Nominations for Ambassador to Indonesia, El Salvador, Rwanda, Nicaragua, Malawi

i think it's a lot of fun All right, Meg.

Yep, all set, sir.

Good morning, everybody. Committee's gonna come to order here. Uh, I wanna thank everybody for being here today. Uh, today we're gonna consider the nominations of first the Honorable Bill Grayson to be Ambassador to the Republic of Indonesia, uh, Mr. Mark Abreu to be Ambassador to the Republic of El Salvador, uh, Mr. Nick Chekker to be the Ambassador to the Republic of Rwanda, uh, Miss Natasha Franceschi to be the Ambassador to the Republic of Nicaragua, and Mr. John McIntyre to be Ambassador to the Republic of Malawi. And here, I might play just a start together. As we you know, I wanna make sure that everybody knows the rules the of the of the committee and how this is gonna operate. We have very important work to do and limited time to get the work done as a result. We're not gonna tolerate any sort of disruptions, any demonstrations, or any outbursts in the committee. If anybody chooses to interrupt the proceedings, um I wanna make it clear that you will be removed and you will be banned from attending any public hearing for the next twelve months, should you do so. I appreciate everybody's understanding. I look forward to a very constructive hearing. Um I'm gonna start out um uh with utilizing my prerogative as chairman to introduce two good friends. Uh first I'm gonna introduce Mister Nick Chekker, our nominee, to be ambassador to Rwanda, and then I'll introduce Ambassador Bill Grayson, our nominee, to be ambassador to Indonesia. Uh Nick, I wanna begin with you. Um when I say that Nick will make an outstanding ambassador, I'm speaking both as someone who's been an ambassador myself and as Nick's former boss. Nick served for a year in my Senate office as a National Security Fellow and during that time, I saw firsthand his sound judgment, his disciplined work ethic, and his ability to handle sensitive national security matters with discretion. Those qualities help explain why Nick has repeatedly been entrusted with demanding national security assignments in our government. He spent more than a decade at the Central Intelligence Agency, where his work included conflicts in the Greater Middle East and in the Horn of Africa. His work on Afghanistan earned him both the Intelligence Commendation Medal and the Director's Award for Analysis. Nick subsequently served as Deputy Executive Secretary at the National Security Council, and later as Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for Southern Africa. More recently, Nick served as the Senior Bureau Official for African Affairs and helped set the strategic direction for US engagement throughout sub-Saharan Africa. He's made clear that the United States should approach African nations not merely as reciproent recipients of assistance, but as capable commercial and security partners. He's also worked to bring together American companies, African institutions and private capital in order to turn strategically important infrastructure and investment opportunities into concrete projects. Make no mistake, Nick is firmly committed to advancing President Trump's foreign policy and the interest of the American people. He recognizes that a strong, accountable partnership with Rwanda can advance regional security, support implementation of the Washington Accords, and create new opportunities for American trade and investment. Put simply, Nick has the judgment, the relationships, and the leadership that this consequential post demands. He's earned my trust, and I'm proud to support his nomination. Now I'd like to turn to my friend Bill Grayson. Bill and I have known one another for more than thirty years. We first met during the George H. W. Bush administration, when I was serving as a White House fellow and Bill was serving as principal deputy general counsel of the army. In the decades since, I've grown to see how Bill has put public service in his DNA. I was very close with Bill's father, a Korean War veteran, who served as principal deputy assistant secretary of the Navy under President Reagan. His parents instilled in him a deep love of country and a commitment to public service. Following that drive, Bill has held presidential appointments across five administrations. His services included the Department of the Army, the President's Commission on White House Fellowships, the National Park Foundation, and as chairman of the Presidio Trust. During his first term, President Trump nominated Bill to serve as U. S. Ambassador to Estonia. The Senate confirmed his nomination, but the timing and the extraordinary disruption of the COVID pandemic meant that he never had the opportunity to take up his post. President Trump later called on Bill to serve as the U. S. Commissioner for Expo twenty twenty-five Osaka with the rank of Ambassador. In that capacity, Bill led the USA Pavilion and served as senior representative of the United States government to Japan for the expo. Under his leadership, the USA Pavilion and the American team are recognized as number one among the one hundred and sixty countries that were represented. The American Chamber of Commerce in Japan has also named Bill its twenty twenty-five Person of the Year for his leadership in advancing the US-Japan relationship. Bill's record in the private sector is equally distinguished. He's built a successful career as a lawyer, as an investor, and as a trusted advisor to company founders, chief executives and others who depend upon Bill for his judgment. Having served as US Ambassador to Japan and having spent much of my own career in business, I know firsthand how valuable that combination of legal financial and commercial experience can be. Those skills will be especially important in Indonesia in Indonesia, which is an important partner on a range of issues that affect both economic and national security. President Trump's recent trade agreement creates new opportunities for American manufacturers, farmers, energy producers, and technology companies. These are exactly the type of opportunities that someone with Bill's background can utilize to make both the United States and Indonesia stronger. I trust Bill's character and his judgment, and know that he is ready to advance America's interest in Jakarta from day one. Uh, before recognizing Senator Kaine and inviting our nominees to deliver their opening remarks, I wanna thank each of you for answering the call to public service, and for your willingness to represent the United States abroad. Having served as a country ambassador myself, I know firsthand the responsibility that comes with this role. An ambassador is the president's representative, the leader of our mission, and the principal advocate for American citizens and American interest in the host country. Although your assignments span Central America, Africa, and the Indo-Pacific, each of you will be entrusted with the same essential mission, protecting Americans, advancing our economic and national security priorities, and ensuring that American diplomacy delivers concrete results. Ambassador Grayson, Indonesia is a strategically important Indo-Pacific partner. If confirmed, you'll need to deepen our economic and security relationship and advance cooperation across the region. Mister Ebru, if confirmed as ambassador to El Salvador, you'll be responsible for strengthening an important regional partnership, including our cooperation on security, migration, trade and investment. Mister Checker, if confirmed as ambassador to Rwanda, you'll have an important role in advancing implementation of the Washington Accords, supporting lasting peace in the Great Lakes region, and building stronger commercial ties with Rwanda. Miss Franceschi, if confirmed as ambassador to Nicaragua, you'll represent American interest in one of the most difficult diplomatic environments in our hemisphere. And you'll need to protect US citizens and support opportunities for Nicaragua to enjoy a more secure and a more prosperous future. Mister McIntyre, if confirmed as ambassador to Malawi, you will be tasked with strengthening our bilateral relationship, advancing greater self-reliance and accountability in our development partnership and expanding opportunities for trade and investment. I look forward to hearing from our nominees and to a productive discussion this morning. Senator Kaine, open to you.

