Various Measures

i heard you know i know i know it's really like a long time ago i've been like

yeah

pretty surrounded i just it's just crazy i mean i've been like in a lot of places like

yeah

yeah but yeah it's just crazy i mean i've been like in court i've been in court for like ten minutes and then i'm like oh my god i'm like oh my god do you all put down your own clickers about your things sorry what do you all put down your own voting things um the clickers usually fall on green zone and i'll pass them out ok oh i think they're over there ok

and a short prayer please rise The committee will now come to order, uh without objection the chair is authorized to declare a recess of the committee at any time. As required by house rules, a copy of the legislative measures have been made available to members and the public at least twenty-four hours in advance. The objection of the committee will vote uh electronically in accordance with committee rules and regulations developed by the house committee, on rules and administration. I now recognize myself for opening remarks. Uh good afternoon and welcome to everyone. Uh today we will mark up uh the important bills that support all businesses and reflect a consistent message that Main Street deserves a government that is transparent accountable and invested in its success. As Chairman I'm proud of the work uh this committee is doing to ensure that small businesses remain a key engine of the American economy driving growth in opportunity communities across the country together with the ranking member my friend, we have continued to work on legislation that reflects our commitment to rooting out fraud strengthening the oversight of the SBA programs and ensuring that small businesses have the tools and the resources they need to thrive. Several of the bills we will consider today address accountability and transparency than the SBA. Among them are bills that would impose stronger uh reporting and budgeting requirements on the uh SBA's disaster alone program strengthened reporting requirements on COVID era loan fraud, and ensure the SBA certification programs are delivering for small businesses they were designed to serve. We also uh will consider legislation that ensures small businesses can fairly compete uh for federal contracts by codifying the rule of two as well as legislation that examines the impact of federal antitrust agencies enforcement decisions on the small business community too. Rounding out today's mark-up are are bills that modernize the SBA's lending practices by clarifying the flagship seven-A loan program, coverage technology and software investments, increasing oversight of the SBA's uh use of artificial intelligence, and examining the effectiveness of federal cyber resources for small businesses. As we continue growing a digital economy, we cannot let success to capital or access to capital uh in Paramein Street, America. And finally, we will consider a bill to enhance awareness of health care coverage options, uh, through the SBA's existing outreach program. Small businesses employ nearly half the American workforce and drive innovation, uh, coast to coast and all states in between. They deserve a federal government that works as hard as they do, and the committee has a responsibility to deliver on that. The legislation before us today is directed as direct reflection of that commitment. And I'm proud of the bipartisan effort that has brought us today's Mar- to today's Mark-up and I look forward to working with my colleagues to advance meaningful legislation that empowers small businesses and strengthens the communities they serve. With that, I yield to my friend and the distinguished ranking member from New York Mr. Lasquez for her opening remarks.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, for convening this Mark-up today. Let me begin by thanking you for adding H R twenty eight zero four the Protecting Small Business Competition Act to the agenda today. The rule of two is critical to preserving competition and allowing small business contractors to successfully enter, compete and remain in the industrial base. HR twenty eight zero four is a priority for me and I look forward to working with you to get it enacted into law before the end of the session. I plan to lend my support to all but one bill under consideration today. Five of the bills under consideration will arm our committee with more information to oversee the SBA and ensure program integrity. I applaud members for working together on these bills, which will increase reporting, improve accountability, and ensure policymakers have information to see how the agency is operating and serving entrepreneurs. On one hand we have these bipartisan bills calling studies and reports, but on the other we are doing very little to address the real concerns of small businesses. President Trump's failed economic agenda is leaving small businesses with mounting anxiety uncertainty and economic pain. They are struggling with tariffs, higher borrowing costs and surging food and gas prices. I want to make it clear that Democrats on this committee stand ready to conduct oversight of the SBA and work together to address the needs of small employers entrepreneurs and the communities they support that is where focus needs to be delivering real result for small businesses thank you again, Mister Williams, I yield back.

General Lady yields back. Does any other member seek recognition for the purpose of making an opening statement? All right, seeing none, we will move to the consideration of the first bill. All right, the committee now moves to a consideration of H R forty-two thirty-eight, the Disaster Loan Accountability and Reform Act introduced by Representative Tim Moore. from the great state of North Carolina with representative Goodlander as the committee uh colleague. Uh the clerk will report the bill.

H R forty-two thirty-eight, a bill?

Uh without objection, H R forty-two thirty-eight is considered as read and open for amendment. I have an amendment in the nature of a substitute at the desk. The amendment has been distributed in advance. The clerk uh will report the amendment.

Amendment in the nature of a substitute to H R forty-two thirty-eight,

Uh without objection,

ultraviolet.

uh the amendment will be as read and will serve as the uh base text for the purpose of further amendment. Uh, I now recognize myself for uh remarks as the as uh on the bill and the amendment. I'd first like to thank our colleague, Mister Moore, from the great state of North Carolina, for introducing this bill. During the twenty twenty-four hurricane season, the SBA disaster loan relief program under the Biden administration exhausted its funding entirely for the first time uh since the program's inception. Uh, this has forced a pause on new loan dis- uh, disbursements while thousands of Americans were actively recovering from hurricanes, Milton and Helene. Survivors across impacted communities were left waiting for help, not because help was unavailable, but because the Biden's SBA failed to properly and timely notify Congress of a funding shortfall. Uh, and that's unacceptable, I think we all agree, and it cannot happen again. So H R forty-two thirty-eight, the Disaster Loan Accountability and Performance Act, responds directly to that catastrophe uh by strengthening oversight and transparency, improving budgeting requirements, and building greater accountability uh into the disaster lending process. This bill ensures the program can keep pace with the scale of modern disasters we see. It reflects our commitment to helping families, homeowners, and small businesses uh recover and rebuild and it also gives Americans Yes. a confidence that when a disaster strikes their community relief will be there. I urge my colleagues to vote yes on H. R. tw- forty-two thirty-eight as amended and I'd yield back. I now recognize Representative Goodlander from the great state of New Hampshire to speak on the bill and the amendment.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, Ranking Member Velazquez, thank you for your leadership. I'm very proud to be leading our bipartisan disaster loan accountability reform act, alongside two great colleagues from the state of North Carolina, Tim Moore and Don Davis. Congressman Davis represents communities in Eastern North Carolina that were among the hardest hit by Hurricane Helene. We saw in that moment what it looks like when our government falls short of our people when they need us most. And our bipartisan bill is an answer to those preventable failures. So here's what happened. In twenty twenty four, disaster struck, hurricane after hurricane made landfall across the United States. Communities were devastated, families lost their homes, small businesses, they watched their livelihoods wash away. And it was This was precisely the moment that the Small Business Administration's disaster loan program was made for. Low interest loans to help businesses reopen, to help home owners rebuild, to give the American people a fighting chance. But on October fifteenth, twenty twenty four, Right in the midst of this crisis, the SBA announced that its disaster loan account was empty, exhausted, gone. It couldn't approve new loans, it couldn't disburse money to people who were waiting. That lasted for more than two months while Congress scrambled to act. Two months for families sleeping in FEMA trailers, for small businesses who had just enough hope left to fill out an application, and wait. Now here's the part I think for all of us who believe in accountability, and in this committee I know we do, this lapse was not inevitable. It was not caused by some unprecedented force of nature or disaster beyond imagination. It was caused by preventable failures. I think the lesson of twenty twenty four is simple. Disaster response cannot be O PEG and reactive. It must be transparent and accountable. The SBA didn't meet its requirements, and by the time the authorizing committees found out that there was a problem, there was no time left to act. You know, in New Hampshire, we are not strangers to disasters, severe flooding, northeasters, ice storms that shut down roads and destroy infrastructure. Our farmers up in our Upper Valley, our producers up in our North Country, our growers in the Monadnock region, they face weather events that can wipe out literally generations When disaster strikes, SBA's disaster loans are often genuinely the first and only lifeline available. It's the difference between rebuilding and closing for good. So our bipartisan bill will make sure that America's small businesses, our family farmers, never have to face a moment where they're told, we're sorry, we ran out of money, and nobody told Congress in time to fix it. So here's what our bill does. It requires the SBA to report monthly on the status of the disaster loan account, not when disaster has been declared, but continuously, so that here in Congress we always have current information. It requires the SBA to alert us here in Congress within twenty-four hours when the account falls below ten percent of the ten year average. And it requires separate budget line items so that we can see exactly what's being requested and and why. It also directs the Government Accountability Office to conduct two, what I think are important studies that will examine administrative changes that were made to the disaster loan program in twenty twenty-three and twenty-twenty-four. Changes that may have contributed to the faster than expected depletion of the account. We've gotta understand what happened. We need the data. We need the accountability. And there's one more provision I wanna highlight in this bill. Until the SBA administrator submits the required monthly r- report to Congress, The administrator cannot engage in official travel. So this may sound like a small thing, but I think it's a meaningful accountability mechanism to be sure that we've got the information we need. This, at the end of the day, reporting what we learned in twenty twenty four, this is not a bureaucratic box checking exercise. It is a basic obligation of an executive branch agency to be accountable to the legislative branch and the people we represent. So I'm very proud to be leading this bipartisan bill. I'm really grateful for the work of all of our colleagues uh to make sure that when Americans need help in the midst and after a disaster, we are ready with funds in the account and with Congress fully informed. So I urge my colleagues to support the amendment in the nature of a substitute and the underlying bill. And with that, uh, I yield back.

