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Senate · Hearing transcript

Hearings to examine certain pending nominations.

Wednesday, September 16, 2026

Summary

  • Six district court nominees testified seeking confirmation as home-state senators praised their public service, prosecutorial experience, and judicial temperament for lifetime federal judgeships.
  • Daniel Balou said state judging taught humility and open-mindedness, Richard Bennett stressed fair impartial judging, and Courtney Coker pledged fidelity to Constitution and rules.
  • Sen. Blumenthal pressed Balou and Bennett on the 2020 winner and January 6 attack, with Balou acknowledging Biden's certification and violence.
  • Sen. Durbin warned DOJ lost credibility and must face judicial checks, while Sen. Cruz, Sen. Moody and Sen. Cornyn praised nominees' fidelity to Constitution.
  • The committee will vote whether to advance the six nominees for full Senate confirmation to fill vacancies in Texas, Oklahoma, Kentucky, and Alaska.

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Hearing Details

Witnesses

Members Who Spoke

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Transcript

Sen. Grassley (IA)16:59 – 20:17

Good morning everybody. We welcome you to today's hearing. Our panel features six district court nominees. Daniel Balou, Eastern District, Kentucky Richard Bennett, Southern Southern District, Texas Courtney Coker, Northern District, Texas trevor pemerton northern district oklahoma kyle reardon district of alaska and zachary west for the district eastern district of oklahoma i'll keep my remarks brief since we have number of visitors who will introduce these nominees all of today's nominees are highly qualified to serve on the federal bench what strikes me about today's nominees in particular is the diverse qualifications that they've gained throughout their career in public service of course like many hearings this panel features nominees who clerked at district uh federal district and circuit court levels beyond that i'm proud that two nominees here today served in our military judge balou served in both the us navy and marine corps as an intelligence officer and judge reardon began his career as an army jag corps moreover all of today's nominees have served as attorneys uh in in civilian public service as well take for example mister bannard who served as a state and federal prosecutor as well as legal advisor and assistant chief counsel with federal agencies mr. coker and judge reardon also spent most of their careers as federal prosecutors, protecting victims and the public at large. Mister West worked for our college, uh colleague, Senator Cruz, in support of this committee, and he spent the remainder of his career in the State Attorney General's office including service as Solicitor General of Oklahoma. Mister Pemberton spent years as General Counsel in the Governor's office gaining critical insight into issues facing the people of the state. Notably two thirds of today's nominees already have judicial experience. Uh, for example, Judge Belot. He's been a state judge in Kentucky for nearly a quarter century, and I think it's fair to say he knows a thing or two about managing the courtroom. Mister Pemberton previously served as both trial and appellate judge in Oklahoma, and Judge Bennett and Judge Reardon. our currently federal magistrate judges in texas and alaska my point is this yes today's nominees have had remarkable legal careers they know the law they've done the work but today's nominees are also no strangers to public service they've all answered the call to serve uh our great country and i'm confident that they'll continue doing so as federal judges i look forward to listen to each of today's nominees senator derby

Sen. Durbin (IL)20:18 – 25:19

thanks a lot chairman grassley congratulations to the nominees families and friends uh by senate standards i will try to be brief uh three of the nominees on today's panel have been long time federal prosecutors assistant us attorneys or aus are critical part of the criminal justice system hold a lot of power including deciding who to charge and what charges to bring Historically, the Justice Department has been afforded a presumption of regularity, meaning, as Senator Whitehouse has reminded us, that courts presume that an AUSA's representations can be trusted, deference not accorded to many private litigants. But the Justice Department under this President and Attorney General has upended this presumption of regularity by weaponizing the Department of Justice to protect the President and his followers, and to target anyone who dares to cross him. As a result, federal judges across the country, even those appointed by presidents of Republican party, have found that the Justice Department has made misrepresentations to the court, an egregious act for any officer of the court, let alone a federal prosecutor. From January twenty twenty five to March twenty twenty six, judges in at least ninety, ninety cases, stated on the record that they did not uh trust the justice department's representations to the court. Ninety cases. Unfortunately, what Judge Mary McIlroy found, she reported publicly. Miss McIlroy, the judge, is a Trump appointee. A Trump appointee. She said about federal prosecutors withholding information and misrepresenting facts, involving a subpoena as they sought to investiga- investigate a hospital's care of transgender children. She said, and I quote, " As citizens, we trust that federal prosecutors, when wielding this awesome power against a state, a company, certainly against vulnerable children, will play fair and be honest with its counterparts and the judiciary." However, she continued, "The discrepancy between the honorable conduct expected of federal prosecutors and Department of Justice tactics in the case is unsettling." She concluded that the presumption of regularity, normally extended to the Justice Department, quote, " no longer holds", a Trump appointee. Nowhere in this administration's weaponization of the Justice Department is that more apparent than an approach to the electoral process. With the midterms elections fast approaching, the Trump administration is using vast resources of the Justice Department to politicize that agency and interfere with the election. Look no further than Attorney General Blanchett's speech last week at the Republican Midterm Convention in Texas, the first time a sitting Attorney General has spoken at a party convention in decades. Instead of avoiding partisan rallies or any actions that create the impression of interfering in the electoral process, The Attorney General did just the opposite. Meanwhile, the Justice Department sent threatening letters to at least thirty top election officials across the country, demanding access to sensitive voter data and election records. The letters claimed the chief election officials, quote, are currently under investigation and are subject to ongoing litigation. The Justice Department has sued thirty states seeking unredacted voter list. including personal information on voters, like driver's license numbers, and partial social security numbers. All in an attempt to prove there's a widespread voter fraud that has never been established. After not winning a single case, and losing twenty-three of them, President Trump and Attorney General Blanchard have turned their desperate desperate tactics to intimidating state election officials and voters, even at polling places. Weeks ago, DOJ election monitors showed up unannounced at polling locations in Wyoming, during primary elections, trying to interview voters and examine voting machines. As the governors of Wyoming, a conservative Republican said, it was aggressive, unexpected, disruptive, and certainly didn't seem to show respect for our state. At a time when DOJ has upended norms and traditions so drastically, that it has lost the presumption of regularity in many courtrooms, it is more important than ever that the federal judiciary hold this weaponized agency to account. I hope the nominees before us today can demonstrate they'll do that by putting the rule of law above partisan politics. Thank you, Mister Chair.

Sen. Grassley (IA)25:19 – 26:00

Thank you, Senator Durbin. We'll now turn to the introduction of nominees. Senator Cruz is a scheduling conflict with the Commerce Committee, so he asked me to enter into the record his introduction. remarks in support of several nominees. These include Mister West, who worked for Senator Cruz in support of this committee, as well as Texas nominees Judge Bennet and Mister Corker. Uh, without objection, these will be entered in the record. Uh, then we'll start with our visiting senators and then turn to Senator Cornyn. So I'm gonna call on this order Senator Murkowski, Senator Paul and Senator Langford. Senator Murkowski, please proceed.

Sen. Murkowski (AK)26:02 – 31:40

Good morning, Mister Chairman, a ranking member Durbin, members of the Judiciary Committee. Thanks for the opportunity to introduce Kyle Reardon to the committee today. Uh, you haven't seen me before the Judiciary Committee. In some time the District of Alaska has not been fully constituted as a court since twenty twenty-two so uh we are we are pleased to be able to to fill this remaining vacancy. Uh, before I speak to Mister Reardon's qualifications for this position. I I briefly wanna recognize some of his family members that are here in the audience to support him they've come all the way from Alaska and other parts of the country as well uh we know being in public service is really a family affair and this family is certainly supportive of Kyle uh Kyle's wife Christian I've known um through her good work for the Denali commission in Alaska uh they have two sons that are with them today Luke and Owen Um, both at West High School. We're all alums of Roemig Middle School. Um, so we've got that in in common, and I first met Owen when he and his mom were, uh, taking a walk through a shared neighborhood and they were picking up trash. So, I thought that that was a pretty good indicator of, of, uh, community responsibility. Kyle's parents are also with us. Uh, Kyle is now the second reardon to appear before a US Senate committee. His dad was the Auditor General for the US Army before becoming Principal Deputy Inspector General for the Department of Defense under uh former President George W. Bush. Um he's hoping that the questions Kyle gets today are gonna be a little bit easier than the ones that Senator Stevens put before him, but we will see. Kyle's uh Kyle describes his mom as the anchor of the family. Uh she was the neighborhood uh greeter and cookie maker, but also a strong civil servant for over twenty-five years. Kyle is also joined by his brother and sister-in-law, who came from Missouri to be with him today. Uh, and again, the support from from family members really says it all. Uh, Kyle brings the experience, the intellect, the integrity, and the judicial temperament that I believe is necessary to be an effective US District Court Judge. As has been noted by you, Mister Chairman, he spent his entire legal career in public service, first as a judge advocate for the US Army for six years. Then he was a federal prosecutor for fifteen years, including seven as an assistant US attorney in in Alaska. And he is now serving as a US magistrate judge for the district and has been in that position since twenty twenty one. In his current role, Mister Rudin has handled more than three thousand criminal and almost five hundred civil matters. He's also been selected to serve on various Ninth Circuit committees. Uh, you know, this is, this is an individual that is not only, uh, qualified, um, for this position. He is ready to hit the ground running as a US District Court Judge. And again, we certainly need this given the extended vacancies that the court has experienced. I I wanna briefly highlight some of Mister Rudin's work as an Assistant US Attorney, that coincides with some of the things that that I've been working on as we work to improve public health and safety in Alaska and I know are priorities of the committee as well. Mister Rudin was the lead attorney on more than a hundred and twenty cases, many of which were related to child sexual abuse material or sex trafficking. And this work included being the lead attorney in ten trials, and serving as Project Safe Childhood Coordinator, Senior Trial Counsel and Deputy Criminal Chief. Mister Burden also brings an understanding of the issues that face rural Alaska to the bench. Uh he has done outreach as part of the US Attorney's Office Rural Alaska Anti-Violence Enforcement Initiative this was uh an initiative that was created after Attorney General Barr's visit to the state back in twenty eighteen. Uh he has also been involved in in the effort to uh to address our drug issues in this state. Uh he was involved uh with a multi-drug, multi-defendant drug case that Mister Rudin prosecuted involving significant amounts of methamphetamine and heroin being brought into the Kenai peninsula. And after this conspiracy was brought down, there was a local law enforcement officer that shared that not only did the drug trade dry up in this area for for a period of time but robberies and violence decreased. Um, it is, it's important to note in, in uh messaging that has been shared, he speaks not only to the impact that he has, the positive impact he has had, uh as he, as he helps those who have been victims, but what it means to ensure that others do not become victims, whether victims of, of child sexual abuse or victims of, of drug violence. Uh, so his His generosity of spirit, I think, has shown through. To summarize, I want to thank uh, Kyle Reardon, his family for agreeing to serve as US District Court Judge. I appreciate the committee for scheduling his confirmation hearing so quickly, after President Trump nominated him. And I appreciate the President and the White House Office Council for working with us to advance Mister Reardon's nomination.

Sen. Grassley (IA)31:41 – 31:42

Thank you, Senator Markowski.

Sen. Murkowski (AK)31:41 – 31:42

Thank you, Mister Chairman.

Sen. Grassley (IA)31:42 – 31:44

Now, Senator Paul.