I wanna thank my friend and colleague, Senator Hagerty, and congratulate each of the nominees. You've been nominated to serve in in really important posts and I look forward to hearing how you would approach them. Um, Senator Hagerty and I each have multiple conflicting hearings this morning, so you may see us in and out, and I assure you it's cuz we're trying to be in multiple places at once. Uh, no disrespect to the gravity of these nominations. Um, I wanna thank your family members, as Senator Hagerty did, for backing you up in in your service to the United States. Mister Abreu, my my team speaks very highly of their collaboration with you, when you were serving as a legislative fellow in former Senator Rubio's office. Let me start there. I have real concerns about the state of democracy and human rights in El Salvador. Um, Salvadorans deserve safety from gang violence, but the means of achieving that safety matters, and they can't come at the expense of the rule of law due process or a free press. Um, the case of Ruth Lopez is just one example. Ms. Lopez is a lawyer and human rights defender who dedicated her life to investigating corruption and promoting justice and transparency in her home country. She was arrested in El Salvador in May of twenty twenty five. She remains in pretrial detention. Many months later, like so many others. I hope to hear how you would engage with independent journalists and civil society organizations, and how you would raise concerns about Ms. Lopez and those like her, if you were confirmed. Um, Ms. Franceschi, I appreciate the experience that you would bring to a most difficult post in Nicaragua. Your background as a career diplomat will be very valuable to a country that faces deepening authoritarian backsliding. As you know, in July, President Ortega said there would be no more elections that would allow opposition to take power. If confirmed, you would take up this role at a really consequential moment for US-Nicaragua relations. Notably, Nicaragua has not had a Senate confirmed ambassador in place since twenty twenty three. Senator Cruz and I recently introduced bipartisan legislation reflecting our concerns about corruption human rights abuses and political repression in the nation I look forward to working with you and colleagues at the department on these issues should you be confirmed uh Mister Checker the United States has deported people to Rwanda who are not Rwandan citizens under an arrangement for Rwanda to receive third country deportees the administration has shared very few details about these arrangements. even with Congress. We need to know what happens after they arrive, whether they can contact family and counsel, what legal status they have, is there a means for them to demonstrate that they're wrongfully detained, and whether they could be sent onward to nations where they might face harm. I filed a resolution seeking a State Department report on those questions and Rwanda's human rights conditions. Part of a broader tranche of privileged resolutions that I filed demanding answers from the administration on all third-party deportation agreements that have thus far been shielded from congressional scrutiny I hope to hear how you would keep Congress informed about the treatment and status of people deported there from the United States um Mister Checker in addition Rwanda's role in the conflict in eastern Congo is another significant concern. Though some have claimed that the war has been settled fighting continues despite the Washington accords and the United States has sanctioned the Rwanda defense force for supporting the terrorist group M twenty three. I hope to hear how you would assess whether the accords are being implemented, and what more is needed to protect civilians and secure a lasting peace. Mister Grayson, Indonesia, critical security partner in the Indo-Pacific, our forces trained together uh through Super Garuda shield and we helped strengthen Indonesia's maritime capabilities. In the South China Sea, as you know, China's claims overlap with Indonesia's exclusive economic zone. I look forward to hearing how you would build on our security cooperation and help Indonesia protect its own rights at sea. And, Mister McIntyre, the the new US-Malawi health agreement is part of a broader shift that is giving partner governments greater responsibility for health programs previously supported through NGOs. I have questions about the goals of the transition and whether the transition will actually serve to protect access to care and provide adequate oversight of US funds. If confirmed, you'll be on the front lines of implementation of that agreement, and I would hope you would be candid with Congress about what's working and what can work better. Thanks for all of your willingness to serve, and I look forward to your testimony.

Thank you, Senator Kaine, and I'd like to turn now to the nominees themselves for you to give your opening remarks please make certain that your remarks remain below five minutes in duration Mr. Abreu I'd like to start with you.

Chairman Hagerty. Ranking Member Kaine and distinguished members of the committee, it is an honor to appear before you today as President Trump's nominee to serve as the next United States Ambassador to the Republic of El Salvador. I am grateful for the c- confidence President Trump has placed in me and to Secretary Rubio for his support and vision for our hemisphere. My path to this room had humble origins. I was born on the beautiful island of Puerto Rico, raised by my mother and late grandfather and shaped by many teachers and mentors. Before nearly a decade in the United States Air Force, a brief tenure as a management consultant, and then nearly two decades of clandestine service at the Central Intelligence Agency, including tours as chief of station in Latin America. I had pri- privilege of working on Capitol Hill as a congressional fellow in then-Senator Rubio's office. To the young people watching, my story from a small island to this room is proof that merit matters in this country. Hard work, initiative and discipline can take you as far as you are willing to go. From day one, President Trump has been clear that American foreign policy exists to serve American interests first. Every relationship we build abroad must answer three questions. Does it make America stronger? Does it make America safer? And does it make America more prosperous? Our strategic relationship with El Salvador delivers on all three standards. If confirmed, I will work to keep it that way. A decade ago, it was the murder capital of the world. Today, El Salvador is one of the safest countries in the Western Hemisphere. A turn-around driven by President Bukele, whom Secretary Rubio has called the strongest security leader in our region. That transformation makes America stronger. A capable, self-reliant partner in our own hemisphere shares the burden of security instead of adding to it. Freeing American resources for pri- pri- for priorities at home, and keeping this region out of Beijing's orbit. We should also use every effective regional mechanism available to reinforce that security cooperation and protect our shared interests. It makes America safer, too. El Salvador stands with us against MS thirteen, Barrio dieciocho, and other narco-terrorist networks the Trump administration has rightfully designated as threats to our communities. stopping crime and illegal immigration at their source rather than at our border. And it makes America more prosperous. The national security strategy makes clear that every U.S. official must help U.S. firms compete and succeed overseas. I will ensure that embassy teams identify strategic acquisition and investment opportunities for American companies especially through government tenders. Additionally, this year's agreement on reciprocal trade, the first of its kind in our hemisphere, cements the United States as El Salvador's top trading partner by a wide margin. A prosperous El Salvador is a magnet, not a launching pad. Salvadorans who once looked north for opportunity now find their home, starting businesses, drawing investment, and creating jobs in their own communities. If confirmed, I am committed to leading the US mission in El Salvador with honor and fortitude, faithfully representing President Trump's America First foreign policy. I read to work, I pledged to work collaboratively with Congress and El Salvadoran allies, respecting their sovereignty and cementing the security gains achieved. To build on this success and set the standards the rest of Central America can follow. The prosperity we build together will draw even greater American investment, and bring lasting abundance to both our nations. Mister Chairman, ranking member, I have carried three words with me since my first day at the Air Force Academy. Integrity, service, and excellence. I carry them through every single assignment since, and I will carry them into San Salvador. Faithfully representing American interest, upholding the Constitution, answering to this committee and to the American people every step of the way.

