U.S. Military Posture and National Security Challenges in the Indo-Pacific Region

Committee come to order. Today we continue our posture hearings with Indopaycom and US Forces Korea. As we meet uh, adversaries are deepening their cooperation. China, Russia, and Iran. North Korea are working together to challenge the United States. Recent reports of China and Russia's support for Iran during Operation Epicure are just the latest example of this cooperation. In this threat environment, President Trump was right to commit a historic one point five trillion dollar defense budget. This investment is essential to rebuild our military and ensure through strength. I look forward to working with President Trump and Secretary Hexeth to get it enacted. In particular, this investment is critical to addressing our most pressing challenge, that is deterring China in the Indo-Pacific. Under Xi Jinping, uh China is pursuing a historic military build-up. It now fills the world's leading hypersonic missile arsenal. The PLA is on track to exceed one thousand nuclear warheads by twenty-thirty. China is the world's preeminent shipbuilding nation, and its growing arsenal of conventional long-range strike, cyber and space capabilities increasingly puts not only the U. S. interest in the region at risk, but also the U. S. homeland. And China is not just building capability, it's demonstrating intent. In a December exercise, the PLA encircled Taiwan and rehearsed operations to isolate and seize the island. To ensure can deter China through strength, we must improve integrated air and missile defense systems including Guam defense system, scale production uh of innovation, low-cost munitions and attritable unmanned systems, replenish our munition stockpiles, especially long-range fires, and rebuild and modernize US shipbuilding. Moreover, we need a strong network of alliances and partnerships. Fortunately, Japan, Korea and the Philippines and Australia are increasing their defense spending and providing critical access and basings that enable our forces to operate throughout the region Taiwan too has made strides in strengthening i- its self-defense capabilities and is already spending about three percent of its GDP on defense and like President Trump the Taiwanese president is also proposing a special budget to bring their defense spending closer to five percent of GDP I encourage their legislative body to pass that as soon as possible. The stakes are clear not only for Taiwan, but also for the United States. A cross-strait invasion would disrupt the global economy and enable China to dominate the Pacific and its key sea lanes uh to uh America's detriment. The time is now to strengthen Taiwan's defenses. I urge the department to move quickly to execute congressionally appropriated funds for the Taiwan security cooperative Uh, the recently announced eleven billion dollar U S arms sales uh is a positive step, but we must make use of every available authority to arm Taiwan. That is consistent with the twenty twenty-six national defense strategy's call to build a strong denial defense along the first island chain. While China is our pacing challenge, North Korea remains a persistent threat and cannot be ignored. North Korea forces are gaining real world combat experience fighting for Vladimir Putin against Ukraine. In return, Putin is giving Kim advanced technologies to greatly enhance his military capabilities. North Korea's advancing cyber, nuclear and missile arsenals threaten both South Korea and the US homeland. Therefore, I'm encouraged that South Korea is demonstrating a clear commitment to taking on significant significantly greater responsibility for its own defense. But that progress

Uh, thank you, Mister Chairman. Uh,

Mm.

clearly the Indo-Pacific and the

Mm.

Korean peninsula are crucial uh to our national security and to peace and stability across the globe. I thank our witnesses for being here and I thank them for their leadership in helping us meet that challenge. And I substantially agree with the chairman's comments. One key to this is us maintaining a significant deterrent capability in the region, a capability that enables us to deter China from making any aggressive moves in the region and also to deter North Korea. Certainly a key part of that is the strength of our defenses, but I think an even And bigger part of that is what the chairman mentioned at the end of his remarks, and that is the system of partners and alliances in the region, uh, that have been so crucial and that have had been moving in a positive direction, um, as they saw the threat from China and wanted our help. We need to maintain those relationships. We need to let those folks know that we are there and they can depend on us, and that the United States is in fact a partner that they c- they can rely on. So I'd be very curious to hear from our witnesses how those relationships are going moving forward. Um certainly a key part of this is also what the chairman referenced, we have to make uh Taiwan as strong as possible to deter China from thinking that they can reunify by force that that is be a cornerstone of our policy. Um yes it is a one China policy but it will never be reunified by force. The absolute key to that is making sure that Taiwan is strong enough to deter China from thinking that they can successfully carry out that operation. Um certainly uh the same as when it comes to deterring North Korea. Um, they threatened South Korea, but they threatened the region, and as the chairman has alluded to, uh, given their involvement in Ukraine, they also are working more and more closely with China, with Russia, with Iran, uh, as part of that, uh, group that is threatening our interests in a bunch of different places. So we need to deter them. Um, I do believe that the bilateral relationship between China and the US is the most important bilateral relationship in the world and will be for decades. So in addition to deterring them, I hope we find ways to have dialogue with them. I am deeply concerned that there is a lack of mill-to-mill conversations. I don't blame us for that. You know, China has been very reluctant to have those conversations. But again, as the chairman mentioned, their massive military buildup, particularly in the nuclear area, demands that we be in a regular dialogue and conversation so that we better understand each other and can find a path forward to main maintain peaceful relations. So I'll be very curious to hear your thoughts about how we can better communicate with China. I led a Kodal to China, the first one that had gone in like five or six years. I don't believe anyone's been back since. I think members of Congress need to get to China. I think uh the State Department certainly needs to get there, and we look forward to the President's um uh conference coming up in, I think it's two, three weeks from now in China. I think that'll be a crucial part of resetting the relationship. The other big problem in all this of course is that the war in Iraq Ron has undermined every single one of those goals that we just laid out. Obviously, we are expending a lot of munitions and a lot of capability there, um and the pie is the pie. Um if you're expending it somewhere, that undermines your ability to have it elsewhere. So do you wanna hear, and this is probably more for the classified session, uh but from uh both uh Admiral Papara and General Brunson, how is this impacting our ability to maintain our deterrent capability in the region? And then an even bigger problem to my mind is this has impacted our partnerships and alliances. We stumbled into this war, have no idea how to get out of it. Didn't have any idea how to get out of it when it started. We have even less of an idea today. Uh, the the chaotic, you know, plans that the president has been laying out in the last week, it's all over. They've agreed to everything. They've agreed to nothing. We're not talking. I will not extend the ceasefire. I will extend the ceasefire. I'm extending it forever. The message that sends to the world is that we are not a reliable partner. We don't know what we're doing, and then the worst part of it is the absolute contempt that the president has shown for the entire world, but certainly for Asia. He he points out, look, it's not our problem, it's their problem, they're more dependent upon golf, golf oil than we are. And that's true. It is true. The rest of the world is getting hit economically a lot harder by our stupid war of choice in the Middle East than we are. That's not something to brag about if you want to try to build partnerships and alliances, at a minimum. It's something to say, hey, sorry, how can we help? Right? Is there something we can do to mitigate these damages? So the the war in the Middle East is causing enormous problems, not just there, but in the Indo-Pacific as well. And it's something we're gonna have to work really hard to try and fix as we go forward. Uh, with that, I look forward to the, uh, testimony from the witnesses and the questions. And I thank the chairman for holding the hearing and I yield back.

I thank the ranking member. Uh, just as a situational awareness, uh, we're expecting votes at approximately eleven twenty. When votes are called we will briefly recess before reconvening for open session, uh we'll come back, excuse me, take some more questions, then about twelve fifty we will recess or adjourn the um open session and one o'clock convene in the classified session. Uh but we'll get as many uh members and their questions in before that time as as possible. Uh now I'd like to

Chairman Rogers, Chairman Rogers, Ranking Member Smith, Ranking Member Smith, and distinguished members of the committee. and Distinguished Members of the Committee. Thank you for the opportunity to be here today to discuss how the Department of War is preserving a favorable balance of power in the Indo-Pacific and implementing President Trump's common sense peace through strength agenda in this vital region. It is a distinct honor to speak with you alongside Admiral Paparo and General Brunson. Let me begin by reaffirming our clear mission as laid out in the two thousand twenty-six National Defense Strategy. The Department of War will deter China through strength, not confrontation, and set the conditions for a favorable balance of power in the Indo-Pacific, in which no country, including China, can become a regional hegemon. This is not for the purpose of dominating or humiliating China. Rather, it is to defend our vital national interests in the Indo-Pacific and ensure that neither China, nor anyone else, can dominate. us or our a- allies. We are clear-eyed about China's unprecedented military build-up and it is our responsibility at the Department of War to ensure that the President is always negotiating from a position of unquestionable mil- military strength to sustain peace in the Indo-Pacific. This requires, as the NDS clearly states, erecting a strong denial of defense in the Indo-Pacific with a focus on the We will accelerate efforts to strengthen U. S. force posture across the theater, to increase the joint forces' lethality and optionality, to deny aggression and if necessary, prevail. This means ensuring we have combat credible military forces postured forward, resilient basing and logistics networks, and advanced capabilities where we need them. The U. S. military cannot and should not alone sustain a favorable balance of power, which is fundamentally in our regional allies and partners' interests. The department has called upon our allies and partners to expand their contributions to our collective defense and to share the burden of restoring and sustaining deterrence in the Indo-Pacific. We will work closely with them to bolster their readiness, enhance our interoperability, and revitalize our collective industrial basis. And we will count on the most wealthy and capable among them to meet the global standard of three point five percent, uh, defense spending and to take greater responsibility for their self-defense. The secretary has made clear that America first does not mean America only or America alone. It means an America supported by and standing with a network of highly capable armed forces, ready to defend our shared interests. This is what the department and the team seated here before you today is delivering, with the

Thank you, Mr. Ngo. Admiral Favaro, you're up.

Good morning, uh, Chairman, Ranking Member, and members of the committee. Thanks very much for the opportunity to speak with you today. I'll just call attention very briefly to Sergeant Major Cook and the other uh, a line behind me. Uh, his charge is the morale of the fighting force. That combination of physical, mental, and spiritual readiness that is at the heart of the joint force. And the enlisted and the non-commissioned officers are the heart, body, and soul of the joint force. I'd like to also acknowledge all of the tireless professionals arrayed behind us uh that helped make today possible for us all. The Indo-Pacific is indeed the defining strategic theater in the twenty-first century. And it's where the four lines of effort of the national defense strategy converge, safeguarding the US homeland, deterring China, deepening burden sharing with our allies and our partners, and supercharging the defense industrial base. Indo-Pakom's strategy is clear, deter China from achieving its objectives through military aggression, as we watch for the strategic cooperation uh among uh, the the Axis powers, not Axis powers, among the the powers uh China, Russia, North Korea, Iran, and terror groups. Deterrence is our highest duty. We deter with dynamic combat power, uh conducting operations every day across all domains. Our allies and partners increase our combat capability and capacity. They help expand the maneuver space, they extend our operational reach, and they strengthen deterrence. Yesterday we began the largest Balacatan exercise ever, shoulder to shoulder in Tagalog. This exercise demonstrates a significant leap in allied firepower, integrating US land-based Tomahawks with Philippine Brahmos missiles and Japanese anti-ship missiles. Our alliances are rapidly fielding advanced capability. We're adapting to the changing character of warfare by driving towards information and decision superiority. We're accelerating our decision making through our AI enhanced headquarters, strengthening our posture, improving integrated air and missile defenses, hardening key infrastructure, and increasing munitions throughput. The Congress and the department have provided the resources, now industry must deliver. And with your continued support, we'll preserve peace through strength, and we will defend a free and open Indo-Pacific. Thank you very much.

