FY 2027 Proposed Department of Energy Budget Estimates and Justification

The subcommittee will come to order. Uh, it's nice to be able to, uh, begin the first of our, uh, committee oversights or subcommittee oversights on the interior environment and related agencies. I'm just gonna note for the record that we are all uber busy this morning. I don't know how many appropriation subcommittees you have. I have four, then I've got a couple full committees. So, anyway. Sir, if we pop in and out this morning, it's not because we are not interested in all that you have to say about this very important budget but there is just a lot happening so thank you for making sure that you can uh come before our committee um at our invitation to examine the President's budget request for the Department of the Interior for fiscal year twenty twenty seven uh again a welcome to our Secretary of the Interior, Doug Burgum. Um, it's good to have you back before the committee and I really appreciate your visits to Alaska. I know you've got another one coming up, so thank you very much for that. When - when we held this hearing just a year ago, uh, fact of the matter is is there was a lot of confusion going on. Uh, we were dealing with Doge, um, we were dealing with efforts to - to really reorganize and consolidate at the department. It was just really hard to kind of keep on top of all that was happening. I hope that we're Past those days now, um, I truly appreciate the increased communication that we have, we have seen from the, uh, from the agency, so thank you for that. And I also want to personally recognize the very substantive work that you and the administration are doing to advance Alaska's immense natural resource opportunities. You and your team have lifted part of the public land order fifty-one fifty to help complete the Stan's state's land entitlement. Thank you for that. You've gotten the Ambler Access project back on track. Uh, you're pushing very, very hard on AKLNG, uh, as well as the coastal plane. You repealed an unlawful management rule for our petroleum reserve. And you just held the best ever lease sale there, raising a hundred and eighty-three million dollars. That was fabulous. And you also have focused, as you promised me you would, uh, on completion of the land exchange with the very good, very patient people in King Cove for the lifesaving road that they have been fighting for for decades now. So thank you for that. This, the members of this panel have widely divergent views about Interior's mission and what its bureaus and agencies should be doing on a daily basis, but we did some really good work. Um, and I want to acknowledge my ranking member here. We worked hard last year to bridge those gaps. and to pass what I thought was a good, a thoughtful, and of course a bipartisan uh bill for FY twenty-six. And now we get to do it all over again. Um, our starting point here is the President's request, and I always say that while the President proposes the budget, Congress holds the power to dispose of it. Uh, once again there are things that many of us like and support, and there are some things that we won't agree with, that will not make it into our bill. From a high lever- level perspective, the president is proposing a slight increase for the department, but that relies on some significant structural shifts, including the establishment of a new wildland fire service. I'm eager to explore that, uh, learn more details as, uh, we brace for what I am, uh, fearful of, which is, um, expected to be a bad fire season across the western US. Another notable proposal is for a new marine minerals administration. Uh, there are valid reasons to consider that as well, although the projected cost savings raise some eyebrows as we prioritize the continued safety of off-shore operations. Safety relies in part on adequate staffing on the regulatory side. I'm also less enthused about the budget cuts for just about every bureau, including, uh, major reductions for hazards, Uh, the USGS account is cut thirty-seven, uh, percent. We've got a twenty-six percent cut for the Bureau of Indian Affairs, thirty-two percent cut for National Park Service, and a thirty-five percent cut for the Bureau of Land Management. Um, I also note that while we're seeing reductions there, we are seeing increases, um, in a couple of different areas that, again, get your attention. Uh, ten billion dollars in mandatory spending, uh, mandatory funding. for beautification uh here in the District of Columbia. Not that we don't need to beautify, but I think many of our national parks uh could also use some support here. So uh working through some of that, I also note the one billion dollars for uh a new program for the Great Salt Lake. So obviously much more to learn there. Ultimately, my goal is to make sure that our FY twenty-seven bill again puts the department in the best possible position. uh for the year ahead. And that includes the funding that you need to permit domestic resource production. And this is everything from oil and gas to minerals and including renewables, which we can't arbitrarily exclude from our nation's energy portfolio. Um addressing some of the things that are important within my state. I think that we need, we must address BIA tribal community resilience grants We continue to hear that those funds remain frozen, and your budget again proposes to eliminate this critical program, which tribal communities rely on to prepare for and respond to natural disasters and other environmental threats. We need to build out our work on contaminated lands in Alaska, expedite allotments for Alaska Native Vietnam veterans, ensure the new offshore program focuses on the right basins, and then, as we're talking about offshore, uh, we must meet our - our obligations to our U. S. territory, something that we don't talk often enough. Um, a- again, as we discussed, uh, last week, I - I really appreciate the efforts that you have made, Mister Secretary, so far, but when it comes to the probate backlog, I think you and I agree we have much more that needs to be done. This probate backlog that impacts Indian country is just not acceptable. We need you to focus on getting culturally competent permanent staff in place, because even if all the vacant positions were suddenly filled, it's still going to take eight years just to resolve the existing cases, not including their adjudication. And you're gonna hear in my questions this morning a real focus on the staffing, um, because it's not just within the probate accounts. Uh, you need appropriate staffing across the board so the department can do the work on time, and in a legally defensible matter. And, and I think this is one of the areas within the Department of Interior, people look at this, this massive, massive department and it's, it's, it's all about administering our lands, whether it's uh BLM, whether it's Park Service, um and, and they think about it from the land perspective, but we can't manage it, we can't manage these unless we have the people there. It just takes a lot of good people doing good to turn it into sustained success. And - and you've got a lean team and they are darn good and I appreciate them. Um, but we keep hearing this, not just from Alaska but other Western delegations, that there is a concern that if we're gonna execute on the President's executive orders, we need the men and women to do just that. So, got a lot to discuss on this busy day. So again, I thank you for being here. Thank you for your leadership. And I look forward to working with you and your team, uh, as - as we on the committee here work to craft another good bill with my counterpart, uh, Senator Merkley. Now it's turn to you, sir.