Sen. Paul (KY)32:07 – 33:21

Thank you, Mister Chairman and Senator Ervin, for this opportunity. I'm proud to introduce my friend, uh Judge Dan Bellew, who is now nominated to serve as District Judge for the Eastern District of Kentucky. Judge Valeux has demonstrated commitment to public service and a fair-minded approach to the law. He'll be a credit to the federal judiciary and I urge his confirmation. Judge Valeux first took the oath to protect and defend our country, and our constitution, when he was eighteen years old. He joined the US Marine Corps and left for Paris Island three days after graduating from high school in nineteen eighty four. He served seven years on active duty and was honorably discharged as a sergeant. During his enlisted time, he served on the East Coast, the West Coast, and deployed overseas four times. His last deployment was to Operation Desert Shield and Desert Storm. Judge Veloux left active service in nineteen ninety-one to pursue an education. He received an undergraduate degree from the University of Kentucky, and a law degree from the University of Mississippi. He then clerked for another Williamsburg native, Judge Eugene Seiler, on the US uh Court of Appeals for the sixth circuit. he returned to uniform in nineteen ninety nine as a reservist where he served as an intelligence officer he served with various reserve units and deployed to afghanistan and iraq

Sen. Grassley (IA)33:21 – 33:22

so wonderful

Sen. Paul (KY)33:21 – 34:23

before retiring from the marine corps as a major in twenty fifteen somewhere along the way judge blew found time to work in private practice start a family and get elected to the bench judge blew has served a total of twenty four years on the bench in kentucky he serves as a district he served first as a district judge in kentucky for five years from two thousand and three to two thousand seven uh since then he has served as a circuit court judge for the last nineteen years and currently serves as the chief circuit court judge for kentucky's thirty fourth judicial district whether on the battlefield or in the courtroom judge blew his demonstrated a commitment to public service and our constitution he has built a reputation as a fair-minded judge who balances respect for the parties with fidelity to the law I look forward to his continued service to the Commonwealth of Kentucky and to the country. I'm happy to offer my strongest endorsement for Judge Valou's confirmation to the US District Court for the Eastern Kentucky Eastern District of Kentucky. Thank you.

Sen. Grassley (IA)34:24 – 34:26

Thank you, Senator Paul. Now, Senator Langford.

Sen. Lankford (OK)34:27 – 35:59

Chairman Grassley, ranking member uh German, thank you. Uh, thanks for the opportunity to be able to introduce two great Oklahoma candidates that uh we have nominated to serve on the federal bench in Oklahoma. Uh, it's my pleasure to be able to introduce Trevor Pemberton, uh, who has been nominated to serve in the Northern District of Oklahoma. Zach West, who has been nominated to serve in the Eastern District. I also wanna say my gratitude to the committee for the swift action to be able to work through this process. Uh, we have a desperate need for additional district judges uh in Oklahoma based on the McGirt decision, and the heavy caseload that's in those areas. And so I really appreciate the swift action to be able to work through and do the background here. Trevor Pemberton is currently in private practice. He has an impressive career under his belt. He's served as general counsel to Governor Stitt. He's a judge on the Oklahoma uh Court of Civil Appeals, and a district judge in Oklahoma County. He graduated from Oklahoma City University School of Law. He has a deep commitment to the Constitution and the people of Oklahoma, and I'm confident that he will serve the state, the country, and the Constitution well. Zach West currently serves in the Oklahoma Attorney General's office. Has previously served as a Deputy Solicitor General for our state. He graduated from the University of Oklahoma College of Law. West has a passion for the law and the Constitution. I believe he also will serve our state extremely well. I would ask this committee to also not hold it against him that he's a former staff member for Senator Cruz. So please don't hold that against him, uh, in the process. I look forward to the swift confirmation of both these nominee nominees and I do thank this committee for holding the hearing today.

Sen. Grassley (IA)36:00 – 36:03

Thank you, Senator Langford. Now, Senator Coroner.

Sen. Cornyn (TX)36:05 – 43:06

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I wanna take just a moment before I introduce um Richard Bennett and Courtney Coker to talk about the process that brings us here today. First of all, I would tell the uh nominees that the fact that not all of these seats are filled is a good thing. Um, I always tell uh people who appear before congressional committees if every seat is filled by a senator, you are in deep trouble. But because these nominees are generally speaking not controversial, um, and because senators have multiple, uh, conflicts, typically three things scheduled at the same time, it's, uh, it's not easy to be everywhere you want to be when you want to be there. But in the case of the nominees coming from Texas, Um, Senator Cruz and I have something that I'm very proud of. I know he is too, called the Federal Judicial Evaluation Committee. We issue, uh, notices, uh, to people who want to serve that they can apply through this committee. And it is comprised of, um, I can't remember what the exact number is, now thirty or more of the state's best lawyers. And, uh, we certainly have some outstanding members of the bar. in Texas, and they are, I think, the best qualified to be able to assess the qualifications of the people who want to serve in these lifetime tenured uh jobs. So that's the first step. They have to pass muster with the committee, and then they are recommended to Senator Cruz and me. We of course get a chance to uh interview them and then uh recommend them to the White House. Uh, these nominations are the President's choice, not ours. But we do play a very important role in terms of the of the confirmation process. And I like to think that we assist the White House in terms of our due diligence that we do to make sure that only the best and the brightest people make it this far. And then of course there's the committee process uh that we're engaged in here today, where the witnesses will answer some questions. Then, in a short time hopefully the chairman will schedule a mark-up, they will pass out a committee and then they'll be ready for action on on the floor. But because these are very, very important positions, and uh they are lifetime tenured, um they can't be fired, um judges can be impeached for extraordinary circumstances, but uh to me this is one of the things that distinguishes our country from the rest of the world. Other countries who claim to be uh uh, what Justice Scalia once called parchment democracies. He pointed out that even countries like the former Soviet Union had a pretty good look in the Constitution on paper but what distinguished the United States from the rest of the world and which I think still protects us today, is our independent uh judiciary. So with that, let me, Mister Chairman, let me uh just mention that uh uh Richard Bennett and Courtney Coker are here today, uh recommended by their president, nominated for these important positions. Um, in the case of Mister Bennet for Southern District of Texas, Houston Division. And, uh, while he has North Texas roots as a graduate of Texas Christian University and Southern Methodist University's, Dedman School of Law, he spent the last two decades of his career in many parts of the lone star state. After cheering on the rare dual allegiance of the TCU Horned Frogs and SMU Mustangs, Mr. Bennett began his legal career as Chief Attorney in the Galveston County District Attorney's Office. Uh, he then headed further south to serve as Assistant US Attorney for the Western District of Texas, Del Rio Division, before becoming Assistant Chief Counsel on Immigration and Customs Enforcement for the Department of Homeland Security. Most recently, he has made home in the Bayou City and served as the Assistant United States Attorney for the Southern District of Texas. houston division. Throughout his tenure, mister binnit has served with integrity and deep respect for the rule of law, and I look forward to him uh continuing to serve texans in this new position, once confirmed, and I would encourage all my colleagues to support the nomination. Let me say a word about courtney coker, who's been nominated to be a us district judge for the northern district of texas. That's the dallas division. From serving in Florida, Tennessee and Mississippi as the chief of the criminal division, to working as a solo practitioner and adjunct professor, there's no question that Mister Coker's experience uh qualifies him, uh with the sort of experience and knowledge one needs to hold and perform well in these important positions. And while Mister Coker may have taken the scenic route to the lone star state, uh we have a saying that uh uh um He got here as fast as you could. Um, we're glad to have him as an adopted Texan. He served as the lead attorney in the North uh, the North Texas Homeland Security Task Force since last year, and joined the US Attorney's Office for the Northern District of Texas in twenty twenty. Uh, last uh, as I heard last Thursday while I was in Dallas for the investiture of Ryan Rebold as the new uh, US Attorney for the Northern District of Texas, Courtney. Coker has been instrumental in helping recruit the talent. That our new uh US Attorney needs there and the Department of Justice needs there. In order to deal with the growing population. In Texas and uh growing challenges to our criminal justice system. In these roles he's earned a reputation as a top-level prosecutor. Holding dangerous criminals accountable to keep the public safe. We are privileged to live in a country with an independent judiciary, as I said, but that system will not succeed on its own. In order for it to work, we need judges who are dedicated to the rule of law, not uh the whims of popular opinion or politics, and who operate with that, with integrity and without fear or favor. Judge Bennett and Mister Coker are exceptionally qualified, and I'm grateful for both of them for volunteering for this job, along with their families, and as we know, and as I think Senator Murkowski noted, none of us get to do any of these kinds of jobs without the love and support of our families. So I urge my colleagues on the committee to uh, uh, favorably report these nominations and would ask the rest of my colleagues to uh, support the present's nomination and confirm them as soon as possible. Thank you, sir.

Sen. Grassley (IA)43:06 – 43:17

Thank you, Senator Cornyn. Well, the nominees uh get ready to come to the table just as soon as we get your name plates up there i'd ask you to stand and i'll swear you

Sen. Cornyn (TX)43:26 – 43:27

uh

Sen. Grassley (IA)44:03 – 44:07

i think i gotta wait until we get one of these microphones fix that

Richard Bennett (Witness)44:27 – 44:28

jacket

Sen. Grassley (IA)45:03 – 45:18

oh god You uh please uh raise your hand. Uh Do you swear that the testimony you're about to give before this committee will be the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth, so help you God.

Richard Bennett (Witness)45:18 – 45:19

I can do this.

Sen. Grassley (IA)45:19 – 45:39

I notice you all were affirmed that. Thank you very much. Please sit down. And we'll start with uh Mister Ballot and go down the table that way. Uh you can uh give your opening statements, uh introduce uh any uh supporters you want to do or whatever you wanna do for five minutes.

Daniel Balou (Witness)45:40 – 48:18

ok thank you sir uh mister chairman and a ranking member and all the senators and your staff who i know work very hard from this committee i wanna thank you for the opportunity to be here today it's truly a blessing um it's actually an amazing experience uh i wanna thank president trump for nominating me and i wanna thank senator mcconnell and senator paul for um recommending me to the white house uh i have three people here with me today um that uh have been through a whole lot with me during my life and i'm gonna start with uh introducing uh you all to two marines that i served with eh various different times in my career Uh first, Colonel Doug Mason, who is a retired uh Colonel of Marines. And Master Gunnery Sergeant Chris Lake, who is a retired uh senior NCO. Uh these these gentlemen uh uh are like family. Family is may or may not uh involve DNA. Um in this case it's a Marine Corps green DNA, but they are a family. So, uh, it is truly an honor for me, uh, to have them by my side. Uh, went through some challenging times with, uh, these guys and, uh, some uncomfortable, uh, experiences. So, not that I'm overly comfortable here, because frankly I'm not. This is, uh, a little different experience, but having these two guys sit behind me puts everything in perspective. And I'm saving the best for the last, and that is my wife, Angie. No, I can't uh, if I elaborate on her too much, I'll start crying. And I cannot do that with these two Marines sitting behind me, because I'll never hear the end of it. I will just say this, she is my best friend, my soul mate. And if the Lord said, you got five minutes left on this planet, I'd wanna spend them, all five with her. And as much as I hope to every senator decides to hire me for this job um whether i get everybody's vote or nobody's vote um i get to go home with her so i've already won and uh thank you all for allowing me to be here

Sen. Grassley (IA)48:18 – 48:24

thank you uh sir judge ball now um mr. bennett judge bennett

Richard Bennett (Witness)48:26 – 50:28

thank you chairman grassley and ranking member Durbin for scheduling the hearing this morning, and the committee members for considering my nomination. Of course, I would like to thank President Trump for the great honor of this nomination. It is truly the honor of a lifetime. I would also like to thank both Senators Cornyn and Cruz for their recommendation of me to the White House. Thank you, Senator Cornyn, for that generous introduction. And I wanna thank you for your support throughout this confirmation process. I have a number of family members here who I would like to recognize. for their support today and throughout my career. First, I'd like to thank God for all the blessings he's bestowed upon me and my family. Carolyn, my wife of twenty-one years, is here, and without her faith, love and support, especially in raising our two boys and taking care of our younger son Thomas when he was sick, I would not be in this position today. My older son Jackson, a new Baylor University student, is taking time from class to be here today, and I could not be more proud of all his accomplishments. I believe our younger son Thomas is here in spirit, as he passed on to be with our Lord in twenty twenty three, and we sure miss him. I'd also like to thank my parents, James and Margarita, for being here. My parents' love and support have instilled in me the values of family, sacrifice, perseverance, and hard work. And I have several other family members here, including my wife's aunt and uncle, Alan and Mary, my brother Jay, and my wife's cousin and sister Laura. Thank you all for being here. My in-laws Dale and Sally could not make it today, but I thank them for their support as well. I'd like to recognize my law clerks, Matthew and Meredith, who are also here, and thank them for all their hard work. Having devoted most of my career to public service and the fair and impartial application of the law, I look forward to continuing that service if I am fortunate enough to be confirmed as a United States District Judge. With that, I greatly appreciate the opportunity to address the committee, and I look forward to answering your questions. Thank you.