Thank you, Admiral. Uh, General Brunson, you're recognized.

Chairman Rogers, Ranking Member Smith, and distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to speak today alongside Admiral Poporo and ASW No regarding the security environment of the Republic of Korea and Northeast Asia. I extend my gratitude first to my staff, those arrayed behind me, who've helped me to get here today, and they represent the soldiers, the sailors, the Airmen, the Marine, the Guardians, and all those who wish us well from Korea. I especially want to thank the Korean people for their continued partnership, hospitality, and commitment to our alliance. The Korean peninsula is key strategic terrain, vital to defending the American homeland and advancing American interest in the region. Our forces in Korea are modernizing to address rapidly evolving strategic dilemmas. That's why my focus remains strictly on capabilities over numbers. While our presence is a baseline, it's imperative that we maintain focus on the precise capabilities that must be resident on the peninsula. To truly understand this drift, this shift rather, from capacity to capability, I encourage the committee to come, come to Korea, observe the tri-command firsthand. And should you visit us, you will see the readiness exemplified by our service members, civil servants, allies, and inter-agency partners who defend not only this homeland, but also Korea. Across the peninsula, our war fighters build readiness. And some recent examples include eighth U S Army and their training program, which enabled our Korea rotational force to exceed ninety percent in most categories of readiness. And the continued integration of our seventh Air Force, Marine Corps Forces Korea, Naval Forces Korea, Special Operations Command Korea and Space Force Korea, components into U S Indopaycom exercises demonstrate the potential to project power from Korea in support of deterrence across the greater Indo-Pacific. One thing I would like to mention as I as I go forward is our continued emphasis on things like a regional sustainment hub because of the importance of of sustainment to the region. I would also mention the fact that as we continue to work across the information domain, we not only communicate the centrality of the region to American interest, but also actively maneuver to neutralize misinformation and disinformation. We'll make all the changes necessary in cyber, EW and space to develop a competitive advantage which can be utilized from the peninsula. The Tri-Command, United Nations command, Combined Forces command, and US Forces Korea stand ready and capable to support a favorable balance of power across the region. That that balance deters aggression and supports a free and open Indo-Pacific. Our presence in the region is a driving force that has evolved our alliances over decades from dependencies to true partnerships. And while our cooperation and commitment in the region has maintained the armistice and deterred large-scale con large-scale conflict, our forces must remain vigilant. Together with the department, our inter-agency teams, the United States Congress, and our multinational allies and partners, we will continue to demonstrate American strength in the region so that a favorable peace prevails. Under one flag, we go together, fight tonight, I look forward to your questions.

I thank the witnesses and uh recognize myself for question. Uh, I'd like to start with uh both Admiral Paparo and General Brunson. Would you each take a couple of minutes and and share with us how you see our partners in the Indo-Pacific supporting US security interest in the region. Start with you, Admiral.

Morning, Chairman. Uh, first, yeah, indispensable to our success in the theater and deterring conflict and um most supportive just in the expansion of our exercise programs, the expansion of uh our more creative solutions on access, spacing and overflight. An example is Balacatan, presently right now. It's the premier uh exercise for the mutual defense of the Philippines. It means shoulder to shoulder. Japan is participating for the very first time uh in Balacatan, actively participating in an exercise that exercises the self-defense of the Philippines. And so across the theater, General.

Uh, thank you, Chairman. Uh, I would say much the same, but what I would add to that is their continued modernization of their forces, allow us um to do other things. And and as you know with OPCON transfer, what we're looking at is maybe taking a look westward while also providing critical but more limited support to the North Korea mission. Uh and I think we're able to do that as these forces continue to modernize and act in partnership with other nations within the region to participate uh in exercises. RIMPAC, which is coming

Great, thank you. Mr. Noh,

Thank you.

Uh, Mister Chairman, first of all, thank you for your personal support on these important Taiwan security

Mm. Mm.

assistance initiatives including TSC I which you just mentioned. Um, the department has multiple tools at our disposal, uh, to provide security assistance to Taiwan. Uh, FMS, PDA, TSCI were actively working to present options to our leadership, including uh, for Secretary Hexeth and the president, uh, on uh, different ways to provide security assistance, uh, to Taiwan and will continue to do so.

OK. General Brunson, the United States and South Korea uh agreed to conditions related capabilities um security environment and must be met but that it must be met before wartime operational control can be uh transferred to South Korea. How's that going?

Chairman, I'll give you um more detail in closed based on some of the critical capabilities that need to be discussed. But I would say that uh right now we've delivered to OSW a road map, which will get us there not later than second quarter of FYI. Uh and we'll continue to pursue that. Um as you know, Chairman, we have the Korea integrated defense dialogue that's upcoming, uh where a great many of these conditions will be discussed. We've also got the uh military consultative meeting and the security consultative meeting which are also coming up to be held here in uh DC in, early in the fall. Uh but I think that uh right now where we stand based on the continued investments by the Republic of Korea in their defense really an uplift of about eight point five five percent in their defense spending over the next three FY. Uh, I think that we're in a good position, but there's still more work to be done. And as you said, we will continue to press for the conditions-based OPCON transfer and ensure that all the conditions are met.

A- and that's the point I hope that we keep in the fore of our mind, is that until those conditions are met, we do not need to be premature in transferring an operational control. With that, I yield to my friend, the ranking member.

Thank you, Ashley. the chairman hit on the first question I was gonna ask, so just follow up a little bit about sort of South Korean capability, um, to meet the threat from North Korea, if you could give a few more details about, and I think you covered it fairly well, but time-line-wise, you know, is there a point you see where South Korea get there? We talked a little bit about some of the logistical challenges, I mean, aside from just having the forces and the munitions, being able to organize, um, how do you assess South Korea's capability and how critical it is that we continue to partner?

Chairman of of of Ranking Member Smith, thank you for the question. Uh, one of the things that I look at is when you look at the ten largest armies in the world, South Korea is one of those, and they're uh sitting in fifth right now. Um, so mass has a quality all its own. So that would be reason number one as a as an infantry officer that I would say it's important that we continue to partner. Uh, I also think that geography plays into this as well, the centrality of Korea in the region, its ability to impose costs both in the West Sea and the East Sea. Uh when I look at their forces, what I'm most pleased with is the continued growth of their defense industry industry and the potential that exists for them to accelerate so that they can secure the capabilities that are absolutely necessary for OPCON transfer. As a partner, um I would consider them, and maybe it's because of where I live, the preeminent partner in the region, uh because I get to work and see them every day. So very happy with the relationship that we have, as you know we just came out our freedom shield exercise, which is a command post exercise largely, but there were fifty individual events where bilateral training occurred. Uh, in the future, we want to continue to wrap the UN command into this exercise, that we might have an a multilateral aperture to operate from as well. But as a partner, very pleased with them, sir.

Yeah, and you don't see a point anytime soon when the splitting and us leaving would make sense.

No, sir, I would not uh offer that.

Thank you. And Admiral Papar, as I mentioned in my opening statements, the impact of the war in the Middle East has been felt much more profoundly in Asia than it has here. It's not widely reported. As you talk with your partners, what sort of conversations do we have with them about how to mitigate the impacts? I mean, there are significant fuel fertilizer shortages. Is that impacting the flexibility, the ability of these nations, um, to continue to to work with us or more crucially to continue to keep their distance from China?

Ranking member, um we've taken some entrepreneurial approaches to uh some of the force elements that have been allocated to the US Central Command uh area responsibility, n notably Balakotan is a example and we'll have some other uh elements where we drive some more creativity in the process so that we can maintain the exercise objectives and uh our allies and partners have made some uh uh imp- important shifts

But for now you say it hasn't yet impacted like some of the joint operations you're talking about.

Mm.

I mean, I would think

Yeah, we've uh in some cases we've uh we've used units that were uh, you know, we have deployed a few units uh to substitute uh for capability that would be in the AO in the area of responsibility. We've not yet had to make hard fuel choices that have affected our ability to make uh do exercises, but it'll be an issue concern moving forward.

Thank you. And b- and

Uh, Ranking Member Smith, as you stated in your opening statement, uh, uh, the Department of War, uh, supports engagements with China. Um, I, I was personally present along with Admiral Poparo when Secretary Hexheth met with Admiral, Admiral Dong Jun,

Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman. You're back.

Gentlemen from Virginia, Mr. uh Whitman is recognized.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'd like to join our uh thank our witnesses for joining us today. Admiral Poparo, to begin with you. You'd heard a little bit about the issues we're dealing with, that is the tyranny of distance there, which you have to deal with every day in the Indo-Pakon. And then weapons magazine depth, especially uh long-range precision strike weapons like Tomahawk, Prism, JASM, Lorasm, you name it, we need those weapons. The challenge is is we've consumed those weapons in other ways, and as weapons magazines get precariously low, uh we need capacity and capability to be able to uh reconstitute those weapons magazines. And you've said this, you've said current production timelines are mis- aligned with operational expenditures and threats we face today in today's global security environment essentially saying we're not building enough,

Mm-hmm.

fast enough. Secretary Feinberg would agree with you and has done a lot of things there. Um looking too at what's happening right now, it's not just those exquisite weapons, but it's also, uh, tradables and expendables. It's also being able to take technology that's there, things like the Lucas drone that we've been able to, to use in ways, uh, using technology that's already out there from from believe it or not places like Iran, and and getting that capability there. To be able to to do that quickly, to be able to produce that mass that does have an impact is going to be key going forward. So I just wanted to get get from you uh how are you working not only on the exquisite weapons magazine depth but also building that mass, that attributable and expendable mass quickly so that the Chinese look at it and go, you know,

Congressman, good morning. Congressman, good morning. Uh, Uh, you get to exactly the crux of the changing character of warfare. you get to exactly the crux of the changing character of warfare. Uh, on arrival at US Indo-Pacific command, uh, uh, on arrival at US Indo-Pacific command, uh, uh, I, you know, I, uh, uh, I, you know, I, uh, inadvertently coined the phrase hellscape as an operation. It wasn't quite so inadvertent, but uh uh and and this is something that I strongly believe. I think we're s- we see it uh every single day in Ukraine, in this changing character warfare, the commoditization of cheap, distributed, precision kill. And uh this is a technology that we embrace or we lose.

