Hearings to examine certain intelligence matters.

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This hearing will come to order. Good afternoon. I want to welcome you all to today's hearing to consider the nominations of Doctor Roger Mason. to be the Director of the National Reconnaissance Office, and Mister Michael Vance, to be Assistant Secretary of State for Intelligence and Research. I want to remind all those in attendance that we welcome your presence here today, but the Vice Chairman and I have zero tolerance for audience disruptions. Verbal and physical distractions in this committee, room are prohibited, including shouting, standing, raising signs, or making gestures that block the view of other audience members or cameras. Should any disruptions from the audience arise, rest assured I will not hesitate to have disruptors removed and barred from future hearings. Our goal for this hearing is to consider the nominees' qualifications and give members ample opportunity for thoughtful deliberation. On to the business at hand. Both Doctor Mason and Mister Vance have already provided detailed substantive written responses to dozens of questions from this committee. Today's hearing will give our senators the chance to hear directly from the nominees before us, who are both highly accomplished individuals with impressive professional records. I wanna thank Doctor Mason and Mister Vance for their willingness to answer the call to public service once again and I'd also like to thank their family members and loved ones some of whom are here with us others of whom are watching from a distance for their support during what can be a lengthy and grueling nomination process. Our nominees today have many years of extensive experience in their respective fields. First, Doctor Mason currently serves as the Chief Growth Officer for V two X Corporation. He also previously served as President of Paraton's Space and Intelligence Sector, and as Assistant Director of National Intelligence for Systems and Resource Analyses. Because of Doctor Mason's dedication and leadership, he has received the National Intelligence Distinguished Service Medal, the Intelligence Community Gold Medallion, and the National Geospatial Intelligence Agency Medallion. Doctor Mason, drawing on your experience across government and industry in today's hearing, I look forward to your thoughts on how the NRO can work with the private sector to leverage commercial imagery, broaden the industrial base to fix various launch issues, and address the problem of over-classification in space control. Second, Mister Vance, currently serves as the Special Advisor to the Vice President for Asian Affairs, and as the Senior Advisor to the Under-Secretary for Political Affairs at the State Department. Mister Vance previously served at the National Ground Intelligence Center, worked at the State Department Diplomatic Security Service Special Agent, and served as an analyst in the National Security Agency, during which time he completed details to the National Intelligence Council and the National Security Council. Mister Vance, given your current advisory roles in the administration and your many years of analytical experience in the intelligence community, I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the importance of providing policymakers with fact-based analysis and objective diplomatic reporting. This chairman and I have focused this committee's efforts in part on returning our intelligence agencies to their core mission of stealing foreign secrets. As you know, the Bureau of Intelligence and Research plays an important role in validating those secrets and comparing them to diplomatic reporting. I'm eager to hear your views on this subject during today's discussion. Again, I'd like to thank our nominees for their many years working on behalf of the American people and for their continued willingness to serve our country in these new roles. I now recognize the Vice Chairman for his opening remarks.