Sen. Grassley (IA)50:28 – 50:31

Thank you very much. You may now proceed, sir.

Courtney Coker (Witness)50:33 – 53:49

Chairman Grassley, Ranking Member Durbin, and all the committee. Thank you for scheduling this hearing. I wanna first thank President Trump for this nomination. Only in America can a farm kid from rural Kentucky get an opportunity to rise in experience such an amazing dream. I'm truly humbled. Also wanted to thank Senators Cornyn and Cruz for having the faith and confidence in me to fulfill such important position. And I also wanna thank Senator Cornyn and Cruz for what you do for our nation and for the great state of Texas. And thank you, Senator Cornyn, for your nice introduction. I next wanna thank my family. First and foremost, my wife Lorraine. From the first day we met when I started as a federal prosecutor, in her native Puerto Rico, she's been my biggest supporter. Her love, support and sacrifice have allowed me to pursue a career in public service. Also wanna thank my son Daniel, who served in the Air Force for six years, and my daughter Luna. Both have always inspired me. I wanna thank my mother, who's no longer with us. She was the first person to put a book in my hand and inspired a lifetime of learning. I wanna thank my father, who got up every day of his life and worked hard to support our family. His example of hard work is an integral part of who I am today. Also wanna thank my brother and his wife who are here with me today, and my two sisters and other family family members watching from home. Professionally, I'd like to thank all the members of the Department of Justice, who I've served with during the last eighteen and a half years. More specifically, I wanna acknowledge the men and women of the United States Attorney's Office for the Northern District of Texas. Their hard work and love of country is amazing, and I'm very proud to serve side by side with them every day. Specifically, I wanna sing out, single out my appreciation for former US Attorney Mike Hurst of the Southern District of Mississippi for giving me my first chance in department leadership. Former US Attorney Erin Neely Cox. for bringing me to the Northern District of Texas. And finally current US Attorney Ryan Raybold for hiring me as his first assistant US Attorney. I also wanna acknowledge three of my US Attorney colleagues who are here today to support me. Jeremy Fugate, Fabio Leonardi, and Ted Kuperstein. Last, but certainly li- certainly not least, I wanna thank all of my high school and football coaches, and college football coaches. along with all the incredible teachers I had through the years. Today is their success as well. I will end it, I will end with this. From the moment I chose to pursue a legal career, my motivation has always been to serve and strengthen our great country, not for personal gain, but out of a deep commitment to accomplish what is best for America. If I'm fortunate enough to be confirmed, I commit to all of you that I will conduct myself with faithfulness and fidelity to the Constitution. and the rule of law. Thank you.

Kyle Reardon (Witness)53:49 – 53:50

Thank you.

Sen. Grassley (IA)53:50 – 53:51

Now Judge Paramerica.

Trevor Pemberton (Witness)53:54 – 55:25

Thank you, Chairman Grassley, Ranking Member Durbin, and members of this committee for having me here today. I'll be brief and begin by giving glory to God. I'm immensely grateful to President Trump for this nomination and to my home state senators James Lankford and Alan Armstrong for their support. I'd like to also recognize my beautiful wife, Caitlin, my greatest advocate, who is here with my loving in-laws, Kevin and Donna Roether, and thank you to my sister-in-law, Carly, the best elementary school teacher in the country, for joining us as well. My parents could not make the trip, but I especially want to thank them. The sacrifices they made to give my brother and me opportunities like this are too numerous to capture in a brief statement. My mom is now just weeks from retirement after working tirelessly for many years. at times three different jobs to support my brother and me growing up. Mom, I'm very proud of you. I'd also like to recognize my brother, Derek, his wife, Jamie, and my nephew and niece, Leland and Elena, who aren't here but may be watching from home. Finally, I'm grateful for the many friends and mentors who have invested in me, including the late Mark Burgett, who exemplified humility and grace. while we strive to do the same while faithfully applying the law as written without fear or favor. Thank you again for the opportunity to be here. I look forward to your questions.

Sen. Grassley (IA)55:26 – 55:28

Thank you, Judge Pemberton. Now, Judge Radin.

Kyle Reardon (Witness)55:30 – 57:52

Chairman Grassley. Chairman Grassley, Ranking Member Durbin. Thank you for holding this hearing, and for allowing me and my fellow nominees to appear. I would like to thank President Trump for this nomination. the professional honor of a lifetime and i'm humbled by his confidence in me i wanna thank senator merkowski for her introduction and i wanna thank her and senator sullivan and their staffs for the work that they have done on behalf of my nomination before acknowledging the people who are here with me today i wanna recognize those who could not be here my judicial assistant erica my law clerk chloe and my principal courtroom deputy alexis and everyone in the district court for the district of alaska for their support and encouragement throughout this process. i'm joined here today by family friend ashley conlon and by my longtime army buddy, greg weiss. and i wanna thank greg for his support throughout this confirmation process and nomination process. i'm also joined by my family, my brother pat and his wife leslie. my brother is everything an older brother should be, a role model, a protector, and someone who was and remains a hero to me. i'm joined by my parents, jean and melody my parents gave so much to my brother and i to ensure that we had every opportunity to succeed words cannot express how grateful i am for all that they have done my kids are here today and i am thankful to their teachers for excusing them from their classes so that they can experience our constitution in action my kids are kind talented and smart And I am proud of the fine young men that they are. And finally, I wanna acknowledge my wife. My wife is an incredible, beautiful woman, an accomplished engineer, a dedicated public servant, committed to making Alaska a better and safer place, and a wonderful mother and partner. Sitting here today, I realize that I have far surpassed what I thought was possible, from a legal career when I applied to law school. I'm thankful that my skills and good fortune have allowed me to serve the people of this country and of my state. I hope to continue that service as United States District Judge for the District of Alaska. Thank you and I look forward to your questions.

Sen. Grassley (IA)57:52 – 57:54

Thank you Judge Reardon, now Mister West.

Zachary West (Witness)57:57 – 1:00:02

Chairman Grassley, Ranking Member Durbin, it is truly an honor to be back here today, a decade after I worked for this committee. Thank you, President Trump, for your unwavering support and for nominating me to this position. And thank you, Senator Lankford and Senator Armstrong, for your support and for Senator Lankford's kind comments here. I also wanna thank Senator Cruz for taking a chance all those years ago on an okie like me. There are so many more people I could acknowledge, but first and foremost, I must offer my praise to my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. Next, I cannot say enough about my beautiful wife, Alicia. who is here with me and has meant everything to me over the past seventeen years. We got married after my first year of law school at the University of Oklahoma, and it is no coincidence that my grades improved immediately. Raising five children with Alicia is the privilege of my life. Unfortunately, only one of those kiddos could be here today, the youngest, since the others had sports and music commitments back in Oklahoma, but that's okay. This may be the one instance where the youngest child gets to experience something that none of the older siblings ever did. I also owe a mountain of gratitude to my parents, Laban and Susie West, for their unwavering support, prayers, and encouragement throughout the years. They could not be here today, but I wish they were, and I wish that there was a piano in this room, so my dad could perform for you. Then you could listen to a truly talented West, rather than just me. I would also like to recognize my brother-in-law, Darren Hudson, his wife, Mary, and their daughter, who have joined us here today, as well as our friends, Randy and Sarah Alice. Thank you for your support. Finally, I'd like to express my appreciation to Judge Bobby Baldock and Judge Jayleon Holmes for hiring me as a law clerk all of those years ago. I wouldn't be here without the foundational example that they set for me in chambers as humble men dedicated to the rule of law. i hope that i can follow their example i'm happy to answer your questions

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:00:02 – 1:00:27

thank you we'll now go to questioning and uh i'll start we'll have five minute rounds judge balou you've spent uh at least twenty five years as a state judge in that time you've presided over thousands of cases and i understand a hundred and twenty jury trials please tell us what you learned as a state judge that you will help you be a federal judge

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:00:30 – 1:01:33

Uh thank you uh Mister Chairman. Um over the years uh serving on the bench, I have um learned a lot, learn a lot every day. So next week I'll learn even more. And I think one of the most important things for a judge is to maintain an uh open mind, open ears, and uh be a good listener and a good learner. So obviously following the law is the most important thing, not making, But there are also there are also other attributes that are very very important. And uh one another attributes very important is, don't ever forget, when you come in the room and a bailiff says, I'll rise, they're not getting up for Dan. Uh they're getting up for the Court of Justice. Uh they all rise in recognition and respect for our system, not any individual, especially not the referee. which is what the judge is so that's one of the things i learned keeps you humble and keeps you open-minded to maintain that perspective

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:01:34 – 1:01:35

judge bennett

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:01:34 – 1:01:35

thank you

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:01:36 – 1:01:58

uh prior to becoming a magistrate judge you spent more than a decade as a prosecutor in texas you've seen the inside of of the uh s district courthouse from both angles as an advocate and as a judge please tell us how these roles shape your view on the administration of justice.

Richard Bennett (Witness)1:01:59 – 1:03:20

Thank you, Chairman Grassley. As a prosecutor in Houston in the Southern District of Texas, my duty was to see that justice was done in accordance with the Constitution and the laws that meant that all the cases that are prosecuted were supported by probable cause and could be proven beyond a reasonable doubt. That also meant protecting the rights of si- of of uh victims, making sure that the victims were heard and that their rights were upheld. It also made it also meant to um make sure that the defendant's rights under the constitution, particularly the fourth, fifth and sixth amendments were followed. It also meant that appearing before those judges that you needed to be prepared, you needed to know the law and the facts of your case, and being able to argue those concisely and efficiently before a judge or a jury. Similarly, as a magistrate judge, I strive to be a fair partial judge following the law and the constitution. I make sure, I strive to make sure that the litigants who appear before me, that their rights are upheld, that they're able to present their cases through motion practice, through hearings, or through trial if need be. That also means, again, being prepared. Before walking into my courtroom, I make sure to read the pleadings filed by the parties, make sure to research the law, so that I walk in there knowing the issues that I need to rule on and recognize.

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:03:23 – 1:03:24

OK, Mister Coker.

Richard Bennett (Witness)1:03:24 – 1:03:43

Bottom line, Senator, is that in most of those positions, you must follow the law, follow the Constitution, be fair and impartial. That's what's expected in the Southern District of Texas. That's what I try strive to do as a magistrate judge. And if I'm unfortunate enough to be confirmed, that's what I will continue to do as a United States District Judge. Thank you.

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:03:43 – 1:04:13

Thank you, Mister Coker. You've been in US Attorney's offices at least four different locations. Uh, we don't have very many people that's traveled that route very often, if at all. Uh, currently you're a first assistant to Northern District, Texas. What have you learned from handling cases in so many different parts of the country, and how that's prepared you to handle the diversity of matters that you'd see as a district judge?

