Hearings to examine the President's proposed budget request for fiscal year 2027 for the Bureau of

Oh, hi.

My opening statement is this one.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Afternoon everyone, committee comes to order. We're meeting to consider eight pieces of legislation this afternoon, four Senate bills and their House companion bills. These land related measures will benefit tribes, tribal members and surrounding communities. First, S two thirty six and H R six eighty one would amend the long term leasing act. to authorize leases of up to ninety-nine years for land in the Mashpee Wampanoag tribe reservation and land held in trust from for the Wampanoag tribe of Gay Head. This would allow both federally recognized tribes in Massachusetts to lease trust lands to support tribal economic development. Second, S fifteen thirteen and H R two three eight eight, the Lower Elwha K- uh, Kullalam Tribe Project Lands Restoration Act would take approximately a thousand eighty-two acres on the Olympic Peninsula in Washington State, currently managed by the National Park Service into trust for the lower Elwha uh Kualalaam tribe. This legislation would complete the restoration of the Elwha river ecosystem and fisheries and return stewardship of the river and cultural homelands to the tribe. Next on the agenda is my bill S twenty ninety eight, the South Central Foundation Land Transfer Act of twenty twenty five and its house companion bill H R thirty six twenty, sponsored by Cons- Congressman Begich. This legislation would convey approximately three point three seven two acres of land from the Department of Health and Human Services to the South Central Foundation for use in connection with health and social services programs. This transfer would allow South Central Foundation to continue providing services through the Kweana clubhouse and enable SCF to finance capital improvements on the property to expand outpatient programming. And finally, S twenty seven thirty five and HR twenty three zero two, the shingle Springs Ban Miwok Indian Lands Transfer Act would take approximately two hundred and sixty-five acres of BLM land into trust for the Shingle Springs tribe. The tribe plans to use one hundred and eighty-five acres of one parcel to build much needed housing for tribal members while the remaining acreage will be actively managed to reduce wildfire risk and preserve open space. Each of these bills is important to the Native communities that would benefit from their enactment uh so I want to thank each of the sponsors for their work on the measures,

Thank you, Chair Murkowski, for convening this business meeting. Today these bills advance tribal sovereignty and self-determination through tribal decision-making over their own lands, resources and services aligned with the needs of the members. I urge my colleagues to vote to advance each of these bills and to work with me and the Chairman to pass them out of the Senate and eventually into law.

Thank you, uh, Senator Schatz. We we new need six members physically present to report the legislation from the committee um because we can't presume a quorum to report legislation uh at the business meeting. So, um uh I'll ask members if they wanna make a statement on any of the the measures that we have in front of us but before I do I want to acknowledge Senator Armstrong. Um he is I think this is your first meeting of the Senate Indian uh Affairs Committee, so we welcome you to the committee. We actually um like working on these issues in front of us for the most part, so

Mm-hmm.

uh I I'm I'm glad that you're part of of our team and I look forward to working with you on these matters.

Madam Chair, Senator Cantwell, thank you uh uh Chair Murkowski and Vice Chair Schatz for holding this business meeting, really appreciate the fact that you two continue to work together on these important policies. I appreciate S fifteen thirteen, the Lower Elwha Clallam Tribe Project Lands Restoration Act being on the agenda. This is a very important part of our state and the Lower Elwha Clallam Tribe play an important role in a variety of issues, uh, in the state of Washington. S fifteen thirteen, uh, would, as you said Madam Chair, transfer a thousand acres of land outside the boundaries of the Olympic National Park to be held in trust for the lower Elwha Kualam tribe. These lands were originally acquired by the park service to remove two dams on the Elwha River and open up more than seventy miles of salmon habitat. After decades of advocacy and the completion of the Elwha ecosystem restoration project over twelve years ago, It was time to return this land to the Lower Elwhal tribe. Taking this land into trust boosts the habitat restoration efforts led by the Lower Elwhal tribe and federal agencies. It will help us in the recovery of all five species of Pacific salmon and other native fish and preserve the tribe's cultural and natural resources along the river. Passing this bill is an important action for the Lower uh Oh, well, Clallam tribe. And I look forward to getting it, uh, signed into legislation. Again, thank you to you and the chairman for including it on today's mark-up.