Right.

And uh I think this is absolutely critical. Especially in a denial defense, where uh we need not fight for air or maritime superiority of a space, we need only deny it to an adversary who wishes to change the status quo with assault warfare. Um, learning the lessons of Ukraine, uh, learning the lessons here uh in uh in the operation in the Middle East are critically important. And so uh, Lukas is showing promise, Mirobs is showing promise. the budget uh has has a historic investment in unmanned and autonomous capabilities. And the Indo-Pacific in my view is space one where uh is you know it's it's it's the first theater where we must have the concepts in order to do it. There is a concept as you well know, uh it is achievable uh rapidly on the timelines that we have discussed uh and accelerating Also includes uh low-cost hypersonics as well, and the department is making investments in low-cost hy- hypersonics and low-cost cruise missiles. Because what we're also seeing is is that ninety percent of the capability frequently results in ten percent of the actual cost. And while we need uh exquisite to take down exquisite things,

Mm-hmm.

we need cheap to take out uh less exquisite things. And the the department is making those investments, including uh in the uh def- in the traditional defense industrial base, and as discussed, we must perform. Forgive me for the overly long answer.

No, listen, great, great uh great uh perspective there. Let me ask this too, in in the theater, it's not just having that that offensive capability, but it's also about logistics, about support, about um uh the ability to to react and inter-operate within that theater. And we know the Marine Corps has LSM coming on board to be able to move uh Marines and equipment around. But give me your perspective too, cuz Army Watercraft through the years have played a very, very important part of that. Tell me, how do we need Army Watercraft in that, in your theater, and what do we need to do to make sure we're putting as much focus there as we are with LSM?

Yeah, Congressman, um, ships are the world's most effective means to move mass material and people over long distances. And if you're not doing sustainment, you ain't fighting.

Yeah.

Uh, you know, maybe the most important joint function and arguably the joint function that won the second over the vast, uh, over the vast spaces of the Indo-Pacific.

Gentlemen's time's expired. Here's our recognized gentleman from Connecticut, Mister Courtney.

Thank you, uh, Mister Chairman. Uh, Admiral Paparo, uh, last year the AUKUS security agreement went through an intensive review by the Department of Defense which last October concluded that it was in America's national security interest to maintain its commitment to that program. When you testified last year before the committee, you forcefully stated that AUKUS um provides a critical strategic benefit for all three countries having forward rotation of summaries in terms of both presence and readiness. Having read the AUKUS report from cover to cover, um, I am pretty clear, it was pretty clear to me, um, that your well-informed opinion, uh, had a decisive impact on the final verdict of the AUKUS review. So here we are a year later. Uh, maybe you could just sort of talk about what you see happening in terms of, you know, um, you know, joint, uh, operations, joint crewing, um,

Yeah. Morning, sir. Um, well one is that, uh, HMAS Sterling is on track for the rotational force, uh, that will arrive here in, uh, Perth, um, you know, in a little over a year. And I, uh, I stated yesterday too is that between the pier, the shore power, the facilities with a tender and a marine security company, we could be ready today to operate a submarine squadron, a rotational submarine squad squadron out of Um the Australian submariners performing well on the ships, they're performing well uh in the schools, uh extremely well and um in every regard in pillar pillar one we're on track. We're making strides in pillar two among these nontraditional systems here. And uh to have a rotational base in the Indian Ocean uh is is absolutely essential. My view is is that the AUKUS review didn't reflect my

Um, I mean there's no question having your sort of reality-based presence and and your opinion definitely I think carried a lot of weight. So, um, you know in the last month or so, I think um our country and our and like certainly the Congress has sort of rediscovered the importance of minesweepers. Uh, I and I guess the what I would ask you is that, in your uh area of command, I mean is there also a need for mine sweepers to be sort of part of a a fleet?

Yes sir, we we have uh we have three mine sweepers assigned, we have MH sixty mine sweeping helicopters assigned in the Indo-Pacific AOR, uh uh everybody is investing in mines, mines is a sea denial capability, and uh at points in a conflict you're gonna have to open up what's called cue routes to restore commerce. And so mine sweeping is a critical naval capability that we've got to invest in, and so do our allies and partners.

Thank you. And and um, you know, again, looking at our fleet as it stands today, again, we we've got some Avenger classes, just a couple left, and then LCS um with the modules there. Um, you know, we have a pretty big budget that we're gonna be taking up. Auxiliary ships are finally getting sort of uh their their day in, you know, in the sunshine and and um Uh, but it, I think it's something that, uh, you know, we need to sort of examine just how well LCS's are performing that function and whether or not really we need we the the Navy needs to sort of maybe look at, um, some other sort of uh options.

And it's also, I mean, mind-sweeping is the ideal mission set for autonomous systems, uh, also. And so as we think about, uh, standoff mother ships that deploy autonomous systems to clear cube routes, uh, these are all areas for innovation. But my

Right. Thank you. I yield back.

A gentleman from Georgia, Mister Scotch, recognized.

Thank you, Chairman, gentlemen, all for being here today. Uh, for years I'm one of those that have believed that China would choose economic influence over direct military conflict with regard to Taiwan. Uh, as we've seen in the recent news, Taiwan's opposition leader met with Chinese President Z, resulting in uh flights being restored, uh reopening tourism channels, easing of agricultural trade, and widening cultural access between the two nations. Um, Admiral Paparo, um, in November of twenty twenty three, uh, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, General C. Q. Brown, who I have tremendous respect for, stated that uh, Xi Jinping

No.

may seek to achieve objectives against Taiwan without using force,

Yes, sir.

Uh in your judgment, what are the primary non-kinetic pathways China could use to achieve control over Taiwan, short of an invasion?

So these fir first of all, united front operation, information operations, uh to sway public opinion, uh to distort the truth, uh to separate uh uh citizens from their government, uh these are efforts, it's an ongoing continuous effort, uh not just in Taiwan but all throughout. throughout the asia pacific in fact all throughout the world uh on the record for that certain lawfare actions a quarantine uh uh that uh sets new customs entities uh backed up by law enforcement type forces like maritime security administration china coast guard these are all contingencies that we planned very deeply uh and then um up that ladder uh into the uh into the low kinetic small island seizures and uh other demonstrations from quarantine to near blockade to blockade are all other means by which uh they could potentially coerce with force or near force uh a uh their objectives and that is the preferred route for the People's Republic of China.

A a blockade on against the islands on the mainland side of the straits, there's there's nothing anybody can do about that short of all that war.

Uh.

Is that a fair statement?

gray zone must be met with gray zone, direct and indirect,

I agree.

and we ignore that missionary at our peril.

And Well, you've you've I'm gonna ask my next question, which I think you've just answered. Uh, in your judgment, is the United States over-focused on invasion scenarios at the expense of those alternative approaches?

Well, I don't think we're over-focused because we must always be planning for the worst-case scenario. But, uh, I will tell you that, um, we need all of government's solutions to account for all of government revolutions from the People's Republic of China.

I I think in many areas we've focused too much on the kinetic and not enough on the gray. I think we've done that in Africa and we've lost Africa to the to the Russians and the Chinese because of not paying attention to social media and the other things, the disinformation campaigns that they've done. Uh, General Brunson, um, I did notice in your, not in your written bio, but your your dad was a S- Sergeant Major if I'm not I bet I bet you weren't late for dinner, were you?

Oh, not not at all, and and I appreciate you saying that, I know he and my mother are watching this right now.

Well, it um, I'm I'm I'm sure she is an exceptional lady to uh to be able to keep a Sergeant Major in line, she would have to be, but uh congratulations on uh your success, uh uh as a four star I have tremendous respect for all of you who achieved that rank, and I mean that Admiral to you as well, um you too, uh Secretary, um Before I get to the question, I want to say this, I think the firing of of General George was an extreme disservice to the United States Army. And I think it was reckless, uh, conduct, and, uh, I I don't I don't think many of us s- uh, let me say it this way, some of us are not through asking the questions about that. I don't I don't expect any of you any of you to answer. But, um, how are China and Russia's relationship affecting the stability on the peninsula? And what changes have you seen since you

Congressman, thank you for the question. Um, what I would say is if if you would imagine an Oreo and you say China's the cookie part, and Russia's the other cookie part, and DPRK's in the middle. So now you've got this salient that's been created of cooperation amongst, you know, these authoritarian colluders. That's changed the region significantly. Uh, it's changed it by way of the way that North Korea gets materiel that they then use to pressure South Korea. I think it changes the way that they develop weapon systems because it's coming either from east of them or west of them. The connectivity across those three nations is something that we can't belie. We've gotta pay attention to this because it changes the way that North Korea acts.

Gentlemen's time's expired, sure, now I recognize the gentleman from California, Mister Gierimendi.

Uh, thank you, Mister Chairman. Uh, Admiral Paparo, in your final comment, uh to mister whittany about the uh pacific uh you entered the discussion about resupply about how we can maintain the position of the united states and you also brought up world war two where it was perhaps one of the most critical issues in the pacific it's a very very big ocean uh the us navy is not going to be able even with the extraordinary increase in its budget to provide the necessary very support vessels. And we're developing uh under the leadership of uh, Mister Trent Kelly, uh a proposal uh that is now maturing with the administration on a maritime strategy, commercial maritime, that could be the answer to the support that would be necessary in the Pacific. Uh I don't know that uh I expect you to comment on it uh extensively other than to uh highlight the potential problems, an extended uh conflict in the Pacific. We simply cannot sustain that. Uh the issue of tankers was raised uh in conjunction with the fuel situation, but that fuel's gotta go on something, and that would be a tanker. We don't have them. We could uh using the uh advanced opportunities that are presented in the uh Ships Act, develop a domestic maritime tanker fleet that could be available as it was in the early days of World War Two uh to support the military. Uh we'll be moving that along later today and in the days ahead but I would like you to comment on um the potential support that could come from an expanded maritime, commercial maritime fleet if we were able to develop it in the United States. Right now we don't, but we could.