General Leidy yields back. Uh, are there any other members who wish to be recognized for a statement on this bill? I now recognize the uh uh ranking member uh to speak on the bill and the amendment.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, I support HR forty-two thirty-eight, the Disaster Loan Accountability and Reform Act as amended. The SBA disaster loan program which provides long-term, low-interest, direct loans to homeowners, renters, small business owners, and non-profit after declared disasters, plays a critical role in the federal government's dis- uh, direct disaster response efforts. The SBA failed to properly alert Congress of its impending budget shortfall which led to a lapse in program funding and a prolonged delay in much needed relief to affected communities. While the SBA cannot effectively address our changing climate, it can do a better job at updating Congress about the status of the disaster loan account. That is why I support HR forty-two thirty-eight, the Disaster Loan Accountability and Reform Act, or DILARA. This bill requires common sense reporting from the SBA and transparency from the White House when they submit their annual budget request. It also requires the administrator to notify Congress when program funds run when program funds run low and directs the GAO to study how past rulemaking has affected the speed of that process. This bill adds transparency to the process to ensure disaster affected communities never have to face elapse again. I thank all the sponsor, including Miss Guz- uh, Gudlander, Miss Kinheins and Mister uh muser and for their work this is a very important uh legislation i i know because i lived through sandy in new york and uh maria when it struck puerto rico this is a very important uh disaster program and it's one of the most important programs you know there is nothing more important that when natural disaster strike to immediately uh uh work to make families whole that are suffering and even so many lost their lives. So thank you for the work uh that you've done in a bipartisan way.

General Adio is back. Does anyone wish to offer an amendment? All right, seeing none, the question now occurs on the adoption of the amendment. in the nature of a substitute to hr forty two thirty eight all in favor say aye

aye

all opposed say no in the opinion of the chair the ayes have it the amendment in the nature of a substitute to hr forty two thirty eight is adopted the question now comes on order in hr forty two thirty eight as amended to be reported favorably to the house all those in favor say aye all those opposed say no in the chair the ayes have it hr forty two thirty eight is agreed to.

Mister Chairman, a request for a recorded vote.

A member uh has asked for a recorded vote, a vote has been requested and a roll call vote is ordered. Persuading to Committee Rule thirteen and House Rule eleven, further proceedings on the bill are postponed. The committee now moves to the consideration of H R eighty-eight ninety-seven the oversight and transparency for small business Certifications Act of twenty twenty six, introduced by Representatives Olszewski and Weed. The Clerk shall report the bill.

H R eighty eight seventy nine, a bill to amend the small business

Without objection, H R eighty er H R eighty eight seventy nine is considered as read and open for amendment. I now recognize uh Representative Olszewski from the great state of Maryland for a statement on the bill.

Thank you uh very much, Mister Chairman, Ranking Member Velazquez, and to all of my colleagues here today. I wanna begin by thanking Representative Weed for his partnership and his leadership on this important effort. I'm proud to help lead this bipartisan bill because I believe that we can, and we should always work harder to ensure that federal programs work efficiently for the American people. Congress created the three small business contracting programs this bill impacts. The Women-Owned Small Business Program, the Historically Underutilized Business Zone Program, and the Service-Disabled Veteran-Owned Small. business program. These programs help our government recruit and retain quality small businesses while also leveling the playing field for them to enter, compete, and to have success in the federal market. In the past years, each program has had its own on-line certification platform and designated staff within the SBA's office of government contracting and business development. As a result, small businesses had far different certification experiences. For example, in twenty twenty three, service disabled veterans seeking an SBA certification were served by twenty dedicated SBA staff and fifty-four contractors who processed their applications in about three weeks. The women-owned small business program applicants, however, were served by eight SBA staff and two contractors, resulting in a backlog of roughly seven thousand applicants, with an average wait time of almost a year. Ensuring fairness and promoting efficiency for all small business owners is an overarching goal of all members of this committee. Our bill will require the SBA to provide greater detail in their budget justification documents, regarding their certification processes, infrastructure, and timelines, as well as participants, backlogs, and wait times for small business applicants. That will allow this committee to more effectively conduct oversight and to identify issues with the certification process, and SBA portals in a more timely manner for American small business owners across this country. I urge my colleagues to support this legislation, and I yield back.

Gentleman yields back. Uh, I now recognize Representative Weed from the great state of Wisconsin for a statement on the bill.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, our bipartisan legislation, HR eight eight seven nine, the oversight and transparency for small business certifications act, SBA to report on the certifications and contract awards for its small business programs. SBA programs, including the service-disabled veteran-owned small businesses programs, are important to ensure all entrepreneurs are given a chance to succeed. By improving the transparency of programs like these, Congress can ensure that the appropriate measures are taken to certify or decertify firms to help root out waste, fraud, and abuse. I am proud to co-lead this bill alongside my friend and colleague,

Gentleman yields back. Uh, are there any other members who wish to be recognized for a statement on the bill? All right, seeing none, I'd like to recognize the ranking member to speak on the bill.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate the work of my colleagues, Representatives Osh- Shofsky. and we to move this bill forward. Our committee's ability to assist small businesses depends in part on our ability to conduct appropriate and effective oversight of SBA. Unfortunately, we do not always receive sufficient or timely responses to inquiries and what should be routine reporting is often delayed sometimes past the point of relevancy. For example, under the previous administration, both Chairman Williams and I raised concerns about whether the committee had a full picture of the unified certification platform's challenges and I frequently heard from women-owned businesses about the backlog of WASBE applications. Currently, SBA is not for coming with any information, they do not respond to specific requests, nor provide regular reports and data that have been routinely provided in the past. This bill will ensure we have consistent information on one of the SBA's core missions, certifying small business federal contractors. Current and aspiring government contractors already face challenges in the federal market, unnecessary time or added hurdles, just do not get a certification before they can even compete for contracting opportunities, should not be one of them. I urge my colleagues to vote yes, and I give back my time.

Channel eight heels back. Thank you. I now recognize myself to speak in support of this legislation. As the Trump administration continues to focus on government efficiency and eliminating waste, fraud, and abuse within the federal programs, Congress needs the necessary information about where these programs are succeeding and where they need improvement. H R eighty eight seventy nine, the Oversight and Transportation or Transparency for Small Business Certifications Act of twenty twenty six, requires the SBA to annually report to Congress on certification activities across the SBA's small business contracting programs. This bill would provide uh Congress with detailed information and certification, granted or denied, a Aye. Aye. Aye. Say aye. hr eighty eight seventy nine is agreed

mr. chairman ask for a recorded vote

recorded vote has been requested a roll call vote is ordered persuaded to committee rule thirteen and house rule eleven further proceedings on this bill are postponed the committee now moves to consideration of hr uh uh eight twenty six the covid fraud transparency act of twenty twenty five introduced by representative latimer and uh uh representative bean Representative Mifumi and myself and the Clerk will report the bill.

H R eight twenty-six, a bill to require

Without objection, the H R uh eight tw- uh twenty-six is considered as read and open for amendment. I have an amendment uh in the nature of a substitute at the desk. The amendment has been distributed in advance. Uh, the Clerk will report the amendment.

Amendment in the nature of a substitute to H R eight twenty-six.

Without objection, the amendment will be considered as read and will serve as base text for the purpose of further amendment. I now recognize myself for remarks on the bill and the amendment. First, I'd like to thank Representative Latimer, uh, Bean and Mifumi for introducing this bill with me last year.

Mm.

The SBOA IG s- estimates that, uh, roughly two hundred billion dollars in potentially fraudulent relief funds uh were discharged through COVID-19 relief programs. Earlier this year, the SBA under the Trump administration referred more than five hundred sixty-two thousand suspected fraudulent loans totaling approximately twenty two billion dollars to treasury for further action, and that is a disturbing amount to anyone. Even the five years following the pandemic, we are still working uh to highlight the need for continued transparency and oversight of fraud investigations and recovery efforts.

He said.

HRE twenty six, the COVID Fraud Transparency Act of twenty twenty five recognizes the importance of remaining uh uh res- and responsive and informed as those cases continue to be investigated and resolved. By implementing more comprehensive reporting and oversight requirements Congress can better understand uh the methods and categories of fraud that occurred during the pandemic, thereby stre- therefore strengthening safeguards to protect taxpayer dollars in future emergency relief programs. I urge my colleagues to vote yes on H R eight twenty-six. I yield back. I now recognize Mister Latimer from the great state of New York to speak on the bill.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, and I want to express my appreciation for your leadership uh on this bill, along with uh colleagues uh, Congress members uh Bean and Fumi. This bill is bipartisan effort to deal with the disbursement of SBA loan products, at which we saw during the COVID-19 pandemic total one point two trillion dollars in an uh economic injury disaster loan and paycheck protection program. That was a significant amounts of dollars that affected small businesses that were adversely impacted by the crisis. But as always, when there's any federal program, there are bad actors. And so the SBA Inspector General, in coordination with other federal agencies, has to work and to investigate those cases of fraud and hold those bad actors accountable. This Congress provides, uh, in this bill, Inspector General's with the funding and the resources necessary to combat fraud. And I'm very proud to, uh, co-lead this with Chairman Williams and his leadership. This bill requires the SBA

Uh, gentlemen, yields back, are there any of the members who wish to be recognized uh for a statement?

