Pending Veterans Health, Education, Benefits, and Memorial Bills

four forty five and uh so we're starting a bit early senator blumenthal is on his way and uh we'll work our way through um our agenda as uh as expeditiously as we can but um making certain that the the witnesses have an opportunity to tell what they want to tell and the members of committee have an opportunity to ask what they want to ask this afternoon we'll consider twenty five pieces of legislation sponsored some by me and the ranking member, uh, and certainly senators from both sides of the aisle. Uh, today's agenda includes four bills that I've introduced, the disability, the, excuse me, the Disabled Veterans Dignity Act, the National Veterans Strategy Act, the Stand Act, and the Optimizing the VA Workforce for Veterans Act. This le- the legislation we will consider today reflects a collection of bipartisan priorities to further expand and streamline access to high quality health care and earn benefits for veterans their survivors and their families. Improving the lives of those who have served is not a partisan issue, but a shared mission that involves every member of this committee. Whether we are addressing health care resources or the efficiency of benefit claim processing our focus remains on supporting those who have served and sacrificed for our nation I'm grateful to our witnesses for joining us here today to offer their perspectives on these proposals and to to the sponsors of the these bills for their work on this legislation I particularly appreciate the department for providing technical assistance guidance and cost estimates, uh, on these proposals, and I'm grateful to our veteran service organizations, our partners, for their advocacy and collaboration to make certain we are meeting the evolving needs of the veteran community. I'll, uh, give the opportunity for the ranking member to make his opening statement upon his arrival. And, uh, we'll move to our, to those who are testifying today, and we begin with the Department of Veterans Affairs. Margaret Devlin, uh, Principal Deputy for, Undersecretary for, for Benefits. Uh, she is accompanied by David Behrens, the Dep- Deputy Vice Chairman and the Clerk of the Board of the Veterans' Appeals, and Mark Kroeninger, Acting Assistant Under Secretary for Health for Patient Care and Service. Again, thank you. Thank you for your service to veterans. And Miss Devlin, you're now recognized for your testimony.

Chairman Moran and when he arrives, ranking member Blumenthal and other members of the committee, good afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity to testify today on twenty-five bills that cover a broad range of veteran topics. Joining me today from the Veterans Health Administration is Doctor Mark Koeniger, Acting Assistant Under Secretary for Health, for Patient Care Services, and from the Board of Veterans Appeals, Mister David Behrens, Deputy Vice Chairman of the Board. I would like to take this opportunity to highlight our work implementing Secretary Collins' Veterans First strategy. We are promoting timely access to care and services by reducing the disability claims backlog after a record-breaking year in twenty twenty five, processing more than three million claims. VA is on a similar pace this fiscal year. completing more claims without sacrificing quality. VA's twelve month rating quality is ninety four point zero two percent, the highest rate it's been in two years. We're also committed to encouraging apprenticeship opportunities, with fifteen thousand beneficiaries participating in apprenticeship programs through their GI Bill. While I cannot address every bill on today's agenda, I will highlight a few, and VA's full views are detailed in my written statement. First, thank you for advancing two of VA's legislative proposals. VA strongly supports these bills, which would provide essential long-term stability for key programs. S thirty nine ninety two, the joint medical facilities fund act of twenty twenty six would provide permanent authority for the fund and insure uninterrupted operations at the Lovell Federal Health Care Center in North Chicago. Making this authority permanent would support efficient planning, responsible use of resources, and reduced administrative burden. S forty forty three, the Health Care for Homeless Veterans Act would similarly codify VA's authority program, eliminating the ongoing risk of interruption, enabling sustained planning, and ensuring veterans experiencing homelessness continue to receive essential health care, mental health services, substance use treatment, and community support. We appreciate the three bills introduced by the ranking member. However, we do have some concerns. S forty one forty, the Carlton H. Ingram Veterans Benefits Improvement Act is not supported because VA has already implemented the Ingram court decision, and already considers the use of medication in many areas of For example, our hyper- our hypertension criteria already account for when medication is required to control the condition. As we update other body systems, we will continue following that same approach to ensure the rating schedule remains consistent with the spirit of the Ingram ruling. S thirty ninety-eight, the presumptive clarity act of twenty twenty-five, while we support the underlying goal of transparency, we do have concerns with implementation, as the bill would introduce substantially overlapping publication requirements. s thirty nine ninety five the mammography access for veterans act of twenty twenty five we have concerns that this bill could limit veterans access to breast imaging services through the veterans community care program mister chairman uh we do not have our ncaa or human resources partners available today to discuss s eleven twenty seven the dennis and lois chris felucy act or the optimizing the va workforce for veterans act i can take those questions for the record and we defer views on s thirty five ninety one the thomas m conway veterans access to resources in the workplace act to our colleagues at the department of labor we look forward to continuing this work as these proposals advance thank you for your support and your leadership and we appreciate the opportunity to testify today and my colleagues and i welcome your questions