Well, th- Well, thank you very much, uh, Chair Murkowski, and it has been a pleasure working together. And I hope that the - the bill we were able to do, uh, for FY twenty-six, uh, gives us a strong start for fiscal year twenty-seven. And welcome, Secretary, uh, Burgum. The Interior Department carries quite a set of responsibilities. entrusted with stewarding our nation's public lands, honoring our commitments to tribal nations, and safeguarding our natural resources for this generation and those generations to come. But I'm quite concerned that the actions of your department are undermining those missions, rather than advancing those admissions. Let's just start with the rule of law. The committee has requirements for reorganizations and reprogrammings. In our most recent bill, passed in January, we added a requirement to provide advanced notification. Notification is not optional. And yet we only learned about the merger of the offshore wind, regulatory and permitting agencies through the news. No advanced notification of any kind. That's not a policy disagreement, this is just an issue of the rule of law and your decision to ignore it, which is unacceptable to this member of the committee. We also require congressional approval for reorganizations and reprogrammings, and decades of Republican and Democratic administrations have honored that arrangement with the legislative branch under our Constitution and the separation of powers. But your department's refusal to cooperate with the committee's oversight role is really quite a divergence from that and quite unacceptable. We recently learned that the Department of Justice paying TotalEnergies a billion dollars to cancel projects that would have produced cheaper and cleaner power. And in return you're asking that company to export more natural gas and to invest in a series of other fossil projects. But, deliberately warping the economy to advance dirtier, more expensive energy over cleaner, less expensive energy does not serve the American nor certainly not America's leadership in the world. Using taxpayer dollars to pay for-profit companies to not produce clean energy and to ask them to export more natural gas, which increases the price of natural gas here in the United States. It's raising the price for American households, comp- totally incompatible with the mission of - of lowering prices for Americans. And that's happening at a time when people across this country are already seeing their utility rates raise and are feeling press to the wall in other dimensions on housing and healthcare. So driving up the cost of gas for households certainly is counter-productive to the welfare and the economic success of our families. We are told that the administration is focused on rooting out waste, fraud, and abuse. But where is that scrutiny when it's needed to make sure that the investments promote less expensive energy rather than more expensive energy? It is completely absent. The Interior Department has made a policy to hold renewable energy to a different standard, a more difficult standard, than polluting oil and gas. That does not serve America well. mothballing projects until developers lose interest or they run out of money is really a attack on a significant part of our economy. And the President has said he hates wind turbines. And your department has been falling all over itself to carry out that fixation against wind turbines, even if it means higher rates for Americans and losing global competitiveness. This is not in America's interest. And you propose in your budget to eliminate all funding for renewable energy permitting and research. In other words, put America last in advancing the energy of the future. And I'm very concerned about this budget's assault on our tribal communities. Proposes cutting programs for tribal communities by a third. A billion and a half taken out of tribal governments and tribal schools, road repair, agriculture, firefighting, job training. For school construction alone, tribal school construction, an eighty-five percent cut. That is simply not acceptable. Many of the schools in Indian country are in far worse shape than than our public schools elsewhere. And certainly we have a responsibility to assist with the upgrades. What I think adds to the fact that I'm so troubled by this is you had the same proposal last year. So, over the last year tribal communities have weighed in heavily, Congress weighed in heavily. So, we supported our tribal communities, and yet you bring back the same exact proposal again. Deaf, really, to the responsibilities and concerns expressed over an entire year. Bringing it back again, that's just a - a choice. To rub salt into the wound? Not a good move. And this pattern of reckless cuts, it extends across departments, takes the Fish and Wildlife Service, proposes a significant cut to the National Wildlife Refuge System, a system that places well, tens of millions of Americans rely on those places for outdoor recreation, including hunting and and fishing and wildlife viewing, And eliminating funding for multinational species conservation. Programs where we partner with other countries to combat wildlife trafficking, to protect iconic species, to disrupt the terrorist and the criminal networks that profit from it. So, cutting back on those programs seeds leadership abroad. At the very moment when, really, our interests would be advanced by cooperation and leadership. Turning to the National Park Service, we again see a budget that repeats wildly unpopular and counter-productive proposals, proposing to eliminate another twenty-five hundred positions on top of the twenty-five hundred folks who were in the - the lingo of the day, voluntold to leave their jobs. It's not a minor adjustment. It's a fundamental hollowing out of the workforce that protects and manages our most treasured places. Our national parks are not theme parks. They certainly shouldn't be sold off. And so, this budget, really, uh, is an insult to Americans where we have seen how important those national park staff are to protect our natural and cultural resources, to maintain infrastructure, to manage wildfire, water systems, conduct scientific research, plan for the long-term in an ever-changing environment, we need the trail guides, we need the biologists, we need the maintenance crews. But this budget says it's time to unravel the national park system by cutting hundreds of park treasures out of the system entirely. We saw a debate here in the Senate over this last year where a couple senators propose selling off some of our public lands. And I can tell you how that goes over in rural Oregon. We treasure our places to hike, to camp, to hunt, to fish, to collect mushrooms, and just to be in the wilderness to restore our souls. And yet you wanna see those sold off so that the billionaires of the world can put up a fence and say, " Not here." Billionaire now owns Jeff Bezos now owns. Someone else now owns our national treasures. We are not gonna let that happen. As Wallace Stegner once said, our national parks are the best idea we ever had, absolutely American, and absolutely democratic. And as we approach the two hundred and fiftieth anniversary of this nation, we should be strengthening that legacy, establishing that foundation for the next two hundred and fifty years, not undermining it, not damaging it. And yet, when we look at this budget, we see a very different set of priorities from this administration. We see slush funds, we see vanity projects, and we see the weaponization of long-standing bipartisan programs. The budget proposes ten billion dollars for a presidential capital stewardship program focused on ego-driven vanity projects here in Washington DC. Deferred maintenance in the DC area has been estimated at two point seven billion. Well, that's a lot less than ten billion. Where is the additional seven point three billion dollars going? And, you know, it's already, uh, another three hundred and ten million in carryover from the legacy restoration fund that the Park Service tells us is dedicated for Washington DC.