We need to make sure I never forget.

All right, seeing none, I'd like to recognize the ranking member to speak on the bill.

Thank you, Mister Chairman. I appreciate your efforts alongside Mister Lautimer to enhance reporting on pandemic fraud. The COVID Fraud Transparency Act will further enable this committee to carry out its oversight responsibilities effectively. During the global COVID-19 pandemic, the Small Business Administration stepped in and served as critical lifeline to small businesses. The SBA distributed more than one point two trillion dollars in economic aid and executed fourteen years of lending in fourteen days. In an effort to disburse funds quickly, SBA weakened and removed its internal controls. Organized crime syndicates, transnational gangs, and other criminals explotated this weakened controls and stole billions from the American people. The legislation we are considering today will provide the committee with better data. HRA twenty-six will require the SBA Inspector General to send periodic reports to this committee for the next two years with detailed information regarding the number of fraud cases and the types of fraud as well as the number of cases, that has been resolved. In closing, I want to underscore the importance of continued oversight and transparency as we work to safeguard taxpayer resources and strengthen accountability. The single most effective way to combat fraud is to provide full funding for the Inspector General. And so that he has the infrastructure he needs in order to conduct the type of oversight that is important and unnecessary. We don't know when the next um pandemic will strike. We have to be ready and we need to learn the lessons of the past. I urge my colleagues to support H R eight twenty-six as amended and I yield back.

General Leighton yields back and thank you. And does anyone wish to offer an amendment? Seeing none, the uh question now occurs on the adoption of the amendment and the nature of its substitute.

Aye.

All those opposed say no. Uh, in the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it. Uh, the amendment in the nature of the of a substitute to H R eight twenty six is adopted. The question now occurs on ordering H R eight twenty six's amendment to be re- uh ported favorably to the house. All those in favor say aye. All those opposed say no. In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it. And H R twen eight twenty six is amended, is agreed to.

Mister Chairman, I ask for a recorded vote.

Member asks for a recorded vote, and a recorded vote has been requested. Uh, a roll call uh vote is ordered, so pursuant to Committee Rule thirteen and Rule eleven, further proceedings on this bill are postponed. The committee now moves to consideration of H R eight eight eight O, the Small Business Cybersecurity Assistance Evaluation Act of twenty twenty six,

H R eight eight eight zero, a bill to require

Oh, without objection, uh, H R eight eight eight O is considered as read and open, uh, for amendment. I now recognize the fast-moving Miss Simon from the great state of California to speak on this legislation.

Um, well thank you, Chair. I cannot believe I made it. Uh, thank you, uh, also our ranking member Velazquez. Um, and, and thank you to, uh, Congressman, my colleague, Bresnahan, uh, for co-leading with me in this extremely important, I would say, critical bipartisan effort. I'm proud to speak in support of the small business cyber security assistance act. You know, we know that small businesses are relying more and more on digital tools to reach customers and access capital. In fact, The United States Chamber of Commerce estimates that ninety-nine percent of small businesses use at least one technology platform. And at the same time, cyber threats are becoming more sophisticated and damaging, especially for the smallest businesses that are most likely to not be able to recover from these attacks. From phishing to ransomware, these attacks to insurance fraud and data breaches, Small businesses are increasingly being targeted by bad and criminal actors. For a small business owner, a single attack can mean not just lost revenue, but interrupted operations or even closure. We've seen this. Our bill is simple. It would direct the government accountability office to conduct a comprehensive assessment of the cyber security threats and vulnerabilities facing our small businesses. The GAO would also identify existing federal programs, initiatives, and capital resources available to help entrepreneurs prepare for, and mitigate, and defra- defend themselves every single day against these attacks. Now, this bill is about ensuring that we have the best data available to craft effective policies that protect small businesses from these attacks. Small businesses drive innovation. They create jobs, I'm speaking to the choir here, and support communities in every corner of this country, especially as artificial intelligence continues to evolve. We must make sure that small businesses are not left behind, that they are not vulnerable, that they are equipped and ready to defend themselves. And I wanna thank Chairman Williams and Ranking Member Velazquez, uh, for including this bill in today's mark-up and for their

The gentlelady yields back. Uh, now I recognize Mister Bresnahan from the great state of Pennsylvania to speak on this legislation.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, and thank you to the ranking member. I rise today alongside Representative Simon in support of the Small Business Cybersecurity Assistance Evaluation Act. of twenty twenty six. This bipartisan legislation directs the GAO to study the effectiveness of existing federal cyber security assistance resources available to small businesses, and identify where improvements are needed. In the United States, small businesses are two hundred and ten percent more likely to experience cyber incidents compared to larger companies a challenge Congress can no longer afford to overlook. By evaluating gaps in current federal programs, this bill will help insure small businesses have better access to the tools, training and resources they need to defend themselves against cyber attacks. As cyber threats continue to evolve, our support system for small businesses must evolve as well. I strongly urge my colleagues to support this legislation. Thank you, Mister Chairman. I yield back.

Gentleman yields back. Are there any o- any other members who wish to be recognized for a statement? Seeing none, I'd like to recognize the ranking member to speak on the bill.

Thank you, Mister Chairman. I thank uh Representative Simon and Bresnahan for their leadership on this important issue. According to the US Chamber of Commerce, ninety-nine percent of small businesses use at least one technology platform, with most using at least four. Yet only a quarter of small businesses use cyber security and malware detection tools. That is because small businesses like the time, skills and resources to adopt effective cyber security measures. compared to their larger competitors. Cybercriminals are well aware of these vulnerabilities and exploit them at at mainstream expense. A single cyber attack could pose an existential threat to a small business. The federal government has multiple cyber security resources for small businesses, but they are spread across agencies rather than provided by the expert in small business outreach, the SBA. the Small Business Cybersecurity Assistance Evaluation Act will direct the GAOs to study and report to Congress the state of further small business cybersecurity assistance and make recommendations to optimize their impact and use by Main and used by Main Street entrepreneurs. I urge all colleagues to vote yes. With that, I yield back.

Good morning, lady. Heals back. Uh, thank you, and I now recognize myself to speak in support of this legislation. Small businesses are increasingly vulnerable to cyber security threats that negatively affect the business operations, profit margins, and reputation. From uh ransomware to fraud, bad actors uh have been targeted in Main Street and yet many businesses lack the resources necessary to defend themselves. Many federal agencies have cyber security assistance programs, tools and resources for small businesses, but these efforts are often difficult to navigate under utilized or outdated usually and that is what hr eighty eight eighty uh aims to address this bill will help expose where uh cyber security assistance is lacking hr eighty eight eighty the small business cyber security assistance evaluation act of twenty twenty six directs the government accountability office to evaluate the cyber attacks uh threatening small businesses and the effectiveness of federal programs in preventing them now this bill would also require the gao to evaluate gao to evaluate effectiveness, coordination, and awareness of existing federal cyber security assistance programs for small businesses. Uh, the legislation takes a practical approach by eval- evaluating what works and what does not ensuring the small businesses have the tools and information needed to protect themselves. So I urge my colleagues to vote yes on H R eighty eight eighty and I yield back. Does anyone wish to offer an amendment? Seeing none, the question now occurs on ordering H R eighty eight eighty, reported failure to the house. Uh, all in favor say aye.

Aye. Aye.

All opposed say no. N- in uh the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it, and H R eighty eight eighty is agreed to.

Mister Chairman.

Yes sir, what purpose do you uh seek?

Uh, uh, ask for a recorded vote.

A member has asked for a recorded vote and a recorded vote has been requested. A roll call vote is ordered and persuaded to committee rule thirteen and house rule eleven further proceedings on this bill are opposed. Uh the committee now moves to consideration of H R eighty eight eighty one, the SBA AI utilization act of twenty twenty six introduced by representatives Finstead and Latimer. Uh the clerk will report the bill.

H R eighty eight eighty one, a bill to amend the small

Without objection, H R eighty eight eighty one is considered as read and open for amendment. I now recognize Mister Finstead from the great state of Minnesota uh to speak on this legislation.

Thank you, Chairman Williams. I'm happy to speak today in support of my bill, the SBA Artificial Intelligent U- Intelligence Utilization Act. Uh, I also serve on the Ag Committee and AI on the Ag Committee means something very different so I'm gonna make sure I have my talking points uh right here for the SBA. The artificial intelligence and machine learning continue to revolutionize the way businesses conduct themselves, and it's important that the federal government, including the Small Business Administration, look into the benefits that can be gained from incorporating these technologies. There is an opportunity here. AI could be a useful tool for the SBA to improve its information processing capabilities, ease its administration, and better assist the entrepreneurs and small businesses of America. However, like any new technology, it raises questions about transparency, reliability, oversight, and risk. This bill will simply mandate that the SBA report to Congress annually about the use of AI in machine learning by the SBA. what benefits or risks may result from this technology and how the SBA assesses the appropriateness, effectiveness, and the value of using these technologies. This is a common sense oversight measure. It does not mandate the use of AI, nor does it prohibit innovation. Instead, it ensures Congress has the visibility into these new tools that are being used, and whether they are helping the SBA better fulfill its mission for small businesses. As technology evolves, Congress has the responsibility to ensure

I now recognize Mister Latimer, uh, from the great state of New York, uh, to speak on this legislation.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, and, uh, thank you, Congressman Finstad, for your leadership, uh, on this bill. It's bipartisan, common sense. bill. It reflects that uh we as a nation are dealing with the growth of AI with potential uses that carry great benefit potential benefit and great potential risks and there's questions of accuracy and data privacy that that affect all of us uh across the aisle on both sides of the aisle. Uh I'm pleased to co-lead this bill with Congressman Finstad under the leadership of Chairman uh Williams and then also uh ranking uh uh per uh individual Nidia Velasquez. This bill directs SBA to report on the steps the agency can take to identify and manage the benefits and risks posed by these AI use cases and uh we think this is an important step for our small businesses uh I support the bill I hope we all will support the bill, and Mister Chairman, I yield back.

