Twenty-Five Years After 9/11: The Evolving Terrorism Landscape and State's Counterterrorism Response

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The subcommittee on the Middle East and North Africa will come to order. The purpose of this hearing is to examine the evolution of global terrorism in the landscape and assess the Department of State's role in leading and coordinating US counterterrorism efforts abroad. I now recognize myself for an opening statement. Good morning everyone and thank you to our witness, Mister Joel Borkert. from the State Department's Bureau of Counterterrorism for appearing before us today. Last week, we marked twenty-five years since the September eleventh terrorist attacks. Today, we convened this subcommittee hearing to examine how the geopolitical landscape has evolved since nine eleven and how the state's counterterrorism response has evolved with it to all of my colleagues on the committee and everyone watching at home I just want to remind you that we New Yorkers Don't just think about nine eleven on the anniversary every year. We have spent the last twenty-five years mourning loved ones, our neighbors, fighting for better health care for survivors and first responders, and funding the USVSST fund and memorials to the fallen, all in pursuit of supporting every individual impacted by these attacks. While New York feels the scars every day, the terrorists that committed these attacks, including their proxies, represent a global threat. Our State Department is now charged with confronting these threats abroad before they ever reach our shores again. The Bureau of Counterterrorism is the Department's backbone for that mission. CT leads US diplomatic engagement on counterterrorism, administers related sanctions, and builds partner nations' capacity to detect and disrupt threats. Twenty-five years after nine eleven, that threat looks nothing like it did in two thousand and won. Al-Qaeda's core is degraded, but its affiliates have spread across the Sahel and South Asia. ISIS has lost its territory but still radicalizes and recruits online. Iran and its proxies remain active across the Middle East. Terrorist groups increasingly exploit the internet and emerging technology to spread pop- propaganda and inspire lone actors. And this administration has now added transnational criminal organizations to the list of terrorist threats. This hearing gives us the opportunity to hear directly from the Bureau about the work it has done to meet the shift head-on. It will allow the committee to understand how CT is running programs as a coordinated system, targeting same-priority partners against a shared threat assessment and to learn more about the real results that approach has delivered. Effective counterterrorism policy is built on a strong partnership between Congress and the State Department, grounded in transparency and shared strategic vision. As we learn more about CT's coordination with allies and partners and look for opportunities to sharpen its efficiency and impact, this subcommittee remains a committed partner in ensuring the Bureau has the authorities structure and guidance it needs to meet the threats of today. Mr. Borkert, we look forward to your testimony and to a serious discussion of how we honor those we lost on September eleventh, twenty-five years ago, by getting this mission right for the many years to come. With that, I now recognize the ranking member of the committee, Representative Moskowitz, for five minutes for his opening statement.

Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh. Thank Chairman Lawler for convening this hearing this morning, and thank you, the witness, Deputy Coordinator, uh, for coming, uh, to testify, uh, this morning. As the Chairman mentioned last week, marked the solemn twenty-five year anniversary of nine eleven, the worst and most deadly terrorist attack on the US mainland soil. Like many in this room, I remember that day, I was actually a student at George Washington University, where I watched smoke rise from the Pentagon from my apartment. Uh, we must never forget the lives we lost or the selfless bravery of law enforcement and first responders that sacrificed their lives to save their fellow Americans and defend this great nation. On that point, I want to thank my colleague, Chairman Lawler, for spearheading his bipartisan legislation, the American Victims of Terrorism Compensation Act. We must pass this bill to ensure victims are justly compensated. I also want to recognize the military intelligence diplomatic and law enforcement personnel, who across the US government, day in and day out, worked tirelessly to protect our country and apply the lessons of nine eleven, and have kept us safe since those days. When we attack federal workers, we attack the very people who are keeping Americans safe every day since nine eleven. Today's hearing comes at a critical time. Twenty-five years since nine eleven, the threat of terrorism persists. though it has changed significantly. The rise of technologies allowed terrorist groups to expand their reach and recruitment, approached by spreading their heinous views across social media, and made fundraising easier via the use of digital currencies, which often circumvent existing sanctions. With all these developments, one would hope the administration would take the opportunity to ensure their strategies, tools, and resourcing are up to the task. That the work of the Counterterrorism Bureau at the State Department is nonpartisan, clear-eyed, and comprehensive in its role, and as coordinator among allies and partners. Unfortunately, there are a number of deeply concerning moves that threaten to undermine that work. In July of twenty twenty five, Secretary Rubio eliminated the office of countering violent extremism at the State Department, which focused on combating political violence in all its forms, including anti-semitic attacks, which are clearly on the rise. In May, the White House released its counterterrorism strategy for twenty twenty six, which makes no mention of the threat stemming from neo-Nazis, or other far far right wing groups and provides no details of comprehensive approach or detailed steps the US government is taking to address the threat of ISIS, sleeper cells in Syria, or the hundreds of ISIS-val- high value detainees that escaped from detention centers earlier this year. Furthermore, the CT bureau has still not provided Congress a detailed breakdown of where its current recently reallocated resources are going and what percent of those resources are going to address Jihadist or Islamist terrorism. Additionally in your testimony, you stated that strong partners are force multipliers for American security, and obviously this is true. After nine eleven, it was our allies who stood alongside us in Iraq and Afghanistan. Um, they shared intelligence and coordinated with us on the ground. Yet today we are isolating our partners. America is a powerful country with a capable military and and intelligence community. But as the veterans of the CT Bureau would surely tell you, this is not enough to keep Americans safe. We need allies to work with us and trust us. And that trust and goodwill has been diminished. The work before us is deeply important, has real life consequences, and that's why I'm concerned that we're not fully focused on addressing real, documented terrorist threats we face every day. If the administration truly believes right-wing terrorism has been completely elim eliminated it should present the data and concrete intelligence to the committee. Uh, the American people deserve a counter-terrorism approach based on data, concrete intelligence, and the threats as they are. not an extended political stunt. I urge the administration to work with Congress, provide us the answers we need, and resubmit a counterterrorism strategy that is worth the paper it's written on. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I yield back. Thank you.

Thank you to the ranking member. Other members of the committee are reminded that opening statements may be submitted for the record. We are pleased to have the Deputy Coordinator for Programs in Military Coordination for the Bureau of Counterterrorism at the U S Department of State. Retired Lieutenant Colonel Joel Borkert before us today. Your full statements will be made part of the record and I'll ask you to keep your spoken remarks to five minutes in order to allow time for member questions. I now recognize Mister Borkert for an opening statement.

Chairman Lawler, Ranking Member Moskowitz, and members of the subcommittee, thank you for the opportunity to appear today. Twenty-five years ago this week, I was a senior in college. September eleventh changed me forever. Within months I commissioned as an infantry officer, and that morning set the course for the next twenty years of my life. That is true for a whole generation of Americans we deployed. Most came home, but some did not. Twenty-five years later, I measure our work against what it cost to get here. We got a number of things right. We assembled a global coalition. We took away the sanctuary Al-Qaeda used to plan those attacks. And we destroyed the ISIS caliphate and killed al-Baghdadi al-Zahari and bin Laden. And we built a counterterrorism architecture designed to stop attacks before they happen. By God's grace, our nation has not suffered another attack on the scale of September eleventh. But we also got some things wrong. We sometimes measured effort instead of effect. We stood up partner forces we could not sustain. And we treated counterterrorism as a permanent condition rather than a means of solving a specific problem. And we suffered from mission creep. Today we face a fundamentally different terrorist landscape than we did twenty-five years ago. Although significantly degraded, the Islamic terrorist threat persists, fueled by Iran's proxies and jihadist groups exploiting weak borders and fragile states. Meanwhile, narco-terrorists have devastated American communities, contributing to hundreds and thousands of deaths, and far-left terrorism has reemerged to target the institutions, the ideals, and the principles of our constitutional republic. Terrorists have adapted, exploiting AI, drones, digital assets, chat rooms, and the dark web to radicalize, recruit, finance, and inspire across borders. Today, small cells or even individuals can achieve effects that once required large organizations, extensive resources, and physical sanctuary. The lessons of the last twenty-five years are clear, and so are many of the threats that we face today. And the President's national security strategy and his counterterrorism strategy reflect that reality. Protect the American homeland first, identify threats before they happen, act with precision over permanence, and expect capable partners to carry their fair share of the burden. And I am proud of the critical role the Department of State plays in advancing the President's counterterrorism priorities. First, we put the strategy into action by focusing on the homeland and working outward. confronting the threats closest to the home. We have secured our border, and under President Trump and Secretary Rubio's leadership, we have designated twenty-one cartels as foreign terrorist organizations or specially designated global terrorists. Those designations bring the full weight of our counterterrorism architecture to bear, disrupting financing and logistics while equipping capable partners to dismantle these organizations before their violence reaches American communities. Second, We focus on high payoff efforts that stop terrorists before they reach our border. By sharing terrorist screening and traveler information and strengthening aviation board and border security, we push our defense outward. A single watchless hit at a foreign airport can stop a terrorist before they even board a plane, at a fraction of a cost of deploying military forces. Third, strong partners are force multipliers for American security, and we are mobilizing them to shoulder their share of the fight. Together, we are applying sustained financial pressure and diplomacy to deny the IRGC and its proxies the resources that sustain their terrorist networks. We are also leading efforts with partners to combat far-left terrorism, strengthening detection and information sharing so today's violence does not grow into a threat that jeopardizes our fundamental values and freedoms. Finally, the reorganization has improved coordination It's eliminated redundancy and demanded results, ensuring every program, dollar, and partnership makes America safer, stronger, and more prosperous. And that brings me back to where I started. I'm often asked what we learned from nine eleven. Two of the hijackers were known to this government, but not on a watch list. Today our watch list system is greatly improved and

