones.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:24:33 – 3:24:38

That Miss Williamson's Yes or no. I am not

Kash Patel (Witness)3:24:37 – 3:24:40

We have seen multiple people threaten our lives,

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:24:40 – 3:24:42

Chairman, I'm asking yes or no questions.

Kash Patel (Witness)3:24:40 – 3:24:42

convicted in federal court,

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:24:42 – 3:24:43

I'm not making an attack.

Kash Patel (Witness)3:24:42 – 3:24:44

based on this line of attack.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:24:44 – 3:24:45

Mister Chairman.

Kash Patel (Witness)3:24:44 – 3:24:46

So I'm not gonna participate in it.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:24:46 – 3:24:49

Chairman. I'm asking yes or no questions about activities of the fbi

Kash Patel (Witness)3:24:49 – 3:24:50

i've answered it

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:24:50 – 3:24:50

i

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:24:50 – 3:24:52

that as a matter of oversight i have a right to do

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:24:53 – 3:25:03

uh i'm not going to normally i would say but this seems to be a personal thing to him and and the extent to which he is concerned

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:25:02 – 3:30:02

it it is interesting that he is using resources from the fbi in a way that he is not willing to be transparent and open about his agents recommended moving forward to determine whether a new york times reporter violated federal stalking law The Department of Justice, though, ended it. They said he could no longer do this because there was no legal basis. And it looked like retaliation against this particular reporter. The fact that he will not discuss it, the fact that he won't be transparent and accountable, to me is a further indication of him using FBI resources for his own personal benefit. Now, he continues to attack the press. In earlier, when it comes to the uh the New York Times, the, on April twenty-second, his borough gave a a written statement to the New York Times. They said that investigations, investigators are concerned about aggressive techniques and crossing lines. He again goes on public where he's willing to discuss things on Fox News. He said to Sean Hannity, no, no, no, there's no investigation of reporters going on. He seems comfortable discussing things on Twitter and with Fox News that he's not willing to discuss here. His bureau investigators were concerned a reporter crossed lines. And there was no a- and then he said there was no absolute there was absolutely no investigation. One of those two occasions, he is lying. Now, let's the ref- record reflect that the director is declining to even discuss this. The record has your bureau's written statement. We have Hannity's public denial, where you are clearly willing to talk about these matters. We have your May twelfth testimony. None of these line up. Somewhere you're lying. The message that every reporter in America is getting right now is that we have an FBI director that is attacking the most vaunted of our amendments, which is our first one, freedom of the press. If you write about this director, this FBI will run your name through government databases. That's not law enforcement. That is this man before us using a police agency to settle personal grievances about a story that embarrassed him. And this is not a one-time thing, mister Patel. You do it often. In July, you did it again. And this time, a federal judge had to stop you. In July, the New York Times reported on security problems with an airplane from Qatar given to the president. Within two days, you personally went to the White House and spent the better part of a day directing subpoenas against the reporters who wrote it. Not a leaker, you went after the reporters. Grand jury subpoenas were served on three New York Times reporters, Armed FBI agents went to their homes. You subpoenaed their phone company for their call records. You subpoenaed the records of one reporter's mother. You get upset when somebody writes a fair story about your girlfriend, but you're out there using the FBI to go after a reporter's mom. You subpoenaed the records of two reporters' spouses, not their girlfriends, but their spouses. This is a fact pattern. Director, the president was secretly shuttled from the Qatari jet via an airport catering truck to a smaller air force jet on July eighth. The story ran the next day on July ninth. You demanded those reporters' phone records, but you didn't just go back to this period. As an act of further intimidation of reporters, you went back six months all the way to January first, before there was even a story. Six months before there could even been a leak. There was no crime in January. The judge admonished you for this. The judge saw this for what it was, an abuse of power. On July twenty third, a federal judge in Manhattan took this up. He told your government's lawyer he would throw out every one of those subpoenas. He r- raised rather to sanction your lawyers for false statements in sworn applications. Your own lawyers conceded that there was inadvertent errors, end quote, in their filings. Director, you talked a lot about your making history. Has any federal judge in the entire history of the FBI ever asked whether to sanction the government for what it's sub-war in a subpoena application, do you know that?

Kash Patel (Witness)3:30:03 – 3:30:05

Yes, I do, they have, but we weren't targeting journalists.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:30:05 – 3:30:07

No, sir, they haven't.

Kash Patel (Witness)3:30:05 – 3:30:09

We were targeting the leakers of classified information.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:30:07 – 3:30:10

You are making history. You are abusing this office.

Kash Patel (Witness)3:30:09 – 3:30:12

If you're gonna continue to mischaracterize our work,

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:30:11 – 3:30:13

I'm not characterizing it,

Kash Patel (Witness)3:30:12 – 3:30:14

you're not gonna participate in it.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:30:13 – 3:30:15

I am stating a fact pattern,

Kash Patel (Witness)3:30:15 – 3:30:16

Go ahead.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:30:15 – 3:30:42

nothing have I said is not supported in the facts of your agency. You're unwilling to offer transparency here and talk about things, to deal with your girlfriend. But you should talk about your personal behavior. This isn't a personal vendetta. Senators on both sides of the aisle should have to know why are you using FBI resources in ways that benefit yourself and your family and your girlfriend,

Kash Patel (Witness)3:30:40 – 3:30:43

Not. I'm not.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:30:42 – 3:32:56

but you won't even answer questions. And yet, like a thug, you're using your agency to go after reporters in a chill to one of the most sacrosanct ideals of the United States of America. They can pass you all the notes they want. But the truth is clear. Right now, you are stonewalling this committee for asking simple questions of accountability on how you are using government resources to go after reporters. And yes, there is a chill out there. Reporters like, you like, like Hannity, you give them all the information they want. You answer their questions. Reporters you don't like, you subpoena their mother's records. Mister Director, I have one last pattern of questions. You announced in your life, in your, excuse me, in your term, you've announced investigations against a plot on the UFC on the White House lawn. You've publicly discussed charges against the Southern Poverty Law Center. You discussed the seven sixty-four network investigation policy. You are very chattery when it comes to investigations when they are not talked about before this committee. But here, here, you stonewall us. So let me put this together. A reporter wrote about you and your bureau ran her name through records and began an investigation. Reporters wrote about the president and your burr bureau went to their homes and subpoenaed their mothers. And the one investigation you promised Congress The one that President said himself should happen is the one I wanna talk about. You said that when the President claimed that there was a forgery in the Epstein files, that the card he sent you promised this committee and others that you would investigate that forgery, that a forged document in a child's sex traffickers' birthday book you said you would investigate. Has there been any investigation Any witnesses, interviewed, any names on on what you promised us you would do when it comes to that birthday book?

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:32:57 – 3:33:17

Before you answer that question, uh, I said at the opening, I'd give you some time to respond, if you, as long as you didn't talk over people. And I think you've been very reserved in that. So answer his question and then I'll give you time before I call on Senator

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:33:17 – 3:33:20

Graham. In that testimony before the house.

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:33:19 – 3:33:19

Where.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:33:21 – 3:33:23

Where you said clearly you would launch an investigation,

Kash Patel (Witness)3:33:24 – 3:33:24

I got your question.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:33:24 – 3:33:25

have that investigation, but.

Kash Patel (Witness)3:33:24 – 3:33:26

He's allowing me to answer it.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:33:26 – 3:33:27

Yeah, answer please.

Kash Patel (Witness)3:33:27 – 3:33:30

I am. You gonna stop? You done?

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:33:30 – 3:33:34

Do you want some? Do you want some time to speak about it and.

Kash Patel (Witness)3:33:33 – 3:33:34

Sure. If you give it to me.

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:33:34 – 3:33:35

Go ahead.

Kash Patel (Witness)3:33:35 – 3:33:45

Sure. The Obama administration subpoenaed countless reporters. Did twelve hundred interviews of reporters in an investigation into reporters. This administration.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:33:56 – 3:34:00

Mister Chairman, this is still my time. He can answer at the end of my time, but this is still my time.

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:33:59 – 3:34:02

Be- no, no, he's not, your time's up.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:34:02 – 3:34:03

No, sir, my time is not up.

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:34:02 – 3:34:02

I-

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:34:03 – 3:34:07

You allowed Mike Lee to go two and a half minutes over,

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:34:04 – 3:34:05

No, I'm

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:34:07 – 3:34:09

but you're the Democratic Senator, you're gonna cut off?

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:34:09 – 3:34:14

At a at a previous meeting I let you go three uh here in global

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:34:13 – 3:34:17

As you have other people, I have one more quest- line of questioning to give.

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:34:16 – 3:34:18

Oh. No he's uh he

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:34:18 – 3:34:25

So mister, th- then I'll make my concluding remark and you can do whatever you want, sir. My concluding remark is, we don't have an FBI director, we have a lackey here,

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:34:25 – 3:34:26

OK.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:34:26 – 3:34:30

who is using and uh frankly, he's not even a good lackey, he's an incompetent lackey.

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:34:30 – 3:34:30

OK.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:34:30 – 3:35:18

He's like an eighteen year old kid who wants to join a fraternity that he could never be a member of, doing keg stands and chugging with friends. He's an embarrassment to the agency. and wouldn't qualify even to be an FBI agent, sir. He won't answer questions for a committee. He insults Democrats here and you don't step in. Your He has a little book by his side that he literally is using to try your to intimidate people in the same way he intimidates reporters. Your time is up. He is a disgrace, sir. And the fact that we are not asking him, in fact, demanding him to answer the most best basic oversight questions, is a further testimony to what is bad, is not just that we have a rogue FBI agent intimidating reporters what's bad is that we have Republicans in the Senate that are enabling him to go without any objective oversight,

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:35:15 – 3:35:15

Wait.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:35:18 – 3:35:20

or transparency, or accountability.

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:35:20 – 3:35:21

Why do you,

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:35:21 – 3:35:23

How many time how many times did White House

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:35:21 – 3:35:30

why do you, why do you, why do you, why do you figure you're something special? Now we've had one re- we've had one we one Republican go over,

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:35:26 – 3:35:33

I I'm not special. My time has now just Mike, sir, you are not being balanced in your way.

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:35:30 – 3:35:34

and we have one Democrat go over. Let's uh

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:35:34 – 3:35:36

My time has just now reached what Mike Lee did.

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:35:35 – 3:35:37

let's Let's give

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:35:37 – 3:35:43

And we as a committee have done what you've done before, which is ask him to answer basic questions. He won't even do it in writing.

Kash Patel (Witness)3:35:43 – 3:35:43

Uh-huh.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:35:43 – 3:35:54

This is a mockery and a sham. We have a rogue agent intimidating the press, violating people's First Amendment rights, and doing everything the president has.

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:35:52 – 3:35:59

You don't show You don't show much respect for your chairman. You you've gone on now for three minutes.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:35:57 – 3:36:00

Sir, I I have utter respect for you. In fact, I have love for you,

Kash Patel (Witness)3:35:59 – 3:36:00

Uh-huh.

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:36:00 – 3:36:03

We're going we're going we're going you.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:36:00 – 3:36:04

and this is why I know this is not who you are.