Uh, gentlemen, it yields back, are there any of the members who wish to be recognized for a statement? All right, seeing none, I'd like to recognize the ranking member to speak on this bill.

Thank you, Mister Chairman. I commend uh representatives Finstad and Latimer for their leadership on this bill. In October of twenty twenty three, New York City launched a first of its kind artificial intelligence chatbot. It was meant to answer the questions of entrepreneurs about opening small businesses local small business services regulatory compliance, and business planning and strategy. On day one I spotted issues with the accuracy of the chatbots' outputs and its ability to answer questions. In response, I led a letter to the White House urging the consideration of common sense safeguards in any AI tool used by the federal agencies. Mr. Chairman, I ask unanimous consent to insert the letter into the record.

So, agreed.

According to an investigation by a local news outlet, my concerns were very real. The investigation determined that the chatbot was consistently hallucinating and encouraging small business owners to break laws and regulations which led it uh to it uh be shut down. AI has the incredible potential to revolutionize the way the government works, but it also holds incredible risk. As the committee overseeing the SBA, we have a duty to ensure the agency considers and uses these tools responsibly and effectively. This bill directs the SBA to report annually on its AI use, the benefits and risks, and effective risk mitigation measures. With that, I urge all colleagues to vote yes and I yield back.

Thank you. Uh, I now recognize uh my myself to speak on the bill. uh businesses across the country are adopting uh artificial intelligence, which is reshaping how they operate, detect fraud, improve customer service and process information, and there's no reason why the SBA cannot also benefit from these efficiencies. And the SBA artificial uh intelligence utilization act of twenty twenty six is forward-looking bill introduced by my colleagues representative Finstead and Latimer H R eighty eight eighty one, requires the SBA's report on how it is using AI to modernize its technology and improve operations. As the federal government works to prevent fraud in taxpayer dollars, AI tools can help the SBA better identify uh suspicious activity, detect improper payments, and strengthen oversight of the agency programs. By reporting the SBA's use of artificial intelligence, uh this bill will help promote a smarter, more efficient government while supporting innovation uh, protecting taxpayers' dollars and improving uh services for Main Street America. So I urge my colleagues to vote yes on H R eighty eight eighty one. I yield back. Does anyone wish to offer an amendment? Seeing none, the uh the question now occurs on ordering H R eighty eight eighty one reported in favor to the House. All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

All those opposed say no. In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it. H R eighty

Mister Chair.

Yes, sir.

I'd ask for recorded vote.

All right, a member has asked for a recorded vote. Recorded vote has been requested. A roll call vote is ordered. Swing to committee rule thirteen and house uh uh rule eleven. Further proceedings on this bill now are postponed. The committee now moves to consideration of H R eighty eighty eight eighty two, the Main Street Competes Act, introduced by Representative Skelton and Schmidt. Uh, the clerk will report the bill.

H. R. eighty-eight eighty-two, a bill to amend a small

Without objection, H. R. eighty-eight eighty-two is considered as read and open for amendment. I r- now recognize Ms. Galton from the great state of Michigan to speak on this legislation.

Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman. I am so thrilled to speak in support of my bill, the Main Street Competes Act. While small businesses are the true powerhouses of our economy, they're often left to compete against a handful of large corporations. Without a level playing field, this can lead to higher prices for consumers and small businesses alike, not to mention an increase in predatory pricing and other exclusionary practices. When industry consolidation goes too far, innovation is stifled and markets become difficult for small businesses to enter. The price we all pay for unfair monopolistic conduct is real, and it needs to be addressed. My bill would do just that, by directing the SBA's Office of Advocacy to work with the FTC and the Department of Justice to examine the gaps in our antitrust laws. Our Office of Advocacy is Main Street's voice within the federal government, and it's only right that they're in lockstep with our nation's top antitrust enforcement agencies. This bill will not only enhance collaboration between these agencies on behalf of small businesses, it will also require advocacy to submit a report to Congress detailing antitrust violations reported by small businesses. By ensuring Main Street has a seat at the table, we can build an economy that creates opportunity for everyone. I want to thank my colleague, Representative Schmidt, for working with me on this legislation. I strongly urge my colleagues to support this bill.

Gentlelady Heal's back. I now recognize Mister Schmidt from the great state of Kansas to speak on this legislation.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I want to thank my colleague, uh, for her, uh, long-standing leadership on this issue. I'm glad to join in this, uh, bipartisan effort this year. Um. The only thing I would add to the conversation, I worked a little bit on the antitrust enforcement side, uh both under state law and also under federal law, and and one of the things that's challenging uh is that these investigations and enforcement actions, when appropriate, they can be very resource intensive and historically uh they are focused uh very much consumer focused matters. We we don't want them to be less consumer focused but we do want to recognize that uh small businesses are a critical player who have a stake in the outcome. of antitrust enforcement and investigation decisions, uh and in the deployment of scarce resources in those actions, uh and the reporting requirements in this bill will insure that small business has a voice at the table, and that this committee and our colleagues have the information that we need to make appropriate policy judgments to be sure that those marketplaces that benefit all of us when they're competitive um uh are properly served from the vantage point of small business as well as the vantage point of consumers. and the vantage point of overall public policy and and structured markets. So I wanna thank my colleague for her work on this. Uh thank you, Mister Chairman, for scheduling this and I encourage all of our colleagues to support this measure. I yield back.

Gentleman yields back. Uh are there any of the members who wish to be recognized for a statement?

Mister Chairman, if I may?

Yes ma'am.

Uh I wanna just say I I wanna say that I strongly support this bill. I'm really grateful to my colleagues for their leadership on it. As someone who came to this committee from the Department of Justice, where my job was to enforce our federal antitrust laws. This this piece of legislation is near and dear to my heart. What I saw on the front lines of the fight to enforce these laws which for far too long have not been enforced is consolidation like never before across our economy we see it from the big ag corporations who are screwing family farmers the mega-merge grocery chains that are squeezing family-owned independent grocers, I just sat with many of them a a few minutes ago before this hearing. We we see what consolidation is doing, and I am a proud capitalist, but I'm a capitalist who really believes that capitalism without competition is not capitalism, it is a form of exploitation that is making business impossible for our small businesses. So this this is a common sense bill uh that really will fill gaps. bill had been law when I served in the Justice Department because when you're in the federal executive branch you can often be far too removed from the communities who you're proud to serve, and this is gonna create the connective tissue that we need between Congress and our antitrust enforcers and ultimately the connective tissue and the information flow that we need from small businesses who are on the front lines of this So I thank my colleagues for their leadership on this bipartisan bill, and I urge all of our colleagues to support this. Thank you and I yield back.

General Lady yields back. Are there any other members who uh wish to be recognized for a statement? All right, seeing none, I'd like to recognize the ranking member to speak on this bill.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. For the last half century, agencies tasked with maintaining a competitive environment and a level playing field have neglected to enforce the laws on the books. As a result, our economy has grown increasingly consolidated. One study has found that seventy-five percent of industry have become more concentrated since the nineteen the mid-nineteen nineties. Firms who garner market power often use that power against their competitors in the form of anti-competitive practices like price discrimination or self-preferencing. These practices increase the barrier to entry for small firm or use their software as a digital tool for accessing market. The SBA is a critical part of our nation's pro-competition toolkit, supporting small business creation and growth, but it cannot bolster small businesses alone. Strong antitrust informa enforcement has a real role to play in protecting a level playing field for small businesses. This bill makes perfect use of our Office of Advocacy, asking it to monitor the actions of other agencies and how their actions affect small businesses while leveraging their economic analysis to help Congress understand the structural issues small firms face when competing in the market. and developing recommendations for how we can address those issue. I want to thank representative Schulten and Schmicht for their work on this bill. I encourage a yes vote and I yield back.