Well, thank you, Mister Chairman. And before turning to the witnesses, I wanna address a development that underscores why this committee's oversight responsibility is so important. And let me be clear at the outset. This has nothing to do with the gentleman in front of me. And I also believe it has nothing to do with my Republican colleagues on this, that side of the aisle. Um I thought I'd seen it all. I thought I couldn't be shocked anymore. But the fact that President Trump announced today that Bo- Bill Polity, the head of the Federal Housing Finance Agency, will also serve as Director of National Intelligence, a choice that frankly stuns me. Beyond the fact that I guess he assumes that neither of these jobs are too important because mister Polity is being asked to do both jobs simultaneously. When the role of the DNI was created, it was written into law that the person be director of national intelligence should have some national security experience, let alone intelligence experience. I had a great deal of differences with director Gabbert. But I never question her background, commitment to the country, her willingness to serve, her national security expertise. Mister Polte has none of that. Zero. No time in the military. No time in Congress. No time in the diplomatic corps. no time in law enforcement, and this individual is at this critical moment, is being asked to come in and help oversee our intelligence community at a time when we face unprecedented threats and adversaries, it is an insult. I think it is an insult folks like Mister Vance and Doctor Mason. and the thousands of the people in the intelligence community who serve to keep our nation safe and have the ultimate responsibility to be willing to speak truth to power. What does, what qualifications from my standpoint does Mister Polity bring to the office? Well, he has shown that he is willing to do anything that President Trump wants, legal or otherwise. he has taken the federal housing agency, colleagues, and weaponized private information to be used against the president's political opponents in terms of Lisa Cook or Adam Schiff, the senator, our colleague. And now, because of that record, we're gonna say, well, let's turn over all of the intelligence. classified information to this guy. Does that make sense? You know, the co- the the chairman and I have been working our tails off. And it's been a really strong, strong working relationship to make sure that we make the case to our colleagues and the American people that the intelligence community's most critical tool Section seven O two of FISA, which has been in the past not used appropriately, which has been used in the past not to inappropriately touch Americans. This is a tool that's supposed to be foreigner, talking to foreigners abroad. We put reforms in. We've seen the FBI performance dramatically improve. Now I gotta go and try to convince my Democratic colleagues and frankly, so my Republican colleagues. we're gonna put somebody in who's shown no respect for private information who's got no experience in national security to be director of national intelligence you know what does that say about the president's view of our intelligence community strangely enough if this guy gets is able to serve You know, and we will try to find ways to, I will try to find every way I can to prevent it. He will also be able to serve at least according to the rules for six months. Well, strangely enough, that six months gets him past election. I've raised repeatedly efforts by this administration, I believe, to potentially politicize our election. Um But, turning today's nominations. doctor mason it's good to see you again um i'd like to welcome you and your family and congratulate you on your nomination to be director of national conference office if confirmed you'll only be the second senate confirmed director of nro because this committee this is such an important agency we added a senate confirmation and again i wanna compliment you as you know from your past experience the nro is responsible for our overhead the intelligent satellites that deliver sensitive information to the ic and dod yeah one of the things we talked about we gotta make sure the nro and the nga get on the same page all the time and we gotta make sure that the space new space force and space command which the president created and i think generally is in the right direction um needs to work better together but i am wanna make sure that the unique culture that is at the NRO is not subsumed by this new space force. I also think one of the things that it uh makes me very interested in your nomination is you've got the commercial experience. I thought for a long time the NRO was reluctant than actually partner with commercial. So I think um that's good experience and I look forward to working with you. Turning to Mister Vance, we've not had a chance to visit much. But I also wanna congratulate you and your family on your nomination to lead the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research, the INR. Now, I believe the INR has always punched above its weight. It's been willing to be the outlier, way back even to the Iraq war. Um. And it's been clear that the INR has never been willing to bend to political pressure. Even when that pressure I think was exerted back years ago. The INR as well, you guys were I think the best on your um pointing out with better I think accuracy than most other DIC about Putin's intentions on Ukraine. You got it right again. So, we need that honest apolitical analysis. more than ever. And mostly because the INR folks I think have got deep expertise and relationships all around the world. That's so important. And again, I know you will I doubt that in the middle night last night you were called by the president to say can we run Pilpulte Bayou first uh before you go forward further. Um, but I do think one of the things I'm gonna hope and I hope I can support you is that you know, that you will stand up for those capabilities inside the State Department. not bend the analysis. You we've seen too much of the State Department, I believe, get hollowed out. Um, so I look forward to this. I I'm I don't apologize, but I Mr. Chairman, I've gone past my time, but I could not start without addressing that issue. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Vice Chairman. Doctor Mason and Mister Vance, before we move on to your statements, I need to ask you five customary questions that our committee poses to each nominee who appears before us. Um, they require merely a simple yes or no answer for the record. However, if you answer no, we will stop and you will have to provide a lengthy and no doubt unpersuasive explanation for your no answer. Number one, do you agree to appear before the committee here and in other venues when invited?

Yes. Yes.

Could you please turn on your microphone for the benefit of our reporter?

Yes. Yes.

Number two, if confirmed, do you agree to send officials from your office to appear before the committee, and designated staff when invited.