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:36:04 – 3:36:05

We're we're going to go.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:36:04 – 3:36:56

You are not holding this witness in an objective way to answer the questions that are given to him by Democratic senators yet he insults them time and time again. What he did to Senator Walsh should make this whole committee stand up and walk out and sanction this man for speaking to one of my colleagues, the way he spoke to them. Even Senator Whitehouse, who was then sitting in, tried to control this witness who makes everything personal. I have a right to ask questions about how he's spending money on his girlfriend. And yet he stonewalls me, but will run on Fox News and talk about any and all these issues. This is ridiculous. This is a sham. And what's bad is not the person sitting there who's a mockery to the office he holds. What ba- is bad is the people that are enabling him to do so.

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:36:56 – 3:37:12

You understand, mister Director, why during the Kavanaugh hearings I uh let people talk and talk because it takes longer to shut them up than it does to let them talk. Now you go ahead and say what you wanted to say.

Kash Patel (Witness)3:37:12 – 3:37:20

I don't have much to say. This guy called me a thug. It's kind of ironic. He's running for president of the United States. He just got his twenty second ad campaign. Next.

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:37:21 – 3:37:30

Senator Graham. I think Senator Graham sucks. Yeah, were you done?

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:37:29 – 3:37:30

Thanks.

Kash Patel (Witness)3:37:31 – 3:37:32

I'm done. Somebody behind me is yelling.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:37:35 – 3:37:48

Yeah brother, I will repeat what you said, you're getting thrown out but they can't throw me out. I'm gonna hold this man accountable for as long as he is in his job until he gets fired, which he probably will, cuz he's incompetent at his job and continues to do things that merit his removal.

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:37:48 – 3:37:49

Sir.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:37:48 – 3:37:50

Yes, shame on you, sir.

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:37:49 – 3:37:51

Rector Patel, were you done?

Kash Patel (Witness)3:37:52 – 3:37:58

By the way, violent crime arrests by the FBI in New Jersey are up seventy five percent, on top of the historic results we've already delivered for the American people.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:37:58 – 3:37:58

Yeah,

Kash Patel (Witness)3:37:58 – 3:38:01

And irrespective of irrespective of the lies that he

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:37:58 – 3:38:04

thanks to the state police and local police officers. Sir, nothing I have said here is a lie.

Kash Patel (Witness)3:38:04 – 3:38:06

You said your time's up. Are you done or not?

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:38:06 – 3:38:07

No, you're done or not, sir.

Kash Patel (Witness)3:38:06 – 3:38:08

Or you wanna go, you wanna go run up to the media and talk to the microphone?

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:38:07 – 3:38:11

You you won't answer my questions. If you want my questions, go to the next person.

Kash Patel (Witness)3:38:10 – 3:38:11

Go ahead.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:38:11 – 3:38:13

This is ridiculous. What a mockery you are.

Kash Patel (Witness)3:38:13 – 3:38:16

You are the biggest mockery in the United States Senate and you're sitting next to Schiff.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:38:16 – 3:38:18

Yeah, well, eight million people in New Jersey don't think so.

Sen. Graham (SC)3:38:18 – 3:38:19

Done.

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:38:19 – 3:38:21

At least I didn't get my job the way you got your job, sir.

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:38:21 – 3:38:23

Are y- are you going to interfere with Senator Graham,

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:38:21 – 3:38:22

Just like

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:38:23 – 3:38:25

asking her questions too?

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:38:24 – 3:38:26

I certainly will not.

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:38:25 – 3:38:28

Two as well? Or are you done now?

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:38:27 – 3:38:28

I certainly will not.

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:38:28 – 3:38:30

Are you ready to, are you ready to

Sen. Booker (NJ)3:38:28 – 3:38:33

I've d- I am d- I am done. I am done, sir. Senator Graham.

Sen. Graham (SC)3:38:34 – 3:44:36

Thank you, Mister Chairman, and thank you, Director Patel, for being here today and for your continued service to this country. And hang in there, it's almost over. I represent the people of South Carolina, and back home, law and order isn't a slogan, it's just common sense. It's whether our police officers feel backed by the federal government, it's whether the fentanyl coming across our southern borders end up in our small towns and it's whether South Carolinians and Americans at large feel safe in our communities. So, Director, I want to spend the bulk of my time reiterating and laying out for the record and for the people of South Carolina what the data actually shows since President Trump was sworn in and since you took over the bureau and how it compares to the disaster of the four years before you got here. The Democrats have focused on negativity. I want to focus on the positives. Director, you have reported that since January twenty twenty five, the FBI has made close to fifty four thousand violent offender arrests, a ninety percent increase from the previous eighteen months. You've also reported a roughly twenty point drop in the national homicide rate during that same window, alongside a one hundred and ninety seven percent increase in total arrests. On the child safety front, and this is the one that matters most to parents in South Carolina, You've reported that nearly eleven thousand child victims have been located since you took the job. And that five thousand child predators and human traffickers have been arrested. That's not a talking point, director, that's kids who are at home instead of in danger. And on the drug front, which hits South Carolina as hard as anywhere, the bureau reported seizing more than three thousand two hundred kilograms of fentanyl since January of twenty twenty five. on top of capturing ten of the Bureau's most, ten most wanted fugitives. Mister Director, I wanna highlight something that doesn't get enough credit. A secure border makes this Bureau stronger. When DHS keeps crossings down, it means fewer demands on federal law enforcement across the board. And that gives the FBI more room to do what it does best. We need to do everything in our power to secure the border and deport criminal illegal aliens so that the FBI can focus on its law enforcement mission. Some public officials like California Governor Gavin Newsom do not seem to agree. That's why I am a cosponsor of the End Sanctuary Cities Act, which would impose criminal penalties on public officials who obstruct the enforcement of federal immigration law. A secure border, a secure interior, and a focused FBI go hand in hand. Director Patel, I want to focus next on a threat that is harming and increasingly more cases taking the lives of our children. Online sexual exploitation. I wanna start with a network that has received a lot of attention recently from law enforcement and Congress. The online network known as seven six four. The FBI has described seven six four as a violent nihilistic online group that targets vulnerable young people online and coerces them into committing grotesque violence against themselves or others. Currently, the FBI is actively investigating more than four hundred and fifty subjects tied to seven six four and similar violent online extremist networks, including active investigations spanning across all fifty-six field offices. Just last month, the DOJ announced the conviction of twenty-seven year old Kyle William Spitz, who was sentenced to seventy-seven years in prison for his participation in seven six four. What concerns me is that this is not simply a problem happening on some obscure corner of the internet. These predators can find children on social media platforms that millions of American kids use every day. I specifically want to highlight a South Carolina family whose experience illustrates this crisis. In twenty twenty two, seventeen year old Gavin Guffey was the victim of an online sextortion scheme. that led to him committing suicide. His father, South Carolina Representative Brandon Guffey, has turned his family's unimaginable grief into action by passing Gavin's law, which strengthened South Carolina's penalties for sexual extortion, especially involving minor victims. But the story did not end at the state line. The FBI and the federal prosecutors continued pursuing Gavin's exploiter and identified a twenty-four year old Nigerian National. In Twen- January, twenty twenty five, he was extradited to the United States and is facing serious federal charges, including child exploitation resulting in death and cyber-stalking resulting in death. Director Patel, no American family should have to suffer in the way that Brandon Guffey and his family have suffered. We cannot bring Gavin back, but we can make sure that his death leads to stronger investigations faster international cooperation, greater accountability for predators, and better protections for our children online. Director, the people of South Carolina want law and order. They care about whether their kids are safe, whether fentanyl is getting harder to find on their streets, and whether the men and women wearing the badge have the backing of this government. Based on what I've just laid out, I believe the direction that President Trump and you have charted is the right one. And I want to use my remaining time to ask you a couple of specific questions about how we build on it. So, my first question is, do sanctuary state policies make the FBI's job more difficult and more dangerous? And would a bill like the End Sanctuary Cities Act help improve public safety?

Kash Patel (Witness)3:44:36 – 3:45:01

Absolutely, Senator. We would need that bill, um, to be able to break through the logjam that's been created by sanctuary city policies who harbor not only just illegal immigrants, but violent offenders, gangbangers, drug traffickers, firearms transporters, um, and even domestic terrorists, and also child rapists. So, anything that we can do legislatively to give the FBI more authorities to go in there and root out that evil is something I'll support.

Sen. Graham (SC)3:45:02 – 3:45:10

OK, thank you. Also, from your perspective as FBI Director, what do you see as the greatest domestic security threat facing our country?

Kash Patel (Witness)3:45:12 – 3:45:40

The the mechanism of the threat is the cyber landscape the greatest single security threat is the perpetration of violence through the online space be it upon our children be it upon our institutions of worship or be it upon our elected leadership like we saw um at the u. f. c. two fifty event or like we saw in the synagogues and center of cloverchurch jurisdiction but also the predators that are child predators

Sen. Graham (SC)3:46:07 – 3:46:13

Thank you. Is there anything Congress isn't giving you the authority or funding to do that would help you keep this pace up?

Kash Patel (Witness)3:46:14 – 3:46:36

Well, it's always about funding, Senator, which I appreciate it. So, you know, the FBI hasn't seen a budgetary increase in six years. And we've already accomplished this historic reduction in crime with what we have. But if we had more, we could buy more equipment, modernize our infrastructure even more so than we've already done. Um, and also bring in new people and, um, expand our partnership. So any increase in budget is greatly appreciated.

Sen. Graham (SC)3:46:37 – 3:46:39

OK. Thank you. I have no further questions.

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:46:43 – 3:48:33

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Director Patel, I'm gonna I know several of my colleagues have asked questions about the upcoming elections and you've responded to questions about whether there's plans to deploy agents to uh polling places or not. I'm gonna ask a related but uh different and specific question in the spirit of trying to be constructive and productive here. uh the department of justice pursuant to a long-standing policy of not interfering in elections refrains from engaging in quote this is from your website over my shoulder here quote overt criminal investigative measures in matters involving alleged ballot ballot fraud until the election in question has been concluded its results certified and all recounts and election contests concluded uh i mean i i i raise this concern because it was not that long ago that the uh fbi seized ballots in fulton county georgia it was earlier this year uh particularly given that the affidavit submitted to the federal court magistrate to justify that seizure was based on unverified intelligence and uh now granted this was ballots from a prior election not a current election uh it did inspire a copycat move in the state of california my home state where the sheriff of Riverside County sees six hundred and fifty thousand ballots cast from a prior election. I wanna be encouraged and folks back home want to feel comfort in number one, this still being the policy of the FBI. Number two, uh, to quote from a letter from Chairman of Joint Chiefs of Staff, uh, General Dan Kane to Senator Slotkin in which he says, the joint force has no plans to use such personnel to seize ballots, voting machines, or other election related material. my question to you is can you make the same commitment

Kash Patel (Witness)3:48:33 – 3:48:34

yes

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:48:35 – 3:49:44

thank you uh appreciate that uh clear concise and on the record uh my next question uh wanna follow up on a one of senator uh kennedy's line of question oh actually let me move to a different topic a year ago this committee uh convened to exercise its oversight responsibility like we're doing here today to get uh answers to critical questions about the fbi s activities under your leadership uh i know other colleagues have reminded you of some of the pledges and statements you made that day uh that you're committed to full transparency to oversight and accountability and to restore the public's trust in the fbi and you made that promise again here today but as senator whitehouse alluded earlier it's been almost a year and we still haven't gotten responses no answers to our questions for the record that were submitted last year so two part question for you one when can we expect question uh responses to last year's questions number one and number two when can we expect answers to question for the record submitted after today's hearing

Kash Patel (Witness)3:49:44 – 3:49:48

so the first part those those questions have been answered and they're supposed to be delivered to you

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:49:48 – 3:49:49

well they have not been

Kash Patel (Witness)3:49:50 – 3:49:53

well they have to go through the department of justice and omb so

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:49:52 – 3:49:53

so when can we expect them

Kash Patel (Witness)3:49:54 – 3:49:58

i'll have to contact my colleagues there and get an answer but we but i but uh

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:49:55 – 3:49:58

we need an answer as soon as possible and when can we

Kash Patel (Witness)3:49:59 – 3:50:00

We'll do them, turn around and

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:50:00 – 3:50:02

Can we get them by the end of October?

