SOCOM, CYBERCOM Posture on FY 2027 Authorization and Future Defense Program

what i've been uh told

so so your testimony based on your understanding and this is south com equities obviously but special operations uh participates is that this public reporting at least south com has gone back and they cannot find evidence that the us carried out uh strike operations of that kind on that day that's your understanding

yes senator it is

yeah well i think it's important to because obviously if there is information about the veracity of this, it should come out. Um, one of the things that I think can be a little confusing in this instance, that could have led to confusion in this in this circumstance is, as far as I know, Southern Spear is a military operation carried out against targets connected to organizations, the list of whom are still classified. Is that correct?

Uh, I I'm I believe so, Senator.

I I think that the the the operations authorized by the President can be carried out against organizations on a list of DTO's designated terrorist organizations that is classified it's only been shared with Congress in a classified setting it's not been made public and that also means the the enemy hasn't been told you're an enemy if you if you declare war against Iraq for example, or Al-Qaeda that public declaration alerts the enemy to know that, hey, you're the enemy if you associate with the group subject to the designation. If the DTO list in Southern Spear is purely classified, that means we haven't alerted, uh, those who the US has determined are combatants that we are in fact engaging in war against them. And that can lead to confusion. My my time is up, but I just wanna just say this. I do commend what you guys have done, um, on this, um, preservation of force and family initiative. And I think it's particularly needed among special operators. But I also think it offers a template more generally for the way we ought to approach the issue of the, you know, long-term well-being of our service members. So keep it up and spread the the best practices from what you're doing. Thank you.

Senator Sullivan.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and uh thank you uh to the witnesses. I just want to add Senator Cain's point. We we had a classified briefing a couple months ago. on the ways in which uh both SOCOM, southern command, NSA go through the target targeting in in this regard and Admiral isn't it true it's uh the JAG officers are there in every step of the way, the NSA is, I mean it is an exquisite, detailed and very uh robust targeting op before anyone is given the authority to go strike, correct?

Senator, that is correct. It is based off of the lessons learned and the process is uh perfected over the last twenty five years of uh persona targeting.

Yeah, no I think the, uh that briefing from my perspective was very impressive. General Rudd, I wanna go back to where you and I had a good conversation during your confirmation process. And it's about how our adversaries often, all over the place, take aggressive, offensive, state-sponsored, kind of cyber-related actions against us across so many spheres, elections, infrastructure. Uh, NSA and our other uh services do a great job on defending that, but um I think, you know, the best defense is also a good offense, right? And I know you probably can't answer the questions here, but um are we also looking at offensive operations from a cyber perspective to keep our adversaries at bay? The one I always think would be good is letting the people of China and Russia know just how their leaders are how rich they are Putin I think is one of the richest guys in the world Xi Jinping's sister is a billionaire wonder how that happened um I mean isn't it also good to go on offense right we get we get attacked a lot but to let people know that uh we can go on offense with the exquisite capabilities that you have

Senator I'd we absolutely have to be capable of providing offensive options and certainly working in concert with honorable sutton as she crafts out the strategy for the department in support of the nds you could expect it we'll be in a position and we have to have the capabilities to

i mean when these dictators are using cyber ops to come after the most important thing to all of us which are the you know american elections well none of them would ever stand for election cause they fear their own people i think we should flex a little offensive cyber capability do you agree with that madam secretary

absolutely as was articulated in the president's cyber strategy for america we need to be very clear that malicious cyber actors in this space have and will feel the consequences of their action we need to look at how we leverage all tools of national power uh whether it be military offensive capabilities or other interagency efforts and that is something we are gonna be posturing the new department of war cyber strategy to make sure we have those capabilities

good good i think it's really important we don't have to say it but i mean they wanna come play with our elections we can make sure their people know how corrupt they are their leaders cause a lot of them are corrupt and um their people should know that general rudd uh we're really excited in alaska nsa alaska's expansion is almost complete um you know it's uh it's great to see that my understanding is the new uh addition is gonna be able to house um uh fifty additional billets there. Um, you know that the group in Alaska, they do fantastic work. It's not on the front pages. It doesn't need to be. But um, would you be willing to visit NSA Alaska with me soon and meet these uh great Americans who are conducting these missions under your command from my state, and work with me on ensuring any additional requirements we need to fully man that expansion in NSA Alaska, fifty additional billets, uh, we can make sure we get done.