Yes.

Yes.

Number three, do you agree to provide documents and any other materials requested by the committee in order for it to carry out its oversight and legislative responsibilities?

Yes.

Number four, will you ensure that your office and your staff provide such material to the committee when requested?

Yes.

And number five, do you agree to inform and fully brief to the fullest extent possible, all members of this committee of intelligence activities and covert actions, rather than just the Chairman and Vice-Chairman.

Yes. Yes.

Thank you all. Thank you both. Uh, after our hearing today, for the benefit of Senators, it is my intention to move to convene a committee business meeting as soon as possible to vote on these nominations and report them to the Senate for a floor vote. We will now proceed to opening statements, after which I will recognize Senators by seniority at the gavel for five minutes each. Doctor Mason, you may begin.

Chairman Cotton, Vice Chairman Warner, and distinguished members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today to consider my nomination for Director of the National Reconnaissance Office. I want to thank President Trump, Secretary Hexa, and Director Gabert for their trust and confidence in me to return to government service and fulfill this important national security position. I'm here today with several members of my family, my wife, Colleen, my mother, Sandra, and my daughter, Caroline. Family is my bedrock, and I'm grateful beyond words for their support, sacrifice, and unconditional love. First, I want to thank my parents, who instilled in me the importance of being accountable, the value of hard work, and the promise of education. I'm here today with my remarkable wife of thirty years, Colleen. She inspires me every day and sets the example of selfless service to others in our family. Together we are incredibly proud of our three children, John, Joseph, and Caroline, who are just now beginning their own lives based on those same values. I was born only a few miles from here in Alexandria and have since been a lifelong resident of Virginia. Growing up, my parents suppressed the importance of education to my sister and I, and we became first generation college graduates. For me, applying science to solve hard problems was the passion for learning. This drive resulted in earning a PHD in engineering physics from the University of Virginia which gave me a strong foundation to begin a career in national security. In my first job, after graduate school, I led teams to develop, deploy, remote sensors into a global system linked by satellites for national security missions. Simply put, I fell in love with the mission and devoted the next thirty-two years of my career serving it through government and industry. Over these three decades, I honed my leadership experience, skills and abilities to enable me to bring the right leadership at this moment in time to the NRO. As President of a Space and Intelligence business, I led a multi-billion dollar organization with over forty-five hundred employees that provided advanced manufacturing, products, services and solutions for every phase of space-based missions. i was honored to serve as the first assistant director of national intelligence for systems and resource analysis driving strategic capability investments developing intelligence requirements and conducting independent cost analysis on every major system acquisition in that role i also gained valuable insight across all intelligence missions from the strategic to the tactical from counterterrorism to foreign military combat capabilities and everything in between Today marks an incredibly important and exciting time for space, not seen since the interrobe began the dawn of space intelligence in the nineteen sixties. We are in a space renaissance, where the pace of technology, the speed of innovation and the promise of future has drawn unprecedented investments from many sectors. The future of space and how our nation can use it for good seems limitless. The future of space, however, is also contested. adversaries are in a race to build their own capabilities, as well as counter space mission measures, capable of denying our nation's critical space missions. If confirmed, my priorities will focus on elevating NRO's strengths and emphasizing three major areas. The first, accelerate the next generation space architecture that integrates proliferated and exquisite capabilities to produce in- integrated intelligence data at mission speed. The second, enable NRO to push the leading edge of space technology and innovate even faster. And the third, ensure enterprise-wide resilience from space vehicles to the ground and everything that connects the agency. These priorities will only be achieved by a vibrant mission-focused workforce and critical strategic partnerships. The NRO workforce is the heartbeat of the organization, and it demands full attention of its leadership to attract, develop, grow, and retain its world-class talent. To deliver success, inter-o-strategic partnerships with the military, intelligence agencies, and our allies are essential. And we must continue to work closely with an expanding space industry. All of these relationships must be built with strong communications, transparent processes, and a spirit of problem solving. Chairman Cotton, Vice Chairman Warner, and distinguished members of the committee. I conclude these remarks by giving you my commitment that, if confirmed, I will bring the best of my energy and skills in service to the nation to lead the NRO with the strength it deserves and the future vision it demands. Thank you for your time today, and I look forward to answering your questions.