Kash Patel (Witness)3:50:01 – 3:50:03

as fa- as fast as we can.

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:50:04 – 3:50:14

Well, if last year's any indicator, that's clearly not fast, not fast enough, not consistent with your pledge of uh transparency and accountability and responsiveness.

Kash Patel (Witness)3:50:14 – 3:50:17

If I may, the end of October is pretty reasonable, so we can abide by that.

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:50:18 – 3:50:19

We're talking about last year's. It's been a year.

Kash Patel (Witness)3:50:20 – 3:50:21

No, they, those are done. I've answered them.

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:50:21 – 3:50:21

But they're not.

Kash Patel (Witness)3:50:22 – 3:50:25

I, I don't know what else to tell you. We've answered them. If they

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:50:24 – 3:50:26

Well, they ha- how about you deliver them?

Kash Patel (Witness)3:50:26 – 3:50:29

i don't i'm not the one that delivers them the doj and omb do

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:50:29 – 3:50:59

mister let me move on to a different topic um now the ai has been mentioned a few times today it's been a hot topic since uh reporting over the weekend of the developments in the ai space um first the prospect of rogue ai agents is obviously top of mind uh because of the uh autonomous agents hacking into hugging face uh and i imagine it's also top of mind for you given that hugging face apparently reported the cyber attack to the FBI. Is that correct?

Kash Patel (Witness)3:51:00 – 3:51:04

Partially. The rest of that is, we can talk about a classified setting.

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:51:04 – 3:51:15

OK, but at least partially been r- it's been reported to the FBI. Uh, it's on your radar. So my question is, what steps is the FBI taking to investigate this cyber attack specifically?

Kash Patel (Witness)3:51:17 – 3:51:59

That cyber attack specifically is going to be investigated the same way, investigate all cyber attacks of that nature. what we do is if it involves a private sector partner we ask to get on their platform with our cyber action team our cat teams which we deploy readily that's step one the faster we get on just like a kidnapping situation the faster we can get to the end result step two is seeing if there was any exfiltration of data and what type of data was exfiltrated and step three is kicking off the intruder and securing the network so we will do all those things and then we'll trace that back to the individuals nation state keyboard people personnel that were responsible for that attack and also hold them accountable by working with our DOJ partners.

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:51:58 – 3:52:04

so as a follow-up a specific policy and technical question cause it seems like we're in a new frontier here

Kash Patel (Witness)3:52:02 – 3:52:04

mmm mmm

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:52:04 – 3:52:17

uh what protocols or procedures are different if any given that these were autonomous non-human actors that have been accused of committing these crimes

Kash Patel (Witness)3:52:16 – 3:52:44

so the difference is is someone created them right so for us the approach is the same we while we look at it as a let's just call it an electronic entity someone made them for the specific deployment and just like any other program that we have if it's for a good lawful use we're fine if it's for an ill-intended unlawful use we're gonna go after the entity and the people that created that system if they intentionally deployed it to cause that result

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:52:44 – 3:52:57

so to be clear for the people watching at home who is it then that you are investigating or will hold accountable if the information you come across warrants indictments charges etcetera

Kash Patel (Witness)3:52:57 – 3:52:59

companies personnel whoever is responsible

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:53:00 – 3:53:13

ok not just the systems themselves um and just out of curiosity because ai is being utilized is in in the course of the fbi's work investigations and otherwise what safeguards have you put in place to

Kash Patel (Witness)3:53:09 – 3:53:10

mmm

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:53:13 – 3:53:18

monitor prevent to respond to ai agents going rogue within the fbi systems

Kash Patel (Witness)3:53:18 – 3:53:57

so there's a there's a ton. So, we don't just bring in AI and let it run loose. We take it in as a test use case by case basis, and then we test it on a specific set of data, either at a headquarters component or one specific field office. Then we get feedback on whether or not that AI capabilities in large language models abided by our policy and DOJ mandates in the law, or if it did not. And based on that analysis, we either deploy it out to the field or we don't. And so we're gonna continue that effort every time an AI system comes in, that's the exact pattern that we execute at the FBI to make sure there's no breaking free, for lack of a better phrase, of AI to run rampant.

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:53:57 – 3:54:02

Any AI systems that did not uh act uh appropriately?

Kash Patel (Witness)3:54:03 – 3:54:08

To date of the hundred and forty test cases that, use cases that we've brought in, uh, under my tenure, uh, no.

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:54:10 – 3:54:59

Uh, let me now turn to the FBI's role in investigating shootings, and specifically shootings involving ICE and CBP personnel. uh now standard practice has been under when a federal law enforcement uses deadly force there is an independent determination of what happened and whether that use of force was warranted or not and whether any federal laws may have been violated uh so this is also little bit of a follow-up from a question from senator klobuchar report indicate that in july field offices received guidance to stop investigating confrontations with immigration enforcement officials or agents involved with immigration enforcement. Yes or no? Did you or your leadership team instruct field offices to stop investigating excessive use of force by ICE or CBP?

Kash Patel (Witness)3:54:59 – 3:54:59

No.

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:55:00 – 3:55:09

So, can you reiterate for for me and for the committee and for the public, what is the current guidance, uh, to field offices as it pertains to these types of investigations?

Kash Patel (Witness)3:55:09 – 3:55:18

Every single investigation is different, depending on the location, depending on who the officer is we have to bring in the lead the lead home agency if it's one of theirs one of ours

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:55:17 – 3:55:19

but every incident is investigated

Kash Patel (Witness)3:55:19 – 3:55:23

so but every incident to my knowledge is investigated through the inter-agency process

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:55:23 – 3:55:26

with fbi participation in those investigations

Kash Patel (Witness)3:55:26 – 3:55:31

yes and we're always called in we're always asked to participate cause we have some technical capabilities that other agencies don't

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:55:30 – 3:55:34

but are you the lead on these investigations or you just there to answer any questions they may

Kash Patel (Witness)3:55:33 – 3:55:35

that varies on a case by case basis

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:55:35 – 3:55:43

but you should be the lead on these investigations independence of these investigations is critical for true accountability.

Kash Patel (Witness)3:55:44 – 3:55:47

We also need the agencies that employ these agents.

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:55:46 – 3:55:49

But they can participate. I'm talking about who's in the lead here.

Kash Patel (Witness)3:55:49 – 3:55:54

Well, that's a determination made at the inter-agency level on a case-by-case basis. We don't have a blanket rule.

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:55:54 – 3:56:08

Um, can you comment on the status of investigations on the shootings of uh Juan Sebastian Guerrero or Lorenzo Salgado Araujo or any of the twenty-three shootings involving ICER CBP?

Kash Patel (Witness)3:56:09 – 3:56:13

I'll have to get back to you on those. because again i'd have to go talk to my dhs partners once it's done

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:56:12 – 3:56:20

look i know some of these shootings and incidents have been more recent but some go back months and months and months some to last year

Kash Patel (Witness)3:56:20 – 3:56:22

right especially if they're ongoing i definitely wouldn't be able to comment

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:56:22 – 3:56:23

so why does it take so long

Kash Patel (Witness)3:56:24 – 3:56:31

because these most investigations take long most investigations take months if not years depending on the nature of the investigation

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:56:31 – 3:56:32

not always the case

Kash Patel (Witness)3:56:31 – 3:56:33

i didn't set that standard

Sen. Padilla (CA)3:56:33 – 3:56:46

not always the case um well look forward to asking follow-ups to these questions and additional questions on additional subjects in our questions for the record which God I hope doesn't take you a year to respond. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:56:47 – 3:56:48

Senator Telus.

Sen. Welch (VT)3:56:48 – 3:56:52

Director Patel, welcome to the committee. It's good to good to see you.

Kash Patel (Witness)3:56:52 – 3:56:52

You too, sir.

Sen. Welch (VT)3:56:52 – 3:57:11

Um, if you would push your mike real up close to your face. Uh Um. First off, I wanted to thank you for the response, delayed it uh dated July twenty on the the request I think from the chairman here uh letter, May fifth, on the travel.

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:57:12 – 3:57:12

Mm-hmm.

Sen. Welch (VT)3:57:12 – 3:57:30

Uh, your travel patterns. I like the historic perspective as compared to your predecessor's. So I just wanted to thank you for the fulsome response and for anybody who had any questions about Director Patel versus some of his predecessors, I think maybe you're doing a much better job of mining that and being proactive so thank you for that.

Sen. Grassley (IA)3:57:30 – 3:57:31

No problem.

Sen. Welch (VT)3:57:31 – 3:58:08

Um, and Mister Chair, I'm assuming this has been submitted to the record before the response on, uh, uh, Director Patel's travel. OK. Then I won't seek uh consent to add it. Um uh I I've got a lot of questions uh. I wanna start with one, I think it came up earlier about your hiring standards, the FBI hiring standards. Uh I wanna give you a few minutes to respond, but tell me why you believe this the these refinements and hiring standards of actually improving um the process and and and and helping uh promote improving those who are coming into your ranks.

Kash Patel (Witness)3:58:08 – 3:58:37

Most importantly, we wanted to target individuals with the represent law enforcement experience, military or state or local law enforcement, if we're talking about the special agent cadre, eighteen eleven cadre. And having them wait sixteen months to go through a pipeline, which was marred with bureaucracy and administrative bloat, was something we eliminated. We did not eliminate the standards, we actually increased them. Um, we just took the fact that it shouldn't take an FBI one hundred days to respond to an applicant. just to respond

Sen. Welch (VT)3:58:38 – 3:58:41

can you give me a general idea of the academic the the experience and the

Kash Patel (Witness)3:58:38 – 3:58:38

so

Sen. Welch (VT)3:58:41 – 3:58:45

academic uh uh uh accomplishments of the type of people we're looking for here

Kash Patel (Witness)3:58:43 – 3:58:48

sure it varies if it's you know lab technicians intel analysts support staff

Sen. Welch (VT)3:58:48 – 3:58:53

but they're all well-educated well-trained experienced people

Kash Patel (Witness)3:58:52 – 3:58:57

with multiple years of law or or of work experience before applying to the f

Sen. Welch (VT)3:58:57 – 3:59:08

and and and what are we doing now in terms of trying to uh compress the cycle for applicant back from the agency what sorts of targets are you setting for that hiring process

Kash Patel (Witness)3:59:07 – 3:59:27

we just we we simply said look at the internal hiring mechanisms and don't diminish the requirements but eliminate the administrative bureaucracy so we eliminated the wait time periods that just people were waiting around and they might go and get

Sen. Welch (VT)3:59:24 – 3:59:25

oh

Kash Patel (Witness)3:59:27 – 3:59:32

hired by another agency cause most people don't have sixteen months to get a job Thank you.