Thank you, Senator Cantwell. Uh, we do have six members present. Are are there any other, before we move to to take a vote, are there any other members that would wish to make a statement at this point in time? Okay. Let's move to, uh The business portion of the meeting, we do have a quorum present. On the agenda are eight items numbered one through eight. You and your staff received copies of the agenda for this business meeting on Friday in accordance with committee rules. So I would ask unanimous consent to take up on block and adopt the eight items on the agenda numbered one through eight. Is there objection? Hearing no objection, the question is on agreeing to agenda items one through eight on block. All those in favor say aye.

Aye. Aye.

Aye.

Aye.

any opposed say nay. The ayes appear to have it, the ayes do have it, the bills are agreed to, and that concludes our business. So I wanna thank members for getting uh that out of the way quickly. Um and uh I'm I'm pleased then to to be able to move to the next phase of of our meeting today, which is to welcome the Assistant Secretary for Indian Affairs, Mister Billy uh, Kirkland, um, along with his Chief of Staff and Miss Jillian Curtis. So, we will conclude this portion of the meeting and move into our budget hearing. Mm. Okay, we're back on the record here. Uh, we have an oversight hearing this afternoon, um, to examine the President's budget request for Indian Affairs at the Department of Interior and for the Indian Health Service for fiscal year twenty twenty seven so welcome to our witnesses today Assistant Secretary for Indian Affairs, Mister Billy Kirkland. Um, I will note, uh, Assistant Secretary, this is your first appearance uh before the committee, so uh since your confirmation, so welcome to you. We have Mister Clayton Fulton who is the Chief of Staff for the Indian Health Service. He has assumed the delegable duties of the IHS Director. Um, we appreciate that. Uh, many of us would like to see the administration submit a formal nomination for Director of Indian uh Health Service. No, no offense to you, we appreciate your business and uh your your uh interest in in helping us work through so much of the business. And then we have Ms. Jillian Curtis who is the Director of the Office of Finance and Accounting at the Indian Health Service as well. Um as I mentioned to uh to to Senator Armstrong, this is a committee that uh uh works on some some good issues and and hopefully issues that um we feel good about uh uh advancing. We've got a long bipartisan tradition of moving forward tribal uh priorities. Um as we as we look to to the budget in front of us, you know, we we have a saying around here that uh the the executive proposes, the Congress disposes, and and uh we're kind of in that same mode. Uh as I look at the proposed FY twenty-seven budget for Indian affairs programs um I've I've got questions as to whether or not it will meet the the well-documented needs across Indian country. Uh, you look to the proposed reduction of more than one third to the operation of Indian programs along with the elimination of programs ranging from welfare assistance to tribal community resilience. I look at that and and I get concerned about it. Um, so I I I I wanna start the um the hearing this afternoon, Assistant Secretary, uh with my acknowledgement and and and genuine thanks for your willingness to come to Alaska a couple weeks back um to hear directly from tribal leaders who uh were primarily from the Yukon Kuskokwim Delta. Uh you can't get further from Washington DC to places like uh Kipnuck and Quigilingok. Uh you heard voices during that two-part field hearing uh about the the disaster that had just profoundly um devastated these communities and the environment uh uh around them. And uh in the tribal listening session that we had towards the end of the second day, I was particularly struck by words from Charlotte Nijagak, from Chivac, and she said, "Finally someone from out there, not just from Alaska, finally somebody is listening to us, we need this, we need this help." And, you know, it was just such a powerful reminders that these folks are just asking to be heard. These communities are asking to be heard, to be respected, and to be partnered with as they confront some really, um, challenging, some would say, existentia existential threats to their their villages and their way of life. The the federal support that you announced, um, Assistant Secretary is is an important first step in a longer, complicated process involving infrastructure hardening, pre-disaster mitigation, recovery, and in some cases relocation for affected villages. But for these efforts to succeed, Native communities must continue to have a seat at the table. Agencies like the BIA must remain engaged and responsive and and really willing to listen directly to those who have been impacted. And these communities are are are telling us What they need, our responsibility is to hear them out, to work alongside them to ensure that they have support and resources that they need for them and their families. Um, so let's get to the budget here, or the proposed budget for IHS. Uh, Mister Fulton, over the the last year we saw the importance of advanced appropriations for the IHS, uh, long prolonged government shutdown in twenty twenty five. I first introduced legislation to provide advanced appropriations for IHS back in twenty. Um, we ultimately enacted that policy some ten years later through the Interior Appropriations Bill so I'm pleased to see the President's FY twenty-seven budget continue to ad- uh the advance appropriations. We have heard uh significant concerns from tribal health leaders, particularly in Alaska about the ongoing IHS realignment of the agencies' structure and operations. At the same time, I'm keenly aware of the increasing pressure on the IHS budget from contract support costs and the one O five L lease costs, all of which have to be balanced in the interior appropriations. It's kinda hard for me, I'm not only the the Chairman on the authorizing side, I'm also Chairman on the appropriating side, so I gotta figure it out on both ends and working with you, uh we need to to address this. So, uh to both of you I look forward to hearing from you about how this proposed budget takes the priorities tribal leaders have raised across the country. Um, and, and if I can just take the privilege of the chair for just a moment before I turn the, the uh, the microphone over to Vice Chairman Schatz. I wa- I wanna recognize um, a woman on my committee, uh, Sarah McInnis. She's one of the professional staff members here at SCIA. She's a very important member of my team. This is Sarah's last week with us before she goes off to um Harvard Law School in the fall. Um, I've reminded her that there's a lot of time between now and the fall, but apparently she wants to have a little bit of a life before she she, um, does that. But I wanna thank her publicly for her hard work, for her professionalism, her dedication to doing good policy work for Indian country. She, um, she came to the committee in twenty twenty three, she was a staff assistant. Um, about as low on the totem pole as you can get there, she's leaving us as a professional staff member. And I think this is a reflection of both her talent and her teamwork. Um, she has helped us develop this, uh, uh, Native Children's Commission, um, uh, draft. I'm very proud of the work that she and, and several others have put into it. But she's really played a very key role in keeping us organized, uh, keeping us, um, moving in the right track. And, uh, I just want to say, thank you, Sarah, um, You got a lot ahead of you, but thank you for what you've given to our committee. So congratulations to you. You're welcome. And I will now turn to Vice Chairman Schatz for his statement.