Mm-hmm.

designed to make that kind of failure far less likely. I have devoted the past twenty-five years of my life to helping ensure this country would never suffer an attack like that again. This summer, my son will commission as an army officer. He was not alive on September eleventh, but he inevitably inherits this mission. My obligation, and I would respectfully submit our obligation, is to hand him a country that does not have to learn this lesson twice. Thank you. I look forward to your questions.

Thank you, Mr. Borkert. I now recognize myself for five minutes of questions. Twenty five years after nine eleven, how has the Bureau's core mission changed, and how are you ensuring that an attack like that never happens again?

Yes, uh, thank you for that question, uh, Mr. Chairman. Um, so, the Trump administration is applying the lessons learned from the past twenty five by keeping what works and correcting what's not. Uh, we are leveraging the CT architecture to defend the homeland first. Uh, our primary responsibility is to prevent attacks on the homeland, and that is this administration's number one counterterrorism objectives. Uh, we are also looking to find threats before they reach us and use precision over permanence. That means we're moving away from expensive and unfocused capacity building efforts. And investing on what actually stops attacks, sh- the which are things like strong border s- uh screening, modern watch listing, real-time information sharing, and strategic counterterrorism financing. And we are expecting our partners to carry their fair share. So we're shifting the responsibility to where it belongs, to our partners and allies, whose stability and sovereignty are directly at stake. Uh, so America will lead, uh, but we will no longer carry the fight of loan. And so that's, that's how we're, uh, addressing, uh, the, the lessons learned from September. eleventh and moving forward.

The State Department's reorganization moved the CT Bureau under the Under Secretary for Arms Control and International Security. What have the benefits been of this move and how has it improved counterterrorism coordination within the State Department?

Uh, thank you, Mister Chairman. It's a great question. Um, uh, it is actually, uh, the reorganization I think is, uh, into one, uh, the, what we call the T family, one undersecretariat. uh where we've moved all the security assistance bureaus under one family has been uh a tremendous uh um uh asset to ensuring that we're breaking down silos and that we're eliminating redundancies across all the security assistance programs in the inter-agency. I I routinely am able, and same with my team, to talk to the other uh uh s- uh security assistance bureaus like INL, especially now that we're doing a lot of stuff in the Western Hemisphere and ensuring that we're not being redundant and that we're being complimentary in our efforts as we uh uh conduct our security assistance. What this has done is it's led to faster coordination, I think clear accountability, and stronger inter-agency action. And so the US government is finally working like one team to fight against terrorism.

Given that ISIS remnants remain active in Syria, how important is Syria's commitment to uh the defeat ISIS coalition and its continued counterterrorism coordination with the US, to prevent an ISIS resurgence.