Hey, Senator, I I look forward to that opportunity. I think we may have a chance here in the near future to, uh, see that site, uh, at its ribbon-cutting.

Yeah.

But I also have a confession to make. I think I pledged in confirmation hearing that I would go there first if confirmed. Um, I I hope you'll appreciate and understand that

Everybody.

Well, I, it'll be my second location, um, in the role, only because Hawaii, as you, I think you know, experienced some pretty horrific, uh, storms and it caused some physical damage and wanted to check on our folks there,

Your, your, your excuse is exceptional.

General.

and they see that.

General, all, all of our witnesses are absolved from that promise. It's, you know,

But no, Seder, I'm, I'm looking forward to it.

it's made by everyone under duress, and we understand.

It, it's, it's, it's not duress. They're just going to see, Mister Chairman, the most strategic uh, admiral i i wanna and maybe i'll submit this for the record but um uh the university of alaska fairbanks is doing fantastic work on the u. a. s. counter u. a. s. strategy testing uh diu is gonna make an announcement here on a uh commitment to work with the university of alaska fairbanks on uh all the counter u. a. s. stuff that they're doing which is really needed and we're at the cutting edge up in Alaska. So, I'd like to get Secretary Anderson, you and the Admiral maybe uh uh in a um answer for a question for the record, because I'm over my time here, to work with me and the committee on those really good opportunities on a critical area for our national security and that's the counter drone mission. Thank you. Thank you, Mister Chairman.

Thank you, Senator Sullivan, and thank you for your question ab- about the leaders of our adversaries. uh vladimir putin is not our friend uh not only is he one of the most notorious war criminals of our time but um one uh one of the greediest thieves breathing uh on the earth at at this moment

well mr. chairman sara warner and i have worked on this uh very issue together it's a bipartisan issue that hey if these guys are coming after our elections we need to make them uh feel the pain you know

why don't we recognize her at this

Good.

Thank you.

Thank you. Um, I wanna talk about what's going on with our troops when they're injured. We have four hundred troops, at least, so far who've been injured in President Trump's war with Iran. And now traumatic brain injuries have become the quote, signature injury of the war against Iran. Research has shown that special operators are at a higher risk of blast exposure and TBI, which, as you know, increases the risk of suicide, of seizures, and of memory loss. Several hundred special operators are now deployed in the Middle East, and I'm very concerned about whether or not our troops are getting the care that they need for these injuries. For instance, we know about a soldier who was injured in the Iranian drone strike in Kuwait. And he was promised TBI care once they made it out of the war zone. But even after being shipped to Germany and then to Texas, the soldier didn't receive care for weeks. So, Admiral Bradley, uh, do you think that wounded soldiers should have to wait nearly a month to see a doctor?

Uh, Senator, I, uh, no, uh, in the in the hypothetical I absolutely don't believe that. I I don't know the details of the

Fair enough.

situation though.

Yeah, but but that's the real point. We can agree they need help and they need to be evaluated right away. And this committee has worked on a bipartisan basis to help service members with brain injuries. But without records of these injuries, it becomes harder and harder to get care. That's particularly critical for high speedboat teams, uh, and special operators, given the exposure to these. pounding waves and high caliber weapons, both team leaders have described how, quote, the damage piles up almost unnoticed for years and then cascades. But DOD requires cognitive assessments only every five years and SOCOM every three. I have a bipartisan bill with Senators Ernst and King and others on this committee to make sure that these injuries don't fall through the cracks, including by requiring more regular screening and logs to be able to track exposure. And more broadly, the effects of TBIs can compound over time, as we know. Do you agree that it is better if we catch these brain injuries earlier rather than later?

Senator, I absolutely do.

Good. And do you support keeping better records so that we're able to do that? and and more frequent evaluations.

Senator, I do, they, it is critical to uh to be able to understand the mechanisms of harm that come from these various sources that we don't understand very well.

Yeah.

And that data, those logs, that data will help to inform not only treatment, but also means to be able to prevent it in its outset.