Uh, thank you, Chair Murkowski. We're here to discuss uh the budget request for fiscal year twenty seven, and I'm sad to say that it falls short of its trust and treaty obligations to American Indians, Native Hawaiians and Alaska Natives. Just how short is a little unusual. Um, it's true to say that a lot of times a budget comes in a little short and then we make up the difference, but this is a little different. The overall request for BIA is one point eight billion dollars, a six hundred and forty seven million dollar decrease from fiscal twenty six, and while the request for the Indian Health Service increases funding and includes advanced appropriation. It cuts funding for key programs required by law and supported on a bipartisan basis, such as sanitation facilities for tribal homes, special diabetes programs for Indians, and scholarships for health professionals. Cross agencies, the administration's proposed budget is underfunding federal programs that carry out federal trust and treaty responsibilities to Native communities, impacting all five hundred and seventy-five tribes and millions of individuals across Indian country. Here's what the budget actually does. It cuts BIE by thirty-two percent and BIA by twenty-seven percent, over a billion dollars total. It eliminates the widely successful, two YA program. It cuts funding for tribal thir six thirty-eight contracts and compacts despite claiming to support these authorities. It guts tribal government and human services programs. It cuts funding for resource management and road maintenance. It completely defunds tribal colleges and universities except for two, directly operated by the BIE. It eliminates several behavioral health programs. Let me put a finer point on it. If enacted, these cuts would mean less self-determination and self-governance, fewer tribal police officers, and underfunded tribal courts, less funding for job job training, roads, housing, teachers, schools, ICWA compliance, and keeping Native families together. Closure of tribal colleges and universities, continued gutting of BIA, BIE, and interior regional offices, leaving tribes unable to even find the federal employee that could provide any help. And that's on top of the impacts that we've already seen from this administration over the year and a half. Tribes and tribal organizations are feeling the effects of agency reorganization and reduction in force efforts. Staffing levels across agencies, including IHS, are down. Tribes have lost contacts and relationships. spend years forming as regional offices close, and tribes and Native Hawaiian organizations are facing uncertainty and stability, as the federal grants that they rely upon are abruptly and often without any notice at all, cancelled, delayed, or even transferred. It's disappointing, but let's remember that this administration proposed similar cuts last year and Congress rejected them on a bipartisan basis. So as a member of this committee and the Appropriations Committee, and being pretty good friends with the um key appropriator um uh uh and chair of the relevant committee on the appropriations uh committee, we are going to continue to fight against these cuts and protect federal funding, funding that the United States promised to provide through treaties laws and court decisions. We must demonstrate through our actions that the federal trust responsibility is not an inefficiency to be eliminated, but an enduring commitment that rises above partisan politics. Thank you.