Thank you, Mr. Abreu. Mr. Checker.

Uh, thank you. Chairman Hagerty, Ranking Member Kaine, distinguished members of the committee, it is an honor to be President Trump's nominee to be the United States Ambassador to the Republic of Rwanda. Please allow me to begin by thanking my family, in particular my husband Dylan. I would also like to offer my s- Appreciation to our parents, Rob and Diane Checker, and Doug and Christy Barclay. I'm truly grateful for their support and special thanks to you Senator Hagerty for that very kind introduction. If confirmed, I pledge to work closely with this committee to promote US interests in Rwanda, and to build a bilateral relationship that contributes to a safer, stronger and more prosperous America. Having had the privilege of working for Senator Hagerty, I understand firsthand the critical role of congressional oversight, and I hope to be in a position to welcome members and their staff on a visit to Kigali. Secretary Rubio has spoken of his hope that uh America remains a nation where anyone from anywhere can achieve anything. As the son of a blue-collar community in Wisconsin, and the first in my family to attend college, I know that promise firsthand, and being here today as the President's nominee is proof of it. Public service carries a profound responsibility, especially in a role that demands engagement with nations whose histories continue to shape their present and future. Any discussion of Rwanda must be direct about the country's history. Just thirty-two years ago, Rwanda endured the genocide against the Tutsi, in which nearly a million Tutsi were murdered. Since then, Rwanda has undertaken a path that is by any historic measure extraordinary, restoring security, rebuilding institutions, and creating a national identity that overcomes the divisions that made such violence possible. This required leadership, willing to make difficult, sometimes stark choices in the immediate aftermath of catastrophe, and to develop an enduring sense of self-reliance that continues to define Rwanda today. While there's much to admire in Rwanda's achievement, I readily acknowledge that every nation bears the marks of human imperfection, and the purpose of our foreign policy is the protection of American national interests. If confirmed, I would engage in an America first diplomacy grounded in strategic humility, respect for sovereignty, quiet leverage on values-based issues, and pragmatic collaboration on mutual interests. As ambassador, I would have no higher priority than US citizens in Rwanda, and the safety and security of embassy staff. I would also lead the team of outstanding diplomats there to expand our trade and investment relationship and advance regional stability in the Great Lakes. The Washington Accords are an important step towards lasting peace, but their success depends on full and verifiable compliance by all parties. If confirmed, I will work to advance this process and press Rwanda to meet its commitments, including by ending actions that destabilize the eastern DRC. The United States seeks a strong, positive relationship with Rwanda, but its government first must live up to its commitments to President Trump. At the same time, I will advocate to expand political and economic engagement, including new opportunities for US businesses, and I will work closely closely with our partners in the region to address global issues like the current Ebola crisis. Again, this nomination is the honor of a lifetime. I thank the chair and ranking member for the opportunity to be here today, and I look forward to your questions. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Checker, Ambassador Grayson.

Uh, I'm also honored and indebted to you and to ranking member Kaine for your incredible service to our country and to the Indo-Pacific and to the US-Indonesian relationship. Uh, Chairman Hagerty, right, ranking member Kane, and distinguished members of the committee, I'm humbled to appear before you as President Trump's nominee to be ambassador to Indonesia. I'm grateful for President Trump and Secretary Rubio's remarkable strength on the global stage. I pledge to follow their lead, always putting America first and relentlessly promoting the interests of the American people. Before I begin, I'd like to recognize and acknowledge my family, especially who are all sitting right behind me, especially my wife, Lori, for her love and support. We're also blessed with three wonderful daughters. Catherine and Caroline are here with us today, my daughter at the last minute. who's in her third week at Harvard Business School, could not miss that class. Um, but thrilled to have uh their love and participation. I also want to thank um as you did, Chairman Hagerty, my incredible parents, E. C. and Jean Grayson, who are clearly smiling from heaven, uh looking down on us. And it was they who early on introduced me and my sister Darby to the wonders of the world through travel, including to the spectacular country of Indonesia. They also instilled in me duty, honor, country, as my dad so ably served uh this country in the Korean War, as you mentioned, and under President Reinge as Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Navy. The USA's relationship with Indonesia is strong. Our comprehensive strategic partnership reflects a joint commitment to make our countries and Southeast Asia broadly safer, stronger, and more prosperous. The United States is proud to be Indonesia's greatest defense partner, based on decades of security cooperation, including our combat against transnational crime and terrorism. That cooperation means more partnership in areas such as maritime domain awareness and stopping criminal scam syndicates. We also have a long-standing defense initiative, as ranking member Kane said, especially with the annual Super Garuda Shield exercise. We look forward to even greater cooperation with Indonesia both in Southeast Asia and around the world. However, there are challenges too. If confirmed, I will have important conversations on how to turbocharge the growth potential in our bilateral trade and investment, including the full implementation of the agreement on reciprocal trade that was signed in February of this year by President Trump and President Prabowo. As Indonesia works to attract more high-quality investment, I will use my decades as an investment professional and my legal expertise to help US companies win while working to reduce trade barriers in Indonesia and to streamline investment rules. Also, as Indonesia plays a larger role on the global stage and in developing new technologies, especially AI, I will ensure that US companies have the best opportunity to be a part of those ambitions, and most importantly, those solutions. If confirmed, I'm excited about the opportunity to work with President Prabowo and the people of Indonesia. They play a strong and important leadership role in Asia and beyond as the largest Muslim majority nation and the third largest democracy in the world I look forward to engaging with them on global matters that enhance our mutual security and prosperity. As you noted, uh, Mister Chairman, as Commissioner General Ambassador in charge of the USA Pavilion at Expo twenty twenty five in Japan I fought for American interests and for American success. Every day I was honored to show the world the strength, innovation and greatness of the United States. Over twenty nine million people visited Expo Osaka and as you mentioned, Mister Chairman, of the hundred and sixty participating countries there, the USA was voted number one for its pavilion and number one for its team. If confirmed, I will work just as hard for President Trump and the American people in leading our talented diplomats at mission Indonesia. I'd like to close by saying that this nomination is the honor of a lifetime. If confirmed, I will work relentlessly to make the US-Indonesia relationship the strongest that it's ever been. Distinguished Senators, thank you again for your time today, if confirmed, it would be my distinct honor to once again serve the greatest country in the world, the United States of America. Thank you.