Mm-hmm.

So give us a very detailed analysis of what's you have in mind rather than setting up this slush fund to be spent on vanity projects for our president as opposed to for the people at the same time this budget requests nine point five billion dollars per year for five years to address deferred maintenance and infrastructure needs across the entire country so here we have a slush fund of ten billion for vanity projects for this president which exceeds the nine point five billion per year for the five years to address deferred maintenance and infrastructure across the entire country in national parks, wildlife refugees and tribal schools. So, bring us a detailed vision of how every penny is to be spent and then we can have a real discussion about that ten billion dollars. We've watched the President tear down the People's House. We've watched the President rename a memorial for President Kennedy after himself. It's not a pretty sight, and you shouldn't be part of it and the Interior Department should not be part of it. Vanity projects to promote the current President are better suited to a regime than to a republic. And another problem in this administration is its compulsion to bring partisanship into nonpartisan actions. The project list for the Land and Water Conservation Fund put forward last year and this year are almost entirely in red states. You have politicized projects that have never been politicized before. This committee's worked for years on a bipartisan basis to invest in Land, Water, Conservation Fund projects across the country, red states and blue states alike, regardless of whether or which party is representing them in the Senate or in the House of Representatives. It's odd to even describe these projects in partisan terms. The administration is also requesting the extension of legacy restoration fund to support deferred maintenance on federal lands and in tribal schools. I strongly support that. But are you going to bring your partisanship into that as well, where no partisanship should ever exist? I hope you'll be able to affirm to us that you're going to end this corruption of bipartisan funding for projects. Last week, the President announced plans to unilaterally construct what he calls a triumphal arch on federal parkland here in Washington DC. Where was the consultation?

Consultation.

Where was the public process? Where are the approvals required under law? Why is the taxpayer paying for these funds diverted from a program that funds rural museums and libraries doesn't seem appropriate to me i don't think it seems appropriate to most of america budget such statements of values and this budget proclaims that the values of this administration are the public lands are to be exploited rather than stewarded that energy should be dirty and expensive rather than clean and cheaper and that slush funds with no accountability are in our nation. And that congressional oversight is a problem within a core part of the separation of powers under our constitution. I hope with this two hundred and fiftieth anniversary we will celebrate our constitution, the separation of powers, and public accountability, because that's what the American people deserve. Thank you.

Mr. Secretary, we will now turn to you for - for your opening. comments. Uh, we do have your written testimony, but we're pleased that you are before the committee here this morning. Welcome.