Mister Vance.

Chairman Cotton, Vice Chairman Warner, and distinguished members of the committee. Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. I am honored to be considered for the position of Assistant Secretary of State for Intelligence and Research. I have too many people to thank to give everyone the credit they deserve for getting me to this point. But I do want to express my gratitude to to the President for his confidence and to the Secretary of State for the trust he has placed in me. I would also like to thank my wife, Alessandra, for her patience and loving support over the course of my career. She is with me here today, along with my oldest son, Wyatt. I also want to thank my parents for the example they have set for me in life. My mother, a retired Dickinson County, Virginia school teacher, taught me the value of education. My father, a former coal miner turned small business owner, taught me about hard work and dedication to family. I know they are watching today from home with my three youngest children, Morgan, Ellis, and Mabel. Finally, I would like to thank the many colleagues from across the intelligence community, the State Department, and the White House. who have offered encouragement throughout the nomination process. If confirmed, it would be a tremendous privilege to lead the Bureau of Intelligence and Research, an organization with a proud tradition of analytic rigor, independence, and service to US foreign policy. INR plays a unique and indispensable role within the intelligence community. Its officers provide objective, policy-relevant, all-source intelligence analysis and support rooted in deep expertise and an understanding of diplomacy, ensuring that policymakers receive assessments that are candid, timely, and free from political influence. At a time of increasing global competition, persistent conflict, and rapidly evolving technological challenges, the demand for high-quality intelligence has never been greater. If confirmed, my foremost priority would be to safeguard the integrity and independence of INR's analysis, while ensuring it continues to meet the needs of the secretary, the department and Congress. I also recognize the critical importance of partnership within the department, in the intelligence community, and with our friends and allies overseas. INR's value is magnified when it understands the department and its needs, collaborates effectively across agencies, and integrates diplomatic insight with intelligence collection and analysis. If confirmed, I would work to strengthen those relationships. Equally important is our responsibility to Congress. I am committed to transparency, timely engagement, and forth forthright communication. Robust oversight strengthens our intelligence institutions, and I would view my relationship with Congress as essential to the Bureau's success. Finally, I would be deeply mindful of our obligation to the dedicated public servants of INR. Their expertise, professionalism, and quiet dedication underpin the Bureau's reputation for excellence. If confirmed, I would prioritize supporting and developing this workforce, ensuring they have the tools, leadership, and trust necessary to carry out their mission. Thank you again for considering my nomination. I look forward to your questions and to the opportunity to serve our country.

Thank you. Gentlemen, Mister Vance, I wanna return to something the Vice Chairman pointed out. Um, INR has on occasion been the squeaky wheel in the intelligence community, um, more willing to dissent, um, less likely to go with the flow. Uh, the Vice Chairman pointed out one apt point, uh, and that was Putin's intent to invade Ukraine. Um, I can recall clearly multiple hearings in which the heads of many other intelligence agencies beat around the bush and said, " Well, we don't know, maybe, maybe we could see him saying it's a training mission, it's a signaling mission, or what have you. And I'm like, " Really?" Cuz they have hundred and fifty thousand troops on the border at Christmas time. You don't normally do that to your troops and their families and for training mission. And they brought a bunch of blood to the front lines. And you don't normally bring fresh blood, which is perishable, a number of weeks to a training mission as opposed to an actual military operation. And INR was the only one willing to raise its hands like, " Uh, yes, we actually think he's gonna invade." He actuall he's, he wrote a five thousand word essay about it last summer that said why he was gonna invade. Um, you've been around the State Department a lot, you've been around the intelligence community a lot. To what do you attribute INR's traditional willingness to swim against the flow and make sometimes unpopular but ultimately correct assessments?