Thank you. Thank you, Ambassador Grayson. Miss Franceschi.

Chairman Hagerty, Ranking Member Kaine, distinguished members of this committee. I am honored to appear before you today as President Trump's nominee to serve as the United States Ambassador to the Republic of Nicaragua. I thank the President and Secretary Rubio for the confidence that they have placed in me. If confirmed, I will work closely with all of you to advance US interest in Nicaragua and to support Nicaraguan's rights to decide their country's future. I am joined today by my mother, Hillary, without whose encouragement I would not be here today. She has visited me at every one of my eight overseas postings, except Iraq, and as embassy colleagues throughout the years can attest, no one represents the United States at an Independence Day celebration, with greater pride and joy than my mom. of my partner, Ambassador Steven Fagan, who joins us virtually from Baghdad. As a foreign service couple, we have served the American people together in multiple assignments, as well as during lengthy separations. I would not be here without the support and guidance of other family members, lifelong friends who have traveled from California to join me today, and colleagues from across the foreign and civil service. who have tuned in online. I am deeply grateful for all of their support. I have built my twenty-five year career for in the foreign service promoting and protecting American interests in some of the world's most complicated political environments. I have advanced US policies in sensitive contexts, held the line with undemocratic regimes that violate their citizens' human rights and religious freedom, and responded to every challenge with clarity, discipline, and fidelity to the United States Constitution. Throughout my career, I have worked on the questions that define my nomination, how to bring authoritarians to the table, and work with governments committed to peace and stability, to navigate away from brutal regimes, and give voice to the will of people suffering under tyranny. The status quo in Nicaragua is intolerable to its people, its neighbors, and to the United States. President Trump has reasserted American preeminence in the Western hemisphere and has secured our national security interests, making the region safer, stronger, and more prosperous. In Nicaragua, this means protecting American citizens and U. S. commercial interests. stopping immigrate illegal immigration, disrupting and deterring adversarial alliances, and ending the human rights and religious freedom crisis. If confirmed, I will sustain diplomatic pressure towards a solution in Nicaragua that advances American prosperity and security.

Mm-hmm.

I will make it clear that the administration will not tolerate threats and abuses including confiscation of US owned properties and assets, and repression of Christians, particularly the Catholic Church and its parishioners. I will use the full range of diplomatic tools and support our voice for freedom at the OAS, including through the foreign ministerial process underway that is garnering significant collective regional support. I will also work with those committed to our same goals to ensure that Nicaragua cannot challenge a stronger, safer, more prosperous and more free Western hemisphere. If confirmed, I am confident that working with this committee, we can secure US interests and deliver real results for the American people. I will never lose sight of the Nicaraguan people, whether at home, or in exile, who all deserve better than their captors and abusers. It is well past time that Nicaragua return into the fold of prosperous American nations, free from totalitarianism. Mister Chairman, Ranking Member, Committee members, thank you for your consideration. I look forward to your questions.

Thank you, Miss Borteski. Mister McIntyre.

Good morning, Chairman Hagerty, Ranking Member Kaine. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you. I am honored by the trust President Trump and Secretary Rubio have placed in me with this nomination. I would not be here today without the support of my family. My parents, Kurt and Midge McIntyre instilled in me, as well as my sister Catherine, who is sitting behind me, and Courtney, the value of service, especially to our great nation. My foreign service career brought me to Kosovo where I met my amazing wife, Flora Zolfiei. Flora, along with her parents, Rujdi and Fatime Zolfiei, embody perseverance and grace. Flora and I strive to follow the excellent examples our parents set with our own children, Emma and Ian. I have been privileged to serve twenty-seven years in the foreign service, and over a third of my career as a charge d'affaires or deputy chief of mission at our embassies in Brunei, Trinidad and Tobago, Jamaica and Vietnam. If confirmed, I will utilize my experience and expertise to lead and mentor the outstanding team at US Embassy Malawi. Under President Trump, the United States and Africa are entering a new era of cooperation. We are resetting our relationship from those based on aid towards trade, investment and mutual benefit. If confirmed, I believe I can translate that vision into tangible results in Malawi. The country offers opportunities to strengthen the US supply chain for critical minerals. Malawi holds the world's largest known ru tile deposit, the second largest graphite deposit, and significant reserves of rare earths and uranium, resources essential to the American manufacturing and national security. If confirmed, I will facilitate increased US investment in Malawi across sectors Building on the success of recent deals involving US and US aligned firms. This is an important moment for US-Malawi bilateral relations. Malawi's President Arthur Peter Mutarika has made clear he wants his government to partner with the United States to advance commercial interest. A January twenty twenty-six landmark health memorand memorandum of understanding being implemented under the America first global health strategy is protecting both American and Malawian lives while ensuring accountability and co-investment from Malawi. Malawi has made huge gains in the fight against HIV AIDS as a result of US foreign assistance making America safer and stronger. If confirmed, protecting American citizens and deepening our commercial ties will guide me. I will work to open doors for American companies and ensure that Malawi's mining, energy and infrastructure sectors are supported by American investment. The United States and Malawi share many opportunities for cooperation. If confirmed, I will work diligently to advance American interests, uphold American values, and strengthen a relationship that can deliver benefits for both of our nations. I look forward to your questions.

Thank you. We're gonna go a bit out of order today because um two of my colleagues have uh hearings that they have to get to. I'm gonna start with Senator Kaine and then I'll move to Senator Vandenberg.