Thank you, Chairman and Ranking Member. Uh, uh, distinguished members of the subcommittee as well as the Chairman and the Ranking Member thank you for this opportunity to be with you this morning to uh testify in support of the President's fiscal twenty twenty seven budget request for the Department of the Interior and discuss what our team is doing to make America safer, stronger, more beautiful and more prosperous. As you all know on this committee, the department touches the lives of millions of Americans. We manage Americans' vast energy supply and natural resources. We honor federal trust responsibilities in our unique relationships with five hundred and seventy-five tribal nations. We deliver water to the west, we fight fires, we enforce the law, and we steward our treasured wildlife, refuges and national parks. Our efforts extend across the country to insure border security, the Department of Interior, manages forty-one percent of the southwestern border, and also the safety in Indian country. This broad portfolio is part of America's balance sheet, tens of trillions of dollars worth of assets that belong to the American people and should be responsibly managed, conserved and put to use for their benefit, according to the law. While prior administrations have handcuffed prosperity and locked Americans out of their land and water the Trump administration is doing the opposite. responsibly unlocking access and unlocking prosperity through recreation and sustainable use including by our nation's hunters and anglers. This budget reflects President Trump's priorities to pursue energy dominance, uh, deliver services more efficiently, uphold law and order, and make our federal lands safe and accessible for all Americans, all of which, uh, would make life more affordable for our families across the country. Under this administration, Interior is committed to increasing energy development on our lands and waters, uh re-establishing our position as dominant in critical minerals, and protecting our economic and national security. Energy dominance means selling energy to our friends and allies so they don't have to buy it from those waging war against our allies or those that are waging terrorism against us. We have eliminated burdensome ideological counter-productive regulations that undermined efficient land management and economic development. while maintaining appropriate protections on our wildlife and our environment. Ongoing regulatory reform to cut red tape uh will continue to secure our supply chains, unlock American energy, deliver better outcomes for the American people and tribal nations, and secure sustainable financial returns for the American people on federally owned land and mineral assets. As noted by the the chairman last month, the department uh held the lawfully required record lease sale in the National Patrolling Reserve in Alaska, uh, generating record revenue and creating opportunities for those, uh, Native Alaskans that live on the North Slope. And following Congress' direction in the Working Families Tax Cut Act, uh, we are scheduling and holding energy lease sales according to the law, to increase supply and lower costs for Americans. The department estimates that revenues in twenty twenty seven will exceed uh nearly twenty billion that's revenues coming in for the managing of our resources more than offsetting the operational cost of the entire department. The department is also reducing costs by making our operations more efficient and more effective. The budget in concludes three proposals to improve efficiency including further strategic unification of the wildland fire programs uh into the department's new US wildland fire service. Uh consolidation of the endangered species act and marine mineral protection act uh which are separately managed under NOAA uh but unifying those with the the parallel and often redundant work within us fish and wildlife and the reunification of the departments to existing offshore mineral management bureaus into a single entity the marine minerals administration streamlining government to offshore energy and mineral resources will deliver greater value to the American public, ensure the safe expeditious and orderly development of our resources and critical minerals. These unification efforts will streamline bureaucracy and make our work to fight fires, manage our forests, protect wildlife and the environment, and manage offshore resources. It'll make them all better, faster, smarter, and more effective. The budget also advances key administrative priorities, including upholding trust responsibilities and empowering Indian country. conserving America's wildlife and natural resources, and making public lands accessible to all Americans for hunting fishing and recreation and other uses. We are expanding efforts to cooperate with tribes and federal agencies to fulfill federal's federal trust responsibilities by committing to open door engagement, transparency, and sustained communication