Gentlelady yields back. Thank you, and I now recognize myself to speak on this bill. Uh, competition is a key uh uh uh tenet of capitalism, it allows c- consumers to choose with dollars between their business, that will offer the best product, price or service. uh without appropriate competition, innovation in the U S economy will suffer. And H R eighty eight eighty two, the Main Street Compeats Act aligns with the SBA's mission to preserve free, competitive enterprise and strengthen the small, the overall economy of our nation by requiring the Department of Justice and the Federal Trade Commission uh to provide data on the SBA office of advocacy on antitrust, complaints, investigations and enforcement actions involving small business. It also detects advocacy to uh eval- evaluate uh uh these trends and provide recommendations to Congress on ways to improve competition and address harmful anti-competitive conduct. This bill takes a targeted, data-driven approach to better understand those competitive pressures and determine whether current anti-trust enforcement efforts a- uh adequately protect small businesses so this bill uh will insure that policymakers have the information they need to support a competitive marketplace for Main Street businesses can grow and can succeed. So I urge my colleagues to vote uh yes on H R eighty eight eighty two and I yield back. Now does anyone wish to offer an amendment? All right, uh uh see seeing none, the question now occurs on ordering H R eighty eight eighty two reported in favor to the house. All those in favor say aye. All those opposed say no. In the opinion of the chair, the ayes have it, and uh H R uh member will seek recognition, M- Mr. Chairman? what is it?

Mr. Chairman, I request a recorded vote.

A recorded vote has been requested, a roll call vote is ordered. Persuading to Committee Rule thirteen and House Rule eleven, further proceedings on this bill now are postponed. The committee now moves its uh moves to consideration of H R nine fifteen, the Small Business Technical Act of twenty twenty five, introduced by Representatives Alford, Lee and uh Mervyn, uh with Representative McGarvey. as the committee co-lead. As a clerk report the bill.

H R nine fifteen, a bill to authorize small business.

Without objection, H R nine fifteen is considered as read and open for amendment. I now recognize Mister Alford from the great state of Missouri to speak on this legislation.

Well, thank you, Mister Chair and Ranking Member. Uh. Thank you for excusing my absence from most of this. Uh, we've been across the hall in appropriations mark-up, this This bill is very important to me. Small businesses are the backbone of our economy. They create jobs, they strengthen local communities, and drive innovation across this country. But in today's economy, a small business cannot compete without access to modern technology and digital tools. Whether it's cloud-based accounting software, payroll systems, cyber security protections, inventory management platforms, or emerging AI tools, Technology is no longer a luxury for small businesses. It is essential to ensuring that Main Street keeps up with Wall Street. Unfortunately, Mister Chairman, under the SBA's flagship seven-day loan program, there have been unnecessary ambiguity surrounding whether these types of tools qualify as eligible business expenses. And that uncertainty creates confusion for lenders and limits access to capital for entrepreneurs simply trying to modernize their operations. Well, I am grateful that Administrator Loeffler quickly amended the SBA's standard operation procedure to add clarity to these products that are allowed. It is still important for Congress to do our job and to make sure that such clarity is done with the force of law. The Small Business Technological Advancement Act provides a simple, common fix, common sense fix. Our legislation clarifies that SBA seven A loans may be used for business software, cloud computing services, and other technologies that facilitate business operations, including tools powered by artificial intelligence. This bill does not create a new program and it does not increase the size or scope of the seven A program. It simply updates SBA policy to reflect the realities of today's economy. And it gives small businesses the certainty they need to invest in the tools required to grow and to compete. You know, for many Main Street businesses, technology adoption can mean the difference between expanding or falling behind. A small manufacturer may need software to improve logistics and inventory tracking. A local retailer may rely on cloud-based payment processing and cybersecurity tools. These are practical investments that help small businesses operate smarter and with larger firms that already have access to these resources. Quite simply, at the end of the day, this bill is about making sure that America's small businesses are not left behind in an increasingly digital economy. And if we want small businesses to succeed, which we all do here, to create jobs, to remain competitive, we need to make sure that federal programs keep pace with modern business practices. So, Mister Chairman, I urge my colleagues to support this bipartisan legislation, and I look forward to continuing to work with this committee to advance it. Thank you so much, and I yield back.

Gentleman yields back, and I recogn recognize Mister McGarvey from the great state of Kentucky to speak on this legislation.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, and thank you, Mister Chairman, ranking member Velazquez, for including your uh, this bill and for your support in this mark-up. Um, yeah, look, a lot has changed. in the last twenty five years. Uh, my kids have never seen a phone book. In fact, when they come here, one of the things they like to do is see the phones that are still in the the cloakroom because they're not used to seeing a landline either. We can't pretend that technology uh is is going to take over how we operate our businesses. Technology has taken over and changed how we operate our businesses. And what we have to do is make sure that the rules and regulations keep up with that technology. That's why I am proud to work with my friend, uh Congressman Alford from the great state of Missouri, on this smart piece of legislation. The Small Business Technological Act, it is just a common sense step towards ensuring that small businesses are able to take on modern day problems with modern day solutions. This bipartisan bill clarifies that small businesses may continue to use seven A loans to finance business software cloud computing services and other technologies that support their day-to-day operations. And I say continue because we wanna make sure they can continue to do this because this works. We have seen how successful making technological programming and eligible use of funds in the seven A program has been. And I fully support this bill giving small businesses the certainty they need to continue doing so. Small businesses are the backbone of the American economy. If we want them to stay that way, then we're going to have to make sure we are doing what we can to put them in a position to succeed. This bill continues to do that. It's why I support it, I encourage my colleagues to support it, and I yield back.

Gentleman yields back. Are there any of the members who wish to be recognized for a statement? Seeing none, I'd like to recognize the ranking member to speak on the bill.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, I just want to thank Representative and Lee for their work on this matter and sent a message to the financial institutions that partnered with SBA and SBA that the intent is clear. The seven eight loans can be used to finance digital tools. And with this change, it is my hope, we will track an increase in its usage regarding digital tools. urge my colleagues to support this bill and yield back.

Uh, gentlelady yields back, I now recognize myself to speak on the bill. I'd like to thank my friend Representative Alford, who introduced this bill earlier uh this Congress. From inventory and payroll to uh customer service and payment processing, modern business software is essential to the daily operation of Main Street businesses across this country. In H R nine fifteen, the Small Business Technology Act of twenty twenty five, provides an incredibly important clarification and removes any amb ambiguity by explicitly permitting small businesses to use SBA seven A loans to purchase and upgrade technology, systems and business software, including those that utilize artificial intelligence to support their daily operations. This vital step to allow small business to fully utilize the SBA's flagship seven A loan program is another way to make uh sure that Main Street does not get left behind. Uh, this common sense uh clarification will provide mainstream with financing needed to operate, modernize, and compete in the modern economy. So I urge my colleagues to vote yes on H R nine fifteen and and yield back. Now, does anyone wish to uh offer an amendment? All right, seeing none, the uh question now occurs on ordering H R nine fifteen reported favorably to the House. All those in favor say aye.

Aye. Aye.

All those opposed say no. In the pain of the chair, the ayes have it. And H R nine fifteen is agreed to.

Mister Chair.

Member seeks recognition. For what purpose?

I ask for a recorded vote, please.

Recorded vote has been uh requested. A roll call vote is ordered. Persuading to committee rule thirteen and house rule eleven. Further proceedings on this bill are postponed. Committee now moves to consideration of H R twenty eight O four, the protecting small business com- competitions act. twenty twenty five led by ranking member by the ranking member and myself and the clerk will report the bill.

H R twenty eight zero four, a bill to amend the small

Without objection, H R twenty eight O four is considered as read and open for amendment. The bill's sponsor, ranking member Velasquez has an amendment in the nature of a substitute at the desk. Uh the amendment has been distributed in advance. The clerk will report the amendment.

Amendment in the nature of a substitute to H R twenty

Without objection, the amendment will be considered read and will serve as the base text for the purpose of further amendment. I now recognize the ranking member uh to speak on her legislation and the amendment.

Thank you, Chairman Williams. I appreciate your work to uh your work to reach an agreement on this bill, and thank you to Representative Cisneros and Chairman Williams for your support and efforts to move it to move it forward. When the administration began a review of the government's procurements, uh regulations last year retaining and codifying a critical small business requirement known as the rule of two became a top priority the rule of two is the foundation for small business participation in the industrial base. It is simple and effective. A contract must be set aside for a small business only competition if there is an expectation that small businesses will beat and can do the work. This long established policy was put in place in recognition that small firms were required to compete against large corporations, it would be unlikely they will ever win a contract. With the rule of two in place, well over one hundred billion dollars in award is awarded annually to small businesses through contracts set aside for small business competitions. In fiscal year twenty twenty-four alone, seventy-two billion dollars was awarded through general small business set-asides. That does not include contracts awarded through one of SBA procurement programs, which my legislation protects and enables. I want to be clear about why we need to pass my bill and what it does and does and doesn't do. Small government contractors face an increasingly hostile further market place. As consolidation puts more opportunities out of reach for small firms, we need to have policies in place to ensure contracts that can be performed by small businesses are actually awarded to small businesses. The Protecting Small Business Competition Act retains one of these key policies and puts into law a current regulatory requirement. It does it does not expand the rule of two past its current application. We do not require all contracts to be awarded based on competition or override mandatory sourcing contracting officer discretion choice of vehicle and so forth. We are preserving the current process that triggers a small business competition. That is why there is a strong support among the small business community. Hundreds of firms and organizations are urging support for my bill, and I asked unanimous consent to insert letters into the record, Mister uh Chairman.

So move.

When it was clear the rule of two was in jeopardy last year, the small business community rallied, made their voices heard, and secured its extension. We need to uh to do our jobs now and codify it. I urge all my colleagues to vote yes. And I yield back.