Courtney Coker (Witness)1:04:14 – 1:05:28

Yes, Senator. Um, for the last eighteen and a half years, I've grown up in the district courtrooms, uh, in all of the five districts that I've served in. It's given me an opportunity to see a a vast, uh, uh, different kinds of crimes, uh, interacted with, uh, different, uh, kinds of people, uh, been able to put together different kinds of teams. I've alfa- I've also had a chance to, uh, see the positives and - and - and the best practices of numerous federal judges throughout these five districts. But the one thing through all five districts that I've um has been a constant is when you go to different districts, the one thing that you can do that's constant is you bury yourself in the rules. So I've always, always gone back to the federal rules. Developing that kind of habit, uh whether it be the uh prosecuting the Colombian uh narco traffickers in the southern district of Florida and the district of Puerto Rico, or the Mexican cartels in the Northern District of Texas. The one North Star that I've always uh come back to is fidelity to the Constitution and the rule of law and I believe that those attributes will help me if I'm lucky enough to be confirmed. Thank you, Senator.

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:05:28 – 1:05:41

Yeah. Uh, my time's up, so I'm going to have to submit my questions for the rest of you in writing, unless we got time at the tail end. Senator Durbin.

Sen. Durbin (IL)1:05:42 – 1:07:00

Thanks Chairman Grassley and thank you all for being here uh today. Excuse me. I uh welcome your family and friends for this important day in your life. Judge Balou first. Thank you for serving our country and for reminding us that uh uh many people see public service beyond the courtroom and you have in your life experience. So I'd I'd like to ask you about something. Last week I was in Joliet, Illinois, not too far from Chicago. It was the annual observance of the specialty courts in that jurisdiction. These are courts that are specially designed for nonviolent defendants who are suffering from drug problems, for example, or previous veterans who come out of the service dealing with PTSD. We found that the justice system, if it's flexible in dealing with them in that circumstance, can get much better results, can try to finally shake any addiction to alcohol or drugs, and set them on a path for a good life. This has been going on year after year after year. I'm a big supporter of drug courts, veterans courts, specialty courts like the one in Joliette. You called these courts social engineering and claimed that they quote " do great harm" by validating and encouraging, excuse making, and promoting a lack of accountability. Could you explain that?

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:07:01 – 1:08:38

Yes, sir, Senator. Um, uh, first I would say I acknowledge, and I I used to do drug court and we still have I acknowledge there's a lot of benefits to drug court. Um, and I know other circuits in Kentucky have uh, veterans courts and other courts. Uh, my concern with these specialty courts is basically what I said. They become avenues for excuse making. So, um, and I think most people that I know that are involved in specialty courts, have the absolute best of intentions. And they are trying to help. And I think specialty courts do help. But the only one that I've seen that really, really helps a lot is Juvenile Drug Court. It was a fantastic program. And in Kentucky, due to budgetary concerns, they got rid of that and kept the other ones. But I don't think specialty courts are all bad. But I'll take me for an example. I'm a veteran. And I'm uh proud of uh the folks I served with. And I absolutely recognize that PTSD, for example, is a big problem for my people, my fellow veterans. But it's also a big problem for adults who are the victims of child abuse. They have PTSD and there's other circumstances where people can have PTSD and it makes it hard for them the rest of their lives. So my concern is why are we partitioning out one group of people with a significant problem, PTSD for example, and having a special court for them? um but yes yes sir

Sen. Durbin (IL)1:08:39 – 1:09:42

thank you i'd like to ask uh judge west in pemberton a question related to a controversy in oklahoma which occurred i believe when uh mister west was the oklahoma attorney general involving abortion i know that this is a very controversial issue i can tell you after a lifetime in congress i've heard most of the arguments of pro and con from every angle But in that case it appeared that one of the major decisions, uh, major elements in the decision by the Oklahoma Supreme Court was whether an exception should be made for abortions to save the life of a mother. And I believe the argument, uh, uh, Mr. West made before the court, uh, was for a position, a legislative position, which did not protect that. And I believe that, uh, Mr. Pemberton, after the Supreme Court in Oklahoma struck down that statute, that you said that the, that it was a remarkably troubling decision. Could you explain today your thoughts on that issue as to whether there should be an exception to save the life of a pregnant mother?

Zachary West (Witness)1:09:45 – 1:11:00

Senator Durbin, I appreciate your question. And I would start by saying, um, you know, the question of what exceptions should exist i in abortion law, especially in Oklahoma, is a, is a topic of current and and feisty political debate. And so as a judicial candidate, it would not be appropriate for me under the canons to to interject myself into that debate as to which exce exceptions should exist. Uh, I would say to clarify the litigation though, um, the arguments that I advanced on behalf of the state of Oklahoma was that the constitution of Oklahoma simply did not speak to the topic of abortion, but at the same time, uh, we were supporting the law that had existed for a hundred years that had a life exception in it to uh an exception to say exception for for the life of the mother. And the Oklahoma Supreme Court upheld that law, uh, with the life exception in it. Uh, so our arguments were never that there there shouldn't be a life exception. It was simply that the Oklahoma Constitution didn't speak to it, but that the long-standing Oklahoma abortion law, uh, had a life exception, and, uh, that that life exception, uh, was valid and legitimate. And the Oklahoma Supreme Court upheld that particular law that had been on the books for, over a hundred years in Oklahoma.

Sen. Durbin (IL)1:11:00 – 1:11:15

Judge Pemberton, you said publicly that you found that decision by the Oklahoma Supreme Court, the uh preserving that right to uh uh uh an abortion in the life of a mother, situation to be remarkably troubling. Is that your view today?

Trevor Pemberton (Witness)1:11:15 – 1:11:39

Uh, first of all, like uh, Mister West indicated, don't believe it would be proper as a judicial nominee to address those policy issues one way or another. Uh, I think the the context of the comments, uh, I was, uh, addressing the analysis and the reasoning included in the Supreme Court's opinion. And so there's more context, I think respectfully, uh, than was offered.

Sen. Durbin (IL)1:11:41 – 1:11:42

Mr. Chairman, could I ask one more question?

Zachary West (Witness)1:11:42 – 1:11:43

Please.

Sen. Durbin (IL)1:11:43 – 1:11:58

Uh, I'm gonna ask you, uh, a question. In several cases you have advocated against tribal sovereignty. Uh, would you please state your position or at least whether you will follow precedent when it comes to tribal sovereign sovereignty.

Trevor Pemberton (Witness)1:11:58 – 1:12:34

Well, fir first of all, I'm certainly always going to uh apply precedent to my courtroom. I I would I would take issue with the characterization. I don't think that I've taken issue with or uh been been opposed to tribal sovereignty. Uh, I respect tribes in Oklahoma and elsewhere certainly respect their sovereignty, which is why uh during my time in the governor's office I'd made it a point to develop and build relationships and ultimately to get a number of compacts historic compacts across the finish line after having negotiated in good faith with those sovereigns thank you thank you mr. chairman

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:12:35 – 1:12:35

so i'll record it

Sen. Cornyn (TX)1:12:37 – 1:13:08

mr. chairman uh as i've explained i know uh mr. bennett and mr. Koch are well so i certainly don't have any more questions for them and i look forward to supporting all the nominees but uh what i'd like to do is yield my time back um because you will now be subject to the tender mercies of the senator from louisiana um and his rather infamous line of questioning so um i yield back do you i'm supposed to go to yeah

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:13:08 – 1:13:10

i think you're yielding for him

Sen. Cornyn (TX)1:13:12 – 1:13:13

you can go ahead and do that

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:13:13 – 1:13:14

oh senator

Sen. Cornyn (TX)1:13:14 – 1:13:16

no sir so i'm sorry i'm confused

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:13:16 – 1:13:17

yeah senator erano

Sen. Hirono (HI)1:13:19 – 1:13:50

thank you mr. chairman welcome to each of you i asked the following to initial questions of all nominees before any of the committees on which i sit to ensure the fitness to serve so um i'll start with uh judge balou and go right down the list my questions are since you became a legal adult have you ever made um unwanted requests for sexual favors or committed any verbal or physical harassment or assault of a sexual nature

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:13:51 – 1:13:52

no senator

Sen. Hirono (HI)1:13:54 – 1:13:55

down the line please

Courtney Coker (Witness)1:13:55 – 1:13:57

no senator no senator

Trevor Pemberton (Witness)1:13:58 – 1:13:58

no senator

Courtney Coker (Witness)1:13:59 – 1:13:59

no senator

Sen. Hirono (HI)1:14:01 – 1:14:06

second question have you ever faced discipline or entered into a settlement relating to this kind of conduct

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:14:07 – 1:14:08

no senator

Courtney Coker (Witness)1:14:08 – 1:14:11

no senator no senator

Trevor Pemberton (Witness)1:14:11 – 1:14:12

no senator

Courtney Coker (Witness)1:14:12 – 1:14:13

no senator

Trevor Pemberton (Witness)1:14:13 – 1:14:14

no senator

Sen. Hirono (HI)1:14:16 – 1:14:21

For mister Balou, uh how does our country benefit from diversity of religion?

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:14:25 – 1:14:30

Uh, Senator, I think our country benefits from all kinds of diversity,

Sen. Hirono (HI)1:14:30 – 1:14:31

Mm-hmm.

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:14:31 – 1:15:00

not just religion, but uh I think what makes America beautiful and special and unique is its diversity. I think what makes America strong and courageous is the common commitment to our constitution. So sure uh senator, I agree, religious diversity, racial diver- all kind of political diversity makes us really unique.

Sen. Hirono (HI)1:15:01 – 1:15:12

Hmm. Thank you. Mister Bennet, it is confirmed, do you intend to make an effort to hire law clerks from diverse backgrounds?

Richard Bennett (Witness)1:15:13 – 1:15:23

Senator, if I'm fortunate enough to be confirmed, I will hire law clerks based on what I've done before, is hire based on merit. I will hire the best qualified regardless of their background.

Sen. Hirono (HI)1:15:25 – 1:15:32

So um having a diverse group of clerics, for example, is not a priority for you?

Richard Bennett (Witness)1:15:32 – 1:15:40

As senator, again regardless of their backgrounds, I hire the best qualified and the ones who can do the job, whatever their background is.

Sen. Hirono (HI)1:15:47 – 1:16:02

mister uh uh for mister coker you've worked in the us attorney's offices in four different states plus puerto rico do you think the federal judiciary should reflect the communities it serves why or why not

Courtney Coker (Witness)1:16:05 – 1:16:34

uh senator the judiciary should reflect uh the best and brightest of our nation. Um, and I think that if a a a a fair and honest process plays out, uh, we will have diversity in the judiciary. And, um, I've been fortunate enough to, uh, practice, uh, in a very, uh, with a group of very diverse judges and and, uh, have benefited greatly from that. Thank you, Senator.