Uh, Mister Chairman, thank you very much for the question. Um, you're correct, INR has long, uh, I think culturally defined itself as being a uh uh an organization that prides itself on intellectual independence. Uh, I think that can be at least partially attributed to the fact that INR analysts are empowered in a way that analysts in other parts of the intelligence community, or sometimes not. Uh, for example, when I was an analyst uh in INR many years ago, I was a China military analyst there, uh, I covered the entire Chinese military. Then eventually we hired a guy to cover conventional forces and I moved to strategic forces but we had two people who were covering the entire Chinese military for uh for INR. Uh speaking for the State Department with authority in National Intelligence Council meetings that sort of empowerment um I think encourages analysts, it gives it gives an the analyst a sense of confidence uh and I think you can have that confidence in your anal- in in your analyst when you hire the best people possible. INR has historically I think done a very good job of attracting elite level talent and retaining that talent uh should I be confirmed with the role of INR assistant secretary one of my top priorities would be to continue that tradition, uh, of attracting the best people possible, ensuring that they're, that they're happy in their jobs, that we can retain them over the long term, because deep expertise, I think, is, is one of the calling cards of the organization and allows you, uh, to provide your analysts with a, with a long leash and give them the freedom to go out and actually have opinions, and, and to make the hard calls.

Thank you. Well, like I said, um, they've often swum against the tide. I don't agree with every single report i get from inr but when they dissent from an otherwise community wide consensus i i think they need to be taken quite seriously given their record of success uh i wanna touch on uh a more specific issue inr s office of the geographer and global issue serves as the us government's authoritative voice on sovereignty and geographical claims including for intelligence that is provided to policy makers if confirmed can you assure us that this office's work will remain free of bias that it will accurately represent uh us views and policies.

Senator, thank you very much for the question. I I can absolutely assure you of that. The office of the Geographer I think is a unique capability for INR. It's a it's a service that it provides to the the department and frankly to the entire US government. It's essential.

Thank you. I appreciate that. Uh, Doctor Mason, um, the NRO is currently hampered by a limited supply of launch providers and, um, failures among those it is relying on to complete future constellations as we saw with blue origin recently. Are there systemic issues with NRO's launch enterprise that you would like to address as NRO director?

Chairman Cotton, I view launch and the diversity of the launch providers as something that is essential for the NRO uh and and the Space Force. Uh, and essential in the, in, in a couple of ways. The first one is the government needs a diverse uh industrial base of launch access providers. Uh the second piece is the launch infrastructure also needs to be diverse, and make sure we are resilient in that regard. Uh in terms of working with the Space Force, which uh if confirmed I will commit to do, uh understanding and increasing that competition in terms of the launch providers would be really important. Uh when I look at the National Security Launch Program Phase Three, there are three providers, there's SpaceX, there's ULA, and also uh blue origin of course um different capacities for different types of types of of of vehicles it's a growing market in my mind and one where even new entrants for different size vehicles will be important as well so we have confirmed senator uh i would commit to working with the space force to insure that we have launch diversity and loss resilience in the area

thank you uh it couldn't be more critical we've had testimony on this committee and on the armed services committee that without those commercial providers that you mentioned space x blue origin potentially new entrants, um, we would not have the current lead over China in launch capacity that we have. So it's vital that we work with them and we get more faster. Vice Chairman?

Oh, Mr. Chairman, thank you. I also wanna just make clear for the record, uh, that not the fact that Doctor Mason's from Virginia and my hometown of Alexandria and Mister Vance got parents in one of the coolest communities in Virginia and Dickinson County in Southwest Virginia will have no effect. on how i judge the qualifications of these guys that are

once again virginia sucks all of the intelligence community's resources into its expanding vortex leaving not even a few scraps for oregon and new mexico

reserving the balance of my time alright doctor mason quickly um what do you think should nro be merged into space force

vice chairman warner first of all thank you for making the time i enjoyed meeting

Thank you, sir.

again uh few days ago. Uh, Senator uh Vice Chairman uh Warner, no, I do not believe the NRO should be part of the Space Force.

Good answer.