Sen. Welch (VT)3:59:31 – 3:59:43

Well, even worse than that, they may never even go work in government. I might, they're already highly educated and underpaid for the skill set that they bring to the table and I will guarantee you in the business sector that I worked in,

Kash Patel (Witness)3:59:40 – 3:59:40

Mm-hmm.

Sen. Welch (VT)3:59:43 – 4:00:54

if I took a hundred days to get back with a top talent, they'd be working for somebody else. So, I think you're doing right by maintaining the standard, but recognizing these are men and women who have, uh, uh, you know, lives to move on with, uh, sometimes education debt to pay off and we should be crisp. And what's amazing to me is we all we always talk about border patrol as a classic example of how long it takes to get them uh, get them on board it, which is one of the reasons we have a hiring problem there. You're doing exactly what you need to get leaner and but not not minimize the standards, but actually hold the agency to a higher standard in hiring practices. So I appreciate you doing that. I know that was a question that somebody else raised. I'm glad you got an opportunity to clarify it. Have you made a, tell me a little bit about section seven O two. I think Senator Lee may have asked a question. I am absolutely for section seven O two. I've heard you say publicly that it's very, very difficult for you to do your job and keep America safe if you don't have these authorities. Can you tell me any more work that you've done in trying to improve best practices or take care of some of the legitimate concerns people like Senator Lee has in codifying, or seeking uh,

Kash Patel (Witness)4:00:53 – 4:00:54

Sure.

Sen. Welch (VT)4:00:54 – 4:00:55

support from Congress?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:00:54 – 4:01:14

Some of the concerns were absolutely valid, if not all. you know the a the fbi was shooting at about an eighty four percent success rate when it came to seven O two queries the biggest issue in the seven O two debate so we went in there and we eliminated the three three strike rule if you don't know how to use seven O two after your training and you use it improperly you're gone I fired two people for that just doing that

Sen. Welch (VT)4:01:14 – 4:01:14

good

Kash Patel (Witness)4:01:14 – 4:01:46

on top of that we only gave lawyers access and oversight to the seven O two queries along with the agents so there's a tandem of it but instead of seven thousand people that had access to seven O two in the fbi Now it's thirty five hundred. And for the first time in the FBI's history, our seven O two queries per the FISA court itself are over ninety nine percent compliant. So those are some of the things we've implemented internally to make sure that we are fully compliant with the statute and protecting American citizens' rights while maintaining our operational capabilities and tempo.

Sen. Welch (VT)4:01:47 – 4:01:59

Uh, uh, that's good news. What what um, uh, worry about uh lapsing with uh future uh directors or maybe maybe it should be six strikes um

Kash Patel (Witness)4:01:56 – 4:01:56

mmm

Sen. Welch (VT)4:01:59 – 4:02:41

um to what extent should we be considering putting together uh some baseline um a codification of some of these procedures i i feel like the the more that we the the more we know that these practices you're it i do believe when you make some policy changes you should put them in place for a while if you can't find really any um serious uh negative outcomes and i think we should have some staying power in codifying it because i think it could you know potentially be a better argument for future section seven O two reauthorizations have you all considered making any recommendations to this committee um about after these practices codifying these so that future directors can

Kash Patel (Witness)4:02:40 – 4:03:20

so we have we've proposed legislation um based on our policies i've said you should take some of these policies and make them into law i've said if someone intentionally abuses seven O two if you can believe it there's no statute on the books to prosecute someone for that so i wrote that statute and provided it not just to this committee but i briefed i think a hundred and seventy five members of the house last year in one setting on it including multiple briefings in the senate in front of other committees and your colleagues i think some of those things are no brainers i think if you codify the fact that if you if you intentionally misuse the query system itself you know there's always the chance with a lot of these names and selectors that the spellings are a little odd

Sen. Welch (VT)4:03:18 – 4:03:19

yeah

Kash Patel (Witness)4:03:21 – 4:03:28

for them. So if you misspell something, okay, we can deal with that, but if you intentionally misuse it, then you should be prosecuted, and we need that statute.

Sen. Welch (VT)4:03:27 – 4:03:52

Right. Um, uh, that's good to hear, and that's something that I'll, uh, speak with my staff and the, uh, the committee about. I think that's smart. It'll, it'll lend more credibility to the, uh, uh, to the process. Uh, you, I wouldn't expect you to know what the TRACE Act is. Um, but we've, uh, passed out of the house something that allows us to collect additional data. uh, for missing persons, particularly on federal land,

Kash Patel (Witness)4:03:52 – 4:03:52

Mm-hmm.

Sen. Welch (VT)4:03:52 – 4:04:15

I think Native American population. Can I get a commitment from you to review uh the bill and um determine whether or not we can get a uh position that could be an uh hopefully a positive I know when people say it's just adding a data field, I worked in this space, I know it's more complicated than that. Um, but can we get some advice as to uh from our position from the the agency

Kash Patel (Witness)4:04:15 – 4:04:15

Yes.

Sen. Welch (VT)4:04:15 – 4:04:29

as to whether or not they think it would be helpful? uh because we have a lot of missing persons on federal land we just simply need to know what we what we don't know today get your commitment to review and see if the agency is prepared to take a position on it

Kash Patel (Witness)4:04:29 – 4:04:47

we're fully committed to that because this bureau under my leadership has had the largest um indian country campaign in the bureau's history we've had the most agents in in town allows dedicated to that system dedicated that mission along with the longest durational campaign for mmip and so we need all the help we can get there

Sen. Grassley (IA)4:04:45 – 4:04:45

yeah

Kash Patel (Witness)4:04:47 – 4:04:48

Um, and the resources.

Sen. Welch (VT)4:04:48 – 4:04:56

If you could report back to us and give us any assistance on the bill that came out of the House, it's fairly straightforward, but um uh and then maybe that'll give us some momentum to

Kash Patel (Witness)4:04:53 – 4:04:54

We will.

Sen. Welch (VT)4:04:56 – 4:04:59

try and get this done before the end of this uh Congress.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:04:59 – 4:04:59

Sure thing.

Sen. Welch (VT)4:04:59 – 4:05:38

Um, that would be uh very helpful. Um, in my remaining time, because I don't wanna hold up my colleagues who have been here for a while, um, can you just briefly in in the minute or so that's left, uh, give me an idea of what your priorities are for stopping any practices that you think are not necessarily helpful. Starting uh in the FBI as you're you're going through and just trying to become lean or uh starting uh any new uh so stopping anything you think that you may be looking at say we don't need this we need to repurpose it. Are there some new initiatives that's gonna make the agency even stronger or better than it's uh than it's become under your leadership?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:05:39 – 4:07:01

There's a lot. We've implemented over a hundred and fifty policy changes we've reduced the operational guidebook for field agents by forty percent the core is just eliminate bureaucracy and duplicative efforts so multiple personnel aren't doing the same thing just to get to yes without uh providing a detriment to our operational workflow we've done things at the lab like eliminate the one point eight million dna backlog that was federally required years ago no one ever bothered to fix it so we brought in ai and tech to fix it and now we have the most expansive CODIS database the fbi has ever had to track down criminals and so we're just doing things like that with ai um on on on every front we're looking to eliminate bureaucracy on our task force officer pipeline it was a fourteen month wait just to become a tfo same problem as onboarding new hires we eliminated the internal bureaucracy in paperwork and we put the focus this is really the thesis at the end of the day the focus is in the field the focus is not in washington d. c. when i got to this seat one third of the fbi's entire thirty six thousand person thank you

Sen. Grassley (IA)4:07:02 – 4:07:06

senator schiff mr. patel

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:07:06 – 4:08:06

uh or at least two major investigations of President Trump in the previous Justice Department. One that investigated his role in the violent attack on the Capitol and the incitement of that attack. Another investigation that investigated his purloining of hundreds of classified documents, um, their storage in his place at Mar-a-Lago, efforts to obstruct the investigation. Those two investigations were properly predicated. Uh, those investigations resulted in grand juries bringing uh, returning indictments, charging the president numerous times with serious felony offenses. I have questions for you today about the agents who worked on those investigations. Uh, let me first start with a simple numeric question. How many agents, FBI agents were uh, used in the investigation of the Mar-a-Lago documents cases?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:08:08 – 4:08:09

I have no idea. I wasn't here then.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:08:09 – 4:08:12

Um, would it have been dozens?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:08:12 – 4:08:15

I don't know. You'd have to ask the prior administration.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:08:15 – 4:08:19

Well, a lot of those people were fired under your directorship, were they not?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:08:20 – 4:08:26

I don't think a lot of them, but a lot of them retired, and some of the ones that weaponized law enforcement were terminated, as they always will be.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:08:26 – 4:08:42

So, uh, can you pull the microphone closer? We're having trouble hearing you. Might wanna pull the whole thing closer to you. Um, so Are you testifying today that you don't know if they were fired or maybe some of them were fired or many were fired? What's your testimony? How many of them were fired?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:08:41 – 4:08:47

My testimony is, I don't know the personnel actions that were taken by the prior administration and the personnel actions.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:08:46 – 4:08:48

You know what? I'm talking about your administration.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:08:48 – 4:08:57

I'm getting there. And the personnel actions that were taken by me are simply as follows. Nobody at the FBI is they've committed to is a parallel to participate in the weaponization of law enforcement.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:08:56 – 4:08:58

OK, that's that that's not my question.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:08:57 – 4:08:58

If they did, they were terminated.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:08:59 – 4:09:06

How many of the agents who worked on the Mar-a-Lago investigation of Donald Trump How many of them were fired by the FBI?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:09:04 – 4:09:07

I don't have that number. I don't know.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:09:07 – 4:09:08

Are any of them still working for the FBI?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:09:09 – 4:09:10

I don't have that number. That's not my responsibility.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:09:10 – 4:09:18

Well, that's not, I'm not asking for number now, are any of the agents who worked on the Mar-a-Lago investigation of the president, still employed at the FBI?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:09:19 – 4:09:20

I don't believe so. Most of them left.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:09:21 – 4:09:27

OK, so you don't believe any of the agents who worked on that investigation are still at the FBI?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:09:28 – 4:09:29

I can't stop them from retiring.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:09:30 – 4:09:32

Is it your testimony that they're not at the FBI?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:09:35 – 4:09:39

My understanding is the overwhelming majority of those agents and FBI personnel retired.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:09:41 – 4:10:06

Well, let me ask you this. Um, Todd Blanch at a CPAC conference says, " And when it comes to the FBI, Director Patel has cleaned house there too." "There isn't a single man or woman with a gun, federal agent, still in that organization, that had anything to do with the prosecution of President Trump." So, the Attorney General says you cleaned house at the FBI.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:10:06 – 4:10:06