Sen. Hirono (HI)1:16:36 – 1:16:51

So, uh, when when you testify there are two of you at least who have testified there. that uh you will pick the best and brightest um often there are such things as uh do you acknowledge uh such a thing as implicit bias mr coker

Courtney Coker (Witness)1:16:54 – 1:16:54

uh

Sen. Hirono (HI)1:16:54 – 1:16:57

have you ever heard of the uh idea of implicit bias

Courtney Coker (Witness)1:16:57 – 1:17:06

uh yes senator i've um uh in my role in the department of justice i've actually uh had implicit bias uh trainings and and things like that

Sen. Hirono (HI)1:17:05 – 1:17:45

and that could result in uh not necessarily the best and the brightest but uh certain kinds of people getting hired and i put that out to you all because i think we all uh we should all acknowledge that there is implicit bias and implicit means that we really don't even acknowledge or think about it as uh with reference to ourselves but it's there so going on to mister pembleton uh i believe that oklahoma has um over thirty five federally recognized tribal nations dozens uh how do you think oklahoma benefits from having that kind of uh diversity in its population

Trevor Pemberton (Witness)1:17:46 – 1:18:00

sure and i think we actually have thirty eight um uh federally recognized tribes thirty nine uh tribes altogether uh i think they've they've served a a great role continue to serve a great purpose in the state of oklahoma

Sen. Hirono (HI)1:18:01 – 1:18:07

so you you you sit here and say that uh the tribal rights uh should be of uh upheld

Trevor Pemberton (Witness)1:18:07 – 1:18:10

i think that all laws on the books should be upheld

Sen. Hirono (HI)1:18:13 – 1:18:38

ok well tribal rights ok so i i'm just trying to get to uh um uh making sure that that you know um it's good to know that the uh all laws should be upheld that's good as judges that's what you ought to do but um particularly though uh to acknowledge that the kind of uh diverse population represented by these tribes is uh of benefit to your state

Trevor Pemberton (Witness)1:18:38 – 1:18:47

yes just just going back yeah going back to my original answer certainly they they serve a great benefit to the state and uh oklahoma is very proud to have them

Sen. Hirono (HI)1:18:39 – 1:18:58

just a note ok ok two more very quick quick questions uh for judge verdon why is it important to support diversity in the judiciary and in the legal profession

Kyle Reardon (Witness)1:19:01 – 1:19:11

senator i think the judiciary should support uh as my colleague said hiring the the best and the brightest and if we do that for for uh then the issue of having a she just got one more question

Zachary West (Witness)1:19:11 – 1:19:12

for whatever reason

Kyle Reardon (Witness)1:19:11 – 1:19:16

i diverse judiciary in a diverse legal field will take care of itself i'm so easy she's got one more question

Zachary West (Witness)1:19:15 – 1:19:16

i said too easy

Kyle Reardon (Witness)1:19:17 – 1:19:17

for whatever

Sen. Hirono (HI)1:19:18 – 1:19:24

oh that's nice but i don't think that is necessarily reality one more question

Kyle Reardon (Witness)1:19:24 – 1:19:24

for

Sen. Hirono (HI)1:19:24 – 1:19:25

mister chairman

Kyle Reardon (Witness)1:19:25 – 1:19:25

for me

Sen. Hirono (HI)1:19:25 – 1:19:27

mister west uh how do you define diversity

Zachary West (Witness)1:19:30 – 1:19:49

uh thank you senator for the question um i i would define diversity as a differences uh it could be differences of background opinion uh political persuasion religion uh race it's it's just differences differences between people

Sen. Hirono (HI)1:19:49 – 1:19:53

and do you think that uh diversity is a is a positive thing

Zachary West (Witness)1:19:53 – 1:19:55

uh it certainly can be yes

Sen. Hirono (HI)1:19:55 – 1:20:07

generally i mean anything can be but generally would you say that diversity is a positive thing because we have a diverse country with uh diversity of race religion backgrounds, education

Zachary West (Witness)1:20:08 – 1:20:28

yes i would say generally it is a good thing as to echo mister uh pemberton i think in oklahoma uh it has been a it diversity has been a great thing i have enjoyed being raised in a state uh that has uh the the tribal nations that i greatly respect and um it's i think it's been very good for oklahoma and i can speak obviously for my state uh in that sense

Sen. Hirono (HI)1:20:29 – 1:20:31

thank you thank you mr. chairman

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:20:31 – 1:20:34

senator kennedy kennedy

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:20:40 – 1:20:45

uh mr. coker you took implicit bias training

Courtney Coker (Witness)1:20:46 – 1:20:50

uh yes senator it was required under uh the last administration

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:20:50 – 1:20:52

yes sir what is bias

Courtney Coker (Witness)1:20:54 – 1:21:05

uh my understanding of bias is uh your um world view of something that uh may judge how you see a situation or a thing

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:21:06 – 1:21:15

it it means i i intend to disadvantage someone or something doesn't it

Courtney Coker (Witness)1:21:15 – 1:21:16

yes senator

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:21:19 – 1:21:19

so

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:21:20 – 1:21:22

but are you done or you wanna end the meeting

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:21:22 – 1:21:27

i can be i can have intent but not know i have intent

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:21:27 – 1:21:28

we we need to know

Courtney Coker (Witness)1:21:28 – 1:21:30

i don't believe so you're uh send her

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:21:31 – 1:21:37

Well, then I, how can I have implicit bias? Does that mean I'm biased, but I don't know I'm biased?

Courtney Coker (Witness)1:21:38 – 1:21:45

I didn't agree with the implicit bias, um, but I I agree with your um assessment, Senator.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:21:46 – 1:21:58

OK. Um, Mister West, uh, you talked about the Oklahoma constitution, um, and it doesn't mention abortion. Is that what you said?

Zachary West (Witness)1:21:59 – 1:22:01

Yes, I believe that's what I said.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:22:02 – 1:22:06

Um, does the US Supreme Court or US Constitution mention abortion?

Zachary West (Witness)1:22:07 – 1:22:08

It does not, Senator.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:22:08 – 1:22:11

So how could the Supreme Court hand down Roe v Wade?

Zachary West (Witness)1:22:12 – 1:22:20

Well, in the Dobbs decision, uh the Supreme Court said that handing down Roe versus Wade was uh was a mistake, it was a incorrect decision.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:22:20 – 1:22:24

Yeah, but what was the what was the basis for handing down Roe v Wade?

Zachary West (Witness)1:22:24 – 1:22:42

Uh, it was based on uh the right to privacy and um uh also kind of tying in different threads of the the constitution whether it be from equal protection or to the ninth amendment um but it was based i think on the right to privacy stretched from um griswold.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:22:39 – 1:22:53

mmm right when when can the uh when can the president of the united states use military force against a foreign country

Zachary West (Witness)1:22:55 – 1:23:10

Um, that is a question i have to be really careful about because of the fact that uh, there's a current political controversy, but constitutionally, um, the president is the commander-in-chief, and i know there are supreme court cases and other.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:23:10 – 1:23:21

Yeah, but give me the instances when the president of the United States, consistent with the constitution, can use military force, you know, laterally against another country.

Zachary West (Witness)1:23:22 – 1:23:23

i'm sorry i didn't hear the end of the question

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:23:23 – 1:23:40

uh give me tell me when the president of the united states can use military force as commander in chief of the of the armed services uh unilaterally without anybody's permission against a foreign country that's all i'm asking

Zachary West (Witness)1:23:40 – 1:23:43

well i think the area in which that would be uh indisputably

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:23:43 – 1:23:46

list them for me what are the instances

Zachary West (Witness)1:23:47 – 1:23:55

well the the first instance that comes to mind is defensively uh that there's any kind of invasion or uh attack on the united states

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:23:54 – 1:23:56

ok that's one when else

Zachary West (Witness)1:23:55 – 1:24:02

yup i would hesitate to opine on uh especially some

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:24:01 – 1:24:06

i'm not asking you to opine i'm just asking you what the constitution says

Zachary West (Witness)1:24:06 – 1:24:13

well the constitution simply says the president is the commander-in-chief and that congress has the power to declare war uh and i'm

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:24:12 – 1:24:22

ok what if what if congress doesn't declare war but the president says i'm commander-in-chief and uh uh i'm gonna slap this country into the morrow

Zachary West (Witness)1:24:23 – 1:24:31

uh i know that there have been numerous examples in the past where congress has not declared war and the president has acted in a military capacity uh

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:24:30 – 1:24:34

uh was he what did he act legally or not

Zachary West (Witness)1:24:35 – 1:24:41

again i don't think i can opine as a judicial candidate on the the definitive legality

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:24:39 – 1:24:48

yeah sure you can sure you can i'm not asking you how you gonna rule in a case i'm asking you tell me the what basis the legal basis of a president acting and so i'm asking you

Zachary West (Witness)1:24:48 – 1:24:57

uh my vague recollection of the president's actions in in past administrations for uh

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:24:57 – 1:25:04

Just give me the legal basis for him acting without uh uh uh uh declaration of a warrant permission of Congress.

Zachary West (Witness)1:25:04 – 1:25:06

As the commander in chief,

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:25:04 – 1:25:05

That's all I'm asking.

Zachary West (Witness)1:25:06 – 1:25:19

uh the the reasoning I've always seen is that there uh there's often preemptive action necessary to prevent an attack or to prevent a hostile activities against the United States or responding to hostile activities overseas.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:25:19 – 1:25:20

But what's the case law say?

Zachary West (Witness)1:25:21 – 1:25:25

Uh, I am not all that familiar with the war powers uh case law, senator.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:25:26 – 1:25:32

OK. Let me ask you one more. What's selective incorporation?

Zachary West (Witness)1:25:33 – 1:25:43

Uh, selective incorporation is the the doctrine uh by which uh the Bill of Rights has been incorporated against the states kind of one by one as opposed to all at once.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:25:44 – 1:25:44

OK.

Zachary West (Witness)1:25:44 – 1:25:52

Uh, and so uh that has led to a situation where there are a few rights or or provisions that have not actually been incorporated yet such as the third amendment.

Kyle Reardon (Witness)1:25:53 – 1:25:53

OK.

Sen. Kennedy (LA)1:25:53 – 1:25:54

Thank you, Mister Chair.

Sen. Moody (FL)1:25:58 – 1:26:33

Thank you, Mister Chairman. I appreciate all of you uh being here today and uh accepting the nominations and being willing to serve your country in judicial roles. I imagine you have family here today that is supporting you and has supported you for a really long time. So let me say thank you to them. I can tell you Uh, as someone with a family who has stood by me, I know that uh sometimes it's often harder on them when you have to go through these hearings and go through things in your career. So thank you to all the families that are here for standing by our judges. Any um buddy here know what tomorrow is? September the seventeenth.

Kyle Reardon (Witness)1:26:35 – 1:26:37

Is it Constitution Day, Senator?

Sen. Moody (FL)1:26:37 – 1:26:41

It is. You get a gold star. It is one of my favorite days of the year.

Kyle Reardon (Witness)1:26:40 – 1:26:40

Yeah.

Sen. Moody (FL)1:26:41 – 1:26:42

It is Constitution Day.

Kyle Reardon (Witness)1:26:41 – 1:26:41

Thank you.

Sen. Moody (FL)1:26:43 – 1:27:01

Uh, in fact, I actually have someone in my team that dresses up for it as one of our founding fathers. I'm sup- you could have dressed up for today. It would have certainly singled you out, but certainly now you you win. Uh, it is Constitution Day. Um, and I will I will stay with you as a reward for answering that question. Uh.

Kyle Reardon (Witness)1:27:01 – 1:27:03

No good deed goes unpunished, does it?

Sen. Moody (FL)1:27:02 – 1:27:17

I'm assuming that you are an expert of our constitution, as it lays out the separation of our branches and how important do you believe um that that is to uh the success of this country at two hundred and fifty years

Kyle Reardon (Witness)1:27:18 – 1:27:42

senator i i think it has been critical to the country's success over the past two hundred and fifty years the the constitution uh articulates the role of each of the branches of government they are separate but equal branches of government and each branch has a role in um doing its job staying within its lane and um performing the functions that are laid out within the constitution

Sen. Moody (FL)1:27:43 – 1:27:54

uh and you think it's important that the judicial branch in fact applies the people's laws through which congress uh acts on their behalf and and makes and makes on their behalf

Kyle Reardon (Witness)1:27:54 – 1:28:16

absolutely senator as one of my colleagues said earlier and as chief justice roberts has said judges are umpires we call balls and strikes we don't make the law Um, w- we don't uh rule in ways that we wish the law were or that we think it should be, um, but as the text is written, uh, and that is our job.