A gentlelady yields back. I now recognize myself to speak on this bill. For decades, the rule of two has been one of the most important safeguards to ensure small businesses can fairly compete in the federal marketplace and the industrial base. And for so many small businesses, especially uh service disabled veterans, these contracting opportunities are critical to creating jobs, growing their business and contributing their service to their country. H R twenty eight O four, the Protecting Small Business Competitions Act, as amended as a bipartisan bill, that codifies the rule of two into law. Uh, to be clear, the rule of two was implemented in regulation over forty years ago, and this bill does not change the current procurement process.

Oh yes.

It's an important point that I really want to uh to highlight. And the Trump administration reaffirmed the importance of this policy for small businesses by preserving the rule of two in the revolutionary far overhaul, uh restoring certain certainty back to uh small businesses that rely on it most. This bill guarantees that contracts above the simplified acquisition threshold must be set aside for small businesses whenever a contracting officer expects at least two qualified small businesses to compete. Uh, this bill, as amended, mirrors the administration's effort to restore predictability for small businesses competing in the federal marketplace and reserve opportunities for Main Street job creators innovators and veteran entrepreneurs. So over three hundred forty small businesses and associations, including veterans and tribes, support this legislation. So if we move uh this bill to the to the House floor, I'm committed to working alongside the ranking member and all federal contractors to strengthen opportunities uh that small businesses uh well have, ensuring uh outside organizations are not unintentionally impacted by this policy.

Yeah.

Now I'd like to thank the ranking member uh for uh working with me on this bill and that to protect small business uh success. I urge my colleagues to vote yes on HR twenty eight O four and I yield back. Are there any other members who wish to be recognized for a statement?

Mister Chairman, I wish to be recognized.

Now I recognize Mister Cisneros uh to speak on this bill and the amendment.

Thank you Mister Chairman, and I prou- I'm proud to stand with UN ranking member Velasquez and hundreds of small businesses and stakeholder groups across the country to safeguard small businesses and protect their right to compete for government contracts. I applaud the leadership and persistence of the ranking member towards codifying the rule of two. The rule of two gives small businesses a fighting chance and prevents large corporations from boxing them out of competition. At a time when our industrial base is shrinking, it is exactly the type of bipartisanship that our small businesses need from Congress to support the continued access and entry into the federal market and to compete for federal contracts. We heard as much at our contracting and infrastructure subcommittee hearing, where one of the witness put it bluntly. "It has been such a priority for sup- our small businesses that I had to ask the SP administrator about it only the only time she joined our full committee, nearly a year ago." The advocacy of the small business community helped retain the rule of tool in the recent overhaul to the federal acquisition regulations. However, there is a four year sunset provision that makes the future retention of the rule of tool less secure. That is why I urge my colleagues to support H. R. two eight zero four in codifying the rule of two. I yield yield back.

Are there any other members uh who wish to be recognized for a statement? All right uh does anyone wish to offer an amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute? Seeing none, the question now occurs on the adoption of the amendment in the in the nature of a substitute to hr twenty eight O four all those in favor say aye

aye

all those opposed say no

aye

in the opinion of the chair of the eyes have it the amendment uh in the nature of a substitute to hr twenty eight O four is adopted uh the question now occurs on order in hr twenty four as amended to be reported favorably to the house uh all those in favor say aye

aye

all those opposed say no in the opinion of the chair of the eyes have it

Mister Chair.

A member will seek recognition for what purpose?

Ask for a recorded vote.

Uh, ask for a recorded vote. A recorded vote has been requested and a roll call vote is ordered. Persuading to Committee Rule thirteen and House Rule eleven, for uh further proceedings on this bill are now postponed. Uh, the committee now moves uh to consideration of H. R. fifty-four ninety-eight, the Small Business Health Options Awareness Act of twenty twenty-four. Introduced by Representatives Van Duyn, uh, Tenney, and Hearn, and the Clerk who will report the bill.

H R fifty-four ninety-eight, a bill to require the admission

Without objection, H R fifty-four ninety-eight is considered as read and open for amendment. The bill's sponsor, Miss Van Duyn, has an amendment in the nature of the substitute at the desk. The amendment has been distributed in advance. The Clerk will report the amendment.

Amendment in the nature of a substitute to H R fifty-four.

Without objection, the amendment will be considered as read and will serve as base text for the purpose of I now recognize Miss Van Duyn to speak on uh her legislation and the amendment.

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. Small businesses drive innovation, they create jobs, and they strengthen communities across the country, but too often they're forced to navigate a confusing and expensive health care system without clear information about all of the options that are available to them. In North Texas I regularly hear from small business owners who want to provide quality health coverage for their employees, but they simply don't have the time or resources to sort through every possible option while also trying to keep their businesses running. And that's why the Trump administration's creation of individual coverage health reimbursement arrangements or ICRAs was such an important step forward. ICRAs give employers a flexible, tax advantage way to help employees purchase the health coverage that works best for them and their families. They reduce administrative burden on employers, they expand choice for workers, and they create a more modern and affordable approach to employer-sponsored coverage. The problem is not that they don't work, the problem is that many small business owners don't even know that they exist. So my bill, the Small Business Health Options Awareness Act, is a common sense effort to fix that problem by ensuring that the Small Business Administration actively shares information about ICRAS through its district offices, its small business development centers, web sites, social media and other outreach tools already used to communicate with job creators across the country. This legislation does not create a new program or a mandate or a bureaucracy. It simply ensures that small businesses have access to information about an option that could help them provide more affordable and flexible health benefits to their employees. I hope my colleagues on both sides of the aisle can agree that small businesses deserve to know all the tools that are available to help them compete and grow and support their workers and I urge support for this legislation and I yield back.

Gentle la gentle lady yields back. Are there any other members uh who wish to be recognized for a statement.

Right.

Seeing none, I would like to recognize the ranking member uh to speak on the bill and speak on the amendment.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Well, I agree with my colleagues that it's important to provide more information to small businesses so that they can better meet the health care needs of their workers. I unfortunately cannot support this legislation for a number of reasons. First, the bill would require the SBA and the SBDCs to distribute materials only on individual coverage health reimbursement accounts, often referred to as ICRAs. Over half of all Affordable Care Act marketplace employees are small business owners, employees or self-employed. By directing the SBA to provide information only on ICRAS without requiring information on the ACA marketplace, creates a significant gap in the guidance available to small businesses. Many employers rely on the SBA and SBDC as a trusted resource and rep- and presenting only one option, risk limiting their understanding of the full range of choices. To make informed decisions, small businesses need a complete overview of all options available to them. With that said, ICRAs need fixing to truly offer quality health care. ICRAs can be used by employers to discriminate against certain classes of workers by shifting older or sicker employees, for example, into the individual marketplace, which in turn raises premiums and increases overall risks. A Brooklyn Institution analysis found that allowing employers to offer ICRAs on- alone with a group health plan could increase premiums anywhere from sixteen to ninety-three percent. And, if an employee is offered an ICRA, they are not eligible for subsidized marketplace coverage unless their share of the premium is less than ten percent. For many low-wage workers, they will be better off without an ICRA. But simply, it doesn't make sense. And even more baffling, this bill forces SBDCs to spread the word while the president's budget eliminates their funding, and SBA refuses to pay them on time for services rendered. The Colorado SBDC hasn't received their first quarter payment of seven hundred forty-two thousand dollars, which is typically awarded in early February. Because of the delays, services have been cut, employees may be furloughed, and centers may close. Relying on on SBDCs when they are being cut shows a clear lack of understanding of the entire situation at hand. Instead of pushing a partisan devices built, we should be working together to conduct oversight of the SBA and ensure one resource partners our resource partners are getting paid on time for the counseling, counseling services they provide. We can also work together to offer a comprehensive slate of healthcare information to ensure employers and their workers can make informed decisions. To truly help with the affordability crisis, every option should be provided to businesses because doing so could mean the very survival of the operation. And doing so should be a shared priority. Unfortunately, this is not the case. Instead, the Trump administration is building taxpayers to bankroll a billion dollar ballroom and rather than lowering costs and making life better for small businesses, The Trump administration is making life harder and more expensive. They have ripped health care from millions, cut food assistance for kids, veterans and seniors, and raised prices on everything from grocery groceries to utilities. And let's not get started on the price of gas. Republican policies spike premiums during an ongoing affordability crisis, rip health coverage away from millions, of Americans to pay for tax cuts for the rich. And this, this is your plan for health care? The bottom line, this is a messaging bill that won't accomplish anything.

No.

The SBA already has the authority to do it as it chooses.

OK.

In reality, it is just an opportunity for members to talk about health care and give the appearance of taking action. I urge my colleagues to both know and I yield back.

gentlelady yields back. Um, I thank you and I now recognize myself to speak on the bill and the amendment. Uh, one of the biggest challenges facing small business today is the rising cost of providing employee health care benefits. In the first Trump administration individual coverage health reimbursement arrangements known as ICRAs, uh, were made available to employers to offer, uh, flexible tax advantage health insurance coverage by allowing them to reimburse employees for the cost of premiums for their individual health Coverage. Offering flexible, affordable health care insurance plans will increase the attraction of small businesses when competing with larger companies for talent. And even at the state level, lawmakers today are incentivizing small businesses to adopt ICRA's H. R. fifty-four ninety-eight, the Small Business Health Options Awareness Act is a common sense bill that enhances the Trump Administration's efforts to expand af- affordable health care options to small businesses by leveraging existing outreach uh programs to educate uh, small business on how ICRA's offer competitive health benefits, this bill supports the administration's efforts to increase affordability in all sectors by giving employees of small businesses affordable health care options. I urge my colleagues to vote yes on HR fifty-four ninety-eight as amended, and I yield back. Uh, does anyone wish to offer an amendment to the amendment on the nature of a substitute?