thank you very much uh let me start with you doctor uh had to temporarily close half of its i c u and surgical beds due to a nursing staffing issue i was not notified or informed of this until a week later and i'm still waiting for all the relevant details um to learn those relevant details uh i hope that the circumstance would be different and i would be notified and i'd i would hope that we'd have answers more quickly This, per- uh, situation, I raise it today for that complaint, but I raise it also because it provides another example of why the workforce legislation I introduced with Senator King is sorely needed. It would require the VA to develop, maintain, and provide Congress with a strategic human capital plan that aligns staffing levels with current and future projected demands for VA services, and increase the transparency with Congress in advance of signif significant staffing changes or a reduction in force. Will you commit today to working to make certain that the VA is staffed appropriately to satisfy patient demand? I assume your answer will be yes. And on Leavenworth, specifically, will you let the secretary know that I expect a full briefing from the national and facility level leadership to include the details of how this issue developed, and how it can be prevented going forward.

Uh, S- Senator, thank you uh for that. Um, we absolutely will work uh to make sure that staffing is such that we can support all veterans. Um, that staffing issue at Leavenworth was a uh temporary issue. Um, what we found is that um with uh a decrease in staffing, we had to close some medical surgery beds. um to ensure patient safety. And uh clearly medical facilities at times the staffing fluctuates, and I can assure you that the facility is working uh very diligently at this time to uh hire the appropriate nurses and support staff so that we can open those med-surg beds again.

Uh and information, additional information will be worked out.

Yes, sir.

Thank you. uh this week senator king and i introduced the optimizing the va workforce for veterans act to require the va to develop and and uh implement a five year strategic human capital plan to make certain the va is adequately staffed this will make clear that the va staffing strategy cannot be arbitrary and should track the veteran demand do you agree that the va staffing should not be arbitrary and should align with demand i assume the answer is yes but uh i would like to hear it from you

Uh, yes, sir. We absolutely look at the demand and then we do our best to, uh, make sure that we can take care of that demand.

How would the VA ensure that the results-oriented performance measures required by the bill show not just whether staffing targets were met, but whether veterans actually experienced greater access to care and higher quality of service as a result of that staffing plan?

Sir, I have to get back to you. specifics of that and certainly our goal is to optimize health outcomes for all veterans.

uh i thank you uh and i'm happy to have you uh get back uh to me uh with more members here than when i made this announcement we started a few minutes early in with the expectation and in fact the insistence that we complete our work by the time that the four forty five four forty five series of votes require our presence And so I started a little bit early and I know that you're disappointed that you didn't hear my opening statement.

I didn't think you'd be so excited. The bill is in the news.

But if you

But I think the records you showed us the first time you were a senator has ever been broken. I think you can get some good ratings.

And both both of my questions to the witnesses involved a bill that Senator King and I uh are involved in. So I'm going to defer my forty eight seconds that are left and recognize Senator Hassan.