I did.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:10:08 – 4:10:15

Was he right? Was he truthful when he said there's not a single agent at the FBI who worked on the Mar-a-Lago investigation, still employed by the FBI?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:10:15 – 4:10:17

Attorney General is always truthful, so I believe his statement.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:10:17 – 4:10:26

OK, so they've all, they're all gone. Is your testimony today that most of those agents are no longer with the FBI because they decided suddenly to retire?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:10:20 – 4:10:26

Yeah. Yeah.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:10:27 – 4:10:31

They weren't fired in whole or in part because they worked on that investigation?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:10:31 – 4:10:35

The bulk of the individuals that worked on those investigations left shortly thereafter.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:10:36 – 4:10:37

And they left voluntarily.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:10:38 – 4:10:39

In the prior administration.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:10:40 – 4:10:43

I'm talking about under your watch, Director Patel.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:10:43 – 4:10:45

They left before I got there. There's really nothing I can do.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:10:46 – 4:10:50

So, it's your testimony that most of them voluntarily left the bureau. They weren't fired.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:10:50 – 4:10:51

Most of them, yeah.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:10:52 – 4:11:02

And is the same true of the agents who investigated the president's involvement in January sixth? How many, well, first of all, how many agents would you say that would be? Would it be dozens or hundreds of agents?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:11:03 – 4:11:06

I don't know. You'd have to ask the prior administration. They were in charge of them.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:11:07 – 4:11:09

You have no idea whether it is over a hundred agents?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:11:10 – 4:11:17

No, my focus is not going back in time. My focus is crushing violent crime and defending the homeland and receive the work results of the American people.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:11:15 – 4:11:29

Well, my my question is were those agents, as Todd Blanch indicated, also purged from the FBI under your watch because they had worked on the January sixth investigation?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:11:30 – 4:11:35

The FBI has one specific and simple standard. If you don't meet our high standards and you memorize lawful,

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:11:34 – 4:11:35

That that's not my question.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:11:35 – 4:11:41

I'm getting there. If you don't meet those standards, you don't get to work at the FBI.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:11:40 – 4:11:47

Oh, take a little less time to get there if you would. Were they purged because they worked on the January sixth investigation of the president?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:11:47 – 4:11:52

There was no purging and there are individuals who worked on a whole host of investigation in their careers.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:11:51 – 4:11:54

Were any of those agents, were any of those agents fired?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:11:55 – 4:11:57

Many retired, some were terminated.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:11:56 – 4:11:58

In, excuse me, excuse me, let me finish the,

Kash Patel (Witness)4:11:57 – 4:11:59

Many were, many

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:11:58 – 4:12:13

let me finish the question. were any of the agents who worked on the Mar-a-Lago investigation, or the January sixth investigation, were any of those agents fired in whole or in part because they worked on those investigations.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:12:13 – 4:12:18

For the simple fact of working on those investigations? No. If they weaponized law enforcement, yes.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:12:19 – 4:12:35

So, all of the agents who just happened to work on those investigations and were fired, is your testimony That's because they were engaged in some other malfeasance, other than simply being assigned to those two cases?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:12:35 – 4:12:43

There's an entire inspection division at the FBI that looked at the totality of not just these agents and employees but everybody on a constant basis, and they make recommendations to leadership.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:12:42 – 4:12:45

But my question is very specific, Mr. Patel.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:12:44 – 4:12:45

Answering your question.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:12:45 – 4:12:48

Are you, well, I haven't heard the answer, so I'm gonna try again.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:12:48 – 4:12:49

Go ahead.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:12:50 – 4:13:12

Of all the probably hundreds of agents who worked on those two investigations of the president, those hundreds of agents, maybe thousands, that your Attorney General says are gone from the FBI, is it your testimony that none of them were fired solely for working on those investigations?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:13:12 – 4:13:18

All FBI personnel, those matters or others, are held to the same standard. You don't meet it, you don't get to work at the FBI.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:13:19 – 4:13:25

So it's your testimony that none of were, none of them were fired, in whole or in part because they worked on those investigations.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:13:25 – 4:13:26

I've answered the question.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:13:27 – 4:13:28

Is that answer, answer a yes?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:13:29 – 4:13:30

I've answered the question.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:13:30 – 4:13:31

Well, I don't think you have.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:13:32 – 4:13:32

OK.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:13:32 – 4:14:08

But I can understand why you wouldn't want to. Uh, the FBI is being sued for wrongful termination. I will remind you, Director, because you probably need reminding, that while this Congress is not going to investigate the wrongful termination of potentially hundreds of agents, for working on properly predicated investigations, the next Congress will. And you have an obligation as FBI Director to insure that none of the personnel files, none of the emails, none of the voice mails, none of the text messages are destroyed. You will preserve those records, will you not?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:14:09 – 4:14:12

We preserve all records. We're not the ones that deleted records.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:14:11 – 4:14:13

Good. We will, we will hold, we will hold you to that.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:14:13 – 4:14:15

The ones that deleted records are the prior administration.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:14:13 – 4:14:35

We will hold you to that. Let me ask you another question. I wanna read you a statement that you made about the press. This was uh in two thousand twenty four, when you said that the mainstream media was quote " the most powerful enemy" that the United States has ever seen. You stand by that?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:14:35 – 4:14:40

Your colleagues put that on full display here today by by ha- I'm answering the question.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:14:38 – 4:14:39

Do you do you stand by that?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:14:41 – 4:14:45

Your colleagues put that on full display by hacking around the same lies and personal

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:14:45 – 4:14:47

No no no no no, this is this is this is your comment.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:14:45 – 4:14:51

pieces of tactics and that's what makes the majority of the mainstream media

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:14:48 – 4:14:53

Excuse me, Mister Chairman, I don't wanna have to go over my time as other colleagues have.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:14:53 – 4:14:54

I've answered the question.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:14:53 – 4:14:55

So if if you could answer question,

Kash Patel (Witness)4:14:55 – 4:14:56

You know,

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:14:55 – 4:14:56

do you stand by this statement?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:14:56 – 4:14:58

that's a great picture. You should post it.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:14:59 – 4:15:00

Do you stand by your statement?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:15:00 – 4:15:00

I always do.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:15:02 – 4:15:09

Um, so is it your view then that the media is a greater enemy than Iran?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:15:10 – 4:15:23

That's not what I said. I said the media that participates in lying like you do in the baseless attacks on me and my personnel and my loved ones is the most harmful institution to the United States of America, because you don't wanna tell the

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:15:22 – 4:15:28

And and by this, by by this uh mainstream media that you're accusing of lying you talk about the new york times are they part of the enemy

Kash Patel (Witness)4:15:28 – 4:15:30

i mean i'm talking about the ones that you said are still looking for

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:15:29 – 4:15:32

are you talking about the are you talking about the new york times

Kash Patel (Witness)4:15:31 – 4:15:34

aren't aren't you and them the ones still looking for russia collusion

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:15:33 – 4:15:36

are you talking about excuse me excuse me mr. chairman

Kash Patel (Witness)4:15:34 – 4:15:38

did you find russia collusion is it in that envelope that you held up you got that

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:15:37 – 4:15:39

we need an extra minute and maybe continuing as long as he the uh phil buster's or

Kash Patel (Witness)4:15:41 – 4:15:45

or what about those illegal FISA warrants when we and i were on the house select committee together

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:15:43 – 4:15:54

you you can you can you can i'll stipulate for the record all the insults he wants to make later but i don't i don't wanna have to go over my time but i will have to Um, so so Mister B- Mister Patel.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:15:51 – 4:15:54

I'm allowed to answer the questions, so if he doesn't want me to answer it, we can just answer.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:15:54 – 4:15:55

Mister Patel.

Sen. Grassley (IA)4:15:55 – 4:15:56

OK.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:15:57 – 4:16:11

Let me ask you specifically about some of your attacks on the media. Mister Booker tried to get an answer from you, a very simple answer, about the reporter who wrote an article about potential misuse of an FBI SWAT team by yourself.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:16:10 – 4:16:12

Didn't happen, total lie.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:16:13 – 4:16:17

And what he asked you, so let me repeat it because you didn't answer his question.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:16:17 – 4:16:19

You're gonna repeat a lie, so I'm not gonna answer it.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:16:17 – 4:16:22

What he asked you, what, excuse, Mister Chairman, uh we're gonna have to extend time the more he does this.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:16:23 – 4:16:24

We don't have to extend anything.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:16:23 – 4:16:25

And still, I'm trying to ask my question, Mister Chairman.

Sen. Grassley (IA)4:16:25 – 4:16:28

Could I uh ask uh both of you?

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:16:26 – 4:16:26

Mike.

Sen. Grassley (IA)4:16:28 – 4:16:31

He asked his question then like I said.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:16:28 – 4:16:29

Mike.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:16:31 – 4:16:33

Mister Chairman, I've made my decorum through this entire hearing.

Sen. Grassley (IA)4:16:31 – 4:16:34

You c- you c- you can have uh You can

Kash Patel (Witness)4:16:34 – 4:16:36

His colleagues have called me a thug,

Sen. Grassley (IA)4:16:36 – 4:16:37

You can ask

Kash Patel (Witness)4:16:36 – 4:16:37

a liar,

Sen. Grassley (IA)4:16:37 – 4:16:38

You can ask

Kash Patel (Witness)4:16:37 – 4:16:49

baselessly attack my loved ones, continuing to jeopardize the safety of me and mine. All the while to advance their political narrative, he's doing the same. I would appreciate it if you concluded this hearing, cuz this guy has no interest in oversight.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:16:49 – 4:16:56

Mr. that's been about two minutes of filibuster. So reclaiming my time. Um, yes sir.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:17:03 – 4:17:04

K, it's time's up.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:17:05 – 4:17:17

So my question, Mister Chairman, is following this New York Times article that alleged that you had abused the FBI SWAT team.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:17:17 – 4:17:19

i just told you it's a lie

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:17:19 – 4:17:22

excuse me mr. chairman i i have been able to finish my question

Kash Patel (Witness)4:17:19 – 4:17:21

so the basis of your question is a lie

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:17:23 – 4:17:36

um did you or did you not or did anyone else at the fbi query a federal database regarding the new york times reporter who wrote that story

Kash Patel (Witness)4:17:36 – 4:17:38

i did not not to my knowledge

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:17:38 – 4:17:39

did anyone to the fbi

Kash Patel (Witness)4:17:40 – 4:17:42

i've no idea i don't monitor everything they do

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:17:40 – 4:17:53

ok um and let me also ask you A similar question about an article. The FBI director is missing an action. This was an article in the Atlantic.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:17:53 – 4:17:54

Another total lie,

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:17:54 – 4:17:54

Which,

Kash Patel (Witness)4:17:54 – 4:17:57

which is why I'm suing them for three hundred and fifty billion dollars.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:17:55 – 4:17:57

Mister Chairman, I'm still trying to ask a question.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:17:57 – 4:17:58

He's out of time. Are we done?

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:17:58 – 4:17:59

Um, Mister Chairman.

Sen. Grassley (IA)4:17:58 – 4:18:03

OK, uh, hey, what I'd like to have you do is you ask your questions

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:18:03 – 4:18:04

I'm trying.