Sen. Moody (FL)1:28:17 – 1:28:26

And, mister um, mister Pemberton, I feel a little bit like I'm a law professor again, using the Socratic method, looking at the class roster.

Trevor Pemberton (Witness)1:28:26 – 1:28:27

That's okay, you got a right.

Sen. Moody (FL)1:28:26 – 1:28:35

Let me ask you, how important do you think the judicial branch is to the stability and long-term success of our democracy in the United States.

Trevor Pemberton (Witness)1:28:35 – 1:28:46

Well, it plays a a unique and distinct role. Uh, and it's it just as uh my friend shared, it's it as well as the other two branches is critically important.

Sen. Moody (FL)1:28:47 – 1:28:47

And what do you,

Trevor Pemberton (Witness)1:28:47 – 1:28:47

Now, see, we

Sen. Moody (FL)1:28:47 – 1:28:52

what do you, how, what, how would you describe the importance of judicial review of the Supreme Court?

Trevor Pemberton (Witness)1:28:53 – 1:29:08

Well, it's critically important that they interpret laws, uh, and that they don't go beyond that and begin engaging in the lawmaking process. Uh, that that's that's when the system begins to fall apart, and when one veers into the other lane.

Sen. Moody (FL)1:29:09 – 1:29:21

And, Mister, uh, Riordan, uh, if if there was a notion that we did away with the Supreme Court, what do you think that would do to the stability of this nation? And our and our our democracy?

Kyle Reardon (Witness)1:29:21 – 1:30:00

The Senator, the Supreme Court is obviously the highest court in the land. It is the case to which, um, cases and controversies from the district courts to the circuit courts are funneled um without a supreme court um you have the practical issue of having potentially different interpretations of laws in multiple districts throughout the country different application of those laws depending upon what circuit or district you might be in and so the the role of supreme court is being that the highest court in the land is to provide a unifying structure so that everyone knows what the rules are and can operate under the rule of law.

Sen. Moody (FL)1:30:00 – 1:30:12

So if there was a a a a notion out there that we could just do away with judicial review by the Supreme Court in this country, anybody wanna comment on what that would do to this nation and the delicate balance of separation of powers? Anybody?

Courtney Coker (Witness)1:30:12 – 1:30:25

Uh, yes, Senator, I I think it would uh weaken our constitution and it would make us uh um nothing more than what Russia or or uh other uh dictatorial or communist nations would be.

Sen. Moody (FL)1:30:26 – 1:30:34

see would seem to play right into the hands of our most adversarial foreign nations. Uh, anybody else wanna comment on what that would do?

Richard Bennett (Witness)1:30:35 – 1:30:46

Uh, Senator, I think that would be devastating to our country, the the constitution, uh, given the Supreme Court under the supremacy clauses, the law of the land. I think it would be incredibly devastating to the country.

Sen. Moody (FL)1:30:47 – 1:31:21

Certainly, uh, would would, um, be subversive to what our founding fathers intended to, protect the freedom uh, that has protected so many Americans for two hundred and fifty years. Uh, appreciate all of you being here today, knowing tomorrow is Constitution Day. I'm loving that this hearing is today, and I thank you for your answers. I agree. It would be insane to support doing away with judicial review of our, by our Supreme Court, uh, for this country's continued success, certainly as a country that values the freedom of its citizens. Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.

Sen. Paul (KY)1:31:23 – 1:31:58

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Mister Balou, in a uh questionnaire for the Kentucky Supreme Court, uh you expressed a strong dislike of what you described as judicial activism, referring to it as one big problem across America. So I wanna ask you about that. If uh a judge were to overturn decades of precedent because of a judge's personal views or cultural views or religious views, Um, would you view that as judicial activism?

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:31:59 – 1:32:07

Uh, Senator, if the judge overturned precedent based on anything other than the the law then sure, yes sir.

Sen. Paul (KY)1:32:08 – 1:32:29

And how about a judge that during their confirmation swore to uphold precedent, respect precedent, uh, and then departed from decades of precedent. What would you think about that? Would you think that judge was exercising judicial activism as part of the big problem across America.

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:32:30 – 1:32:32

Uh, yes, it sounds like it.

Sen. Paul (KY)1:32:33 – 1:32:47

So when the Supreme Court in Dobbs overturned decades of precedent, uh, to reverse Roe v. Wade, that was an illustration of the kind of judicial activism that is one big problem across America.

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:32:47 – 1:33:03

Well, Senator, um, as a state court judge, and potentially a federal judge, I can't comment other than on on cases that had been decided. So, I think it would be inappropriate for me to

Sen. Paul (KY)1:33:00 – 1:33:01

Well

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:33:04 – 1:33:10

get more get more specific than what I've already answered you on those issues of activism.

Sen. Paul (KY)1:33:09 – 1:33:17

I'm tr- I'm trying to get a sense of what you mean by judicial activism, cuz there of course the Supreme Court did overturn decades of precedent, right?

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:33:17 – 1:33:20

Yeah, yes sir, I I think what

Sen. Paul (KY)1:33:20 – 1:33:22

Let me ask you about another illustration.

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:33:21 – 1:33:22

Uh-huh.

Sen. Paul (KY)1:33:22 – 1:33:41

Um, how about Citizens United? Court there also overturned decades of precedent, um, appeared to have an agenda to allow more unbridled spending by corporations, something that's good for corporations, I suppose. Um, is that judicial activism?

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:33:42 – 1:33:56

Senator, uh, it would be inappropriate for me to speak to specific cases. uh what is or is not judicial activism if you want to know what i think judicial activism is i'll be glad to tell you

Sen. Paul (KY)1:33:56 – 1:34:08

well i i thought you just told me that it was overturning decades of precedent with some kind of personal religious cultural or other agenda right

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:34:08 – 1:34:42

well if you gave me an example of someone coming in for a confirmation hearing and saying i'll go by the law and maybe then they didn't But what I mean when I say judicial activism, and a lot of judges, uh, and possibly most, I don't know, but a lot of judges have really good intentions, but they get si they get outside of their ALR, their area of responsibility. And they try to fix things that the judiciary can't fix, shouldn't fix, it's outside of their lane. So that's what I mean by judicial ax activism. It's

Sen. Paul (KY)1:34:42 – 1:34:58

So, so if if justices took it upon themselves, to make changes to campaign finance. Um, in contradiction actually of what the Congress legislated, that would be kind of a egregious form of judicial activism, wouldn't it?

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:34:58 – 1:35:04

Senator, Senator, I'm not gonna comment on what justices of the United States Supreme Court or Kentucky

Sen. Paul (KY)1:35:04 – 1:35:04

Well,

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:35:04 – 1:35:05

Supreme Court do.

Sen. Paul (KY)1:35:04 – 1:35:36

what what what what what what the reason I'm asking you, is if you sit on the bench at any level, and you only view judicial activism when it's contrary to your own personal religious cultural beliefs, that's a very convenient definition of judicial judicial activism. Um, would you feel comfortable departing from precedent? Because it was in conflict with your personal religious views.

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:35:39 – 1:35:45

I wouldn't, uh, depart from precedent anyway. I'm not allowed to do that. It'd be inappropriate for me to do.

Sen. Paul (KY)1:35:46 – 1:35:58

Uh, it would be inappropriate. Um, would you uphold, if the law required it, would you uphold a state law that provides access to abortion for women?

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:35:59 – 1:36:10

Uh, Senator, I would uphold any state law that is constitutional. I've been going by the rules that I may or may not agree with for twenty four years,

Sen. Paul (KY)1:36:07 – 1:36:11

Oh, so Mister Bello, is your answer yes,

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:36:10 – 1:36:11

so

Sen. Paul (KY)1:36:11 – 1:36:18

you would uphold a state's right to provide a free not a free but a legal abortion for women

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:36:18 – 1:36:27

so so there were i don't think it's appropriate for me to get specific other than to say that i will um go by the law whether i like it or not

Sen. Paul (KY)1:36:28 – 1:36:44

and if i could ask the same question uh very briefly uh to mister pemberton uh as well would you uphold a state law that provides a right of access to abortion for women if it was consistent with state law.

Trevor Pemberton (Witness)1:36:44 – 1:36:50

Yeah, you're asking me to opine on a potential case or controversy that could come before me.

Sen. Paul (KY)1:36:50 – 1:36:52

What I what I'm really asking you,

Trevor Pemberton (Witness)1:36:50 – 1:36:51

I'm sure.

Sen. Paul (KY)1:36:52 – 1:37:01

cuz you're clearly not willing to answer, what I'm really asking you is are you gonna put your own religious or ideological views ahead of following the law?

Trevor Pemberton (Witness)1:37:01 – 1:37:01

Well that that

Sen. Paul (KY)1:37:01 – 1:37:08

And do and do so to the detriment of uh the citizens of this country?

Trevor Pemberton (Witness)1:37:08 – 1:37:23

I apologize for the interruption. Uh. Listen, I that that's a different question as I understood the first question, but absolutely I set aside my religious beliefs and ultimately uphold the law, as it is, and I don't oppose my beliefs uh in a courtroom.

Sen. Paul (KY)1:37:24 – 1:37:25

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Sen. Tillis (NC)1:37:28 – 1:37:44

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, uh congratulations to all of you on your nomination. Um, Mr. West, uh you're the Special, let me see, Director of Special Litigation. Previously you were Solicitor General. Tell me uh what prompted the transition.

Zachary West (Witness)1:37:45 – 1:38:10

Yes, the transition was prompted uh largely from a change in the Attorney General position. We uh I served as Solicitor General under the previous uh Attorney General, and then when the new Attorney General came in, my current uh my current boss or employer uh he asked me if I would be, if I would consider shifting to uh to a different position as Director of Special Litigation and I agreed and have worked there now for the last uh

Sen. Tillis (NC)1:38:12 – 1:38:20

OK. Um, the Eastern District of Oklahoma gets a lot of trials a year. Um, how many civil trials have you litigated?

Zachary West (Witness)1:38:20 – 1:38:24

Uh, uh, one civil trial uh as a litigator, uh, Senator.

Sen. Tillis (NC)1:38:25 – 1:38:27

Um, how many were jury trials?

Zachary West (Witness)1:38:27 – 1:38:40

Uh, the one trial I did was a bench trial, so no jury trials, although I did spend four years clerking. Uh, and two of those years were in district court where we had a number of civil and jury, or civil, criminal jury and non-jury trials that I was,

Sen. Tillis (NC)1:38:41 – 1:38:44

How many trials were uh were you lead counsel?

Zachary West (Witness)1:38:44 – 1:38:48

Uh, none. The one counsel, the one trial I did, I was an associate counsel.

Sen. Tillis (NC)1:38:48 – 1:38:51

How many criminal trials have you litigated?

Zachary West (Witness)1:38:50 – 1:39:07

Uh, I have not litigated any criminal trials, but again I did assist uh with a number of criminal trials in the two years that I clerked on the uh district court. And I also was involved in a number of sentencings uh both for the district court and the tenth circuit judge who I clerked for, uh who took a lot of cases at the district level.

Sen. Tillis (NC)1:39:06 – 1:39:08

Any of those where you were lead prosecutor?

Zachary West (Witness)1:39:08 – 1:39:09

Uh, no, Senator.

Sen. Tillis (NC)1:39:10 – 1:39:17

How many hours uh in the uh course of your career do you estimate you've spent reviewing, responding to, and disputing discovery requests and trials?