Well, thank you, uh, Mister Chair, and I thank you and Senator Blumenthal. uh for this hearing and i'd also like to thank our witnesses today not only for your testimony but for the work you do to support our country's veterans. Miss Devlin I wanna start with a question um specific to New Hampshire. We are the only state as you know in the continuous United States without a full-service VA hospital. Last May the President issued an executive order directing the Secretary of the VA to both direct a feasibility study at the Manchester VA Medical Center and submit an action plan to expand services to support a full-service medical center in New Hampshire. I've been asking that this action plan be publicly released, so that granted staters can review and comment on it. In a recent briefing to staff, the VA acknowledged that the feasibility study and action plan were created, and that the secretary and the White House have decided not to make this plan available for anyone to see, even members of Congress. Now, the VA and the White House are presumably using these documents to make decisions, about whether or not a full-service VA hospital is appropriate for New Hampshire. Granite State veterans, the people actually affected by these decisions, deserve to see these documents and give their input. So, Miss Devlin, will the VA commit to publicly releasing these documents? And if you aren't involved enough in this decision to provide that answer today, will you commit to provide an answer to me in writing within one week so that the VA can provide transparency on this issue to my constituents? Thank you for the question. I think Doctor Koeniger is better prepared to answer the questions.

Yeah, Doctor, thank you. Um, ma'am, um, I don't, I haven't been involved in the specifics of that, um, so I can't speak to that. But, um, I can say that the, the secretary is, is working to, uh, make sure that that facility is sized to the population of veterans that are there.

Uh, I understand that, and I'm I'm gonna interrupt you just in interest of time for all of us, and and look, Um, the the President signed an executive order saying he was gonna do this study. Um, we happen to think in New Hampshire, call us crazy, we're a democracy that actual veterans are supposed to be able to see documents generated by the White House and by the VA that affect their care directly, and should be able to comment on it and give it feedback. So, in the briefing the VA gave to our staff, it was clear that the White House was blocking the release of these documents. Is that correct?

Ma'am, I i do not know i the answer to that what i can tell you though is that i will absolutely take your concerns back and make sure that secretary is aware

we need to see the documents my constituents deserve to understand the rationale and reasoning for any decisions this administration is gonna make uh specially considering the fact that the president promised a full service va hospital in new hampshire uh when he was running for office

yes ma'am

uh now another let's go back to legislation miss devlin Um, while it's not on the agenda today, I wanna mention my bill with Senator Bozeman to make it easier for veterans to schedule their VA appointments. That's the Improving Veterans' Access to Care Act. Our bill passed the Senate last December, and I'm hopeful that the House takes it up and passes it soon. Our veterans deserve access to easy, user-friendly method to schedule all of their VA appointments just in one stop. So, if this bill eventually becomes law, will the VA commit to working with my office and Senator Bozeman to quickly implement it so that veterans can easily schedule all their VA appointments in one place at one time. Doctor, sure, yeah.

Yeah. Certainly. Um, the VA uh would absolutely work with the committee, work with you and the committee to take a look at the specific verbiage in the bill. Um, certainly access to care is at the forefront of what the secretary and the VA is trying to do and we would be more than happy to work with them.

Well, thank you. I mean, it we we should just be able to implement this as quickly as possible, so veterans can see what's available all on one screen, all their appointments get to the VA, uh, for one day and do a bunch of appointments all at once. So I'd look forward to working on that with you.

Yes, ma'am.

Um, last question to Ms. Devlin. Um, I'd also like to ask you about the bill that Senator Blackburn and I have that helps women veterans access care that is specific to their needs. without having to go through unnecessary delays or obstacles. I understand that the VA supports the intent of our bill, but that you have some concerns about the specific language. I certainly don't think we need to get into a discussion about the technical language right now, but I would like to work with the VA to make sure that we get this right, and that we can make sure that women veterans can schedule their appointments without any unnecessary bar- barriers or other issues. So, will the VA commit to working with my office and Senator Blackburn

ma'am as a family physician myself i totally support um getting women in and to so that they can get the care they need absolutely