Good, I I appreciate that. You know, the fact that troops have faced long wait lists to get specialty care for brain health within DOD's military system. And one of the ways that DOD has tried to address these wait lists is by partnering with outside experts like Homebase uh back in Massachusetts. Homebase's comprehensive brain health and trauma program has helped get ninety-five percent of special operators that it's treated back into the field. Admiral Bradley In your experience, have special operators benefited from programs like home base?

Senator, a- absolutely, combat, that comprehensive uh program for uh brain health is a critical part. We also have partnerships with uh UNC, University of North Carolina and Southern Florida, and and several others to be able to do the same thing. They are all very capable uh in progressing programs. I I think as you highlight, institutionalizing those beyond the pilot, that they are into something that is a part of our mainstream system, that can then be treated with TRICARE and with our VA systems, is a critical next step.

And I very much appreciate your point about institutionalizing it. We can't just treat this as a one-off. We know the problem exists, we've got to record, we've got to document, and we've gotta have people who can treat it. We need to have dedicated resources to support our troops. who are suffering from brain injuries. The Trump administration has plunged us into a war and is asking Congress for a record one point five trillion dollars for the Pentagon. It is outrageous that we would be cutting corners on treating wounded warriors. Thank you, Admiral. I look forward to working with you on this.

Sen-

Thank you, Mister Chairman.

Thank you. Senator Rosen.

Well, thank you, Chairman Wicker, Ranking Member Reid, and uh Thank you for uh well I saw you a little bit earlier today, so thank you again for your service and and for being here. Um I wanna talk a little bit about operational tempo and readiness reporting, because cyber operation forces of course have well they're always in high demand, but they've been in extra high demand since cyber comm was established, which has been exacerbated by the challenges of getting the unit readiness numbers up at the same time. Now that we're fighting wars in multiple theaters, I have to imagine that the operational tempo of those forces is also increasing dramatically. So, General Rudd, uh, could you give us a sense of what the trend is for the op tempo of cyber national miss mission force, please?

Thanks, Senator Rosen. I I appreciate uh the attention on this this topic. As you described and as we would expect, very high demand and a very high operational tempo for our our cyber warriors. in support in real time twenty four seven of of the joint force across a number of problem sets and so this really speaks to the heart of one of the attributes of cybercom two point O that we refer to as optimized unit phasing so think of a cycle upon which you rotate again this is where we have a a lot to uh gain from understanding socom's model for for years um both admiral bradley and i were part of a system that had a rotational force effort. Now granted there are surges, um, and we account for those, but part of the way we accounted for that is size of the force, and bringing in uh sufficient capacity to be able to operationally employ the force continuously across a number of of of problem sets.

Well, that's good because you didn't know what my next question would be, but it's to Secretary Sutton, the status of implementing the ninety-seven recommendations from CyberKom two point O, what is that, and the resources of to your point general the resources needed to implement them especially when setting up three enabling organizations

senator thank you for that question and for your continued focus on this on the cyber topic over the years from an implementation perspective as you mentioned there's a lot of tasks so the approach that we're taking is that within my office i have built a core team that is dedicated to to the implementation process and one of the things that's really exciting to me about that is it uh features contributions from all of our service cyber components and we've actually brought in people who have been in our force for a long time that are now have the opportunity to build the system the talent management system that they wish they would have had so it's the unicorns that we're trying to build at scope and scale are now

mmm

coming in and helping to write the details build out the assessments we need and come up with the models of how we keep careers going um to build mastery. From a resource perspective, the uh we have included funding for the cyber command two auto initiatives in the president's twenty seven budget including funding to start incentive pay to get uh mastery incentives implemented as well as for some of the enabling organizations and some of the other service requirements to be able to get this to speed and look forward to being able to execute that upon passage of the budget for fy twenty seven.

Thank you. I I'm gonna stick on cyber operations for a minute, because I wanna talk about intelligence capabilities. So General Rudd, um your responses to um our advanced policy questions during your nomination process, you mentioned the critical criticality of foundational intelligence to support cyberspace operations and the need for that capability to keep pace with operational needs. So as we all know the FY twenty-five NDA is set a requirement for DOD to establish a cyber intelligence capability. to provide just that sort of foundational intelligence support. So General Rudd, have you uh you have the ability to shape this foundational intelligence capability from the start, so could you elaborate a little bit more based on your experiences at INDOPACOM and SOCOM what you would like to see incorporated in this foundation intelligence capability, please.