Sen. Grassley (IA)4:18:04 – 4:18:07

and stop, and I want him to respond to you.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:18:06 – 4:18:08

That that is what I'm doing, Mister Chairman.

Sen. Grassley (IA)4:18:08 – 4:18:09

OK, is is

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:18:09 – 4:18:27

So my my question is this, and I'll I'll address this through you to the director. My question is about the reporter, Sarah Fitzpatrick, who wrote this article, the FBI director is missing in action. After this article came out, were any FBI resources used

Kash Patel (Witness)4:18:28 – 4:18:28

OK.

Sen. Schiff (CA)4:18:28 – 4:18:31

to look into this reporter in any way?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:18:31 – 4:18:31

No.

Sen. Grassley (IA)4:18:32 – 4:18:41

OK, the question's answered. Now he's done. You take your time if you want it, right now, before I go to the senator from Florida.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:18:42 – 4:20:34

so just a comment on the fbi director being missing in action and let's see if the mainstream media reports this my predecessors took an average of thirty three days off a year i've taken half that i've taken four days off this year my predecessors like me and every other agency had national security are mandated to fly on government aircraft they took nearly twice as many personal trips as i ever have my predecessors utilize reagan national as their own costing the american taxpayer three point five million dollars i changed that to codify using andrews air force base and government airfields so the american taxpayer isn't on the hook uh for their excursions my travel is the least of any fbi director in history when it comes to personal travel my engagements and business days working are the highest of any fbi director we've got the calendars we'll show them to you But the re- the fact remains that I am the most present, hardest working FBI director, and this, this sheet shows it. When you reduce the murder rate twenty points in this country, that is making America safer than it's ever been before. When twenty percent less kids are dying from drug overdoses because you seize enough fentanyl to kill a quarter million Americans that is making America safer than it's ever been before. When you arrest and capture the top ten most wanted fugitives in eighteen months, all of them that is making america more safer than before when you capture six of the most wanted fraudsters in the world who fleeced americans of two billion dollars on four separate continents that's making america the most safe it's ever been when you find eleven thousand child victims and locate them that's making america the most safe it's ever been and when you arrest fifty four thousand violent felons the fbi alone a ninety percent increase in just eighteen months that's making america safe more safe than it's ever been before including in seven hundred from florida

Sen. Moody (FL)4:20:36 – 4:21:23

Thank you, Mister Chairman, and thank you, Director, for being here today. I think I'm one of the newest members of the United States Senate and I'm continuously amazed uh when I see performance theater on the other side of the aisle. And it generally happens when there's not enough material to attack performance metrics. I think you listed out the way you have been attacked today, your character, They've called you a thug, a liar, attack people that you love. It's hard to um spend their time talking about the fact from twenty twenty four to twenty twenty five, the violent crime rate fell almost ten percent, which is the largest single year decline in our nation's history.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:21:24 – 4:21:24

That's right.

Sen. Moody (FL)4:21:24 – 4:22:55

The largest decline in one single year in our nation's history. So, not a lot to run on. when I think probably the entire other side of the aisle is calculating how to do that. So they've got to come up with personal attacks against you. So I appreciate you staying focused on addressing what you have accomplished over the last year and a half to make America more safe. And I I wanna commend the Trump administration for staying focused on those deliverables, because that's what the American people are demanding after an administration who seemed to just throw up their hand, and then sometimes purposefully dismantle the security of the people in the United States. So, thank you for staying focused on what you've accomplished. And when you just rattled off those numbers, I mean, I when you were talking about pushing agents back out into the field, and this is something you and I talked about, um, when you started started at the helm about pushing agents back in the field, doing what we hire them to do. Do you credit that decision with not just the stat of the largest single year decline in our nation's history of violent crime falling, but do you also credit that decision to an eighty percent increase in criminal arrests and a ninety percent increase in violent crime arrests?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:22:56 – 4:23:35

This isn't rocket science. If you got a third of your workforce in Washington, D. C., how are they gonna be taking down criminals across the country? that's why we put him in the field that's why our field leadership's in charge that's why we're gonna continue putting him in the field and that's why we're going to put intelligence in the field and not have headquarters component uh twist intelligence for false political narratives and anyone at the fbi that does that or weaponizes in any way shape or form will not work at this fbi this fbi has returned historic results the mission remains the same the mission comes first of crushing violent crime and defending the homeland these baseless personal attacks they can say whatever they want about me but as you've highlighted That's something that happens when you are fully over the target, and they got absolutely nothing else to talk to you about.

Sen. Moody (FL)4:23:35 – 4:25:22

Well, it's my guess that a lot of the attacks against you had little to do about you and a lot to do with clips they'd like to see on TV later on tonight. Um, earlier this year, and I really thought this was, um, very smart and ingenuitive, and I wanna commend you. Some of the decisions you've made to increase these arrest stats to make sure that we're going after violent crime, strengthening our communities, these have been decisions that are a little out of the box. And I wanna commend you on that because this year you launched FBI's first ever most wanted fraudsters list to help locate and apprehend fugitives wanted for stealing from American taxpayers. And I do think Americans are tired of putting on their TV at night or opening up their newspaper and realizing oh just another hundred million dollars has just been siphoned off to criminals or improper payment. or another billion out the door that they just work two shifts or maybe overtime to earn and then pay taxes on. Um, I wanna commend you for, for thinking outside the box. I do believe there's an entire fraud economy out there that is being uncovered by patriots that work for you, uh, patriots that are independent like Nick Shirley that are just showing up at these places and demanding cuz he's a taxpayer and a citizen and he wants to know where our money's going. So I think it's important for the American people to understand the sheer scale and sophistication of fraud schemes that you're confronting. I loved this idea. It sets it up almost equal to the ten most wanted on the FBI's uh list. Can you profile for the American people that are watching this right now, the one to understand how big this fraud economy is out there, what kind of people are taking advantage of them.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:25:23 – 4:25:24

So it's an

Sen. Moody (FL)4:25:23 – 4:25:26

Tell us some of the guys that you've that were on that list,

Kash Patel (Witness)4:25:28 – 4:26:58

Um, so it's basically the worst of the worst. The entire enterprise is probably two hundred forty billion in fraud and that's probably low. Um, there's two types of fraud. There's the healthcare, Medicaid, Medicare, SNAP, PPP fraud that the g- president's task force is crushing. We were just in Kansas City yesterday where we announced the capture of our sixth most wanted fraudster in Vietnam. And what we're doing is we're finding individuals who make literally hundreds of millions if not billions of dollars and then flee to africa and southeast asia um and other far away locations, thinking they'll never be apprehended. The six that we've caught on the most wanted fraudsters list have been on the run for five thousand days collectively and we brought them all back, uh to be prosecuted and we're looking to seize all those funds. The second type of fraud is the scam center fraud senator and they are looking to basically call email text you um and your constituents across this country and take you for everything you've got your retirement your life savings, college education what have you and what we've done is at the fbi has launched operation blackout which is the only law enforcement led initiative in the entire government that focus on scam centers in the cross-border region of of southeast asia and burma thailand we stood up a symposium there we went and rated four compounds there we rated another in the middle east we see seventeen billion dollars in illicit gotten gains out of these scam center fraud schemes we freed thousands of traffic workers and made hundreds of arrests and most importantly These places where people don't realize they're actual cities. We went in there with our partners and bulldozed them to end the fraud.

Sen. Moody (FL)4:26:58 – 4:27:08

So one of the things that I saw as Attorney General in Florida, and and certainly as a prosecutor, is our seniors are often taken advantage of frequently by these scam artists.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:27:06 – 4:27:06

Yeah.

Sen. Moody (FL)4:27:08 – 4:28:10

And one of the challenges in law enforcement is you will have federal law enforcement and then in the state system, they will try and work on these as well. They might get to a point where they realize the bad actors are overseas. They need the help from the federal government. And that was always a challenge. But building expertise on the state level, having that complimentary force from the federal government was effective, I found when I set up a senior protection team or even a statewide cyber fraud task force. So one of the things I've proposed as a senator is to set up a similar, um, organization, and I proposed stop scams against seniors act, which would allow federal, local, state, law enforcement to come together, it would bolster these teams so that when the state reached its limit, couldn't get to someone like you were just talking about, you would come in, they could work together and educate one another how best to go after those. Is that a good idea? Is that essential right now? Because are we seeing cyber scams at a magnitude that we have never seen?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:28:10 – 4:28:11

Do it and do it yesterday.

Sen. Moody (FL)4:28:12 – 4:28:44

Thank you. I've proposed it. So anybody that you talk to, I think it would be go just from my own experience and the success that we saw in Florida, I think it would really go a long way to helping other states, and certainly we're still combating this uh in Florida, so thank you for committing your support, and I will uh make sure my colleagues know about that. Uh I also wanna turn to fentanyl. Um thank you for making this your number one of your number one priorities. Uh people didn't realize this, but the number one killer of Americans, working age Americans is fentanyl.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:28:44 – 4:28:44

Mm-hmm.

Sen. Moody (FL)4:28:44 – 4:28:59

And synthetic fentanyl I commend the administration for shutting the border. So much of that was flowing over our wide open southern border. Um, but we're still seeing this synthetic fentanyl being pressed into pills.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:28:59 – 4:28:59

Hmm.

Sen. Moody (FL)4:29:00 – 4:29:49

Many times our children, I can tell you as a mother, I talk to families all the time who have lost children that have taken pills, thinking it's uh it's um some other type of substance, but it's actually deadly lethal fentanyl. Um, thank you for your attention on this. I wanna commend you for seeing drastic decreases in our overdoses. In Florida, we just saw a forty-six percent drop in fentanyl related deaths, but I, I know in twenty twenty five, uh nationwide, seizures of fentanyl increased by more than thirty percent, and fentanyl overdose deaths fell by twenty percent. And I know that's due to the, in large part to the hard work of our men and women that wear a badge. I have also put forward uh the Press Act, which would make those pill presses illegal.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:29:49 – 4:29:50

Hundred percent.

Sen. Moody (FL)4:29:50 – 4:29:50

OK.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:29:50 – 4:29:51

Gotta do it.

Sen. Moody (FL)4:29:51 – 4:29:54

So, I have your commitment, you'll help me get that passed and that's important.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:29:53 – 4:29:54

Absolute, yup.

Sen. Moody (FL)4:29:55 – 4:29:59

OK. Well, I think it's important that we shined a light on some of the

Kash Patel (Witness)4:29:59 – 4:29:59

No.

Sen. Moody (FL)4:29:59 – 4:30:09

um wins that have been delivered for the safety of Americans over the last year and a half um thank you for being here today thank you for testifying to that,

Sen. Grassley (IA)4:30:05 – 4:30:08

All the best. Sure.

Sen. Moody (FL)4:30:09 – 4:30:16

and thank you for committing to help us shore up our laws to make sure we can go further and um deliver safety for the American people.

Sen. Grassley (IA)4:30:14 – 4:30:15

We need to make sure.

Sen. Moody (FL)4:30:16 – 4:30:16

Thank you.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:30:16 – 4:30:18

Thank you, Senator. Hope you get those bills passed.