Uh, when you look at the NRO's mission in terms of providing intelligence to the policymakers all the way to the war fighter, it is rightfully placed as both a defense agency and an IC element. And I believe that placement is a strength and one that if you were to move move into a military service or for that matter an ic agency that we would we risk degrading that strength that strength is also because of its personnel in terms of as you well know the composition of the nro a third ish of cia nro cadre and then the military mostly the space force this is important and i believe it's placed appropriately

amen a hundred percent agree and i know you'll be committed to maintaining that culture and that style uh we talked about this as well uh but i'd like to get you on the record on it i don't think we've maximized all our capabilities as we sometimes have overlap and brush back between nro and nga we gotta make peace in the valley i know you've you know about this please speak briefly to it

uh thank you vice chairman uh the the relationship within nro and nga is it's interdependent the two organizations are dependent upon each other to deliver successful intelligence um if confirmed, my commitment would be to first of all examine the relationship, where is it working, where is it not, examine the processes, and more importantly, to take a spirit of problem solving to the relationship, to understand how it can be improved, and to make sure that we are doing the best for the nation in terms of that mission. So you have my commitment.

Yeah, and I I I think there's an opportunity now. We've got relatively new leadership at NGA, you'll be coming in at NRO and uh past frictions, I think we can we can leverage all of that better. uh i'm i wanna get to mr. vance but i also wanna echo and appreciate the fact that chairman asks this and i wholeheartedly agree we've gotta have diversity and variety in launch vehicles and the notion that we have to look at commercial and you know our our um our space industry needs that support and i appreciate your comments there mr. vance i really appreciate your comments um in your opening statement about the independence and the willingness to kind of um get the best people possible i hate to like say two nice things about the chairman in the same five minutes but the fact that he also acknowledges how when nr o i mean your agency gets it right inr gets it right is important one of the things and i'm briefly just reiterated that again but more specifically one of the things we've seen um with inr after doge lots of folks got cut out we've got a number of requests um in for information we've had unfortunately um a lot of failure to um uh respond to the oversight that i think is so critically important so give me a statement again about independence and then talk about how you're gonna respond to oversight uh from this committee

uh excuse me uh mr. vice chairman thank you very much for the question uh should i be confirmed to the role of inrc's secretary i would of course be uh more than eager to work with this uh this committee to insure all of our obligations are met in terms of uh keeping this committee uh apprised of all developments within inr and of course responding to any uh committee rfis uh regarding independence and analytic independence of the organization um i am you know i've got nearly now over two decades of intelligence community experience uh and i can tell you that one of the things i am absolutely committed to is analytic independence and observing um ICDs two O three and two O six. Uh, in the course of my career I've served as a trade graph reviewer, I've had the opportunity to, to serve at the very center of the intelligence community, and ODI and I have served out in the various agencies. Uh, and one of the things I, I've always prided myself on is a commitment to professional ethics, and an appreciation for the separation between policy and uh, and analysis.

Appreciate that and I'm not gonna have time to ask you, but I would say one of the things you've responded to me from my colleagues, was the need to have more commercial diplomacy and, and and are looking at, uh, not just at governmental entities and military entities, but our competition with China is oftentimes in the commercial sector. So, I'm, I'm appreciate your comments.

It's been recorded.

Mister, Doctor Mason and I'm of a age that, uh, I remember when Neil Armstrong landed on the moon and of course the space race with, uh, the old Soviet Union and everybody sort of understood the importance of that um that competition but now of course uh there's interest in an enduring lunar presence and i wonder if you might just take a minute and talk a little bit about why that should be important to the american people that we establish a enduring lunar presence

senator korn um in terms of our dominance in space um and again coming from looking from the outside in you know lunar presence is important for not only further planetary exploration relative to a a a stop uh uh um you know you know for furtherance of that exploration but also uh in terms of you you mentioned competition uh competition with uh other nations and our adversaries in understanding what needs to be done in terms of understanding um the the strategic placement of that Uh, the President's executive order in terms of space superiority very clearly lays out that um, dates for which we uh, we will populate the moon and start the lunar base. And then to include, uh, from the perspective of understanding any threats, characterizing those threats from very low, very low orbit all the way to cislunar. So, critically important in that regard, Senator.