Thank you, Mister Chair, and thanks to the witnesses. I was a missionary in Honduras in nineteen eighty and eighty one, have a lot of friends in the region, including friends in Nicaragua and El Salvador and friends in Virginia who are from Nicaragua and El Salvador, uh largely because they've they've fled uh either civil war or violence, um in their community, so I'm gonna focus my questions to you. Mr. Abreu and Miss uh Franceschi. So, Mr. Abreu, I mentioned the case of Ruth Lopez, she investigated alleged corruption by senior Salvadoran officials, um and documented human rights abuses. She's been detained since May twenty twenty five. The Inter-American Commission on Human Rights finds that her situation presents a serious and urgent risk of irreparable harm. If confirmed, will you personally examine her case and ask Salvadoran authorities to provide access to her family and counsel, and guarantee her due process rights.

Think of your question, Senator. I also wanna thank you for your service, uh and for the kind words uh you said about my uh contributions in with your team in twenty twenty four uh I echo them as well. They you're you have a terrific team and uh it was a real pleasure and honor working with them to the specific allegations uh that you that you brought up, I take all allegations of human rights abuses extremely seriously. Um unfortunately, as I am still a nominee at this point, I am not fully aware of all the internal uh cables and and deliberations on on that particular case that you brought up. But what I can do, what I can assure you is that uh if confirmed, as a matter of duty, I will take every single allegation, not just individual ones, but every single allegations of human rights abuses, uh by the government uh very seriously. And I will empower my team to faithfully pursue all facts to the fullest extent so that we can report safely back to you and the committee on the annual human rep human rights report per the law commands. I I I

I think I I appreciate that.

yeah. Yeah.

Um and and you and I both know allegations can be made that aren't true,

Yeah. Yeah.

but when an allegation is backed up by an organization like the Inter-American Human Rights Commission, that gives it a a l a level of validity that I think does require that it be examined. And anybody who is detained uh for something i as in the case of Ms. Lopez a journalist ought to have access to counsel and family, and so I hope you would take that into consideration. Let me ask you another question. Um, Human Rights Watch interviewed former Seacut detainees transferred there by the United States. They documented allegations of repeated beatings, sexual violence and prolonged detention without contact with families or lawyers. Um, if confirmed, will you raise those findings with Salvadoran officials and and seek uh answers that you find to be credible about the allegations?

Thank you for that question again, Senator. The the matter of Seacott in and all the various allegations, I am very well familiar uh with them.

Yep.

I've seen the documentaries, I read all the reports. But it is important again to understand that from the outside's perspective, these allegations look seriously a- and and they may very well be, but until I am there on the ground and can personally attest to their validity with the team's report, all I have to go on is the the most recent Human Rights Report, which stated that there are no credible allegations of human rights violations. So my pledge to you is to give that a fresh look if confirmed. Once they get there.

And I think that's important because frankly a lot of members of the committee don't find that credible uh with the the the State Department report credible when there's so much independent evidence suggesting there are violations. Yeah, here's one that I think is really important in that same space. If Salvadoran authorities deny US officials access to people transferred by the United States so deny US officials access to people transferred by the United States, will you inform the committee of that?

Uh s- thank you again for for that question, Senator. Just to clarify, deny uh US officials access to Americans in those detention facilities?

To p- to people transferred by the United States. So it would be the embassy or embassy officials on a likelihood. If the US embes ambassador or embassy officials seek access to those who have been transferred there by the United States, whatever their nationality, to determine whether human rights are being violated or whether they have the ability to demonstrate that they're not the person who should be detained. So if if the US if US officials seek access and the access is denied by the

So if that access is denied

Salvadoran government will you report that to this committee?

Yes, Senator.

Thank you. Uh, Miss Franceschi, one question very uh quickly, you you're familiar with the uh what we Senator Cruz and I have put on the table, and that's for us to resolve here, it's a legislative matter not for yours, but um it's a very important one. What will you do to strengthen the embassy's outreach and consular services for US citizens visiting or living in Nicaragua and that's the only question I have for you.

Thank you very much, Senator. There is no higher priority than the safety and security of US citizens. Um, so um I would be fully committed to ensuring that the US embassy in Managua provides the highest um standards of services to Americans living um or working or visiting uh Nicaragua.

And and thank you for that. I'd I'd like to go further, but I'm over time and I really appreciate the chairman allowing me to go first, so I can go to my armed services here and congratulations to all.

Thanks, Eric. It's a good office.

Uh.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, first of all, for letting me um ask some questions. I appreciate it. Um, Mister Abreu, I wanna follow up with you on some of the issues that Senator Kaine raised, but first I just wanna say something about the Trump administration's decision not to extend TPS protection for El Salvador. They they've not extended that protection and we're very worried that they will then officially terminate it. Right now you have lots of people who've lived in the United States with legal status, in some cases for twenty years, started small businesses that could find themselves uprooted and deported tomorrow if the administration takes the next step. Now, the State Department only has an advisory role on this. It's primarily DHS. But I'm really urging uh the Trump administration not to take the next step. Already didn't extend, But terminating would create havoc and in my view, great unfairness to an important uh community that's had legal status. Uh, as you well know, uh, President Bukele calls himself the world's coolest dictator. That's what he calls himself. Um, watching what he's doing, he's not very cool, but he has effectively become a dictator by erasing very important rights, including judicial review stacking the courts. Uh, as I'm sure you're aware, back in two thousand and twenty-two, he declared a state of exception, essentially martial law, allowing the government to roll over people's rights. It was supposed to be for thirty days. It's been four years. That's what President Bukele is doing, so I'm I'm glad Senator Kaine raised the issue of Ruth Lopez. I I met with her when I was in El Salvador. She's since been locked up. I met with her husband here. And any fair reading of the facts shows that she is a political prisoner. And so I listened to your response to Senator Kaine understanding that you're not currently in this position and are not evaluating these charges against her. But let me just say, as he said, this has been reviewed. She is a political prisoner based on all the facts. And I would hope that the United States Ambassador, if confirmed, that you would um stand up uh for for dis for for the rights of El Salvadorian people, and certainly for the rights of the US citizens. I mean, the State Department says its highest priority is the safety and security of American citizens abroad. Do you agree with that?

Yes, Senator.

Okay. So if you look at the State Department website today, you'll also see that it says, and I'm quoting, several US citizens have been detained under the state of exception. They have yet to face a trial, unquote. That's the State Department's own web site. At least one of them is a Marylander. So as the US Ambassador, will you make sure, number one, that we get all the information on these cases and make sure that they have their full rights extended to them?

Yes, Senator.

and that anybody who we determine is wrongfully detained, that we will get them back to the United States.