good thank you look forward to working with you on that thanks mister chair

senator haslam thank you uh ranking member uh sir blumenthal

thanks mr. chairman i apologize i was at a hearing of the perma subcommittee on investigation

it's unlikely to take the blame for something i did

uh uh i'm not gonna go further on that uh i uh i'm gonna forgo an opening statement and put put it in the record if that's ok

without without objection

uh i just wanna say uh i am hopeful that we will move forward on the richard major richard star act

so

uh i know that the chairman is sympathetic and i believe we have an opportunity for a bipartisan step forward on an act that is about simple justice for combatting injured veterans um and i believe strongly that it is uh an overdue measure to to give them justice mister barons uh quick question for you the the va budget request estimates uh a twenty one thousand increase in appeals received by the board this fiscal year and this increase is the direct result of the increased number of claims the va has denied the appeals modernization act was congress's response to an appeals backlog that was created by va s effort to reduce the claims backlog in the early two thousand and ten's seems now we're heading in the same direction the budget request estimates an increase in the board's year-to-year pending appeals inventory for the first time since implementation of the ama my appeals legislation with senator cassidy intends to avoid another appeals backlog by addressing inefficiencies in the appeals process and unintended consequences of the ama uh do you support this legislation what reform should congress consider that would improve the timeliness and accuracy of board decisions

thank you for the question senator um we do support provisions of of the uh s thirty two eighty six uh we have uh concerns regarding some of the provisions um we'd be happy to work with with the committee uh on those um uh would note that um there are some provisions that we think are worth um further discussion to gain potential efficiencies um i would note that um with respect to uh section seven of the bill for example which refers to uh veterans law judges potentially issuing decisions during the course of a hearing we have concerns with that and its operability um but i would note that in the the budget submission uh there was a legislative proposal that we think would accomplish many of the same efficiencies uh in a way that would be uh more operable for um for va um that would uh um eliminate strict adherence to docket order as the rule of uh governing our issuance of decisions. Um, and that would enable us, for example, if a veteran's law judge during a hearing were to identify a claim as one that could be easily decided, um, quickly decided, they would be able to write up that decision following the hearing, um, quickly, and issue it, uh, without regard to docket order. And there are several other scenarios where relief from the strict docket order requirement would enable us to gain efficiencies uh bearing in mind that under our proposal deciding the oldest cases first will always be the default rule

uh this uh my presumptive clarity act requires the va to publish information about conditions and cohorts it's considering for the purposes of establishing or removing toxic exposure related benefits it also requires the va to educate veterans on how to participate in the pack act which i have found is desperately necessary cause not enough veterans are aware of it do you agree that the va should provide transparent and proactive notification when it makes significant changes in presumptive benefits and notify more veterans about the pack act

thank you senator for the question we do agree that transparency is important and education and outreach is also important we do continue to get a higher than anticipated number of claims for pact act um but we currently have obligations to to provide that transparency under the pact act and vha even has a directive on this so we

why isn't it happening

we do we publish through the federal register and we hold listening sessions that we inform veterans about so that we can actually hear from them as part of the study

well with all due respect i don't know too many veterans who read the federal register on a regular basis can't can't more be done

It's a valid point. And so, besides the Federal Register, we also use our newsletter and our ability to get to all veterans, even those unaffiliated with VA, through this information. And that's how we tell them about the listening sessions and how to reach us.

Well, I think there's a need to do more, and my time has expired. Maybe I'll follow.

Senator Kramer.

Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, thank you, thank you, member, and all of you for being here. uh i wanna dig in a little bit on um on a piece of legislation here that number of us a number of co-sponsored with me including senator king senator boseman senator sullivan senator slotkins senator hasson um the veterans outdoor rehabilitation act um it authorizes ten million dollars annually for grant program for state departments and and whoever they contract with um maybe federal government uh, entities may be most likely state entities, state parks, um, game and fish departments, um, private outfitters anyway, provides a grant program, as, as I think you're aware. I was a little bit, um, surprised when, although it's the second time it's happened, where I see, um, the VA opposing legislation, uh, after I read the testimony, at, at preparing for a hearing. That's a little disheartening to me. But I'd, I'd just like to get some clarity, cuz I read some of the testimony, some of the, the opposition the reasons for the opposition and one of them that i really have to i have to um address right away um cause i think it might be a misunderstanding um first of all this is not a mandate um on on federal land management so i know there there was a reference well we're not the right agency it should be the department of interior except that the department of interior is not the only land management agency in the federal government and in fact most of the good hunting in north dakota is on usda land forest service grasslands and things like that um in fact lot of it might not even be on federal lands likely wouldn't be actually uh might be on private farms um but you also raised this assertion that the va lacks the authority to do this which is why we pass laws it's why we pass laws to give you authority to do it so maybe help me understand your opposition and and and i might also ask in in your answer if you could tell me um did the secretary suggest you oppose this as an agency or did colonel lauder or where where who wrote the testimony and who was given the direction who gave the direction

uh senator i i appreciate your question um i am unaware of exactly who uh

mmm

uh yeah gave the um the viewpoint here

mmm

um what i can say is that uh it's my understanding that the va is working with your staff to uh to make sure that the that we understand the language appropriately um and that we get to some uh kind of uh agreement here i i fully the va fully understands the uh that there is potential therapeutic value in outdoor rec activities um what we wanna be sure is that we're able to uh measure that therapeutic value um and that there are appropriate boundaries that are put in place for uh such activities

uh do you not trust the state veterans organizations or or state um vso's to maybe come up with criteria suitable for their state or their stakeholders

and it's not that we don't trust the uh veterans organizations do that we

i mean

would like to work with uh state veterans organizations uh to make sure that all the needs of the veterans are met and that that we are able to measure uh improved outcomes

so uh uh i hear you i i'm i'm reading the your testimony in opposition and i have to be honest first of all it sort of it it rather quickly ignores the fact that this is for veterans just read you some of it fundamentally we do not believe the va should be the lead agency for states to support outdoor recreation. For veterans. Not for millionaires, not for Ducks Unlimited donors, not for wealthy visitors from Minneapolis. Veterans. And pretty much every veteran organization, uh including um s- state organizations, support the bill. So I'm gonna stress that point. The other thing is, I have to say as I read this, it reads m- it reads like a bureaucrat that doesn't want to do any more work wrote it probably worked harder at writing it than

right

then the work that would be required to carry it out

so so we would be happy to work with you and your staff to get the verbiage uh so that um it's amenable to you and to the va i our goal is to uh support veterans and to improve their outcomes

yeah no i i appreciate that um But my, my, my view is pretty well written in the bill, to be honest. Um, it, and the language seems quite clear to me, and if we do pass this into law and it's signed by the President of the United States, I would expect that you would carry it out as written, but we'll be happy to listen and work with you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Yes, sir.

Thank you, Senator Cramer. Um, Senator Duckworth.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chairman, I'm pleased that my bill, the Maternal Health for Veterans Act, is being discussed at this hearing. As you know, the Duckworth Collins Protecting Moms Who Served Act was signed into law in twenty twenty one. That bill codified and funded maternity care coordination programs at the VA, with the aim of ensuring that every veteran in need of perinatal care, receives world class care and support. However, the population of women veterans continues to grow, and it grows faster than any other demographic of veterans. And pregnant veterans, especially veterans living in rural areas, and veterans with disabilities, and African-American veterans face unique challenges. They are also often at higher risk of maternal morbidity and mortality compared with non-veterans. The need for sustained investments in a continued oversight of VA's maternity care program is more urgent than ever, and that is why I plan to introduce and why we must pass the Maternal Health for Veterans Act. Doctor Koeniger, in twenty twenty four the GAO um published a report required by the protecting moms who served act that reviewed maternal health outcomes among veterans as well as v a maternity care services and in this report um the gao found that the severe maternal morbidity rate for veterans almost doubled between twenty eleven and twenty twenty with the rate being highest among african american veterans the gao recommended v a monitor two things one trends in severe maternal morbidity by veteran characteristics such as race and ethnicity And two, that VA monitor, maternity care coordinator screening of veterans for mental health conditions. Doctor Koeniger, um, the GAO reported that the VA agrees with the report's recommendations. How does VA plan to address these recommendations?