Uh, thank you, sir, uh, S- Syria's support is is tremendously important. The new government is working with us against ISIS, uh, and denying the space to groups such as Hezbollah. They have joined the de-ISIS coalition. Uh, we have a meeting in October that, uh, they will be joining to to, um, to try to get the international partners, uh, to support, uh, Syria more. Uh, our priority is to prevent the resurgence of ISIS and Al-Qaeda in Syria, uh, to protect our US interests, uh, to disrupt external operation, uh, plots, and help our partners support building serious CT, uh, capability. Uh, we're doing that, uh, so far the Syrian government has, uh, been, um, uh, working in that direction. There's still a lot of work to do. Uh, I mean, I think we all can acknowledge that, but what we've seen so far, uh, i is them, uh, willing and and we are uh here to help uh them and the international uh community support building their capability to actually do that.

In the final days of uh President Trump's first administration, uh State Department designated the Houthis as a terrorist organization. Yet the Biden administration swiftly removed that designation. Years later, we can see this was a poor decision that has only enabled this group. Why are FTO designations and other terrorist

Uh, thank you for the question, sir. Uh, designations are extremely important. They are a powerful tool that opens up the entire CT toolkit, such as enabling sanctions, immigration consequences, uh, material support, uh, jurisdiction, coordinated law enforcement, financial pressure, and security assistance. Uh, so designations uh really open up the entire CT architecture uh to go after these, uh, terrorist organizations.

Uh, what specific authorities or additional guidance from Congress would help the Bureau operate more effectively?

Sure th- um, uh, thank you for that, that question. Uh, I think the, the most significant thing is just, um, um, to be able to, uh, ensure that we h- have the necessary resources and authorities uh to ensure that the funding bills uh are uh passed and uh and uh and and provided to us so I think uh consistency uh when it comes to the the resourcing piece uh and uh I think right now we we have the authorities that we need.

Good. My time has expired, I now recognize the ranking member, Representative Moskowitz for five minutes.

Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman, I'm gonna yield to uh, Mr. Schneider to do his questions first if that's alright.

Oh, I won't.

And I recognize Mr. Schneider for five minutes.

Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and Mr. Buchert, before we start, let me just commend your your son. Uh, my son served five years as a a Naval officer. Uh, when you see your son commissioned, there is no greater feeling you will be two feet taller. Uh, and uh, my son was alive. He was in third grade, uh, on nine eleven and I think it, it, inspired him and it inspires me to make sure we keep our country safe. Uh, twenty-five years following that horrible attack, terrorist attack, uh, the terrorism landscape has, as you noted, changed dramatically. Al-Qaeda and ISIS remain threats, but terrorist organizations are more diffuse, more technologically capable, as you noted, and more able and willing to use new technologies such as drones and other emerging technologies to wreak havoc where they are, where we live and around the world. This week, the Aramback Houthis had made a, have made strategic pushes and territorial gains seizing much of the country's Red Sea coast, including the island of Mayim, the port of Mocha, and the Anish Islands. They are moving closer to the Bab al-Mandab Strait and have launched attacks against Saudi targets prompting Saudi and Yemeni government forces to conduct airstrikes against Houthi positions. The complex Terrorist landscape that threatens Americans at home and around the world, and challenges our interests globally, requires a comprehensive counterterrorism strategy that uses all the tools at our disposal. It must be grounded in facts, expertise and inter-agency cooperation, and it must encourage strong partnerships with our allies uh our allies. Our challenge, we have to take the threat seriously. We need the expertise to understand the threat and how we address it. We need the partnerships. with our allies around the world to fight it, fight it. And lastly, we need persistence and perseverance. That's why I'm concerned about the politicization of our counterterrorism efforts and the loss of expertise across the State Department. At a moment when the threat landscape is becoming more complicated, we've seen programs and capabilities across our counterterrorism infrastructure eliminated or significantly reduced. At the same time, our counterterrorism strategy appears to be placing particular effort emphasis on certain forms of political violence. We have to take every threat seriously. But our counterterrorism policy should be driven by an objective assessment of the threats we face, all the threats we face. Political violence is a is dangerous regardless of the ideology behind it, and Americans deserve a strategy that reflects the full threat landscape. The United States has spent twenty-five years building the capabilities and partnerships necessary to prevent another attack like nine eleven. We must maintain that capacity to work with partners overseas, disrupt terrorist financing, strengthen law enforcement and border security, counter recruitment and radicalization, and respond to emerging technologies that terrorists can exploit. These are not partisan tools. They are national security tools and they're required to keep America safe. That is the standard we should expect from our counterterrorism policy, today and forever. And you talk about in your remarks this distinction between precision and permanence. And I'll be honest, I don't really understand it. I agree with my colleague on the concerns about the designation of the Houthis as a terrorist organization. They are unquestionably and have always been a terrorist organization. They continue to make progress. We had a hearing in this very room a couple weeks ago, talking about the need to address the Houthi threat. My concern is that when you talk about permanence, Houthis aren't going away any day soon. How do you distinguish precision versus permanence? and talking about addressing the Houthi threat and others like it.