Is it important we get there first?

senator

as opposed to the chinese or

senator i believe it is important that we get there first

and why

the first mover advantage in terms of space exploration or getting the high ground or getting the most uh uh coveted territory uh comes with getting there first and getting there uh in substantially

and i know um the chairman talked about the importance of commercial um providers when it comes to various missions uh run by nasa and the ns nro um explain why that's been important in terms of american dominance in space and the ability of the nra to nro to accomplish its mission

so the commercial industry space industry and i won't just say commercial when i speak commercially i speak very broadly from commercial launch to commercial satellite communications to commercial imagery providers all a major part in terms of the nro uh it when i left government twelve years ago it was a bolt-on there were one or two companies and now because of low cost access to space it has literally revolutionized how we're able to do the architectures we want to do and if confirmed i would absolutely endorse that and actually try to strengthen it even further expanding the capabilities of commercial industry sparks innovation it sparks lower cost and gives us capabilities that we couldn't do um you know five five ten years ago that now will be an incredibly generational part uh to a new next generation architecture

mister france i'm gonna pick your brain about uh is in your role as an expert on uh china uh as a uh china analyst and uh and your work on uh china's nuclear capabilities and doctrine But uh, since we're in a public setting here obviously, and uh, we need to keep that in mind. But can you speak to um, the results of President Xi's purging of his top military leadership, what that means in terms of his confidence and the capability of the PLA to do things like take Taiwan in, in uh, by twenty twenty seven? Um, what should, what should the American people know about president xi s capabilities and intentions

uh excuse me thank you senator for that question it's an important one um by my own count i think uh over a hundred senior chinese generals have been purged in last several years um and i think the central military commission is now down early to two people xi jinping and one remaining chinese general is in charge

he must be kinda nervous i would imagine

yeah yeah yes uh i think he should be probably nervous he is in charge of uh uh internal discipline so uh he could be next. Uh of course, Jung Yo-Sha was purged earlier this year, it it suggested in my mind that uh she is probably not terribly confident about uh the reliability of the PLA at this point. Uh the strategic rocket forces were particularly hard hit, and of course the strategic rocket forces would play an essential role in both deterring US intervention uh and at least in the minds of PLA planners but also, projecting power regionally, so Uh, I see, I would suggest that uh it's uh encouraging from a US standpoint, that hopefully Xi isn't terribly confident in PLA capabilities moving forward, and it's is it it certainly doesn't seem to be letting off the accelerator on the purges either.

I assume we should relax.

Um,

In response.

Senator, thank you for that, um, I would suggest not relaxing, but I do think this creates a window of opportunity for us to continue investing in our own capabilities. Uh, of course keeping in mind that the situation in the Taiwan Strait is is dynamic. Thank you.

Senator Wyden.

Thank you, Mister Chairman, and uh it was good to visit with you this morning uh Doctor Mason, I got a lot out of that. Uh my opening question to you would be the ongoing National Reconnaissance Office Director gave a speech about the agency's use of artificial intelligence. This is obviously a fast-moving uh technology. My own view is that there needs to be aggressive oversight. What is your view on the need for guardrails and safeguards with regard to the agency's use of artificial intelligence?

Thank you, Senator. Wayne, I too enjoyed our conversation. I appreciate you making the time this morning. The first a part of this the answer to this question is is really uh the excitement that AI is generating when we think about this nash this next generation proliferated architecture AI is what's going to be able us to do this at mission speed or humans just can't do it just from the synchronization standpoint getting more important to your question uh one of the things that director and the has done that i have researched as part of my preparation is they've actually published a a ai kind of governing document in terms of the strategies and in my mind it's laid out very well uh it talks about the objectives it also talks about risk management and it talks about governance so uh if confirmed i would follow that priority that having some type of guardrails uh you know and understanding what the limitations and the risks are equally as important as understanding the benefits that ai can unlock

ok um mr. vance um i didn't get a chance to talk with you so i'm just really thinking about some of the documents i've read and mr. chairman chairman cotton i would ask unanimous consent that an article written by mr. vance entitled greenhouses and stones confronting europe's soft authoritarianism be entered into the public record.