Thank you, Senator Schatz. We will now turn to our witnesses. Uh, Assistant Secretary Kirkland, welcome again to the committee. Uh, appreciate you being here this afternoon. Uh, once uh Assistant Secretary has made his remarks, uh, Mister Clayton Fulton, the Chief of Staff for the Indian Health Service of the Department of Health and Human Services will will provide his testimony. And it's my understanding, Miss Curtis, that you are providing back-up. Got it, got it. So, I appreciate that. Um, uh, gentlemen know that your fir full comments will be included as part of the record. We'd ask that you try to keep your remarks to about five minutes, so that we have plenty of time for the Q and A. So, Assistant Secretary Kirkland, please proceed.

And is that back-up for both of us or how's that work? Just

We should definitely back up.

Thank you. Thanks again for the warm welcome. Um, Chairman uh Markowski, Vice Chairman Schatz. Appreciate you all welcome having us here today to the f- committee as well. My name is Billy Kirkland. Um, I'm enrolled member of the Navajo Nation and be currently serving as the Assistant Secretary for Indian Affairs at the Department of the Interior. And thank you for having us here today to testify on the President's fiscal year two thousand twenty-seven budget request. I appreciate the committee's continued leadership and long-standing commitment to upholding the federal government's trust and treaty tribal nations, American Indians, and Alaska Natives. The mission an- an- the mission of Indian Affairs is to uphold our trust and treaty responsibility while improving the quality of life across Indian country. We do this by strengthening government to government relationships, supporting tribal self-determination, and ensuring tribes have the tools and flexibility to necessarily serve their communities. In support of our mission, the FY twenty-seven budget request for Indian Affairs totals two point eight billion dollars across the Bureau of Indian Affairs, the Bureau of Indian Education, and the Bureau of Trust Fund Administration. Since taking this role, I've traveled across the country meeting with tribal leaders and communities and one message remains con- one r- message I constantly hear is that tribal nations want a federal partner that is responsive, accountable, and focused on results. Tribal leaders have emphasized the need for fewer delays, less bureaucracy, and a government that upholds its trust responsibility, not just in principle but in practice. This budget is intended to meet that expectation. Under President Trump's leadership, Interior is upholding its commitment to supporting Indian country by allocating funds for energy development, public safety, and infrastructure. This budget will increase the efficiency of the department, cut red tape, and speed up approval processes for projects that improve Indian country. A major focus of this request is supporting tribal self-determination and stewardship of trust resources. The budget includes investments in trust natural resource programs, that support tribal energy development, active forest management, and stewardship of trust lands. Earlier this month, the department approved the nation's first ever tribal resource agreement with the Southern Ute Indian tribe. An important milestone that increase increases tribal authority over energy development decisions on tribal land while reducing unnecessary This agreement demonstrates how tribal nations can exercise greater control of their own resources while helping advocate advance reliable and domestic domestic energy production. The budget continues to support tribal self-determination. We are requesting funding for the tribal priority allocations program, which provides tribes the flexibility to set priorities based on their needs of their own communities. The budget also fully, contract support the b- the budget also fully funds contract support costs for payments for tribal leases under section one O five L of the Indian Self-Determination and Education Assistance Act. Another key priority is improving trust services. For far too long, the probate backlog and outdated processes have delayed opportunities for families and limited the productive use of trust lands. This request includes resources that modernize the probate operations, reduce the backlog, and improve the trust management systems so these systems will work better in the future. The syst- the safety and security of tribal communities is a core priority for the department. Earlier this month, the department launched a new Indian country violent ti- violent crime task force to strengthen coordination among tribal, federal, and state law enforcement partners and combat violent crimes, drug trafficking, and crimes against children and tribal communities. The budget continues to support tribal law enforcement, detention centers, and tribal court programs throughout the Office of Justice Services, while also strengthening investigative and public safety capa- capacities across Indian country. The budget is about carrying out core responsibilities in a more effective and accountable way. It focuses on strengthening tribal communities, improving service, deliverables, supporting economic opportunities and ensuring the federal government ra- remains a reliable partner to tribal nations. Thank you again for the opportunity for being here today. I look forward to your questions.