Uh, thank you, sir. Thank you for those kind words. Uh, I am looking forward to my son uh getting commissioned. Um, to answer your question, uh, when when we say precision over permanence, uh, what we're talking about is moving away from a a lot of the expensive unfocused capacity building efforts that we've done in the past. Um, I I don't think we have any intention right now of moving a l uh large amounts of forces. uh in into to Yemen uh to address the the Houthi fret threat. The Houthis are a threat. Um uh they are, you know, a terrorist proxy for uh the Iranian regime. And so that's why uh from the CT, Counterterrorism uh Bureau's perspective, we're gonna continue to uh go after them by ensuring that we have strong border screening modern watch listing real time information to

But but, Mister Bogart, I understand we have to have strong screening at the airports.

Yeah.

But the Houthis have increased their capacity to close down the Bab Al Manda. Iran has closed down the Straits of Hormuz. Terrorist threats are now much more than individual lone wolves, which we have to constantly be vigilant against. But if we don't have the permanent capacities, the partnerships with our allies to thwart efforts like the Houthis, Al-Qaeda is no longer, is not gone. They may be diminished, but they're still in Afghanistan and they've increased strength in Africa. and the Arabian Peninsula. How do we turn away from our allies in those partnerships at a time when the threats continue to grow?

When it, when it comes to, to the uh the Houthi threat and and really all the Iranian uh back uh proxy threats, uh you know we are attacking a system that sustains it with maximum pressure. So uh for example, when it comes to the burden sharing piece, we're leading uh a diplomatic campaign to urge governments to also designate the IRGC in their terrace. So far we've had two dozen gover- uh, over two dozen governments adopt designations and restrictions, which provides them the tools to be able to go after them.

And and I'm sorry to interrupt you, but we're just limited on time. I agree we need to do the, to designate the RGC. We've been leading the um effort here in Congress. But we also need to make sure that we are working with our allies to address the very real threats and the growing strength of terrorist organizations in Africa and the Arabian Peninsula across the Middle East and around the world, that are intent and committed to harming Americans, harming American interests, and attacking our homeland.

Yes, sir. And, and I completely agree, and uh the Counterterrorism Bureau is doing that. That's why we have been working with our partners and allies to help, uh, develop their capabilities to be able to go after these groups. Um, and that's why we've, we've encouraged them to designate them. In fact, our Deputy Coordinator is actually leading the countering transnational terrorism forum in Paraguay today. which is focused on countering Iranian proxies. So we are doing that. We are working with our partners. We are do working with our allies, uh, to ensure that, uh, they can go after these, uh, proxy groups like the Houthis,

I

just like the

just I I'm way over time.

Gentlemen's time has expired.

I appreciate the time I have.

I now recognize Representative Sherman for five minutes.

I'm concerned that, uh, we need to follow the money and that that will become far more difficult. If crypto actually becomes a currency, it literally means Cryptocurrency literally means hidden money. Uh, from Los Angeles, we've got the Olympics coming up. I'm concerned about drone attacks on stadiums. Uh, you can you jam the radio control of a radio controlled drone. But in Ukraine, on both sides we're seeing an increasing use, perhaps up to one third of fiber optics controlled drones that don't use radio control. Uh, do we have the technology to prevent uh malicious actors from uh, uh using drones to attack a stadium at the Olympics?

Uh, thank you for that question, sir. Uh, for domestic matters I would defer to DHS uh on on what capabilities that they have. I will say that we have multiple agencies and other bureaus uh that are looking at emerging technologies such as uh uh drones, uh uh AI, uh other platforms.

Uh.

The CT bureau collaborates and coordinates with them on countering these emerging threats.