Senator, my pledge to you is that if we determine as a matter of fact that there are people wrongfully detained, that I will empower my entire team to do everything within our reach to set them free and ma- and deliver uh on that pledge to our citizens.

Thank you. Are you familiar with the front-line PBS program where they partnered with El Farah, which is a anti-corruption organization in El Salvador that's been under attack from the government. But they have an investigative documentary that appeared a mu number of months ago, and it's entitled The Deal, Trump, Bukele and the Gangs of El Salvador. Are you familiar with that?

Yes, Senator, I've seen it.

So you're you're aware of the fact that the United States had arrested and detained a top MS thirteen operative, Huberto Lopez Cesar Huberto Lopez Lario. You're familiar with that, right?

Uh, yes, Senator, I am familiar with the allegation that that happened, but uh to to s- to call it a fact, uh I wouldn't I wouldn't dare do that from the perspective and the information that I have been uh made aware of.

Well, I think it's a matter of of public record that we arrested and detained him. Um, what's really troubling is the circumstances under which we returned him to El Salvador. Uh, one former US federal agent called that a, quote, historic loss of intelligence. And the allegation is that we, the United States, sent him back at Bukele's request because he had information about how Bukele had been doing deals with MS thirteen back in El Salvador. Are you aware of those allegations?

Yes, Senator, I am aware of those allegations.

Well, I I do think this committee uh should be looking into what happened here because um all of a sudden someone who was a high level MS thirteen operative did not serve time here based on very serious allegations against him He's back in El Salvador to my knowledge. Um, he's faced no penalties there, which does suggest that there was a deal with President Bukele who got MS thirteen to agree to support his election in exchange for essentially him laying off. I'm gonna pursue this further and uh we'll look forward to any further conversations. Thank you, Mister Chairman.

Thank you, Senator Von Hollen. Um, Mister Grayson, I'm gonna begin with you with a line of questions. Uh, first I'd like to talk with you about the success of the Osaka Expo. Um, as former ambassador of Japan, I have great admiration for what you did in terms of displaying American excellence at the expo. Uh, if I think about it, you led the planning, you led the execution of the US pavilion, and as you mentioned, uh, more than a million visitors attended the expo. I think you said eighteen million. Was that the correct number?

Uh, the correct number, uh,

it was twenty nine million that were obtained and we had two Twenty nine million. million that were obtained inside the exhibit at the USA Those are outstanding numbers. Um, I I w- wanted if you if you would just take a moment to summarize what you were able to achieve on behalf of the American people through the expo.

Yeah. Thank you for the question, Mr. Chairman. Uh, I would say it's the world's greatest opportunity for public diplomacy, uh, for the United States of America, being able to reach that. audience of that size and send our message of the greatness of the United States in technology, culturally, innovation, freedom, uh, it really sent a powerful message. And I think most importantly, uh, the message that was sent that was the that really resonated was that we weren't just there for expo. We were there to support one of our greatest allies, who you know so well, Japan, And we were also there very prominently, significantly in the Indo-Pacific projecting the power and strength of the United States.

You know, uh uh outstanding. Um, Mister Grayson, in April, the United States and Indonesia announced the establishment of the Major Defense Cooperation Partnership. It's a framework that's intended to elevate capacity building, training and operational coordination between our militaries. Would you mind to share with us your view on this agreement? and and particularly um how you're gonna enhance security cooperation between the United States and Indonesia.

Yes, th- thank you, Mr. Chairman, for the for the question. Yes, that was uh signed in April by Secretary Hegseth and the uh Indonesian Defense Minister, and it's a very important and timely um uh partnership, and it increases um um military modernization It increases the professional training uh of the Indonesian armed forces, which is very much needed, and it further uh enhances and builds upon Super Garuda shield and the approximately two hundred other uh exercises that we do with Indonesia every year.

I I think these exercises are incredibly important if you think about extending our capacity if you think about the interoperability that we're trying to achieve with allies it's absolutely critical and I appreciate your attention Let's turn to critical minerals now in Indonesia. Uh, I think we we all know how important critical minerals are to our economic security to our national security. I think many of us also know that China has i exerted extraordinary leverage in this arena, and particularly uh i if you look at the supply chains globally for critical minerals China has taken some very concerning positions. Um, Indonesia is particularly important to us, if you think about it, Indonesia is the largest producer of nickel. and also is a significant uh producer of copper, cobalt and other strategic minerals. Um, China has taken a very dominant position in nickel. And uh, if you are confirmed Ambassador Grayson, I'd like to to hear your thoughts on how you would expand US investment, US presence in the critical mineral arena and how we would accommodate that in our supply chains.

Sure. Thank you, uh, Mister Chairman. Um, yeah, a couple of things. I mean, given where Indonesia sits in the critical Indo-Pacific, and straddling the Indian Ocean, the Pacific Ocean, the Strait of Hormuz where eighty percent of all uh China's energy um shipping passes uh and with two hundred and ninety million people uh in a G-twenty country, it's really important that we look uh closely at the at the critical minerals piece. Um China has clearly had a big head start They've got a ten year operation on the refining and mining of nickel. Of course, Indonesia has the largest nickel reserves in the world, and they've got sixty five billion dollars invested in infrastructure, um, uh, related to nickel reserves and critical minerals. So they've got the head start. However, uh, post the agreement on reciprocal trade and President Prabowo's interest in diversifying that risk away. This has created an opportunity for the United States of America, uh, to really play a meaningful part, some of it's downstream in the in the refining, but the art also lifted the, uh, export restrictions that had previously existed, especially with the raw, uh, materials.

Mm.

And so I think it's a big opportunity Mm-hmm. And as I sit here as a uh businessman, uh, I look at what's the upside potential, uh, broadly, and certainly in critical minerals it's not only a national security and economic security issue, but it's one that can benefit uh, both companies and and the US citizens and ultimately Indonesia too.

Uh, I I look forward to your progress in this dimension. I think it's gonna be a absolutely critical part of your portfolio, if you're confirmed. Mister Checker, uh, a quick question for you, if I might, um. The peace deal that was negotiated uh between Rwand and the DRC has uh attained a lot of notoriety, a lot of credit goes to President Trump for doing this, but if you think about the Washington Accords, I'd just like to get your perspective on how you're going to support those, how you're going to ensure that peace is lasting in Rwanda.