I do, Mister Chairman.

Uh, for what purpose, uh, does the gentlelady seek recognition?

I I have an amendment at the desk.

There is an amendment at the desk so we will briefly pause while staff distribute the amendment. familiar K, the uh Clerk will report the amendment.

Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to HR fifty

Without objection, the amendment is considered as read. I now recognize Miss Galton from the great state of Michigan for five minutes on the amendment.

Mister Chairman, thank you so much. Uh, I couldn't agree more with uh your statements. Uh, back home in Michigan too, the number one thing that I hear about when visiting from uh small businesses is their their deep concerns over the costs of health care, especially employee provided health care. Finding the right health insurance can be incredibly complicated. Having the wrong health insurance is costly. Small businesses should have access to every tool. every option available to them and their employees so that there is no question that the Small Business Administration should be playing a role in educating business owners about their coverage. I I like this idea. However, the approach taken in H R fifty-four ninety-eight, the Small Business Health Options Awareness Act, emphasis on options, um is incomplete. The bill would require the SBA to provide information on one and only one health care option the individual coverage health reimbursement accounts or ICHRAs. Through ICHRAs, employers can reimburse their employees for qualified health care costs, while this option may be useful for some employers, it's by no means a silver bullet to the larger problem within our health care system. For example, some individuals who who may qualify for ICHRAs would be ineligible for other health care coverage such as the Affordable Care Act premium tax credits. By requiring the SBA to inform entrepreneurs about this option, at the expense of other coverage plans, this bill pushes a program that won't work for many entrepreneurs. As a member of this committee, we're all too familiar with the pitfalls of a one size fits all approach, and we should be wary of legislation like this that stands no chance of addressing the diverse challenges that small businesses face. So let's let's do it. Let's have the SBA inform small business owners of their options, all their options. when it comes to health care. And if this program is the best, if it's one that all uh the employers wanna choose, then there would be no problem. We'll we'll see how great it is and undoubtedly how many will choose it. My amendment is simple. It would require the SBA to share information on health care options in general without putting one particular plan over the other. It's because our business owners deserve options that work best for their unique needs and I think we all hear from businesses in our district

Gentlelady yields back. Is there further debate on the amendment? Miss Van Duyn, recognized for five minutes.

I very much appreciate that. Um. again you know the the amendment that is being on the uh put on the table basically guts uh my original bill by removing the entire focus on the ICRAS and replacing it with vague healthcare outreach language purpose of this legislation is to address a specific awareness gap for small businesses about the ICRAS not create a broad new healthcare communications mandate for SBA ACA exchanges and Medicaid already receive extensive federal outreach and taxpayer funded promotion. It's already happening and it's been happening for years. IGRAs do not, which is exactly why this bill was introduced. I urge my colleagues to support the bill and I yield back.

General La- La- Lady yields back. Is there further debate on the amendment?

Mister Chairman, I'd just like to add that if we were going to urge the SBA into a brand new arena of informing small businesses, about their health care options, uh, the bill's title needs to, uh, live up to its name and provide all of those options to small businesses. Uh, currently the SBA is not involved in informing, uh, uh, their, uh, partners, their participants about health care options. Forcing it to only inform them about one option does not give them the full picture.

Gentlelady goes back. Is there further debate on the amendment?

Mr. Chairman.

Uh, ranking members recognized for five minutes.

I support um miscalculation amendment. I think that is straightforward. Why are people so afraid of providing information and let the people that are going to be benefiting from it, uh their uh their ability to make an informed decision by explaining what are the options that they have in front of them, why do we have to push for only one option that could be uh that will make some of them ineligible. Um, so I ask my colleagues to support the amendment. Thank you.

General Leidy yields back. Is there further debate on the amendment?

Mr. Chair?

Mr. Staaber is recognized for five minutes.

I wanna yield uh some of my time to Representative Van Duyn.

Thank you very much. Uh, Ms. Schulten, I'd be more than happy to entertain if you wanna change the name of the bill. Um, I would have loved to have changed the name of the bill of the Affordable Care Act, which was anything but, or the Inflation Reduction Act, which was anything but. So if you would like to s- you know, support a different name for the bill, let me hear it. Thank you. I yield back.

Gentlelady yields back. Uh, the gentleman yields, gentleman yields back.

Uh, I yield back, yes.

Gentleman yields back. Is there further debate on the amendment?

mr. mr. chairman i'd like to be recognized

gentlemen recognized

i'd like to yield some time yield my time to miss schlotten

scholten

scholten sorry

happens all the time uh if if the title is what you're concerned about miss van duyn we can change it to uh the ichra information act uh which would be a a more apt description of what you're trying to do here Uh, but I think the overall purpose of what you're trying to accomplish is, uh, actually noble and, and a- as the number one issue that small businesses are struggling with right now, health care affordability, we absolutely, it should be encouraging the SBA to provide them with all options. Uh, but that's not what this bill does. And so it's confusing, it's misleading to our small businesses, uh, and, and that's not what we should be in the business of doing. The amendment is very simple. Uh, let's just provide it with, with all the options and they can choose the best one for them. Thank you.

Uh, the gentleman uh yields back.

Uh, I would just like to say, Mister Chairman, that I, it's, too, also support this amendment. And, again, if it is important for us to provide everybody with all the information possible on all the hair healthcare plans available. So why not? You know, if the SBA is gonna provide information on this, provide all the information that's out there possible to all the the programs that are available. And with that, I support this amendment and I yield back.

OK, is there further debate on the amendment?

Oh, sure.

Recognized, Mr. Schmidt.

No, it's all right.

OK. Is there further debate on the amendment? OK. Uh, thank you, Miss Goulton, for offering an amendment to this legislation. However, I urge my colleagues to vote no on this amendment. I yield back. The question now occurs on the amendment offered by the gentlelady from Michigan. All those in favor say aye.

Aye. Aye.

All those opposed say no.

No. No.

Depending on the chair, the no's have it. And the amendment is not agreed to.

Mr. Chairman, I request a recorded vote.

Recorded vote is requi- is requested. And a roll call vote is ordered. Further proceedings on the amendment and the bill are postponed. Are there additional amendments?

Mister Chair, I'd like to be recognized.

For what purpose does the gentlelady seek recognition?

Mister Chair, I have an amendment at the desk.

There's amendment at the desk, we will briefly pause while staff distribute the amendment. The clerk will report the amendment.

Amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to H R fifty-four, ninety eight,

Without objection, the amendment is considered,

offer.

it is read, and I now recognize Doctor Morrison from the great state of Minnesota, for five minutes on the amendment.

Thank you very much, Mister Chair. My amendment adds the requirement that when the small business administration and small business development centers are publicizing or posting information about individual coverage reimbursement arrangements or ICRAs on their website. They must include a notice explaining to small businesses that ICRAs may prevent employees from accessing premium tax credits under the Affordable Care Act marketplace for which they would otherwise be eligible. Small businesses and their employees should be provided with all pertinent information so they can make informed choices for themselves and their families. I want to stress that many people receive worse health care coverage under ICRAs and that their use can make people ineligible for premium tax credits. that can be used for more comprehensive and affordable coverage. Additionally, ICRAS may lead to healthcare discrimination against certain employees and push other healthcare costs even further by adding higher risk part-time and older employees to the exchange while reserving better healthcare options for top executives. As a physician, I know how crucial having access to affordable health insurance is to keeping people healthy and the overall integrity of our healthcare system. In addition to ICRAS being an unproven creation of the Trump administration with little initial data to support, the idea that they save costs. With the chaos and instability caused by the so-called one big beautiful bill, insurance markets have been further destabilized and premiums have skyrocketed, making ICRA as an even less secure option for coverage. We should be working together to ensure that small businesses have access to information about all types of healthcare coverage, so they can make the choice that's best for them, not putting them at greater risk for inadequate coverage. I urge my colleagues to vote in favor of this amendment, to ensure the Small Business Administration's providing small businesses with the relevant information they need to make informed decisions about their health care coverage. Thank you, Mister Chair. I yield back.

General Adios back. Is there further debate on the amendment? Now I recognize Miss Van Duyn from Texas for five minutes.

Thank you very much, Mister Chairman. This amendment is one-sided and extraordinarily misleading, because it highlights only potential subsidy impacts while ignoring the benefits of employer-sponsored coverage flexibility under ICRA's. It also implicitly pushes employees toward remaining on its subsidized ACA coverage instead of employer-supported coverage options. Further, ACA premium subsidies have been repeatedly identified as vulnerable to improper payments, eligibility issues, and fraud. Congress, GA AO and the HHS OIG have all raised concerns about inefficient income verification and improper enrollment practices within the ACA subsidy structure. Rather than helping small businesses offer coverage, this amendment appears focused on steering individuals toward tax payer funded ACA subsidies, a system that has faced repeated concerns over improper payments, eligibility issues and fraud. I urge my clients not to support this amendment and I yield back.