Zachary West (Witness)1:39:18 – 1:39:20

A lot. Uh, we have had enough.

Sen. Tillis (NC)1:39:20 – 1:39:20

Give me more.

Zachary West (Witness)1:39:21 – 1:39:22

I'm sorry?

Sen. Tillis (NC)1:39:22 – 1:39:23

Uh, give me details.

Zachary West (Witness)1:39:23 – 1:40:11

Uh, details, yes. I've had several cases where we've been uh deep into discovery. Um, uh, there was a pharmacy benefit manager case involving a PCMA where we did discovery for a lengthy period of time with both experts and a document review and discovery. Um, in our uh definitely litigation leading up to uh the trial that I was in, we had both motions and limine and a significant amount of discovery. I have taken uh around ten depositions, most of those expert. I've defended another five or six depositions, also most of those expert as the lead attorney in those depositions. Um, so I've had pretty pretty extensive experience in discovery, but the nature of my practice is most of it is motions practice, and so it usually gets resolved at summary judgment or motion to dismiss.

Sen. Tillis (NC)1:40:11 – 1:40:33

The uh I I don't I don't know the I'm not an attorney, so I don't typically know the answers to a lot of these questions. Um the uh tell me a little bit about um your experience with uh Indian country. You're gonna get a lot of uh uh Indian. What what what sort of work have you done in the past that that relates to anything that would be unique to uh Indian

Zachary West (Witness)1:40:34 – 1:40:38

Yes, I've litigated several cases or been part of several cases involving Indian

Sen. Tillis (NC)1:40:34 – 1:40:34

land?

Zachary West (Witness)1:40:39 – 1:41:17

um uh the both uh in favor of the tribes and against the tribes. Uh the most recent one that at least comes to my mind is I was at the council of record at the US Supreme Court uh for an amicus brief in support of the uh the Apache tribe and the Apache stronghold case, where they were bringing a Religious Freedom Restoration Act claim, and uh as this representing the state of Oklahoma we argued that that claim had been given short shrift by the ninth circuit. uh, and that the Supreme Court should intervene, uh, and, and because RFRA is such an important law that it should be given a more robust reading in the context of the Apache tribe in that case.

Sen. Tillis (NC)1:41:17 – 1:41:31

OK, the uh, uh, remaining time, I wanna be sensitive to time and not go over, like, give me a, a little bit of background on your experience with federal sentencing guidelines and talk a little bit about how you would use the guidelines and when you would depart from them.

Zachary West (Witness)1:41:32 – 1:42:00

Yes. Uh, so again, I, I clerked for two years at the federal district court where I was working with the judge as he applied the sentencing guidelines. And then at the tenth circuit, again, my judge set by designation uh at the district court to alleviate the sentencing caseload in the district of New Mexico and I had the chance to work with him at times on like forty it was one week we did about forty-five straight sentencings uh and so I was deep into the sentencing guidelines um you asked I'm sorry?

Sen. Tillis (NC)1:41:58 – 1:42:02

When would you depart from them? Said when would you depart from them?

Zachary West (Witness)1:42:02 – 1:42:20

Uh potential uh departures, a number of reasons given for departures uh the the you can potentially use for departures. The one that's coming to my mind is substantial assistance to the government. You can depart downward. Uh, and I think that matters. I like it when, you know, when, when defendants are assisting with the process and not opposing it.

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:42:20 – 1:42:21

Mm-hmm.

Zachary West (Witness)1:42:21 – 1:42:45

So I can't promise that I would depart in that instance, but that is one of the factors, I believe. And then one of the factors I think to go up is, uh, extreme physical harm or something like that, I think is another, is a factor that can play in where you look at the extremity of the offense and say this seems like it's too low of a sentence maybe i should go higher again i can't promise in particular case what i would do but um there are a number of reasons why you can depart up or down

Sen. Tillis (NC)1:42:45 – 1:42:46

ok thank you thank you mr. chair

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:42:46 – 1:43:31

thank you uh before i call on senator whitehouse uh i'd like to enter into the record uh uh supporting mr. west's nomination from three former oklahoma attorney generals john o'connor don cash mike hunter they endorsed mister west and praised his work in the attorney general's office their letter stated quote zach represented the state in complex and consequential litigation and consistently demonstrated exceptional legal ability integrity sound judgment and devotion to rule of law without objection i'll enter that in the record and i've got

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:43:45 – 1:47:59

Thank you, Chairman. Um Let me just first of all welcome Magistrate Reardon. I am a former US Attorney and uh Senior Litigation Counsel's pretty cool designation. So, congratulations on that. Um, to the rest of you I apologize, I'm gonna take my time, uh this morning, to, uh talk about this, committee, because we had, what I consider to be a very, uh disturbing, hearing, uh with the FBI, director. And I think it's, important to, mark, um, what I consider to be the continued degradation of this committee. Um, we first of all confirmed this Kash Patel character back when we did, even though he had asserted his fifth amendment rights and demanded immunity from criminal prosecution. before he would testify honestly before a grand jury. And this committee never even tried to get to the bottom of that. To this day, we still don't know what his grand jury testimony was. And he has dodged and ducked and evaded and lied to this committee about that grand jury episode. And apparently, we're fine with that. He's not the only case. We put Emil Bovey onto the Third Circuit Court of Appeals, while a contempt proceeding was pending in court against him. And staged the timing of his confirmation so we could get him through during a stay in the pending contempt proceeding. We just confirmed Todd Blanch for Attorney General with a federal fraud upon the court investigation pending related to his misconduct. Most people don't know what fraud on the court is because it's such a rare and evil form of legal misbehavior that it almost never comes up. Never in the history of the Department of Justice has any senior official even been accused of fraud upon the court. And we cleared him without clearing up the question of whether or not there was in fact fraud upon the court. These are all never before occasions. An FBI director who pled criminal fifth amendment immunity and we don't get to the bottom of it. A pending contempt proceeding and we slip the guy through before there's an answer to what took place. Ditto the fraud upon the court. An unprecedented situation for a nominee. And then you look at the conduct of the way we allow witnesses to testify. We let witnesses assert false privileges. They have no right to claim and haven't done the work to claim. And the committee doesn't seem to care. We let witnesses lie and dodge. And the committee doesn't seem to care. We let witnesses refuse to answer a single question for the record after a hearing. For a year. And the committee doesn't seem to care. Substantively, We gave away our circuit court blue slips to the executive branch of government. And then complained about having lost the blue slip. We let the executive branch put US attorneys in without confirmation by this committee.

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:48:00 – 1:48:00

Sure.

Sen. Whitehouse (RI)1:48:00 – 1:48:33

And we don't seem to care. And we see witnesses come in with their scripted insult lists. As if that is appropriate behavior. for congressional oversight, and this committee does not seem to care. Well, I care about this committee, and I think that it is making a mockery of itself. And we're gonna need to have a very significant reboot to put this committee back to right. And I hope that comes sooner rather than later.

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:48:35 – 1:48:37

Uh, Senator Feinberg.

Sen. Murkowski (AK)1:48:39 – 1:49:49

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. It's already more here, not the way the committee is being run. I I appreciate uh each of you for being here and for giving us your time today, I actually shouldn't be more upset. and congratulations to each of you on your nomination. As you all could tell, my colleague across the dais is not happy and I guess uh not interested in what we're going to do with making certain we have a constitutionalist on the courts, so we thank you. for your time. Uh, Mister Ballou, let me come to you for a for a moment. You, as I've looked at your background and your resume, it looks like you have a background that is really given to public service. So, uh, you were in the Navy, in the Marines, and then, um, your legal career, which has primarily been centered not in private practice, but also in public service. Is that accurate?

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:49:50 – 1:49:51

Uh, yes, Senator.

Sen. Murkowski (AK)1:49:51 – 1:50:10

And talk with me a little bit about how your experience in the military and then the various roles that you have had on the bench, how that is going to inform your work as as a district judge

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:50:11 – 1:51:29

uh well senator uh the united states marine corps has affected everything in my life uh joined when i was eighteen and i spent seven years there later commissioned in the naval reserve as an intelligence officer uh switched back to the marine corps as an intelligence officer and retired for the marine corps reserve so uh the marine corps has impacted everything i've done uh and i i always give glory to god but the marine corps was the instrument of the good lord uh to get me focused so it turned me into a mission oriented individual and um um uh uh you have to make hard decisions in the in the military particularly in the marine corps as it was my experience so i was accustomed to making hard decisions so when uh later in life uh found myself as an attorney clerk for judge on the sixth circuit and only had a private practice for a couple of years uh i ran for misdemeanor court judge in kentucky which is a district court and a one uh i found out judges have to make hard decisions too it's just in a different lane in a different avenue so

Sen. Murkowski (AK)1:51:28 – 1:51:43

different type of decision yes indeed alright mister coker i wanna come To you, I see that you worked briefly in Tennessee. Looks like you bounced around a little bit before you kind of found a happy home in Texas, right?

Courtney Coker (Witness)1:51:44 – 1:51:47

That's correct, Senator, but I really enjoyed my time in Nashville.

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:51:45 – 1:51:45

Sure.

Sen. Murkowski (AK)1:51:45 – 1:52:02

I Well, everybody enjoys their time in Nashville. That's why everybody wants to move there. Uh, you um led an investigation into the first fentanyl overdose death case in Tennessee. Is that accurate?

Courtney Coker (Witness)1:52:03 – 1:52:06

Uh, yes, Senator, one of the first that uh occurred in Murfreesboro.

Sen. Murkowski (AK)1:52:07 – 1:52:12

And there were seven defendants that were ultimately charged in federal court, correct?

Courtney Coker (Witness)1:52:13 – 1:52:14

That is correct, Senator.

Sen. Murkowski (AK)1:52:14 – 1:53:25

OK, and we thank you for your work on that. Of course, we are hearing and we continue to see the deadly nature of fentanyl, of trank, what it's doing to our kids, uh the devastating consequences that are there on families and on communities and I we talk a lot about trafficking in these substances and yesterday we had Kash Batal before us which obviously my colleague wasn't impressed I thought it was great he talked about how what he's done in Memphis and they've cut the the crime rate in half in a year. But none of my colleagues wanted to talk about uh crime being at lower levels. But we keep trying to get after all of these traffickers. So, I want you to touch on what you believe is an appropriate punishment and sentencing for people that are trafficking these deadly compounds.

Courtney Coker (Witness)1:53:26 – 1:54:46

Mm-hmm. Yes, Senator, well as a judicial nominee, I would approach the federal sentencing guidelines um and look at all of the different enhancements that occur, uh especially in narcotics cases, I know them well, I've done this for eighteen and a half years. Uh there's uh you know you you get certain points for uh being a leader organizer, you get certain points for um having a firearm that the situation danger, more dangerous. You get certain points if you bring those narcotics across the border. You get certain levels if you, if, if, if someone dies as a result. So I would look at all of the guidelines first. And then I would take the thir uh the thirteen um the eighteen USC thirty five fifty three factors, which allow me to look at the nature and circumstances of the offense. Uh, you know, what they did, how dangerous it was. I would also look at the parts of of the thirty five, fifty three factors that looked at the characteristics of the defendant themselves. Who have they worked for? Are they higher levels uh within the cartel, et cetera, and so forth. And then you would combine that together and determine is a sentence greater than the guidelines appropriate or not? And that's and that's how I would approach that as a judicial nominee, Senator.

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:54:46 – 1:54:47

Senator Bolger.

Sen. Murkowski (AK)1:54:47 – 1:54:51

Thank you. My time's expired. Uh, thank you for that. Thank you, Mister Chairman.

Sen. Grassley (IA)1:54:51 – 1:54:52

Senator Blumenthal.