Thank you, Assistant Secretary. Mister Fulton, welcome.

Perfect. Thank you, Chair Murkowski, Vice Chair Shantz, and members of the committee. We appreciate the opportunity to come testify on the President's fiscal year twenty twenty-seven budget for the Indian Health Service. I want to start by thanking this committee for its long-standing support. Over the past several years, the investments made by Congress have increased the IHS budget by sixty percent, and strengthened health care across Indian country. And that is progress that does matter. Our goal with the FY twenty twenty-seven presence budget is to build on that very foundation. It advances our mission to raise the health of Americans in Alaska Native communities, and to fulfill the federal trust responsibility, by supporting a system of over six hundred facilities. forty-one urban Indian organizations that serves nearly three million people annually. This get budget is primarily guided by three priorities, strengthening the future of the Indian health service, improving health outcomes, and supporting tribal self-governance. First, we're working to modernize the IHS system. Our current structure is not sustainable. As more and more programs become operated by tribes, The Indian Health Service must evolve to meet the realities of what the system now demands of it. We are actively evaluating changes that streamline operations, that reduce administrative burdens, and improve accountability, so that our providers can focus on patient care, the thing that really matters. Second, this budget prioritizes direct health care services. It includes nine point one billion dollars in discretionary funding, and continues to advance continues to advance appropriations to ensure stability of care in shutdowns just like the one the chair mentioned we're investing in core elements that are needed to deliver that high quality care that includes eighty four million dollars to staff and operate new and expanded facilities so they can operate as intended that includes two hundred and sixty five million for current services to keep pace with inflation population growth and increasing workforce demands additionally there is five million dollars for increased oversight of IHS operated hospitals and health clinics in order to improve our system-wide performance. Uh together these investments ensure that care remains consistent and accessible in each and every tribal community. We're continuing to modernize our health information system. The budget includes a two hundred and eighty-seven million dollars for electronic health record modernization. This is a critical investment to improve the way care is coordinated, the efficiency and long-term outcomes in our communities. The same time we're addressing the long-standing infrastructure needs. The budget includes an additional five million dollars for healthcare facilities construction, and while thirty-six of the forty-two priority list projects from the nineteen ninety-three list reme we still are d completed, six still remain. The secretary has also committed a multi-year pledge of one million of one billion dollars in existing HHS resources to go to help us try to finish this nineteen ninety-three priority construction list. Modern facilities are critical to delivering safe and high quality care. As some of our facility engineers told me just yesterday, hospitals are our biggest patients, and we're constantly working to keep them afloat. Third, the budget strengthens tribal self-governance by fully funding contract support cost and tribal leases under section one O five L. These investments support tribal control as tribes continue to take on their health systems and tailor them in a way that is unique to their community and their needs.

Mm.

The budget also includes initial funding for newly recognized tribes, including the Lumbee tribe of North Carolina and for statutorily required funding for the United Catoa Band of Cherokee Indians. These resources ensure that access to care is there as services continue to expand. In alignment with the Secretary's Make America Healthy Again pledge, this budget supports efforts by in proving outcomes and reducing disparities through programs such as our pilot our produce pilot prescription program which aims to reduce food insecurity, improve dietary health, and health outcomes. Recent investments have contributed to measurable success, including an increase of two point three years in the average of life expectancy for Alaska Natives and American Indians in twenty twenty two. with additional increases coming in twenty twenty three. Finally, I want to highlight the importance of the advanced appropriations. This resource ensures that care continues uninterrupted despite things like our recent government shutdown. The FY twenty twenty seven budget six builds on that success by requesting five point six billion dollars in advanced appropriations for FY twenty eight to ensure that stable and predictable funding is available for tribes as they continue to plan. In closing, this budget is about delivering on fundamental commitments and by ensuring American Indians and Alaska Native communities have access to high quality, reliable health care, no matter where they are. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Fulton. Right, let's begin with our round of questioning. Um, uh, Sister Secretary, I'm gonna begin with you, um, uh, again, I, I really appreciated that you, you came to Alaska and you were, uh, participating in this field hearing on, um, on the impact uh to our coastal communities um and and how how we how they can be more resilient in the face of of uh ongoing threats from erosion flooding uh permafrost, uh failing infrastructure. Um it's all complicated, it's long in duration, and it's very costly um but as I as I have mentioned and I just came from giving a a speech on the floor uh, before this hearing, Yes. um, part of the challenge that I think we have, um, is that Yes, yes. you don't really have a lead agency when it comes to how we deal with, Yes. Mm-hmm. um, these disasters and, and, and particularly as we're talking about, Yes, yes, yes. Mm-hmm. um, uh, Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. tribal relocation. BIA is not formally designated as the, the federal lead, Okay. um, but I think more and more you're seeing tribes that are looking to BIA as the primary partner coordinating across these agencies and helping communities navigate.