Um, thank you for the question, Senator. Just like to say at the top, this is a really a milestone achievement, thanks to President Trump's leadership, the sustained high level diplomacy of the secretary as well as senior advisor Bullos, and it's really the most meaningful advance towards resolving this decades-long conflict in its history. But why the agreement matters is what we're trying to do ultimately is transform in a licit mineral sector dominated by the Chinese to one that's licit where US companies are preeminent. The uh Regional Economic and Investment Framework has firm commitments on the part of the DRC and the Rwandans on transparency, traceability that US firms need to source the tin, tantalum, uh and uh tungsten that's has major defense applications, consumer electronic applications, and so what we're really offering is a mutually beneficial proposition that says, let's help secure our s critical supply chains, but at the same time create a transparent sound investment climate for the betterment of the folks there. So this is really economic integration for peace. But as as you said at the top in your question, implementation is the central challenge here with the Washington Accords, and we need to see both parties respect territorial integrity, stop cease support to armed groups, and that means the DRC suspending its support to the uh or neutralize the FDLR, and Rwanda stop its de-stabilizing activity in eastern Congo. So if confirmed as ambassador, um what I would advocate for is continuing to put firm pressure on the Rwandans to comply with their commitments under the accords. That means again withdrawing its forces from eastern DRC, suspending its support to the M-twenty-three, while at the same time uh cooperating where our interests converge. So there's a clear credible pathway to sanctions relief. if this issue is resolved. So my really my key message to President Kagame would be, you know, this discrete issue needs to be resolved in order to unlock the full potential that's offered by the Washington Court as part of the reef and to deepen cooperation in other areas.

Great. Thank you. Um, I'm going to step to another hearing for a moment to make another introduction and I'm gonna ask Senator Ricketts to take the gavel. I'll be back as soon as I can. Thank you.

Sarah Rosen.

Thank you, Senator Ricketts. I appreciate that. I'm just gonna get right into it. Thank you for uh all the witnesses for being here today, for your willingness to serve, and um I wanna build on Senator Van Hollen's points on TPS. So, El Salvador. On September ninth, the Department of Homeland Security allowed the current temporary protected status or TPS designation for El Salvador to expire without announcing whether it would be extended or terminated. That leaves approximately a hundred and seventy thousand Salvadorans, including thousands who live and work in Nevada, in profound uncertainty about their future in the United States, despite many having lived here for decades. TPS recipients from El Salvador fled devastation more than twenty years ago, and TPS recipients from all over the world have since built their lives in the US, raising families, contributing to our economy, and enriching our communities. Now these families and individuals are living in uncertainty day in and day out with no word from DHS on their status, no word. They're living in fear they'll wake up one morning to a DHS announcement forcing them to return to El Salvador where authorities have committed wide-spread abuses, including mass arbitrary detention, forced disappearance, torture and due process violations. So, Mister Abreu, I know the TPS determination lies with the Department of Homeland Security. However, in preparation for your nomination you have a- have you asked DHS when a final determination will be made and in your view if the administration were to end TPS, what role would you play in ensuring the safety and security of those individuals forced out of the United States if confirmed?

Thank you for that question, Senator. The TPS issue, as you well stated, is a determination exclusively reserved for the Department of Homeland Security and its secretary and as a result it and from my perspective as a nominee it would it would not have been appropriate for me to inquire as an outsider uh on that internal determina determination. It's a compartmented decision.

But if confirmed

Mm-hmm.

you are going to be the ambassador. So if confirmed, how would you help our uh uh folks, our TPS holders and their families deal with this.

Yeah, thank you again, Senator. That is the priority. If confirmed as ambassador, my role would be to empower the entire country team in the embassy to do everything they can to support that transition back into El Salvador. As you well know, El Salvador uh has has has seen a remarkable turn around which some have called miraculous because of the numbers are all pointing in in the right direction whether whether it be from security whether it be from education, prosperity, so I would wanna see our partnerships with the institutions of El Salvador be tighter than ever so that we can assure that not just from the US perspective, but from the Salvadoran perspective they're ready as well.

Many of these are mixed status families with children that are American citizens

Right.

that have rights to go back and forth so I look forward to working with you on that, we have a lot of TPS holders in Nevada and um their safety and security and their family safety and security is top of mind. I'm gonna move on to Mister Checker now, building on Senator Hagerty's line of questioning on um critical minerals, but I wanna talk about illicit conflict minerals trade. Rwanda, we know Rwanda has a role in facilitating the trafficking, refining of gold and other conflict minerals out of eastern DRC, it's well documented. profits from the illicit mineral trade, they fuel conflict and instability in eastern DRC, and more must be done to disrupt the conflict mineral networks in the region. So, Mister Checker, if you're confirmed, what steps would you take to help transform the illicit flows of these minerals into responsible trans into a responsible transparent trade, if that's possible?

Uh, thank you for the question, Senator. Um, readily admit Rwanda has mixed motives for being an eastern DRC. both the FDLR threat but also the exploitation of uh illicit mining networks. I think this administration has taken steps already in sanctioning entities responsible for illicit mining, but ultimately to address the broader question and concern you raise about illicit mining it goes to successful implementation of the Washington courts and the reef as I outlined in my response to Senator Hagerty that's the pathway to transition this illicit sector to one that is licit. Thank you.

Uh thank you, I'm gonna move on now to um My next question again, uh, for Mister Abreu, uh, about Seacat prison. Because the Trump administration worked with the government of El Salvador to deport hundreds of people from the US to El Salvador where for months, they were detained at the notorious Seacat prison. Everyone seen the photos there. Detainees were reportedly subjected to sexual violence, beaten for requesting medical treatment, held without the ability to communicate with family or legal counsel, and given water for bathing and drinking that contained vermin and worms. The United States once stood as a protector and a champion of human rights around the world. And our embassy served as beacons of that commitment, working to document, support and defend human rights in countries around the globe. So, Mister Broiff, confirmed, can you assure the committee, this committee and the American people that you will not facilitate

Thank you for that question, Senator. Uh, I take all allegations of human rights abuses anywhere.

Mm.

extremely seriously. I also think that we in the United States are still a beacon of freedom and democracy and protection of human rights. And I respectfully uh must say that the allegations that are uh are that you refer to, uh they are allegations at this point and I take them seriously, but I have the record

Let me ask you this question, if they're allegations, will you allow your embassy staff to report through cables or other official documentation if they do see these abuses to our government? Will you allow that transparency?