Senator Duckworth, thank you very much for that question. This is a very important topic that we absolutely take serious. Um, so the, we, the VA has addressed recommendation number one which was implemented in march of twenty twenty four the office of women's health uh began quarterly uh severe maternal uh morbidity reporting and it was disaggregated by race ethnicity age morality and and even uh severe maternal mortality type um and they do annual review so that's recommendation number one um, reconna- recommendation number two was actually submitted to the GAO yesterday, and we hope to get feedback from, uh, the GAO soon. But the VA has already deployed a, uh, maternal care coordinator, uh, mental health screening dashboard. Um, that was deployed last month, and it tracks required screening, the results of the screening, uh, facility performance against goals, uh and it also uh facil- facilitates that uh facilities need to submit uh quarterly reports and that low-performing facilities will actually have to submit action plans so that we can uh see improvement. So again, we take both of those recommendations seriously and working to continue to uh roll those out.

Thank you. And and as someone who um received VA health care during both my pregnancies, which were termed geriatrics, pregnancies and I shudder at that term still. Um, I appreciate the work that the VA does and I I certainly uh uh uh understand firsthand the effort that the VA staff puts into it. Based on your answer, um, I would would you agree that we should continue to support maternity care coordination at VA?

Um, ma'am, we will we will do our best to support uh any care that uh veterans need. Um, uh, that also will depend upon um, having the appropriate specialties, uh, at the appropriate places.

Will you continue to work with me on the Maternal Health for Veterans Act, to make the technical edits necessary to obtain VA support, and to help me get this critical bipartisan legislation across the finish line this year?

Ma'am, the VA will work with you in your office, uh, to to help on this.

Thank you. I yield back, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you. Senator Blackburn.

Thank you, uh, Mr. Chairman, and thank you to each of you, for being here. Um, I think one of the things that my team and I hear the most about from veterans is healthcare access and I did a telephone town hall Tuesday night with thousands of Tennesseans and we had questions about that access and what veterans are wanting to see is a simplifying of community care. and the ability to go in their communities and get the care that they need. And veterans will tell us that one of the most difficult things they have to deal with, with the VA, when it comes to their benefits is health care and also understanding everything that they are entitled to. And having to pull all of this together themselves. So, I've introduced the Veterans Bill of Rights Act and it would not change eligibility, it would not add any new benefits, but it is meant to make sure that every veteran has a clear, consistent information portal where they know what they are in title two and that they have protections that are there for them as they navigate care and benefits. And there was a Rasmussen poll that had this on it, um, and our Veterans Bill of Rights had a ninety-four percent support among the military population. Miss Devlin, let me ask you. You've wor- raised concerns about implementation. on this, but I think we agree that veterans should have a much more clear understanding of their benefits and that it should not be so difficult to access the benefits that they have learned. So are there specific provisions in the bill that would make you happy if we clarified these uh so that our veterans were able to have uh to attain this goal of knowing what they are entitled to.

Senator, thank you for the question. Yes, there are specific provisions in the bill that we have concerns with. I'll start with the, probably the most meaningful one. The bill requires VA to administer a training module on the um on the Bill of Rights in the Transition Assistance Program. The VA only has access to service members for one day. during the transition assistance week. And in that one day we get them for about six hours. And in that six hours we have to teach them about their health care benefits, their be- their disability benefits, voc rehab, all the different things VA has to offer.

Well,

And -

it seems that a Bill of Rights that would simplify and aggregate this information might be helpful to that. Would you not think?