with all five hundred and seventy-five federally recognized tribes. In twenty twenty seven, the department will continue its commitment to advancing tribal sovereignty, economic opportunities, reducing the probate backlog, and combating violent crime and the crisis of missing and murdered indigenous peoples. Millions of Americans visit interior managed lands each year, fueling a boom in outdoor recreation economy and supporting jobs and small businesses nationwide. The twenty twenty seven budget focuses on the continued beautification of interior's assets. One big ask uh that I would have for this committee uh is the reauthorization of the great American Outdoors Act Legacy Restoration Fund, passed by Congress and signed by President Trump in his first term. Reauthorization for a number, for additional five years, uh would again help us to protect uh these important resources. Through this fund the department invests in maintaining roads, bridges, water system, visitor centers and other assets so visitors can continue to enjoy our national parks and public lands for years to come. As we celebrate America's two-fifty, the budget focuses on visitor-facing operation at parks, wildlife refuges, and across public lands. This will help improve the visitor experience, drive tourism, create jobs, and generate revenue for local entrance communities, all while promoting responsible stewardship of our natural resources. The budget also includes a new proposal, the Presidential Capital Stewardship Program, for priority construction and beautification progresses in and around the nation's capital region to address years and years of inadequate maintenance. This program will support the President's Make America Beautiful Again agenda, and improve safety and accessibility, rehabilitate historic buildings and landscape, uh and enhance uh the overall visitor experience in Washington DC and the surrounding area. Iconic monuments, memorials and landscapes supported by these projects will continue to be protected, by the US Park Police. The US Park Police is a separate law enforcement group founded by George Washington in seventeen ninety one. Uh, under the president's leadership is enabled the US Park Police to expedite the hiring, uh, of more than three hundred new officers to keep our nation's capital and national park areas in New York, San Francisco and Washington DC regions safe and beautiful. Uh, and the budget includes an increase of a hundred and eleven million dollars for these dedicated law enforcement offices and the equipment and tools they need to operate, especially as we see record crowds visiting these locations during our two hundred and fiftieth. Simply put, this budget puts America first and Americans first, while securing peace and prosperity for our country's future. I appreciate the subcommittee's support for the department's mission, and I look forward to working closely with you to advance the president's priorities. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Secretary. We will now uh begin a round of questions. I'm gonna ask colleagues to try to well, I'm going to insist that we keep our uh our comments to five minutes, so that we can get to a second round and also recognizing how much is on everyone's plate. So I will be uh I will set the standard here and I will keep my uh remarks um and and your responses to less than five minutes. As I mentioned, Mr. Secretary, um this is uh this is a department that really relies on the good men and women and all that you have outlined in your opening statement in terms of priorities whether it is um building out and executing um on the on the original or the the first day executive order to unleash alaska's resource potential um or whether it is the management of our of our parks it it all requires people and so you and i have talked a lot about probate and I'm actually gonna use my time here this morning to raise that one first, because this is something that is not only um fixable and manageable, but something that uh in fairness is contributing to uh the issue of housing shortages in my state and I'm sure it is in others as well because when you have somebody who passes and that home cannot be occupied until they resolve the probate, Families that have been living there are now locked out, literally locked out, and - and when you say that it takes five to ten years to resolve something like this, unacceptable. So I need you to explain to the committee how the BIA proposed budget and staffing levels are actually going to reduce the probate backlog not only in my state but across the country uh the plans to hire more FTEs um, the timeline on all of this and how many probate cases do you think you're gonna be able to clear uh in this next year we've talked about this specific strike teams uh that have gone to a couple areas but we need to know that we're actually gonna see some results this year that are gonna be significant for the people and the families that are waiting