Sen. Grassley (IA)4:30:17 – 4:32:45

I agree. Um before I call on Senator Hawley, I I think you're next, I wanna put a statement in reaction to some of the things we've heard. My colleagues have said that the the cases against Trump were properly predicated and by the book. my oversight has shown that cases were defective and were not normal prosecutions uh invest and investigations and uh were politically driven and we're going to get a follow-up on this uh uh soon with the uh jack Smith hearing that's coming up and then one other thing uh committee democrats claim the firing of certain department of justice and fbi officials is retribution but democrats willingly turned a blind eye to biden administration's weaponization against whistleblowers these whistleblowers suffered retaliation at the hands of many of these fired officials one whistleblower said quote ensuring that they no longer work at the fbi isn't retribution its responsible leadership end of quote another whistleblower who happened to be a registered democrat spoke out against abuses in the security clearance process committed by fbi senior leaders under biden during the biden administration that whistleblowers had their security terrances suspended and was placed on unpaid leave in retaliation uh we've gotten justice for some of those people hopefully all of them uh i've been providing details to the committee in the past but many other fired uh personnel who ruined their lives of many of whistleblowers uh i i'm going to uh leave the committee to the two republicans that are remaining here and i'm gonna take off but i wanna thank you not only for preparing for this, but putting up with what you had to put up with. And I'm sorry I couldn't control some of them more than I already did. But I explained that.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:32:45 – 4:32:46

I appreciate you, Mr. Chairman.

Sen. Grassley (IA)4:32:46 – 4:32:50

Thank you, Senator Paulie.

Sen. Hawley (MO)4:32:50 – 4:32:53

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Director Patel, good to see you.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:32:53 – 4:32:54

You too, sir.

Sen. Hawley (MO)4:32:54 – 4:33:35

I wanna say congratulations on the tremendous work on crime, confronting violent crime and crime of all sorts across the country, and particularly Missouri. prosecutions in Missouri are at all-time highs. I know they are in the Western District of the state, probably so in the Eastern District as well. And when I look at the the overall numbers, uh, you know, it's just really, it's really something. Criminal arrests up eighty percent, violent crime arrests up ninety percent, eleven thousand child victims have been located, identified, and their uh their perpetrators or their persecutors locked up. I mean, that's that's really tremendous. So, uh, congratulations on all of that. And I hope that you'll pass that along to uh the great men and women of the bureau who work under your command

Sen. Grassley (IA)4:33:33 – 4:33:33

Hello.

Sen. Hawley (MO)4:33:35 – 4:33:49

and under your leadership. Um, I wanna ask you about a crime of a different kind, but one that's very important in my state. My state has laws that prohibit the use of chemical abortion drugs in the state.

Sen. Grassley (IA)4:33:49 – 4:33:49

Mm.

Sen. Hawley (MO)4:33:49 – 4:35:06

Despite that fact, there are companies, huge companies, many of them based overseas or offshore, that are actively coaching customers and would-be consumers on how to use the federal mail and other federal instrumentalities to avoid state law. And in particular, the Danco company, which is a, all they do is make chemical abortion drugs. It's all they do. They're in the Cayman Islands, so their books are are off-site, they are not available to federal investigators. Uh, they're funded. We don't even know who their funders are. We know that it includes George Soros and a bunch of other far-left liberals, including folks who have been advocates of population control. This company, which is responsible for most of the abortion drugs made in the United States, is actively coaching people on how to use the federal males to evade state law. Now that's a cr- that's a federal crime. You cannot use federal instrumentalities to evade and violate state laws. Here's my question to you. Will the Bureau look into these actors, Danco in particular, but any other offshore or foreign corporation that is trying to use federal instrumentalities, whether it's the mails or other means of communication and commerce, in order to evade or to violate state and federal law.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:35:07 – 4:35:22

Without naming any of the companies, I'm not saying we're not already, but any use of the mail system is a federal crime that falls to the FBI to investigate, especially in conjunction with the violation of a state law that's already on the books. So, we're committed to that.

Sen. Hawley (MO)4:35:22 – 4:37:52

Good. Thank you very much. Uh, that is welcome news for the state of Missouri and should be welcome news all over the country. Because the truth is, and I'm sure you know this, when it comes to these particular abortion drugs, and the companies certainly know it, they send one in ten women who use them to the hospital with life-threatening conditions. The companies lie about that. They don't disclose it. They don't follow state law. They don't follow federal law. And now to see them coaching people on how to use the federal mail to violate the law, so that what? So that they can make billions of dollars and by the way, keep it all off books in the Caymans, it's absolutely outrageous. Here's the other thing I want to ask you about. In conjunction with that, sadly, because these companies are violating the law the way they are, we see many abusers ordering these abortion drugs themselves, posing as women, but ordering them themselves and then lacing a woman's drink or her food with the drug in order to induce an abortion, to carry out a physical assault, uh, to carry out the most heinous invasion of her bodily autonomy, to use a phrase my Democrat colleagues love to use but don't seem to care about in this context, We see multiple fe- people doing this. And in fact, just last week, there was a tragic story out of Ohio where a doctor was sentenced to six months in jail, two years probation after he admitted to secretly giving his girlfriend, without her consent, an abortion-inducing drug. There have been twelve prosecutions in, I think, as many states in the last two years. My question to you is, will the FBI, where there is a federal nexus here again, where the males are used for this purpose illegally, where there's an other federal nexus, whether it's a, a violation, um, of the uh, Violence Against Women Act, the Travel Act, other federal anti-fraud statutes, will the FBI do all it can to make sure that abusers of this kind are being held accountable? Fantastic. Um, let me ask you about a different kind of crime that is something entirely new in in this age, and and that is crimes that are committed by AI agents. Um, I'm I'm sure you know this, last July, uh, we learned that uh, agents from OpenAI, twelve hundred of their AI agents escaped a testing environment and committed uh an assault, an attack, an on-line attack on a platform known as Hugging Face. We later learned that open AI agents were behind a May attack on a different service called RubyGems. And uh in a few weeks after that we learned that AI agents executed a fully autonomous ransomware attack. We're seeing this ramp up. This is, as far as I know, you correct me if I'm wrong, I mean, this is this is all new territory.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:38:11 – 4:39:21

This is a great question. It's literally the new frontier and uh nobody's really talking about it. So thank you. So, a couple things. The president has issued his AI on what the government can and can't use and that's the right first step because you don't want seventy seven different large language models and distillation to occur and then have these programs available to adversaries and criminal actors and so that was step one it was a great initiative the next step is we specifically the bureau use all these ai capabilities under test case models to make sure they are cooperating and falling under line and other federal statutes what we need to do on a resource basis is go after the people that created these models that are going rogue let's call it for the specific purpose and with the intention to commit a criminal act that's going to be sort of the immediate next frontier we can't be punishing people if they created something lawfully and then a criminal took it and changed it and then dispersed it we can punish that criminal but we need to have a whole of government approach but to look at all these large language models We need an in, you know, we need an intake of a lot of money.

Sen. Hawley (MO)4:39:22 – 4:39:43

So give me a sense of, of what we need to be doing, what Congress needs to be doing to help you get equipped to do your job. Do we need to create a new division? Do we need to give you more staff? I mean, what's the, I, I think where we're looking here, this is, as you said, a new frontier and we're looking at this could be the future, unfortunately, the future of, of much online crime in this country. What do we need to do to get you the resources that you need?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:39:43 – 4:40:23

I don't think we need a new division. I think we have the technical capabilities to do it at the FBI cyber division. um the best in the world what we need is the ability to buy tech we don't have the money to buy tech the fbi's budget is like half the size of tsa what we need is funding to specifically go out there thanks to the relationship that president trump has established i'm able to call all these company ceos right away and every single one of them has complied with our request and work with us on law enforcement matters but that sort of soft power what we need is federal statute um excuse me federal funding to go out there and buy the creations of these companies and use them for law enforcement purposes. That's what's missing and that's a big buy.

Sen. Hawley (MO)4:40:23 – 4:40:30

Do you, do you need additional statutory authority to conduct investigations? Do you have all the statutory authority that you need?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:40:30 – 4:40:32

I think we have all the statutory authority that we need.

Sen. Hawley (MO)4:40:32 – 4:41:19

You know, let me just ask you, just picking your brain on this, I mean, what happens when you have, as happened with the, the Hugging Face incidents, I understand it, that the autonomous AI agents committed these crimes uh, got broke into the Hugging Face platform, stole the data that they stole, but then they altered the evidentiary record. Now, you know, investigators, prosecutors, I'm a former prosecutor, you know, we're used to trying to uncover the evidentiary record, reassemble the evidentiary record. What we're not used to is having a criminal perpetrator that is able to rewrite the evidentiary record in real time, which these AI agents are, are fully capable of doing. What w- i- is there a, what, what do you need to be able to uh attack the problem, attack the situation when you have this kind of capability by these agents.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:41:19 – 4:41:44

What you need is for the industry to come in fully with government on these large language models. And the process that these folks are taking advantage of is distillation. Basically that's tech speak for we grab a large language model that's out there in the ether, and we mess with it, um outside of the parameters it was created for, unbeknownst to the company that created it. and then dump it into an ecosystem for criminal purposes.

Sen. Hawley (MO)4:41:43 – 4:41:43

Mm.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:41:44 – 4:42:11

And that's where the tech buys come in. We need these tech companies who created it to not, they're not just gonna give us this material for free, that's just the reality of it. We need to be able to go there and say, okay, I'm gonna contract with you and work on this specific model, and then work on its defenses. And when it goes rogue, because you discovered it went rogue, just like any other cyber intrusion, ransomware attack, or what have you, it's the same exact approach. We go out there with them, get on their ecosystems, and immediately shut that enterprise down.

Sen. Hawley (MO)4:42:11 – 4:42:24

Very good. Well, I'll just say this in conclusion, as it relates to these tech companies, I see that over the weekend, some of the tech CEOs were saying that they really feel that in order to confront these mounting dangers they need an exemption from this nation's antitrust laws.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:42:24 – 4:42:25

That's it.