Yeah, I I I I I I thank you. I'm working with those agencies,

OK.

trying to get them to look at some of the technology that's come, that uh um uh has been developed, but uh certainly concerned about that kind of attack. Um a democracy makes good decisions when Congress is consulted and when the american people are involved unfortunately um the iran war was not a good decision and mr. chairman i would hope that this subcommittee would have hearings into the iran war uh we have not eh we uh also uh have not had hearings on the saudi one two three agreement eh we the republicans on this committee were formally informed in december uh that an agreement that did not meet the gold standard uh was in negotiation uh that uh was shared with democrats in february we have had long time to uh uh to put together hearings on that very dangerous agreement um the vast majority of the nine eleven hijackers were citizens of saudi arabia uh i remember when the most powerful monarch in the middle east was a good friend of the united But every weapon system that the Shah got in the early seventies was in the hands of the Mullahs in the in and uh by the end of the nineteen seventies. Um uh Mister Borkit uh is there substantial support uh among the people of Saudi Arabia for the ideals of Al-Qaeda? Or were those Saudi hijackers somehow a a figment of the past?

I mean, I would have to defer to Saudi Arabia and NEA on the specifics on on where they

I I I

stand now. I will say this, that in addition to military cooperation,

I

basing, information sharing, and bilateral

I I'm sure we cooperate with the the Saudi government. The question is, it's not a democracy, who's gonna be running Saudi Arabia? We cooperated with the Shah Shah in nineteen seventy eight. Thank God we didn't cooperate on a nuclear cooperation agreement. Um. Uncontrolled ai with ai in control poses an existential threat. But before we get there, um, we have to work worry about ai being is used as a tool by humans who might be malevolent, malevolent actors. Um, we have seen uh the Houthis, we have seen other terrorist groups, use uh ai uh to improve their missiles uh to identify targets and uh perhaps to and to at least begin to work on biological weapons uh what is your bureau doing uh to either prevent the the use of ai by um uh by terrorist groups and terrorist nations or to respond to such uh such possible action

uh yes sir thank you for that question um There's multiple agents and agencies and bureaus that are working on this. You we have the Emerging Threats Bureau, which is part of uh uh which is in our our family, so we work very closely with them. Uh we collaborate and coordinate on countering emerging threats, such as AI. We have and will leverage the full CT architecture to counter this threat. As a person who's seen us effectively adapt to the evolving terrorist last landscape over the twenty-five uh uh over the past twenty-five years,

Thank you.

I'm confident we'll continue to do so.

And finally, I, disturbs me that there's nothing in your report, uh, the White House counterterrorism strategy makes zero mention of right-wing violence. Uh, what we saw in this capital on January sixth shows us that anti-semitic, uh, militant groups, white supremacist groups are indeed a terrorist threat. We saw that with Melissa Hortman. Uh, we also see extreme, a left-wing at uh uh uh t- inspired terrorism in this country. Uh, that is however dealt with the reports and I would hope that your organization would focus uh proportionately on both a right wing and left wing domestic uh terrorism and I yield back.

Gentlemen, this time has expired, I now recognize Representative Moskowitz for five minutes.

Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, first of all, thank you for your service to the country. There there is left-wing extremism in the country, right? You list it as one of the top three uh issues.

Uh, yes, sir, that's correct.

Right, there's left-wing, there's right-wing extremism, right? As well.

Uh, there likely is, uh, but

Likely?

there there's there has been right-wing ext-

There's likely right-wing extremism in the country?

there has been right-wing extremism, but there's been left-wing extremism,

No, no, I just I just wanna be clear,

and

your testimony and the report mentions left-wing extremism. I'm agreeing with you,

OK.

there is left-wing extremism. I, it, the report talks about Antifa. I'm agreeing with you about that. I'm not, I'm not saying you're wrong. But there's also right-wing extremism, right?

There are various forms.

Why are you struggling, why are you struggling to answer that?

I, uh, what I'll, well, I'll tell you, sir, is there are various forms of

Every American, I know, but here's the problem, every American knows the answer to the question is there's extremism on both sides. There's left-wing extremism and there's right-wing extremism. We can debate whether it's sixty forty, fifty five, forty five, we can debate that. But there is no debate amongst the American people that there is left-wing extremists and there are right-wing extremists. But you struggle to answer on the right-wing extremists. Melissa Hortman was killed by a right-wing extremist, not mentioned in your report. Charlie Kirk is mentioned. I'm glad it's mentioned. He was killed by a left-wing extremist. And so, let me ask this question. I'll give you another shot at it. I- is, are there right-wing extremists political violence by right right-wing in this country?