Congressman Garamendi. We already have extensive agreements in the volunteer tanker uh program, uh with maritime shippers, and so it's a proven concept, and as you say, I think it's the it's the closest, strongest capability that we're going to get in order to uh close the tyranny of distance and the physics of energy mass and people across eight thousand miles of the Pacific I associate myself very strongly with your statement, and I'm supportive of the initiative.

Uh thank you very much. Uh it would be useful uh as we proceed with the uh ships act to have some detail about what is needed as you see it it's a shifting um mosaic out there uh and the other thing i do wanna get into is the uh essential role of our allies you speak, both of you have uh uh spoke to that issue uh our allies um are working closely with both of you uh on the military side Uh the political side is not so good. Uh there are significant uh problems that have been developed, tariffs for one and other uh and Joe talked to the issue of uh AUKUS. Uh could you wade into something that is important but not your principal subject matter. How is it going on the political side? Admiral?

Sir, I think um our Pacific allies have been um extremely circumspect, stoical, moving forward, treasuring the relationship and pragmatically working together uh towards solutions. And uh uh though our mill-to-mill relationships are always on an upward trajectory and uh are uh you know are a counterweight to the peaks and valleys of political discourse, um I've credited our Indo-Pacific allies on their uh stoicism and their problems.

Thank you. General.

Sir, I I would say that uh by virtue of process alone and the procedures that we follow, they're intricately wound together, the two. I won't speak to the politics, but when you look at things like the security consultative meeting, that goes to the secretariat level where those meetings will take place, uh which involve us. Uh, recent uh appointment of an ambassador um to the Republic of Korea also helps. So the military allows us

Gentlemen, yields back, Chairman, I recognize the gentleman from Tennessee, Doctor Dejah Lay.

Thank you, Chairman, and I appreciate all of our witnesses for being here today. Um, Admiral Paparo, I would like to start with you, uh, based on the three incredibly complex, uh, successors,

Congressman, Congressman, I I think that the operational success achieved by the joint force I I think that the operational success achieved by the joint force um has um demonstrated capability and has enhanced the deterrence um has um demonstrated capability and has enhanced the deterrence of the United States of America, and I think it's made the People's Republic of China more cautious, moving forward through the demonstration of capability and will.

Thank you. And I I think you and I shared a common belief in the importance of space. You've mentioned it in your opening statement, and I couldn't agree more, but we all know that uh space and information superiority will be the key to winning the wars of the future. How can uh this committee work to ensure we have space dominance in light of our adversary's generation North Korea? developing space and counter space capabilities.

Congressman, cyber and space counter space is the very first battle uh of any conflict, and it will be in the twenty first century. That is, that that underpins the ability of a military to see, understand, decide, and act. And in fact, for China we've seen the proliferation of their constellation over the last six years go from two hundred and fifty to over eleven hundred um, military military satellites, uh, including counter space capabilities. So, um, this is the number one priority for United States Indo-Pacific command is counter C five ISRT counter intelligence surveillance reconnaissance and targeting. And the space portfolio is the number one, uh, funding priority that's that's submitted in our twelve X X thirteen X X reports. And so I'm very grateful for the committee's work on that.

Thank you. General Brunson, as uh we're all aware, North Korea is continuing to develop and test new weapon systems, including the unveiling of a new submarine platform, uh escalating activity around their nuclear development sites and of course Sunday's ballistic missile test. Uh how have these test developments impacted your command?

Hey Congressman, um one of the ways that it's impacted the command is we're continuing to try to shore up our ability to see, sense and understand uh as these uh launches happen. Uh, over the, past year or really since January of twenty twenty five there have been sixty one total launches thirty seven of those have been um cruise missiles and I believe twenty three have been uh other ballistic forms that they've uh they've shot um and I would suffice it to say that what we're also trying to do is ensure that the tri lateral cooperation in terms of integrated air and missile defense and ballistic missile defense is continuing to stay sharp and so what we really want to try to do in the future uh you know you heard Admiral Poparo mention C five ISRT. Uh that's both blue and green, uh as we look at the red. And so what we wanna do is try to ensure that these pathways that connect us together with our allies in the region are absolutely sound in the event that they become degraded over time.

Yeah, how concerned are you about the increased cooperation between North Korea, Russia and China? We talk about the actions of evil, Iran seemed to be part of that, no one seemed to be rushing uh uh too fast in their defense but uh uh How has that also impacted your calculations?

It's impacted because it changes the capabilities that are resident within the primary adversary for for US forces Korea today and that's deterring DPRK uh in close I look forward to letting you know some of the things that we've discovered recently that give us great alarm in terms of the um the sharing of TTP across that that salient that I spoke about earlier um poor analogy with the Oreo

Thank you, Thank you, Chairman Rogers and Ranking Member Smith, Chairman Rogers and Ranking Member Smith, and thank you to our witnesses for being here today in your continued service. and thank you to our witnesses for being here today in your continued service I represent Joint Base Lewis-McChord, where forces like First Corps and the multi-domain task force are directly tied to the Indo-Pacific. The twenty twenty six national defense strategy emphasizes deterrence by denial, but deterrence only works if it's credible in the near term, not just in future force design. So I want to focus my questions on whether we are positioned today to meet that standard. Admiral Papara, I'm gonna move over so I can make eye contact with you. Um, representing JBLM, we're first corps in the multi-domain task force so directly tied to the Indo-Pacific mission. At an unclassified level, Do you believe that US forces today post or postured to maintain credible deterrence against China in the near term?

I do, I do believe that we're postured correctly and um but a very important element of that, and this is particular with regard to JBLM among other locations in the western United States is the mobility of forces uh to move. That's amazing. And that mobility is underpinned by uh air and maritime capability that can rapidly move forces.

All right, let me even answer my follow-up. Um, the top one or two capability areas where additional progress is most needed now.

Well, you know, I've I've talked about the changing character warfare and so munitions is the, you know, uh, counter C five ISR and munitions is critically important, uh, but sustainment and sustainment includes the ability to deploy, the ability to phase, that's a key area for uh for improvement. And that is maritime vessels including army watercraft, that's uh that is air cargo aircraft, that's tanker aircraft, really across the whole spectrum.

Thank you, sir. Now moving on to General Brunson. Roughly twenty-eight thousand five hundred US service members are stationed in the Republic of Korea, with many serving two to three year tours in support of one of our most visible forward deterrence missions, including personnel who support operations tied to the DMZ. Given your operational experience and leadership on the Korean peninsula, how do you assess the readiness of the combined US ROK force today to deter aggression from North Korea?

Congresswoman Strickland, thank you for the question. Um, I would assess us having just exercised this formation in February as being prepared, uh, to deter.

Thank you. Uh, Mister No, deterrence is not only about military capability but also about the strength and alignment of our alliances, so I'd like to turn to you on this point. In the twenty twenty six national defense strategy, it calls for stronger contributions from allies and partners in the Indo-Pacific. To ensure our alliances remain strong and aligned, what clear expectations has the Department of Defense communicated to our allies and partners regarding the capabilities, investments, or contributions needed to strengthen collective deterrence? And how's the department assessing whether those efforts are producing the intended deterrent effect?

Uh, Congresswoman, thank you for your question. As I said uh in my opening statement, um, reestablishing deterrence uh in the Indo-Pacific is not uh a task that America uh can or ought to do on its own. So the role of our allies and partners is absolutely essential uh and critical. Uh, we have been building strong relationships and I can, I'd be happy to go into each and every one of them, but uh with allies and partners, Uh, we have been asking uh wealthy and capable allies uh to step up uh including with spending. Uh, President Trump made a historic achievement last year at the at the NATO Hague summit uh in getting NATO countries to increase their defense core defense spending to three point five percent of their GDP. Um, that is the global standard as the NSS and the NDS uh both clearly lay out. Uh, we are asking our allies and partners to to do that to to increase spending and to meet the global standard uh and we're seeing progress uh republic of korea couple months ago became the

mmm

first non-nato ally to commit to increasing spending to three point five percent of their g d p um and as the chairman

mmm

mentioned um taiwan is also taking significant steps to increase uh its spending uh so we're uh seeing progress across the board and we'll continue to push our allies and partners

Um where is Japan? As far as their spending?

Uh, Japan um is in the process of revising uh its three national security defense strategy documents. Uh we're in we're in constant communication with uh our Japanese uh counterparts, uh allies uh uh on this issue and we look forward to seeing uh progress on this front front.

General, you're from Washington, his time has expired, chair, now recognized, general from Mississippi, Mister Kelly.

General Brunson, also.

I I find myself well associated with those comments.

You know, and that being said, I see uh Sergeant Major and Senior and Lead Leaders there on the back row and uh the strength of the American military, which is why China or Russia or Iran or any other of our enemies will never be on the same par with us is because of the skill of our NCO corps and the professionalism that has existed for decades, and we are a strong military because of the greatest NCO corps in the history of the world. Agreed? Agreed. Admiral Papara, I wanna thank all you witnesses for being here, but for you, as we look to the Indo-Pacific, where the stakes uh for long-term competition are high, we're also managing real real-time demands in other regions of the world. This puts a premium on readiness, responsiveness and strong partnerships. The strategy is clear, we want to deter conflict while competing effectively every day. I'm particularly interested in how we are to respond in the early hours of crisis and whether our forward forces are positioned and available to do that. And Admiral Papara, as part of the President's budget, the Navy has requested a significant increase in ship procurement in line with the President's Golden Fleet initiative. The Navy's plan includes new classes of ships like the LSM for the Marine Corps, a new class of frigate, frigate, a new battleship. How will these new classes of ships enable you and future Indo-Pekom commanders to deter China and if necessary, defeat them in war?

Sir, uh, good morning. Thank you. Indeed, um, is that ships exist, warships exist to move energy, mass, and people across long distances, and there's no substitute. So I'm strongly in support of each of these new new classes, the battleship, the frigate, the LSM, along with accelerating the other classes of ships across the Navy's plan in Golden Fleet for America. Also, including the initiatives on increasing our maintenance capability, and then mainten- and then increasing the nation's overall maritime manufacturing power. And uh, there's just absolutely no substitute for it. And as a quick example, uh, in the last twenty-four for in the last eighteen months, China has delivered twelve submarines, including an SSBN. They've delivered uh seven frigates, eight destroyers, two cruisers, three amphib, and three combat logistics force ships, and an aircraft carrier in just the last eighteen months. They do so to command the sea. And uh and we've got to meet that challenge as we have in the past.