Is there objection? Without objection, it will be entered into the record immediately following Mister Vance's extensive written answers to your written questions.

Thank thank you um, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Vance, in the article you wrote that European politicians should be more interested, and I quote here, "serving the native populations of the continent". Now my parents fled the Nazis in the thirties, not all got out, my dad was uh fleeing and uh became part of our army was one of the famous uh uh richy boys and they escaped germany in the thirties when nazi antisemitism was rooted in the myth that so called aryans were native to germany and jews were not so i found this language in the article and as i say we haven't talked all i have is the article was deeply disturbing i asked you in written questions to clarify and your answers again just to me were quite disturbing you wrote and i quote centuries of connection for people to be part of a community was what it takes. And my first question to you is, by this kind of calculus, how many hundreds of years do you believe it ought to take before people can be full citizens?

Uh, Senator, thank you very much for the question. Well, Senator, thank you. Uh, of course the essay wasn't an attempt to identif- or to define or - or to make a determination about who the native populations of uh R, the the essay was actually about uh DRL and the annual human rights reports, but uh uh in response to your question what I would say is that uh determining national identity is something that's very complex and it's something that academics have struggled with for frankly for centuries uh if you look at Italy in the mid nineteenth century during uh the process of the Risorgimento there famously an Italian statesman said you know we have made Italy, now we have to make Italian, so the the the the notion of Italian national identity was something that was consciously forged. by the italian state over course of many decades in contrast to that i would point to the basque and say that basque people have lived in basque country literally for thousands of years so there is a i think a tension in the social science literature between um kind of the conception of the nation as a fundamentally cultural entity and the nation as uh as a political entity uh in reality most nations fall somewhere in between uh uh including both elements of kind of the civic national identity as well as uh a sense of kind of cultural cultural continuity and connection to place that i think is commonly associated with nationhood

let me see if i can get one other question in you wrote that politicians are only legitimate if they protect quote historical cultural communities so there was kind of more of the same but i wanna close with a final question um apparently you called western europe authoritarian and argued that repression in Western Europe is similar to the Soviet Union. Do you believe that today?

Uh, Senator, actually I think I referred to the late Soviet Union, uh, and I'm I'm not a scholar of Soviet studies, but there is a very distinct contradict or a a difference between, uh, the character of state oppression in the late Soviet Union, uh, and the earliest Soviet Union. Um, in the late Soviet.

You don't believe it today.

Uh, uh, Senator, what I would say is that I stand by what I wrote in that article, I think everything that I read in that article is entirely consistent with US policy.

They're not.

Thank you. I'll have to observe, I've got the article here in front of me, um, that this critique of the Bureau of Democracy, uh, Human Rights and Labor is apt. Uh, they have long under, uh, under-covered the lack of free speech rights in many European nations. Um, I don't think they're like the, like Soviet Russia, but most European nations don't have anything like our First Amendment. I remember being at the Munich security conference with John McCain in February, twenty sixteen, right after large populations of migrants had sexually assaulted German women across the country on New Year's Eve. And these German officials tried to deny that it happened at the very time that they were trying to suppress on-line commentary about it. So, I, I'm not gonna answer for every single thing that Mister Vance wrote in his article, but I would say it's not at all beyond the pale to say that European nations should do a better job of protecting the free speech rights of their citizens. Mister Budd.

Thank you, Chairman, and thank you both for being here, if your willingness to serve and um your prior service. Um, Doctor Mason, uh, are there any activities currently underway at the NRO that in light of your vision need to be changed or revisited?

Senator Budd, when I look across the enormity of the NRO and what they are doing, I would first describe it as we are, NRO is engaged in a generational opportunity and a generational challenge with respect to the next generation architecture. And so, if confirmed, the areas that I would look at to ensure um that we're getting proper attention is actually leading change. NRO is a remarkable workforce. It's, it's arguably, you know, a national treasure. Uh, through any period of change, having uh the importance of doing it very intentionally, Understanding what needs to be done, why it needs to be done is an area that, if confirmed, I would absolutely give attention to in that regard.