They're off

I can see the wheels turning in your head, trying to figure out how you don't get in trouble to try to answer that question.

N- that's that's not true. There are there are the CT

But why why isn't it just a yes?

the CT bureau

But why isn't it,

goes after terrorists regardless of ideology.

why isn't the answer representative of Moscow? But but why isn't the answer representative Moskowitz? Of course there's right-wing and left-wing extremists. Of course there's political violence on both sides. We all know this. So does the audience. Why don't you?

There are all forms. There's left and there is right.

Oh, it it's oh, it's now all forms. It's it's it's all people. Right? All lives matter. Is that what you're doing now?

Sarah, what what I'm what I'm trying to tell you is that there, yes, you are correct. There is left wing extremism and violence and there is right wing. And this administration, as the secretary has said in his July ministerial, uh, left wing extremism and and and terrorists has been a blind spot that we must rectify. And that's why this administration is taking it seriously.

Hold on, that's great. I don't disagree with anything you just said, but it seems the blind spot is that it's on the right wing for you. It took you three minutes to get to a yes, that there is right wing extremism. OK, I'll move on. I think I've made the point. With the problem with this report is that it's completely one-sided. Now listen, let's change subjects for a second. As part of our counterterrorism strategy, this is page eleven of the report, given the freedom of maritime navigation is crucial to the US economy, we will not allow strategic waterways such as the Strait of Hormuz or Red Sea, to be held hostage by a non-state or state actors. In Yemen, we're prepared to take decisive action again and our ships are endangered by the Houthis. Right? Obviously, that's the goal in the report. We're not living up to that because obviously we have problems in the Strait of Hormuz now, and we're getting problems in the Red Sea. You mentioned uh, we we talked a little bit about the Houthis and and the strategy. Reuters is reporting this morning that US officials met with the Houthis in Oman. You're aware of that? Over the weekend?

I am not aware of that.

OK, so Reuters is reporting that US officials met with the uh Houthis in Oman over the weekend and struck a deal with them. That um we struck a deal with the terrorist organization that they won't attack our ships uh and they won't attack Israel's ships, they'll only attack Saudi ships. Uh you're not aware uh if that meeting took place or we made that deal?

Sure, I'm not aware of any of that.

Sure, let's say,

You

for the sake of argument, the deal that that meeting did happen and that that is the deal. And that is why we're not going in and helping Saudi Arabia. That's why when we talked just last week that we're not doing enough, uh, to fight the Houthis, which we agree on a bipartisan basis we should be, uh, is would you be OK if we struck a deal, uh, with the Houthis?

This administration is committed to defending the homeland first and protecting uh American citizens. And that is what we're doing.

I know I heard, but I heard your strong argument about what we need to be doing against the Houthis. And now we find out that we're, we're meeting with them, striking a deal with them, uh the terrorist organization. So, you know, you gotta, you can't have it both ways, uh is what I'm saying. So, Mr. Chairman, I'm over my time, appreciate your indulgence. You wanna go a second round? It's up to you.

And we will uh now commence the second round of questioning.

You're really giving me a second bite of the apple with him? OK.

Uh, one little understood part of the counterterrorism picture is actually uh, the Philippines, uh, and where there is still a relatively minor yet important presence of ISIS affiliated terrorists. Can you please give us the latest update on how the Trump administration is eliminating this threat? in the Indo-Pacific.

Uh, yes, Mr. Chairman, thank you for that question. Uh, we continue to have a robust counterterrorism uh program with the Philippines. Uh, it's uh our largest in the East Asia Pacific region uh, I could give you the sp- I I'm not sure the exact specifics on on the total active amount of funding that we have there when it comes to counterterrorism. Uh, I know we have a total of forty-four million active uh in East Asia Pacific.

And there appears to have been real progress in addressing the CT mission in Indonesia, uh with no deaths in the last three years. Can you give us an update on the latest with respect to counterterrorism there?

Uh, uh, yes sir, again, Indonesia is is a a a huge success story. We've been doing a counterterrorism programming with them for over uh twenty years. Uh, our assistance has led to over thirteen hundred arrests of suspected terrorists, with a hundred percent conviction rates. Um, and uh, and the disbandment of uh, uh, an FTO along with, uh, those responsible for the deaths of US citizens.