I'm very, uh, I had a question from a reporter yesterday asking me about what I thought about the, uh, golden fleet and the battleships and all that. And listen, it's still something that's maturing in process, but the bottom line, the investment of billions into that program on the left end, still is still, whether it's in a carrier, whether it's in a destroyer, or whether it's in the new battleship, but still is still. So the procurement of all those things left of build is still regardless, and what I know is our infrastructure here in America, which is why I have the Ships of America Act with uh, Mister Garamendi and members of the Senate. It's important that we invest. If we're gonna be a maritime nation, it means we have to build ships, we have to train sailors, both civilian and military. How important is it logistics in a place like the Pacific, which is so far to get, how important are refuelers both on the sea and in the air to Europe?

I can talk to you in classified hearing about just how much tonnage and how many, how many millions of pounds of jet fuel must be airborne at any, at any given time. But it's a sine qua non, a without which not for comp- for combat success.

And regardless of the type of ships, and this applies to you too, General Brunson, now you're kind of on a peninsula there in the far reaches of the world. It matters that we have tonnage in the wood. regardless of what that tonnage consists of, there is a a high value just in the quality and quantity of ships that we have on the sea, whether manned or unmanned. Is that correct?

I concur.

Adam O'Connor? All right. With that, I yield back, Mr. Chairman.

Gentleman yields back. General recognizer, gentleman from California, Mister Carbajal.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, and thank you to all the witnesses for being here today. The twenty twenty five National Security Strategy states President Trump is building a line since and strengthening partnerships in the Indo-Pacific that will be the bedrock of security and prosperity long into the future. Mister Ngo, do you think the constant barrage of on-again, off-again tariffs coming from this administration are helping to strengthen partnerships in the Indo-Pacific? A simple yes or no.

Congressman, I can speak from personal experience. We have and continue to maintain the strongest relationships with all our allies and partners uh throughout the region.

Simply yes or no?

What was your question?

Do you think the constant barrage of on-again, off-again tariffs coming from this administration are helping to strengthen partnerships in the Indo-Pacific? A simple yes or no?

Congressman, I w- a- a- again I'll say from personal t-

It's okay. I'll move on. Over the last year or so, our soft power has diminished significantly And a big part of that is due to the gutting of USAID under Doge. While Congress worked to restore some of this funding, most programs did not come back to previous levels. This includes programs in several Southeast Asian countries. Mister Ngo, one more time, was there ever any concern that cutting foreign aid to key countries in the Pacific would help position China as a viable alternative to the United States?

Uh Congressman, uh State Department is in the lead on issues of foreign aid, so I would refer your question to the State Department.

Thank you. We have a massive foreign military sales FMS issue, which is being worsened by the war of choice in Iran. One stark example are the sixty-six Fsixteens Taiwan purchase back in twenty nineteen. Delivery was supposed to begin in twenty twenty three, but just recently the first two aircraft would were But these are not in Taiwan and not available to be used in conflict yet. Admiral Poparo, how important is it that capabilities purchased through FMS be delivered on schedule? And do you think Taiwan would benefit by having these F-sixteens now?

Congressman, uh, there are problems in our FMS programs. Uh, I think the department is working really hard on fixing some of those problems. I think the State Department's working really hard on fixing those State Integrated air and missile defense is going to be absolutely critical. Uh, that is across all domains, and that uh, that includes, and that's also across all zones of conflict. And so I think it's important that every FMS delivery is delivered, uh, not just on time, but early.

Thank you. Enmer Baparo, in your testimony before this committee last year, you underscored the rapid advancement of China's military capabilities, including growing investments in space and counter space systems. I understand that the commercial remote sensing industry has played a critical role in supporting the COCOMs to ensure that our war fighters have access to persistent, real-time, actionable data. However, the department's budget once again does not reflect that important partnership. Can you discuss the importance of continued investments in commercial solutions to meet operational requirements? And how could expanded access improve domain awareness in your AOR?

Thank you, Congressman. The uh persistent commercial capability so greatly augments our uh unique and exquisite on-orbit capability. And the mass data analytics of multiple inputs provides a precision all its own. I think it adds resiliency, it adds to the constancy

Thank you very much, Mister Chairman, I yield back. Gentleman yields back, Chairman of the Recognizer, gentlemen from Nebraska, Mister Bacon.

Thank you uh Mister Chairman and thank you for being here gentlemen, we appreciate you. I have four questions, I'm gonna try to get right to the point. Admiral Paparo, the Air Force's increased against requirement for B-twenty-ones from a hundred, now we're looking at about a hundred and forty, or a hundred and fifty. How good a news is that for you for your war plans and deterrence?

Congressman, that's very good news and I welcome even better news if we're able to do it.

Okay, that's good. I like that. Uh, secondly, I flew in the Columbus Coler aircraft for eleven years, the EC one thirties. It's transitioning to the EA thirty sevens. When I came in ten years ago, we had six. It's a program of record. And through digging up under couch cushions and scraping and tugging and pulling and with the support of the chairman we got it to twelve. And I think we got three more in the upcoming budget. Now I understand the requirement for PayComm is twenty-two. So can you talk about the importance of the EA thirty-seven? Uh, because uh I'm blessed to have a good committee that supports this, but I'll let them know how important it is to you.

Congressman, there's there's dozens of systems that uh contribute to our counter C five ISR and T, you know, military speak for counter i- intelligence, surveillance, reconnaissance, and targeting. EA thirty-seven, compass call, is a critical linchpin in that uh through all zones of conflict through the gray zone into high-end conflict so we're strongly supportive of that capability as well as all of the other capabilities on orbit on the surface and in the air that contribute to our ability uh to execute the counter c five isr and t mission uh and build out our intel pictures

uh mr. chairman we're getting us to fifteen on this budget we're getting close to the pay come requirement and i'm excited about that joel brunson we're we're listening to news about some of the air defense

No, no impacts to our ongoing missions and and operations, Congressman.

Okay. Admiral Paparo, how far behind are we with military sales to Taiwan? Cuz I'm concerned about deterrence. We don't want a war. But if they have adequate sea mines, anti-shipping missiles, air and missile defense, China's less likely to attack. So this is so important for deterrence.

So if I may, I'll talk to you in closed session on that.

OK. One one last question, I'll get a fifth one in, cuz you guys are they're concise today. How are we how are we doing with building rapport and relationship with India, the largest democracy on this planet?

Well, I was there last month, uh, visited Chandigarh in Punjab State, I was in Delhi, uh, and, uh, and in Bangaluru as well, and, uh, it is a really, it is a really key emphasis, uh, the mill to mill relationship.

Yeah, this is a a game-changing trend that we can build on. OK, one more question, something I asked your predecessor four or five years ago. You know, if you go to Europe, it's a lot of multilateral relationships, NATO. But if you go to the the Pacific Theater, it's a lot of bilateral relationships with Hawaii, sort of in the middle of the hub. Would would we be better served if we tried to foster more multilateral, where Japan's got relationships with Australia, and you got, you know, it w- Would it be stronger or is that, or is it we're just too early for that yet?

Well, Congressman, I think we're in the we're in the middle of this now in our quad relationship.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, that's US, Japan, India, Australia. Uh, in our uh, defense cooperation council between Australia, Republic of the Philippines, Japan, United States, uh, in the Korea, Japan, US trilat, uh, in, uh, the United States as a comprehensive strategic partner to ASEAN and a member of the ADMM plus. Uh, you know, all over we see these multilaterals are ga- are getting richer, they're getting bigger all of the time, it's happening, uh, organically and it's really exciting.

Thank you. Again, I thank all three of you for your your leadership and uh, Mister Chairman, I'll give you back forty seconds.

You're awesome. All right, just for situational awareness, we've been called for a vote, so we're gonna get Mister Keating in and after that we will recess until after votes. Uh, but with that, the gentleman from Massachusetts is recognized.

Thank you, Mister Chairman. I just want to deal with China's engagement with Russia, uh, in terms of its strengthening Moscow's ability to sustain itself in the war on Ukraine. Uh, you know, it's obvious their imports, uh, of Russian oil and natural gas is helping in terms of revenue, uh, with Russia so they can sustain the effort. And also, they're experts of dual use, uh, goods and technology, uh, that that really help them sustain the defense production, uh, as well. Do you wanna comment on China's activity with Russia?

Congressman, on top of being a mar- a, uh, the key critical market for their energy, uh, China produce, China provides ninety percent of the semiconductors that power russia's war machine and seventy percent of the machine tools that powers russia's war machine uh that connection is real it's right before our very eyes and it's deeply concerning

yeah the um you know there's been many uh uh retired military and uh pundits if you will talking about uh the fact that their strategic uh goal in uh the indo-pacific and particularly with china is deterrence the US actions, their comments, uh as well as mine, uh are the deterrence factors weakened by the US lack of commitment to Ukraine, particularly its actions with NATO. Uh I mean, just calling NATO, you know, uh freeloaders, calling NATO pathetic, uh calling them recently paper tigers, uh saying their troops were in the back of the line for our confrontation, even though they were there under article five, the only time it was initiated. I mean, when you're looking at that effect of Ukraine, uh, with China and the US, uh, actions, uh, around Ukraine, doesn't that weaken our deterrence? W- i- as China's looking at it, with Taiwan in particular, that's just not my feeling. I think it's a majority of people that, uh, more people that are retired from the military than current military, uh, in that regard. So I don't wanna get you, uh, into policy before you had to, but, uh, it seems to me that's clear. Perhaps you could answer it, uh. Mister Nob. Let's leave the military out of that policy issue for now.

Congressman, Congressman, I think the relationships we're building with our allies and partners speak for themselves. I think our activities, our our posture, uh, what Indo-Pekom is doing with its, uh, OAIs, I think they speak for themselves. Uh, so no, I I don't think there's been any kind of erosion of deterrence, uh, in the Indo-Pacific.

Well, you you must admit, you

Congressman, we're doing everything we can in close coordination with Indo-Pakom and USFK.

Mm. Mm. Mm.

Uh,

I'm not concerned about the military cooperation, sir. I'm concerned about, uh, the Commander-in-Chief and the secretary and their comments, uh, as it affects that deterrent effect.

Sir, we will, the department will always make sure we're ready to respond to any kind of contingency and that we're able to deter any threat uh in the in the in the Indo-Pacific.