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)1:54:52 – 1:55:07

Thanks, Chairman. Uh, Judge Ballou, thank you for your service in the United States Marine Corps and your description of it here. I have a few factual questions for members of the panel. Uh, Judge Ballou, who won the twenty twenty election?

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:55:08 – 1:55:13

Uh, Senator, uh, via the twelfth amendment, uh, did you say twenty twenty? Uh

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)1:55:14 – 1:55:14

Twenty twenty.

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:55:15 – 1:55:19

Uh, Joe Biden was, um, certified as the as the winner.

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)1:55:21 – 1:55:26

um i'll go down the line if you're gonna answer the same way you can say same answer

Richard Bennett (Witness)1:55:28 – 1:55:31

same answer senator same answer senator

Trevor Pemberton (Witness)1:55:31 – 1:55:32

same answer senator

Richard Bennett (Witness)1:55:33 – 1:55:34

i had the same answer senator

Zachary West (Witness)1:55:35 – 1:55:36

uh same for me senator

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)1:55:38 – 1:55:40

who won the popular vote in the twenty twenty election

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:55:40 – 1:55:50

so um in a twenty twenty election uh president biden was declared the winner via the electoral college as far as

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)1:56:03 – 1:56:05

You have the same answer, Mr. Bennett.

Richard Bennett (Witness)1:56:06 – 1:56:18

Uh, Senator, as a sitting federal magistrate judge echoing Justice Jackson when she was asked about this, I believe that commenting on that is a matter of political controversy, and I'm, it would be inappropriate for me

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)1:56:17 – 1:56:21

Well, it's a factual question. who won the popular vote.

Richard Bennett (Witness)1:56:22 – 1:56:29

Uh, again, senator, I believe it's inappropriate under the canons of judicial ethics, uh, to weigh in on matters of political controversy.

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)1:56:28 – 1:56:33

Well, yeah, I think you well know and the people of America should know that

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:56:33 – 1:56:34

I was there. Uh-huh.

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)1:56:36 – 1:56:45

the judicial ethics can cover political activity, engaging in political activity, like holding an office in a political organization or endorsing a candidate,

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:56:44 – 1:56:45

Yeah, I'm a great thought.

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)1:56:45 – 1:56:46

not answering

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:56:46 – 1:56:47

God bless you.

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)1:56:47 – 1:56:51

simple factual questions uh mister coker

Zachary West (Witness)1:56:52 – 1:56:53

uh same answer

Trevor Pemberton (Witness)1:56:55 – 1:56:56

the same answer as judge bennett

Zachary West (Witness)1:56:58 – 1:57:03

senator i have the same answer uh i would echo judge bennett

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)1:57:04 – 1:57:13

uh let me ask you judge balou was the united states capital attacked on january sixth twenty twenty one

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:57:13 – 1:57:35

uh senator um what uh all i know is what i saw on television and i didn't watch a whole lot of it uh i spent the morning at the bass pro shop in sevierville tennessee uh got to my dad's house in williamsburg kentucky and he had the tv on and we watched very few minutes and cut it off but what us

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)1:57:34 – 1:57:40

now let me ask you the question was the united states capital attack on

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:57:36 – 1:57:37

yes sir

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)1:57:40 – 1:57:43

january sixth twenty twenty one

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:57:41 – 1:57:41

well

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)1:57:43 – 1:57:52

And I, I hope you are not saying that all you know was that snippet of TV video.

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:57:52 – 1:57:52

Well,

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)1:57:52 – 1:57:56

Cuz that would defy belief.

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:57:56 – 1:58:14

Well, sir, my point about that is, uh, I did not watch a lot of the coverage, but I did watch enough to see, it certainly appeared like there were people attacking the capital. When you slinging around barriers, breaking glass, and punching cops, uh i consider that but

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)1:58:14 – 1:58:16

that was an attack on the capitol

Daniel Balou (Witness)1:58:16 – 1:58:19

it appeared like some people were attacking the capitol

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)1:58:19 – 1:58:20

mister bennett

Richard Bennett (Witness)1:58:22 – 1:58:28

senator i saw some of the coverage and the violence the vandalism and the trespass and i condemn those

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)1:58:29 – 1:58:31

so you would agree the capitol was attacked

Richard Bennett (Witness)1:58:31 – 1:58:37

but characterizing it as attack i believe weighs into a matter of a political controversy and it's inappropriate for me to comment on that under the canons

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)1:58:39 – 1:59:03

you know uh Judges on the courts, like Timothy Kelly, Trump appointee, has said, uh, quote, the attack on the Capitol on January sixth, twenty twenty one was a perilous event. Uh, Justice Barrett said, quote, a mob of rioters breached the Capitol on January sixth, twenty twenty one. Do you agree with him?

Richard Bennett (Witness)1:59:05 – 1:59:12

Senator, given the Supreme Court, uh, w- with barrett stated that there was a breach that would follow the supreme court characterization uh

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)1:59:11 – 1:59:14

do do the rest of you agree with judge balou

Zachary West (Witness)1:59:16 – 1:59:18

i agree with uh judge binet senator

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)1:59:18 – 1:59:22

not judge balou judge pemberton

Trevor Pemberton (Witness)1:59:22 – 1:59:24

yeah i agree with judge binet

Kyle Reardon (Witness)1:59:26 – 1:59:28

senator i concur with judge binet's characterization

Zachary West (Witness)1:59:29 – 1:59:40

uh i also agree with judge binet's characterization and i agree with you that um that the supreme court uh the language is important for judges to follow and

Sen. Blumenthal (CT)1:59:40 – 2:01:06

the language is important because the language is a sign of your independence and your willingness to be independent which is what the distinguishing factor is for a judge of the united states district court in the united states of america now judge balou has strayed a little bit from the recita recitation that normally we find articulated by mister bennett avoiding the word attack but you can see that other judges have had the courage to step forward and say that the capital was attacked following this road apparently dictated description hardly indicates the independence that five of you will take and the failure to answer the question of who won the twenty twenty election again i think indicates that you would be unwilling to stand strong against political influence particularly from the white house which has asserted that it wants to dominate the department of justice and our entire justice system right now we're in a very perilous time and i would have expected more from nominees of the united states district corps i will oppose your nominations for that reason thank you chair

Zachary West (Witness)2:01:06 – 2:01:07

sir

Sen. Cruz (TX)2:01:09 – 2:04:26

thank you mr. chairman congratulations to each of the nominees um unfortunately i wasn't able to be here at the beginning of this hearing because i was simultaneously chairing a a mark-up of the senate commerce committee uh so i did not get the opportunity to introduce three of the nominees but i i appreciate chairman grassly entering my introductions into the record. Uh, I didn't want the hearing to conclude without saying a few words about the nominees before us, particularly an an old friend and and and former member of my staff. Zach, it is great to see you uh back before the committee, when Zach West worked for me here in the Senate. Uh, I got to know him firsthand as an enormously talented lawyer, a a principled public service, and a a man of deep faith and integrity. Uh, we tried our very best to make him a permanent Texan. And it turns out I was singularly unpersuasive in that regard. Uh, and Oklahoma won and gained an incredible public service, s- uh, servant and solicitor general. I will also tell you Zach has a really nasty baseline jump shot. Uh, and, and our game got significantly worse when he returned to Oklahoma. Uh, so, so welcome back. Uh. Uh, I wish you had been able to hoop with us yesterday, and as you know, we ended up on the floor instead of playing yesterday, why so I was thoroughly grumpy at at missing that. Uh, Mister Corker, Judge Bennett, uh, both of you, congratulations as well. Texas is fortunate to have two lawyers of your experience and character, uh, willing to step forward and serve on the federal bench. Uh, between the two of you, you have spent decades in courtrooms, you have represented both the government and individual litigants. and devoted much of your career to public service. Uh, both of you did a very impressive job when you met with our federal judicial evaluation committee, a bipartisan committee that Senator Cornyn and I have maintained, uh, for decades. Uh, and you both did a a very fine job when when you interviewed, uh, with me and and subsequently with Senator Cornyn. Uh, I appreciate your fidelity to law, your commitment to follow the law and follow the constitution no matter what, and your commitment not, uh, to impose any policy preferences you may or may not have on any given case, uh, but rather to be faithful and follow the law. Uh, Mister Balou, Mister Pemberton, Mister Reardon, thank you for your willingness to serve, uh, the country, take on tremendous responsibilities that come with with public service. Uh, Mister West, let me begin some questions with you. Uh, you spent years representing Oklahoma in some extraordinarily consequential case cases as Solicitor General. Uh, as you know, I am particularly partial to State Solicitors General, having spent five and a half years as Texas's SG. It is one of the greatest jobs in the entire legal universe. Um, how has serving as the SG of Oklahoma shaped your view of the role of a judge? uh, where your obligation is no longer to advance a client's permit uh position, but rather to impartially determine what the law requires.

Zachary West (Witness)2:04:27 – 2:05:18

Yes, uh, as Solicitor General and in my current role as Director of Special Litigation, you're constantly in court, uh, before judges, and, um, it really impresses upon you, uh, as a litigant, uh, I think a number of things, both of, of, you know, as a litigant, uh, wanting the judges to follow the rule of law and, and thinking, OK, if I'm a judge, I need to be a judge that litigants can trust to follow the rule of law. Uh, and then I think the other is the, the, probably the speed in which uh justice is issued, which is, I know um from litigants' perspective, that, you know, it seems like it, it can times take too long. And I know that was impressed upon me by my, the tenth circuit judge I clerked for, Bobby Baldock. His uh his his driving passion was go, we need to act quickly, like we need to, we we don't sit on decisions, we

Sen. Cruz (TX)2:05:44 – 2:05:58

Uh, Mister Kocher, Uh, Mister Kocher, uh, uh, Judge Bennett. Judge Bennett. Uh, both of you have stood on both sides of the courtroom. Uh, what has your experience, uh, taught you about what makes a good judge? And, Mr. Coker, we'll start with you.

Courtney Coker (Witness)2:06:00 – 2:06:43

Yes, Senator, uh, first and foremost, I think the best judges are judges that are prepared, that, uh, read the pleadings, they take the bench timely, um, they, uh, they understand that, you know, the government's attorney Uh, they have work to do, so uh, back at their offices or or or your um litigant and private attorneys, they've they've got an office to run. So being uh cordial to their time I think is important. I think also being patient, listening, and following the rule of law with fidelity to the constitution. Those to me are the most important things I I look for uh in judges, and if and luck enough to get confirmed, I would try to emulate.

Sen. Cruz (TX)2:06:43 – 2:06:43

Judge Bennett.

Richard Bennett (Witness)2:06:45 – 2:07:20

Senator, I I agree with many of the things Mister Coker said. I believe a good judge is fair, firm and patient, that they're prepared, that they come into that courtroom knowing the law and the facts of the case, and listening to the party's argument, so they can render a fair and impartial decision. I believe a good judge allows younger attorneys to argue uh cases in front of them, so that those attorneys get some experience arguing in court, since many at least many of the civil cases i see do not go to trial i do think that's an uh that's important um and as mr. coker said a judge that upholds the law and upholds the constitution

Courtney Coker (Witness)2:07:22 – 2:07:22

thank you

Sen. Grassley (IA)2:07:23 – 2:08:08

ok uh there aren't any more questions so i wanna thank all the nominees for your testimony today uh you're obviously going to get a lot of written questions not only from the members that aren't here but from those of us who are here and for the benefit of all members of this committee uh questions for the record may be submitted until september twenty third at five pm and it's very important that you try to get those answers back as fast as you can you don't want somebody uh against your nomination just because you didn't uh answer all the questions and answer them fully thank you meeting adjourned

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