Al Qaeda figures have found shelter in Taliban-controlled Afghanistan, uh, especially after that disastrous withdrawal in two thousand and twenty-one under the Biden administration. Uh, what is the Bureau's current assessment of Al Qaeda's operational presence and freedom of movement inside and outside of Afghanistan? And has that presence grown or diminished?

Uh, thank you for that question. Uh, we do not recognize the Taliban obviously as a government. They remain s- uh specially designated global terrorists. One of the reasons why is because uh they do offer a safe uh a safe haven for Al-Qaeda. I would defer to you to the intelligence community on on how much they they are able to operate within Afghanistan and whether there's been a growth in that. Uh, but they do continue to harbor those terrorists and and uh and uh And that's why we, um, you know, continue to press them to to not do that and to abide, uh, by, uh, the their, uh, agreement that they have with, uh, the international community.

Pakistan remains a critical if complicated partner in the fight against terrorism in South Asia. And given its long border with Afghanistan and its own history with militant groups, can you speak to how the bureau works with Pakistan on counterterrorism, and where that partnership has been? most effective and where concerns remain given their checkered past over these past twenty five years.

Yes, sir. Um, I would say when it comes to Pakistan, uh, our counterterrorism uh partnership with them is is one of our uh more uh uh is is is uh is is very it's strong. It's one of it's one of I think one of the the the bright spots within our relationship uh with the Pakistanis. Uh, we have uh active programming uh approximately we have approximately thirty million uh dollars in active programming across not only Pakistan, uh but also Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, but many much of that is with Pakistan. We do an annual CT dialogue with them every year. We just uh wrapped that up by uh a few weeks ago. Uh and and so a lot of our effort with the Pakistanis is to uh to help provide uh, uh them with the ability to protect their borders. Uh, we're also doing some uh, new programming with them to help facilitate some of uh, the the on the commercial side of the house. Um, and so I I think when it comes to uh, to Pakistan, uh, you know, this is this is an area that we uh, continue to um, a a partnership we continue to to mature.

What role is CT Bureau playing in addressing the terrorist threat in Nigeria, and how does the terrorist threat

Yeah, the protection of Christians in Nigeria is this administration's number one priority. Um, I've traveled out to Nigeria actually twice just this year. Uh, that's shows how serious we are about tackling this issue. We're using all elements of our national power to address this issue. Uh, CT tools like security assistance, diplomatic engagement, and ways to more effectively burden share, uh, to to stop the violence is is is what we're doing. Um, we have, uh, two robust programs right now in Nigeria. One helps support their, uh, forensics lab, and then another helps with, uh, the, uh, countering their terrorist financing.

And lastly, uh, when the department designated the first eight cartels in February of twenty twenty

Uh, yes, uh, thank you for that question. Uh, yes, uh, thank you for that question. Uh, we have uh Uh, we have uh Uh, when it comes to the narco-terrorists, um, you know, they use assassination, kidnapping, territorial control, and violence, uh, intended to coerce governments. So this administration, uh, rightfully, uh, designated them as a terrorist organization. Designations are a powerful tool. Uh, it's opened up the entire CT architecture. I think some of the, the big things that it's allowed us to do is not only go after individuals, uh, and, and corporations for material support. But it's also allowing us to do uh security assistance in order to be able to train uh these countries to uh address the threat within their country, and and prevent that violence from spilling over to the uh to America.

My time has expired. I now recognize Representative Moskowitz for five minutes.

Do you wanna go to one of your members first? We had three in a row.

If sh-

Yeah.

Uh, we will uh recognize Representative Kane for five minutes.

Thank you, uh, Mister Chairman. And thank you uh to our esteemed witness for being here today. Uh September eleventh, two thousand and one is a day that is etched into our memory, a day that will always mark unimaginable loss, a day that we will never forget. We remember and honor the victims and the families, as well as the brave men and women who answered the call on one of the darkest day in our nation's history. And now we must continue to tell that story with honesty, honor the people we lost, and stand with the families who still carry that loss. As Congress members' essential secretary, we also must remain steadfast in our commitment to preventing such evil from ever gaining hold again. With the increased use of AI for criminal enterprises, can you share how the Bureau of Counterterrorism is working to address the use of artificial intelligence? to counterterrorism.