So just, I'll give you one more chance. So the actions we've taken in Ukraine, pulling back, and the language and the fracturing of our NATO alliance. I didn't even mention trying to, uh, invade a NATO country like Denmark through Greenland. But that affects the deterrent posture of the US when they see that fracturing, cuz one of our greatest strengths has been the coalition we've had, uh, the w- global coalition, particularly with NATO. So, how does that not hurt the deterrent effect, uh, that the US poses on China? by the statements of our top people.

Sir, our

Including the President and the Secretary of of Defense.

Sir, our deterrence posture in the Indo-Pacific is strong, and we'll make sure it stays that way.

OK, you you repeated yourself. I just think that uh that's something that has really hurt us. Uh, you know, hurt us globally, but particularly hurt us in the Indo-Pacific. I yield back, uh, Mr. Chairman.

Gentlemen, yields back, uh, we will now recess until approximately

Eleven fifty five to twelve um. And thank you, you got a break. All right, let's uh let's go ahead and get started while members filter back. We apologize it took longer than we expected. Uh there was another committee that could not make it to the floor in time and it killed held us up but we're back now

mr moylan

huh

should we call him mr moylan

alright so we will now recognize the gentleman from guam mister moylan for five minutes for his questions

uh thank you mr. chairman and thank you to our panel here today i appreciate all our interest in indo peking especially with the our my home on Uh, I also wanna thank uh my my good c- uh colleague uh, Joe Wilson, who has been a strong advocate for the islands as well. Uh, Admiral Paparo, I appreciate all your support uh for Guam, and I know you have our, the nation's best interests uh in ham when you for the our defense, being the most western soil that we have. Um, one of my biggest uh long-standing requests for Indopaycom has been expanding our investments in Guam's power grid, uh, which is large largely still owned by the War Department. And I've been advocated for the use of authorities under uh ten USC twenty eight fifteen to underground more far power lines to ensure the grid can meet Department of War's growing demands uh for electricity. So what do you view as the best path for DOW to support Guam Power Authority in expanding infrastructure and meeting military requirements.

Congressman, uh, good afternoon, thank you. Uh, you're you're well aware of how important shore power is to uh naval base Guam and that is to get high fidelity reliable power, shore power uh to the submarine squadron that's there. And the overall resilience of Guam uh, which is so important to our nation's defense is so important to us at the us indo-pacific command and on all the things that we're cooperating on on the hospitals uh on uh on the building out of critical infrastructure uh you know there are direct defense benefits to that and so not just for the uh reliable shore power that provides power to naval base but for the to the entire island you can count on my complete support for that infrastructure. also the critical. infrastructure that supports Guam defense system, which is also ver- so very critical.

I thank you for that and uh as they, we experienced in this last storm uh the utilities and com- bringing them back up, uh and the those winds weren't as bad but the storm just stayed for three days and the high surf and all made big difference so working with Department of War, uh helping with our finance to complete the power requirements that we need, will be excellent. I thank you for your support on that. Uh, in addition, let's talk about our civilian employees, uh, uh, that our Department of Defense employees, uh, their living quarter allowance. As we know, we have, uh, high expenses on Guam and the employees hired off island, uh, do have LQA. The employees hired from Guam do not and end up going, uh, to the mainland to get that additional funding. So we did include the LQA in, in, uh, the recent NDAA. I'm just wondering how, when would this be implemented?

Uh, I'll have to get back with you on when it's implemented, but I do want to express my support for it. Uh, Guam is one of those locations where cost of living, uh, uh, including cost of housing is so expensive. We're trying to relieve some of that cost of housing with our own, uh, construction of on-base housing facilities to take the pressure off. But for our, uh, our civilian employees, uh, ensuring that their compensation meets

I thank you, sir. Uh, and lastly, we menti- you mentioned the um, our medical facilities. We just don't have enough. If conflict does happen, we don't, we don't have enough at all. With, and if conflict doesn't happen, with all the troops coming on in, our pediatric ward uh, is not not capable, right? We're ha- we're hoping people will have a good time and wanting to start their families on Guam that that would be terrific. So we need that support, especially with our hospitals. Uh, uh, our Navy hospital is way too small, wasn't meant to be, uh, built for that. And our civilians' hospitals don't have the capacity. So if you can ensure that we can with GPA, with also our hospital gets assistance. Please.

That I will, sir, and and um, you, Governor Lew, my dear friend and I are in Loxic.

Thank you to the panel. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Uh, gentleman yields back to you, and I recognize Jim from Colorado, Mr. Crow.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, I yield my five minutes to the gentleman from California, Congressman Tran.

Thank you so much to my friend and colleague Representative Crow for yielding. Thank you Chairman Rogers, Ranking Member Smith, and thank you to all of the witnesses for being here today. Next Thursday, April thirtieth marks the fifty-first anniversary of Black April and the fall of Saigon. As the son of Vietnamese refugees, I know how imperative it is to recognize this solemn day. That is history, that history is a prime example of why this committee and this Congress should be focused on the Indo-Pacific. I also represent Joint Forces training base in Los Alamitos, a mission critical base for the Pacific. So I think it's fair to say that my community and I understand better than most that deterring the Chinese Communist Party's aggression, expansion, and influence has to be the number one priority of the department defense. Which is why it is also concerning that there are reports stating that resources from the Indo-Pacific are being transferred to the Middle East to support the administration's war of choice in Iran, a war that's claimed the lives of thirteen General Brunson, is it true that resources from the US forces Korea have been redirected to the Middle East?

Congressman, thank you for the question. I would prefer to answer that question in close.

W- I appreciate that and I I I will follow up uh in the closed session. Um in in the event with uh our resources being sent to uh you know, uh Admiral Paparo, how has the movement of resources put our soldiers and interests in the Indo-Pacific at risk?

Uh you know I along with my uh my good friend General Brunson, I'd like to talk about that uh in closed session. Uh we do have forces that are operating in the Middle East uh and um and um we do expect the return of those resources we've taken entrepreneurial approaches uh to maintain our program of exercises, we do maintain a combat ready reserve. Uh the military is always in the action of uh controlling for risk. Uh and uh we can get we can get deeper into the individual movements when we are in closed session. Uh but um you know uh I'll also say that uh those forces in the Indo-Pacific are uh experiencing combat and there's no substitute for combat, and there will be direct applicability to the Indo-Pacific.

I appreciate that, Admiral. And you know, our military has been asked to uh do a lot this year, with uh multiple conflicts and operations across the world. If this keeps up for too long, uh such a high demand could actually undermine our military readiness, rather than improve it. Uh we're already seeing the USS Ford on track to break the longest deployment for an aircraft carrier since the Vietnam War. Uh Admiral Pororo, uh from your perspective, are we approaching a point where the demand on our troop is degrading our readiness?

Congressman, there, you know, there are finite limits to the employment of the gear where it's gotta go back for maintenance availabilities. I I've not yet seen where depot level maintenance has been affected for our aircraft, or ship availability has been affected for our ships. I've not seen that, uh, in particularly in the Indo Indo-Pacific. It is something that we keep an eye on. And then, uh, you know, I've gotten a a a strong dialogue with the department on ensuring that the

Appreciate that. And uh General Brunson, what are your thoughts on uh the particular the forces within the K- uh Korean peninsula?

Uh Congressman, uh thank you for the question, and this I can't answer right now. And I would tell you that um what we have in the model ally in Korea is simply this. About twenty percent of the cost of stationing Forces Forward is borne by the Koreans. And that through the special measures agreement, which takes into account about uh half a billion dollars in in terms of what would be MilKon that the Department of War would have to bear which they don't have to bear because that's paid for by the Korean Iraq funded construction. Uh we also get about an eighty-five percent uh blessing in terms of salaries which for for our KGS wage employees that support our command in theater. That's

I thank you three very much for being here and uh I ran out of time.

Thank you. Thank you.

So uh, Chairman, I yield back. Gentleman yields back. Chairman, I recognize the gentleman from Virginia, Mister McGuire.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, thank you to our witnesses and to all of our um, military and veterans here, we really appreciate what you're doing to keep our country safe.

Yes.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, just want to thank our witnesses and everybody for your service and thank you for being here. Uh, Admiral, you talked about using AI to make decisions and without getting into anything classified, what are some of the examples of things that you would use AI to make

So at the tactical level, you know, the the application of AI for swarming drones, you know, the ability to optimize a force against another force at the tactical level, is an AI is an AI force in employment, uh, down to make fewer weapons at mass be more effective against more targets. At the operational level, as you're linking joint function, command and control, intelligence, information, movement maneuver, fires, sustainment, protection and security. The ability to link those so that you are optimizing the force so that a fire's decision also leads to the right kind of sustainment decision for reload. And making those processes that can sometimes be in a stovepipe as accurate as possible is also uh one of the ways in which we're employing AI and then at the strategic level to understand given uh the sensitive intelligence, uh the behavior on the battlefield, to understand better understand the adversary's strategy what their next moves are their second the third and the fourth move so at all three levels tactical operational and strategic the employment of small ai and machine lev machine learning models at the tactical level uh llms and agentic models so that every decision is ai enhanced so that machines are making the kind of mathematical

So to speed it up, maybe more accurate.

Yes.

Mister Noe, we've heard significant um autonomous and unmanned systems requirements for the Indo-Pacific theater. What is your mechanism for ensuring that DOW acquisition and policy strategies are actually aligned with those operational needs?

Uh, Congressman, uh, as you know, uh, reforming our acquisition system is a priority for Secretary Hegseth. Uh, this is an issue that, uh, policy works.

Admiral, there are significant unmanned surface vessels in the President's budget for next year. You've been a proponent of USVs for a while. Have you developed a concept of operations for use of those USVs and how you will integrate them in the manned fleet operations?

We have, sir, and I'd like to give you more detail in the close session.

Sounds good. And then uh Admiral Papiro, Now during your appearance last year we talked about how small module reactors might transform the ability to deliver energy to our forces and across your AOR. How would you leverage a Project Pele scale deployable reactor in the first and second islands uh chains?

So right, yeah, this availability of power super would would potentially supersede our need for fuel. And so having small ro modular reactors that can deliver uh reliable power uh, in a distributed fashion, I think is just gonna make us more resilient, uh, from a sustainment standpoint. Uh, it's gonna drive down our costs, it's gonna drive down our our fuel costs, uh, and then the cost of what it takes to gain the battle space to move that f- that fuel. And so, uh, you know, I'm strongly supportive of these measures.