Mm.

Um, you kinda suggested at the hearing BIA and Indian Affairs are not,

Okay.

uh, specifically the lead, but they are the lead agency, so almost by default, um, uh, so, um, I, I wanna, I want to just have you share, um Having given some thought since that hearing to, um, how how the department and BIA are are approaching this responsibility,

Yeah.

what kind of a role you see BIA playing in in perhaps coordinating long-term, uh, tribal resilience relocation efforts. Uh, I mentioned in my comments, um, the, uh, the announcement coming from, uh, your department on the community tribal community resilience, that that helps, but we all know that there's more needed there, so um can you kind of give me an update uh in con- connecting the dots about how we can address the challenges with lead a lead federal agency and um whether or not there's perhaps additional authorities or or resources or inter-agency coordination, we need to be looking to.

Uh thank you very much, Senator, and I I was excited to uh come up and and uh visit Alaska and I appreciate you and your staff for the uh hospitality but also for the uh the ability to show me a really real situation out there. Um uh you talk about uh just having your eyes open. I don't know that um unfortunately there's a there's a Christmas carol that um i- it will never have the same meaning uh i- it was i- I don't know that you can explain it unless you heard that little girl talk about it. Um a- and and you're right, there are a number of of agencies that are involved in the the process in Alaska. I think first and foremost um mentioning whether or not there is a relocation. Um, you know, there were I I believe the m- I like it it's like a kind of like a straw poll, right? The folks that I were able to speak to, I felt like the majority of those individuals didn't wanna relocate. I'm sure there are some that maybe uh don't so I think first and foremost figuring out that process and that's gonna be a lengthy involved process in which it's gonna take more trips more talking more intimate conversations and tough conversations with whether or not these individuals want to leave in many cases the only homes the their families have known for years on end um I think in in the role that the BIA serves we have a permanent footprint in Alaska we have a a Regional Director there we have an office there not specifically that is in Bethel full-time but that is um able to get able to get to Bethel, able to meet with the folks in those areas and in the regions where folks might wanna relocate I think that it only makes sense that that uh the uh a at Indian Affairs and within the BIA that we're communicating with you and your staff we're commuting communicating with the committee um as much as possible to figure out how we can not just maybe lead the effort currently and moving forward, but also build a team to best serve and make sure that any type of relocation that takes place or any type of rebuilding that takes place, we make sure that, uh, those families aren't forgotten. I think it's easy to respond to an emergency, uh, at the first step. It's easy to know that there was a tragedy. I think the, uh, the tough part is sticking around and making sure the job gets gets finished.

Well,

And

and and that's where I wanna make sure that we don't drop the ball, um, that we don't leave the impression that The disaster is now past and all is fine. Um, uh, you have displaced families that may be displaced for a period of time. Uh, you mentioned a community consensus. Um, solutions also need to be, uh, community driven. Um, but I think we also need to recognize that even if you have people who want to go back, it may not be safe to go back.

Correct.

When you have land that, again, feels like you're walking on a waterbed, or or or jello pad is what it was described as, or the lands are so contaminated it's not, it is just not safe uh for you and your family. So these are all, these are big decisions and I I appreciate what you're sharing, um which is a desire to work with us, to work with impacted communities, but again recognizing it's not just two communities that we're talking about, it is what happens when the next disaster strikes. And I'm speaking about Alaska's example, but my colleague and friend here is is still living with the trauma from the Lahaina fires. Um, that that fire may be over, those people may in fact be returning to a place that they barely even recognize, but the trauma from that does not leave them. I'm over my time, I will turn to Senator Shaw.