uh thank you uh chair chairwoman and uh thank you for caring deeply about this important issue as you and i have discussed uh when i got to the department i was uh surprised to find out the extent uh last year uh it took a while because our systems are so antiquated, many of them actually in paper, it took a while to really get our handle on it, but we now uh i- as of in the last uh month now have got our arms around the scale of the problem there's forty-three thousand cases that need to be resolved uh it's unacceptable that this would take uh as you suggested eight years at current pace. Uh as you mentioned we have established strike teams, uh we've gone to areas of high concentration uh uh, Navajo or, uh, MHA Nation where we had an extraordinary amount of cases. Uh, we do have, uh, we'd be happy to share with you. We're now gonna, for the first time ever, have a publicly facing, publicly facing dashboard. Uh, the tribal members will be able to go and, and, uh, take a look and, and understand the data, how we're moving through this work. Uh, we

But will they be able to track their own cases? Is that

And they'll, they'll be able to actually submit online. Right now you ha- right now the process is you have to either walk into an office or you call into a call center and then we start engaging with them via the mail I mean we send documents back and forth we we have people you talk about staffing we have people in interior who are who are at copying machines and licking stamps to try to move this process that's how antiquated this is so getting this all moved online is gonna dramatically increase our productivity uh we have We're not applying AI to do the work, but we have applied AI, for example, to go through the forty three thousand cases and say how many of those cases are only missing one document to get it over the finish line. And then pulling all those out and then concentrating on a bunch, you know, can we get a bunch of them off the table, cuz we're really close to the finish line. Uh, we're also focusing on uh, the dollar side. There is over seven hundred and thirty million dollars estimated of assets, you described homes, but in some cases there's minerals, uh, that belong to tribal members. Uh, so, so taking a look at that and saying, do we have, you know, ten percent of the cases that represent, uh, or twenty percent that represent eighty percent of the revenue? And how do we get the dollars out? Cuz at the end of the day, getting people back, uh, the resources that are actually theirs that we're holding in trust is a part of what we need to do. So.

So, let, let me ask also about, um, the Office of Hearing and, and Appeals, OHA. Because it's not just BIA where we've got the the problem. We've got a big, big vacancy rate there. Um, you need not only the judges. You need the staff there. My understanding is that more than half of OHA paralegal and legal assistant positions aren't filled. We've got several regions that have high vacancy rates, over thirty percent for some of these. Mm-hmm. So, uh, I need to know that when we're talking about about what's going on within BIA, we're also looking at OHA and how we address that. Um, you know my issues. We need to be working to address this. Um, it is, it's something that I hear about everywhere I go in the state. My five minutes are up. I'm turning to my colleague.

But I would just say we are, I met with the leader of OHA uh this past week. Uh, those positions are open. We're hiring, we're providing HR support to get those positions filled. We've got a good pipeline of candidates, but absolutely Uh, Chairman, we need we need those as well to clear the backlog.

Thank you for acknowledging that. Thank you so much for that.

Well, thank you very much, uh, Madam Chair, and I wanna turn to you mentioned the Great American Outdoors Act in your introductory comments and uh we have uh three hundred and ten million in the administration can actually spend right now in the context of uh Washington DC and the law requires submitting a detailed list of what's going to be done uh with those funds and i have here the administration's submission and all it says is t b d so it's a very specific set of funding and yet surely you must have a a list of what you plan to do with that money and yeah what you're providing to congress is simply t b d to be determined Have you not figured out what you wanna do with that funds and if you haven't figured it out, why not?