You know, as a Navy SEAL veteran, I understand how effective a small agile unit can be. Do you have what you need in Endopaycom, and if not, what can we do to help?

Well I I think um I'll say this is that um I'm you know I'm never satisfied with what we have because the the bill at the end is the loss of people, capability, money, and time and conflict. Uh but I will say that our thirteen thirteen or rather twelve fifty-one this year report uh requi shows no unfunded requirements given the budget submission this year.

And uh Admiral, could you describe how you view it? advanced and additive manufacturing being utilized through the PI PI R.

Uh if yeah Piper is a you know really important uh um initiative for us uh to gain this resilience and um additive manufacturing um this is advanced manufacturing, better metallurgy, faster, on demand and local uh and so this is the future is AI enabled advanced uh additive manufacturing. Uh, numerous companies in the United States that are mastering this right now, and getting the technical community to approve of the methods and to approve in advance these advanced parts forward is gonna be critical for this.

Thank you. Uh, you're back.

Jim, here's back, you're now recognized gentleman from Massachusetts, Mister Moulton.

Thank you very much, Mister Chairman. Um, to all of you sitting up there, uh, when you signed up to serve, many of you a long time ago, I imagine your vision of service was not this. sitting in a hearing room, it's nonetheless important, so thank you for doing this work. Um Doctor Ngo, uh President Trump has talked a lot about his burgeoning relationship with China. Do you think that President Biden or President Trump is stronger on China?

Congressman, I think President Trump's record on China speaks for itself, if you look at what

So you think it was a good idea for him to give in to China and sell them all the AI chips? That not only the Biden administration, but the first Trump administration had prevented them from buying?

Sir, on the issue of chips, Uh, the Department of Commerce, uh, is in lead on that issue and I would prefer

I'm just asking you, do you have an opinion?

I would refer your questions regarding chips to the Commerce Department.

I, I can ask the Commerce Department. I'm asking your opinion. You're, you're supposedly in charge of deterrence here. Do you think that was helpful for deterrence?

Congressman, we're doing everything we can to make sure our deterrence posture is stop

Really? Because I think if you were stopping the chip sales, that would help. And I know there's a lot of bipartisan agreement on that. What about the fact

Uh, Congressman, we have uh very important discussions with our allies and partners on the issue of critical minerals and rare earths. Uh, I do think it's in our interest to uh uh have more secure supply chains uh for critical minerals and rare earths.

Well, I would agree. I think China's put us in a bind here. What do you think about the fact that people refer to

Congressman, I'll I'll I'll repeat what I said earlier, which is we are doing, the Department of War is doing everything it can uh to make sure deterrence posture is in the strongest place possible.

So if you're doing everything you can, do you think that the national security s-

Uh, sir, Uh, sir, I will point out the arm sale that was announced a few I will point out the arm sale that was announced a few months ago under this administration of eleven billion dollars, month ago under this administration of eleven billion dollars

You're right, it was announced. But what's, what confidence can you give us that the president won't chicken out on that as well? Because it seems like every step of the way, he announces something that might go against China or deter China or put pressure on China, and then he always chickens out and gives in to China.

Sir, I think the the eleven billion dollars in arms sales speaks for itself.

No, no, no. It has not been sold. It's been proposed. What confidence do you have that that deal will actually go through?

Ye-

What can you, what confidence can you give us?

So you're right, uh, Taiwan also needs to do its part. The Taiwan-LY is currently going through a process of passing, uh, what could potentially be a historic special defense budget.

Why is the president so noncommittal when it comes to defending Taiwan? He said, " I don't want to be put in that position", whereas President Biden was pretty explicit that we will defend Taiwan.

Sir, I think strategic ambiguity is a policy that has worked for decades. Uh, it preserves the president's decision space. I don't know how helpful it is to publicly, uh, state, uh, our intentions of what would happen in the event of a, uh, an, a Chinese invasion. Uh, again, strategic ambiguity has worked, uh, and I fully support it.

Admiral Paparo, how long will it take to

So I'll answer that question in closed session, um, but um, uh, you know I'm really supportive of supercharging the defense industrial base, and I'm also very supportive of non-traditional weapon sets that will continue to augment and affect the the changing character

I am too. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I yield back.

Chair and I recognize you. I'm from Texas. Mister Gooden.

Admiral Paparo, yesterday you testified that Bitcoin held potential as a tool for national security. Recent research from the Bitcoin Policy Institute estimates China has approximately one hundred ninety-four thousand Bitcoins, while the United States has approximately three hundred twenty-eight thousand Bitcoins. In this era of digital competition, would it be to our strategic advantage to maintain a lead in this as we do with other strategic resources like gold and oil.

Sir um, our interest in bitcoin is as a tool of cryptography, a blockchain and reusable proof of work, as an additional tool to secure networks and to project power. And so I am, I I think this protocol is here to stay. I think the computer science of it has direct implications for the projection of power, not financial, but from a computer science standpoints from the securing of networks. And so I am supportive of those applications.

I'd

Uh, all instruments of national power are important, but from the military application standpoint, my interest in Bitcoin is as a computer science tool as projection of power.

I appreciate that, I agree with you, and I'd also like to hear your thoughts on monetary competition over the coming decades. What role does Bitcoin play in spreading digital property rights?

Well, I, I, you know, People use Bitcoin today, right now, to protect their own intellectual property. Uh, and that's the reusable proof of work protocol that's combined with blockchain for accountability and cryptography for security. And so, that's the role that I see for it. Uh, I see direct national security implications, and then I'm supportive for anything that maintains our own, uh, dollar dominance worldwide.

I appreciate that. Do you think we're adequate adequately

I think that uh our recent act with the genius act is a great step forward that moves us in that direction.

And I'll lastly I'll ask you as we continue to craft the NDAIA, what authorities and resources does Indopaycom need to address as respects the national security dimensions of digital assets?

Presently we're in experimentation, so I'll give you a deeper look into that. Presently we have a

I appreciate that, Admiral. Thank you. I yield back, Mr. Chairman.

Gentlemen, yields back, Chairman, I recognize gentlelady from California, Miss Jacobs.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Admiral Papail, General Brunson, nice to see you both again. Um, I first want to ask, um, about civilian harm mitigation efforts. Over the past year, Secretary Hegseth has made significant cuts to personnel and institutional roles responsible for civilian harm mitigation and response, saying there will be quote, no stupid rules of engagement, end quote. Uh, mister Ngo, how many Indo-Pakom personnel are currently assigned full time to civilian harm mitigation issues and what are their specific roles and responsibilities within the command?

Uh, Congressman, I'll I'll I'll have to take that answer back,

OK, I'll look forward to getting an answer from you.

I don't have the answer.

Admiral Paparo, from a commander's perspective, what operational and institutional risks does the loss of dedicated civilian harm expertise create for Indo-Pakom's overall preparedness? And specifically, how does that risk calculus change when you factor in the prospect of large-scale high-tempo conflict in the Indo- Indo- Pacific region?

Congresswoman, I'll say that, um, following the laws of armed conflict, y- you know, which are, um, ancient to a great extent and eternal, and also guarantees uh that our would-be adversaries also follow the laws of armed of armed conflict is a matter of first principles for everyone in uniform including the civilians that work I think uh the mitigation of civilian harm in conflict is a is a matter of first duty for everyone who works in the DOD and and we're always going to work really hard to ensure that our actions are right just proportional.

Yes, well and I very much appreciate that and and I know that that our folks in uniform, take this very seriously. Um I guess what I'm trying to figure out is in the absence of a sort of standing institutionalized civilian harm capacity at the command, could you maybe walk me through like how would Indopaycom manage civilian harm mitigation assessment and response, who would be responsible and what gaps would immediately become apparent if conflict were to begin in the Indo-Pacific tomorrow.

I'll say um commanders are always accountable. Account that w- commanders have the accountability, the responsibility, and the authority. And I am accountable to the country, to the committee, uh for you for all civilian harm mitigation for executing our combat operations within the laws of armed conflict. We use uh we use all of our targeting capability with our collateral damage estimates. We do so basic within our

Yeah. Okay, I appreciate that. If you need anything from us to make sure that you have the actual capacity you need to, to do this, please let us know because this is a priority for the committee and and has been in a bipartisan way.

Thank you, Congressman.

Yep. Um, I, I actually, uh, wanna follow up on something, um, you said to my colleague, uh, Mister McGuire, um, and some of the things you said in SAS yesterday around sort of the use of and and especially this kind of idea of the the tactical swarming and cheap expendable munitions deployed in mass, with AI tools. Um. I wanna ask in particular how that would work in the Taiwan Strait, for instance. So, it's one of the most heavily trafficked civilian maritime corridors, commercial shipping, fishing fleets, et cetera, et cetera. Um, and a strategy of a mass AI-enabled low-cost autonomous kil- capability deployed

The first, and I think this is w- you know, kind of the rules of unmanned and the rules of drone warfare is that we, is that you strive generally to not send a human being to do a dangerous

Mm. Absolutely.

And number two, you never lose human accountability for taking lives in offensive operations or defensive operations. And I'm accountable. I'm the commander and I'm accountable for that. So, having uh, so having human oversight over this operation, it's not necessarily a a person in the loop, but it's a person on the loop that can stop something. The assurance of packetability.

Well, thank you. Thank you both um for your service. Um, Mr. Chairman, I yield back.

General, I yield back. General, I recognize you. General from Texas, Mister Luttrell.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, Admiral General. Mr. Secretary, thank you all and everyone else in the room, thank you for your service.

Thank you.

I mean that wholeheartedly.

You too.

You know, the ultimate sacrifices that you and your family go through every single day, so God bless each and every one of you. Off-grid uh power generation, Admiral? Um, can you, can we do a little bit deeper dive as far as we can go inside this current setting? Uh, I just wanna make sure that in the NDA or anything that's coming after That you are very well funded and that we're pushing the envelope hard enough for any kind of contingency that may populate in this A AOR.

Yes, sir, this um off-grid power generation. This is the uh deployable generators, all the things that deliver power so that we can execute all the joint functions. Uh, critically important, a part of our sustainment. We've gotta be thinking about all classes of supply, Uh and energy supply is critically important within that and uh I you know, I think that this is inherent within our plans and so

Are we prepared to move in a a shorter period of time and are you and your I forget always, I'm not gonna ask if you have it warm and fuzzy that would be weird, but are you inside your comfort zone of what currently exists? And I would guess is the department moving?