General Leah yields back. Is there any further debate on the amendment? I now recognize the ranking member from New York, Miss Velasquez, for five minutes.

No one can deny in this committee that small businesses are struggling with the rising cost of health care if they can provide it. And this is a crisis that has been manufactured by this administration, by enacting the policies that they have uh implemented. So, small businesses and their employees are struggling with health care cost and with this uh affordability crisis. And this goes for the Small businesses and their employees need all the pertinent information. They need to know that their employees could be worse off with a uh ICRA. And they need to know that they that their use could make them ineligible for the premium tax credit that they will provide that will provide more generous and affordable coverage. By directing SBA to information, to provide information only on ICRAs while failing to disclose that accepting an ICRA could make them ineligible for premium tax credit is misleading, and quite frankly, problematic. Omitting that information risks steering small businesses away from coverage options that might be more affordable and generous. That is why I strongly support the amendment offered by my colleague, Doctor Morrison, which will require SBA to include a notice explaining that individuals may lose access to the premium tax credits in the marketplace. I urge all my colleagues to support it. Are you back?

Gen- gentlelady yields back. Is there further debate on the amendment? All right. Seeing none, I'd like to recognize myself on this amendment. I appreciate Doctor Morrison's amendment uh to this uh legislation, I urge my colleagues to vote no. I yield back uh the uh uh I yield back, now the question now occurs on the amendment offered by the gentlelady from Minnesota. All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

All those opposed say no.

No. No.

Between the chair, the uh no's uh have it, and the amendment

Mister Chair, I'd like a recorded vote please.

Member requests a recorded vote, has been requested, and a roll call vote is ordered. further proceedings on the amendment and the bill are postponed and are there any additional amendments to the amendment in the nature of a substitute to hr fifty four ninety eight

it's both now seeing none sure see we have all the people

huh

seeing none

ok seeing none uh that uh uh concludes the consideration of legislation for today's mark up

uh excuse me mr. chairman

uh yes ma'am

um i request a recorded vote

record recorded vote is requested And the committee will stand in recess.

Why can't we do that?

Why why why are we doing that?

Oh. Why can't we do that?

What are we doing?

Oh. We have if all the people are here, what can we do on that?

Mm-hmm. K, the the committee will stand in recess, subject to the call of the chair. Members please return at four O five uh to resume consideration of the bills and amendments on which roll call votes were requested and postponed. Yeah. I wanna take a point of personal privilege before we get started to Ranking member and I have been talking about moments that sometimes don't come out right. And I had one of those today, w- trying to say the word ambiguity. Still can't say it. And it reminded me of a story about Lyndon Johnson when he was uh president had a young girl from University of Texas write his first State of the Union speech. And he, as he was reading through it, he would say, " Honey, people aren't gonna know what that word means." And he'd cross through it, or he couldn't say it. And every time he put the X on the word he couldn't say, it would say, " My dear old daddy said." So I had my dear old daddy said moment today. And uh Just try it and see if you join my, join the club, but any ambiguity, I got it, that's good. OK. All righty, this team, this uh committee will now come to order. We'll resume consideration of the bills on which roll call votes were requested and postponed. We'll begin the with uh H R forty-two thirty-eight. The question now occurs in order in H R forty-two thirty-eight. As amended, reported failure to the House, the Clerk will open the vote. Oh, there we go, right?

Yep.

And where do I hit it?

Uh, right here.

You're good.

Megan, you make sure.

I think I'm good now. Sorry, I have a excuse.

But what is happening?

Yes, there is.

Are there any of the members who have not voted or wish to change their vote?

Yes, yes, yes.

If not, the clerk will close the vote and the clerk will report.

Mister Chairman, on this vote the ayes are twenty-three and the noes are zero.

The motion is agreed to and H R forty-two thirty-eight is amended, and will be reported favorably to the house. Question now occurs in order an H R eighty-eight seventy-nine reported favor favorably, to the house. The clerk will open the vote. And we're green, right? We there yet? Are there any other members who have not voted or wish to change their vote? If not, the clerk will close the vote and the clerk will report.

Mister Chairman, on this vote the ayes are twenty-three and the noes are zero.

Okay, the motion is agreed to in H R eighty eight seventy nine, will be reported favorably to the House. Question now occurs in order in H R twenty eight twenty six, as amended, reported favorably to the House. The Clerk will open the vote.

We need a vote.

Are there any members who have not voted or wish to change their vote? If not, the clerk will close the vote and the clerk will report.

Mister Chairman, on this vote the ayes are twenty-three and the noes are zero.

The motion is agreed to and H R eight twenty-six as amended will be reported favorably to the house. Question now occurs in order in H R eighty eight eighty, reported favorably to the house. The clerk will open the vote. Are there any of the members who have not voted or wish to change their vote?

Waiting.

OK.

From mister who?

From mister who?

Alfred.

Uh, if not, the clerk will close the vote.

Oh.

What?

Are there any other people?

OK. Are there any of the members besides Alfred Mm-hmm. who have not voted or will not change their vote? OK. If not, the clerk will close the vote. The clerk will report.

Mister Chairman, on this vote the ayes are twenty-three and the noes are zero.

The motion agreed to and H R eighty eight eighty will be reported favorably to the house. Question now occurs in order H R eighty eight eighty one, reported favorably to the house. The clerk will open the vote. Are there any of the members who have not voted or wish to change their vote? If not, the clerk will close the vote and the clerk will report.

Mister Chairman, on this vote the ayes are twenty three and the noes are zero.

Are the motions agreed to in H R eighty eight eighty one will be reported favorably to the house. Question now uh occurs on order in H R eighty eight eighty two, reported favorably to the house. The clerk will open the vote. Are there any other members who have not voted or wish to change their vote? If not, the clerk will close the vote and the clerk will report.

Mister Chairman, on this vote the ayes are twenty-three and the noes are zero.

Uh, the motions agreed to in HRA eighty-two will be reported fairly to the house. Question now occurs on ordering H R nine fifteen reported failure to the House. The Clerk will open the vote. Are there any other members who have not voted or wish to change their vote? If not, the Clerk will close the vote and the Clerk will report.

Mister Chairman, on this vote the ayes are twenty-three and the noes are zero.

The motion is agreed to and H R nine fifteen will be reported failure to the house. The question now occurs on order H R twenty eight O four as amended, reported failure to the house. The clerk will open the vote. Are there any of the members who have not voted or wish to change their vote? If not, the clerk will close the vote. The clerk will report.

Mister Chairman, on this vote the ayes are twenty-three and the noes are zero.

Alright, the motion is agreed to and H R twenty eight O four as amended, we report a favorability to the house. OK, we will now take the proposed uh votes on H R fifty-four ninety eight. OK, the question is on the adoption of the amendment to the amendment. in the nature of the substitute offered by Ms. Galton to H R fifty four ninety eight. Four. Who reports the vote.

We'll open it.

I'm sorry, will open the vote. Are there any of the members who have not yet been elected?

I have.

Oh, hey.

What?

What?

Oh, oh, oh. Oh, wake up, wake up. It's too late. Wake up. Wake up. Wake up. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. It's too late. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. OK. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Are there any other members besides Sneros who have not voted or wished to change their vote? If not, the clerk will close the vote and the clerk will report.

Mister Chairman, on this vote the ayes are eleven and the noes are twelve.

OK, the amendment is not agreed to. Request is on the adoption of the amendment to the amendment in the nature of a substitute offered by Doctor Morrison uh to H R fifty-four ninety eight. Uh, the Clerk will open the vote.

I think this is where it's just gonna be.

We good? Are there any other members who have not voted or wish to change their vote? If not, the clerk will close the vote and the clerk will report.

Mister Chairman, on this vote the ayes are eleven and the noes are twelve.

Are you sure?

You wanna recount? I mean, you you nobody's voting over there on your side, so.

Good.

The amendment is not agreed to. OK, the question now occurs on the adoption of the amendment in the nature of a substitute offered by Representative Van Duyn to H R fifty four ninety eight.

I guess.

All those in favor say aye.

Aye.

Opposed, all those say

No. No.

no. The paint of the chair, the ayes have it. The amendment in the nature of a substitute to H R fifty four ninety eight is adopted. Now the question is now unfavorably reporting H R fifty four ninety eight as amended to the house. All those in favor say aye.

Aye. Aye.

All those opposed say no.

No.

In the opinion of the chair of the ayes have it, and hr fifty four ninety eight as amended.

Mister Chair, I'd like to uh request a recorded vote.

Yes. Okay, a recorded vote has been requested. A roll call vote is ordered. The clerk will open the vote. Are there any other members who have not voted or wished to change their vote? If not, the clerk will close the vote and the clerk will report.

Mister Chairman, on this vote the ayes are thirteen and the noes are eleven.

All right, the motion agreed to in H R fifty four ninety eight as amended will be reported favorably to the House, that's it.

No, not yet.

If there's no further business, this concludes today's mark-up. Without objection, the committee staff has authorized

Thank you.

To make technical and conforming changes, the members have two business days to file additional supplemental dissenting minority views. I want to thank all of you for being here today. Without objection, we live in the greatest country in the world. The committee stands adjourned.

Thank you.