Well, Senator, the the reference to my past experience, I would tell you intelligence drives ops and ops drives intelligence. And so it's a continuous cycle. And what we learned over decades of uh fighting alongside each other in a variety of places is, the intelligence apparatus has to be closely linked to and understand the operational side of this. Oh, right. Great, cool. And I haven't had the chance to specifically dive into this yet. I can't wait to hear from him. It's gonna be part of my initial assessment and happy to come back to you for the record, uh as I look more closely at that.

Thank you. I look forward to that. We have a lot of work to do. Thank you, Mister Chair.

Senator Slotkin, we're doing everything we can to keep you from um asking your question. Senator Banks, you're recognized.

Thank you, Mister Chairman. General Redd, can you talk about how the PLA is using artificial intelligence to enhance its military operations?

Senator, I As you would hope and expect, that's certainly something that we are paying particular attention to the the details of which i'd i'd probably rather go into in a close

you you can vaguely you can vaguely you could vaguely talk about

session but i but i i mean

how artificial intelligence is used in warfare and gains that they're making i mean i i don't think there's anything classified about that

yeah senator i i appreciate that

or agree that they are using artificial intelligence

i'm sorry

you can you would agree that they are using artificial intelligence

senator i think that's that's quite clear that they are yes sir

in their military capabilities thank you um so Um, that being the case, would you agree that AI is a quote " dual use" technology?

Senator, dual use in in in what sense, both for non-military and military? I I, Senator, I think that's that's a fair way to characterize it.

Um, and how important is it for the US to have more and better high-end chips than what China does?

Well, Senator, I would take that. category more broadly and say I think it's critical that the US has the technological advantage in every aspect of war fighting. And certainly, as we see the increase in the advent of the application of of artificial intelligence, we're gonna have to make sure that, uh, we retain and maintain our advantage in that and move as fast as we can.

You you agree, I mean, I I I believe we we have today we have the advantage, I think you would You just said that to maintain our advantage, so you agree that we have the advantage. What would happen if we lost that advantage?

Well, Senator, the, I think this team right here is gonna do everything we can to make sure that we don't do that. Um, certainly we're working furiously to do that and we're not gonna be complacent, we won't be satisfied in uh in my in my opening statement I emphasized four operating principles, speed, scale, innovation and integration. I think if we press as hard as we can to apply those principles, to everything that we're doing, but in particular, an effort to maintain our advantage in the the highest tech areas will be OK, and yet will never be satisfied.

But it would be completely unacceptable, wouldn't it, General Rudd, if we lost that advantage.

Chair Chairman, it it would be unacceptable, and we'll make sure that uh we do everything to retain that.

Yeah, I I I think that's um I understand there are a lot of things that you can't say in this setting, but I think it's important for the American people to know that the the critical nature of us keeping that advantage and the role that uh high-end chips play in all of it. I mean you you you've already agreed that um it's important that we maintain high high-end chips for America and for American, Amer- our our own use and develop our own technologies and how dangerous it would be if our adversary um gained an advantage on us on that front. give away our high-end chips to our adversaries. That make sense?

Senator, I'd It does make sense, and again, that that's a critical piece of uh how we're gonna maintain our advantage. Um, and we also have to understand and expect that capability will be distributed and available to others which is why this continuous cycle of maintaining our edge, is is really important. Um,

Yeah, I'll I'll move on. Last week President Trump said that, quote, " America's aging and constrained electric grid infrastructure poses an increasing threat to national defenses." End quote. What what risks do cyber attacks pose to our critical infrastructure?

Well, Senator, the It's certainly a vulnerability, and I think that's the awareness and understanding of that as the first line of defense, and then making sure that uh experts in this field know how to get ahead of it, know how to apply the best cyber defenses, and uh certainly to the extent we're able and we have the capacity, we wanna make sure that we're working with the right folks to uh protect our critical infrastructure.

And I assume what President Trump is saying um about the infrastructure, that would extend a transportation nodes like seaports, airports, and railroads. Would you agree with that?

Senator, I I won't speculate on on what the President meant specifically. I haven't had that conversation with him. Um, but I think it's fair actually, I think it's it's important that we figure out what the definition of critical infrastructure is. Um, prioritize where we need to put our efforts and and resources to safeguard it.

Thank you. My time has expired.