Uh I think uh f first is that uh I'm not gonna put a troop in harm's way without all the things that they need, able to live and succeed and survive and sustain. And so, uh, I'm very comfortable that, uh, within our plans, our forces are well-planned across all, across all categories of supply, and we've got that ability to sustain. Uh, it's the resilience of it that I worry about, and, you know, I think we have to be restless and always working towards good solutions.

Uh, you mentioned, um, low, I think you said low-cost hypersonic capability.

Yes sir.

And I from in doing my homework and uh one of your major concerns is hypersonics.

That's right.

Uh it uh we in the right setting for I wanna ask you this question again in in in the next um in the classified setting but uh uh my I my one of my major concerns is our capability in the hypersonic space and speed ratios but

Uh we're working with a number of um innovative companies that are uh have the capability to provide um, low-cost seeker-enabled hypersonic weapons at a fraction of the cost of some of the programs of record. And we've gotta take risk on this. We gotta take risk in putting them on contracts so that they can scale. We have to take risk in this in giving them the authority to operate quickly. We'll be experimenting this summer with live fire on this.

OK. Um, it, this is more of a, a, a request or a I think this kind of understanding of hypersonics and the importance of it is lost in translation inside this place. There's a few of us really paying attention to it, but as you as the subject matter expert, or the one that's on top of this, if um and everyone else engage with the members kind of in a deeper dive of why we should be focusing on this, if you would please, sir.

If your weapon travels at Mach one, uh, and you're actioning a moving target, or you're actioning a, a target that is fleeting, uh, and that target is Mach one, that sounds fast. Let's say that you're shooting that, t- that, that weapon at twelve hundred miles. If you're moving at Mach one, over the two hours, things on the battlefield there could change, in the two hours that it takes a Mach one weapon to close twelve hundred miles. If your weapon is traveling at Mach ten, then that two hours is

I'm gonna b- I'm gonna borrow that one from you if you don't mind.

You you've ma- you've spent a life

I'm not gonna blame that one as my own if you're okay with that.

You've spent a life shooting, moving, communicating. The faster you're moving, the faster you're shooting, and the faster your round hits home, the better. And speed, speed is the, is the advantage. of the twenty-first century, speed in compute, speed in decision making, speed of engagement.

Thank you, sir. Mr. Chairman, how you doing?

Chairman, he looks back, Chair. A recognized gentleman from New York, Mr. Ryan.

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you all for being here. Um, agree with the, both what you said, Admiral Papparo, that the, your your your AOR is quote " the defining strategic theater". Um, what you said, Mister Noh, in referencing the NDS, that we have to deter China through strength, and that you said we're doing everything we can. building on comments from from colleagues is that what's happening in the CENTCOM AOR is a direct undercutting of that ability to show our strength and and then in effect deliver the the deterrence we all agree that we need. In the first four weeks of well now uh well primarily in the first four weeks of the war we expended tremendous numbers of long range missiles, a thousand plus JASM's which is twenty percent of our stockpile, eight hundred and fifty plus, Tomahawks more than thirty percent, As many in the room know, we produce eighty tomahawks a year, that's ten years' worth of of at our current rate of production stockpile, used in four weeks. We know for air defense muni- munitions half of both our THAAD and Patriot interceptors expended in that time period. As you've briefed uh Admiral, these are critical munitions on day one of the potential contingencies in your AOR, and they were low even before the uh o- operation Epic Fury. In twenty-eight, Twenty twenty five, in fact, the administration said it couldn't provide Ukraine with Tomahawks because they were needed uh rightly in Indo-Pakom. And then in twenty twenty four, Admiral, you talked about at that moment your dissatisfaction with magazine depth, which to the chair's credit and to everybody in this room, we've been working to address. And I don't I'm not dismissing that, but the reality of where we are now is is important. Um, that builds on the fact that uh uh uh beyond the munitions, Iranian missile and drone strikes have have hit US bases across the Middle East. uh and shown a lot of uh capability that uh you know we knew was coming but even more uh threat from that. And then of course as other colleagues have mentioned, the readiness impacts of um using over forty thousand of our deployed navy ships in the war after them just coming from the Western hemisphere for Venezuela. So I along with many others are worried about one the the the position it puts us in, and and you ultimately and your your folks in Indo-Pekom. Two, what message it sends to China as other colleagues. have said and ultimately what it means for our ability to deter and if necessary defeat uh action so a- a- assistant secretary no looking at all this, munitions burn rate, readiness strain, base vulnerability how can you say as you just said we're doing everything we can in the department of war to deter

Uh congressman as secretary has said uh the department has sufficient munitions to address to address

And you can deliver that with a straight face, that there's been, you you really honestly believe that. Uh, I would point folks to independent, public source, open source research from CSIS, other leading think tanks, nonpartisan, highly trusted,

Mm.

these these impacts are real. I, and if we don't acknowledge that, and be honest about it, how can we say we're doing right by our our folks? Admiral Paparo, I know this is uncomfortable, I I get it and I I wanna hear in the classified setting, but I think the American people deserve to understand the decisions that are made, by the way with no input from Congress, have real immediate operational impacts.

Congressman, I'd say the way ahead is is tripling, quadrupling the production rate of these munitions, and then number two, finding suitable, innovative, non-trivial, nontraditional s- substitutes for them, which in some cases with the right innovation can exceed that capability.

A- and I agree,

That's the way forward.

and, and we are all working on that in good faith, but that doesn't take away from the immediate impacts. And, you know, the timelines that you've briefed to us and that others have put out there, that we are quickly coming upon that, and we just mathematically uh are concerned about that. And to be clear, I'm I am rooting for us and we are are all rooting for us, but solving this problem starts with an honest reckoning. General, do you wanna add anything on that?

What what I would add, um, Congressman, would be simply this, that you know the state of our stores prior to any of this happening. Um, you understand the PDs that have been given to us to support operations globally, um, before this, and that, uh, we've really gotta get to the beginning of this, which is what do we need, how is industry helping us get there, and then look for some of these other creative avenues to pursue to solve some of our problems. Uh, Admiral Poparo has talked at length, ad nauseum almost, about some of these cheaper alternatives that we have. We need to run full force at some of those things and solve our own problems, as opposed to going back to getting old dotics, old forms of engagement, and really start to work to solve our problems, sir.

Agree. Thank you, and I yield back, Mr. Chair.

OK. Alright, we are now, this is, we were gonna end at that, but uh we're gonna uh go to Mr. Kuda for questions and then when we g- after that, we will adjourn the public hearing, we'll go to the classified hearings, and we will start back on the itinerary of members. as w- as if we stayed in public session. So those members who are up next, starting with Mister Fallon, will be recognized in the classified session, before we go back to members who have already had a chance to ask questions. So those staff members back in their offices, if you're waiting for your member to get the questions, make sure they understand that they're gonna be first up when we get in a classified session. With that, the General A from Hawaii, Mister Kuda is recognized for five minutes.

Thank you very much, Miss, Mister Chair. Admiral Paparo, as you know, this morning,

Aloha Congresswoman. Aloha Congresswoman. I am confident that uh we together can find a solution. I think uh all parties understand the uh critical status of Pohakaloa training area as well as all the other training lands and important land And uh I I you know I am confident that we can find a solution that's acceptable to all.

I I know you're confident, and I know you're committed, uh but I also know you're not the key one negotiating right now. So my basic question is can there be any kind of consensus reach if condemnation continues to be the threat? In my humble opinion, this is coercion. This is not consensus that we're talking about, a simple yes or no. Shouldn't condemnation be taken off the table in order for us to have a real solid negotiation as to these lease lands?

I, you know, I I think finding a consensus solution is is important and it's above my pay grade, uh these these um these these terms,

Understand, I know but I think you'll agree from your passing.

uh but um our our relationships within Hawaii are really critical for the operation of the joint force and it's our home.

Absolutely, I think the only person who's come before me um right here to be able to talk about Pohokalo you're the only one who actually lives in Hawaii so you know exactly what says steaks you know exactly what we mean the lands in question, now let's take it a slightly different direction, but hopefully you can help me. The lands in question are former Crown lands, public trust lands that the admissions act dedicated to the benefit of Native Hawaiians these are seated lands they're held in trust. Knowing this, who needs to be at that negotiation table in order for us to seek this consensus, this positive resolution that you'd like to see?

Understood. Uh, members of the community and and my own uh dedication to the Native Hawaiian community. Uh and so all and all parties uh with a stake uh should be a part of the process,

Do you think Native Hawaiians have been at the table?

must be.

Do you think their voices, their perspectives, their historical trauma, has that been at the table? Has that been part of the negotiations?

I know that US Army Pacific uh is very respectful of those traditions.

Very respectful, well have they been at the table? These party to negoti negotiations.

Uh

Have Native Hawaiians, their voice, entities, uh, including but not limited to the Office of Hawaiian Affair that has a constitutional responsibility to these lands and to their beneficiaries? Have they been at the table? Should they be at the table?

I'm sorry, I'm I'm not a part of the negotiation, as you well know.

But knowing what you know, living in Hawaii, knowing the importance of making sure people are not just present, but they're engaged, their perspectives are actually heard and included. Do you feel from everything you've seen so far, and most of that,

I think we can work harder at it.

Absolutely, I think we have to do a lot better.

Thank you.

Uh, simpler question. PTA is stolen land. Can we agree on that? I I mean, even if we take a look at the area in question for the leasehold, the vast majority of the land being bombed right now was taken as a

Are you asking me? I'm not going to answer that.

OK.

Uh I that that's beyond my remit.

So do you think we paid anything for over two thirds of the land that you're bombing right now at PTA? How much do we pay for that? Nothing. And for the small portion that we are engaging with now, that I wanna remove the thread of condemnation for, that I would like to see in a real robust renegotiation with real advocates, real beneficiaries sitting at the table, their rights, their perspectives, their views, their history, shared and part of an agreement. Do you not think that they should be at the table given that vast majority of PTA, Pohakaloa training era, is stolen land, the rest of it you paid a dime

I think I think it's important that we reach a consensus approach, Congresswoman,

Can we at least agree that Native Hawaiians were never there and never asked in the

and you know I do.

first place whether or not they felt okay giving their Crown lands to the federal government, to the United States, to be bombed by the military. Can we agree that Native Hawaiians never gave their consent, they never gave gave up their authority, their sovereignty, There are claims to these lands.

Gentle lady's time's expired. I appreciate Mister Pound accommodating that audible call.

Thank you, Miss.

Uh, this concludes the open portion of our hearing. Uh, we are going to adjourn now to reconvene at one ten in room twenty two twelve.