I think that what we would recommend is to put it into

Yeah.

the participant guide and refer to it because if we took the amount of time it would take to cover the material that's in the bill, it would take away from teaching them about health care and about disability benefits and about vrne and education and all the things that they all

can you not online some of this information

yes and that's essentially what we would recommend is that we be able to refer to it, and and direct them to it, but not teach an entire module and the other piece that we would want to work with your office on is making sure there isn't actually um a conflict between some of the information in the bill of rights language as compared to other language that's statutorily required for specific benefits programs and health care. So we can work to de-conflict some of that as well.

OK. Um, do either of you have anything you wanna add to that? Doctor Conacher?

No, ma'am.

No.

No, nothing else to add.

OK. All right. I know that Senator Hassoen mentioned our women's veteran specialty care. Access Act and we are doing uh a lot of work on this and I really have enjoyed working with her on this legislation and we've handled this in a bipartisan way. Uh, women's access to care and especially specialty care has been so limited, so we are pleased with this. Uh, Miss Devlin, back to you again, and I'm running out of town. What operational safeguards would VA need in place to ensure more direct access can work.

Ma'am, I'll go ahead and take that.

Good.

The um access to care, uh especially for women veterans is again a top priority. Um uh you may uh realize that back in December the VA actually rolled out a program where women uh veterans can uh directly uh contact um uh gyn specialty services um and that program continues to expand um i've been you know following the numbers and every month it continues to grow

thank you senator blackburn

well one of the themes here is uh notifying veterans of the potential benefits and i just happened to have a bill Uh, Senator uh, Senator Banks and I have a bill that i- is very simple. It would require that a poster be posted in employers' place of business that are have more than fifty employees, simply saying, veterans, here are the potential benefits, here's the number you should call. Here's what's going on in your state, here and and in other words, the informa- the kind of information that we're talking about with with uh Senator Blackburn, Senator Blumenthal, Uh, so, the, the official position of the VA is deferring to the Department of Labor. But, to me this is, this, this is a pretty easy one and, uh, I don't think there's much in the way of cost involved, it's just th- one of the themes of this hearing so far is veterans who don't know what their benefits are what their what the programs are that are available so Miss Devlin, can you can you uh nudge the Department of Labor or the Veterans Administration and just say this is a good idea let's do it.

Senator, thank you for the question. Uh, we do note that it is addressed, the bill is addressed to the secretary of labor. However, VA does have a role in uh, should this be enacted, in administering it. I will say that um, coordinating across every single state, which has a a wide array of differences in the benefits that they administer, will require quite a bit of work. The bill requires to update the information twice annually. Um, that does actually mean FTE's support full-time equivalent employees who will need to be gathering all that information across

each time i counted there were over fifty states have you heard of ai this could be done in a weekend and you've got fifty state veterans affairs you could delegate this the design of the poster to the veterans uh the the state veterans office which every state has i'm sure they'd be delighted to do it come on

the development of artificial intelligence technology would require funding

no no no no i'm not i'm talking about developing the poster

oh the poster itself yes The poster itself would not be the significant cost.

Well.

The significant cost is coordinating across all the organizations mentioned in the bill to get the accurate information that would be on the poster.

It seems to me that's would be something the State Veterans Office could do, uh fairly fairly straight forward and I'm sure they'd be delighted to do it. Um, okay. Uh, the second question is, um, a bill that the Chairman mentioned that he and I are sponsoring. I call it the show us your plan bill. Basically it says if the VA's gonna reorganize itself, do layoffs, and uh uh do a significant changes, we would like a five year human capital plan, just to tell us what the plan is, and to notify congress, which after all is the, we're the outfit that pays the bills, uh of uh significant changes, uh riff plans, uh and changes in the structure of the agency. Uh that's all we're asking is a, is simply to uh let us know what you're what you're doing and i don't think that's an unreasonable request although i note that the the department says we do not support the bill as drafted tell us how you want it drafted as long as it has the basic purpose which is show us the plan

thank you senator for the question our human resources experts are not here in in this uh hearing today but we're