Sen. Hawley (MO)4:42:24 – 4:42:47

And I, I, I'd just like to say from my point of view, and for the record, I wanna be real clear on this, uh, absolutely not. There is no world in which I will consent to giving the most powerful companies in the history of the world a small group of three or four of them, antitrust exemptions from our laws, so that they can what? collude together. I mean, absolutely no way that that is happening. Thank you for the work that you're doing, Director.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:42:47 – 4:42:47

Thank you, sir.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:42:49 – 4:44:48

And I actually wanna chime in. Senator Hawley and I don't always see eye to eye on AI. But I will say the last thirty seconds of what he said, I agree with every syllable of every word of what he just said. And to watch AI CEOs saying, we're about to destroy the world, so give us control of the government so we can lock in our monopoly status and prevent any innovators from challenging us is just lunacy. And by the way, if you're about to destroy the world, how about don't? How about stop? So, uh, it's good to see some common ground. Uh, all right. And I'm not gonna make you comment on that. Uh, welcome, uh, and, and I am the last and one, I'm sure, has been a, a joyful litany. Um. I wanna talk about a tale of two FBIs. One that targeted Republican senators and President Trump and became a political operation. And the other that targets terrorists and criminals. The American people have seen both. Let's consider where the FBI was under Democrats and Joe Biden. Director Patel, you did not inherit an FBI enjoying widespread public confidence and in fact gallop found in twenty twenty four the percentage of americans rating the fbi positively fell to just forty one percent now there's a reason for that which is the fbi was doing a terrible job and was refusing to perform the functions that it is assigned to perform According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, Americans suffered nearly twenty million violent victimizations between twenty twenty-two and twenty twenty-four. Is that correct?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:44:48 – 4:44:48

Yes, sir.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:44:49 – 4:44:57

And in twenty twenty-four, a violent crime occurred every twenty-five point nine seconds. Is that right?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:44:57 – 4:44:58

Yes, sir.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:44:58 – 4:45:03

And a murder every thirty-one point one minutes, correct?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:45:02 – 4:45:03

Yes, sir.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:45:04 – 4:45:15

Now, not only that. During the Biden administration, we had a wide open southern border. There were almost eleven million encounters at the southwest border. Is that correct?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:45:15 – 4:45:16

Yes, sir.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:45:16 – 4:45:24

Uh, approximately two million illegal aliens were known to have entered the country but were not apprehended what are called gotaways. Is that correct?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:45:24 – 4:45:24

Yes.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:45:25 – 4:45:32

Fentanyl was the leading cause of death for Americans between the ages of eighteen and forty-five. Is that right?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:45:32 – 4:45:32

Yep.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:45:33 – 4:45:40

Violent cartels like MS thirteen and the Sinaloa cartel expanded their operations inside of the United States. Is that right?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:45:41 – 4:45:41

Yes, sir.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:45:43 – 4:46:12

But instead of fighting cartels, instead of fighting drug dealers, instead of fighting human traffickers, instead of fighting murderers, instead of fighting child rapists, instead of fighting vicious predators. The Democrats' FBI had a different target in mind, and that was the political opposition, that was Republicans. FBI Director Chris Wray, along with DOJ leadership, all personally approved the opening of Operation Arctic Frost. Is that correct?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:46:12 – 4:46:13

Yes.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:46:15 – 4:46:32

Instead of focusing on violent criminals, Biden, DOJ, and FBI simply wanted to ensure Democrats stayed in power. Not only did they target their political opposition, the investigation expanded to involve nearly two

Kash Patel (Witness)4:46:38 – 4:46:39

Yes, sir.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:46:40 – 4:46:55

And on top of that, the FBI obtained without our knowledge the cell phone data of more than twenty percent of the Republicans in the Senate, including me, including the White House Chief of Staff, Susie Wiles, and including you, Director Patel. Is that right?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:46:56 – 4:46:56

Yes.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:46:58 – 4:47:09

In just four days in June of twenty twenty two, The Arctic Frost team spent s- roughly sixteen thousand dollars in taxpayer funded travel on Arctic Frost. Is that right?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:47:09 – 4:47:09

Yep.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:47:12 – 4:47:30

Now. In twenty twenty one, the gun owners of America discovered a secret FBI program called NICS monitoring, used to track firearms purchases of Americans who are legally eligible to buy a gun, but merely suspected of a crime. Is that right?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:47:31 – 4:47:31

Yes.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:47:32 – 4:47:44

So, while DOJ and FBI is focused on their political enemies, they were ignoring violent crime, and that violent crime, tragically, had a human cost.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:47:46 – 4:47:47

Yep.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:47:47 – 4:47:48

Real Americans.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:47:48 – 4:47:48

Mm-hmm.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:47:49 – 4:48:26

I've spoken their names before. Jocelyn Nungary in my hometown of Houston. Lakin Riley, Rachel Moran. They were daughters. They were students. They were mothers. Brutally murdered by criminal, illegal aliens who should not have been in the country. That's what a Democrat run FBI and DOJ looks like. All right, let's contrast it. Cuz we actually have nearly two years of stark contrast. Director Patel, the American people are safer today than they were twenty-one months ago. Isn't that correct?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:48:26 – 4:48:26

Hundred percent.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:48:28 – 4:48:36

Since President Trump took office, the FBI has arrested over thirty one thousand violent gang members, a thirty percent increase. Is that right?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:48:36 – 4:48:38

Yep, thirty one thousand gang bangers are gone.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:48:39 – 4:48:48

The FBI has disrupted or dismantled approximately two thousand seven hundred criminal gangs a three hundred and sixty-five percent increase. Is that right?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:48:48 – 4:48:48

Yes, sir.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:48:50 – 4:48:58

In twenty twenty five, the United States saw the greatest recorded year-to-year drop in violent crime and murder rates of all time. Is that right?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:48:58 – 4:48:58

Yes, it is.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:48:59 – 4:49:05

Homicides across America's largest cities fell by over eighteen percent. Is that right?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:49:06 – 4:49:06

Yes, sir.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:49:07 – 4:49:12

Robberies fell nineteen percent. Aggravated assaults fell over seven percent. Is that right?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:49:12 – 4:49:12

Yes, sir.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:49:14 – 4:49:23

And there have been fifty-four thousand violent crime arrests over the last eighteen months, a ninety percent increase. Is that correct?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:49:24 – 4:49:25

Yes, sir, by the FBI.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:49:26 – 4:49:39

All right, let's talk drugs. The FBI launched Operation Raptor in May of twenty twenty five to target drug traffickers using the dark web to sell fentanyl and other narcotics. Is that right?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:49:39 – 4:49:40

Yes, it is.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:49:41 – 4:49:46

Your agents have seized more than three thousand two hundred kilograms of fentanyl. Is that right?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:49:46 – 4:49:47

Yep.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:49:48 – 4:49:55

That dosage could kill two hundred and forty seven million. Americans.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:49:55 – 4:49:56

Not could, would.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:49:57 – 4:50:01

Your operation potentially saved millions of lives. Is that right?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:50:01 – 4:50:02

Yes, sir.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:50:03 – 4:50:19

The FBI also made protecting America's children one of its very highest priorities. Since the beginning of this administration, the FBI has located approximately eleven thousand and eighty-one child victims, a twenty-one percent increase. Is that right?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:50:19 – 4:50:19

Yes, it is.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:50:20 – 4:50:23

The FBI has arrested more than five

Kash Patel (Witness)4:50:28 – 4:50:28

Yes, sir.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:50:31 – 4:50:33

Those numbers can become abstract.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:50:34 – 4:50:34

Mm-hmm.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:50:34 – 4:50:47

But let's put faces to the FBI's success. Director Patel, some of the most dangerous fugitives in America had been running from justice for years, many during the Biden administration. Is that right?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:50:47 – 4:51:10

Yes, sir. Yes, sir. That's right. Yes, sir.

Sen. Hawley (MO)4:51:10 – 4:51:10

Mm.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:51:12 – 4:51:20

Gregory Henderson, Junior had been a federal fugitive for nearly three years. The FBI put him on the ten most wanted list on August eleventh, correct?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:51:20 – 4:51:20

Yes, sir.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:51:21 – 4:51:24

The next day FBI agents already had him in custody. Is that right?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:51:24 – 4:51:24

That's right.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:51:26 – 4:51:35

Director Patel, as of yesterday, your public record was nine captures from the FBI's ten most wanted list. But you stated today, now you have captured all ten.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:51:36 – 4:51:45

The tenth one was just captured in Venezuela pursuant to a large scale jackpotting fraud scheme and we rolled them up down there and they're on their way back here. Ten of ten.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:51:46 – 4:51:55

What the FBI under Biden could not do in years. Under your leadership, the FBI has been able to do it in days.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:51:56 – 4:51:57

Eighteen months.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:51:59 – 4:52:07

Director Patel, you also created a new watch list in response to the horrific accounts of fraud in states like Minnesota. The FBI's most wanted fraudsters. Is that right?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:52:07 – 4:52:08

Yes, sir.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:52:09 – 4:52:16

This poster reflects five captures. But overnight your team brought in a sixth. Is that right?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:52:16 – 4:52:24

Yes, sir, we caught a uh most wanted fraudster who'd been on the run since twenty twenty three in Vietnam for bilking Medicaid for over a hundred million dollars.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:52:25 – 4:52:30

Their fraud schemes collectively totaled over two billion dollars, correct?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:52:30 – 4:52:30

Yes.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:52:31 – 4:53:01

This is money stolen from taxpayers, from seniors, from children's programs, from pandemic relief meant to keep American businesses afloat. Let's take for example, Somali immigrant Saeed Abdulahi Areg. as part of the larger scourge of Somali scammers, he used a small Minneapolis grocery store as a front to steal more than four point two million dollars from taxpayers. Is that right?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:53:01 – 4:53:01

Yes, sir.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:53:03 – 4:53:07

He lied to the government that he was feeding hungry children during the COVID pandemic. Is that right?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:53:07 – 4:53:08

That's right.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:53:09 – 4:53:17

But instead of feeding children, Eregg wasted the taxpayer money on luxury goods from Louis Vuitton and Burberry and fled the country with arrest. Is that right?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:53:18 – 4:53:18

That's correct.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:53:20 – 4:53:29

Eregg was charged and at large during the Biden years. But after you put him on the most wanted list, the FBI arrested him in just six days, correct?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:53:29 – 4:53:29

That's right.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:53:31 – 4:54:15

That's the tale of two FBIs, one that lets a fraudster run free for years and one that runs him down and arrests him in six days. Director Patel, finally, the one other area I want to highlight is the FBI's fight against radical Islamic terror that you're leading. Earlier this year, I sent a letter to the Bureau raising concerns about the Council on American Islamic Relations, or CARE, and its ties to the Holy Land Foundation. The l- the largest terrorism financing case in American history. This is the letter I sent. Director Patel, are you familiar with that two thousand eight conviction in which the Holy Land Foundation and its leaders

Kash Patel (Witness)4:54:20 – 4:54:21

I am.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:54:22 – 4:54:28

And Kerr was named as an unindicted co-conspirator in that very case, correct?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:54:28 – 4:54:28

Yes.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:54:30 – 4:54:44

Director Patel, can you assure this committee that the FBI is taking a very hard look at organizations with documented ties to terror financing, especially radical Islamic terror financing?

Kash Patel (Witness)4:54:44 – 4:54:45

A hundred percent all day.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:54:46 – 4:55:50

And I believe the administration should designate care. They're simply an unindicted co-conspirator. They have been designated by my home state of Texas as a terrorist organization, and I am urging the administration to do the same. Focusing on threats and targeting them is the best way to keep America safe. I wanna say finally thank you for your service. Thank you for leading tens of thousands of principled men and women at the FBI and bringing them back to their core function. The FBI is not meant to be a political enforcement body. It's not meant to favor one partisan group over another. It was not meant to be the DNC's action team to target the political opposition. The FBI should be locking violent criminals up and protecting Americans under your leadership. That's what the FBI is doing. Thank you for that leadership. Your family and my family are safer because of it.

Kash Patel (Witness)4:55:50 – 4:55:51

Thank you, Senator.

Sen. Cruz (TX)4:55:53 – 4:56:02

Uh, with that, that concludes, um, this hearing. The hearing will remain open. The hearing record will remain open for one week. And with that, the hearing is adjourned.

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