Uh, thank you very much, Senator Slotkin.

Thank you. Um, I wanna, um, support everything that Senator Banks just said, and just re- return to the topic on the classified AI race. I know we can't talk about it here, but, um, I don't think the American public understands how important it is to win that race, that it's the equivalent of winning the nuclear race, like whoever gets there first. Um, and I think, um, you know, if we were healthy, as a country, then elected officials from both sides of the aisle would be focusing on this constantly to make sure we win this race. Um, in that spirit, um, General Rudd, you know, I think the thing that has been, congratulations on being in the seat, I think the thing that, um, has caught, I think, um, the attention of a lot of us is the announcement in the last three or four weeks by Anthropic and then OpenAI of new products, Mythos being the Anthropic product and the open AI product having a a longer name. Um and they are testing this new product very differently than a commercial product. They are testing it like a weapon. They have provided, at least in Anthropic's case, they've provided mythos to like fifty big companies for them to test and and stress test and figure out the vulnerabilities. Microsoft is one of those companies. They're turning around and announcing like two hundred and seventy new patches, just last week, which we assume, Mythos picked up. And I was so concerned about this new step we're taking in the, how it supercharges cyber attacks, that I did a big Zoom yesterday with three hundred and fifty Michiganders, IT professionals for our hospitals, our schools, on how to prepare for this threat. Um, is the NSA or CyberKom testing Mythos right now and using this moment to test out our own vulnerabilities?

senator this is a critically important topic uh i think the way you described it was uh appropriate and uh you i i what i don't wanna do is speak to one specific model i think what we need to think about is the application and the access to early all future models that we see in terms of the capability that uh the the most current models and the new models potentially imply for both defensive,

Yeah.

I I understand, uh, but but we

in defense of our current infrastructure, our nation, our our our our our uh networks?

We have two companies, right? Who have, I mean, this is public information, right? They've come out with these products in the past month. Um, it sent the cyber security world in the commercial sector kind of spinning, that we um now have this supercharged um uh AI technology that finds these vulnerabilities. I'm just asking if the Pentagon or NSA is testing out either of these two companies' models.

Senator, again, we're, we're looking at all models that, uh, we think have the power that, uh,

So,

is being associated with those.

yeah, yes, you're us- I want you to be using them, I want you to be experimenting with them, and I, but the Pentagon has had a very public fight with anthropic. Again, this is public information, so I'm just making sure that the newest, hottest, AI-empowered cybersecurity models are being used by the Pentagon, um, f- on cyber security. So, uh, I, I, I'm taking your answer as yes and, and correct me if I'm wrong. Um, let me turn to another topic and, you know, we're heading towards a summit between the president and Xi Jinping, um, a Chinese president on May fourteenth. Huge deal, right, in the, in the world, um, of negotiation and security. Um, and I am just concerned that there's a uh a topic on the table of allowing chinese vehicles into the united states and i think the chinese have shown themselves to be bad actors when it comes to collecting data on american citizens they hacked the president and vice president's phones during the campaign salt typhoon volt typhoon getting into our infrastructure um they stole a bunch of our records probably yours definitely mine in twenty sixteen from um opm uh yes sir i mean they are not No, Huawei. positive actors, and this body banned Huawei and TikTok, um, because of the data they were taking on Americans. So can you just say aloud, I asked others in uniform this last week, um, do you believe that allowing in Chinese cars with LIDAR and full motion video, geo-location, Geo-con. the ability to be hacked via Bluetooth, That sounds good. do you believe that that is a threat to our military bases, our critical infrastructure, and generally to collecting on American citizens?

yeah senator i think uh we need to uh take into account any potential technological application that poses a threat against our our bases our our service members and make sure we do everything to protect against that

well yeah i would love the chairman's help i've tried for two years in a row to ban chinese vehicles from our military bases as i understand it abroad our military bases with all these chinese cars they can already get on Um, they've got fifteen percent market share in Mexico, so would hope that this committee could at least do the banning of them collecting on our military bases. And I yield back.

Thank you very much, Senator Slotkin. Um, and this concludes today's hearing. I'd like to thank our witness for the, for their testimony, for the information of members' questions for the record will be due to the committee within two business days of the conclusion of this hearing. thank you very very much for your information and your testimony today and we are adjourned