Uh, we will uh work with you, Senator, to uh to get you the information that you need uh regarding uh those projects. Uh and and a- as you know uh the budget came out at the end of January uh for the for this fiscal year and and LRF for for twenty twenty seven hasn't been authorized yet. But if you're talking about the the dollars that are in the accrued interest account, uh, yes, that list is still being uh worked on.

OK, but you've also asked for an additional ten billion dollars for the President's capital stewardship program. Can you commit to getting us a detailed list of what is to be done with those funds, so that we can exercise our appropriate responsibility?

Uh, we'll g- the, we'll get you all the information that you need according to the law, sir.

And if you do not provide that information, Do you agree that we should not provide the funds because we should be efficient with people's money and and if you have no idea why how you're spending it we should we should uh leave it in the bank?

I I think that the what this committee understands and knows is that we have a thirty five billion dollar backlog of deferred maintenance across uh interior

We should make it very easy to give us a specific list, but if you're asking for a a slush fund I think a better approach, and it's actually required under what we passed in for fiscal year twenty-six is a detailed representation of how those are to be spent. I'm just asking you to abide by the law and not try to turn this into a slush fund. Can you agree to do that?

Uh, I think it's a mischaracterization and an offense to the people that work in uh in interior that you

OK. Thank, thank you. Uh, as long as we don't have the details, it's a slush fund. And you can call it something else if you, you want. But let's, let's turn to a few other pieces of this, this. I am very concerned about the communication with the committee. This oversight committee has been shut out of information from the department, even though we strengthened our reprogramming requirements by adding advanced notification requirement into the statute. But we haven't been notified in advance of the recent deferred resignation offer, or the creation of the Marine Minerals Administration, both clearly fall under our statutory We have not received several other items required by law, land water conservation funds supplemental list required in law to accompany the President's budget. We don't have the project data sheets for the National Park Service's three hundred and ten million as I mentioned seven months of obligation reports required by section four sixteen two quarterly disaster estimates required by law for the Big Bend Texas and North Cascades Washington it's certainly a pattern. And I recognize that the, interior department's, pretty vast and complex enterprise. But, can you strive, can you assure us you'll strive to actually meet, the statutory requirements so that we can do our best job, in fulfilling our responsibility?

Yes.

Thank, thank you, I appreciate that. I am very, concerned as I mentioned in my opening remarks, about the politicization. of the Land Water Conservation Fund in fiscal year twenty five, twenty six, and twenty seven with very few exceptions, the department has only proposed projects in redder states. I just don't think that's the way to go. Can you commit to taking the partisanship out of that process and serving all of America?

Well, I, I can say that I have not been involved in any decisions that were driven politically other than the prioritization, and I think

So the pattern we s- Oh, I am out of time.

Mm-hmm.

Thank you. We're being really good. We set a great example. Um, in keeping to our five minutes, Senator Hoven.

I I think Senator Capito is just a good idea. I just don't want a senator to say, " No, you don't have to work."

Are you sure? OK, I'm going.

Yeah, I want you to owe me, not the way I get.

All right, all right. Thank you, Madam Chair. Uh, Secretary, good to see you. Thanks for being here. Thanks for your service. The Eastern North Dakota Alternative Water Supply program is incredibly water supply municipal and uh residential industrial water supply for all of eastern north dakota uh we've been able to secure a hundred and fifty eight million for it through both the one big beautiful bill and through the appropriations process last year uh in addition uh we're able to use the uh mccluskey canal both because of legislation and uh completing the environmental impact statement which is about a two hundred million dollar savings to taxpayers and benefit to the project that we don't have to now fund with building other structures it will also save about four million dollars a year so that's over three hundred and fifty million dollars in terms of progress we've made in terms of the federal obligation to fund that water supply long-standing this goes back all the way fifty years or more matching the commitment made by the state of north dakota as well as uh many local communities, I think more than thirty local communities who've stepped up. And so the federal government is doing matching its share and uh as obligated to do so. Uh will you continue to help us to fund and complete that vitally important project for all of eastern North Dakota?