Yes, Senator. That is our obligation under the law.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Great, thank you. Well, first of all, thank you all for your willingness to serve our great country and especially those who are the career folks I know that uh uh my experience has been great, uh at every embassy around the world and you all sacrificed time away from your friends and family to be able to serve our nation and represent our country so thank you all very much and to your families for the sacrifices you make, uh on the behalf of the of the nation. Mister Grayson, I wanna talk to you a little bit about Indonesia. Now Nebraska is the second largest ethanol producing state in the country. We have twenty-four bio-refineries and produce about capacity to produce about two point three billion gallons of ethanol each year. and it's important market for our Nebraska corn and supports jobs in rural communities across my state. In February, the United States, Indonesia and Indonesia signed a new trade agreement that could create a significant new market for Nebraska ethanol. Importantly, Indi- Indonesia has agreed not to impose measures that prevent US ethanol from being imported into Indonesia. This will mark a significant improvement in market access, as US ethanol has historically faced a thirty percent tariff um and other regulatory barriers. Additionally, once enforced, this agreement also requires Indonesia to implement a policy for transportation fuels intend to increase the blends from E five and twenty twenty eight up to E ten and twenty thirty and the goal of re- eventually reaching E twenty these higher uh blending rates could significantly increase the Indonesia's Indonesia's demand for ethanol. Now, Indonesia hopes to meet much of its demand through domestic production, but US ethanol could fill in the supply gaps. If confirmed, how will you work to ensure that this agreement is fully implemented and that American ethanol including ethanol produced in with Nebraska corn has a fair opportunity to um meet Indonesia's growing demand?

Yep. Senator Ricketts, thank you for that question. Uh, yes, the agreement on reciprocal trade that was signed uh by President Prabho and President Trump uh certainly removed, as you said, that thirty percent tariff. and a number of other uh non-tariff barriers to ethanol. The um the Opportunity set and I uh if confirmed as ambassador uh also operate as the uh Chief Salesman for the United States of America.

Right.

Ethanol is at the top of that list and as you stated the movement from hopefully two E five and twenty twenty eight and E ten in twenty thirty creates a one billion gallon opportunity for the ethanol producers in your great state. So that is something that is critical to prevail upon and win uh that mandate. And so um my intention would be to certainly work with the USTR, uh certainly work with the members of the administration, including with the president himself to ensure that the um the current state of the art is not just uh words but those commitments are realized in actual sales of ethanol to Indonesia.

Yeah, and I would also highlight again uh they said they wanna make a lot of their demand from their own domestic, certainly that's fair, but I also wanna make sure that we have a fair shot at this, so how will you make sure that they're not putting up non-tariff trade barriers to our US ethanol.

Um, Senator, ag- again, a a great question. Um, my answer to that would be that uh President Prabowo, despite that as as you say, the desire to have self-sufficiency by twenty thirty in the energy space, that uh he is very much incented to have uh commercial agreements with the United States. He needs it. Um, having um the ethanol from Nebraska is a critical piece of that, and so I will pound on the uh Proboa uh cabinet to ensure that that happens with my uh appropriate inter-agency partners.

Great. Well, not only do we produce a lot of ethanol in Nebraska, we also are a leading exporter of beef in my state as well. Nebraska is the beef state. And um expanding access to the growing overseas markets is critical for our economy. The Trump administration has already delivered new market access for American beef in markets like the United Kingdom. Nebraska's beef producers are the best in the world and can meet any consumers' needs in their markets. So for example, in the EU and the, yeah, and the UK, our producers participate in USDA's non-hormone treated cattle program for that marketplace. So again, we can meet the customer's demand. In Indonesia, it requires halal beef. And our producers are willing and able to meet that requirement as well. That's why Indonesia, a Muslim nation with more than two hundred and eighty million people, represents a significant opportunity for American beef producers. Uh, once enforced, the February trade agreement could substantially expand U. S. access to this key market. Indonesia is committed to purchase fifty thousand metric tons of beef and beef products annually. The agreement also addresses long-standing barriers that have limited U. S. exports, including restrictive import licensing and burdensome approval requirements for individual U. S. processing facilities. This could ultimately boost the U. S. beef exports to Indonesia to four or five hundred million dollars annually in the near term. Mister Grayson, if confirmed, what specifically will you do as ambassador to ensure Indonesia follows through on its fifty thousand metric ton purchase commitments, and its commitment to remove non-tariff trade barriers so Nebraska cattle producers a can have a meaningful and consistent access to the Indonesian market.

Senator Ricketts, thank you for that great question. Uh, just uh as a personal note, uh, I love beef. Uh, I'll I'll say that.

Good. Good.

Uh, so that's a good start. And I'll also say that I worked um uh during high school um or college in on one of the largest cattle ranches in California.

Oh, okay.

So I know the industry and I appreciate the uh concerns of the cattlemen uh in Nebraska. Um, the agreement on reciprocal trade is clear that it is not a uh possibility, but the languages shall insure those purchases of the uh to exceed the fifty thousand metric tons of beef per the agreement and with five hundred billion annual exports expected, this is a really critical piece. Indonesia being l- the largest halal beef consumer in the world, obviously given the two hundred and ninety million people there, uh, it's imperative that the USDA, uh, mandates, uh, and certification are recognized by Indonesia, uh, which is part of the agreement on reciprocal trade, and that no further barriers are put forward, uh, for the the the cattlemen of Nebraska to sell beef to Indonesia. So I will push hard and make sure that the uh commitments of the agreement on reciprocal trade relative to beef and certainly to ethanol become again actual sales and I'll use every tool uh inter-agency tool uh to make that happen, if confirmed.

Great, thank you, Mr. Grayson. I appreciate that because again, Nebraska ranchers are the best in the world. As Governor, we um certainly wanted to open up that market, but did encounter some issues with regard to non-tariff trade bears, and I appreciate your efforts to uh, if it confirmed, to be able to make sure that the Indonesians live up to their commitment commitments.

Thank you.

All right, well, since we don't have anybody else here. Thank you to each of our nominees for appearing before the committee, and your thoughtful testimony today. This hearing has highlighted the experience, judgment and commitment to public service that led President Trump to nominate each of you these two of these Before closing, I'd like to ask unanimous consent to add any letters of support the committee has received to the record I don't think there's gonna be any objection on that one for the information of the members of the committee, the record will remain open until close business tomorrow, Friday, September twenty fifth for members to submit questions for the record and with that, uh again thank you all very much for your willingness to serve our great nation. This hearing is adjourned.

Thank you.