Thank you, Chair. Thank you to the testifiers. Um, I wanna start with you, Mr. Fulton. Nice to meet you. Um, so fiscal year twenty four was the last year that IHS hired more employees and it lost.

Mm-hmm.

Um, during this administration, IHS has twelve hundred fewer employees than it did two years ago. That's a nine percent reduction, that's a nine percent reduction on top of a thirty percent vacancy rate. And so the committee is a bit in the dark about this new hiring initiative and

Mm-hmm.

Um, we've been trying to understand what you're up to and and I don't mean this to be provocative, I actually just wanna know what you're up to. Uh, I'll just observe that there are only so many things you can do in terms of recruiting techniques or processing uh uh uh procedures um to increase the rate at which we hire people,

Mm-hmm.

because so much of it is structural, it's pay, it's whether we have the money, it's housing especially. Um, but I'm interested in what this is and also just as a more broad point, the prerogatives on a bipartisan basis of this committee, like we should know what it is.

Mm-hmm.

And it shouldn't be that we have to pull teeth to figure out what you're up to.

Right.

We're supposed to do our oversight, but we have a pretty good tradition of being collaborative here, but we can't be collaborative if we don't if we don't know what you're up to. So this is your opportunity to tell us what you're up to.

Well, perfect. Well, thank you, Vice Chair. Appreciate the opportunity to share. As you mentioned, staffing is probably the biggest challenge that the Indian Health Service faces. it's do we have the right people there to provide care? And that is a challenge system-wide, both at i adjust rec facilities and at our six thirty-eights. And a lot of that will not, as you mentioned, is systematic and will not be solved overnight. But our goal is to make a deliberate push to hire thirty-three hundred new people into the agency this fiscal year. And while we have not hit thirty-three hundred yet, we are seeing several good signs that indicate a genuine interest to come and serve in tribal communities. We've received over ten thousand unique applicants who are interested in over three hundred jobs that we currently have posted within the Indian Health Service. We've also seen, we have nine hundred and thirty of tho- nine hundred and twenty-two of those, already interviewed, selected, and waiting to go through the process, with a nearly eighty percent selection r- or acceptance rate on those tentative job offers.

Okay, so I was gonna interrupt you just cuz we

Go ahead. Yes, sir.

two and a half minutes,

Nope.

so you're telling me the data is encouraging.

Pleasure.

Okay, great. So get us that data.

Yep.

And I don't know what the regular pace of updates would be reasonable

Mhm.

without burdening with you with a terrible like reporting requirement, but certainly it seems to be monthly,

Hmm?

quarterly, whatever. So we know where you're at. That's number one. Number two is I still haven't really heard you characterize this as a reorganization and this just seems like a hiring push and it's fine if it's that,

Yep.

but I'm trying to figure out what you're doing differently and if we should be tracking that.

Perfect. So there are two different portions that you may be referring to. One is our hiring charge to get people on board today, which has been enabled because previously HR and hiring efforts were spread across the agency done in localized area offices. Before I joined, that was unified under a single body. So we're able to work through that process more systematically. And I think that's why we're seeing significantly higher on-board rates than what has maybe been the historical approach. because of systematic changes. But then we are working on a broader realignment to make sure the agency is set up and structured in a way that is focused on the future.

Okay, got it. So for with the permission of the chair, can we can we make a request to you to reduce just to summarize all of this in writing and not don't make us wait a hundred and twenty days for a letter. Uh we just and it doesn't have to be perfect, we just need to know what you're up to. And this this there's lots of times where adversarial, this is not one of them. We just actually wanna know what is going on over here, is it going well, Do we have visibility into this? If you, if you've got all these, if you're meeting all your marks, awesome, tell us. If not, we should know that too. So, thank you very much. Um

We can do that, sure.

Um Uh, Secretary Kirkland, good to see you. Um The secretary of the Interior testified in the House that Interior's budget cuts to tribal programs are cuts to programs that are ineffective and laden with overhead. What are we talking about? Which programs are ineffective and laden with overhead?