Uh y- yes.

And I believe parts of Minnesota too.

Yeah, yes, yes, and I I would say uh uh with a smile on my face, that project's been going on so long that Senator Dorgan and Senator Conrad worked on that for decades so it was a blue state project and now it's a red state I mean this is a perfect example of just doing the thing the right thing that's for the people uh to get something done but I would also say that I know from my prior position and you know from your prior position the state of North Dakota is paying a higher percentage of its share than almost any other water project in the country and well I think one of the ways to prioritize where the dollars goes is which states are willing to put up more money uh because that's a way to extend the federal dollars even further

yeah And that's that's absolutely true and much appreciate and and your help is much appreciated there. Uh, in Theodore Roosevelt National Park, uh, which you've had opportunity to visit on occasion, we have wild horses there. And, uh, they're very important, not only to the people of the state of North Dakota, but to the visitors that come to see these wild horses. I've got legislation in to protect those wild horses along with Senator Kane bipartisan legislation and and he's involved because we actually are following uh the approach that's been taken on the east coast with some of the ponies they have on some of the islands and so forth in the national parks uh do you support that legislation will you help us enact it

yeah entirely support you on that project and the management by the theater roosevelt national park i mean unlike challenges we have say on land in nevada where we've got eighty thousand uh wild burros and horses causing thing the the management of the approximately two hundred and or so horses in the park is exemplary of terms of how a park should do it over that size of a park and, you've been instrumental in working that, Senator, both when you were Governor and now as Senator, so thanks for helping to preserve that great element of the park.

And in fact, we provide for that management, to make sure that we don't have an issue as far as too many horses for the park and that, and for the health and diversity of the herd, right?

Exactly.

So that's an important point.

Exactly.

Thank you for bringing it up.

Exactly.

Yeah, right on. Uh, and then at Camp Grafton we have a BIA law enforcement training center. Uh, we've had incredible, uh, enrollment, and again, uh, we've got Artesia in New Mexico which does an incredible job. Course that's in the southwest part of the country, up in the upper plains. We - we need, uh, that law enforcement training as well. We're - we're really, uh, behind or - or down in terms of filling BIA law enforcement vacancies on reservation. This is vitally important law enforcement issue, so we need this, uh, training center. We've made like I say, great progress there in developing it, developing it and growing it. Uh, will you commit to helping us continue to do that?

Oh, absolutely, this is something that, uh, as Governor I was also supporting and championing. And you know, you've been a great champion of this thing and its location, right adjacent to the Spirit Lake, uh, uh, tribal nation, perfect location. And again, uh, part of it is recruiting and retaining people from the Northern Plains tribes. It's been difficult, uh, and but having having a training center closer to where people have grown up, closer to where the tribes are gonna work in will be definitely help us on retention.

Final point, talk about the importance of multiple use, multiple use, with good stewardship but multiple use on public lands.

Well, it's a first of all it's the law and it's how when public lands were set aside uh under the multi-use doctrine and that includes access for hunting, fishing, uh appropriate mineral development, ranching, uh timber development. Uh, you know, we we'd gone down a path in this country where, uh, we, you know, somehow people thought if it was public land you weren't supposed to set a foot on it, you weren't supposed to cut a tree, you weren't supposed to develop minerals, you definitely weren't supposed to do, you know, energy production. That's not how this was set up. That's not the law. The law is the multiple use doctrine and we're working to ensure that that happens.

Thank you, Secretary. Appreciate it.

Thank you, Senator Ho and Senator Heinrich.

Thanks, Senator.

mister secretary i i wanna start with the clower property which i mentioned to you in the ante room um this was actually funded in fy twenty five it's it's on the list and it seems to be hung up um uh uh what i've been told is it's quote-unquote under review um this is a project that one i think we need to make good to the folks who who came to the federal government and said we want this to be part overlook for the Rio Grande Gorge. Um, they are not my constituents, but I think it's very important that when the federal government makes a commitment we stand by that commitment. Um, it's, it, it's been hung up for quite a while, what's a reasonable time for me to get, uh, a response from the department on when that will be moving forward?