i realize that you're probably not the right person

welcome to take it back

please do uh because the the the chairman and i think this is

yes

this is important it's important to not all notify us and also notify the veteran community of what's going on in the VA uh so that they're not surprised by uh changes that take place without without any notice and i think it would be helpful to the agency to develop a five year human capital plan uh which would uh stabilize and give people predictability in terms of the organization of the of the of the body finally uh uh doctor koniger uh r hospital togas in maine the oldest veterans hospital in the country by the way uh we've had gone from five hundred vacant positions to a hundred and sixty eight recently told to cut that to another seventy one that would get us down to a vacancy rate of five percent or below which is pretty tight when you're trying to think about rehiring and having to move slots around uh can you uh comment on on uh the what the the the the norm in industry is about ten percent vacancy rate So, uh, give us some thoughts. We just don't want, we don't want our hiring process to be locked up trying to find the right billet.

Uh, Senator, I appreciate the question. Um, I don't have any specifics, um, uh, about your facility, um, but I can certainly take that back to the secretary and we can, uh, get with your office and look at specifics.

I'd, I'd appreciate it if, if you would. I just don't want uh, this very important hospital, the only one in our state, constrained in their ability to meet the veterans' needs who come to them for service.

Understand that, sir.

Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I think I need to repeat.

Uh, thanks for being here today. Uh, Miss Devlin, um, the apprenticeship uh, bill and the apprenticeship program, obviously the GI Bill was originally envisaged uh, after World War Two and primarily focused on undergraduate education, but I think uh, As we all know, there's been a realization across America in the past several years that, uh, bachelor's degree and higher education aren't necessarily for everybody. And oftentimes we have veterans who, uh, may be coming home from war or sometimes just active service. And many of them would be better served with trades or OJT or training and skill sets. Uh, for instance, like getting a pilot's license where they can, uh, use some of the military background for immediate employment, uh, or or trades-based employment. So, um, there's been still quite a bit of a gap, though, of the veterans who are taking advantage of those programs. and those who either don't aren't aware they exist or still only pursuing the traditional GI Bill route. Um, what can we do as Congress and what can you do as the VA to make sure that we are ensuring that we're getting maximum participation in that program and that for the veterans who may be um, better suited to that program or directing that way vice to undergrad education.

Thank you very much for that question. We very much appreciate the need to have a workforce in our country and that veterans are really well suited to take on some of those high demand occupations. One of the things we are working on with the Department of Labor is making sure we educate veterans about the quality of those careers, the wages they can in almost instantly start earning, um in and including the um ancillary benefits of the GI Bill benefits and also VRNE benefits. But making sure that they understand that - that we need them in these jobs and the quality of those jobs. I will say there's a couple of things that that we mentioned in testimony about the bill. that we would appreciate some consideration too. One is that, um, well, first of all, veterans are eight, eight percent of apprentices are veterans, whereas only three point seven percent are in, undergrad students. So, we are representing veterans in that, in those occupations. But I will say the, the reduction on entitlement, um, currently it's prorated because when you start a job as an apprentice, say you're earning eighteen dollars an hour, the VA pays through the GI Bill the difference, between that and your journeyman wage so you start earning a journeyman wage on day one the reason the gi bill payments go down is because your wages go up um and typically wages will go about seventy seven percent up over the course of of that veteran's career um the so the reduction in entitlement since it's currently prorated they're gonna use more of their entitlement we don't know if veterans are not using gi bill because they wanna preserve their entitlement so that they can still maybe go to college later or because they've transferred it to a dependent like a spouse or children and maybe they want it used in that manner. Um, but the other pieces of the bill, it doesn't address VRNE, so Veterans with Service Connected Disabilities, if this were to be enacted in law would not apply to them, it would only apply to GI Bill students. Um, and we would need time to implement the technology associated with these changes, so we would ask for um a period of time to to implement. And one more thing I just wanna mention, the sector twenty-three jobs, um regardless of how many hours the veteran pursues,