Thank you for the question, secretary uh s I'm sorry, thank you for the question, Senator. I don't know if that'd be I don't know if you'd consider the promotion or not, but uh appreciate it and appreciate again the time to uh to be here.

It's a lateral move, yeah.

Lateral move. Maybe it depends on the agency.

Yes.

Um, and I well, I guess the state as well. So I think you're you're yeah, maybe maybe definitely lateral on your part. Um, the the bed the budget overall, eh the the core the core of our budget requests are getting back to the fundamentals of of BIA, making sure that we're providing services, making sure that we're being effective, making sure that we're we're utilizing our workforce development, and also any any duplicative program. So uh there there's a number that that you you've got and I'm happy to follow up with you and your staff and get more specific. But off the top of my head, um, there's duplex programs that uh loan programs that USDA offers. They're they're similar to SBA. Um, but happy to dive as deep as you want. I mean, I think that uh

I mean, I know I love I love the idea of looking at programs that provide the same

the work

service and figuring out whether how they can work together or maybe even they can be merged but what you're proposing is a nearly thirty percent cut to BIA and BIE, and that's not like, you know, businesses when they do cutting like that, they make a five year plan, they account for the rate of inflation, they c- they they they like do it in a way that, where you can stay operational, right? And these are agencies that are, that were falling massively short before all of this. And so if there's efficiency to fi- I mean one of the lessons it seems to me of Doge is, it didn't save any damn money. Right? Violence to the administrative state might be cathartic if you hate the administrative state. But if you actually want the place to work better, then you have to work a business plan. And it can't just be decapitating agencies that don't have a political constituency that's powerful enough. And so work with us, because we're all for the efficiency too, and we're not sitting here defending a bureaucracy. We're defending these programs that provide services. So if they're doing it in a stupid way, in a duplicative way, in a heavy uh too much overhead way, that's fine. Let's talk about that. But a thirty percent cut and then just saying, well, the reason it's a thirty percent cut is because they're they're top heavy. I'm gonna need a little evidence for that before I I stipulate to it. Thank you. Sorry for going over overtime.

Thank you, Senator. Senator Armstrong.

Yeah. Good afternoon and thank you all for joining us. Appreciate you all being here to offer your thoughts. This is this is a pretty dramatic um, change, and I'm I'm all for dramatic change. To the degree there's a plan. Um, and I'm really here asking questions to understand today, cuz I think you guys have got a lot of opportunity um, for improvement. And it looks like you're going after that. But I'll start with on the natural resources management piece of it, cuz that's a very sizeable cut, um, in in the space. And I wonder about, uh, exactly what you're going after there in Because if we sit here today, we've got a, you know, high oil prices, um, lot of these leases in in a lot of these areas have a big opportunity perhaps for a pickup in activity. And so I wanna make sure I understand, um, that we're not undermining the ability for the Indian nation and the tribes to be able to see the the resources developed on their lands. So maybe if you could talk, you you mentioned a little bit in your opening comments about Southern Ute tribe, so Maybe S- Secretary Kirkland, if you could hit on what's being done differently in that space, it'd be helpful.

I think um specifically spe- spec- specifically, Senator, um in in the uh referencing of the Southern Utes um for and and the body would know better than I, but for over twenty years there's been a uh a system out there, a a little tool that that Congress came up with called the TERRA, which is the tribal energy resource agreement that allows and gives tribes specifically greater control over their own resources their ability to manage those better those their ability to negotiate um whether it's lease or negotiate with uh with industry providers and not having to work through us. So we were able to sign the first ever terror agreement with the Southern U, giving them more control over their their uh energy production and uh that's something that we want we wanna do more of. Um we wanna do more um approving those. We also wanna do more um efficiency in general. And that's something that uh you know we talk about um reorganization or we talk about workforce efficiencies um the bia um there's a lot of dedicated people in the in there there there's a lot of folks that have been there for a long time um but the uh the management layers in the organization structure is the same today as it was in the seventies

hmm

so you do have a system where you've got in some instances for every one manager you've got one supervisor so you've got a essentially a supervisor managing one person Um, so there's a lot of uh a lot of work that needs to be taken there. There's a lot of efficiencies that need to be worked out. Um, and once again, I think that uh I Senator, I've I've never met you, I haven't had the the pleasure, but I could um congratulations on your appointment.